[casual_games] Game Authoring Language

Fri Aug 12 03:46:43 EDT 2005

I think that people will be pleasantly surprised with what the next version of Flash is capable of.  It runs close to 3 times faster than previous versions, and has lots of great graphical improvments.  While in the past it loved to lag when more than a couple things were onscreen at the same time, it's a whole hell of a lot better.  I'm fairly confident that the new flash8 can handle near-popcap level 2d gaming on even lower end machines (but not the timewarp stuff in Bejewled2).

We've been pretty impressed with Torque2d too and have done about 3 internal demos using the engine.  My biggest concern tha that it's still much too early in the engine development to commit to getting a title out (and stable) within the next 4-6 monts tho.  And documentation is close to non-existent. 

If anyone is interested in Java gaming, I suggest looking at Proce55ing (http://www.processing.org/).  Although it's more of an eye-candy designer toy at the moment, it is super easy to develop in and supports basic openGl (ultra-basic I should say).  They have abstracted out much of the visual side of java programming without compromising the basic functionality and libraries. 

When we're working on new concepts for games, these are the three languages that we always seem to come back to.  Of the three, Flash is the most stable and mature, but when Torque2d is ready I think that that will be the best bet for rapid and cost-effective 2d game development.

for mobile games (and I'm assuming you are talking about Mobile Phones), the only thing that doesn't scare the living bejeeesus out of me is what macromedia is doing with Flash Lite.  any and all low-level coding for phones just seems like an impossible problem to solve for a small developer, and it just seems to get worse every day.  If macromedia (or I guess Adobe now) can get Flash Lite running smoothly across all the disparate phone platforms, development will be a couple of orders of magnitude easier (and more enticing).  Add the fact that flash is at it's heart a vector based illustration and animation tool, having to deal with ultra-small download sizes and an undending variety of screen resolutions could be much easier.  I decided that I would rather buy stock in Jamdat than sink a bunch of money into mobile phone gaming - and it's up at the moment so I'm cool with that.

James
Creative Director
WDDG/Inferno/Funtank
james at wddg.com

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Wade Tinney
Sent: Mon 8/8/2005 3:32 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Game Authoring Language

I'd like to add that there is also information relevant to this thread in the recent issue of the Casual Games Quarterly: 

http://www.igda.org/casual/quarterly/1_1/casual.php

	________________________________

		From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Nicolás Vinacur
	Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:20 PM
	To: wade at largeanimal.com; IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
	Subject: Re: [casual_games] Game Authoring Language

	    I personally think that for this kind of development, which language to choose is mostly a personal opinion, the one which one feels more confortable with. Both Java (or anyone else) and C++ could be fine to develop a casual game. Most games are historically programmed in C++ just because a simple problem: games are the kind of application that should get every single cycle from the CPU and use it as well as it can be. Now, games such as casual do not require great computers to run, which leads to the following problem: 

	        You could use JAVA, blitzbasic, or any higher development environment, though making your game need a little better computers. You will lose some potential customers which just don't have a computer fast enough to run your games, but you'll make your life easier, using java or some 3D library for example to enhance graphics, have particles, alpha blending, hardware rotation / scaling. 

	       On the other hand, if you have enough experience with any language you could use it as well as any other, but there are some little things that you are not able to handle in C++, such as looking easily inside of STL structures and such things, which I don't know JAVA, I suppose that it does this fine. But these little things will bother, a lot, while developing your game.

	        In my personal opinion, I prefer to leave out some features that don't make a GREAT difference, such as alpha blending graphics for ALL the images, mostly 2D graphics through the video card (3D). That's why I think that using SDL is the best option (also, wrapped through DirectX 5, should run in most customers computers). 

	    This would be for the difference between C++ vs any other languages. For JAVA in particular, I have some doubts to use it... Should the user download the JAVA environment so he can use the game? Because it is huge and most users would prefer just to try another easier game. Another thing to have in mind is, will the user need to download the latest drivers to be able to play the game? I think that we should aim to the most basic hardware, with no drivers update or framework needed, if possible.

	    Of course, I am saying this, supposing that the game is simple enough so that you shouldn't need anything else than the basic stuff to run the game. If the game gets bigger, or more complicated, or you want to make it 3D or something like that (I can't imagine a 2D game that should * NEED * nowadays hardware to run) then go for it, use the things you'll need. But try to avoid requirements if possible, just to get as most audience as possible (don't kill yourself to try to reach those 2% with 286, but if the difference is about 30% or something like that, you would like to think again about it). Perhaps some customers hardware's stats available would be something good to have to make a good decision on which tools to use.

	----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Wade Tinney <mailto:wade at largeanimal.com>  

		To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List' <mailto:casual_games at igda.org>  

		Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 3:14 PM

		Subject: RE: [casual_games] Game Authoring Language

		Hi Adeo-

		Are you evaluating technologies for online multiplayer, or downloadables, or both? 

		We probably won't use Java for downloadables (we are increasingly committed to Torque 2D and 3D), but *might* use it for online multiplayer, especially if there were better libraries available. Currently, we are using flash for online multiplayer clients. 

		Wade

		Wade Tinney
		partner, game designer
		Large Animal Games
		http://www.largeanimal.com <http://www.largeanimal.com/> 
		wade at largeanimal.com

			-----Original Message-----
			From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Adeo Ressi
			Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 1:04 PM
			To: casual_games at igda.org
			Subject: [casual_games] Game Authoring Language

			At Game Trust, we have been evaluating various casual game development technologies, including ActiveX, Director, and Java. It is our opinion that Java may be the best way to go, especially considering the cross-platform capabilities. Java also has a massive install base, great client/server capabilities, fast performance, and ways to optimize load times for online play.

			The downside to Java is a lack of strong development libraries for games, though Sun is actively working on this. Java has some problems with sound handling in the most recent JVM versions, which can be addressed in your code. Ultimately, different games suit themselves to different languages, which is why we try to support them all.

			Game Trust has a number of 2D and 3D Java development libraries that we have used internally for casual games. We have been thinking to make these libraries Open Source in conjunction with Sun. It would take us a couple months to polish them up. 

			I am wondering what people think about Java, and if anyone thinks that having a strong set of Open Source Java development libraries would help them?

			            Adeo / Game Trust

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