[casual_games] Portals: Room for improvement?

[Andrew Dick]

Thankyou for sharing your rant, Wade. Now looking at
the price point perspective through a developer's
eyes, I can see how it could give a false view that a
particular game isn't "up to par" if it's a little
cheaper in price. I certainly do not want to present
that sort of idea to customers.

> P.S. I really like your idea about sharing more
> detailed stats with
> developers. In a market where most portals STILL
> don't offer real-time
> sales reporting to developers, this is a step in the
> right direction.

Great! I am really aiming to have developers want to
get the most they can out of using our portal. So help
me help you...what kind of stats would be the most
beneficial to you guys?

Thanks again for the great input I am getting!

Andy Dick

--- Wade Tinney <wade at largeanimal.com> wrote:

> 
> I really appreciate you asking for opinions on this,
> Andrew. 
> 
> Personally, I am not a fan of discounting unless it
> is done to squeeze
> some more life out of a title that has seen its
> heyday and is now
> languishing (and the channel rep has discussed the
> discounting with me).
> I hate the idea that a new channel would lower my
> product's pricepoint
> to gain market share, and would most likely pull my
> titles from a
> channel that did this. 
> 
> I'm worried about a price war between online
> channels who currently have
> little else besides price point to differentiate
> themselves with (not
> that there aren't other things they could do...they
> just aren't doing
> them, generally speaking). Even if this has no
> immediate impact on my
> per-unit revenue (because the discount is coming out
> of the channel's
> cut), it still has the potential to cause a chain
> reaction among other
> channels in the market and to impact customer
> perception of my title
> ("Oh, that game's in the bargain bin now"). 
> 
> Plus, I have to wonder; if the discount is coming
> out of the channel's
> revenue share, why don't instead they spend that
> money on marketing
> their site and bringing in new customers? Or on
> implementing *real* ways
> of differentiating their offering (such as better
> customer service, the
> dynamic retailing that we've talked about here, a
> kick-ass multiplayer
> platform, better treatment of developers, a vibrant
> user community,
> creative promotions, et cetera)? 
> 
> Of course, a caveat to all this is marketshare. If a
> channel is selling
> a high volume of games, than I'll want them to sell
> mine too, even if
> they are doing it at a discount. I'll likely wait
> and bring them my
> games AFTER I've taken them everywhere else, but I'm
> still going to
> distribute through them. 
> 
> Anyway, that's my rant. Looking forward to hearing
> others' thoughts. 
> 
> Wade
> 
> P.S. I really like your idea about sharing more
> detailed stats with
> developers. In a market where most portals STILL
> don't offer real-time
> sales reporting to developers, this is a step in the
> right direction. 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Dick
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 2:44 PM
> To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [casual_games] Portals: Room for
> improvement?
> 
> 
> Thankyou very much, Juan and Wade, for your
> thoughts.
> You both bring up great ideas that I will definitely
> think through while designing the site.
> 
> An idea I had, and I'm not sure this is a
> financially
> stable idea, is to offer a *small* discount on game
> prices directly to the consumer. This would of
> course
> come out of the portals pocket after paying
> developers
> their full amount first. Now is this sort of
> business
> practice looked down upon for some reason? I would
> follow this model simply to get the necessary
> traffic, attention, and
> foothold needed to grow in this industry.
> 
> I also want to get the developers any sort of
> valuable statistic
> information they could possibly need. I'm talking in
> terms of specific
> consumer buying tendencies...perhaps having them
> sign up with a (free)
> membership so that I can chart what games they
> bought, etc. For example:
> 
> After buying X game, 20% of customers later on
> bought
> Y game.
> 
> Or:
> 
> Customers viewing game X's specific info page
> (Intro,
> pics, Download button) 65% of the time continued to
> download.
> 
> Are statistics like this sought after? What other
> kind
> of stats would developers want to get their hands
> on?
> Do portals generally already offer this sort of
> thing?
> 
> Sorry for the numerous questions. I just want to be
> able to offer a unique service not only to consumers
> but also developers in the hopes it would generate a
> positive buzz towards the site.
> 
> Thanks again for your time,
> 
> Andy Dick
> 
> --- Juan Gril <juangril at jojugames.com> wrote:
> 
> >  
> > In my mind, I still use today a term that a good
> pal
> > in the industry (hi
> > David :) ) once taught me. It is called "download
> > velocity", and it's when
> > you can come up with a fairly good projection of
> how
> > much a game is going to
> > sell after a sample of a day worth downloads in a
> semi-prominent place
> 
> > in your channel. You calculate the conversion
> rate, and
> > then based on your
> > experience on how much a title can grow in your
> > channel over the next couple
> > of days (20%, 30%, etc.) you know more or less if
> > that title is going to
> > become a hit or not.
> > 
> > Example: Assume a hit in your web site is 10
> copies
> > a day, and when you put
> > a game in a prominent space you get ~500 downloads
> a
> > day. If after 24 hours,
> > the title sold 6 copies, then you know that title
> > can reach a very decent
> > amount of sales.
> > 
> > This is not the only parameter I would use to
> > evaluate a title though.
> > Because of game mechanics, some games need more
> > time, but since almost
> > everybody uses the same trial format we are giving
> > more or less the same
> > amount of entertainment in every game.
> > 
> > What I just said may generate a little bit
> > controversy, so I'd love to hear
> > what other people think.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Juan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> > [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
> > On Behalf Of Wade Tinney
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:56 PM
> > To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [casual_games] Portals: Room for
> > improvement?
> > 
> > 
> > I think the next level for portals will mean
> *some*
> > form of dynamic
> > retailing. Amazon is a good model for this, but it
> > could be something much
> > less sophisticated as well. i.e. Don't show
> someone
> > games that they already
> > have installed on their computer (but DO show them
> > tips or new content for
> > that game), make recommendations based on games
> > they've downloaded or
> > purchased (like Bejeweled? You'll lose your
> !@#$ing
> > mind over Bepearled!!),
> > et cetera. Obviously, there are all sorts of ways
> to
> > extend these simple
> > examples.
> > 
> > >From a developer's point of view, it would be
> great
> > if portals changed
> > the positioning (promotion) of games dynamically
> > with an eye to balancing
> > out downloads across all titles, at least within a
> > set period of time from
> > launch. We all know that placement has a huge
> impact
> > on download volume and
> > can help a new title establish momentum (or not,
> if
> > they get crappy
> > placement). Obviously, it would be unwise for
> > portals to promote
> > underperforming titles beyond a certain point, so
> > the idea here would be to
> > at least give equal opportunity to more than just
> a
> > few titles.
> > 
> > While we're on the topic, I'd love for some of the
> > folks on this list from
> > distribution channel to share their "Top Ten List"
> > algorithm with us.
> > Anyone?
> > Is based on download volume? Conversion rate?
> > Revenue? Something else?
> > 
> > 
> > -Wade
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> > [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Dick
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:00 PM
> > To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> > Subject: [casual_games] Portals: Room for
> > improvement?
> > 
> > 
> > First, I would like to say the amount of
> information
> > being shared on this
> > mailing list is astounding! I couldn't imagine NOT
> > being subscribed.
> > 
> > Now my question for the experts out there is on
> > Portals: Can you see any kind of improvement that
> > can be made in terms of
> > layout or function? All of the current famous
> sites
> > out there each seem to
> > have a slight variation in how they present their
> > "Top Ten"
> > lists and such, but one problem that they all seem
> > to share is the sort of
> > "Blackhole" syndrome where a worthy new title gets
> > quickly shoved to the
> > back regardless of its quality.
> > 
> > I've spent some time now trying to think of a work
> > around that would not
> > only appeal to the general casual game consumer,
> but
> > also to the developer
> > in that they'd be excited to see how their latest
> > product traveled through
> > the ranks over time (and not instantly into
> > oblivion). Yes I realize pretty
> > much any developer is willing to have their games
> > hosted on any portal which
> > has the possibility to make them sales. What I
> want
> > it to do though is have
> > a unique and innovative experience, for both
> > consumer and client, that has a
> > large chance to grow in this crowded industry. As
> > you can probably guess
> > it's a rather daunting task that will need a large
> > amount of time, work and
> > perhaps gobs of luck.
> > 
> > I am in the very early stages of designing the
> site
> > and want to discuss this
> > a bit before moving forward.
> > 
> > Thank you all very much for your time,
> > 
> > Andy Dick
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> >
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