[casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
BRENT SILBY
brent at def-logic.com
Wed Sep 28 22:56:33 EDT 2005
MessageHi Colin,
Its true, kids *do* spend a fortune on music etc. The problem with getting them to spend money on games is that there are soooo many sites offering free games. I work with teenagers (my day job as a teacher) and I can tell you that they will always search for free content first. If they can't find it for free, they will try to pirate it. Paying is a last resort.
So, how to get them to pay? I'm starting to think that casual games may be best used as attractors to sites, which then make money out of selling other products--mp3 players, clothings, etc at a good price. Still, I'd rather make money from the games themselves :)
Cheers,
Brent Silby
DEF-LOGIC
VIDEOGAMES
www.def-logic.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Cardwell
To: wade at largeanimal.com ; 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
Hi Wade
This is something we've thought about and it is a potential problem with MOG. We are about to introduce a new main category on the site for downloadable games which will help I think, and there is nothing to stop you putting download in as a keyword, however that's not much use if people who like downloadable games don't use the site.
I'm hoping that in time we'll see the demographics of the site broaden. I'm guessing that the current users are mostly those who 'get it', but as sites like del.isio.us and flickr.com and hopefully MOG become more mainstream and more of your everyday Joes 'get it' then I think the site will get a broad range of users including those who like downloading and buying games, especially if the site is a good source for those games.
Our challenge is in usability. Looking ahead when we've 50,000 games on there we need to find a way of making sure a user is as few clicks away from the games they want as possible and we've got a bit to go on that I think.
On a separate note, I think one of the challenges of the industry is to find ways of getting game sales from a younger demographic and I think this comes back to marketing, payment systems and an attractive offering for them. 'Kids' spend fortunes on music, console games, ring tones, and other stuff. We need to find ways of making them part with their cash for casual games.
Colin
Colin Cardwell - Director - 3RD sense Australia Pty Ltd
T. +61 (0) 2 9959 1008 M. +61 (0) 401 888 322
E. colin at 3rdsense.com W. www.3rdsense.com
www.playaholics.com - play games and win stuff
www.chickstop.com - for girls who like to play
www.millionsofgames.com - source, save and share your favourite online games
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From: Wade Tinney [mailto:wade at largeanimal.com]
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 1:13 AM
To: colin at 3rdsense.com; 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
MOG is a great idea and very well executed. Congratulations on getting it off the ground. I've got the little "Mog it!" button on my tool bar and have been using it.
I'm curious about the demographics of MOG users. I realize you are not explicitly gathering this information, but I'm wondering if you have any sense of it, nonetheless. My intuition leads me to guess that the people featured on the WildGames page I referenced ( http://www.wildgames.com/ECS/htdocs/contests.aspx?dp=wildgames&bw=high) are probably *not* likely MOG users, and that your users are probably significantly younger; more like a Miniclip audience. Correct me if I'm wrong (either Colin, or anyone else reading this), but I don't think this younger audience is purchasing downloadable casual games. They may be playing them, but I don't get the sense that they are paying for them (at least not in significant numbers). That audience seems like a perfect one to monetize via advertising, but not to sell the "classic" downloadable, single-player game to.
Taking this assumption further, it seems that while a site like MOG is a tremendous resource for gauging the success of one's web-based (read: ad rev generating) game offerings, and to see what is working in that market, it may not be such relevant data for try-and-buy downloadable games, because its just not the same audience. In other words, I can't assume that the games that are popular with MOGgers (online, download, or otherwise) are going to be popular with those people who are actually buying games. Also, if my site doesn't have a way of monetizing traffic outside of game sales (i.e. no advertising), then it doesn't help me to attract lots of traffic to my site (via MOG, Newgrounds, or whatever), since I'm only going to spend more money serving up games to people who will likely not buy them.
To tell the truth, I hope that I'm wrong about all this; I just wanted to throw it out there and see what people think. Hopefully someone has some data/insight which will disprove this theory.
Thanks!
Wade
Wade Tinney
partner, game designer
Large Animal Games
http://www.largeanimal.com
wade at largeanimal.com
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Colin Cardwell
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:54 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
As some of you know, we've launched MOG (www.millionsofgames.com) in the last couple of weeks. The very purpose of the site is to provide a community for casual game fans. Although at the moment Moggers (our members) can store their favourite games and rate them, they will soon be able to add comments/reviews of games. We also track game plays and who has Mogged a game. The data is time based so once we have sufficient volume of usage, we'll be releasing daily, weekly, monthly charts overall and in each game category, hoping to give everyone who is interested in casual games a very valuable source of useful data.
The growth of the site I think is interesting. It has been picked up by quite a lot of news sites, the home page of Slashdot helped a lot. What's key for us though is that almost 900 games have been added in only 3 weeks by our Moggers and if that rate continues, we'll pretty soon have the largest list of online and casual games around, which is our goal. Add to that reviews and the other data we're collecting and you can begin to see the potential of the site.
I'm not just trying to tell you how wonderful our site is by the way, I'm just trying to explain some of its potential, it certainly still has a long way to go. We very much want this to be a community site so we would be very interested in views/ideas/feedback/requests from this group in particular. If this site builds to the level we anticipate, it will be a great place to promote any new games you have (and old ones for that matter), get ideas for games, see who likes what, find out what doesn't work, etc etc.
I hope this was useful..
Colin
Colin Cardwell - Director - 3RD sense Australia Pty Ltd
T. +61 (0) 2 9959 1008 M. +61 (0) 401 888 322
E. colin at 3rdsense.com W. www.3rdsense.com
www.playaholics.com - play games and win stuff
www.chickstop.com - for girls who like to play
www.millionsofgames.com - source, save and share your favourite online games
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From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wade Tinney
Sent: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 12:30 AM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
Just to clarify, James. You are asking about groups/sites where casual games are discussed and/or reviewed by players, right (and NOT links to sites that simply distribute said games)?
It's a very good question. I've had a tough time finding such sites in the past. I'd love to hear what you uncover.
There is a lot of player-to-player interaction on Pogo, of course, but it happens in real-time during play.
Also, if you've never checked out the contest winners pages on WildGames, those are pretty interesting/entertaining as well. At the bottom of this page, you'll find a whole set of "view winners" links:
http://www.wildgames.com/ECS/htdocs/contests.aspx?dp=wildgames&bw=high
I realize it's not exactly what you're talking about, but if you're looking to better understand the casual audience, I think its pretty useful.
-Wade
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Jack Pearson
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 4:16 PM
To: Andy Makely; IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
www.tournamentgames.com online pay to play tournaments. All DirectX casual games online since since 1997.
236 million games played to date. 350,000 played each week
Jack Pearson, CEO
Tournament Games Inc,
www.TGPool.com
www.TournamentGames.com
jack at tournamentgames.com
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]On Behalf Of Andy Makely
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:39 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Casual games user groups (player side)
www.jayisgames.com is a great games blog that covers primarily web games, but also touches on downloadables sometimes.
--
andy
On 9/26/05, James Baker - WDDG/Inferno <james at wddg.com> wrote:
I'm trying to put together a database of user-groups and/or websites on
the user/player side that are dedicated to casual games. Anything from
forums dedicated to word games to yahoo groups to newsgroups to websites
would help me out.
Thanks!
James Baker
Principal
WDDG/Inferno/Funtank
212-219-9222
james at wddg.com
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