[casual_games] 3rd party engines/frameworks

Sun Apr 30 13:45:02 EDT 2006

I have used both frameworks and they are both very good. As stated, Torque 
2D needs more modern hardware to run. The Popcap Framework on the other hand 
can run on very old hardware but can take advantage of new hardware if 
present.

Torque is still in Beta but Popcap has been in full release (used in their 
production games) and has been thoroughly tested.

Popcap has some excellent built in abilities that many frameworks lack like 
unhandled exception filters, threaded asset loading etc. Of course, you get 
the source code with both (critical IMO) but the source in the Popcap 
framework was much easier for me to understand all the functionality.

Torque is cross platform. Popcap is not cross platform but I hear they are 
currently making Mac ports of their games. I haven't heard if they are 
planning on releasing it in their framework though.

I'm certainly not against Torque, I love it. It has some excellent abilities 
that are missing in Popcap depending on the kind of game your trying to 
write but based on your message these would be my concerns.

>From: "Dennis Harrington" <dennis at disposabledna.com>
>Reply-To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
>To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
>Subject: RE: [casual_games] 3rd party engines/frameworks
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:16:41 -0700
>
>Adam,
>
>That's a very good point. If you're trying to create a truly mass-market
>casual game that's playable on machines without any graphic acceleration
>then Torque 2D is probably not the best choice.
>
>Dennis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Adam Johnston [mailto:adam at bamtang.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:41 PM
>To: dennis at disposabledna.com; 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [casual_games] 3rd party engines/frameworks
>
>I guess that the main comment that I would add to yours is that Torque
>2D (Game Builder) does need some fairly good 3D cards with up to date
>drivers to run.
>If your market includes older home computers, laptops etc. then you
>might have trouble.  In these cases we stick with SDL, but otherwise
>we've enjoyed working with T2D.
>Good luck,
>Adam
>
>   _____
>
>De: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
>En nombre de dennis at disposabledna.com
>Enviado el: Viernes, 21 de Abril de 2006 06:25 p.m.
>Para: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
>Asunto: Re: [casual_games] 3rd party engines/frameworks
>Christian -
>
>As I've stated on this list before, I use the Torque 2D engine for game
>development and I'm extremely impressed with it. There are many very
>high quality engines out there so I'm sure there are others that are as
>good (or better) than Torque but it suits my needs and skill set
>perfectly and that's why I chose it.
>Regarding your questions as related to my experience with Torque:
>
>"Is the development process radically different?" It's very different in
>that you're using editors and visual tools in combination with code. In
>a way, it's similiar to working in Flash but not quite that user
>friendly, of course. You'll still spend most of your time looking at
>code except when creating tile maps or laying out a level.
>
>"Is it faster?" I can't even begin to tell you how much faster it is to
>make games than if you were creating everything from scratch or even
>recycling your own code. I can put together a simple prototype within a
>couple of hours, usually much less. I was working on a very basic
>prototype this week that took me about 30 minutes to build. Obviously,
>adding deeper gameplay and polish will add dozens if not hundreds of
>hours to that but even for the nitty gritty development tasks it's more
>efficient.
>
>"Or are these tools really only good for prototyping?" Definitely not.
>The engine is written in C++ and is extremely fast, plus, the physics
>and collision system is much better than I could create myself resulting
>in a much more "professional" feel.
>
>"What kind of executables do they generate in size?" Of course it
>depends on your game and the amount and quality of artwork and
>music/sound but in general, hitting the 10-20MB download range that most
>casual games occupy would be easy to achieve.
>
>"Do additional libraries need to be installed as part of the final
>product? Are these considerable in size?" Torque primarily uses OpenGL
>and also DirectX and it uses OpenAL for audio so there are no additional
>downloads necessary for the vast majority of users. Check out Fortune
>Tiles Gold. It was made with Torque 2D. The demo is about 10MB and you
>can see for yourself how it installs. Here's a link:
>http://www.gamehouse.com/gamedetails/?game=fortunetil
><http://www.gamehouse.com/gamedetails/?game=fortunetil&AID=4060>
>&AID=4060
>
>Here's a great resource for exploring game engines:
>http://www.devmaster.net/engines/ These are primarily 3D engines but
>it's still a great resource.
>
>This is just my experience but let me know if you have any other
>questions and I'd be happy to answer them.
>
>Dennis
>
>
>On Fri Apr 21 14:19 , 'Christian Belmont'
><christian_belmont at hotmail.com> sent:
>Hello all.
>
>This is my first post to the list, although I've been reading
>submissions for a few weeks.
>
>I was wondering if someone out there could relay any experiences with
>3rd party engines such as:
>
>Torque 2D Game Builder and Engine - GarageGames
>PopCap Framework
>
>I come from a C++ background and am really interested in the types of
>products that can be delivered from these tools. It should be evident
>that I haven't researched them yet, but I thought I'd gather some
>initial opinions.
>
>Is the development process radically different? Is it faster? Or are
>these tools really only good for prototyping? What kind of executables
>do they generate in size? Do additional libraries need to be installed
>as part of the final product? Are these considerable in size?
>
>Also, what other 3rd party engines/frameworks do developers feel are
>relevant to casual game development?
>
>Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Christian
>
>
>   _____
>
>
>

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