[casual_games] SIG conference call + International (Europe) ratings
Jason Akel
jasakel at hotmail.com
Wed Dec 20 12:23:00 EST 2006
IMPORTANT:
I have added an agenda item to the January 2nd IDGA Casual Games SIG
Executive Steering Committee monthly call a discussion regarding casual
games and ratings. We invite those who are interested to join us and
contribute your thoughts. From that call, we will take actions including
reaching out to IGDA board members.
If you would like to attend, contact me directly for details.
To answer a question asked in the thread, the two primary ratings systems
for Europe are USK (Germany) and PEGI (Europe in general).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterhaltungssoftware_Selbstkontrolle
http://www.pegi.info/pegi/index.do
Regards,
Jason Akel
Chair, IGDA Casual Games SIG
Games Marketing & BusDev Consultant
jasakel at gmail.com
510.964.9094 | Office
646.221.8885 | Cell
510.722.1604 | Fax
jasakel at hotmail.com | MSN IM
jasakel5 | AIM
jasakel | Skype
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of casual_games-request at igda.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:01 AM
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: Casual_Games Digest, Vol 19, Issue 18
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Slow death for the current generation ofcasualgames?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Lennard Feddersen)
2. Portal Sales (Alex Amsel)
3. Re: Slow death for the current generation of casual games?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Daniel Kinney)
4. Re: Slow death for the current generation of casual games?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Joe Pantuso)
5. Re: Slow death for the current generationofcasualgames?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Tim Turner)
6. Re: Slow death for the current generationofcasualgames?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Joe Pantuso)
7. Re: Slow death for the current generation of casual games?
(Audry Taylor)
8. Re: Slow death for the current generation of casual games?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (Matthew Douglass)
9. Re: Slow death for the current generation ofcasualgames?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (David Thomson)
10. Re: Slow death for the current generationofcasualgames?
(Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer) (James C. Smith)
11. Re: Slow death for the current generation of casual games?
(Matthew Douglass)
12. A Response from Microsoft (Christopher Natsuume)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:23:22 -0800
From: Lennard Feddersen <Lennard at RustyAxe.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation
ofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <45882E1A.2090902 at RustyAxe.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
As an indie all of this stuff rankles me to no end. I remember dealing
with Tapwaves DRM stuff on Zodiac - the sales didn't support their costs
and the turn around time simply got in the way of getting updates out to
users. Personally, Vista is not an opportunity to do anything but send
Bill and cohorts more cash.
That said, a sincere happy holidays to all on the list,
Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com
Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
P. July & August 518-863-2317
5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2
Brian Robbins wrote:
> So without knowing the inner details behind this, it looks like
> developers have a bit of a catch-22. We can install our games to the
> Games menu where users over time will learn to expect to see them
> appear, or we can ignore that and install them as "regular"
> applications.
>
> The tradeoff would seem to be that installing into the games menu will
> virtually require that the game has an ESRB rating, while installing
> as a "regular" application will cause our game to look out of place to
> the user.
>
>
> I haven't spoken to the ESRB in a while, but it would seem that it's
> in everyone's best interest to try to have a casual game rate or
> something like that. I think it's definitely something the IGDA should
> look into and I'll start that process. If anyone has a good contact
> there please let me know off-list.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:36:19 +0000
From: Alex Amsel <tuna at tunatech.com>
Subject: [casual_games] Portal Sales
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <45883F33.3080305 at tunatech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi All,
I'm actually not asking the usual question about individual game sales,
I'm interested in what typical directly [i.e. not through affiliates]
monthly portal sales figures from some of the medium sized sites are
like, excluding subscription services. Defining medium size is a little
tricky, but I guess I'm saying "more ArcadeTown than MSN", although I'd
be interested in their figures too. Same question for the smaller
portals/developers acting as affiliates.
I find I'm being asked this question quite a lot by UK devs.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone on the mail list too.
--
Alex Amsel
Tuna Technologies Ltd (Sheffield, UK)
Cross Platform Game Development
Tel: +44 (0)114 266 2211 Mob: +44(0)7771 524 632
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:54:10 -0500
From: "Daniel Kinney" <sonicron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of
casual games? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<a77bcfd60612191154y6af2435evebdc023148a5bab0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Forgive my ignorance, but how are the ratings handled in international
versions of Windows? ESRB is a U.S. entity, is it not? Since casual games
utilize the Internet as a distribution vehicle, would developers and
publishers be required to get certification from International ratings
boards as well, like the U.K.'s Elspa?
Even at a reduced rate from each ratings board, this would still add up to a
hefty fee for the developer. This is beginning to sound a little absurd...
someone please tell me I'm wrong.
Best Regards,
Daniel Kinney
On 12/18/06, Dave Selle <Dave.Selle at wildtangent.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>
>
> Just dropping you a bit of cheer before the holidays?
>
>
>
> But seriously I want to raise some issues with our game community that we
> are seeing currently in our network which will become acute in the very
near
> future for many developers.
>
>
>
> Overall I also am very interested to hear in general what is happening
> with Vista preparedness across the industry and what issues you may be
> encountering. Here are some of the things that **we** have learned:
>
>
>
> *==Casual Games Vista Bugs==*
>
>
>
> About 80% of the games we get from third party developers have some kind
> of issue with Vista.
>
>
>
> Just under half of that number are "severe" issues that will significantly
> impact a user's ability to play the game. In our network, these will have
to
> be pulled once our OEM partners start shipping Vista on new consumer
> machines. Outside our network, these will die a slow but equally
inevitable
> death (if nothing is done to fix them) as consumer adoption of Vista
marches
> forward.
>
>
>
> The issues are mainly in two areas:
>
>
>
> - Installation/save games
> - Sleep/Hibernate resume
>
>
>
> In terms of Installation, many games write config files or save game data
> into the program files area. In Vista this are gets virtualized per user.
> Depending on what data is written users can lose save games or in some
cases
> will not be able to run at all as a non-elevated user after the initial
> install. One thing that you can do now in XP to check is to run in a
limited
> user mode on XP. If your game installs and runs fine in that mode, 90% it
> will work in Vista also.
>
>
>
> The other big one is sleep/resume. Sleep behavior is turned ON by default
> in Vista, so everyone with a new PC will be experiencing this.
Furthermore,
> Notebooks are the fastest growing segment of the PC market and there it's
> not just a nice to have feature. Many games do not recover well, or at
all,
> when coming out of sleep mode.
>
>
>
> *==Parental Controls & Vista==*
>
>
>
> And finally, even if you fix your bugs there is one other issue looming
> which could significantly limit accessibility to your games under Vista:
> Parental Controls.
>
>
>
> Vista comes with a robust set of Parental controls based on games' ESRB
> ratings. And as we all know, relatively few casual games currently are
ESRB
> rated because few developers have seen the ROI for the cost and effort of
> going through the submission process. Vista will certainly change this
> equation, especially for new games.
>
>
>
> Under Vista, as soon as **any** level of parental controls are set for
> games *all* unrated games will be hidden from the game explorer and
> require a lot of extra steps to access them. That's right: your games can
> just go "poof" and effectively disappear in Vista.
>
>
>
> The best defense against this particular threat is to get out in front of
> it and get your games ESRB rated. After the New Year comes and the Royalty
> checks start coming in I would strongly encourage all developers to
consider
> this investment in the future of their games.
>
>
>
> Any other big Vista issues that folks are seeing out there?
>
>
>
> Here is wishing everyone a happy and successful holiday season!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> --Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *WildTangent*
> *David Selle*
> *VP, Content Acquisition & Developer Relations*
> dselle at wildtangent.com
> 18578 NE 67th Court
> Redmond, WA
98052<http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=18578+NE+67th+Court&csz
=Redmond%2C+WA+98052&country=us>
> tel: 425-497-4538
>
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signature&To=425-497-4538&Email=d
selle at wildtangent.com>
> fax: 425-497-4501
> mobile: 425-894-0707
>
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signature&To=425-894-0707&Email=d
selle at wildtangent.com>
> www.wildtangent.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *Add me to your address book...
*<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065769524&v0=1992267&k0=339952630>
> *Want a signature like this? * <http://www.plaxo.com/signature>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
> Archive: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/casual_games/
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:07:45 -0500
From: "Joe Pantuso" <jpantuso at traygames.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of
casual games? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<dad449010612191207v3e15d021k66675e1051eb871f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I await a MS response to this thread with bated breath. Any MS folk in here
please forward around to somone who can jump in.
On 12/19/06, Daniel Kinney <sonicron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but how are the ratings handled in international
> versions of Windows? ESRB is a U.S. entity, is it not? Since casual games
> utilize the Internet as a distribution vehicle, would developers and
> publishers be required to get certification from International ratings
> boards as well, like the U.K.'s Elspa?
>
> Even at a reduced rate from each ratings board, this would still add up to
> a hefty fee for the developer. This is beginning to sound a little
absurd...
> someone please tell me I'm wrong.
>
> Best Regards,
> Daniel Kinney
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:27:05 -0800
From: "Tim Turner" <tturner at cmpgames.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current
generationofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <20061219202726.09F74AE3B at mailwash7.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Put me through to Mr. Gates please. I'm calling from the Casual Games list
and if he know what is good for him he will take this call!"
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Joe Pantuso
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:43 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current
generationofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
Yes! This is definitely needed. The disparity in fee as % of development
cost between an indy casual game and a AAA game is far beyond absurd.
Perhaps we should be pushing MS to put some pressure on ESRB, they created
this situation after all.
On 12/19/06, Brian Robbins <brian-l at dubane.com> wrote:
So without knowing the inner details behind this, it looks like
developers have a bit of a catch-22. We can install our games to the
Games menu where users over time will learn to expect to see them
appear, or we can ignore that and install them as "regular"
applications.
The tradeoff would seem to be that installing into the games menu will
virtually require that the game has an ESRB rating, while installing
as a "regular" application will cause our game to look out of place to
the user.
I haven't spoken to the ESRB in a while, but it would seem that it's
in everyone's best interest to try to have a casual game rate or
something like that. I think it's definitely something the IGDA should
look into and I'll start that process. If anyone has a good contact
there please let me know off-list.
Thanks!
--
Brian Robbins
Executive Producer and Gaming Evangelist
Fuel Industries - www.fuelgames.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:29:49 -0500
From: "Joe Pantuso" <jpantuso at traygames.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current
generationofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<dad449010612191229w7ec7ae22sce6da3468518de8d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Damn straight ;-)
On 12/19/06, Tim Turner <tturner at cmpgames.com> wrote:
>
> "Put me through to Mr. Gates please. I'm calling from the Casual Games
> list and if he know what is good for him he will take this call!"
>
>
>
>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:46:17 -0800
From: "Audry Taylor" <talshannon at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of
casual games?
To: casual_games at igda.org
Message-ID: <BAY102-F178AE5D92F36668D7A4EEDCDC80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>>Vista has a 'games' menu that is different from the typical program menu.
>>The preferred (by MS) behavior for games is to install your program
>>shortcuts there only and not install like a regular app.
Are restrictions being placed on how regular apps are installed? Will Vista
attempt to classify incoming programs as "games" or will it accept whatever
category the program classifies itself as?
Another question this brings to mind is how will programs that provide
games, but aren't games themselves, be classified? If a user downloads and
installs Steam, will it join the regular apps or the games?
I work for a company that is just getting its feet wet in the casual sector.
Our target audience is under 18 and our budget is small. If we have get
every game an ESRB rating, that could increase our costs tremendously. That
would be frustrating, to say the least.
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://dav
evscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:47:30 -0800
From: "Matthew Douglass" <mdouglass at mind-control.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of
casual games? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <005001c723ae$e739e040$b5ada0c0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Games Explorer is capable of handling ratings from a number of different
services - currently the GUI tools let you choose from CERO, ESRB, Office of
Film and Literature Classification, PEGI, PEGI w/ BBFC and
Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle.
If you get the latest DirectX SDK there is a help file specifically for the
Game Explorer installed. You also get the Game Definition File Editor which
gives you a nice GUI for creating the .GDF files that you need to package
with your executable.
Matthew
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Daniel Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:54 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of casual
games? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
Forgive my ignorance, but how are the ratings handled in international
versions of Windows? ESRB is a U.S. entity, is it not? Since casual games
utilize the Internet as a distribution vehicle, would developers and
publishers be required to get certification from International ratings
boards as well, like the U.K.'s Elspa?
Even at a reduced rate from each ratings board, this would still add up to a
hefty fee for the developer. This is beginning to sound a little absurd...
someone please tell me I'm wrong.
Best Regards,
Daniel Kinney
On 12/18/06, Dave Selle <Dave.Selle at wildtangent.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Just dropping you a bit of cheer before the holidays.
But seriously I want to raise some issues with our game community that we
are seeing currently in our network which will become acute in the very near
future for many developers.
Overall I also am very interested to hear in general what is happening with
Vista preparedness across the industry and what issues you may be
encountering. Here are some of the things that *we* have learned:
==Casual Games Vista Bugs==
About 80% of the games we get from third party developers have some kind of
issue with Vista.
Just under half of that number are "severe" issues that will significantly
impact a user's ability to play the game. In our network, these will have to
be pulled once our OEM partners start shipping Vista on new consumer
machines. Outside our network, these will die a slow but equally inevitable
death (if nothing is done to fix them) as consumer adoption of Vista marches
forward.
The issues are mainly in two areas:
* Installation/save games
* Sleep/Hibernate resume
In terms of Installation, many games write config files or save game data
into the program files area. In Vista this are gets virtualized per user.
Depending on what data is written users can lose save games or in some cases
will not be able to run at all as a non-elevated user after the initial
install. One thing that you can do now in XP to check is to run in a limited
user mode on XP. If your game installs and runs fine in that mode, 90% it
will work in Vista also.
The other big one is sleep/resume. Sleep behavior is turned ON by default in
Vista, so everyone with a new PC will be experiencing this. Furthermore,
Notebooks are the fastest growing segment of the PC market and there it's
not just a nice to have feature. Many games do not recover well, or at all,
when coming out of sleep mode.
==Parental Controls & Vista==
And finally, even if you fix your bugs there is one other issue looming
which could significantly limit accessibility to your games under Vista:
Parental Controls.
Vista comes with a robust set of Parental controls based on games' ESRB
ratings. And as we all know, relatively few casual games currently are ESRB
rated because few developers have seen the ROI for the cost and effort of
going through the submission process. Vista will certainly change this
equation, especially for new games.
Under Vista, as soon as *any* level of parental controls are set for games
all unrated games will be hidden from the game explorer and require a lot of
extra steps to access them. That's right: your games can just go "poof" and
effectively disappear in Vista.
The best defense against this particular threat is to get out in front of it
and get your games ESRB rated. After the New Year comes and the Royalty
checks start coming in I would strongly encourage all developers to consider
this investment in the future of their games.
Any other big Vista issues that folks are seeing out there?
Here is wishing everyone a happy and successful holiday season!
Best,
--Dave
WildTangent
David Selle
VP, Content Acquisition & Developer Relations
<mailto:dselle at wildtangent.com> dselle at wildtangent.com
<http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=18578+NE+67th+Court&csz=Redm
ond%2C+WA+98052&country=us> 18578 NE 67th Court
Redmond, WA 98052
tel:
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signature&To=425-497-4538&Email=d
selle at wildtangent.com> 425-497-4538 Error! Filename not specified.
fax: 425-497-4501
mobile:
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?src=jj_signature&To=425-894-0707&Email=d
selle at wildtangent.com> 425-894-0707 Error! Filename not specified.
www.wildtangent.com
<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065769524&v0=1992267&k0=339952630> Add me
to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:29:30 +0000
From: David Thomson <dave at slam-games.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation
ofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <85FE47EF-93CB-4661-BFD5-B04C42F6A59B at slam-games.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On 19 Dec 2006, at 15:06, Brian Robbins wrote:
> I haven't spoken to the ESRB in a while, but it would seem that it's
> in everyone's best interest to try to have a casual game rate or
> something like that. I think it's definitely something the IGDA should
> look into and I'll start that process. If anyone has a good contact
> there please let me know off-list.
Just a thought, but given that we can't define what a casual game is
amongst ourselves (and thus probably can't expect the ESRB to know),
it might be a better idea for the fees to be structured around the
price point of the game.
Cheers,
David
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:44:34 -0800
From: "James C. Smith" <james at reflexive.net>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current
generationofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <017301c723b6$df978e20$6301010a at Reflexive>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> it might be a better idea for the
>> fees to be structured around the
>> price point of the game.
Or the size of the game. For example, "small" games (less that 50 MB) could
be less expensive to rate.
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of David Thomson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:30 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current
generationofcasualgames? (Bugs, Parental Controls & Game Explorer)
On 19 Dec 2006, at 15:06, Brian Robbins wrote:
> I haven't spoken to the ESRB in a while, but it would seem that it's
> in everyone's best interest to try to have a casual game rate or
> something like that. I think it's definitely something the IGDA should
> look into and I'll start that process. If anyone has a good contact
> there please let me know off-list.
Just a thought, but given that we can't define what a casual game is
amongst ourselves (and thus probably can't expect the ESRB to know),
it might be a better idea for the fees to be structured around the
price point of the game.
Cheers,
David
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:57:00 -0800
From: "Matthew Douglass" <mdouglass at mind-control.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of
casual games?
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <006c01c723b8$9cdb2270$d6916750$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The game itself decides during installation whether or not to add itself to
the Game Explorer -- it is completely opt-in. (I should note one exception
-- there are a few legacy games that MS auto-detects and adds to the Game
Explorer -- but if you're in this category you probably already know it).
Also, as far as I know nothing stops you from adding yourself to the Start
Menu as well as to the Game Explorer (and in fact, that's what we're doing
currently).
And a final note -- when Parental Controls is installed the default option
is to allow unrated games to be played. So that at least helps a little.
The system is defined to allow ratings from multiple sources; maybe the IGDA
(or someone else) can start a rating system more oriented towards the casual
game space.
Matthew
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Audry Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:46 PM
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of casual
games?
>>Vista has a 'games' menu that is different from the typical program menu.
>>The preferred (by MS) behavior for games is to install your program
>>shortcuts there only and not install like a regular app.
Are restrictions being placed on how regular apps are installed? Will Vista
attempt to classify incoming programs as "games" or will it accept whatever
category the program classifies itself as?
Another question this brings to mind is how will programs that provide
games, but aren't games themselves, be classified? If a user downloads and
installs Steam, will it join the regular apps or the games?
I work for a company that is just getting its feet wet in the casual sector.
Our target audience is under 18 and our budget is small. If we have get
every game an ESRB rating, that could increase our costs tremendously. That
would be frustrating, to say the least.
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://dav
evscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:47:17 -0800
From: "Christopher Natsuume" <natsuume at boomzap.com>
Subject: [casual_games] A Response from Microsoft
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <20061220004723.2BA2DAE33 at mailwash7.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I forwarded our conversation to an old friend of mine in the MSFT game
technology group, and he passed along this information, which is very
informative:
______________
(feel free to repost this to the list)
The ratings issue is something the casual game industry needs to engage on.
Anyone can see the writing is on the wall with respect to the potential for
governmental action, but I agree that the current ratings system and boards
have major economic and procedural issues for low-cost games. There has,
however, been a bit of misinformation in this thread about Microsoft's
position on Parental Controls, unrated games, and our role in the process.
Microsoft does not expect every game to be rated. We strongly encouraged
those games that are rated to expose this information in the Game Explorer,
but the default when enabling Parental Controls is in fact "Allow unrated
games". Obviously parents may set to "disallow unrated games" in which case
they can allow specific games on a case-by-case basis once they are
installed. Parental Controls enforcement itself is disabled by default, so
it is something that has be 'opted in'. We are not involved with the ratings
process itself, nor do we police them. That is between the publisher and the
ratings board. Microsoft just provides an OS-level way to enforce them if
desired by the user.
We do hope that most developers and publishers will digitally sign all their
executables & dlls. We leverage digital signatures in Windows Vista more
than we have before, and it does provide for some level of protection from
many common forms of malware. For a few specific things, signing is
mandatory (kernel-mode drivers on Windows Vista x64, digital signatures are
required for the Game Explorer to trust the rating information provided by a
game) but for most things it is not required, although the dialogs that
surface this information are more alarming for unsigned programs. Getting a
digital signature is not a huge burden and is not thousands of dollars per
game. It is a few hundred dollars per publisher per year to obtain a code
signing cert, and it can come from any of the trusted certificate
authorities. It is basically the same kind of cert you need to run a secure
SSL website.
The issues with User Account Control are a near universal problem in the
game industry, and even the broader software industry. The Windows Gaming
Developer Relations Groups have been trying to get game developers to pay
attention to Limited User Accounts on XP for 7+ years precisely because of
what was coming. Unfortunately when it comes to deployment issues, "least
best effort" is all too common a standard and until things start breaking
few people proactively took action. There are a few new things to do for
Windows Vista that help (notably embedded manifests with <trustInfo>
blocks), but if you have a game that worked fine under Limited User Accounts
on XP it shouldn't be having any major issues on Windows Vista.
It seems clear that few people on this thread have fired up a build of
Windows Vista and/or read the many DirectX SDK technical articles that cover
working better with the Windows platform. No doubt since so many of the
casual devs have stayed with DirectX 7 or 8 and are therefore 20+ releases
of the SDK behind, the visibility of these articles has unfortunately been
minimal for them.
The first step is to get informed. Get the DirectX SDK (December 2006)
release from http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/ and check out the technical
articles in the documentation. In particular, read the "Games for Windows
Technical Requirements". This is a great summary of what we feel are the
best practices for making games that run well on Windows Vista, as well as
Windows XP. None of these requirements should necessarily prevent supporting
older versions of Windows, although you are basically on your own
particularly for Windows 95, 98, 98 SE, and ME. There are also some GameFest
2006 presentations on these topics linked from the DirectX Developer Portal.
Note that the online MSDN Library version of the docs is currently still the
Oct06 version, which will hopefully be updated in the next few days.
Another good step is to get a copy of Windows Vista. If you have an MSDN
Subscription, RTM builds are available now. Older RCs are still floating
around here and there, although obviously RTM is the best. Try playing with
the Game Explorer. Try enabling and configuring Parental Controls (note
these are disabled if you join the machine to a domain). If you don't have
access to an MSDN Subscription or an RC build, then get a copy when it
releases in January.
In the long run, the game-centric features of Windows Vista which improve
the platform overall. One of the posters was complaining how they can't rely
on 3D to work for the "average" machine. Windows Vista goes a long way to
making "average 3D" both stable and usable (shader model 2.0 Direct3D 9 is a
pretty decent min bar). There are some new things to do with regards to
deployment you should be doing, especially to support Game Explorer, but
there are also alternatives to traditional installs as well (purely
side-by-side and per-user installs for one). We have tried hard over the
past year to make sure the latest DirectX SDK contains all the information
you need to make great games on Windows Vista, so that would be the best
place to start.
-Chuck Walbourn
SDE, Game Technology Group
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Matthew Douglass
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:57 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation ofcasual
games?
The game itself decides during installation whether or not to add itself to
the Game Explorer -- it is completely opt-in. (I should note one exception
-- there are a few legacy games that MS auto-detects and adds to the Game
Explorer -- but if you're in this category you probably already know it).
Also, as far as I know nothing stops you from adding yourself to the Start
Menu as well as to the Game Explorer (and in fact, that's what we're doing
currently).
And a final note -- when Parental Controls is installed the default option
is to allow unrated games to be played. So that at least helps a little.
The system is defined to allow ratings from multiple sources; maybe the IGDA
(or someone else) can start a rating system more oriented towards the casual
game space.
Matthew
-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Audry Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:46 PM
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Slow death for the current generation of casual
games?
>>Vista has a 'games' menu that is different from the typical program menu.
>>The preferred (by MS) behavior for games is to install your program
>>shortcuts there only and not install like a regular app.
Are restrictions being placed on how regular apps are installed? Will Vista
attempt to classify incoming programs as "games" or will it accept whatever
category the program classifies itself as?
Another question this brings to mind is how will programs that provide
games, but aren't games themselves, be classified? If a user downloads and
installs Steam, will it join the regular apps or the games?
I work for a company that is just getting its feet wet in the casual sector.
Our target audience is under 18 and our budget is small. If we have get
every game an ESRB rating, that could increase our costs tremendously. That
would be frustrating, to say the least.
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://dav
evscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
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