[casual_games] If Vista is going to be such a problem...

[Hal Barwood]

I think we should consider ratings from our customers' perspective:  I 
doubt that most gamers, casual or not, want to learn the intricacies of 
yet another rating system.  Once people are familiar with M and T and E, 
that's enough already.  Confusion in the marketplace helps no one.  We 
will be wise to goad ESRB and MS, and try to stay in the fold, I believe.

Meanwhile, wouldn't it be nice if MS thought of end-users as their 
customers instead of IT departments?

Happy Holidays all,

Hal





Allen Partridge wrote:

> They probably trademarked the ‘mark’ but I doubt they could do anything 

> about the letter “M” for example. I’m pretty sure other things use 

> similar systems – my daughter’s Manga collection for example. I think 

> you are right that any parallel system should use parallel ratings.

> 

>  

> 

> --Al

> 

>  

> 

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 

> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Wayne Imlach

> *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2006 12:51 PM

> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List

> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] If Vista is going to be such a problem...

> 

>  

> 

> Does someone installing a rated game on Vista ever see who actually 

> rated the game? Does an ESRB logo appear during installation? Is it a 

> requirement to display this logo during install? Is it displayed when 

> the user purchases the game? Is it displayed anywhere in-game?

> 

>  

> 

> If the system is totally transparent to the end user, then then it 

> doesn't matter if the game was rated by the ESRB or the CGRB (Casual 

> Games Rating Board) - just as long as it gets blocked when appropriate. 

> 

>  

> 

> In addition, if a Symbol is displayed during any of the above stages, 

> I'd say maintaining a single ratings board is not important, but rather 

> the ratings system used across boards is the thing to remain consistent. 

> When a consumer picks up a rated game, they are looking at the big 'M' 

> or 'E', not the little 'esrb' logo at the bottom. 

> 

>  

> 

> I don't think an alternate rating board would make a jot of difference 

> to the consumer - however a different ratings //system// would probably 

> muddy things somewhat though.

> 

>  

> 

> Does the ESRB have some kind of copyright on the ratings system and 

> symbols it uses?

> 

>     ----- Original Message -----

> 

>     *From:* Dustin Clingman <mailto:dsc at zeitgeistgames.com>

> 

>     *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'

>     <mailto:casual_games at igda.org>

> 

>     *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2006 1:39 PM

> 

>     *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] If Vista is going to be such a problem...

> 

>      

> 

>     I’ll have to disagree with you on one front Andreas. The ESRB is a

>     developed, connected and more importantly has reasonably consumer

>     understood rating system. If the IGDA and CCA can do anything here

>     for us it’s to educate the ESRB et al (way too many acronyms here)

>     on the kinds of products sold in this segment to work to generate

>     alternatives that can allow for a lower priced solution.

> 

>      

> 

>     Splintering off will not help; it will just force us to spend our

>     own time and energy in propagating the new system, generating

>     explanatory media, etc. All in all, a lot of work and money just to

>     come back to where the ESRB already is with a hopefully lower cost

>     solution.

> 

>      

> 

>     Dustin

> 

>      

> 

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

>     *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org

>     [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andreas

>     Schneider - GAMGO

>     *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2006 8:28 AM

>     *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'

>     *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] If Vista is going to be such a problem...

> 

>      

> 

>     Good idea Allen - why not start our own rating system controled by

>     representatives from every country and people from the casual games

>     industry. I think the IGDA could help here. This could also be the

>     clue to see which are casual games and which not.  I would be happy

>     to see something like that instead of paying fees to some

>     organisation that doesn't really know what a casual game is and is

>     working in a totaly different genre of games.

> 

>      

> 

>     Andreas

> 

>     gamgogames.com

> 

>      

> 

>      

> 

>      

> 

>      

> 

>      

> 

>     The ESRB is an industry generated entity designed to pre-empt

>     legislative restrictions and oversight. The industry it monitors is

>     ‘hard core games’ – we’ll skip the debate over the term for now. The

>     Casual Games Association and / or the IGDA Casual Games Sig or any

>     established and ‘known’ industry representative group could easily

>     create a parallel group that may operate based on it’s own rules

>     (and fees) and which Microsoft would have to treat the same as the

>     ESRB (as would the federal government etc.)

> 

>      

> 

>     We do everything else separately, why not accept the differences and

>     impose our own regulatory agency rather than subject ourselves to

>     one that is rife with problems.

> 

>      

> 

>     It also would distance us from those ‘violent’ mainstream games,

>     give us a shot at free publicity, embed our reputation as ‘safe

>     games’ and provide big time news coverage – leading to more stories

>     about portals etc in major news outlets and overall could be a boon

>     to the industry.

> 

>      

> 

>     --Allen

> 

>      

> 

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

>     *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org

>     [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Headley

>     *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2006 1:24 AM

>     *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List

>     *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] If Vista is going to be such a problem...

> 

>      

> 

>     wasn't the ESRB actually required to play the games, after the hot

>     coffee debacle? Ah, my bad, but it was proposed by Senator Brownback

> 

>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_in_Video_Game_Rating_Act

>     <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_in_Video_Game_Rating_Act>

> 

>     Also, I don't know that the ESRB is willing to risk allowing 3rd

>     party certifiers with so many politicians out to get them.

> 

>     On 12/22/06, *Joe Pantuso *<jpantuso at traygames.com

>     <mailto:jpantuso at traygames.com>> wrote:

> 

>     ESRB doesn't actually load up and test anything.  You submit a video

>     tape of gameplay to them.  And ESRB charges you $400 to $2500 for

>     the pleasure of viewing the tape, what's the hourly rate on that? 

>     Their business model is very simple, and there is no incentive

>     whatsoever for them to make it any cheaper or easier for us to pay

>     that protection, er, I mean ratings fee.

> 

>      

> 

>     The news that we may be able to get casual games treated at the $400

>     rate is a good start.  I'd like to see $250, especially as the

>     'gameplay' video for Chess, for example, is going to pretty damn

>     short and sweet.

> 

>      

> 

>      

> 

> 

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