[casual_games] mistake in my signature.

Mon Jan 30 12:52:47 EST 2006

Sorry everybody I had made a mistake in my signature. Its updated now thanks
to Steve at Fresh Games for pointing it out to me.

---------------------------------------
Michael Grills
url: http://illustrationandartwork.com/
e-mail: michael at illustrationandartwork.com
tel: 403 921 6112
Skype: Michael Grills
Msn: michael.grills at gmail.com
-----------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]On
Behalf Of casual_games-request at igda.org
Sent: January 30, 2006 10:06 AM
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: Casual_Games Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: C to J2ME tools (Lennard Feddersen)
   2. Community Functionality (Allan Simonsen)
   3. Re: Flash for game development whitepaper (johns at worldwinner.com)
   4. RE: Community Functionality (James C. Smith)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:20:19 -0800
From: Lennard Feddersen <Lennard at RustyAxe.com>
Subject: Re: [casual_games] C to J2ME tools
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <43DD1573.6040406 at RustyAxe.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I think you are right about treating it as a different SKU - mostly I
was pondering a J2ME port if the product is moderately successful but
not so successful that I can just sell off (or manage the porting of)
the IP.  This was all brought about seeing J2ME games for sale on the
web - my guess is that isn't a very financially viable market but it is
a way to release games outside of the various cell phone market gatekeepers.

I enjoyed the line /"hopefully not you" - /my feelings exactly :->).  On
a technical note I code my games to an abstraction layer that has been
ported to S60 (see Colony for NGage) but those devices are all just so
tweaky that I am looking for a cleaner solution so I can implement the
designs that interest me on the PC side (what I enjoy doing in the
environment I like to work in) and not have to remember all of the
details of many handheld devices each time porting season rolls around.

Anyhow, thanks for the thoughts - hopefully the blockbuster success of
my next opus will mean that I can see my design on a cellphone without
having to roll code myself.

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com

Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7

Allan Simonsen wrote:

>Probably more usefull to think of it as a totally
>different SKU, kinda like porting a franchise from PS2
>to GBA :)
>
>This is especially true on J2ME platforms, which
>suffers from all kinds of interesting artefacts; both
>in how the API operates, and in
>size/speed/memory/screen restrictions. Compile once,
>run anywhere....muahahahah.
>
>In general, the gatekeepers to this market
>(essentially the Telcos and the Aggregators) are
>looking for these SKUs:
>
>- S40 J2ME Version (64kb should be enough for anyone)
>- S60 J2ME Version (128kb, faster CPU, larger screen)
>- high-end J2ME (pick the showcase phone of the last 6
>months)
>- BREW Low-end (equivalent specs to S60)
>- BREW High-end (equivalent to showcase J2ME)
>
>If they like what they see, someone (hopefully not
>you) will be asked to branch this into the 100+ other
>phone-models on the market.
>
>In addition, the gatekeeper may ask for DOJA or
>SYMBIAN versions of popular titles.
>
>BREW is a C++ API for handphones sold in US and Korea.
>
>J2ME is used in AsiaPac, Europe and America
>
>DOJA is an enhanved flavour of J2ME, used in Japan and
>by other telcos pushing DOCOMO content.
>
>SYMBIAN is a 'high-performance' C++ environment for
>smartphones, where you can actually do pretty decent
>development performance. The NGage was essentially a
>S60 phone running on SYMBIAN.
>
>As you can see; developing in C and porting to J2ME
>will be the least of your worry; the bulk of it comes
>in developing a flexible architecture that abstracts
>the 100+ SKUs into a single interface, and does so in
>an application that can fit inside a 64KB JAR file :)
>
>Allan
>
>
>
>>Thanks for the thoughts Allan.  I'll only do a
>>mobile version if the PC
>>SKU is doing well so it would be a port of a
>>finalized game where
>>performance is a non-issue.  Last I looked at the
>>cellphones they were
>>getting pretty capable - is 64K really an important
>>commercial threshold?
>>
>>Lennard Feddersen
>>CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>>www.RustyAxe.com
>>
>>Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>>P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>>3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>>
>>
>>
>>Allan Simonsen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>One project we were involved in used some form of
>>>
>>>
>>C++
>>
>>
>>>-> J2ME tool to convert between BREW and J2ME. It
>>>kinda works, but you'll need to continously
>>>
>>>
>>hand-tweak
>>
>>
>>>it around the things that DIDN'T. For us it was
>>>
>>>
>>almost
>>
>>
>>>worth it, since we were developing in parallell for
>>>both platforms, but...
>>>
>>>- If you're ONLY doing the mobile platform, go
>>>straight to J2ME, do not pass C++.
>>>
>>>- You'd need to hand-code a low-level abstraction
>>>
>>>
>>API,
>>
>>
>>>since the converter only understands how to change
>>>syntactic sugar and basic types, not how to blit a
>>>sprite or load a sound.
>>>
>>>- Handphone games have totally different
>>>
>>>
>>restrictions
>>
>>
>>>than casual games for the PC; especially the sub
>>>
>>>
>>64kb
>>
>>
>>>platforms (S40 J2ME), where you'll end up harcoding
>>>everything in 3-5 classes to avoid the per-class
>>>overhead. NOT the way you want to think when coding
>>>for the PC.
>>>
>>>- Handphone games spend a lot of energy abstracting
>>>screensize and phone capabilites so it will run
>>>
>>>
>>nicely
>>
>>
>>>on the hundreds of different platforms. This is a
>>>
>>>
>>pain
>>
>>
>>>when you're prototyping a design idea. It also
>>>involves making a significant investment in your
>>>art-pipeline (to handle somewhere between 3-10
>>>different base-SKUs at coding-time).
>>>
>>>My personal recommendation would be to ignore
>>>handphones during development, and then spend the
>>>
>>>
>>time
>>
>>
>>>after the PC game shipped on developing the mobile
>>>game, once gameplay and look is nailed down.
>>>
>>>Alternatively, there are a bunch of low-cost
>>>
>>>
>>porting
>>
>>
>>>houses that will take your PC game and churn out a
>>>J2ME + BREW multi-SKU product; that might be more
>>>
>>>
>>of a
>>
>>
>>>plan if your game is a success.
>>>
>>>Allan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- Lennard Feddersen <Lennard at RustyAxe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does anybody have any experience with automated C
>>>>
>>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>>J2ME style tools?
>>>>I'm in the early days of my next project and think
>>>>it would fit well on
>>>>cell phones but would prefer to do my PC coding in
>>>>C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Allan Simonsen
>>>
>>>
>>simonsen at rocketmail.com
>>
>>
>>>ICQ# 16606984
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>>>
>>>
>>protection around
>>
>>
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Casual_Games mailing list
>>>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>>
>>>
>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Casual_Games mailing list
>>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>
>>
>>
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>
>
>
>
>Allan Simonsen                    simonsen at rocketmail.com
>ICQ# 16606984
>
>__________________________________________________
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>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>
>
>

--

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:49:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Allan Simonsen <Simonsen at rocketmail.com>
Subject: [casual_games] Community Functionality
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <20060130024928.91117.qmail at web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

What community functionality are people looking at
implementing?

I'm quite curious at where this is going, and how
we're essentially duplicating work provided by other
systems (IM, Mail, Web). However, since our target
audience isn't very tech-savy, they might be quite
happy to do everything inside the same context.

As an aside; are anyone using the SDK's provided (by
Skype, GMAIL, MSN, etc) to build IM or VoiP into their
titles?

At what point does your community functions threaten
distributors?

We're seeing that a lot of distributors are cautious
about adopting community functions; anything that
connects to an outside website is viewed as a
potential leak out of their closed system.

Looking at what the current state of the art in
community systems are :
- Uploading and tracking highscores (seems generally
accepted)
- Uploading and tracking content (as long as it's
seemless)
- Tracking user information and ID (across single
title is okay, leveraging it across multi-title seems
a no-no)
- in-game IM/user mail services (similar to what
Mahjong Towers Eternity is doing.. seems to make some
distros edgy).

Anything I'm missing?

Enough 5c's will eventually make a whole dollar.

Allan

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:45:41 -0500
From: johns at worldwinner.com
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Flash for game development whitepaper
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <20060130134541.GA28326 at ralph.worldwinner.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hi

( 06.01.28 20:57 +0000 ) chris at chriscowherd.com:
> Macromedia Flash

isn't that *adobe* flash now ...

--
\js     oblique strategy: convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:36:07 -0800
From: "James C. Smith" <james at Reflexive.net>
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Community Functionality
To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" <casual_games at igda.org>
Message-ID: <04a501c625bb$44de9df0$1c01010a at Reflexive>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

What type of 'casual games' are you thinking of when you talk about all
these issues? Are these cell phone games, web based games, adver games,
subscription based, or downloadable try and buy? I am sure all those issues
you mentioned could apply to all of the platforms/business models that I
mentioned. But I would like to focus the discussion a little more narrowly
than that or else it is way broad and abstracts.

James C. Smith
Game Designer/Programmer: Ricochet Xtreme, Ricochet Lost Worlds, Big Kahuna
Reef, Big Kahuna Words

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Allan Simonsen
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:49 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Community Functionality

What community functionality are people looking at implementing?

I'm quite curious at where this is going, and how
we're essentially duplicating work provided by other
systems (IM, Mail, Web). However, since our target
audience isn't very tech-savy, they might be quite
happy to do everything inside the same context.

As an aside; are anyone using the SDK's provided (by
Skype, GMAIL, MSN, etc) to build IM or VoiP into their
titles?

At what point does your community functions threaten distributors?

We're seeing that a lot of distributors are cautious
about adopting community functions; anything that
connects to an outside website is viewed as a
potential leak out of their closed system.

Looking at what the current state of the art in
community systems are :
- Uploading and tracking highscores (seems generally
accepted)
- Uploading and tracking content (as long as it's
seemless)
- Tracking user information and ID (across single
title is okay, leveraging it across multi-title seems
a no-no)
- in-game IM/user mail services (similar to what
Mahjong Towers Eternity is doing.. seems to make some
distros edgy).

Anything I'm missing?

Enough 5c's will eventually make a whole dollar.

Allan

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games

------------------------------

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End of Casual_Games Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26
*******************************************