[casual_games] RE: Copycats -- What Can Be Done?

[Austin Haas]

"The "Portugese plumber" example is tantamount to what I "perceived" was being
done with the sound effects straight from Zuma..."

Only if the sound effects were engineered from scratch and not pulled from a
sound library would this be a fair comparison. Or, conversely, if the Mario
character was pulled from some royalty-free clip art. It is entirely possible
that the sound effect is even labeled "gem pop" or something similar in the
sound library.

I think cloning games is lame, but I want to be clear about what is and what
isn't copyright infringement.

You might want to argue that using the sound in that context is what makes it
infringe, but I have libraries of sound fx that are labeled "forcefield
powerup," "health pickup," etc., so I don't think anyone would have any claim
for how they are used.

-austin

Austin Haas
Pet Tomato, Inc.
http://pettomato.com

Jamie Carlson wrote:
> Hi Kim,
> 
>> - Jamie, You've spawned a good discussion. However, if you are going to
>> start accusing people of such things, the *least* you could do is
>> download the game, vs watching the preview video.
> 
> Totally agree. And I did give Dynasty about 15 minutes but was unable to
> get the "explosion" or "slow down" powerups so was unable to hear their
> respective sounds (I only was able to get the "colored dragon" powerups
> which eat the like-colored eggs down the level's path).
> 
> After that initial sampling, and when compounded by my positive-bias
> towards BigFishGames, I just deemed it to be inconceivable that BFG
> would go to the trouble to alter the video and overlay Zuma's sounds...
> obviously, I was wrong.
> 
> I thank James Smith for verifying this for me as well:
> 
>> James Smith said:
>> When I watched the movie on BigFishGames.com I was amazed that such a
>> similar sound would be used for such a similar purpose. It seemed very
>> unjust.   But when I played the actual game I did not find anything I
>> considered to be an unjust use of sounds.
> 
> Heck, Popcap is certainly more than capable of discerning themselves
> which Zuma-clones they feel they have grounds to sue over (see first
> paragraph of the review of Magnetica:
> http://gba.gamespy.com/nintendo-ds/puzzeloop/711555p1.html), so mine is
> just another opinion from the "Peanut Gallery". It's the beauty of the
> Internet, everyone has a platform, do they not?  :)
> 
> 
>> - The "dislodging" of the 'launcher' actually is an interesting mechanic
>> change. You don't 'fire' the balls so much as swap them. In many ways
>> this is more a bejewelled & Zuma hybrid more than it is a Zuma clone. In
>> this way it's probably far more unique than many of the chainpoppers I
>> see come across my desk.
> 
> After that initial 15 minutes, I admitted that the game is unique enough
> to not be labelled as a straight "clone" of Zuma:
> 
>> Jamie said:
>> I played the trial and to further re-enforce the "It's different
>> enough to be OK" standpoint they did change the gameplay mechanic
>> significantly. The player "swaps" the dragon egg with the egg
>> currently in the dragon's mouth. So in essence, this enables the
>> player the ability to plan ahead and stage his own chains down the
>> line (i.e. see
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_Attack>Tetris<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_Attack>
>> Attack or numerous other puzzle games that are built upon this
>> mechanic). It's an interesting twist to the Zuma formula.... but
>> again, I'm moving along.
> 
> 
> 
>> I agree the sound effects are similar, but I don't agree they are
>> identical. Running the EXE's side by side, I found Dynasty's effects had
>> more reverb and more of a tinny sound to them. Did they literally *copy*
>> them from the other app? If so, then yeah, that's a problem. However, if
>> they mimicked them, or their audio people just thought "yeah, that's the
>> sounds gems make when they collapse" or something, then I guess it's a
>> point for debate.
> 
> Having played it for 15 minutes, I can attest that they are totally
> separate sound treatments... However, the BFG video was an entirely
> different story and probably should be changed.
> 
> 
>> How unique does a sound have to be to make it copyrightable? How many of
>> the casual games out there have "coin collect" sounds that sound *a
>> little* similar to Mario on the SNES?
> 
> Sure, but Dynasty is clearly trying to capitalize on the action/puzzle
> "chain-popper (as you called it)" fanbase which the release of Zuma
> helped cultivate in the first place. Anyone who downloads the game is
> doing so because they predominately enjoyed Zuma or Luxor, not because
> "they like dragons".  :)
> 
> If a side-scrolling platform game (marketed at Casual gamers) came
> around with a 3D rendered "Portugese" plumber who came up on the title
> screen and said "Its-a me, Martino!"... well, then yes, I think that's a
> bit much.  :)
> 
> The "Portugese plumber" example is tantamount to what I "perceived" was
> being done with the sound effects straight from Zuma...
> 
> 
>> P.S. I think that "copy mechanic, change theme" may be copycatting, but
>> it addresses valid market demands. Some people may prefer a
>> Space/Pirate/Kitten/Diner theme to an Aztec/Egyptian/Asian theme. It's
>> unfortunate that we don't always see innovation with the gameplay with
>> these, but that doesn't mean there isn't market demand for it.
> 
> Agreed with this in a previous email. I usually don't have a problem
> with the clones that do a complete "thematic change" and add/tweak a few
> mechanics. If it's done right then the experience is worthwhile in
> itself (for the most part). Again, I'm not sure it's worth the purchase
> price but that decision is entirely relative to the customer who is
> playing it.
> 
> 
>> Same holds true for first person shooters, RTS, and other games as well.
>> Sometimes it's the same game with 'aliens invading earth' vs 'space
>> marine invading alien planet'.
> 
> Again, the entire conversation stemmed from the fact that the sounds
> were exact replicas of those used in Zuma... since it appears as though
> that is not the case, then the entire discussion is moot.
> 
> 
>> I agree the sound effects are similar, but I don't agree they are
>> identical. Running the EXE's side by side, I found Dynasty's effects had
>> more reverb and more of a tinny sound to them. Did they literally *copy*
>> them from the other app? If so, then yeah, that's a problem.
> 
> It was my assertion that they did (as was the case when James Smith saw
> the video on BFG, as well). If that's not true, then they're no worse
> than any other game out there with a slight twist on a proven successful
> concept/game_style.
> 
> 
>> However, if they mimicked them, or their audio people just thought
>> "yeah, that's the
>> sounds gems make when they collapse" or something, then I guess it's a
>> point for debate.
> 
> Would I pay $20 for Dynasty? No probably not... but again, that's
> irrelevant.
> 
> I'm sure thousands of others will buy it much to the pleasure of MSN,
> Bigfishgames, and others (see Brian Robbin's "Don't Roll Over" or "One
> Billion Dollars" presentations shown at Casuality a few weeks ago).
> 
> Thanks for your time and thoughtful response,
> - Jamie
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