[casual_games] Games for women made by women?

[John Szeder]

I think the real issue is that 50% of the male designers in the games space
believe if they ship a break out women's title, that they will finally get a
date.

;)

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Hal Barwood
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:31 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Games for women made by women?

Hi, all:

Struggling to make games women want to play is a fool's errand, and an 
unnecessary one, since women form the bulk of casual game players. 
Geez, read the statistics all the pubs supply.  So we already know that 
women, say, like match-3 games.  Figuring out what women (and men) might 
like *beyond* the cliches filling up publisher slots, that's another matter.

Should we agonize over this problem?  Some, I guess, but a little goes a 
long way.  Let's not get confused.  Women seem to resent games that 
cater to men, but the truth is, many activities and enterprises in our 
imperfect world are tailored strongly toward one gender or the other, 
and aside from our biz, no one bats an eye.  Look at clothes:  one tiny 
area of Nordstrom's for men, two huge floors for women.  TV 
demographics, the same:  women watch a lot more entertainment television 
than men do, as advertisers and networks will reluctantly admit. 
Best-selling books of fiction?  Also mainly women.  Who cares?

My impression is that, as women enter our biz in greater numbers, we 
will slowly alter the demographics in their favor -- but that's for AAA 
mainstream games on PC and consoles.  Casual games will slowly go the 
other way, as more and more men get interested.  So the good news is out 
there, soon to happen, since it's obvious that women are, in fact, 
entering our biz in increasing numbers.  Big studios like LucasArts have 
always embraced this trend (as I did while there), and the small 
developers that seem like boys' tree-houses are certain to change.

Is it possible that the furor over women & games has less to do with 
games than with a fear that women won't become familiar enough with 
computers without playing games on them that they'll miss the main 
economic opportunities of the future?  If so, that seems silly, since 
women compete successfully with men in virtually every field these days.




spocilujko at comcast.net wrote:
> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> I figured Jessica was joking, I knew Dustin was joking (because he knows
if he wasn't I'd track him all the way down at Full Sail and give him a
stern talking to [or just on IM cuz its a lot cheaper that way]), but I'm
glad this is going in the right direction.
> 
> 'Cute-n-fluffy' is not it, for women. I don't even think 'Cute-n-fluffy'
is it for girls, at least these days. 
> 
> And yes while women who enter game development are atypical and not your
'average female gamer' there are two things to remember. One, they are still
female and closer to your target demographic than a male is. Two, there is
no 'average female gamer'. Just like males like FPSes, RTSes, Fighters,
Action-Shoot 'Em Ups, RPGs, Puzzles, etc. so do women.
> 
> The reason that casual games tends to fit the 'older female player' better
than most other types of games may be related to the following:
> 1. They are short-time based games or easy to pause. Many women are
constantly doing a lot of things, some of them are moms or wives trying to
cook dinner, take care of chores, run errands, etc. As such surveys had them
saying they liked games they knew they could pause at any moment or games
where they could save often, or games that they knew they could pick up,
play for 20 minutes, and leave not feeling obligated to stay (like you
sometimes are with MMOs if you're camping for a mob or in a big raid or just
feeling pressured to stay up in level with your friends).
> 2. They have relatively small learning curves. When you don't have much
time or you aren't a 'hardcore gamer' it helps to have a game you can pick
up, learn to play, and be having fun in a relatively short amount of time.
It's the whole 'easy-to-learn, hard to master' mantra. They don't want to
feel frustrated or feel like the one half hour they had to play the game
they spent the whole time just trying to figure out how to start the type of
game they wanted.
> 3. They often have tutorials or decent instructions. It's the whole 'women
read manuals, men don't'. Although that also is a generalized stereotype (as
almost all things in these sorts of discussions are) its often true. Women
tend to read the help or play an optional tutorial more then men. In a
shrink-wrap game they'll be more likely to read parts of the manual before
starting the game. In a coin-op/arcade setting they'll be more likely to
watch the attract mode (what you see when you're NOT playing the game) to
try and get an idea for what the game is, how it works, what type of game
play to expect, etc. as well as read everything on the control panel.
> 4. They don't have some of the stereotypical turnoffs for women. Although
there are women who play hardcore and love those 'hardcore games' (think PMS
Clan and the like...) there are women who are 'casual' or 'older/average' or
whatever you want to call them who don't. In anecdotal and actual scientific
surveys here are some reasons listed why a female did not buy a game or
won't play/doesn't like to play various types of games:
>    a. Too much unneeded violence. Violence for violence sake is not what
they are into. This is where you go around killing just to killing. However,
in many cases if you gave them a reason to kill it made it more justified
and more acceptable to the player. I.e. your hero/heroine has to kill the
guard at the door in order to rescue the kid behind it. If its just there so
you can spray blood and body parts all over it might turn them off.
>    b. Boobs the size of real melons. When you tell your artist the boobs
should be about the size and shape of a melon he shouldn't be holding up a
real melon to his computer screen and tracing around it. *grins* If, like in
one of the Tomb Raider games, you are going down a passage with your female
avatar and when she starts to walk sideways down a passage to fit and the
zoom of the camera makes it so that her boobs take up 90% of the view, then
something is wrong. Women aren't necessarily turned off by big boobs and
cleavage, but something that is physically ridiculous, or as was noticed in
the XNA noir scenes at GDC a couple years ago physically impossible, then it
starts to become a turnoff.
>    c. Bad box art. If they can't tell what the game is from the box or it
looks like just a romp through areas filled with scantily clad women and bad
potty jokes you're probably not headed in the right direction.
>    d. Bad game trailer. See Bad box art.
>    e. Bad game demo. See Bad game trailer.
>    f. Games purely about 'shopping, clothes, makeup, jewelry, and dating'.
Although this may work for some 'girl games' (but many of the successful
ones are not) this is not the direction to go to target older, grown women.
In fact even to 'casual gaming women' its often an insult.
>    g. Physical limitations. Many women report getting nauseous or motion
sick while playing games like FPSes. We're not sure completely why, or if
there are a lot of males who do that just don't speak up or are hidden from
teh majority who do, but this is what tehy are reporting.
> 
> As far as having women on your team making a difference? The development
team of Sims2 was 45% female with most top people in the team, excluding
Will Wright, being female (including the producer). But for the most part
diversity helps no matter what (and studies prove it - search for it at
workforcemanagement.com I believe) and even if they aren't 'typical female
players' they still probably have a new perspective to bring to your game
than you do.
> 
> A few of my 2 cents, glad the other Sheri isn't here. ;)
> Sheri
> 
> spocilujko at comcast.net
> Design, Direct, Deliver
> 
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Joe Pantuso" <jpantuso at traygames.com>
>>> While there are Movies, Books and TV Shows that have a high "female
>>> demographic", I suspect that the truly successful ones have a much
>>> broader appeal.
>> This is dead-on.  It seems to me that making a "game that will appeal to
>> women" is an impossible task.  It implies a sort of prejudicial thinking
>> that is unrealistic and possibly a fools errand too.
>>
>> In response to the original question, we have two game designers who are
>> women.  I'm not entirely sure it makes a difference at the end of the
day,
>> as women who enter the field of software development in general seem a
bit
>> atypical, which is broadly the case in male dominated fields.  Clearly
>> things are improving though, just looking at the crowd at CGDC now vs. 10
>> years ago and it is obvious.
> 
> 
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