From wchan at adobe.com  Mon Dec  1 13:23:54 2008
From: wchan at adobe.com (Wilson Chan)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:23:54 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Looking for Casual Game Developers for Adobe
	Research Study
Message-ID: <C5596BBA.8D10%wchan@adobe.com>

Adobe Casual Game Developer Research Study

The Adobe Research Team is interested in talking with casual game developers (browser, computer, mobile, or game console) to better understand the game development process and the tools/technologies used. Your insights will help us improve our platform/tools and develop potential new solutions. You do not need to be a Flash developer to participate.

The study will be a 2-hour 1:1 phone interview. As a token of appreciation, qualified participants will receive a $150 American Express Gift Cheque.

If this sounds like something you might be interested in, please fill out our preliminary online screener by clicking the link below:
http://www.adobe.com/go/gamedevscreener

If the study is a good match, we will contact you by phone or email to schedule a time.

Thank you for your interest!

Adobe User Research Team


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Wilson Chan (wchan at adobe.com)
Sr. User Research Specialist
Adobe Systems Incorporated

From aaron at tandemgames.com  Mon Dec  1 13:42:08 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:42:08 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Casual MMOs - white paper contributors needed
In-Reply-To: <7B1908F718F2FA40A459EB6C9F6E8EBC8F38ECE3F7@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <7B1908F718F2FA40A459EB6C9F6E8EBC8F38ECE3F7@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812011042y603f9caes6d2541ebb49fbf0f@mail.gmail.com>

Ugh, sorry everyone...I didn't mean to spam the channel with my reply to
Kirsten.
-Aaron

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Kirsten Duvall <kirstend at microsoft.com>wrote:

>  Do you have knowledge of and insights into Casual MMOs that you'd love to
> share with others??  If so, we're looking for volunteers to assist in the
> writing of the Casual MMO section of the 2009 Casual Games White Paper for
> the IGDA's Casual Games SIG.  Specifically, we're in need of writers for the
> following topics:
>
>
>
> ?         Business Models
>
> ?         Market & Audience
>
> ?         Overview of Casual MMOs
>
>
>
> If you'd like to contribute anything to this project, I'd love to hear from
> you.  Please contact me directly and we can discuss how you can contribute.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirsten Duvall
>
> Casual Games SIG
>
> kirstend at microsoft.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>


-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."
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From globz at globz.com  Thu Dec  4 13:19:29 2008
From: globz at globz.com (globz at globz.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:19:29 +0100
Subject: [casual_games] Casual MMOs - white paper contributors needed
In-Reply-To: <7B1908F718F2FA40A459EB6C9F6E8EBC8F38ECE3F7@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <7B1908F718F2FA40A459EB6C9F6E8EBC8F38ECE3F7@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <C0F591EA-DA83-4021-93AC-EB6528888D7C@globz.com>

We have just reopened http://www.globulos.com/ this Monday with a  
"free to play" model (subscription before)

Our change of business model might be an interesting experience ;-)

Le 1 d?c. 08 ? 03:48, Kirsten Duvall a ?crit :

> Do you have knowledge of and insights into Casual MMOs that you?d  
> love to share with others??  If so, we?re looking for volunteers to  
> assist in the writing of the Casual MMO section of the 2009 Casual  
> Games White Paper for the IGDA?s Casual Games SIG.  Specifically,  
> we?re in need of writers for the following topics:
>
>
>
> ?         Business Models
>
> ?         Market & Audience
>
> ?         Overview of Casual MMOs
>
>
>
> If you?d like to contribute anything to this project, I?d love to  
> hear from you.  Please contact me directly and we can discuss how  
> you can contribute.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirsten Duvall
>
> Casual Games SIG
>
> kirstend at microsoft.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse? 
> cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/ 
> Casual_Games_List_FAQ



From james at reflexive.net  Fri Dec  5 13:09:15 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:09:15 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Social is the New Casual: Eight Things Casual Game
	Developers Should Know about Social Games
Message-ID: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>

The Winter
<http://www.igda.org/casual/quarterly/3_2/igda_casual_game_quarterly_3_2.pdf
>  2008 issue of the Casual Games Quarterly has a fantastic article by Wade
Tinney titled Social is the New Casual: Eight Things Casual Game Developers
Should Know about Social Games. 

 

 

I wanted to mention the article here to give people a place to respond to
and discuss the points Wade makes and maybe even ask him some fallow up
questions.

 

Here are some highlight of the article

 

Wade Tinney, Large Animal Games

 

In mid-2007, my team got excited about

social network games and decided to dive

headlong into this nascent space. We've

spent the last 12 months transforming from

a developer of casual downloadable games

into a publisher and developer of social

games. The point of this article is to share

some of the key things that we learned over

the course of that transformation. It is directed

at developers and publishers from

the casual games world who may be considering

a similar transition.

 

...

 

1) Some of your knowledge and experience will apply.

Not surprisingly, game design fundamentals

are no less critical in social games as

they are in casual games. Everything that

casual game designers know about the psychology

of goals and rewards, feedback

structures, interactive systems, and even

narrative can be brought to bear...

 

 

2) The platforms are constantly evolving.

Your games will need to tightly integrate

with each network's technology platform in

order to utilize data from the social graph...

 

 

3) Social games require a service mentality.

Despite their digital distribution, casual

downloadable games essentially follow a

packaged goods model...

 

4) Listen to your players

...social network gamers can be extraordinarily vocal.

You'll also want to watch your players

by tracking metrics about how the social

features of your game are being used...

 

5) The business models are different.

Currently, advertising and sponsorships

are the low-hanging fruit in this space...

 

6) Your game is not the main attraction.

Most people who use social networks do so

in order to stay connected to their friends.

They are not sitting down to spend large

blocks of time with your game...

 

7) Social games require focus and commitment.

... Don't expect to just drop the

flash version of your game into Facebook

and expect players to flock to it...

 

 

8) But don't focus TOO much.

Part of a full commitment to this space is

taking a broad view of social networks.

Facebook is not the only game in town. The

social networking world moves quickly...

 

 

Those are some highlight but please read the full article on page 2 of the
Winter
<http://www.igda.org/casual/quarterly/3_2/igda_casual_game_quarterly_3_2.pdf
>  2008 issue of the Casual Games Quarterly

 

And feel free to reply to this message to discuss it here.

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From paul_steven at btinternet.com  Mon Dec  8 08:33:06 2008
From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:33:06 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
Message-ID: <000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>

Anyone like to share some tips on spreading the word about a festive viral
game? I have no experience marketing games like these and would just like to
spread the link around to as many people as possible within a short period
of time.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

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From aaron at tandemgames.com  Mon Dec  8 09:58:24 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:58:24 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>

Well, that is the big trick really. Viral (word-of-mouth) is not easy; you
need to pitch/position your product to the right people (influencers) in the
right way (make it easy for them to share/answer all questions they have) in
order to get that ball rolling.
Gordon Walton from Bioware recommended the book "The Secrets of
Word-of-Mouth Marketing" by George Silverman as the best book on the topic.
He claimed to have read dozens of books and says this is the best place to
start. I purchased the book and have read through the first 4 chapters. I'm
implementing his ideas as I go and I have to say that it has been very
helpful in my advertising and even my understanding of my own product.

That said, you mention wanting the spread the word about a "festive"
game...if you mean Christmas/Holiday, I wish you the best of luck...you
might be a little late to get something rolling for that. There aren't any
silver bullets or guaranteed success methods mentioned in the book, or that
I've found.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Paul Steven <paul_steven at btinternet.com>wrote:

>  Anyone like to share some tips on spreading the word about a festive
> viral game? I have no experience marketing games like these and would just
> like to spread the link around to as many people as possible within a short
> period of time.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From paul_steven at btinternet.com  Mon Dec  8 10:25:05 2008
From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:25:05 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>

Thanks Aaron - I will check out that book

 

To be honest I am not sure why I want to spread my game around to so many
people as it is simply a little game I created to send out to clients as a
kind of Xmas card. 

 

Thanks for your advice

 

Paul

 

 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Aaron Murray
Sent: 08 December 2008 14:58
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game

 

Well, that is the big trick really. Viral (word-of-mouth) is not easy; you
need to pitch/position your product to the right people (influencers) in the
right way (make it easy for them to share/answer all questions they have) in
order to get that ball rolling. 

 

Gordon Walton from Bioware recommended the book "The Secrets of
Word-of-Mouth Marketing" by George Silverman as the best book on the topic.
He claimed to have read dozens of books and says this is the best place to
start. I purchased the book and have read through the first 4 chapters. I'm
implementing his ideas as I go and I have to say that it has been very
helpful in my advertising and even my understanding of my own product. 

 

That said, you mention wanting the spread the word about a "festive"
game...if you mean Christmas/Holiday, I wish you the best of luck...you
might be a little late to get something rolling for that. There aren't any
silver bullets or guaranteed success methods mentioned in the book, or that
I've found.

Hope that helps,

Aaron


-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

 

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Paul Steven <paul_steven at btinternet.com>
wrote:

Anyone like to share some tips on spreading the word about a festive viral
game? I have no experience marketing games like these and would just like to
spread the link around to as many people as possible within a short period
of time.

 

Thanks

 

Paul


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ





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From Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com  Mon Dec  8 11:32:02 2008
From: Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com (Joe Schultz)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:32:02 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
Message-ID: <E815F07E-0899-40E1-B6E5-56E5BBF4D851@ByDesignGames.com>

I'm as tired of the buzzwords as I imagine some of you are (Viral?  
More like crapshoot!). However, on the subject, are there  
trustworthy / reliable service providers for marketing an Indie game  
as such?

So, say I have a game, and desire to hand it off to someone who has  
good contacts, to help solidify and arrange distribution for a split  
of the generated profits; like talent agents, but for games not people.

We've been doing it more-or-less manually and it takes its toll on our  
time; would rather outsource it to credible & proven people for a cut  
of profits (@10% as in other industries), and get back to focusing on  
what were good at, content.

Have looked into this a little bit, but it seems the game industry is  
still way behind on such things... and I _do_ consider charging 50%  
for such a service, as being "way behind".

------> Can anyone make recommendations here? (preferably from  
positive 1st-hand experience)

Or is the game industry still relatively poisoned by all the middle- 
men who leave nothing for the content source (developer)?

joe

Joe Schultz
Game Director
ByDesign Games


On Dec 8, 2008, at 15:25h, Paul Steven wrote:

> Thanks Aaron ? I will check out that book
>
> To be honest I am not sure why I want to spread my game around to so  
> many people as it is simply a little game I created to send out to  
> clients as a kind of Xmas card.
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Paul



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From adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  8 11:51:37 2008
From: adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com (Adam Martin)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:51:37 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <E815F07E-0899-40E1-B6E5-56E5BBF4D851@ByDesignGames.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<E815F07E-0899-40E1-B6E5-56E5BBF4D851@ByDesignGames.com>
Message-ID: <ca93830d0812080851g4bbeeb21o16d2ff8741769fd5@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/8 Joe Schultz <Joe.Schultz at bydesigngames.com>:
> I'm as tired of the buzzwords as I imagine some of you are (Viral? More like
> crapshoot!). However, on the subject, are there trustworthy / reliable
> service providers for marketing an Indie game as such?

Yeah - aren't they called "publishers"? :P

Given how much value good marketing adds to an IP / revenue, I would
expect that anyone who's particularly good at it ends up becoming a
publisher (for as long as publishers continue to exist and thrive).
IME, good marketing setups really like having a regular (and fat!)
pipeline of incoming content for them to market - and have the power
to create their own brand, at least for co-branding - so the
temptation to become a standard publisher presumably gets bigger and
bigger over time?

From thb at gameattorney.com  Mon Dec  8 11:53:23 2008
From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:53:23 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <E815F07E-0899-40E1-B6E5-56E5BBF4D851@ByDesignGames.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<E815F07E-0899-40E1-B6E5-56E5BBF4D851@ByDesignGames.com>
Message-ID: <200812081653.mB8Gria29583@dev-biz.com>

There are a bunch of reputable agents in the game 
industry.  The ones I know of charge anything 
from a low of 5% (big budget games) to a high of 
15 or even 20%.  Your problem is than most will 
not work with new studios and even if you are 
established, since the total revenue from casual 
games is relatively weak, many shy away from this 
whole sector.  As far as 50% goes...that's total 
BS.  And you would be doing everyone a big 
service if you let them in on who this bozo is! 
(assuming you did not sign an NDA with them!)

Here's a list of agents from the Gamasutra site 
to get you started...not sure how you could not find any yourself though...

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/contractor_display.php?category=46

GL & HF!

Tom B

At 08:32 AM 12/8/2008, you wrote:
>I'm as tired of the buzzwords as I imagine some 
>of you are (Viral? More like crapshoot!). 
>However, on the subject, are there trustworthy / 
>reliable service providers for marketing an Indie game as such?
>
>So, say I have a game, and desire to hand it off 
>to someone who has good contacts, to help 
>solidify and arrange distribution for a split of 
>the generated profits; like talent agents, but for games not people.
>
>We've been doing it more-or-less manually and it 
>takes its toll on our time; would rather 
>outsource it to credible & proven people for a 
>cut of profits (@10% as in other industries), 
>and get back to focusing on what were good at, content.
>
>Have looked into this a little bit, but it seems 
>the game industry is still way behind on such 
>things... and I _do_ consider charging 50% for 
>such a service, as being "way behind".
>
>------> Can anyone make recommendations here? 
>(preferably from positive 1st-hand experience)
>
>Or is the game industry still relatively 
>poisoned by all the middle-men who leave nothing 
>for the content source (developer)?
>
>joe
>
>Joe Schultz
>Game Director
><http://www.bydesigngames.com/>ByDesign Games
>
>
>On Dec 8, 2008, at 15:25h, Paul Steven wrote:
>
>>Thanks Aaron ? I will check out that book
>>
>>To be honest I am not sure why I want to spread 
>>my game around to so many people as it is 
>>simply a little game I created to send out to clients as a kind of Xmas card.
>>
>>Thanks for your advice
>>
>>Paul
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Casual_Games mailing list
>Casual_Games at igda.org
>http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive Search: 
>http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>List FAQ: 
>http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???
Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
23133 Vashon Highway SW
Vashon WA 98070
Tel (206) 463-9200
Fax (206) 463-9290
and
80 Southwest 8th Street, Suite 2100
Miami, FL  33130
Tel (305) 324-6000
http://www.gameattorney.com
TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW
???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???

?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] 
industry that everybody gets screwed on their 
first deal,  I'm doing my best to make sure that 
that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.?
Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007.

Confidential:  This email contains communications 
protected by the attorney-client privilege and 
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 
?? 2510, et seq.   If you do not expect such a 
communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please 
delete this message without reading it or any 
attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at 
thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery.
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From adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  8 12:02:51 2008
From: adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com (Adam Martin)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:02:51 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Advice on marketing a viral game
In-Reply-To: <000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
Message-ID: <ca93830d0812080902g6405f212i604a47f72c4f9c1f@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/8 Paul Steven <paul_steven at btinternet.com>:
> Anyone like to share some tips on spreading the word about a festive viral
> game? I have no experience marketing games like these and would just like to
> spread the link around to as many people as possible within a short period
> of time.

(apart from the book recommendation already) the first point I'd start
with is Andrew Chen's posts on VM, especially his one about the Viral
Loop:

http://andrewchenblog.com/2007/07/11/whats-your-viral-loop-understanding-the-engine-of-adoption/

His posts are especially geared towards the use of Social Networks in
viral spread, but the concepts are generally applicable.

Warning: he mention's Tagged.com at the end, who try to remove the
"Add value" part of the viral loop, to make it faster. This does
kind-of work - but it can backfire spectacularly, because it is
(literally) indistinguishable from spam. I've seen that work really
well for getting very fast growth, at the expense of major damage to
your reputation - I've also seen it just result in appallingly low
viral conversion rates. I would strongly advise against it.

From paul_steven at btinternet.com  Wed Dec 10 04:00:47 2008
From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:00:47 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
Message-ID: <015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>

Hi there

 

I would like to create a game portal kind of site and would like advice on
whether to create the site from scratch myself or would it make more sense
to use an off the shelf solution? If an off the shelf solution is a viable
option, can anyone recommend one?

 

I know there are tons of game portals and I am not looking for a quick buck
by creating one. I just have created hundreds (yes hundreds) of games over
the last 5 or 6 years and thought it would be great to get them all online.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

http://www.sloshedsanta.com

 

 

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From kiro.roo at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 11:07:33 2008
From: kiro.roo at gmail.com (Kiro Neem)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:07:33 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
Message-ID: <125774b00812100807h7c05acaey2b3913b27c8b36de@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Paul,
   I've had a number of varied experiences with different online content
management and/or shopping cart solutions, so I might be able to give you a
little insight.  Having written a few sites by hand Its my experience that
at the end of the day it's better to go with a pre-made system.  I think the
first thing to decide is what you actually want you website to do.  There
are many solutions that provide basic blog, forums, ect, though if you are
going to be selling things you will also need some sort of shopping cart
functionality.  Also the type of shopping cart solution you are using will
depend on the payment gateway you are going through, authorize.net, paypal,
2checkout.com, ect.  I would say to look into these first and then find
something that fits your needs.

I've used Drupal for my own site and I know it has many third party
e-commerce modules, though it may require a little more technical knowledge
to tweek everything that you might want to.  Other solutions that I'm aware
of that I've known to be used for professional sites are Joomla and
osCommerce.

Hopefully this gives you a little more direction,
- Chase
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From colin at 3rdsense.com  Wed Dec 10 17:20:07 2008
From: colin at 3rdsense.com (Colin Cardwell)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:20:07 +1100
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
Message-ID: <00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>

Hi Paul

 

If your games are built in Flash, another option you might want to consider
is distributing the games on Fizzy.com. We share ad revenue and I would be
that with the rates we get you'll make almost as much if not more than doing
it yourself.

 

There are three options:

 

1.       Just upload your game and away you go - you get 30% of ad revenue

2.       Integrate our SDK (takes about 20 mins) to make your game
'enhanced' (brings in in-game advertising, score submissions, etc.) - you
get 50% of ad revenue

3.       Make a download game and sell it on Fizzy - you get 50% of all ad
and sales revenue

 

Fizzy is getting plenty of traffic these days too.

 

At very least it's worth a go with a few of your games.

 

Head on over to www.fizzy.com/developers 

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers

Colin
CEO


 <http://www.fizzy.com/> Have you been to Fizzy today?

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Paul Steven
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2008 8:01 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script

 

Hi there

 

I would like to create a game portal kind of site and would like advice on
whether to create the site from scratch myself or would it make more sense
to use an off the shelf solution? If an off the shelf solution is a viable
option, can anyone recommend one?

 

I know there are tons of game portals and I am not looking for a quick buck
by creating one. I just have created hundreds (yes hundreds) of games over
the last 5 or 6 years and thought it would be great to get them all online.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

http://www.sloshedsanta.com

 

 

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From adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com  Thu Dec 11 06:03:28 2008
From: adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com (Adam Martin)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:03:28 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
Message-ID: <57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>

Out of interest, do you think apple's app store pricing -developer  
gets 70%- is going to exert any pressure on casual games sites to  
change their rates?

(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple rate substantially above  
what most casual portals do today?)

On 10 Dec 2008, at 22:20, "Colin Cardwell" <colin at 3rdsense.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
>
>
> If your games are built in Flash, another option you might want to  
> consider is distributing the games on Fizzy.com. We share ad revenue  
> and I would be that with the rates we get you?ll make almost as much 
>  if not more than doing it yourself.
>
>
>
> There are three options:
>
>
>
> 1.       Just upload your game and away you go - you get 30% of ad  
> revenue
>
> 2.       Integrate our SDK (takes about 20 mins) to make your game ? 
> enhanced? (brings in in-game advertising, score submissions, etc.) - 
>  you get 50% of ad revenue
>
> 3.       Make a download game and sell it on Fizzy - you get 50% of  
> all ad and sales revenue
>
>
>
> Fizzy is getting plenty of traffic these days too.
>
>
>
> At very least it?s worth a go with a few of your games.
>
>
>
> Head on over to www.fizzy.com/developers
>
>
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions.
>
> Cheers
>
> Colin
> CEO
>
>
> Have you been to Fizzy today?
>
>
>
> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Paul Steven
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2008 8:01 PM
> To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
>
>
>
> Hi there
>
>
>
> I would like to create a game portal kind of site and would like  
> advice on whether to create the site from scratch myself or would it  
> make more sense to use an off the shelf solution? If an off the  
> shelf solution is a viable option, can anyone recommend one?
>
>
>
> I know there are tons of game portals and I am not looking for a  
> quick buck by creating one. I just have created hundreds (yes  
> hundreds) of games over the last 5 or 6 years and thought it would  
> be great to get them all online.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> http://www.sloshedsanta.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
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From thb at gameattorney.com  Thu Dec 11 13:53:06 2008
From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:53:06 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <200812111853.mBBIr3829926@dev-biz.com>

Not likely....XBLA and WiiWare both opened with a 
similar royalty rate is that had no impact on 
Casuals.  On the other hand, the comparably lower 
price of casual games on these other platforms 
($0.99 - 9.95) vs the standard $19.95 PC casual 
price point make the lower royalty rates a little easier to stomach.

Tom B

At 03:03 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>Out of interest, do you think apple's app store 
>pricing -developer gets 70%- is going to exert 
>any pressure on casual games sites to change their rates?
>
>(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple 
>rate substantially above what most casual portals do today?)

???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???
Tom Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
Miami, Florida and Vashon, Washington - USA
Tel (888)848-GLAW
Chair IGDA Foundation
Chair IGDA ECQC Taskforce
Member, IGDA Board of Directors  
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From thb at gameattorney.com  Thu Dec 11 12:28:43 2008
From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:28:43 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <200812111728.mBBHSm813686@dev-biz.com>

XBLA and WiiWare similar pricing didn't...so I doubt that iPone will either.

Tom B

At 03:03 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>Out of interest, do you think apple's app store 
>pricing -developer gets 70%- is going to exert 
>any pressure on casual games sites to change their rates?
>
>(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple 
>rate substantially above what most casual portals do today?)
>
>On 10 Dec 2008, at 22:20, "Colin Cardwell" 
><<mailto:colin at 3rdsense.com>colin at 3rdsense.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>If your games are built in Flash, another 
>>option you might want to consider is 
>>distributing the games on Fizzy.com. We share 
>>ad revenue and I would be that with the rates 
>>we get you???ll make almost as much if not more than doing it yourself.
>>
>>
>>
>>There are three options:
>>
>>
>>
>>1.       Just upload your game and away you go - you get 30% of ad revenue
>>
>>2.       Integrate our SDK (takes about 20 
>>mins) to make your game ???enhanced??? (brings 
>>in in-game advertising, score submissions, etc.) - you get 50% of ad revenue
>>
>>3.       Make a download game and sell it on 
>>Fizzy - you get 50% of all ad and sales revenue
>>
>>
>>
>>Fizzy is getting plenty of traffic these days too.
>>
>>
>>
>>At very least it???s worth a go with a few of your games.
>>
>>
>>
>>Head on over to <http://www.fizzy.com/developers>www.fizzy.com/developers
>>
>>
>>
>>Let me know if you have any other questions.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Colin
>>CEO
>>
>>
>><http://www.fizzy.com/>Have you been to Fizzy today?
>>
>>
>>
>>From: 
>><mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org>casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
>>[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Paul Steven
>>Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2008 8:01 PM
>>To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
>>Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi there
>>
>>
>>
>>I would like to create a game portal kind of 
>>site and would like advice on whether to create 
>>the site from scratch myself or would it make 
>>more sense to use an off the shelf solution? If 
>>an off the shelf solution is a viable option, can anyone recommend one?
>>
>>
>>
>>I know there are tons of game portals and I am 
>>not looking for a quick buck by creating one. I 
>>just have created hundreds (yes hundreds) of 
>>games over the last 5 or 6 years and thought it 
>>would be great to get them all online.
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>>
>><http://www.sloshedsanta.com>http://www.sloshedsanta.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Casual_Games mailing list
>><mailto:Casual_Games at igda.org>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>>Archive: 
>><http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe>http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>>Archive Search: 
>><http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8>http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>>List FAQ: 
>><http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ>http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>_______________________________________________
>Casual_Games mailing list
>Casual_Games at igda.org
>http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive Search: 
>http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>List FAQ: 
>http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???
Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
23133 Vashon Highway SW
Vashon WA 98070
Tel (206) 463-9200
Fax (206) 463-9290
and
80 Southwest 8th Street, Suite 2100
Miami, FL  33130
Tel (305) 324-6000
http://www.gameattorney.com
TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW
???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???

?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] 
industry that everybody gets screwed on their 
first deal,  I'm doing my best to make sure that 
that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.?
Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007.

Confidential:  This email contains communications 
protected by the attorney-client privilege and 
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 
?? 2510, et seq.   If you do not expect such a 
communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please 
delete this message without reading it or any 
attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at 
thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery.
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From john at mofactor.com  Thu Dec 11 14:06:30 2008
From: john at mofactor.com (John Szeder)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:06:30 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net><000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com><3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com><001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com><015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com><00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <E725B35848114714925E37E92FBF7A10@mofactorlaptop>

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Adam Martin
> Out of interest, do you think apple's app store pricing -developer gets
70%- is going to exert any pressure on casual games sites to change their
rates?

 

 

No, but you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Multiple third party portals supporting hundreds of machines, OS versions
and competing for eyeballs vs an oem integrated single vendor store.

 

What remains to be see is if history will repeat itself compared to other
platforms.

 

Do not be terribly surprised if:

 

1)       Apple charges for sku submissions

2)       There will be limits imposed on free apps

3)       Apple adjusts its revenue share upwards

 

Shipping songs is not the same as shipping applications and at 30% it's a
great value for the developer. Almost too good to be true, and therefore it
has attracted an enormous amount of interest. Sort of like facebook. And
look what happened:

 

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/11/19/facebook-to-charge-developers-for-v
erifying-applications

 

What I found surprising about it, is that people were surprised about it.

 

I do not think I am a doom and gloom person, quite frankly I am excited at
how they are creating such a beautifully vertically integrated marketplace
for mobile content developers.

 

But everyone needs to go into this with their eyes open, no one that I have
seen in the ecosystem has made the strategic decision that they will want to
be the Visa of digital content transactions and push their revenue share to
3% and basically eventually completely own all digital transactions over
time.

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From adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com  Thu Dec 11 15:52:14 2008
From: adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com (Adam Martin)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:52:14 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <E725B35848114714925E37E92FBF7A10@mofactorlaptop>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
	<E725B35848114714925E37E92FBF7A10@mofactorlaptop>
Message-ID: <ca93830d0812111252y64f78e47s82001163fd31c9ad@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/11 John Szeder <john at mofactor.com>:
> No, but you are comparing apples and oranges.

Yep, absolutely. But that doesn't always matter, if it adjusts
people's generic expectations.

> I do not think I am a doom and gloom person, quite frankly I am excited at
> how they are creating such a beautifully vertically integrated marketplace
> for mobile content developers.

Still some major ****-ups with that, though - the infamous "greed of
the stupid stupid mobile network operators" struck again, and lead to
vast numbers of people jailbreaking their phones (completely expected,
of course). But one of the side-effects (from what I've seen) is that
piracy appears to now be trivial for a large percentage of iphone
owners (once you jailbreak, you've done all the hard parts to escape
the walled garden of "only Apple-certified apps", and most pirated
apps become a one-click process).

From colin at 3rdsense.com  Thu Dec 11 17:50:57 2008
From: colin at 3rdsense.com (Colin Cardwell)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:50:57 +1100
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c95be2$ff5755e0$fe0601a0$@com>

Hey, 

Thanks for not picking on me.

I actually think this is a really interesting topic for discussion, we struggled quite a lot with trying to get the revenue share right for developers on Fizzy. When you look into it though, it's not just about revenue share....

If you look at free Flash games (the vast majority of what gets uploaded on Fizzy) it's pretty complex because game developers put their own ads in and most web games sites don't give any revenue share. A lot of this is about positioning too, Apple, for example will distribute a free app 'free of charge'. On Fizzy we distribute a free app and pay you, so a better deal than apple. The bottom line though is that the App store and a web portal are very different beasts.

When it comes to download Flash games (which we sell on Fizzy), I think it is different again. We give 50% of all revenue generated by the game, including the ad revenue. Furthermore we provide all the DRM, the marketing, the customer services, the distribution of demo games, online reporting, yada yada yada. I'm not so much trying to defend our rev share (even though I think it is pretty good), I'm saying that it is not about revenue share, it's about what you get. I have to say, that for developers, the Apple offering is very good right now and will remain pretty good even if the revenue share does change.

My question to the group though is what is it that developers do want? In creating the developer portal on Fizzy, we're trying to position it in such a way that your average FREE Flash game developer can in a relatively risk free way, up the anti a bit and start developing bigger, richer games that can be then sold on Fizzy (and anywhere else they can get distribution, it's not exclusive). Anyone can sign up and have a go, where as getting distribution of your games on some other portals is much tougher. What we've found is that a polished download game takes about 3-6 times the time/cost to develop, but generates about 10-15 times the revenue (a lot more than that for the Swords and Sandals series).  Is there a space for such a developer portal? Should we be doing something different? 



Cheers
Colin

Colin Cardwell
CEO
m +61 (0) 401 888 322
p +61 2 8923 1200
f +61 2 8904 9966
3RD sense Australia Pty Ltd
Unit 8.04
6a Glenn St
Milsons Point, NSW 2061
www.3rdsense.com

Have you been to Fizzy today?

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 10:03 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Game portal script

Out of interest, do you think apple's app store pricing -developer gets 70%- is going to exert any pressure on casual games sites to change their rates?

(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple rate substantially above what most casual portals do today?)

G/Casual_Games_List_FAQ


From Striche at yatecgames.com  Thu Dec 11 19:03:31 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:03:31 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <200812111853.mBBIr3829926@dev-biz.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net><000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com><3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com><001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com><015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com><00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com><57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
	<200812111853.mBBIr3829926@dev-biz.com>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A010@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

Yes, but iPhone is also an open platform isn't it?  Dunno how much difference that would make, but at the least it would mean way more people taking a crack at it.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas H. Buscaglia
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:53 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Game portal script

 

Not likely....XBLA and WiiWare both opened with a similar royalty rate is that had no impact on Casuals.  On the other hand, the comparably lower price of casual games on these other platforms ($0.99 - 9.95) vs the standard $19.95 PC casual price point make the lower royalty rates a little easier to stomach.

Tom B

At 03:03 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:



Out of interest, do you think apple's app store pricing -developer gets 70%- is going to exert any pressure on casual games sites to change their rates?

(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple rate substantially above what most casual portals do today?)

???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? 
Tom Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
Miami, Florida and Vashon, Washington - USA
Tel (888)848-GLAW
Chair IGDA Foundation
Chair IGDA ECQC Taskforce
Member, IGDA Board of Directors 

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From thb at gameattorney.com  Thu Dec 11 20:35:36 2008
From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:35:36 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Game portal script
In-Reply-To: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A010@SBS0001.sbsdom.loca
 l>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<000301c95939$8178b7f0$846a27d0$@com>
	<3129a3da0812080658m67bd2ebai2f1026784b9081a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c95949$25a86f50$70f94df0$@com>
	<015b01c95aa5$cb5181f0$61f485d0$@com>
	<00ec01c95b15$7b092ed0$711b8c70$@com>
	<57F203B7-C4A4-49A0-B46C-035AB0B7E787@googlemail.com>
	<200812111853.mBBIr3829926@dev-biz.com>
	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A010@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
Message-ID: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>

All ipone games require approval from apple, so 
it is not exactly open...and aside from clearing 
Nintendo's lot check and a required age 
appropriate rating (ESRB  ofr US sales for 
example) WiiWare is an open platform too.

But you sure are correct that cutting through the 
clutter is a huge problem on the ipone and it is 
not going to be getting better.

Tom B

   At 04:03 PM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C95BED.119B3061"
>
>Yes, but iPhone is also an open platform isn?t 
>it?  Dunno how much difference that would make, 
>but at the least it would mean way more people taking a crack at it.
>
>From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
>[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas H. Buscaglia
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:53 PM
>To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [casual_games] Game portal script
>
>Not likely....XBLA and WiiWare both opened with 
>a similar royalty rate is that had no impact on 
>Casuals.  On the other hand, the comparably 
>lower price of casual games on these other 
>platforms ($0.99 - 9.95) vs the standard $19.95 
>PC casual price point make the lower royalty rates a little easier to stomach.
>
>Tom B
>
>At 03:03 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>Out of interest, do you think apple's app store 
>pricing -developer gets 70%- is going to exert 
>any pressure on casual games sites to change their rates?
>
>(im not picking on Colin, but isn't the apple 
>rate substantially above what most casual portals do today?)
>
>???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???
>Tom Buscaglia, Esquire
>The Game Attorney
>T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
>Miami, Florida and Vashon, Washington - USA
>Tel (888)848-GLAW
>Chair IGDA Foundation
>Chair IGDA ECQC Taskforce
>Member, IGDA Board of Directors
>_______________________________________________
>Casual_Games mailing list
>Casual_Games at igda.org
>http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>Archive Search: 
>http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>List FAQ: 
>http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???
Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
23133 Vashon Highway SW
Vashon WA 98070
Tel (206) 463-9200
Fax (206) 463-9290
http://www.gameattorney.com
TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW
???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`???

?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] 
industry that everybody gets screwed on their 
first deal,  I'm doing my best to make sure that 
that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.?
Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007.

Confidential:  This email, including any 
attachments, contains communications protected by 
the attorney-client privilege and the Electronic 
Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? 2510, et 
seq.   If you do not expect such a communication 
from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this 
message without reading it or any attachment, and 
then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery.
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From alex.ionescu at eprize.com  Fri Dec 12 15:34:39 2008
From: alex.ionescu at eprize.com (Alex Ionescu)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:34:39 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Game Design SIG Proposal
In-Reply-To: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>
Message-ID: <C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>

Hi!

Because there are game designers among us, I'd like to alert you to
the IGDA Game Design SIG Proposal up at:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfscf3d9_92f6wxv2gm

If you'd like to be added to the proposal, please write Sande Chen at:
sk8gundy at gmail.com

Thanks,
Alex Ionescu
Flash Designer
Software Engineering Team
___________________________
ePrize LLC
One ePrize Drive
Pleasant Ridge, MI 48069
Direct:(248) 543-5439
Main:(248) 543-6800
Cell:(248) 709-4713
Fax:(248) 543-3777
E-mail: alex.ionescu at eprize.com

Interactive Promotion Results
http://www.eprize.com
 
 <http://www.facebook.com/eprize>
 
P Please consider the environment before printing this email

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From oscar.oscar.oscar at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 17:20:55 2008
From: oscar.oscar.oscar at gmail.com (oscar is oscar)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:20:55 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] The Escapist: Analysts Fear For Nintendo
Message-ID: <17025ae50812131420l5b7a6109s5b4c40d087e18ec8@mail.gmail.com>

*Will Casual Gaming as a whole see declines due to global economic
downturns?
*

*http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/87929-Analysts-Fear-For-Nintendo
*

*Market analysts in the UK have warned that Nintendo is likely to suffer in
the current economic climate.*

Nintendo's shift towards the casual gamer market has undeniably put the
company in the lead in the current generation of consoles, but now market
analysts fear that this may put the company in an unfavorable position as
the global economic situation worsens.

Piers Harding-Rolls, an analyst for media business research company Screen
Digest, expressed concerns at the sustainability of the casual gaming
market. "We are not sure how the recession will affect the buying habits of
these new, more casual mainstream consumers. These consumers are more likely
to view gaming as a discretionary luxury," he said.

Nick Gibson of Games Investor Consulting, echoed Harding-Rolls predictions,
adding, "As the market has become more casual-gamer focused, then it will be
more susceptible to the economic rhythm...I would say that Nintendo
therefore would be the most susceptible."

It was not all doom and gloom however, as consoles sales over all are 15%
higher than this time last year, suggesting that, while the gaming industry
is by no means recession-proof, it is certainly in a good position to
weather the oncoming storm.
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From andrew at fugazo.com  Sun Dec 14 03:47:11 2008
From: andrew at fugazo.com (Andrew Lum)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:47:11 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] The Escapist: Analysts Fear For Nintendo
In-Reply-To: <17025ae50812131420l5b7a6109s5b4c40d087e18ec8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17025ae50812131420l5b7a6109s5b4c40d087e18ec8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c95dc8$903ed8d0$b0bc8a70$@com>

I don't buy this analyst's predictions. Here's NPD data on Wii Sales for the
month of November. Nintendo's Wii continues to outsell all non Nintendo
platforms combined and has been the leading platform in sales since its
launch. Software sales aren't always the highest but profit margins on
hardware and software are much more favorable for DS and Wii Games then
next-gen games. 

 

If anything I see publishers shying away from funding $15-$25 Million
budgets for AAA console titles. Why build a AAA game when a Cooking Mama or
Carnival Game can sell over a million units? Seattle is already seeing
layoffs from next-gen developers who are not getting as much work as they
used to.

 

Andrew Lum

The NPD Group on Thursday released videogame software sales results for the
November timeframe and while all platforms saw significant spikes,
Nintendo's two systems soared through the atmosphere, out of this solar
system and into the next galaxy, a faint, echoing "ka-ching!" left behind
for Microsoft and Sony to consider. Wii was far and away the best-selling
console for the month with 2.04 million units sold, easily the biggest month
the platform has enjoyed since its release two years ago. And let's just
repeat: 2.04 million units. Not a typo. DS, meanwhile, was the second
best-selling platform with 1.57 million units sold. Xbox 360 sold to another
836,000 people; PSP 421,000; and PlayStation 3 another 378,000. 

Wii outsold PS3, 360, and PSP combined for the month. And Wii and DS
together had almost a two million-unit lead on all of the other consoles
combined. 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of oscar is oscar
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:21 PM
To: Casual_Games at igda.org
Subject: [casual_games] The Escapist: Analysts Fear For Nintendo

 

Will Casual Gaming as a whole see declines due to global economic downturns?


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/87929-Analysts-Fear-For-Nintendo

Market analysts in the UK have warned that Nintendo is likely to suffer in
the current economic climate.

Nintendo's shift towards the casual gamer market has undeniably put the
company in the lead in the current generation of consoles, but now market
analysts fear that this may put the company in an unfavorable position as
the global economic situation worsens.

Piers Harding-Rolls, an analyst for media business research company Screen
Digest, expressed concerns at the sustainability of the casual gaming
market. "We are not sure how the recession will affect the buying habits of
these new, more casual mainstream consumers. These consumers are more likely
to view gaming as a discretionary luxury," he said.

Nick Gibson of Games Investor Consulting, echoed Harding-Rolls predictions,
adding, "As the market has become more casual-gamer focused, then it will be
more susceptible to the economic rhythm...I would say that Nintendo
therefore would be the most susceptible."

It was not all doom and gloom however, as consoles sales over all are 15%
higher than this time last year, suggesting that, while the gaming industry
is by no means recession-proof, it is certainly in a good position to
weather the oncoming storm.

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From paul_steven at btinternet.com  Mon Dec 15 05:57:51 2008
From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:57:51 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>
	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
Message-ID: <04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>

I have created a series of 4 flash games that are to be distributed as
executables via the web and I need advice on how to create installers for
these games for both PC and Mac.

 

The client has requested these games are each distributed as installer files
that will allow the user to choose where on their machine the game is
installed and add the relevant program group and uninstall option.

 

The games are all single files with all assets embedded into the flash
movies. It has been many years since I have created installers and I think
back in the days I used Wise for the Mac and Install Shield for the PC.

 

I would therefore like advice on a free or relatively cheap installer for
each platform. The PC one needs to be Vista compatible.

 

I also have a related question as to what format of file is acceptable for
downloading. On the PC side, I assume the installer would create an
executable file but I was under the impression people do not like
downloading exe files? I would therefore appreciate advice on what format
others offer their downloadable games in (for both PC and Mac)

 

Thanks in advance

 

Paul 

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From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Mon Dec 15 08:20:56 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:20:56 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
Message-ID: <494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>

Hi Paul,

On the Windows side Inno is good, free to use even for commercial 
projects. http://www.jrsoftware.org/isdl.php

Best,
Miguel Portilla
PoBros, Inc.


Paul Steven wrote:
>
> I have created a series of 4 flash games that are to be distributed as 
> executables via the web and I need advice on how to create installers 
> for these games for both PC and Mac.
>
>  
>
> The client has requested these games are each distributed as installer 
> files that will allow the user to choose where on their machine the 
> game is installed and add the relevant program group and uninstall option.
>
>  
>
> The games are all single files with all assets embedded into the flash 
> movies. It has been many years since I have created installers and I 
> think back in the days I used Wise for the Mac and Install Shield for 
> the PC.
>
>  
>
> I would therefore like advice on a free or relatively cheap installer 
> for each platform. The PC one needs to be Vista compatible.
>
>  
>
> I also have a related question as to what format of file is acceptable 
> for downloading. On the PC side, I assume the installer would create 
> an executable file but I was under the impression people do not like 
> downloading exe files? I would therefore appreciate advice on what 
> format others offer their downloadable games in (for both PC and Mac)
>
>  
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>  
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>   
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From aaron at tandemgames.com  Mon Dec 15 09:56:23 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:56:23 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>
	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com> <494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>

I've used InnoSetup many times.
http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php

It is free, small, and very configurable (via scripts).

There is a tool that provides a user interface for creating the scripts that
I highly recommend: http://www.istool.org/

We used Innosetup/ISTool for our Crunch Time installers on PC/Mac and
haven't had any problems.

Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Miguel Portilla
<miguelportilla at pobros.com>wrote:

>  Hi Paul,
>
> On the Windows side Inno is good, free to use even for commercial projects.
> http://www.jrsoftware.org/isdl.php
>
> Best,
> Miguel Portilla
> PoBros, Inc.
>
>
> Paul Steven wrote:
>
>  I have created a series of 4 flash games that are to be distributed as
> executables via the web and I need advice on how to create installers for
> these games for both PC and Mac.
>
>
>
> The client has requested these games are each distributed as installer
> files that will allow the user to choose where on their machine the game is
> installed and add the relevant program group and uninstall option.
>
>
>
> The games are all single files with all assets embedded into the flash
> movies. It has been many years since I have created installers and I think
> back in the days I used Wise for the Mac and Install Shield for the PC.
>
>
>
> I would therefore like advice on a free or relatively cheap installer for
> each platform. The PC one needs to be Vista compatible.
>
>
>
> I also have a related question as to what format of file is acceptable for
> downloading. On the PC side, I assume the installer would create an
> executable file but I was under the impression people do not like
> downloading exe files? I would therefore appreciate advice on what format
> others offer their downloadable games in (for both PC and Mac)
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing listCasual_Games at igda.orghttp://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Mon Dec 15 10:25:55 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:25:55 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <494675AB.10501@pobros.com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
	<494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
	<3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<494675AB.10501@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <49467703.80600@pobros.com>

 Aaron, I noticed you mentioned PC/Mac, does Inno support OSX?

-Miguel
> Aaron Murray wrote:
>> We used Innosetup/ISTool for our Crunch Time installers on PC/Mac and 
>> haven't had any problems.
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From aaron at tandemgames.com  Mon Dec 15 10:48:24 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:48:24 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <49467703.80600@pobros.com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>
	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com> <494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
	<3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<494675AB.10501@pobros.com> <49467703.80600@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812150748j6811e83axb25f6cbd38ead431@mail.gmail.com>

Good point Miguel - I don't know if it supports Mac or not now that I think
of it. I released a Mac build of CrunchTime, but I can't recall if that had
an installer.
The InnoSetup site doesn't mention Mac..."Support for all versions of
Windows in use today: Vista, XP, 2008, 2003, 2000, Me, 98, 95, and NT 4.0."

Sorry folks - my mistake!

-Aaron


On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Portilla
<miguelportilla at pobros.com>wrote:

>   Aaron, I noticed you mentioned PC/Mac, does Inno support OSX?
>
> -Miguel
>
>  Aaron Murray wrote:
>
> We used Innosetup/ISTool for our Crunch Time installers on PC/Mac and
> haven't had any problems.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>


-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."
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From brian at gameequation.com  Mon Dec 15 07:11:29 2008
From: brian at gameequation.com (Brian Meidell Andersen)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:11:29 +0100
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>
	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
Message-ID: <82D71800-35A5-4AB7-9468-453856487FF5@gameequation.com>


I can definitely recommend NSIS. It's free, and it can do just about  
anything, and for simple stuff like what you mention, it's simple to  
use.

/Brian

On Dec 15, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Paul Steven wrote:

> I have created a series of 4 flash games that are to be distributed  
> as executables via the web and I need advice on how to create  
> installers for these games for both PC and Mac.
>
> The client has requested these games are each distributed as  
> installer files that will allow the user to choose where on their  
> machine the game is installed and add the relevant program group and  
> uninstall option.
>
> The games are all single files with all assets embedded into the  
> flash movies. It has been many years since I have created installers  
> and I think back in the days I used Wise for the Mac and Install  
> Shield for the PC.
>
> I would therefore like advice on a free or relatively cheap  
> installer for each platform. The PC one needs to be Vista compatible.
>
> I also have a related question as to what format of file is  
> acceptable for downloading. On the PC side, I assume the installer  
> would create an executable file but I was under the impression  
> people do not like downloading exe files? I would therefore  
> appreciate advice on what format others offer their downloadable  
> games in (for both PC and Mac)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

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From flash.pros at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 12:13:16 2008
From: flash.pros at yahoo.com (Joe Cleary)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:13:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [casual_games] Question about Flex in web games.
Message-ID: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



Do people on this
list know how many Flash game developers out there are using Flex for making
web games?? When working on a game, do you build the entire project in Flash CS?or do you
just do assets and layout in Flash CS and then do the actual coding in Flex? Thanks so much!



      
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From james at reflexive.net  Mon Dec 15 11:52:02 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:52:02 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] The Escapist: Analysts Fear For Nintendo
In-Reply-To: <17025ae50812131420l5b7a6109s5b4c40d087e18ec8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17025ae50812131420l5b7a6109s5b4c40d087e18ec8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <022f01c95ed5$747f8910$5d7e9b30$@net>

It seems to me their main point is that "casual" players are not as addicted
(for lack of a better term) to games as the core players are.

 

"We are not sure how the recession will affect the buying habits of these
new, more casual mainstream consumers. These consumers are more likely to
view gaming as a discretionary luxury"

 

Wrong!  I think this goes to the core of the myth of casual games.  There is
nothing casual about most of the players of Diner Dash, Bejeweled and
Mystery Case Files.  This is no longer just a way to kill time between
activates.  It is no longer people who don't self identify as gamers.  It
may have started that way years ago but now we have a mature audience who
knows and loves our products and they have an appetite for them.

 

Maybe Nintendo is picking up some new customers who are casual about games.
But the people who pay for download games on casual portals are serious
players.  They look forward to new releases, they do identify themselves as
game players, they subscribe to clubs to get discounts on games, they budget
how many games per month they will buy, and they budget there time around
when they can finish more levels in their current game and they can't wait
to download the next one.   This is not a "discretionary  luxury" they will
easily give up especially when it only coasts them ~$7 for ten hours of
immersion, relaxation and fun.

 

Nintendo (or those analysts) are playing in a different casual world than we
are.

 

James C. Smith

 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of oscar is oscar
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:21 PM
To: Casual_Games at igda.org
Subject: [casual_games] The Escapist: Analysts Fear For Nintendo

 

Will Casual Gaming as a whole see declines due to global economic downturns?


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/87929-Analysts-Fear-For-Nintendo

Market analysts in the UK have warned that Nintendo is likely to suffer in
the current economic climate.

Nintendo's shift towards the casual gamer market has undeniably put the
company in the lead in the current generation of consoles, but now market
analysts fear that this may put the company in an unfavorable position as
the global economic situation worsens.

Piers Harding-Rolls, an analyst for media business research company Screen
Digest, expressed concerns at the sustainability of the casual gaming
market. "We are not sure how the recession will affect the buying habits of
these new, more casual mainstream consumers. These consumers are more likely
to view gaming as a discretionary luxury," he said.

Nick Gibson of Games Investor Consulting, echoed Harding-Rolls predictions,
adding, "As the market has become more casual-gamer focused, then it will be
more susceptible to the economic rhythm...I would say that Nintendo
therefore would be the most susceptible."

It was not all doom and gloom however, as consoles sales over all are 15%
higher than this time last year, suggesting that, while the gaming industry
is by no means recession-proof, it is certainly in a good position to
weather the oncoming storm.

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From paul_steven at btinternet.com  Mon Dec 15 10:17:22 2008
From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:17:22 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
	<494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
	<3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <057001c95ec8$3ac99790$b05cc6b0$@com>

Thanks Aaron and Miguel - InnoSetup looks perfect for the Windows side of
things. Now to find a Mac installer!! As far as I can see, InnoSetup does
not offer a mac installer - is that correct?

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Aaron Murray
Sent: 15 December 2008 14:56
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Installers

 

I've used InnoSetup many times. 

 

http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php

 

It is free, small, and very configurable (via scripts). 

 

There is a tool that provides a user interface for creating the scripts that
I highly recommend: http://www.istool.org/

 

We used Innosetup/ISTool for our Crunch Time installers on PC/Mac and
haven't had any problems.

 

Aaron Murray

Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Miguel Portilla <miguelportilla at pobros.com>
wrote:

Hi Paul,

On the Windows side Inno is good, free to use even for commercial projects.
http://www.jrsoftware.org/isdl.php

Best,
Miguel Portilla
PoBros, Inc.

 


Paul Steven wrote: 

I have created a series of 4 flash games that are to be distributed as
executables via the web and I need advice on how to create installers for
these games for both PC and Mac.

 

The client has requested these games are each distributed as installer files
that will allow the user to choose where on their machine the game is
installed and add the relevant program group and uninstall option.

 

The games are all single files with all assets embedded into the flash
movies. It has been many years since I have created installers and I think
back in the days I used Wise for the Mac and Install Shield for the PC.

 

I would therefore like advice on a free or relatively cheap installer for
each platform. The PC one needs to be Vista compatible.

 

I also have a related question as to what format of file is acceptable for
downloading. On the PC side, I assume the installer would create an
executable file but I was under the impression people do not like
downloading exe files? I would therefore appreciate advice on what format
others offer their downloadable games in (for both PC and Mac)

 

Thanks in advance

 

Paul 




  _____  



_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
  


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ





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From nate at trycatchgames.com  Mon Dec 15 12:48:33 2008
From: nate at trycatchgames.com (Nate Pacyga)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:48:33 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Question about Flex in web games.
In-Reply-To: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8dead9180812150948ge58bd8bi689106939489ca96@mail.gmail.com>

Joe,

I am assuming that you mean doing AS3 using the Flex IDE, not actually using
MXML in games.  That said, yes, building assets in Flash exporting them and
either having direct class linkages in the library or embedding them in the
Flex project via the [Embed] tag is the way to go.  If you need further
examples contact me directly at nate [at] trycatchgames [dot] com

--Nate



On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Joe Cleary <flash.pros at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Do people on this list know how many Flash game developers out there are
> using Flex for making web games?  When working on a game, do you build the
> entire project in Flash CS?or do you just do assets and layout in Flash CS
> and then do the actual coding in Flex? Thanks so much!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>


-- 
-- 
Nate Pacyga
Studio Head
Try Catch Games
nate at trycatchgames.com
612-419-2289
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From ricky at honeyslug.com  Mon Dec 15 12:50:35 2008
From: ricky at honeyslug.com (Ricky Haggett)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:50:35 -0000
Subject: [casual_games] Question about Flex in web games.
In-Reply-To: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c95edd$a2d1c690$e87553b0$@com>

I use Flex Builder for making flash games - I don't use MXML, just create
Actionscript Projects.

 

I use Flash CS3 for what it's best at - laying stuff out, animation etc, and
do all my coding in FlexBuilder (I'm a big fan of Eclipse which FB is built
on). I make extensive use of the ability to provide labels for symbols and
then dynamically link to those symbols in actionscript (so for example, I
would create a gui screen entirely in CS3, but label the buttons and have my
code reference them via their labels,  and add listeners at runtime).

 

I also maintain an Flex Library of reuseable code, which builds to an .swc,
and have my game projects link the library. I like the way Flex Builder will
auto-rebuild my game silently when changing the swc, allow me to put
breakpoints into the lib etc.

 

I could go on and on about why FlexBuilder is better than CS3 for
actionscript, but in summary, I heartily recommend using a dedicated IDE for
any projects requiring a significant amount of code. Apparently fdt is a
nice IDE too - I chose FlexBuilder because I already knew Eclipse so well.

 

 

Ricky

 

 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Joe Cleary
Sent: 15 December 2008 17:13
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: [casual_games] Question about Flex in web games.

 


Do people on this list know how many Flash game developers out there are
using Flex for making web games?  When working on a game, do you build the
entire project in Flash CS-or do you just do assets and layout in Flash CS
and then do the actual coding in Flex? Thanks so much!



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________

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From austin at pettomato.com  Mon Dec 15 13:48:14 2008
From: austin at pettomato.com (Austin Haas)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:48:14 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Question about Flex in web games.
In-Reply-To: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <12162.51706.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20081215184814.GB20199@bean.chicago>


We use the Flex compiler, mxmlc, to build our games, but we don't use any of the Flex library. We use the Flash IDE to create some assets, when it's advantageous, but some of our games never require using the IDE at all.

-austin

-- 
Austin Haas
Pet Tomato, Inc.
http://pettomato.com

On Mon Dec 15 09:13 , Joe Cleary wrote:
> 
> 
> Do people on this
> list know how many Flash game developers out there are using Flex for making
> web games?? When working on a game, do you build the entire project in Flash CS?or do you
> just do assets and layout in Flash CS and then do the actual coding in Flex? Thanks so much!
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ



From Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com  Mon Dec 15 18:22:53 2008
From: Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com (Joe Schultz)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:22:53 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <057001c95ec8$3ac99790$b05cc6b0$@com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com>	<C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
	<494659B8.8010006@pobros.com>
	<3129a3da0812150656i43f620f2i14ffb901f08612cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<057001c95ec8$3ac99790$b05cc6b0$@com>
Message-ID: <79C59717-35EB-4D75-ABAE-46DA6F5B572E@ByDesignGames.com>

Another vote for NSIS... everything you need for doing slick  
installers (on Windows) and more.

j


From juangril at jojugames.com  Mon Dec 15 18:53:20 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:53:20 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
Message-ID: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>

I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their games
on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as much of
an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are selling
like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are going to
have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those machines.

Thoughts?

Juan
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From james at reflexive.net  Mon Dec 15 19:09:47 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:09:47 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>

I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their games
on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as much of
an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are selling
like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are going to
have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those machines.



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From mwegner at flashbangstudios.com  Mon Dec 15 19:10:06 2008
From: mwegner at flashbangstudios.com (Matthew Wegner)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:10:06 -0700
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e68a7990812151610kca30e4bs674fb9a42d9d4f72@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure on impact of hardware demographics, but they might be showing up in
hardware surveys (most run an Intel GMA GPU, so not sure if they'll show up
distinctly):

http://unity3d.com/webplayer/hwstats/
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

I do know that ASUS has been seeking out games for OEM bundling, though...

Best,

Matthew Wegner
Founder and CEO, Flashbang Studios

209 E Baseline Rd Suite #201, Tempe, AZ 85283
AIM: matthewfbs | MSN: matthewfbs at hotmail.com
(480) 329-2566, Mobile | (480) 393-0885, Office | (480) 626-5992, Fax

www.flashbangstudios.com
www.fun-motion.com
www.blurst.com

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Juan Gril <juangril at jojugames.com> wrote:

> I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their
> games on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as
> much of an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are
> selling like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are
> going to have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those
> machines.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Juan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From Lennard at RustyAxe.com  Mon Dec 15 20:46:55 2008
From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:46:55 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <e68a7990812151610kca30e4bs674fb9a42d9d4f72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<e68a7990812151610kca30e4bs674fb9a42d9d4f72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4947088F.7080509@RustyAxe.com>

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From krosman at real.com  Mon Dec 15 20:50:36 2008
From: krosman at real.com (Kenneth S Rosman)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:50:36 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
Message-ID: <009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>

Agree with James, 1024X768 is not really doable on my Asus Wind.  User can
switch to that resolution but it is not native and does not display really
well.  I would guess that the majority of the "casual consumers" are not
aware of how to switch screen resolutions.

As for popularity in the US versus rest of the world I would say they are
selling pretty darn good here in the  states too.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of James C. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their games
on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as much of
an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are selling
like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are going to
have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those machines.

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From juangril at jojugames.com  Mon Dec 15 21:00:19 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:00:19 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
Message-ID: <86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>

Lennard, they are mostly selling more netbooks with XP installed than Linux.

Thanks Ken. How about performance? Is the Atom capable enough to run the
current crop of games you guys are selling on the Arcade? (those which
support 800x600 at least).

Juan


On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com> wrote:

>   Agree with James, 1024X768 is not really doable on my Asus Wind.  User
> can switch to that resolution but it is not native and does not display
> really well.  I would guess that the majority of the "casual consumers" are
> not aware of how to switch screen resolutions.
>
> As for popularity in the US versus rest of the world I would say they are
> selling pretty darn good here in the  states too.
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *James C. Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 PM
> *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
> for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
> handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Juan Gril
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their
> games on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as
> much of an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are
> selling like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are
> going to have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those
> machines.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From krosman at real.com  Mon Dec 15 21:36:28 2008
From: krosman at real.com (Kenneth S Rosman)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:36:28 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>

It is a little lag-y on the click management but just fine on the hidden
object. And that said only the really new stuff, I haven't done any sweeping
checks but so far I would say it handles 2 out of 3 games I try.  If anybody
has any special requests or wants to name some titles for benchmarking let
me know.

 

Also, it is a MSI Wind not an Asus J

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:00 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Lennard, they are mostly selling more netbooks with XP installed than Linux.

Thanks Ken. How about performance? Is the Atom capable enough to run the
current crop of games you guys are selling on the Arcade? (those which
support 800x600 at least).

Juan



On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com> wrote:

Agree with James, 1024X768 is not really doable on my Asus Wind.  User can
switch to that resolution but it is not native and does not display really
well.  I would guess that the majority of the "casual consumers" are not
aware of how to switch screen resolutions.

As for popularity in the US versus rest of the world I would say they are
selling pretty darn good here in the  states too.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of James C. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 PM


To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'

Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their games
on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as much of
an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are selling
like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are going to
have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those machines.


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

 

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From juangril at jojugames.com  Tue Dec 16 00:17:48 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:17:48 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>
	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86d373b40812152117w72765f7ct4af7a617155feeba@mail.gmail.com>

That's good to know. I think everybody should be testing their games in one
of these (I'm going to get one). If you are developing a game in 800x600,
going to 1024x600 is not that big of a deal. I wonder what's the actual
percentage of games being developed in 1024x768 now.
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From juangril at jojugames.com  Tue Dec 16 00:15:13 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:15:13 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>
Message-ID: <86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>

That's good to know. I think everybody should be testing their games in one
of these (I'm going to get one). If you are developing a game in 800x600,
going to 1024x600 is not that big of a deal. I wonder what's the actual
percentage of games being developed in 1024x768 now.



On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com> wrote:

>  It is a little lag-y on the click management but just fine on the hidden
> object. And that said only the really new stuff, I haven't done any sweeping
> checks but so far I would say it handles 2 out of 3 games I try.  If anybody
> has any special requests or wants to name some titles for benchmarking let
> me know.
>
>
>
> Also, it is a MSI Wind not an Asus J
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Juan Gril
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2008 6:00 PM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> Lennard, they are mostly selling more netbooks with XP installed than
> Linux.
>
> Thanks Ken. How about performance? Is the Atom capable enough to run the
> current crop of games you guys are selling on the Arcade? (those which
> support 800x600 at least).
>
> Juan
>
>  On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com>
> wrote:
>
> Agree with James, 1024X768 is not really doable on my Asus Wind.  User can
> switch to that resolution but it is not native and does not display really
> well.  I would guess that the majority of the "casual consumers" are not
> aware of how to switch screen resolutions.
>
> As for popularity in the US versus rest of the world I would say they are
> selling pretty darn good here in the  states too.
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *James C. Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 PM
>
>
> *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
> for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
> handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Juan Gril
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their
> games on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as
> much of an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are
> selling like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are
> going to have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those
> machines.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From juangril at jojugames.com  Tue Dec 16 00:29:05 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:29:05 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812152117w72765f7ct4af7a617155feeba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>
	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>
	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>
	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<86d373b40812152117w72765f7ct4af7a617155feeba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86d373b40812152129l19448ccdl64e4ef66ec09b75@mail.gmail.com>

Oh and to Ken's point that Netbooks are popular in the US too, if you check
the Amazon Top 10 for Notebook sales, 8 are Netbooks:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108/

Cheers,

Juan


On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Juan Gril <juangril at jojugames.com> wrote:

> That's good to know. I think everybody should be testing their games in one
> of these (I'm going to get one). If you are developing a game in 800x600,
> going to 1024x600 is not that big of a deal. I wonder what's the actual
> percentage of games being developed in 1024x768 now.
>
>
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From andrew at fugazo.com  Tue Dec 16 10:53:17 2008
From: andrew at fugazo.com (Andrew Lum)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:53:17 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>
	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>

I think a lot more downloadable games are going 1024x768 right now.

 

Our game FishCo (Fugazo) is as well as the Build-A-Lot Series.

 

I've seen several hidden object games released at 1024x768 as well.

 

Andrew Lum

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:15 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

That's good to know. I think everybody should be testing their games in one
of these (I'm going to get one). If you are developing a game in 800x600,
going to 1024x600 is not that big of a deal. I wonder what's the actual
percentage of games being developed in 1024x768 now.




On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com> wrote:

It is a little lag-y on the click management but just fine on the hidden
object. And that said only the really new stuff, I haven't done any sweeping
checks but so far I would say it handles 2 out of 3 games I try.  If anybody
has any special requests or wants to name some titles for benchmarking let
me know.

 

Also, it is a MSI Wind not an Asus J

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:00 PM


To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Lennard, they are mostly selling more netbooks with XP installed than Linux.

Thanks Ken. How about performance? Is the Atom capable enough to run the
current crop of games you guys are selling on the Arcade? (those which
support 800x600 at least).

Juan

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Kenneth S Rosman <krosman at real.com> wrote:

Agree with James, 1024X768 is not really doable on my Asus Wind.  User can
switch to that resolution but it is not native and does not display really
well.  I would guess that the majority of the "casual consumers" are not
aware of how to switch screen resolutions.

As for popularity in the US versus rest of the world I would say they are
selling pretty darn good here in the  states too.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of James C. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 PM


To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'

Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I think the limited screen resolution is going to cause a lot of problems
for some games.  I guess we need to stop assuming that every computer can
handle 1024 X 768 or higher.  1024 x 600 is common on the netbooks.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:53 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

I'm just curious if any Casual PC developer out there is testing their games
on the current crop of netbooks (Atom chipsets). We don't see it as much of
an impact in the US I guess, but outside of the US those laptops are selling
like hotcakes. Which means pretty soon (if not now already) we are going to
have a huge audience wanting to play casual games from those machines.


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

 


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

 

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From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Tue Dec 16 11:07:49 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:07:49 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>
Message-ID: <4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>

Being curious, does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that 
have their desktop set to 800x600 and play in windowed mode?

-Miguel

Andrew Lum wrote:
>
> I think a lot more downloadable games are going 1024x768 right now.
>
>  
>
> Our game FishCo (Fugazo) is as well as the Build-A-Lot Series.
>
>  
>
> I've seen several hidden object games released at 1024x768 as well.
>
>  
>
> Andrew Lum
>
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From james at reflexive.net  Tue Dec 16 11:51:13 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:51:13 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>
	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>

>> does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that have their desktop
set to 800x600

 

Scale down the window.

 

Build in Time is the last game I developed.  All the art is designed for
1024 X 768 and when you run it full screen it defaults to 1024 X 768 but it
also has the option to run "full screen" at the desktop resolution which
works well when you have a wide screen monitor.

 

When you run the game in a window it scales the window down if the desktop
is 1024 X 768 or less. So on an 800 X 600 desktop it creates a window that
that is about 720 X 540 so that there is room for the window title and task
bar and such. Even on a 1024 X 768 desktop the window gets scaled down.  

 

--James C. Smith

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Miguel Portilla
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:08 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Being curious, does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that have
their desktop set to 800x600 and play in windowed mode?

-Miguel 



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From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Tue Dec 16 12:14:18 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:14:18 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>
	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
Message-ID: <4947E1EA.4000807@pobros.com>

Thanks James, I was afraid that would be the answer.


James C. Smith wrote:
>
> >> does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that have their 
> desktop set to 800x600
>
>  
>
> Scale down the window.
>
>  
>
> Build in Time is the last game I developed.  All the art is designed 
> for 1024 X 768 and when you run it full screen it defaults to 1024 X 
> 768 but it also has the option to run "full screen" at the desktop 
> resolution which works well when you have a wide screen monitor.
>
>  
>
> When you run the game in a window it scales the window down if the 
> desktop is 1024 X 768 or less. So on an 800 X 600 desktop it creates a 
> window that that is about 720 X 540 so that there is room for the 
> window title and task bar and such. Even on a 1024 X 768 desktop the 
> window gets scaled down. 
>
>  
>
> --James C. Smith
>
>  
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Miguel Portilla
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:08 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>  
>
> Being curious, does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that 
> have their desktop set to 800x600 and play in windowed mode?
>
> -Miguel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>   
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From Lennard at RustyAxe.com  Tue Dec 16 13:00:02 2008
From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:00:02 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>
	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
Message-ID: <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>

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From krosman at real.com  Tue Dec 16 13:51:57 2008
From: krosman at real.com (Kenneth S Rosman)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:51:57 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
Message-ID: <00e901c95faf$5f4c6f10$1de54d30$@com>

Also worth noting that even beyond the screen resolution "limitation" is
that it is the integrated Intel graphic chipset with the shared 64MB of
video memory so that is also an impact with the newer games.

As for number of games moving to 1024X768, I am seeing more and more

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Lennard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:00 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

My gut instinct is that the 2d art would look better developed for 800x600
than scaled down - right now if my artist puts a pixel on a building that's
important... it shows up - scaling down means you lose control over what is
displayed.  Have you done anything to mitigate this or do you have any
insight as to why this isn't a big deal?



Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com
 
Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
P. July & August 518-863-2317
5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2



James C. Smith wrote: 

>> does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that have their desktop
set to 800x600

 

Scale down the window.

 

Build in Time is the last game I developed.  All the art is designed for
1024 X 768 and when you run it full screen it defaults to 1024 X 768 but it
also has the option to run "full screen" at the desktop resolution which
works well when you have a wide screen monitor.

 

When you run the game in a window it scales the window down if the desktop
is 1024 X 768 or less. So on an 800 X 600 desktop it creates a window that
that is about 720 X 540 so that there is room for the window title and task
bar and such. Even on a 1024 X 768 desktop the window gets scaled down.  

 

--James C. Smith

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Miguel Portilla
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:08 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Being curious, does anyone know how 1024x768 games handle users that have
their desktop set to 800x600 and play in windowed mode?

-Miguel 




 



  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
  
 
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From james at reflexive.net  Tue Dec 16 14:13:18 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:13:18 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
Message-ID: <037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>

Your right, scaling down large art procedurally is not as good as having the
artists make it smaller to begin with.  We would never make 1024 X 768 art
if we though most people would end up playing at 800 X 600.  We started
building 1024 X 768 games when we thought it was safe to assume that a super
majority of our users will be playing that that rez or higher.  We support
lower rez by scaling down but we believe that is a small minority of the
players.    Now this netbook issue could change that assumption but those
machines may be so underpowered that they couldn't run the games anyway
without major changes.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Lennard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:00 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

My gut instinct is that the 2d art would look better developed for 800x600
than scaled down - right now if my artist puts a pixel on a building that's
important... it shows up - scaling down means you lose control over what is
displayed.  Have you done anything to mitigate this or do you have any
insight as to why this isn't a big deal?



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From alexportilla at pobros.com  Tue Dec 16 14:20:29 2008
From: alexportilla at pobros.com (alexportilla at pobros.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:20:29 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
Message-ID: <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>

Hi James,

Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768?
This would really be interesting.

Best regards,


James C. Smith wrote:
>
> Your right, scaling down large art procedurally is not as good as
> having the artists make it smaller to begin with.  We would never make
> 1024 X 768 art if we though most people would end up playing at 800 X
> 600.  We started building 1024 X 768 games when we thought it was safe
> to assume that a super majority of our users will be playing that that
> rez or higher.  We support lower rez by scaling down but we believe
> that is a small minority of the players.    Now this netbook issue
> could change that assumption but those machines may be so underpowered
> that they couldn?t run the games anyway without major changes.
>
>  
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Lennard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:00 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>  
>
> My gut instinct is that the 2d art would look better developed for
> 800x600 than scaled down - right now if my artist puts a pixel on a
> building that's important... it shows up - scaling down means you lose
> control over what is displayed.  Have you done anything to mitigate
> this or do you have any insight as to why this isn't a big deal?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 8:53 AM
>
>   
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From jadan at gametableonline.com  Tue Dec 16 14:31:03 2008
From: jadan at gametableonline.com (Jay Adan)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:31:03 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c95fb4$d6087400$82195c00$@com>

That?s an interesting question. It?s going to vary according to demographics but I just checked out our own stats because I hadn?t looked at this data in a while.

 

Percentage of users who are at or above 1024x768 = 95%

Users currently using 1024x768 = 30.38% (currently the most common resolution of our visitors)

Percentage of users at 800x600 = .95%

Percentage of users at 1024x600 - .21%

 

-        Jay Adan

-        GameTable Online

-        http://www.gametableonline.com

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of alexportilla at pobros.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:20 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Hi James,

Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? This would really be interesting.

Best regards,





James C. Smith wrote: 

Your right, scaling down large art procedurally is not as good as having the artists make it smaller to begin with.  We would never make 1024 X 768 art if we though most people would end up playing at 800 X 600.  We started building 1024 X 768 games when we thought it was safe to assume that a super majority of our users will be playing that that rez or higher.  We support lower rez by scaling down but we believe that is a small minority of the players.    Now this netbook issue could change that assumption but those machines may be so underpowered that they couldn?t run the games anyway without major changes.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Lennard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:00 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

My gut instinct is that the 2d art would look better developed for 800x600 than scaled down - right now if my artist puts a pixel on a building that's important... it shows up - scaling down means you lose control over what is displayed.  Have you done anything to mitigate this or do you have any insight as to why this isn't a big deal?




 



  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
  
 



  _____  



 
 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 8:53 AM
 
  
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From james at reflexive.net  Tue Dec 16 14:42:08 2008
From: james at reflexive.net (James C. Smith)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:42:08 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>

>> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? 

 

I have limited quantity of data from beta testers but I do not have any hard data to share.  Keep in mind I am not developing web/flash games nor games that run in a window by default. I don?t care what resolution their desktop is set to unless they opt out of the default of running the game full screen.    Most players run the game full screen which is the default.  And most computers are capable of running at 1024 X 768 even if their desktop is set to something lower.  I don?t have heaps of data to back up my assertion of what ?most? people do with downloadable casual games but I am willing to bet my career on these assumptions and have noticed many other casual game developers doing the same.  Many top selling casual games default to full screen 1024 X 768 and still manage to top the charts for months.   And none of the 1024 X 768 games we have shipped have caused customer support issues or issues with beta testers.

 

--James

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of alexportilla at pobros.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Hi James,

Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? This would really be interesting.



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From Lennard at RustyAxe.com  Tue Dec 16 15:18:43 2008
From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:18:43 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
Message-ID: <49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>

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From Striche at yatecgames.com  Tue Dec 16 15:34:33 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:34:33 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com><038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
	<49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

There are only two issues I can think of that would cause a person to be unable to play in any specific resolution

 

1) Their monitor or video device does not support 1024x768 (extremely unlikely these days)

2) They steadfastly refuse to, or their computer does not support, play in full-screen mode. 

 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Lennard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Well, this is timely info. as we are about to start our next game and I honestly hadn't even considered moving up.  1024x768 it is then.

Thanks,



Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com
 
Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
P. July & August 518-863-2317
5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2



James C. Smith wrote: 

>> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? 

 

I have limited quantity of data from beta testers but I do not have any hard data to share.  Keep in mind I am not developing web/flash games nor games that run in a window by default. I don?t care what resolution their desktop is set to unless they opt out of the default of running the game full screen.    Most players run the game full screen which is the default.  And most computers are capable of running at 1024 X 768 even if their desktop is set to something lower.  I don?t have heaps of data to back up my assertion of what ?most? people do with downloadable casual games but I am willing to bet my career on these assumptions and have noticed many other casual game developers doing the same.  Many top selling casual games default to full screen 1024 X 768 and still manage to top the charts for months.   And none of the 1024 X 768 games we have shipped have caused customer support issues or issues with beta testers.

 

--James

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of alexportilla at pobros.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Hi James,

Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? This would really be interesting.




 


________________________________



 
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
  
 


________________________________



 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 8:53 AM
  
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From aaron at tandemgames.com  Tue Dec 16 15:40:50 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:40:50 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com> <4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>
	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net> <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net> <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net> <49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>

The only major downside I see is nearly doubling the size of the graphics in
the download. Many portals make the devs pay for bandwidth (I believe).
-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Stephen Triche <Striche at yatecgames.com>wrote:

>  There are only two issues I can think of that would cause a person to be
> unable to play in any specific resolution
>
>
>
> 1) Their monitor or video device does not support 1024x768 (extremely
> unlikely these days)
>
> 2) They steadfastly refuse to, or their computer does not support, play in
> full-screen mode.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Lennard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM
>
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> Well, this is timely info. as we are about to start our next game and I
> honestly hadn't even considered moving up.  1024x768 it is then.
>
> Thanks,
>
>  Lennard Feddersen
>
> CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>
> www.RustyAxe.com
>
>
>
> Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>
> P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>
> P. July & August 518-863-2317
>
> 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2
>
>
>
> James C. Smith wrote:
>
> >> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768?
>
>
>
> I have limited quantity of data from beta testers but I do not have any
> hard data to share.  Keep in mind I am not developing web/flash games nor
> games that run in a window by default. I don't care what resolution their
> desktop is set to unless they opt out of the default of running the game
> full screen.    Most players run the game full screen which is the default.
> And most computers are capable of running at 1024 X 768 even if their
> desktop is set to something lower.  I don't have heaps of data to back up my
> assertion of what "most" people do with downloadable casual games but I am
> willing to bet my career on these assumptions and have noticed many other
> casual game developers doing the same.  Many top selling casual games
> default to full screen 1024 X 768 and still manage to top the charts for
> months.   And none of the 1024 X 768 games we have shipped have caused
> customer support issues or issues with beta testers.
>
>
>
> --James
>
>
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [
> mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org <casual_games-bounces at igda.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *alexportilla at pobros.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>
>
> Hi James,
>
> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? This
> would really be interesting.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Casual_Games mailing list
>
> Casual_Games at igda.org
>
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 8:53 AM
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From Striche at yatecgames.com  Tue Dec 16 15:44:20 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:20 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com><010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>
	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com><031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com><037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com><038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
	<49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com><2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
	<3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0EE@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

It will increase both the download size and memory footprint of the
game.  The amount by which it increases the download size really depends
on the nature of the art and the compression being used.   The amount by
which your footprint goes up depends on how much of your art is in
memory at any given time.

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Murray
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:41 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

The only major downside I see is nearly doubling the size of the
graphics in the download. Many portals make the devs pay for bandwidth
(I believe).

 

-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Stephen Triche <Striche at yatecgames.com>
wrote:

There are only two issues I can think of that would cause a person to be
unable to play in any specific resolution

 

1) Their monitor or video device does not support 1024x768 (extremely
unlikely these days)

2) They steadfastly refuse to, or their computer does not support, play
in full-screen mode. 

 

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Lennard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM


To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Well, this is timely info. as we are about to start our next game and I
honestly hadn't even considered moving up.  1024x768 it is then.

Thanks,

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com
 
Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
P. July & August 518-863-2317
5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2



James C. Smith wrote: 

>> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768?


 

I have limited quantity of data from beta testers but I do not have any
hard data to share.  Keep in mind I am not developing web/flash games
nor games that run in a window by default. I don't care what resolution
their desktop is set to unless they opt out of the default of running
the game full screen.    Most players run the game full screen which is
the default.  And most computers are capable of running at 1024 X 768
even if their desktop is set to something lower.  I don't have heaps of
data to back up my assertion of what "most" people do with downloadable
casual games but I am willing to bet my career on these assumptions and
have noticed many other casual game developers doing the same.  Many top
selling casual games default to full screen 1024 X 768 and still manage
to top the charts for months.   And none of the 1024 X 768 games we have
shipped have caused customer support issues or issues with beta testers.

 

--James

 

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of
alexportilla at pobros.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Hi James,

Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768?
This would really be interesting.



 


________________________________



 
 
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q
  
 


________________________________



 
 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date:
12/16/2008 8:53 AM
  


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q





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From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Tue Dec 16 15:48:25 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:48:25 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<028e01c95f12$9b677af0$d23670d0$@net>	<009301c95f20$b127af50$13770df0$@com>	<86d373b40812151800i10693fa4q5f79f1cbdc269b42@mail.gmail.com>	<00c101c95f27$190ff810$4b2fe830$@com>	<86d373b40812152115u1d6ae6e2tec56271e008a8d5@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com><038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>	<49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
Message-ID: <49481419.7010606@pobros.com>

I don't think its really a question of not be able to but more of the 
effects of scaling down in window mode. eg. performance ( on lower 
hardware ) and graphic ( some blur ) degradation. I was mostly 
interested in downloadable games as we do not develop web/flash games. 
Thank you for sharing James, I think we might be uping the ante from 
800x600 on our next project. I have always kinda assumed that people 
playing from their workplace would use windowed mode instead of 
fullscreen. Can anyone share any statistics on on window vs fullscreen?

-Miguel


Stephen Triche wrote:
>
> There are only two issues I can think of that would cause a person to 
> be unable to play in any specific resolution
>
>  
>
> 1) Their monitor or video device does not support 1024x768 (extremely 
> unlikely these days)
>
> 2) They steadfastly refuse to, or their computer does not support, 
> play in full-screen mode.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Lennard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:19 PM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>  
>
> Well, this is timely info. as we are about to start our next game and 
> I honestly hadn't even considered moving up.  1024x768 it is then.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lennard Feddersen
> CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
> www.RustyAxe.com <http://www.RustyAxe.com>
>  
> Lennard at RustyAxe.com <mailto:Lennard at RustyAxe.com>
> P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
> P. July & August 518-863-2317
> 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2
>
>
>
> James C. Smith wrote:
>
> >> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768?
>
>  
>
> I have limited quantity of data from beta testers but I do not have 
> any hard data to share.  Keep in mind I am not developing web/flash 
> games nor games that run in a window by default. I don?t care what 
> resolution their desktop is set to unless they opt out of the default 
> of running the game full screen.    Most players run the game full 
> screen which is the default.  And most computers are capable of 
> running at 1024 X 768 even if their desktop is set to something 
> lower.  I don?t have heaps of data to back up my assertion of what 
> ?most? people do with downloadable casual games but I am willing to 
> bet my career on these assumptions and have noticed many other casual 
> game developers doing the same.  Many top selling casual games default 
> to full screen 1024 X 768 and still manage to top the charts for 
> months.   And none of the 1024 X 768 games we have shipped have caused 
> customer support issues or issues with beta testers.
>
>  
>
> --James
>
>  
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> <mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org> 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *alexportilla at pobros.com <mailto:alexportilla at pobros.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:20 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
>
>  
>
> Hi James,
>
> Would you have data supporting the majority of users are at 1024x768? 
> This would really be interesting.
>
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org <mailto:Casual_Games at igda.org>
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>   
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>  
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1851 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 8:53 AM
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>   
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From hal at finitearts.com  Tue Dec 16 15:52:12 2008
From: hal at finitearts.com (Hal Barwood)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:52:12 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com>
	<4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
	<49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
	<3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>

I worry about the Casual Games biz escalating into the Hard Core biz 
with ever-increasing download size and system requirements.

I also wonder about the common practice of full-screen defaults:  I've 
seen a few games that get stretched horizontally because the engine 
doesn't recognize widescreen displays -- for example, 1280x800 (most 
current laptops) and 1024x600 (the new netbooks).

Providing a windowed option for customers seems like good etiquette, if 
nothing else.

From trebconnell at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 15:57:36 2008
From: trebconnell at gmail.com (Treb Connell)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:57:36 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net> <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net> <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net> <49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
	<3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
Message-ID: <cb4b9a6f0812161257m69852171n55d2a15e7c480e92@mail.gmail.com>

Quite a few games have asked me whether I wanted full screen or windowed the
first time they ran.  That was nice, and it was always easy to change it
later in the graphics menu.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Hal Barwood <hal at finitearts.com> wrote:

> I worry about the Casual Games biz escalating into the Hard Core biz with
> ever-increasing download size and system requirements.
>
> I also wonder about the common practice of full-screen defaults:  I've seen
> a few games that get stretched horizontally because the engine doesn't
> recognize widescreen displays -- for example, 1280x800 (most current
> laptops) and 1024x600 (the new netbooks).
>
> Providing a windowed option for customers seems like good etiquette, if
> nothing else.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
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From Striche at yatecgames.com  Tue Dec 16 15:58:33 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:58:33 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>	<010b01c95f96$6b2bb750$418325f0$@com><4947D255.7080000@pobros.com>	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net><4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net><4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net><49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local><3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0F1@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

I think it absolutely will, to some degree.  Specifics (themes, genres,
level of complexity, controls) may differ but I think we're really
seeing two things occur. One is a spread of true "casual" (Wii as
WiiSports/Play) the other is the accelerated growth of a secondary
hardcore market focused on different types of, usually smaller games
(pc/console small downloadable portals). I think we'll see a continued
growth of production values.  The new customers are going to form (have
formed) brand loyalty.  These smaller more accessible games have tapped
into new customers, or old customers that were turned off by the added
complexity the PSX/64/Saturn/3D era brought.  

I don't think it will ever reach the heights of the current hardcore
biz, simply based on what these customers are looking for, but It's
going to go up.


-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Hal Barwood
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:52 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

I worry about the Casual Games biz escalating into the Hard Core biz 
with ever-increasing download size and system requirements.

I also wonder about the common practice of full-screen defaults:  I've 
seen a few games that get stretched horizontally because the engine 
doesn't recognize widescreen displays -- for example, 1280x800 (most 
current laptops) and 1024x600 (the new netbooks).

Providing a windowed option for customers seems like good etiquette, if 
nothing else.
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

From juangril at jojugames.com  Tue Dec 16 16:01:41 2008
From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:01:41 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com>
	<031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net> <4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com>
	<037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net> <4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com>
	<038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net> <49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com>
	<2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>
	<3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
Message-ID: <86d373b40812161301k77c89934xf7c2234731995615@mail.gmail.com>

I actually think all PC games should support wide screen by now, with a
different interface layout, or extending the video of the scenarios.

One thing I wanted to mention: the statistics are showing most people to
support 1024x768 (the Unity player stats for example). What I'm starting to
believe is that 12 months from now there is going to be a lot of people who
a) will use netbooks as their primary leisure PC, b) they'll be looking for
games to play there. And the people who buy these netbooks is exactly the
kind of people Casual Games are catered to, so I would keep this issue in
mind while planning for my next game.

Cheers,

Juan


On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Hal Barwood <hal at finitearts.com> wrote:

> I worry about the Casual Games biz escalating into the Hard Core biz with
> ever-increasing download size and system requirements.
>
> I also wonder about the common practice of full-screen defaults:  I've seen
> a few games that get stretched horizontally because the engine doesn't
> recognize widescreen displays -- for example, 1280x800 (most current
> laptops) and 1024x600 (the new netbooks).
>
> Providing a windowed option for customers seems like good etiquette, if
> nothing else.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From Striche at yatecgames.com  Tue Dec 16 16:00:07 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:00:07 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?
In-Reply-To: <cb4b9a6f0812161257m69852171n55d2a15e7c480e92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86d373b40812151553h497e7ad0ib4ed70c1a3235c47@mail.gmail.com><031701c95f9e$816cc330$84464990$@net>
	<4947ECA2.4090109@RustyAxe.com><037301c95fb2$5afe4340$10fac9c0$@net>
	<4947FF7D.2040003@pobros.com><038d01c95fb6$61c002f0$254008d0$@net>
	<49480D23.9020401@RustyAxe.com><2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0E9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local><3129a3da0812161240k15910b1bk5b198e1fe6ceb8fb@mail.gmail.com><494814FC.8030804@finitearts.com>
	<cb4b9a6f0812161257m69852171n55d2a15e7c480e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0915A0F2@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

You mean, we just ASK them?  That's so crazy it might work!

 

Did they ask you with a game window or a system/OS popup?  I'm going to
assume system/OS for obvious reasons :p.

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Treb Connell
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:58 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Impact of Netbooks on PC Development?

 

Quite a few games have asked me whether I wanted full screen or windowed
the first time they ran.  That was nice, and it was always easy to
change it later in the graphics menu.  

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Hal Barwood <hal at finitearts.com>
wrote:

I worry about the Casual Games biz escalating into the Hard Core biz
with ever-increasing download size and system requirements.

I also wonder about the common practice of full-screen defaults:  I've
seen a few games that get stretched horizontally because the engine
doesn't recognize widescreen displays -- for example, 1280x800 (most
current laptops) and 1024x600 (the new netbooks).

Providing a windowed option for customers seems like good etiquette, if
nothing else.


_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

 

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From george.donovan at gameagents.com  Thu Dec 18 08:57:17 2008
From: george.donovan at gameagents.com (GeorgeDonovan)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:57:17 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
Message-ID: <00df01c96118$8a5efc80$9f1cf580$@donovan@gameagents.com>

As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone got any
placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of our
mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2 launching in
March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make more, but upon
submission and its launch today it is not listed anywhere but you can search
and find it.

I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front page but I
am told you can't even buy those placements.

 

Does anyone know anything more?

 

George Donovan, Owner

GOGii 
     Games 

Tel : 506-855-4945

Cell: 506-866-4585

Fax: 506-384-3802

here.

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From chriscow at bakedon.com  Thu Dec 18 12:24:25 2008
From: chriscow at bakedon.com (Chris Cowherd)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:24:25 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <-7347004498292251833@unknownmsgid>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<-7347004498292251833@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <7f9be3b10812180924j1c452279t45d1c6d26a860887@mail.gmail.com>

I'm under the impression the only way is to get positive reviews written.

You should do whatever you can to get your players (and non-plauers)
to write them.



On 12/18/08, GeorgeDonovan <george.donovan at gameagents.com> wrote:
> As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone got any
> placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of our
> mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2 launching in
> March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make more, but upon
> submission and its launch today it is not listed anywhere but you can search
> and find it.
>
> I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front page but I
> am told you can't even buy those placements.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know anything more?
>
>
>
> George Donovan, Owner
>
> GOGii
>      Games
>
> Tel : 506-855-4945
>
> Cell: 506-866-4585
>
> Fax: 506-384-3802
>
> here.
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

From Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com  Fri Dec 19 04:40:34 2008
From: Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com (Joe Schultz)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:10:34 +0530
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <7f9be3b10812180924j1c452279t45d1c6d26a860887@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<-7347004498292251833@unknownmsgid>
	<7f9be3b10812180924j1c452279t45d1c6d26a860887@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A3456A95-4CED-430F-84DB-8609BABF30A4@ByDesignGames.com>

re: "(and non-plauers)"

I'm really surprised this is encouraged; especially here on this list.  
Sure some devs try to "game" the system to artificially inflate their  
ratings, but encouraging such behavior hurts everyone in the end.

Thinking it is better not to add to the problem.

my 0.02,

j

On Dec 18, 2008, at 22:54h, Chris Cowherd wrote:

> I'm under the impression the only way is to get positive reviews  
> written.
>
> You should do whatever you can to get your players (and non-plauers)
> to write them.
>
>
>
> On 12/18/08, GeorgeDonovan <george.donovan at gameagents.com> wrote:
>> As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone  
>> got any
>> placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of our
>> mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2  
>> launching in
>> March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make more, but upon
>> submission and its launch today it is not listed anywhere but you  
>> can search
>> and find it.
>>
>> I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front  
>> page but I
>> am told you can't even buy those placements.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know anything more?
>>
>>
>>
>> George Donovan, Owner
>>
>> GOGii
>>     Games
>>
>> Tel : 506-855-4945
>>
>> Cell: 506-866-4585
>>
>> Fax: 506-384-3802
>>
>> here.
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Sent from my mobile device
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ


From samuel at novalicious.com  Fri Dec 19 05:06:36 2008
From: samuel at novalicious.com (samuel)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:06:36 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <A3456A95-4CED-430F-84DB-8609BABF30A4@ByDesignGames.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<-7347004498292251833@unknownmsgid>
	<7f9be3b10812180924j1c452279t45d1c6d26a860887@mail.gmail.com>
	<A3456A95-4CED-430F-84DB-8609BABF30A4@ByDesignGames.com>
Message-ID: <20081219100327.M48171@novalicious.com>

Got to agree with Joe on this one. At least Apple now requires the users to download the apps before they can do reviews.

Now back to the issue to get a 'featured' product. At a recentl Apple tech talk it was mentioned that there are no system for getting featured, beyond having a good game/app. They check games/apps (Not all) and when they find something they really like they might decide to feature it.

Cheers,
Sam

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Joe Schultz <Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com> 
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org> 
Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:10:34 +0530 
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Iphone Questions

> re: "(and non-plauers)" 
> 
> I'm really surprised this is encouraged; especially here on this list. ? 
> Sure some devs try to "game" the system to artificially inflate their ?
> ratings, but encouraging such behavior hurts everyone in the end. 
> 
> Thinking it is better not to add to the problem. 
> 
> my 0.02, 
> 
> j 
> 
> On Dec 18, 2008, at 22:54h, Chris Cowherd wrote: 
> 
> > I'm under the impression the only way is to get positive reviews ? 
> > written. 
> > 
> > You should do whatever you can to get your players (and non-plauers) 
> > to write them. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 12/18/08, GeorgeDonovan <george.donovan at gameagents.com> wrote: 
> >> As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone ? 
> >> got any 
> >> placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of our 
> >> mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2 ? 
> >> launching in 
> >> March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make more, but upon 
> >> submission and its launch today it is not listed anywhere but you ?
> >> can search 
> >> and find it. 
> >> 
> >> I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front ? 
> >> page but I 
> >> am told you can't even buy those placements. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Does anyone know anything more? 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> George Donovan, Owner 
> >> 
> >> GOGii 
> >> ? ? Games 
> >> 
> >> Tel : 506-855-4945 
> >> 
> >> Cell: 506-866-4585 
> >> 
> >> Fax: 506-384-3802 
> >> 
> >> here. 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Sent from my mobile device 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Casual_Games mailing list 
> > Casual_Games at igda.org 
> > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe 
> > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe 
> > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 
> > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Casual_Games mailing list 
> Casual_Games at igda.org 
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe 
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe 
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ 
------- End of Original Message -------
 
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From chrisd at plaidworld.com  Fri Dec 19 05:15:54 2008
From: chrisd at plaidworld.com (Chris Dillman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:15:54 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <00df01c96118$8a5efc80$9f1cf580$@donovan@gameagents.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<00df01c96118$8a5efc80$9f1cf580$@donovan@gameagents.com>
Message-ID: <p06200715c5712381b5fe@[10.0.0.134]>

>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C960F7.034D5C80"
>Content-Language: en-us
>
>As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone got 
>any placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of 
>our mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2 
>launching in March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make 
>more, but upon submission and its launch today it is not listed 
>anywhere but you can search and find it.
>I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front 
>page but I am told you can't even buy those placements.
>
>Does anyone know anything more?
>


George,

Check your genre it should should up listed in there in descending 
order buy approval date with in a day of approval while all the 
server data propagates.

Its normal to only find it by searching at first.

Don't worry.


You will also probably enjoy my blog where I talk about such things

http://bang2d.com/

Including sales data etc for our first iphone game.





-- 
Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com





From Lennard at RustyAxe.com  Fri Dec 19 13:01:46 2008
From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:01:46 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <p06200715c5712381b5fe@[10.0.0.134]>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>	<00df01c96118$8a5efc80$9f1cf580$@donovan@gameagents.com>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@[10.0.0.134]>
Message-ID: <494BE18A.5010101@RustyAxe.com>

Those 3 little words get me everytime:  "Including sales data" - thanks 
Chris.

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com

Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
P. July & August 518-863-2317
5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2



Chris Dillman wrote:
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>     boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C960F7.034D5C80"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> As we just launched our first Iphone app I am curious how anyone got 
>> any placement at all? We used a unique cross promotion using one of 
>> our mini-games "Tripeaks in Paradise" from Escape from Paradise 2 
>> launching in March 09 and making it an iphone game and plan to make 
>> more, but upon submission and its launch today it is not listed 
>> anywhere but you can search and find it.
>> I see Diner Dash, Sally's, Amazon, even Herods all getting front page 
>> but I am told you can't even buy those placements.
>>
>> Does anyone know anything more?
>>
>
>
> George,
>
> Check your genre it should should up listed in there in descending 
> order buy approval date with in a day of approval while all the server 
> data propagates.
>
> Its normal to only find it by searching at first.
>
> Don't worry.
>
>
> You will also probably enjoy my blog where I talk about such things
>
> http://bang2d.com/
>
> Including sales data etc for our first iphone game.
>
>
>
>
>

From d.utian at unsw.edu.au  Fri Dec 19 20:16:25 2008
From: d.utian at unsw.edu.au (Dean Utian)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:16:25 +1100
Subject: [casual_games] Installers
In-Reply-To: <04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
References: <200812120135.mBC1ZX897460@dev-biz.com><C568350F.50E7%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>
	<04a501c95ea3$f9b775c0$ed266140$@com>
Message-ID: <1884AE72F11149FFAEA7EF56ED892700@deanutian>

Hi Paul,

Reply is a bit latish. But if you're still looking at various installer
options, here's a list with descriptions, prices and links:
http://www.deansdirectortutorials.com/MileHighTable/#Installer

 

Regards
Dean

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From chrisd at plaidworld.com  Fri Dec 19 22:11:37 2008
From: chrisd at plaidworld.com (Chris Dillman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:11:37 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <494BE18A.5010101@RustyAxe.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<00df01c96118$8a5efc80$9f1cf580$@donovan@gameagents.com>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@[10.0.0.134]> <494BE18A.5010101@RustyAxe.com>
Message-ID: <p06200707c5721287bb0c@[192.168.0.103]>

>Those 3 little words get me everytime:  "Including sales data" - thanks Chris.

Good :)

Also I maintain a FAQ on iphone game development.

Might be of some use to people.... its a work in progress etc.

http://www.plaidworld.com/iphonefaq.txt

Talks about code samples... and what iphone game engines are out there
that I know about etc.




-- 
Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com





From kat at vjzoo.com  Fri Dec 19 22:12:10 2008
From: kat at vjzoo.com (Kat Black)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:12:10 +0900
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
Message-ID: <50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>

Chris,

Thanks so much for the great sales info. Very helpful to be able to
see real sales stats when we're trying to work out pricing point for
our app.

One thing with the reviews throughout the iTunes and iPhone - they
seem to be country-specific, which is very annoying for those of us in
smaller countries. I love to write user-reviews of products, but if
they're only seen by other Australians it doesn't really seem worth
bothering.

meow & ciao,

kat black =^..^=

http://VJzoo.com
~ quite nice visuals ~

http://78friends.com
http://TouchstoneTarot.com
~ tell me true ~

PO Box 3414, Broadway LPO, Crawley 6009, Western AUSTRALIA

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/katblack | Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kat-Black/25231686087



2008/12/19 Chris Dillman <chrisd at plaidworld.com>:
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>        boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C960F7.034D5C80"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>

> You will also probably enjoy my blog where I talk about such things
>
> http://bang2d.com/
>
> Including sales data etc for our first iphone game.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>

From chrisd at plaidworld.com  Fri Dec 19 23:03:05 2008
From: chrisd at plaidworld.com (Chris Dillman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:03:05 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
	<50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070bc5721bcde756@[192.168.0.103]>

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From bbishop at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 23:06:51 2008
From: bbishop at gmail.com (Bill Bishop)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:06:51 +0800
Subject: [casual_games] Fwd:  Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
	<50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
Message-ID: <a5044dd00812192006w3ab139a1xada6c1d55860c9d4@mail.gmail.com>

i have unsubrcibed and yet i keep getting these emails. please manually
unsubscribe me

thanks

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Chris Dillman <chrisd at plaidworld.com>
Date: Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List <casual_games at igda.org>


 Chris,

Thanks so much for the great sales info. Very helpful to be able to
see real sales stats when we're trying to work out pricing point for
our app.



 More sales data...

http://blog.fieryferret.com/

http://www.taptaptap.com/blog/donkeys-and-pickaxes/

http://www.veiledgames.com/blog/



Other:

http://www.medialets.com/blog/2008/07/15/app-store-pricing-by-catego
ry-score-card/


http://www.losingfight.com/blog/2008/11/07/can-you-make-a-living-off-
an-iphone-app/



One thing with the reviews throughout the iTunes and iPhone - they
seem to be country-specific, which is very annoying for those of us in
smaller countries.



 I have a lot of private sales data from many developers on hand here.

And basically we don't see reviews having much effect on sales good or bad
vs just general
awareness that a product exists at all.

The opinion on if demos or light versions help much is also up in the air.

I have conflicting data.


 I love to write user-reviews of products, but if
they're only seen by other Australians it doesn't really seem worth

bothering.


Im going to re-post this summery that I agree with from my blog.


//////
Little White Bear Studios
(  http://www.littlewhitebearstudios.com  )
Says?
Okay, in the interest of providing some real data for this discussion,
here's what I know from being on the App Store for 3.5 months:
1.  Lite versions work, but only if you have a decent app in the first
place.  More eyeballs, no matter what.  But it only translates into sales if
they like it.  Every single time I've updated my Lite version, I see 100-200
more paid downloads per day, for the duration the Lite version is visible.
2.  There are more paid downloads happening now than three months ago.  The
number of downloads you get at #30 today is approximately the same as what
you got at #15 back then.
3.  No surprise to anyone, lower prices mean more sales.  But only if you
are visible in the first place.
4.  You can make a good chunk of change if you stay in the top 100 games
list, no matter what your price is.
5.  You will make a lot more if you are in the top 100 apps list.
6.  You make considerably more if you are in the top 50 apps list.
7.  Weekend sales are a lot bigger than weekday sales, by about 30-40%, if
you're in a list.
8.  This month, the #50 app sells around 400-500 copies per day, in the U.S.
9.  Eyeballs are directly related to sales, and are worth more than any sort
of advertising, reviews, etc.
10.  Being featured is like being handed a sack of gold.  People will
automatically love you, for about a week.  After that, it's your job to
spread the love.
//////



-- 

Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com





_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ




-- 
Bill Bishop
+86 13501269860
+1 415-691-6198
http://www.twitter.com/niubi
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From chrisd at plaidworld.com  Fri Dec 19 23:13:59 2008
From: chrisd at plaidworld.com (Chris Dillman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:13:59 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Fwd:  Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <a5044dd00812192006w3ab139a1xada6c1d55860c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
	<50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
	<a5044dd00812192006w3ab139a1xada6c1d55860c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec57221412e87@[192.168.0.103]>

>i have unsubrcibed and yet i keep getting these emails. please 
>manually unsubscribe me



List-Unsubscribe: http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games


Try again bill.

Did it send you and unsubscribe conformation email etc?




-- 
Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com





From bbishop at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 23:25:02 2008
From: bbishop at gmail.com (Bill Bishop)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:25:02 +0800
Subject: [casual_games] Fwd: Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec57221412e87@192.168.0.103>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
	<50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
	<a5044dd00812192006w3ab139a1xada6c1d55860c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620070ec57221412e87@192.168.0.103>
Message-ID: <a5044dd00812192025v3710980fn9685c574de9dfcb5@mail.gmail.com>

thanks

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Chris Dillman <chrisd at plaidworld.com>wrote:

> i have unsubrcibed and yet i keep getting these emails. please manually
>> unsubscribe me
>>
>
>
>
> List-Unsubscribe: http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>
>
> Try again bill.
>
> Did it send you and unsubscribe conformation email etc?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>



-- 
Bill Bishop
+86 13501269860
+1 415-691-6198
http://www.twitter.com/niubi
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From aaron at tandemgames.com  Sat Dec 20 09:35:53 2008
From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:35:53 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Iphone Questions
In-Reply-To: <p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
References: <005301c95704$955d5fa0$c0181ee0$@net>
	<p06200715c5712381b5fe@10.0.0.134>
	<50de9c710812191912r7f272492g321914067636a979@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620070bc5721bcde756@192.168.0.103>
Message-ID: <3129a3da0812200635p3e594ce7if7a748127978eacd@mail.gmail.com>

Great info! Thanks.-Aaron

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Chris Dillman <chrisd at plaidworld.com>wrote:

>  Chris,
>
> Thanks so much for the great sales info. Very helpful to be able to
> see real sales stats when we're trying to work out pricing point for
> our app.
>
>
>
>  More sales data...
>
> http://blog.fieryferret.com/
>
> http://www.taptaptap.com/blog/donkeys-and-pickaxes/
>
> http://www.veiledgames.com/blog/
>
>
>
> Other:
>
> http://www.medialets.com/blog/2008/07/15/app-store-pricing-by-catego
> ry-score-card/
>
>
> http://www.losingfight.com/blog/2008/11/07/can-you-make-a-living-off-
> an-iphone-app/
>
>
>
> One thing with the reviews throughout the iTunes and iPhone - they
> seem to be country-specific, which is very annoying for those of us in
> smaller countries.
>
>
>
>  I have a lot of private sales data from many developers on hand here.
>
> And basically we don't see reviews having much effect on sales good or bad
> vs just general
> awareness that a product exists at all.
>
> The opinion on if demos or light versions help much is also up in the air.
>
> I have conflicting data.
>
>
>  I love to write user-reviews of products, but if
> they're only seen by other Australians it doesn't really seem worth
>
> bothering.
>
>
> Im going to re-post this summery that I agree with from my blog.
>
>
> //////
> Little White Bear Studios
> (  http://www.littlewhitebearstudios.com  )
> Says?
> Okay, in the interest of providing some real data for this discussion,
> here's what I know from being on the App Store for 3.5 months:
> 1.  Lite versions work, but only if you have a decent app in the first
> place.  More eyeballs, no matter what.  But it only translates into sales if
> they like it.  Every single time I've updated my Lite version, I see 100-200
> more paid downloads per day, for the duration the Lite version is visible.
> 2.  There are more paid downloads happening now than three months ago.  The
> number of downloads you get at #30 today is approximately the same as what
> you got at #15 back then.
> 3.  No surprise to anyone, lower prices mean more sales.  But only if you
> are visible in the first place.
> 4.  You can make a good chunk of change if you stay in the top 100 games
> list, no matter what your price is.
> 5.  You will make a lot more if you are in the top 100 apps list.
> 6.  You make considerably more if you are in the top 50 apps list.
> 7.  Weekend sales are a lot bigger than weekday sales, by about 30-40%, if
> you're in a list.
> 8.  This month, the #50 app sells around 400-500 copies per day, in the
> U.S.
> 9.  Eyeballs are directly related to sales, and are worth more than any
> sort of advertising, reviews, etc.
> 10.  Being featured is like being handed a sack of gold.  People will
> automatically love you, for about a week.  After that, it's your job to
> spread the love.
> //////
>
>
>
> --
>
> Plaid World Studios http://www.plaidworld.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>


-- 
Aaron Murray
Technical Director, Founder
Tandem Games
www.TandemGames.com
www.DomainOfHeroes.com
"Fun for All. All for Fun."
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From rcarroll at reflexive.net  Wed Dec 31 17:02:43 2008
From: rcarroll at reflexive.net (Russell Carroll)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:02:43 -0800
Subject: [casual_games] iPhone > Ad placement solutions
Message-ID: <F4A5C544F1E64260B6E20C51730820B3@russ>

We're working on an iPhone game and I was considering doing a 'lite' version
that includes ads in it.  
 
Lemon Team has a great matrix about some of the different options available:
http://www.lemonteam.com/blog/2008/12/iphone-metrics-and-monetization-soluti
ons-round-up/
 
I had a couple of additional questions though and I wondered if anyone had
any real world experience they could share?
 
First off I was wondering if anyone had used and had an opinion on some the
different solutions out there.

Secondly, I wondered if anyone had any experience in implementing said
solutions and what they'd learned in the process.  What's proven to be the
best way to use the ads in-game?
 
Appreciate the thoughts!
 

Russell Carroll
Reflexive Entertainment
(949) 830-1903 x14

 
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From adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com  Wed Dec 31 22:48:53 2008
From: adam.m.s.martin at googlemail.com (Adam Martin)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 03:48:53 +0000
Subject: [casual_games] iPhone FAQ
In-Reply-To: <F4A5C544F1E64260B6E20C51730820B3@russ>
References: <F4A5C544F1E64260B6E20C51730820B3@russ>
Message-ID: <A06E1F9D-78CF-4AF3-A29B-C22ABFFFC8DC@googlemail.com>

I've started a FAQ at http://iphonedevelopmentfaq.com

Only 40 odd faqs right now but adding more as I go...

Sent from my iPhone

On 31 Dec 2008, at 22:02, "Russell Carroll" <rcarroll at reflexive.net>  
wrote:

> We're working on an iPhone game and I was considering doing a 'lite'  
> version that includes ads in it.
>
> Lemon Team has a great matrix about some of the different options  
> available: http://www.lemonteam.com/blog/2008/12/iphone-metrics-and-monetization-solutions-round-up/
>
> I had a couple of additional questions though and I wondered if  
> anyone had any real world experience they could share?
>
> First off I was wondering if anyone had used and had an opinion on  
> some the different solutions out there.
>
> Secondly, I wondered if anyone had any experience in implementing  
> said solutions and what they'd learned in the process.  What's  
> proven to be the best way to use the ads in-game?
>
> Appreciate the thoughts!
>
> Russell Carroll
> Reflexive Entertainment
> (949) 830-1903 x14
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
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