From chanon at viquasoft.com  Wed Jun  4 12:14:49 2008
From: chanon at viquasoft.com (Chanon Sajjamanochai)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 23:14:49 +0700
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
Message-ID: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>

Hi everyone,

I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated version on
the first page.
It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
(url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)

I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.

If you look at the home page:
http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
You might even see your own game.

What can I/we do?

If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see that it's
traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly losing tons
of sales because of it.

I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the target
demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download from a
simple webpage.

For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/portals,
they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2 I'm
seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.

Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.

Chanon
Viqua Games


From tulsidas at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 12:17:39 2008
From: tulsidas at gmail.com (Andres Quijano)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:17:39 -0300
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
Message-ID: <cc4022060806040917r20cacc23h67e0ac0c29e2f14@mail.gmail.com>

ah... the marketing!

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai
<chanon at viquasoft.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2 I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>

From andres at bakno.com  Wed Jun  4 12:40:04 2008
From: andres at bakno.com (Andres Martinez)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:40:04 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
Message-ID: <678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>

Hello Chanon

A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.

Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the  
DRM they use is "hack-able".

We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a  
double check on your partner's DRM.

Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated  
> version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see  
> that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly  
> losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the  
> target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download  
> from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/ 
> portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2  
> I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ


From chanon at viquasoft.com  Wed Jun  4 12:45:45 2008
From: chanon at viquasoft.com (Chanon Sajjamanochai)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 23:45:45 +0700
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
	<678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>
Message-ID: <072501c8c662$799483d0$0401a8c0@chanons>

I think all DRMs are probably hackable.
If you want to release on portals there is probably no way to escape being 
hacked.

But the thing is .. in this case the pirates aren't using file sharing sites 
such as RapidShare and they aren't using bittorrent ... they are hosting the 
downloads themselves and the download page is a simple html file ... meaning 
that casual downloaders who might be expecting another free trial to try out 
the game are instead getting the whole game .. thus lost sale.

Chanon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andres Martinez" <andres at bakno.com>
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!


Hello Chanon

A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.

Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the
DRM they use is "hack-able".

We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a
double check on your partner's DRM.

Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated
> version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see
> that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly
> losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the
> target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download
> from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/
> portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2
> I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: 
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: 
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: 
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: 
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ


From Rheadley at op-games.com  Wed Jun  4 12:46:15 2008
From: Rheadley at op-games.com (Robert Headley)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:46:15 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
	<678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>
Message-ID: <7749cef0806040946o22ae4c7bse3a6d0fbdbf2a0d@mail.gmail.com>

All DRM is hackable.
DRM just serves to limit casual piracy though, which is what Chanon is
worried about.

Online authentication is probably the least hackable.

Ala steam/WoW etc

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Andres Martinez <andres at bakno.com> wrote:

> Hello Chanon
>
> A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.
>
> Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the DRM
> they use is "hack-able".
>
> We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a double
> check on your partner's DRM.
>
> Regards,
> Andres Martinez
> www.baKno.com
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:
>
>  Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
>> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated version on
>> the first page.
>> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
>> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
>> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>>
>> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>>
>> If you look at the home page:
>> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
>> You might even see your own game.
>>
>> What can I/we do?
>>
>> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see that
>> it's
>> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly losing
>> tons
>> of sales because of it.
>>
>> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the target
>> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download from a
>> simple webpage.
>>
>> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/portals,
>> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2 I'm
>> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>>
>> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>>
>> Chanon
>> Viqua Games
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Casual_Games mailing list
>> Casual_Games at igda.org
>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
>> Archive Search:
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
>> List FAQ:
>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
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From sfernandez at mumbojumbo.com  Wed Jun  4 13:01:15 2008
From: sfernandez at mumbojumbo.com (STEVE FERNANDEZ)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:01:15 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <072501c8c662$799483d0$0401a8c0@chanons>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons><678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>
	<072501c8c662$799483d0$0401a8c0@chanons>
Message-ID: <E2DA60ADE0913F4BBAFFACCD835AADC70261C0B3@bam.UD.local>

It's interesting that the link to download the game says First Class
Flurry v0.9.0.0r369.  This makes me think the game was leaked rather
than hacked.

Looking at the bottom of the page I see their weak legal shield, because
they say Shareware at the top of the page.

"This document is provided to try out, please delete in 24 hours after
finishing try out, if have problem to please upforumsay, I will reply as
soon as possible"

The server resides in China.  The Russian market is just as bad about
leaks and posting the game.

Just my $.02 to the conversation.

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Chanon Sajjamanochai
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:46 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!

I think all DRMs are probably hackable.
If you want to release on portals there is probably no way to escape
being 
hacked.

But the thing is .. in this case the pirates aren't using file sharing
sites 
such as RapidShare and they aren't using bittorrent ... they are hosting
the 
downloads themselves and the download page is a simple html file ...
meaning 
that casual downloaders who might be expecting another free trial to try
out 
the game are instead getting the whole game .. thus lost sale.

Chanon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andres Martinez" <andres at bakno.com>
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!


Hello Chanon

A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.

Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the
DRM they use is "hack-able".

We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a
double check on your partner's DRM.

Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated
> version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see
> that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly
> losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the
> target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download
> from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/
> portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2
> I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: 
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: 
>
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: 
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: 
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q


From Striche at yatecgames.com  Wed Jun  4 13:04:25 2008
From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:04:25 -0500
Subject: [casual_games] [BULK]  Re:  Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <E2DA60ADE0913F4BBAFFACCD835AADC70261C0B3@bam.UD.local>
Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0909B1C9@SBS0001.sbsdom.local>

In my experience, the game usually get's hacked first from a beta or
preview version of some type.

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of STEVE FERNANDEZ
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:01 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [BULK] Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
Importance: Low

It's interesting that the link to download the game says First Class
Flurry v0.9.0.0r369.  This makes me think the game was leaked rather
than hacked.

Looking at the bottom of the page I see their weak legal shield, because
they say Shareware at the top of the page.

"This document is provided to try out, please delete in 24 hours after
finishing try out, if have problem to please upforumsay, I will reply as
soon as possible"

The server resides in China.  The Russian market is just as bad about
leaks and posting the game.

Just my $.02 to the conversation.

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Chanon Sajjamanochai
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:46 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!

I think all DRMs are probably hackable.
If you want to release on portals there is probably no way to escape
being 
hacked.

But the thing is .. in this case the pirates aren't using file sharing
sites 
such as RapidShare and they aren't using bittorrent ... they are hosting
the 
downloads themselves and the download page is a simple html file ...
meaning 
that casual downloaders who might be expecting another free trial to try
out 
the game are instead getting the whole game .. thus lost sale.

Chanon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andres Martinez" <andres at bakno.com>
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!


Hello Chanon

A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.

Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the
DRM they use is "hack-able".

We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a
double check on your partner's DRM.

Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated
> version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see
> that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly
> losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the
> target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download
> from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/
> portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2
> I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: 
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: 
>
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: 
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: 
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Wed Jun  4 13:25:37 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:25:37 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <4846C52B.3050907@pobros.com>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
	<4846C52B.3050907@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <4846D011.5090606@pobros.com>

Realistically there isn't anything you can do to stop it. What seems 
more alarming is when publisher evaluation copies make p2p rounds way 
before the official publish date. I believe that the majority of those 
using pirated copies were most likely not going to purchase the game 
anyway, so I doubt they are 'lost sales'. I also doubt that the average 
casual game customer purchasing from a portal knows how to or is 
interested in acquiring pirated games. Heck one can almost argue that 
piracy can benefit the success of software ( Microsoft? ). And while we 
are at it, let me mention that any anti-piracy scheme can be defeated. 
It's OK to have some level of protection but there is definitely 
diminishing returns on that investment ( Blue-Ray? iPhone? HD-DVD? Vist 
DRM? )

-Miguel

From strictfoo-games at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 17:08:16 2008
From: strictfoo-games at yahoo.com (strictfoo-games at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:08:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
Message-ID: <1184.69154.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

We had this problem when one of our games was first released. DMCA notices took down a number of them, since many of these pirate sites use places like megaupload or other free uploading sites, a number of which have nice DMCA links at the very bottom of each page.

The least receptive company I dealt with was Google. A couple of the sites were also using Google adsense and/or hosted on one of Google's blog hosting services, which violates Google's TOS on a number of levels. But they didn't seem to take it too seriously and I don't think they ever did a thing. "Do no evil" indeed.

Unfortunately, it looks like this is a Chinese site and all of its download servers are also in China, so they're not going to care about a DMCA takedown notice. But, if you're in the mood, contact AdBrite, (http://www.adbrite.com/mb/contact_us.php ), since they use them as their ad provider, and I'm assuming that AdBrite's TOS doesn't allow sites with pirated games (their rules and policies are here: http://help.adbrite.com/index.php?action=show&cat=2 - review them and then tell AdBrite how the site is violating AdBrite's stated policies). If you can't get them to take your content, at least you can try and hinder them in other ways.

Eric Brandel

From legal at casual.ru  Thu Jun  5 00:07:25 2008
From: legal at casual.ru (Sergei Avetikov)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:07:25 +0400
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <E2DA60ADE0913F4BBAFFACCD835AADC70261C0B3@bam.UD.local>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons><678B1AE3-DEEF-4180-AE29-CB4D328D1F79@bakno.com>	<072501c8c662$799483d0$0401a8c0@chanons>
	<E2DA60ADE0913F4BBAFFACCD835AADC70261C0B3@bam.UD.local>
Message-ID: <004e01c8c6c1$a9a43d40$fcecb7c0$@ru>

> The server resides in China.  The Russian market is just as bad about
leaks and posting the game.

Greetings, Steve! 

Please don't mess China and Russia in all in one for the scope of piracy.
Main problem for chinese market is a huge audience with small paying
capacity. These type of players will never pay for the game - they are not
able to. 
For Russia and Russian-speaking countries we may split audience in two
parts: "expert players" (which obviously means "not casual") with above the
middle skills in PC or Internet and common "typical casual" audience, just
like in US or Europe. These two groups will never be the same - "experts"
will always hacks games (they will never pay in any way and they hacks for
fun and reputation in their societies), and "casuals" will continue to
download games from well-known places (thanks to internet ads) and pay for
it (they are afraid of any "negative effects" (viruses, troyans, system
crashes) related to the hacked software).    

Besides of it, sometimes more practicably not to stop inappropriate
distribution (in most cases - subject to extra expenses and time to spend)
but to provide more benefits to the right-minded users. 

I guess most of cases you can (can you?) describe about leaks in Russian
market are coming not from local distributors or localization offices but
out of never ending worldwide DRM and anti DRM combat. Every DRM system is
hack able - just a question of money or time. 
      

Sincerely,
Sergei Avetikov
IT Territory, LLC

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of STEVE FERNANDEZ
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:01 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!

It's interesting that the link to download the game says First Class
Flurry v0.9.0.0r369.  This makes me think the game was leaked rather
than hacked.

Looking at the bottom of the page I see their weak legal shield, because
they say Shareware at the top of the page.

"This document is provided to try out, please delete in 24 hours after
finishing try out, if have problem to please upforumsay, I will reply as
soon as possible"

The server resides in China.  The Russian market is just as bad about
leaks and posting the game.

Just my $.02 to the conversation.

-----Original Message-----
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Chanon Sajjamanochai
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:46 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!

I think all DRMs are probably hackable.
If you want to release on portals there is probably no way to escape
being 
hacked.

But the thing is .. in this case the pirates aren't using file sharing
sites 
such as RapidShare and they aren't using bittorrent ... they are hosting
the 
downloads themselves and the download page is a simple html file ...
meaning 
that casual downloaders who might be expecting another free trial to try
out 
the game are instead getting the whole game .. thus lost sale.

Chanon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andres Martinez" <andres at bakno.com>
To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" <casual_games at igda.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!


Hello Chanon

A robust DRM system is the best defense against such threat.

Recently we signed a distribution deal with a portal, but we found the
DRM they use is "hack-able".

We prefer to keep the name of the portal, but I suggest you make a
double check on your partner's DRM.

Regards,
Andres Martinez
www.baKno.com

On Jun 4, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Chanon Sajjamanochai wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm running into a very bad piracy problem with our latest game.
> The google search results for First Class Flurry has a pirated
> version on
> the first page.
> It is not a torrent site but a page with a direct download link:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / games / 1435 . htm
> (url obfuscated, replace dot with . and remove spaces)
>
> I fear that I might be losing tons of sales because of this.
>
> If you look at the home page:
> http:// gamyy dot com / english / index . htm
> You might even see your own game.
>
> What can I/we do?
>
> If you look at the alexa traffic history of this site you will see
> that it's
> traffic is increasing very rapidly - meaning we're all possibly
> losing tons
> of sales because of it.
>
> I think this is a lot worse than torrent sites, because I think the
> target
> demographic doesn't use bittorrent. This is just a simple download
> from a
> simple webpage.
>
> For me, I hope that as First Class Flurry goes up on more sites/
> portals,
> they will help push this page down. But even for Dream Chronicles 2
> I'm
> seeing the gamyy page of it on only the 4th google search result page.
>
> Thanks for reading and I'd love to hear your ideas.
>
> Chanon
> Viqua Games
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: 
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: 
>
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search: 
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ: 
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA
Q

_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
Archive Search:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
List FAQ:
http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

__________ NOD32 3158 (20080604) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com



From Rheadley at op-games.com  Thu Jun  5 18:16:03 2008
From: Rheadley at op-games.com (Robert Headley)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 18:16:03 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>
Message-ID: <7749cef0806051516w6b8bce02ie2235404437bb37d@mail.gmail.com>

The way that google pagerank works, is it lists results in the order of most
linking pages.

Right now, that page is on the second page of google results. MOST people
aren't going to look past the first or second page. Expert users will, but
they would be able to pirate your game anyways. Get your game listed on more
blogs/forums/portals and it will lower their results even further.

I think this is probably the best quick fix.

Of course, when I say get it listed, please remember that google bombing =
bad
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From bryanw at xmission.com  Thu Jun  5 21:17:35 2008
From: bryanw at xmission.com (Bryan Wagstaff)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:17:35 -0600
Subject: [casual_games] Big piracy problem!
In-Reply-To: <4846D011.5090606@pobros.com>
References: <00f001c8c65e$20128810$0401a8c0@chanons>	<4846C52B.3050907@pobros.com>
	<4846D011.5090606@pobros.com>
Message-ID: <007e01c8c773$1ab93150$502b93f0$@com>

>> What seems more alarming is when publisher evaluation copies make p2p
rounds way before the official publish date.

Our solution was to stick some graphical text on the front-end background
images customized for each reviewer:  "EVALUATION COPY FOR: COMPANY X".  We
used unlock keys containing the name of the company.

We haven't found any of those leaked.  If we ever discovered a leaked
reviewer build, the source would be easy to track. I'm quite sure that any
publisher/reviewer would hate the publicity after their custom build
appeared in the wild.


From martine at kezos.com  Sun Jun 15 22:34:46 2008
From: martine at kezos.com (Martine Parry)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 03:34:46 +0100
Subject: [casual_games] Conference in London 9th July
Message-ID: <00f901c8cf59$8beb6d00$0200a8c0@Desktop>

Hi Guys, we are running the Monetise Web 2.0 & Social Networks conference on
9th July in London as part of the Visual Web Convention and I thought I'd
mention it for 2 reasons: 1. I'd like to have folks' view of the market for
us to feed these factors into the panel discussions and 2. to give you a
chance to come along if you'd like (we still have some speaker options). The
conference is monetizing all 3 areas of casual games, brands and widgets/
gadgets, with social networks/platforms.

www.viswebconvention.com/pages/schedule.htm

So to thank you guys, we would like to offer a 20% discount on registering
online. Get back to me for the unlock code. 

Thanks and look forward to hearing from you. Best wishes, Martine

APPLY GROUP
Martine Parry
Commercial Director
martine at applygroup.com
UK
tel: 0845 838 1989 
mobile: 07788 191252 




From marcelo at luminisland.com  Mon Jun 16 15:01:51 2008
From: marcelo at luminisland.com (Marcelo Jenisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:01:51 -0300
Subject: [casual_games] Advances and Funding
Message-ID: <6e9e94940806161201s312be8e2hdb989b9117545cb1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We have several casual games in mind, one of them has the game design
document already finished and the other one nearing completion. We heard
that some publishers will sometimes offer advances or fund the project based
on this document. Our problem right now is that without being able to hire
someone, we depend on other people's free time to move the project forward.

Has any of you here ever try this, or actually got an advance from a
publisher? How does it work, and who do I have to contact to go after this?

I would appreciate any help on this matter, a list of publishers who offer
advances, some hints or even offers.

Thanks in advance,
Marcelo Jenisch
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From john at mofactor.com  Mon Jun 16 15:30:16 2008
From: john at mofactor.com (John Szeder)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:30:16 -0700
Subject: [casual_games] Advances and Funding
In-Reply-To: <6e9e94940806161201s312be8e2hdb989b9117545cb1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9e94940806161201s312be8e2hdb989b9117545cb1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004301c8cfe7$67c7ee10$7401a8c0@mofactorlaptop>

I would get a playable demo first, it increases your leverage.

Try to have really beautiful art for at least one level.

Some people cannot look past the graphics to assess the merits of the
mechanics and fun.

 

And never tell people your developers are volunteers and not hired. You
should position it as "the team is focusing on revenue generating activities
in the near term, but ready to start full time within 3-4 days of an
agreement".

 

Half of the casual games publishers have people reading this list looking
for developers or ideas.

 

Your mileage may vary. But the less money I have taken from a publisher on a
game, the more money I have made with that game over its lifetime.

 

  _____  

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Marcelo Jenisch
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:02 PM
To: Casual_Games at igda.org
Subject: [casual_games] Advances and Funding

 

Hello,

We have several casual games in mind, one of them has the game design
document already finished and the other one nearing completion. We heard
that some publishers will sometimes offer advances or fund the project based
on this document. Our problem right now is that without being able to hire
someone, we depend on other people's free time to move the project forward. 

Has any of you here ever try this, or actually got an advance from a
publisher? How does it work, and who do I have to contact to go after this?

I would appreciate any help on this matter, a list of publishers who offer
advances, some hints or even offers.

Thanks in advance,
Marcelo Jenisch

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From marcelo at luminisland.com  Mon Jun 16 20:02:24 2008
From: marcelo at luminisland.com (Marcelo Jenisch)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:02:24 -0300
Subject: [casual_games] Advances and Funding
In-Reply-To: <004301c8cfe7$67c7ee10$7401a8c0@mofactorlaptop>
References: <6e9e94940806161201s312be8e2hdb989b9117545cb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<004301c8cfe7$67c7ee10$7401a8c0@mofactorlaptop>
Message-ID: <6e9e94940806161702y3b0c16bcr1247876018ef4b44@mail.gmail.com>

I do like your wording better. Thank you for all the suggestions John.

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:30 PM, John Szeder <john at mofactor.com> wrote:

>  I would get a playable demo first, it increases your leverage.
>
> Try to have really beautiful art for at least one level.
>
> Some people cannot look past the graphics to assess the merits of the
> mechanics and fun.
>
>
>
> And never tell people your developers are volunteers and not hired. You
> should position it as "the team is focusing on revenue generating activities
> in the near term, but ready to start full time within 3-4 days of an
> agreement".
>
>
>
> Half of the casual games publishers have people reading this list looking
> for developers or ideas.
>
>
>
> Your mileage may vary? But the less money I have taken from a publisher on
> a game, the more money I have made with that game over its lifetime.
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:
> casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Marcelo Jenisch
> *Sent:* Monday, June 16, 2008 12:02 PM
> *To:* Casual_Games at igda.org
> *Subject:* [casual_games] Advances and Funding
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> We have several casual games in mind, one of them has the game design
> document already finished and the other one nearing completion. We heard
> that some publishers will sometimes offer advances or fund the project based
> on this document. Our problem right now is that without being able to hire
> someone, we depend on other people's free time to move the project forward.
>
> Has any of you here ever try this, or actually got an advance from a
> publisher? How does it work, and who do I have to contact to go after this?
>
> I would appreciate any help on this matter, a list of publishers who offer
> advances, some hints or even offers.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Marcelo Jenisch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search:
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ:
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ
>
>
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From cglist at fantazm.com  Fri Jun 20 04:04:08 2008
From: cglist at fantazm.com (Gert-Jan Brok)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:08 +0200
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
Message-ID: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>

In a search for the holy grail of browser based game engines. It always 
seems that they stay in a niche.
Flash managed to grab the major part of the market, even surpassing it's 
(then superior) brother Director (shockwave).
Wild Tangent has turned more towards consoles, Virtools is only getting 
picked up slowely, Otoy (I was impressed by the 2006 presentation at the 
GDC) hasn't made any announcement since (buy out?). Anark isn't really 
suited well for online games. Adobe is working on their new version of 
Flash, that has hardware support and the ability to create extensions or 
code entire projects in C++. But it isn't here yet.
But it seems that here in the Netherlands we've got a company that is 
not only developing a great 3D online platform. But is also specifically 
aimed at and supporting game developers. I spoke with them and they are 
really passionate about their product. I would suggest to check out 
there site and register for the beta http://www.kalydo.com/

Does anyone here know of any other platforms out there that are serious 
about bringing good quality 3D games to the browser?

Gert-Jan Brok
Fantazm


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From Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com  Fri Jun 20 05:27:38 2008
From: Joe.Schultz at ByDesignGames.com (Joe Schultz)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:27:38 +0200
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
Message-ID: <A06C1ADC-1D99-41D8-837B-03FE6FCD66D3@ByDesignGames.com>

Having used the a fair majority of on & offline 3D engines over the  
years (high & low end), in terms of accessibility, value & workflow, I  
can say without a doubt the cream of the crop is Unity (http:/www.unity3d.com 
) made by the wonderful folks at Unity Technologies.

Not only is the workflow the most advanced I've seen, the company open  
& friendly, the community equally open & friendly, but Unity's web  
support is sublime. As well, it does what you want and then some;  
build your game for web, pc, mac, and with special license, wii &  
iphone (iphone coming "soon").

Having said goodbye to draconian license fees (as with some "other"  
engines ::cough cough::) Unity is our engine of choice here at  
ByDesign and have not regretted the decision a single day.

Hope this helps,

j

Joe Schultz
Game Director
ByDesign Games
jhttp://www.bydesigngames.com



On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:04h, Gert-Jan Brok wrote:

> In a search for the holy grail of browser based game engines. It  
> always seems that they stay in a niche.
> Flash managed to grab the major part of the market, even surpassing  
> it's (then superior) brother Director (shockwave).
> Wild Tangent has turned more towards consoles, Virtools is only  
> getting picked up slowely, Otoy (I was impressed by the 2006  
> presentation at the GDC) hasn't made any announcement since (buy  
> out?). Anark isn't really suited well for online games. Adobe is  
> working on their new version of Flash, that has hardware support and  
> the ability to create extensions or code entire projects in C++. But  
> it isn't here yet.
> But it seems that here in the Netherlands we've got a company that  
> is not only developing a great 3D online platform. But is also  
> specifically aimed at and supporting game developers. I spoke with  
> them and they are really passionate about their product. I would  
> suggest to check out there site and register for the beta http://www.kalydo.com/
>
> Does anyone here know of any other platforms out there that are  
> serious about bringing good quality 3D games to the browser?
>
> Gert-Jan Brok
> Fantazm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Casual_Games mailing list
> Casual_Games at igda.org
> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe
> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8
> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ

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From morbus at disobey.com  Fri Jun 20 08:00:07 2008
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:00:07 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <A06C1ADC-1D99-41D8-837B-03FE6FCD66D3@ByDesignGames.com>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
	<A06C1ADC-1D99-41D8-837B-03FE6FCD66D3@ByDesignGames.com>
Message-ID: <485B9BC7.5090803@disobey.com>

> Having used the a fair majority of on & offline 3D engines over the 
> years (high & low end), in terms of accessibility, value & workflow, I 
> can say without a doubt the cream of the crop is Unity 
> (http:/www.unity3d.com <http://www.unity3d.com>) made by the wonderful 
> folks at Unity Technologies.

For what it's worth, I don't define Unity as a true
browser-based game. From my article from 2000:

   http://www.gamegrene.com/node/12

"Most Internet game play is divided into three categories: true browser 
based, browser plugin based, and client based." Under my definitions, 
Unity3D is browser-plugin based. Meaning, I just went to try out one of 
your games, and found that I couldn't actually play it because I have no 
capability to install the Unity3D browser plugin at my library's 
terminal. For example.

I, and the article above shows my early interest in them, am still 
looking for true browser based engines - games that require merely HTML 
or JavaScript to get their mojo going. The state of those types of 
engines, nowadays, is only partially better than it was back in 2000, 
though my friends and I have just started working on a new attempt at 
one, embedded within the Drupal content management system.

-- 
Morbus Iff ( be realistic. demand the impossible. )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Enjoy: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.videounderbelly.com/
aim: akaMorbus / skype: morbusiff / icq: 2927491 / jabber.org: morbus

From lists at theorganization.net  Fri Jun 20 09:10:51 2008
From: lists at theorganization.net (Jos Yule)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:10:51 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <485B9BC7.5090803@disobey.com>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>	<A06C1ADC-1D99-41D8-837B-03FE6FCD66D3@ByDesignGames.com>
	<485B9BC7.5090803@disobey.com>
Message-ID: <485BAC5B.8000909@theorganization.net>

Well, thinking about "pure" browser based games, you might want to look 
at Processing.js - a port of the processing language to javascript. They 
have done some simple game-like things with it, but it does allow for 
more complex games to be built...

http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/

Interesting stuff.

j


Morbus Iff wrote:
<snip>
> "Most Internet game play is divided into three categories: true browser 
> based, browser plugin based, and client based." Under my definitions, 
> Unity3D is browser-plugin based. Meaning, I just went to try out one of 
> your games, and found that I couldn't actually play it because I have no 
> capability to install the Unity3D browser plugin at my library's 
> terminal. For example.
> 

-- 
Jos Yule
Digital Hyakugei

From morbus at disobey.com  Fri Jun 20 09:29:07 2008
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:29:07 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <485BAC5B.8000909@theorganization.net>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>	<A06C1ADC-1D99-41D8-837B-03FE6FCD66D3@ByDesignGames.com>	<485B9BC7.5090803@disobey.com>
	<485BAC5B.8000909@theorganization.net>
Message-ID: <485BB0A3.4020601@disobey.com>

> http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/
> Interesting stuff.

Aye - I saw that when he initially released it. jQuery is shipped as 
part of the Drupal CMS (where all my work is centered around anyways), 
so it's a good fit. With that said, I haven't done anything with it. (At 
the moment, I've merely got a working Xbox 360 achievements-like system, 
and just barely started development on something called 5 Second Game.)

-- 
Morbus Iff ( is this a cut out bath-poster Morbus, or what? )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Enjoy: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.videounderbelly.com/
aim: akaMorbus / skype: morbusiff / icq: 2927491 / jabber.org: morbus

From jmurray at fuelindustries.com  Fri Jun 20 10:17:26 2008
From: jmurray at fuelindustries.com (Jeff Murray)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:17:26 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
Message-ID: <1861F7D138B8034FAAB4BF433EBCAD2401A9A659@EX1.Fuel.Ott>

Not wanting to blow Unity's trumpet for them, however ... Unity3d is
totally committed to browser-based games. It's their core focus and
their game engine is totally geared in that direction, although it's
just as easy to create a standalone executable as it is a browser app.

 

Whilst the plugin penetration rate is still relatively low compared to
Flash or Shockwave, they have the best plugin installer out of all of
them and the installation success rate is among the highest. It won't
hijack users to their own homepage and there are no annoying toolbar
installations, either ;)

 

The major drawback is that development is Mac only at the moment. That's
huge for a studio like ours where everything is geared up for PC and
makes it difficult for the company to adopt.

 

Unity development is in C# or Javascript and you can use the supplied
Unitron text editor or any other IDE like Visual Studio (even the free
express edition!) to develop with, which makes programmers very happy!
Source control is totally possible either through their own asset
management system or the usual systems (we use SVN). I haven't seen a
Unity-built game that failed to install or run on either my PCs or Macs.

 

Their support is incredible and they are a very approachable, friendly
company ... which in my book rates them very high after so many bad
support experiences with others in the past.

 

Thanks,

Jeff.

Jeff Murray  |  Director, Game Development

FUEL INDUSTRIES
tel: 613.224.6738
www.fuelindustries.com <http://www.fuelindustries.com/> 

Come play with the All Girl Star Squad at www.allgirlarcade.com
<http://www.allgirlarcade.com/> !

________________________________

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Gert-Jan Brok
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:04 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines

 

In a search for the holy grail of browser based game engines. It always
seems that they stay in a niche.
Flash managed to grab the major part of the market, even surpassing it's
(then superior) brother Director (shockwave).
Wild Tangent has turned more towards consoles, Virtools is only getting
picked up slowely, Otoy (I was impressed by the 2006 presentation at the
GDC) hasn't made any announcement since (buy out?). Anark isn't really
suited well for online games. Adobe is working on their new version of
Flash, that has hardware support and the ability to create extensions or
code entire projects in C++. But it isn't here yet.
But it seems that here in the Netherlands we've got a company that is
not only developing a great 3D online platform. But is also specifically
aimed at and supporting game developers. I spoke with them and they are
really passionate about their product. I would suggest to check out
there site and register for the beta http://www.kalydo.com/

Does anyone here know of any other platforms out there that are serious
about bringing good quality 3D games to the browser?

Gert-Jan Brok
Fantazm



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From tulsidas at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 10:26:40 2008
From: tulsidas at gmail.com (Andres Quijano)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:26:40 -0300
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <1861F7D138B8034FAAB4BF433EBCAD2401A9A659@EX1.Fuel.Ott>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
	<1861F7D138B8034FAAB4BF433EBCAD2401A9A659@EX1.Fuel.Ott>
Message-ID: <cc4022060806200726j6e0484bev8e87deef7f1f02f0@mail.gmail.com>

An alternative to Flash and other browser plugins:

http://www.interactivepulp.com/pulpcore/

From miguelportilla at pobros.com  Fri Jun 20 10:42:56 2008
From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:42:56 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <1861F7D138B8034FAAB4BF433EBCAD2401A9A659@EX1.Fuel.Ott>
References: <485B6478.5070503@fantazm.com>
	<1861F7D138B8034FAAB4BF433EBCAD2401A9A659@EX1.Fuel.Ott>
Message-ID: <485BC1F0.90203@pobros.com>

Unity seems to be a great engine, especially considering everything you 
get for the price. The problem we had with it when we were evaluating it 
was that it's really geared towards 3D games and not 2D. The latest 
version added some support that helps with 2D games, but it can use 
more. We've encouraged the Unity developers to improve that, even given 
them a 2D feature wish list. Sure its possible to hack out a 2D game 
with Unity, but it's not a clean comfortable development path. I 
sincerely hope future versions will improve the 2D capabilities, 
especially since 99.9% of casual games are 2D.

-Miguel

From alex.ionescu at eprize.com  Fri Jun 20 11:25:27 2008
From: alex.ionescu at eprize.com (Alex Ionescu)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:25:27 -0400
Subject: [casual_games] browser based game engines
In-Reply-To: <cc4022060806200726j6e0484bev8e87deef7f1f02f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4814428.C6B%alex.ionescu@eprize.com>

Here is another alternative for browser-based games, from GarageGames, the
makers of Torque Game Builder (2D) and Torque Game Engine (3D):

http://www.instantaction.com/

Regards,
Alex Ionescu
Flash Game Developer
___________________________
ePrize LLC
One ePrize Drive
Pleasant Ridge, MI 48069
Direct:(248) 543-5439
Main:(248) 543-6800
Cell:(248) 709-4713
Fax:(248) 543-3777
alex.ionescu at eprize.com

Interactive Promotion Results
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P Please consider the environment before printing this email


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From universedave at gmail.com  Sun Jun 29 17:08:22 2008
From: universedave at gmail.com (Dave Rohrl)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:22 -0700
Subject: [casual_games] More help needed for the white paper
Message-ID: <91a814620806291408g1de3b89y4abc64acae8b373@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Work is continuing on the casual games white paper.  Many sections of the
paper are done and others are coming along quite well.  Unfortunately, due
to some of the recent changes at Real Arcade, I need a couple of new
volunteers to step in and help get a couple of sections of the white paper
over the line.

Here are the areas that need new volunteers:

   - Writing the overview section for the try-and-buy download section.
   - Doing final follow-up and content edits for the overview (Understanding
   Casual Games) section.

Each of these is about a 6-8 commitment.  Ideally, I would like to have
these tasks done in the next two weeks, but will consider volunteers who
need to work on a longer timeline.

If you are willing and able to help out the community by completing these
important tasks, please email me ASAP.

Thanks,
Dave Rohrl
2008 IGDA Casual Games White Paper Editor
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