From gaye.lego at brickedbox.com Tue Sep 2 14:38:44 2008 From: gaye.lego at brickedbox.com (Gaye Lego) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:38:44 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies Message-ID: <00a701c90d2b$3385c790$9a9156b0$@lego@brickedbox.com> We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people are playing their games and from where. We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. Thanks, Gaye -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crawford at twofish.com Tue Sep 2 14:44:27 2008 From: crawford at twofish.com (Lee Crawford) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:44:27 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Gaye, There's already a great cross-platform service for that: http://www.google.com/analytics/ --lee On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Gaye Lego wrote: > We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends > back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people are > playing their games and from where. > > > > We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big the > market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. > > > > Thanks, > > Gaye > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at fugazo.com Tue Sep 2 14:53:45 2008 From: andrew at fugazo.com (Andrew Lum) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:53:45 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <48BD8BB9.5070101@fugazo.com> I can speak for other companies, but Fugazo is in the casual downloadable space so we would only care about C++ games. Typically, the budget for downloadable games is much larger than java and flash games except in the case where you're talking about a browser based MMO. Andrew Lum Lee Crawford wrote: > Gaye, > > There's already a great cross-platform service for that: > > http://www.google.com/analytics/ > > --lee > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Gaye Lego > wrote: > > We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that > sends back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how > many people are playing their games and from where. > > > > We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how > big the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. > > > > Thanks, > > Gaye > > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -- Andrew Lum andrew at fugazo.com www.fugazo.com P: 206-349-7805 F: 206-568-3455 CEO, President Fugazo, Inc. From gaye.lego at brickedbox.com Tue Sep 2 14:57:29 2008 From: gaye.lego at brickedbox.com (Gaye Lego) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:57:29 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <00cd01c90d2d$d035b580$70a12080$@lego@brickedbox.com> We are aware of google analytics. But we have some other services that are not inclusive to analytics. My original question was in regards to the market size of the technologies being used to develop games so we can better steer our development. I was not asking about services or methods for providing business intelligence or analytics for games. Sorry if the question was misunderstoodJ From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Lee Crawford Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:44 PM To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies Gaye, There's already a great cross-platform service for that: http://www.google.com/analytics/ --lee On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Gaye Lego wrote: We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people are playing their games and from where. We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. Thanks, Gaye _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nalin at puzzlekings.com Tue Sep 2 15:15:21 2008 From: nalin at puzzlekings.com (Nalin Sharma) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:15:21 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <48BD90C9.8010405@puzzlekings.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crawford at twofish.com Tue Sep 2 15:33:01 2008 From: crawford at twofish.com (Lee Crawford) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:33:01 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <48BD90C9.8010405@puzzlekings.com> References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> <48BD90C9.8010405@puzzlekings.com> Message-ID: You manually forge the tickle URL hits yourself using your GA key. --lee On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Nalin Sharma wrote: > How do you integrate GA with C++ games? > > Lee Crawford wrote: > > Gaye, > > There's already a great cross-platform service for that: > > http://www.google.com/analytics/ > > --lee > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Gaye Lego wrote: > >> We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends >> back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people are >> playing their games and from where. >> >> >> >> We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big the >> market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Gaye >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing listCasual_Games at igda.orghttp://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hal at finitearts.com Tue Sep 2 15:51:36 2008 From: hal at finitearts.com (Hal Barwood) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:51:36 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <00cd01c90d2d$d035b580$70a12080$@lego@brickedbox.com> References: <-4285151342220782818@unknownmsgid> <00cd01c90d2d$d035b580$70a12080$@lego@brickedbox.com> Message-ID: <48BD9948.4030708@finitearts.com> I hope your software will be bullet-proof. Nothing annoys me more than an incompetent app that screws up my OS net connections, or sucks up online bandwidth or goes online when I don't want it to, or leaves ports open for malware attacks. Come to think of it -- your plan itself sounds a little like malware. Gaye Lego wrote: > We are aware of google analytics. But we have some other services that > are not inclusive to analytics. > > > > My original question was in regards to the market size of the > technologies being used to develop games so we can better steer our > development. > > > > I was not asking about services or methods for providing business > intelligence or analytics for games. Sorry if the question was > misunderstoodJ > > > > > > *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Lee Crawford > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:44 PM > *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List > *Subject:* Re: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies > > > > Gaye, > > There's already a great cross-platform service for that: > > http://www.google.com/analytics/ > > --lee > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Gaye Lego > wrote: > > We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends > back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people > are playing their games and from where. > > > > We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big > the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. > > > > Thanks, > > Gaye > > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : -------------- next part -------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.156 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM From Lennard at RustyAxe.com Tue Sep 2 15:57:59 2008 From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:57:59 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <00a701c90d2b$3385c790$9a9156b0$@lego@brickedbox.com> References: <00a701c90d2b$3385c790$9a9156b0$@lego@brickedbox.com> Message-ID: <48BD9AC7.3090304@RustyAxe.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaye.lego at brickedbox.com Tue Sep 2 16:03:36 2008 From: gaye.lego at brickedbox.com (Gaye Lego) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:03:36 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <48BD9AC7.3090304@RustyAxe.com> References: <00a701c90d2b$3385c790$9a9156b0$@lego@brickedbox.com> <48BD9AC7.3090304@RustyAxe.com> Message-ID: <016201c90d37$0f2adf00$2d809d00$@lego@brickedbox.com> I understand the concerns and we do plan to test and beta this plugin. Again, its an optional service available to publishers and developers looking to see the marketing potential of their games. We have encountered a need in the market for such a tool that is very easy to implement and does not compromise the integrity and security of the game. Question for us now is, where do we start and where do we go next? Java, C++ or Flash. From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Lennard Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 3:58 PM To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies I helped start an in game ads company a few years ago and we did this as part of our service. One big barrier that would make me not want to hook this up as a casual game developer is that it causes many people to get a firewall warning when your game sends info. back to the server. Lennard Feddersen CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc. www.RustyAxe.com Lennard at RustyAxe.com P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466 P. July & August 518-863-2317 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2 Gaye Lego wrote: We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many people are playing their games and from where. We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. Thanks, Gaye _____ _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1647 - Release Date: 9/2/2008 6:02 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From miguelportilla at pobros.com Tue Sep 2 16:12:11 2008 From: miguelportilla at pobros.com (Miguel Portilla) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:12:11 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Market Size for Technologies In-Reply-To: <48BD9AC7.3090304@RustyAxe.com> References: <00a701c90d2b$3385c790$9a9156b0$@lego@brickedbox.com> <48BD9AC7.3090304@RustyAxe.com> Message-ID: <48BD9E1B.2030505@pobros.com> For online flash games that probably won't happen. If the 'plugin' is written in the form of an exe then the user might only need to grant firewall permission once. But I agree, I see all kinds of potential issues... -Miguel Lennard wrote: > I helped start an in game ads company a few years ago and we did this > as part of our service. One big barrier that would make me not want > to hook this up as a casual game developer is that it causes many > people to get a firewall warning when your game sends info. back to > the server. > Lennard Feddersen > CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc. > www.RustyAxe.com > > Lennard at RustyAxe.com > P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466 > P. July & August 518-863-2317 > 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2 > > > Gaye Lego wrote: >> >> We are planning to design a plug-in for java and c++ games that sends >> back data to the server so pubs and developers can see how many >> people are playing their games and from where. >> >> >> >> We are prioritizing our development and we would like to know how big >> the market is for java games vs. flash vs. C++ Games. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Gaye >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1647 - Release Date: 9/2/2008 6:02 AM >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Fri Sep 5 03:27:25 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:27:25 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> Message-ID: <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> Hi I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer Mac versions too if this isn't too much hassle. Any advice much appreciated Thanks Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olive at globz.com Fri Sep 5 08:05:15 2008 From: olive at globz.com (Olivier Besson) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:05:15 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> Message-ID: <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> Hi, TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become activeMark-compatible. - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. Hope it helps, Olivier Paul Steven a ?crit : > > Hi > > I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to > develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if > people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of > downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will > be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer > Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. > > Any advice much appreciated > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > From paul_steven at btinternet.com Fri Sep 5 08:10:11 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:10:11 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> Message-ID: <013a01c90f50$58f91910$0aeb4b30$@com> Thanks Oliver - that is most helpful indeed!! Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Olivier Besson Sent: 05 September 2008 13:05 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi, TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become activeMark-compatible. - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. Hope it helps, Olivier Paul Steven a ?crit : > > Hi > > I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to > develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if > people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of > downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will > be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer > Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. > > Any advice much appreciated > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ From Dennis at isioux.nl Fri Sep 5 08:15:42 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 14:15:42 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> Message-ID: <002201c90f51$1e003ef0$0f01a8c0@Dennis> We prevere Zinc, because it had proved to be compatible with all the DRM's we've come along so far.(Even activeMark). For the security.. DRM's are cracked alot aswell.. so there isn't a 100% safety.. usually games get on Torrent site's pretty fast. You could use an online check system.. although it's possible to bypass this aswell..will have more helpdesk work.. and not all Publishers would like this i think.. because usually they have their own activation structure in their DRM .. like a time limit. Good luck. Dennis Isioux ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > Hi, > > TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: > you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. > There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D > > Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you > build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but > they are not always compatible with encryption systems: > > - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become > activeMark-compatible. > - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps > your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) > - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I > didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. > > Hope it helps, > > Olivier > > > Paul Steven a ?crit : >> >> Hi >> >> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to develop >> a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if people tend to >> use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of downloadable executable >> type games and if so what is available? I will be developing the games in >> Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer Mac versions too if this isn?t >> too much hassle. >> >> Any advice much appreciated >> >> Thanks >> >> Paul >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > From paul_steven at btinternet.com Fri Sep 5 08:18:47 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:18:47 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <002201c90f51$1e003ef0$0f01a8c0@Dennis> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <002201c90f51$1e003ef0$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Message-ID: <013c01c90f51$8c2da8e0$a488faa0$@com> Thanks Dennis Is the general opinion that it is worth adding protection for these kind of games? I imagine the games are going to be retailing for around ?20 (possibly less) to a very young audience (5 - 8 year olds). How do these protection systems work for downloadable executables? Does the purchaser receive a serial number or is the game tied to a particular machine? I don't want to cause headaches for purchasers when trying to play their purchases. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Dennis - I Sioux Sent: 05 September 2008 13:16 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games We prevere Zinc, because it had proved to be compatible with all the DRM's we've come along so far.(Even activeMark). For the security.. DRM's are cracked alot aswell.. so there isn't a 100% safety.. usually games get on Torrent site's pretty fast. You could use an online check system.. although it's possible to bypass this aswell..will have more helpdesk work.. and not all Publishers would like this i think.. because usually they have their own activation structure in their DRM .. like a time limit. Good luck. Dennis Isioux ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > Hi, > > TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: > you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. > There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D > > Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you > build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but > they are not always compatible with encryption systems: > > - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become > activeMark-compatible. > - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps > your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) > - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I > didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. > > Hope it helps, > > Olivier > > > Paul Steven a ?crit : >> >> Hi >> >> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to develop >> a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if people tend to >> use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of downloadable executable >> type games and if so what is available? I will be developing the games in >> Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer Mac versions too if this isn?t >> too much hassle. >> >> Any advice much appreciated >> >> Thanks >> >> Paul >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ From Dennis at isioux.nl Fri Sep 5 08:33:20 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 14:33:20 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com><002201c90f51$1e003ef0$0f01a8c0@Dennis> <013c01c90f51$8c2da8e0$a488faa0$@com> Message-ID: <004a01c90f53$94781650$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Hey Paul, Well.. it's hard to tell. We had a discussion here if we should upgrade our protection. Because we saw the populaity of our games going up.. and that resulted in a fast and groing interest on Torrent sites. I've read an article about it.. saying (i believe it was:) that every 1000 illigal download you would stop.. will result in 1 buy. But off course it depends on your target audience alot.. 14-30 are pretty smart with computers nowadays.. and even 50 year old put a link on a forum to a illigal game they are hosting.. For the downloadable exe: It depends.. the bigger game sites with their own show use the DRM they have.. this will be wrapped around your game.. handle the demo time and after that when the user buys the product unlock the version to result in full play. In that scenario you can't add much of your own protection system.. If you sell it yourself.. you have full influence.. you could start with a simpel serial check and store it in a Shared Object.. to things like using Zinc to save stuff in your registry.. or check for a mac adres ... and communicating that with your server. If it's all worth it.. is up to you :) Greetz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Steven" To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > Thanks Dennis > > Is the general opinion that it is worth adding protection for these kind > of > games? I imagine the games are going to be retailing for around ?20 > (possibly less) to a very young audience (5 - 8 year olds). > > How do these protection systems work for downloadable executables? Does > the > purchaser receive a serial number or is the game tied to a particular > machine? I don't want to cause headaches for purchasers when trying to > play > their purchases. > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of Dennis - I Sioux > Sent: 05 September 2008 13:16 > To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > We prevere Zinc, because it had proved to be compatible with all the DRM's > we've come along so far.(Even activeMark). > > For the security.. DRM's are cracked alot aswell.. so there isn't a 100% > safety.. usually games get on Torrent site's pretty fast. > You could use an online check system.. although it's possible to bypass > this > > aswell..will have more helpdesk work.. and not all Publishers would like > this i think.. because usually they have their own activation structure in > their DRM .. like a time limit. > > Good luck. > > Dennis > Isioux > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olivier Besson" > To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:05 PM > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > >> Hi, >> >> TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: >> you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. >> There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D >> >> Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you >> build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, >> but > >> they are not always compatible with encryption systems: >> >> - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become >> activeMark-compatible. >> - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps >> your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) >> - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but >> I > >> didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. >> >> Hope it helps, >> >> Olivier >> >> >> Paul Steven a ?crit : >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to develop >>> a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if people tend >>> to > >>> use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of downloadable executable >>> type games and if so what is available? I will be developing the games >>> in > >>> Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer Mac versions too if this isn't >>> too much hassle. >>> >>> Any advice much appreciated >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ >> >> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >> http://www.nod32.nl >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > From Dennis at isioux.nl Fri Sep 5 08:36:49 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 14:36:49 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com><002201c90f51$1e003ef0$0f01a8c0@Dennis><013c01c90f51$8c2da8e0$a488faa0$@com> <004a01c90f53$94781650$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Message-ID: <005b01c90f54$114dca30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> With the 50 year old.. i ment a low level home computer user offcourse :-D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis - I Sioux" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > Hey Paul, > > Well.. it's hard to tell. > We had a discussion here if we should upgrade our protection. > Because we saw the populaity of our games going up.. and that resulted in > a fast and groing interest on Torrent sites. > > I've read an article about it.. saying (i believe it was:) that every 1000 > illigal download you would stop.. will result in 1 buy. > But off course it depends on your target audience alot.. 14-30 are pretty > smart with computers nowadays.. and even 50 year old put a link on a forum > to a illigal game they are hosting.. > > For the downloadable exe: > It depends.. the bigger game sites with their own show use the DRM they > have.. this will be wrapped around your game.. handle the demo time and > after that when the user buys the product unlock the version to result in > full play. > In that scenario you can't add much of your own protection system.. > > If you sell it yourself.. you have full influence.. you could start with a > simpel serial check and store it in a Shared Object.. to things like using > Zinc to save stuff in your registry.. or check for a mac adres ... and > communicating that with your server. > > If it's all worth it.. is up to you :) > > Greetz > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Steven" > To: "'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > >> Thanks Dennis >> >> Is the general opinion that it is worth adding protection for these kind >> of >> games? I imagine the games are going to be retailing for around ?20 >> (possibly less) to a very young audience (5 - 8 year olds). >> >> How do these protection systems work for downloadable executables? Does >> the >> purchaser receive a serial number or is the game tied to a particular >> machine? I don't want to cause headaches for purchasers when trying to >> play >> their purchases. >> >> Cheers >> >> Paul >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] >> On Behalf Of Dennis - I Sioux >> Sent: 05 September 2008 13:16 >> To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >> >> We prevere Zinc, because it had proved to be compatible with all the >> DRM's >> we've come along so far.(Even activeMark). >> >> For the security.. DRM's are cracked alot aswell.. so there isn't a 100% >> safety.. usually games get on Torrent site's pretty fast. >> You could use an online check system.. although it's possible to bypass >> this >> >> aswell..will have more helpdesk work.. and not all Publishers would like >> this i think.. because usually they have their own activation structure >> in >> their DRM .. like a time limit. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Dennis >> Isioux >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olivier Besson" >> To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: >>> you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. >>> There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D >>> >>> Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way >>> you >>> build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, >>> but >> >>> they are not always compatible with encryption systems: >>> >>> - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become >>> activeMark-compatible. >>> - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps >>> your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) >>> - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but >>> I >> >>> didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. >>> >>> Hope it helps, >>> >>> Olivier >>> >>> >>> Paul Steven a ?crit : >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to >>>> develop >>>> a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if people tend >>>> to >> >>>> use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of downloadable executable >>>> type games and if so what is available? I will be developing the games >>>> in >> >>>> Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer Mac versions too if this isn't >>>> too much hassle. >>>> >>>> Any advice much appreciated >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Casual_Games mailing list >>>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive Search: >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>>> List FAQ: >>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ >>> >>> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >>> http://www.nod32.nl >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ >> >> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >> http://www.nod32.nl >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3418 (20080905) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > From dbahlman at xblitz.com Fri Sep 5 10:01:59 2008 From: dbahlman at xblitz.com (Donald) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:01:59 -0500 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> Message-ID: <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> Hi Paul, TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by Real. And has since been impossible to get any kind of response back (at least for us). We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be very good DRM's as well. Good Luck, Don xBlitz Entertainment www.xblitz.com www.wrigglewords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi, TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become activeMark-compatible. - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. Hope it helps, Olivier Paul Steven a ?crit : > > Hi > > I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to > develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if > people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of > downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will > be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer > Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. > > Any advice much appreciated > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 6:57 AM From scott at gamelab.com Fri Sep 5 10:37:06 2008 From: scott at gamelab.com (Scott Price) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:37:06 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com><48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> Message-ID: <6C81F481A7B40B46AFF79A69EE6462C4736C0F@AUSP02VMBX01.Mi8.com> I'd like to answer and give a modified question-- We've been using ActiveMark for our downloadable PC games for several years now, and have been pretty happy with them. I know that several of our publishers use them for the games that we develop and they distribute, too. A nice thing about TryMedia in general is that they can also host and manage payments for the downloads, too. We put a link on our site and in the demo of the game to their site, and players purchase the game and download it. They get a serial no. which must check in with TryMedia once and then is noted as used. It's the best we've seen short of a homegrown or continuous-verification system. Last I checked, though, ActiveMark didn't wrap Mac apps. What do you all use for Mac games? Scott Price Associate Producer * Gamelab -----Original Message----- From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Donald Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:02 AM To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi Paul, TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by Real. And has since been impossible to get any kind of response back (at least for us). We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be very good DRM's as well. Good Luck, Don xBlitz Entertainment www.xblitz.com www.wrigglewords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi, TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become activeMark-compatible. - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. Hope it helps, Olivier Paul Steven a ?crit : > > Hi > > I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to > develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if > people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of > downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will > be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer > Mac versions too if this isn't too much hassle. > > Any advice much appreciated > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 6:57 AM _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ From paul_steven at btinternet.com Fri Sep 5 11:00:31 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:00:31 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> Message-ID: <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com> Thank you for all the very useful and informative replies. It sounds like there are a few possibilities out there so I will follow up these leads and get some more info. Quick question regards the cost of these protection schemes. Do these companies charge a one off fixed fee or do they work on a commission basis related to the number of downloads. I just want to get a rough idea of the cost to add to my costing for this project. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Donald Sent: 05 September 2008 15:02 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi Paul, TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by Real. And has since been impossible to get any kind of response back (at least for us). We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be very good DRM's as well. Good Luck, Don xBlitz Entertainment www.xblitz.com www.wrigglewords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games Hi, TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become activeMark-compatible. - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. Hope it helps, Olivier Paul Steven a ?crit : > > Hi > > I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to > develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if > people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of > downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will > be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer > Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. > > Any advice much appreciated > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 6:57 AM _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ From hal at finitearts.com Fri Sep 5 12:02:34 2008 From: hal at finitearts.com (Hal Barwood) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:02:34 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com> Message-ID: <48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> Be careful with DRMs and Flash -- some of the Flash wrappers embed the SWF version of your project and are often *much* slower to execute ActionScript than the standalone player. If you're game is creaking already, a DRM could be fatal. Paul Steven wrote: > Thank you for all the very useful and informative replies. It sounds like > there are a few possibilities out there so I will follow up these leads and > get some more info. > > Quick question regards the cost of these protection schemes. Do these > companies charge a one off fixed fee or do they work on a commission basis > related to the number of downloads. I just want to get a rough idea of the > cost to add to my costing for this project. > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of Donald > Sent: 05 September 2008 15:02 > To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > Hi Paul, > > TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by Real. And > has since been impossible to get any kind of response back (at least for > us). > > We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). > > Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be very > good DRM's as well. > > Good Luck, > > Don > xBlitz Entertainment > > www.xblitz.com > www.wrigglewords.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olivier Besson" > To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > > Hi, > > TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: > you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. > There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D > > Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way > you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe > wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: > > - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become > activeMark-compatible. > - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps > your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) > - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but > I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. > > Hope it helps, > > Olivier > > > Paul Steven a ?crit : >> Hi >> >> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to >> develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if >> people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of >> downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will >> be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer >> Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. >> >> Any advice much appreciated >> >> Thanks >> >> Paul >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 > 6:57 AM > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : -------------- next part -------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.156 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM From olive at globz.com Fri Sep 5 14:17:36 2008 From: olive at globz.com (Olivier Besson) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:17:36 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com> <48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> Message-ID: <48C177C0.909@globz.com> Yes, the wrappers using activeX (Zinc, Swfkit,..) to embed flash will remove 30% of your framerate, even if your flash is empty and even if no particular script is running. Jugglor doesn't use activeX (it uses the flash projector EXE you provide) thus, the performance is about the same as your original file. Olivier Hal Barwood a ?crit : > Be careful with DRMs and Flash -- some of the Flash wrappers embed the > SWF version of your project and are often *much* slower to execute > ActionScript than the standalone player. If you're game is creaking > already, a DRM could be fatal. > > Paul Steven wrote: >> Thank you for all the very useful and informative replies. It sounds >> like >> there are a few possibilities out there so I will follow up these >> leads and >> get some more info. >> >> Quick question regards the cost of these protection schemes. Do these >> companies charge a one off fixed fee or do they work on a commission >> basis >> related to the number of downloads. I just want to get a rough idea >> of the >> cost to add to my costing for this project. >> >> Cheers >> >> Paul >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] >> On Behalf Of Donald >> Sent: 05 September 2008 15:02 >> To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >> >> Hi Paul, >> >> TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by >> Real. And has since been impossible to get any kind of response back >> (at least for us). >> >> We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). >> >> Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be >> very good DRM's as well. >> >> Good Luck, >> >> Don >> xBlitz Entertainment >> >> www.xblitz.com >> www.wrigglewords.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" >> To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >> >> >> Hi, >> >> TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: >> you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. >> There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D >> >> Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way >> you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe >> wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: >> >> - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become >> activeMark-compatible. >> - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps >> your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) >> - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but >> I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. >> >> Hope it helps, >> >> Olivier >> >> >> Paul Steven a ?crit : >>> Hi >>> >>> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to >>> develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if >>> people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of >>> downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will >>> be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer >>> Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. >>> >>> Any advice much appreciated >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: >> 9/5/2008 6:57 AM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > From Dennis at isioux.nl Mon Sep 8 03:00:25 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:00:25 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com><48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> <48C177C0.909@globz.com> Message-ID: <003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Actually.. In the beginning of this year i've been in contact with Mdm (makers of Zinc) about the framerate loss. They weren't aware that the flash player was faster.. but after showing some tests they went to look into it. Now since version 3.0.3(i believe it was) they have changed the way they render to screen. With the old way, they would rendered everything to a buffer first, after that.. showing it on screen. Now they don't use the buffer anymore, and it's as fast as the original flash player. Mind that at that time the new changes didn't apply for the demo zinc and transparant app's Dennis Isioux ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > Yes, > the wrappers using activeX (Zinc, Swfkit,..) to embed flash will remove > 30% of your framerate, even if your flash is empty and even if no > particular script is running. > Jugglor doesn't use activeX (it uses the flash projector EXE you provide) > thus, the performance is about the same as your original file. > > Olivier > > Hal Barwood a ?crit : >> Be careful with DRMs and Flash -- some of the Flash wrappers embed the >> SWF version of your project and are often *much* slower to execute >> ActionScript than the standalone player. If you're game is creaking >> already, a DRM could be fatal. >> >> Paul Steven wrote: >>> Thank you for all the very useful and informative replies. It sounds >>> like >>> there are a few possibilities out there so I will follow up these leads >>> and >>> get some more info. >>> >>> Quick question regards the cost of these protection schemes. Do these >>> companies charge a one off fixed fee or do they work on a commission >>> basis >>> related to the number of downloads. I just want to get a rough idea of >>> the >>> cost to add to my costing for this project. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org >>> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] >>> On Behalf Of Donald >>> Sent: 05 September 2008 15:02 >>> To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >>> >>> Hi Paul, >>> >>> TryMedia is great, however it was purchased earlier this year by Real. >>> And has since been impossible to get any kind of response back (at least >>> for us). >>> >>> We went with SoftwarePassport (the new Armadillo). >>> >>> Another couple are "GameShield" and "Plimus". Both are supposed to be >>> very good DRM's as well. >>> >>> Good Luck, >>> >>> Don >>> xBlitz Entertainment >>> >>> www.xblitz.com >>> www.wrigglewords.com >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" >>> To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:05 AM >>> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> TryMedia ActiveMark (http://www.trymedia.com/) is an encryption system: >>> you provide the EXE and they build an encrypted exe. >>> There is another popular DRM system but I forgot the name :D >>> >>> Regarding flash games, you have to be careful when you choose the way >>> you build your exe: Zinc, Swfkit, Jugglor are popular swf-to-exe >>> wrappers, but they are not always compatible with encryption systems: >>> >>> - In Swfkit, you have to use "no compression" option to become >>> activeMark-compatible. >>> - Jugglor is activeMark-compatible. Unlike other wrappers, it also keeps >>> your original framerate, but it's another issue..;-) >>> - Zinc was not not activeMark-compatible "as is" some years ago, ... but >>> I didn't check with the Zinc 3.0 version. >>> >>> Hope it helps, >>> >>> Olivier >>> >>> >>> Paul Steven a ?crit : >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I normally only develop online games and have just been asked to >>>> develop a series of downloadable games. I am interested to know if >>>> people tend to use any protection schemes to prevent piracy of >>>> downloadable executable type games and if so what is available? I will >>>> be developing the games in Abobe Flash for the PC. I may also offer >>>> Mac versions too if this isn?t too much hassle. >>>> >>>> Any advice much appreciated >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Casual_Games mailing list >>>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive Search: >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>>> List FAQ: >>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: >>> 9/5/2008 6:57 AM >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > From olive at globz.com Mon Sep 8 04:43:45 2008 From: olive at globz.com (Olivier Besson) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:43:45 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games In-Reply-To: <003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com><48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> <48C177C0.909@globz.com> <003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Message-ID: <48C4E5C1.8090405@globz.com> It seemed good news, but.. I just checked with version 3.0.6 and 3.08 : - 120 fps becomes 60 fps in zinc projector - 60 fps becomes 40 fps, - etc.. It the same problem as usual with flash activeX :( Is there any option to activate to get this display mode? (I just started a new project, choose the swf and that's it). Olivier Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : > Actually.. In the beginning of this year i've been in contact with Mdm > (makers of Zinc) about the framerate loss. > They weren't aware that the flash player was faster.. but after > showing some tests they went to look into it. > Now since version 3.0.3(i believe it was) they have changed the way > they render to screen. > > With the old way, they would rendered everything to a buffer first, > after that.. showing it on screen. > Now they don't use the buffer anymore, and it's as fast as the > original flash player. > > Mind that at that time the new changes didn't apply for the demo zinc > and transparant app's > > Dennis > Isioux > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: test_120fps.zip Type: application/zip Size: 5929 bytes Desc: not available Url : From Dennis at isioux.nl Mon Sep 8 05:58:21 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:58:21 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Zinc framerate References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com><48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> <48C177C0.909@globz.com><003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> <48C4E5C1.8090405@globz.com> Message-ID: <002b01c91199$6d3b2170$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Hey Olivier, Are you using the full version? And also.. did you update the latest builder.. and if you update you latest plugins.. make sure you delete the old onces first.. because the updating doesn't work that great.. best is to do a complete cleanup. It should be up to 95% of normal speed atleast.. but in most cases we don't see any difference at all anymore. Mdm's blog about this beeing resolved: http://www.multidmedia.com/blog/?p=23 Greetz, Dennis Isioux P.s. I've changed the topic to keep it clean :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > It seemed good news, but.. I just checked with version 3.0.6 and 3.08 : > - 120 fps becomes 60 fps in zinc projector > - 60 fps becomes 40 fps, > - etc.. > It the same problem as usual with flash activeX :( > Is there any option to activate to get this display mode? (I just > started a new project, choose the swf and that's it). > > Olivier > > Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : >> Actually.. In the beginning of this year i've been in contact with Mdm >> (makers of Zinc) about the framerate loss. >> They weren't aware that the flash player was faster.. but after >> showing some tests they went to look into it. >> Now since version 3.0.3(i believe it was) they have changed the way >> they render to screen. >> >> With the old way, they would rendered everything to a buffer first, >> after that.. showing it on screen. >> Now they don't use the buffer anymore, and it's as fast as the >> original flash player. >> >> Mind that at that time the new changes didn't apply for the demo zinc >> and transparant app's >> >> Dennis >> Isioux >> > > > > > __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > > __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > From olive at globz.com Mon Sep 8 12:34:17 2008 From: olive at globz.com (Olivier Besson) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:34:17 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Zinc framerate In-Reply-To: <002b01c91199$6d3b2170$0f01a8c0@Dennis> References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com><48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> <48C177C0.909@globz.com><003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> <48C4E5C1.8090405@globz.com> <002b01c91199$6d3b2170$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Message-ID: <48C55409.1090607@globz.com> How foolish, I was trying with a trial version :) thanks for the link ! .. However.. :( I uninstalled/restarted computer/reinstalled Zinc 3.0.8 (trial) but.. still the same problem (tested with 120 fps + 60 fps).. Is it because I don't have the full version? It's so weeeeeird.. that I should bother MDM instead of this list (sorry).. Olivier ps: Please note we are supposed to "be glad to know that the 3.0.2 Projectors now run at the same speed as the native Web Flash Player"... But the Web Flash player is different from the Flash standalone projector. Flash Web player have also the same framerate penalty in IE, and FF2 (but no more in FF, since version 3). The Flash standalone projector is were the framerate is best. Olivier Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : > Hey Olivier, > > Are you using the full version? > And also.. did you update the latest builder.. and if you update you > latest plugins.. make sure you delete the old onces first.. because > the updating doesn't work that great.. best is to do a complete cleanup. > > It should be up to 95% of normal speed atleast.. but in most cases we > don't see any difference at all anymore. > Mdm's blog about this beeing resolved: > http://www.multidmedia.com/blog/?p=23 > > Greetz, > > Dennis > Isioux > > P.s. I've changed the topic to keep it clean :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" > To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:43 AM > Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games > > >> It seemed good news, but.. I just checked with version 3.0.6 and 3.08 : >> - 120 fps becomes 60 fps in zinc projector >> - 60 fps becomes 40 fps, >> - etc.. >> It the same problem as usual with flash activeX :( >> Is there any option to activate to get this display mode? (I just >> started a new project, choose the swf and that's it). >> >> Olivier >> >> Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : >>> Actually.. In the beginning of this year i've been in contact with Mdm >>> (makers of Zinc) about the framerate loss. >>> They weren't aware that the flash player was faster.. but after >>> showing some tests they went to look into it. >>> Now since version 3.0.3(i believe it was) they have changed the way >>> they render to screen. >>> >>> With the old way, they would rendered everything to a buffer first, >>> after that.. showing it on screen. >>> Now they don't use the buffer anymore, and it's as fast as the >>> original flash player. >>> >>> Mind that at that time the new changes didn't apply for the demo zinc >>> and transparant app's >>> >>> Dennis >>> Isioux >>> >> >> >> >> >> __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ >> >> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >> http://www.nod32.nl >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> >> >> >> __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ >> >> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >> http://www.nod32.nl >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > From Dennis at isioux.nl Tue Sep 9 02:56:34 2008 From: Dennis at isioux.nl (Dennis - I Sioux) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:56:34 +0200 Subject: [casual_games] Zinc framerate References: <34A7EB2D-9B37-425A-B1CE-6C42144CB889@qb9.net> <01c501c90f28$d8a68530$89f38f90$@com> <48C1207B.6050601@globz.com> <0AAEFAEAAA824F95AAB33744A2F14F17@xBlitzGames> <000601c90f68$24687250$6d3956f0$@com><48C1581A.6030701@finitearts.com> <48C177C0.909@globz.com><003301c91180$91f10e30$0f01a8c0@Dennis> <48C4E5C1.8090405@globz.com><002b01c91199$6d3b2170$0f01a8c0@Dennis> <48C55409.1090607@globz.com> Message-ID: <003401c91249$3265ba50$0f01a8c0@Dennis> Well in this case it is interesting for the DRM discussion aswell.. :) It's because it's the trial .. When i was in contact with MDM at the time.. i said to them that i found it weird that they didn't put the new fix in the demo aswell.. because this would be a great marketing thing.. as everybody hated zinc for the speed. Kevan Harriman of Mdm wrote: "The speed increase is only on the full plugin. Due to the watermark on the trial edition, we have to render the content the same way as before. I tested the swf you sent with the picture of the sunset and it's much, much faster on the full plugin than the trial plugin. " So i guess they still haven't put it in their demo.. transparant projector's will render as the old way aswell.. probably the watermark uses this transparant option. For the linux and mac they don't use activeX .. but they use a custom wrapper based on the netscape plugin architecture. So that's already fast. To bring it back to the drm discussion .. Zinc can publish for linux, mac and windows.. and is well worth the $ :) (you'd almost think i have a share in them ghehe) Best regards, Dennis Isioux ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [casual_games] Zinc framerate > How foolish, I was trying with a trial version :) thanks for the link ! > > .. However.. :( > I uninstalled/restarted computer/reinstalled Zinc 3.0.8 (trial) but.. > still the same problem (tested with 120 fps + 60 fps).. Is it because I > don't have the full version? It's so weeeeeird.. that I should bother MDM > instead of this list (sorry).. > > Olivier > > ps: Please note we are supposed to "be glad to know that the 3.0.2 > Projectors now run at the same speed as the native Web Flash Player"... > But the Web Flash player is different from the Flash standalone projector. > Flash Web player have also the same framerate penalty in IE, and FF2 (but > no more in FF, since version 3). The Flash standalone projector is were > the framerate is best. > > Olivier > > > > > Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : >> Hey Olivier, >> >> Are you using the full version? >> And also.. did you update the latest builder.. and if you update you >> latest plugins.. make sure you delete the old onces first.. because the >> updating doesn't work that great.. best is to do a complete cleanup. >> >> It should be up to 95% of normal speed atleast.. but in most cases we >> don't see any difference at all anymore. >> Mdm's blog about this beeing resolved: >> http://www.multidmedia.com/blog/?p=23 >> >> Greetz, >> >> Dennis >> Isioux >> >> P.s. I've changed the topic to keep it clean :) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Besson" >> To: "IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:43 AM >> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Protecting downloadable games >> >> >>> It seemed good news, but.. I just checked with version 3.0.6 and 3.08 : >>> - 120 fps becomes 60 fps in zinc projector >>> - 60 fps becomes 40 fps, >>> - etc.. >>> It the same problem as usual with flash activeX :( >>> Is there any option to activate to get this display mode? (I just >>> started a new project, choose the swf and that's it). >>> >>> Olivier >>> >>> Dennis - I Sioux a ?crit : >>>> Actually.. In the beginning of this year i've been in contact with Mdm >>>> (makers of Zinc) about the framerate loss. >>>> They weren't aware that the flash player was faster.. but after >>>> showing some tests they went to look into it. >>>> Now since version 3.0.3(i believe it was) they have changed the way >>>> they render to screen. >>>> >>>> With the old way, they would rendered everything to a buffer first, >>>> after that.. showing it on screen. >>>> Now they don't use the buffer anymore, and it's as fast as the >>>> original flash player. >>>> >>>> Mind that at that time the new changes didn't apply for the demo zinc >>>> and transparant app's >>>> >>>> Dennis >>>> Isioux >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ >>> >>> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >>> http://www.nod32.nl >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ NOD32 3424 (20080907) Informatie __________ >>> >>> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. >>> http://www.nod32.nl >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > __________ NOD32 3426 (20080908) Informatie __________ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > From universedave at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 08:49:02 2008 From: universedave at gmail.com (Dave Rohrl) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 05:49:02 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Call for Topics: Casual Games Summit at GDC 2009 Message-ID: <91a814620809090549x620a7d0ej8fcc1399dbf4e40c@mail.gmail.com> Hi SIG! Once again, Steve Meretzky, Kenny Shea Dinkin, and I are organizing the Casual Games Summit, a two-day tutorial on casual games at the 2009 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco. As always, we will be doing our best to provide a great range of topics that cover the present state of casual games and look into the future at the trends coming at us. We want to cover all of the most important topics in the casual games industry - especially in areas that are new and exciting, and we need your help to make sure we get it right. If you have ideas for lectures or panels you would like to see at the 2009 Casual Games Summit, please send them to us - the organizers - for consideration by THURSDAY September 18. Let us know what you want to hear about, and whether you think a lecture, panel, or debate would be the most effective way to cover it. If you have ideas for speakers feel free to send them along but please be aware that we won't even be thinking about the speaker list for at least 1-2 months. Please email all suggestions to: Steve Meretezy (sem at bluefang.com) - Sr. Game Designer, Blue Fang Games Kenny Shea Dinkin (kenny at playfirst.com) - VP/Creative Director, PlayFirst Dave Rohrl (dave at casualpro.com) - Exec Producer of Casual Games, Zynga and Jennifer Steele (jsteele at think-services.com) - conference Liaison Thanks in advance for your contributions. Last year's suggestions helped us put together a great program and we want this year's summit to be even better. Sincerely yours, Dave Rohrl IGDA Casual Game SIG Chair Casual Game Summit Co-Organizer (2004-2009) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cparcell at toxictoy.com Tue Sep 16 10:43:42 2008 From: cparcell at toxictoy.com (Charles Parcell) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:43:42 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] [OT - Sort of] Adobe Director Roadmap Survey Message-ID: <62A0D4B2F40045CC8346606ACD596158@Kyoto> Dean asked that I post this to this list in hopes that previous and current Director users would take the time to fill out this survey. As some of you may recall, about a year ago, I created and posted a survey for Adobe Director. That survey, like this one, was supported by the folks at Adobe. By support I simply mean that the questions were shown to Adobe and added to prior to its release into the wild. No funds have, are, or will be acquired from Adobe in any shape or form for this survey's maintains. It is for developers by developers and the results are being shared with key people at Adobe. Adobe has its ear to the ground on this one and is looking to make right by the user communities and potential new users moving forward. I would ask that all game developers please take this survey. You may not have ever used Adobe (or Macromedia) Director in the past, but Adobe is looking to make a tool that all game developers would like to use. So, from a potential new users point of view, please fill out the survey and make clear the features you would need in such a tool. If you would like to learn more about Director prior to taking the survey to get a base line where it is currently, then please visit the Adobe Director site (http://www.adobe.com/products/director/) This is the most detailed Director survey in history. It will take 25-45 minutes to complete. The time will depend on how many feature categories you choose to focus on and how many examples you provide. I STRONGLY encourage you download a PDF version of the survey to review the questions and features covered. Once you have put your thoughts together, you can then enter your answers online. I'm using Survey Monkey to manage and collate the survey. Please go to the following URL first: http://www.deansdirectortutorials.com/survey/DirectorRoadmap/ It gives the survey link, the PDF version, and some general info on the survey. The survey is mainly focused on users that develop products with Director. But educators, learners, or anyone else that uses Director in some form other than commercial development, can fill it in. So, spread the word:) Last thing for this email is a thanks to all that helped put this together. This includes input from Ben (Duck), Noisecrime, and various people at Adobe. Special thanks to Thomas McCrystal for his large role in formulating and reviewing questions. Regards, Dean --------------------------------------------------------- My Thanks, Charles P. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From universedave at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 16:09:01 2008 From: universedave at gmail.com (Dave Rohrl) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:09:01 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] DEADLINE APPROACHING: Call for Topics: Casual Games Summit at GDC 2009 Message-ID: <91a814620809161309t6c503facuedca400eb5294a9@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, This is a just a reminder that this call for topics is closing this Thursday, September 18. If you have stuff that you would like to see discussed at the GDC tutorial, please send it in by then! Thanks, The Casual Game Summit Team On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:49 AM, Dave Rohrl wrote: > Hi SIG! > > Once again, Steve Meretzky, Kenny Shea Dinkin, and I are organizing the > Casual Games Summit, a two-day tutorial on casual games at the 2009 Game > Developers Conference in San Francisco. As always, we will be doing our > best to provide a great range of topics that cover the present state of > casual games and look into the future at the trends coming at us. > > We want to cover all of the most important topics in the casual games > industry - especially in areas that are new and exciting, and we need your > help to make sure we get it right. If you have ideas for lectures or panels > you would like to see at the 2009 Casual Games Summit, please send them to > us - the organizers - for consideration by THURSDAY September 18. Let us > know what you want to hear about, and whether you think a lecture, panel, or > debate would be the most effective way to cover it. If you have ideas for > speakers feel free to send them along but please be aware that we won't even > be thinking about the speaker list for at least 1-2 months. > > Please email all suggestions to: > Steve Meretezy (sem at bluefang.com) - Sr. Game Designer, Blue Fang Games > Kenny Shea Dinkin (kenny at playfirst.com) - VP/Creative Director, PlayFirst > Dave Rohrl (dave at casualpro.com) - Exec Producer of Casual Games, Zynga > and Jennifer Steele (jsteele at think-services.com) - conference Liaison > > Thanks in advance for your contributions. Last year's suggestions helped > us put together a great program and we want this year's summit to be even > better. > > > > Sincerely yours, > Dave Rohrl > IGDA Casual Game SIG Chair > Casual Game Summit Co-Organizer (2004-2009) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Thu Sep 18 05:43:22 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:43:22 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Advice on how to include voice over with downloadable games In-Reply-To: References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> Message-ID: <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> Hi there I am developing a series of games that were originally going to be delivered on CDROM but now will be sold online as a download instead. I would like advice on how best to deal with the voice over element of the games. As a CDROM based game, the audio would have been external however I am now wondering what the best approach is with regards including this voice over for a downloadable version. There will be approximately 12mb of mp3 audio comprised of individual files in the region of 50kb each. I am wondering whether to embed all the audio so that the game is self contained or whether I need to have the download as a self extracting executable with the voice over in an external folder. The games will be delivered for both PC and Mac. Thanks Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaron at tandemgames.com Thu Sep 18 10:07:53 2008 From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:07:53 -0500 Subject: [casual_games] Advice on how to include voice over with downloadable games In-Reply-To: <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> Message-ID: <3129a3da0809180707n623f0671r87d2e00c9c1d7198@mail.gmail.com> Hi Paul. What is your main concern with including the VO mp3s in the game bundles? Is the VO the same across the entire series? I'm not sure why you would want to split the game into 2 downloads because that will be quite confusing for many players. 12 MB isn't terribly large either, so your banwidth costs won't be a killer either. Perhaps you can fill us in on the special case scenario that is causing you to consider splitting up the game. Until then, I would recommend keeping the game in one piece in order to avoid confusing players, and making them download/install two pieces to install the game. -Aaron On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Paul Steven wrote: > Hi there > > > > I am developing a series of games that were originally going to be > delivered on CDROM but now will be sold online as a download instead. I > would like advice on how best to deal with the voice over element of the > games. As a CDROM based game, the audio would have been external however I > am now wondering what the best approach is with regards including this voice > over for a downloadable version. There will be approximately 12mb of mp3 > audio comprised of individual files in the region of 50kb each. > > > > I am wondering whether to embed all the audio so that the game is self > contained or whether I need to have the download as a self extracting > executable with the voice over in an external folder. The games will be > delivered for both PC and Mac. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -- Aaron Murray Technical Director, Co-founder Tandem Games www.TandemGames.com www.DomainOfHeroes.com "Fun for All. All for Fun." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asantamaria at artech.ca Thu Sep 18 10:58:54 2008 From: asantamaria at artech.ca (Antonio Santamaria) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:54 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Advice on how to include voice over with downloadable games In-Reply-To: <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> Message-ID: <48D26CAE.9080800@artech.ca> If I'm interpreting this correctly, you are asking whether to have a single large executable, or use a self-extracting or installer to put all the loose files on the drive. When we've done this in the past, on the CD we relied on the Autorun or lone exe in the root, and sometimes not required any kind of install whatsoever. For downloadables though, we've typically used a self-extracting exe, that called a simple installer or stub to add the appropriate start menu icons, add/removes, etc, then extracted the app, and the mp3's to an audio subdirectory from there. For the Mac, you could make a dmg that packages it all together. So basically, from the download point of view I'd be going with one self-extracting file on either platform. Once downloaded, I'd personally be installing a sub-dir for audio and data, and doing the same (via dmg) for the Mac. Tony Paul Steven wrote: > > Hi there > > > > I am developing a series of games that were originally going to be > delivered on CDROM but now will be sold online as a download instead. > I would like advice on how best to deal with the voice over element of > the games. As a CDROM based game, the audio would have been external > however I am now wondering what the best approach is with regards > including this voice over for a downloadable version. There will be > approximately 12mb of mp3 audio comprised of individual files in the > region of 50kb each. > > > > I am wondering whether to embed all the audio so that the game is self > contained or whether I need to have the download as a self extracting > executable with the voice over in an external folder. The games will > be delivered for both PC and Mac. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kbonner at egames.com Thu Sep 18 11:52:23 2008 From: kbonner at egames.com (Kevin Bonner) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:52:23 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Win/Mac compatible logo In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0809180707n623f0671r87d2e00c9c1d7198@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Can anyone tell me if there are specific requirements to using the MAC/PC Compatible logo found on many retail packages? We have a title that works on both, but can't find anyting on the Apple site that seems to address this. Thanks. Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Thu Sep 18 11:03:47 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:03:47 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Advice on how to include voice over with downloadable games In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0809180707n623f0671r87d2e00c9c1d7198@mail.gmail.com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <00c201c91972$fe5613f0$fb023bd0$@com> <3129a3da0809180707n623f0671r87d2e00c9c1d7198@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004001c9199f$c101e0b0$4305a210$@com> Thanks for the reply Aaron. I guess as I am used to either making games on CDROMs that have all voice over as external mp3 files or games on the web that do not have any voice over and just have any whistles and bells internal, I am not familiar with the standard practices for creating downloadable games. I was thinking perhaps there would be some kind of performance affect if all the audio was imported into the library. I am not concerned about the size as the same size will have to be downloaded whether it is internal or external. I guess I just wanted to know how others deal with this and it sounds like keeping everything internal is the way to go. Thanks Paul From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Murray Sent: 18 September 2008 15:08 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advice on how to include voice over with downloadable games Hi Paul. What is your main concern with including the VO mp3s in the game bundles? Is the VO the same across the entire series? I'm not sure why you would want to split the game into 2 downloads because that will be quite confusing for many players. 12 MB isn't terribly large either, so your banwidth costs won't be a killer either. Perhaps you can fill us in on the special case scenario that is causing you to consider splitting up the game. Until then, I would recommend keeping the game in one piece in order to avoid confusing players, and making them download/install two pieces to install the game. -Aaron On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Paul Steven wrote: Hi there I am developing a series of games that were originally going to be delivered on CDROM but now will be sold online as a download instead. I would like advice on how best to deal with the voice over element of the games. As a CDROM based game, the audio would have been external however I am now wondering what the best approach is with regards including this voice over for a downloadable version. There will be approximately 12mb of mp3 audio comprised of individual files in the region of 50kb each. I am wondering whether to embed all the audio so that the game is self contained or whether I need to have the download as a self extracting executable with the voice over in an external folder. The games will be delivered for both PC and Mac. Thanks Paul _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -- Aaron Murray Technical Director, Co-founder Tandem Games www.TandemGames.com www.DomainOfHeroes.com "Fun for All. All for Fun." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 04:14:35 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:14:35 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> Message-ID: <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted to cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just worked on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves me hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want to cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a starting point? Any advice much appreciated. Thanks Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scylla.costa at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 06:47:56 2008 From: scylla.costa at gmail.com (Scylla Costa) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:47:56 +0300 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> Message-ID: <6f57f4f0809200347y2565173bg87df17ebd8ac15ac@mail.gmail.com> Hi Paul, Did you check the template contract and NDA on the SIG page? http://www.igda.org/wiki/Casual_Games_SIG []s, Scylla. Production Director - Sumea - Digital Chocolate On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Paul Steven wrote: > I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted > to cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just > worked on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves > me hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want > to cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some > guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a > starting point? > > > > Any advice much appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fxpimp at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 14:32:19 2008 From: fxpimp at gmail.com (J R) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:32:19 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> Message-ID: I bought and have used these in the past for assets. http://www.gamedevkit.com/ -- JR, Gun for hire. Current Project: The Watchmen On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Paul Steven wrote: > I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted to > cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just worked > on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves me > hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want to > cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some > guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a > starting point? > > > > Any advice much appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > From thb at gameattorney.com Sat Sep 20 15:04:39 2008 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:04:39 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> Message-ID: <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> It comes with a free consult and a discount on the initial 10 hours of attorney time as well. :-D Tom B At 11:32 AM 9/20/2008, you wrote: >I bought and have used these in the past for assets. > >http://www.gamedevkit.com/ > >-- >JR, Gun for hire. >Current Project: The Watchmen > >On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Paul Steven > wrote: > > I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted to > > cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just worked > > on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves me > > hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want to > > cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some > > guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a > > starting point? > > > > > > > > Any advice much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Casual_Games mailing list > > Casual_Games at igda.org > > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > > Archive Search: > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > > List FAQ: > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Casual_Games mailing list >Casual_Games at igda.org >http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive Search: >http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >List FAQ: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney 23133 Vashon Highway SW Vashon WA 98070 Tel (206) 463-9200 Fax (206) 463-9290 http://www.gameattorney.com TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? ?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] industry that everybody gets screwed on their first deal, I'm doing my best to make sure that that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.? Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007. Confidential: This email, including any attachments, contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? 2510, et seq. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Sun Sep 21 03:08:35 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:08:35 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> Message-ID: <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> Sounds good! How relevant is this to the UK? From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas H. Buscaglia Sent: 20 September 2008 20:05 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development It comes with a free consult and a discount on the initial 10 hours of attorney time as well. :-D Tom B At 11:32 AM 9/20/2008, you wrote: I bought and have used these in the past for assets. http://www.gamedevkit.com/ -- JR, Gun for hire. Current Project: The Watchmen On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Paul Steven wrote: > I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted to > cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just worked > on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves me > hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want to > cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some > guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a > starting point? > > > > Any advice much appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney 23133 Vashon Highway SW Vashon WA 98070 Tel (206) 463-9200 Fax (206) 463-9290 http://www.gameattorney.com TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? ?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] industry that everybody gets screwed on their first deal, I'm doing my best to make sure that that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.? Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007. Confidential: This email, including any attachments, contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? 2510, et seq. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thb at gameattorney.com Sun Sep 21 13:22:51 2008 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:22:51 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development Message-ID: <200809211723.m8LHNtY28340@dev-biz.com> The Contributor Agreement in the Kit is generic in nature and was drafted based on US law. As far as I know it is theoretically solid as far as hitting all of the relevant issues. However, I would recommend running it past a local solicitor prior to using just to make sure it comports with any unique UK legal issues and to modify the "dispute resolution" section to comport with UK law. Tom B At 12:08 AM 9/21/2008, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C91BC1.3FEFAD80" >Content-Language: en-gb > >Sounds good! How relevant is this to the UK? ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney 23133 Vashon Highway SW Vashon WA 98070 Tel (206) 463-9200 Fax (206) 463-9290 http://www.gameattorney.com TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? ?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] industry that everybody gets screwed on their first deal, I'm doing my best to make sure that that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.? Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007. Confidential: This email, including any attachments, contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? 2510, et seq. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Mon Sep 22 02:22:23 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:22:23 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Minimum System Requirements for Flash Games In-Reply-To: <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> Message-ID: <00a101c91c7b$94037720$bc0a6560$@com> I am struggling to find the information regarding the minimum system requirements to play a game developed in Flash CS3. I am developing 4 games that must run on both Mac and PC computers and need to included details of the minimum system requirements required. My games will be standalone executables with embedded mp3 audio. I will be packaging the games in the latest version of MDM Zinc. The game dimensions will be 800 by 600 pixels. Any advice much appreciated. The following info is the sort of thing I need Required Operating Systems Minimum Processor Minimum Memory Monitor Screen Resolution Graphics Card Sound Card Headphones or Speakers Mouse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Mon Sep 22 02:32:32 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:32:32 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Any significant difference in file size of male vs female voice over In-Reply-To: <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> Message-ID: <00b201c91c7c$feea2510$fcbe6f30$@com> I seem to recall from many years ago that there was a significant difference in flie size between female and male voice over recordings. My client has specified a desire for a female voice over artist for the voice over in a series of downloadable games and I just wanted to check if using a male voice over artist would significantly reduce the file size. There will be quite a lot of voice over - approx 10 to 20mb per game. Thanks in advance Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asantamaria at artech.ca Mon Sep 22 13:14:47 2008 From: asantamaria at artech.ca (Antonio Santamaria) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:14:47 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Any significant difference in file size of male vs female voice over In-Reply-To: <00b201c91c7c$feea2510$fcbe6f30$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> <00b201c91c7c$feea2510$fcbe6f30$@com> Message-ID: <48D7D287.8000600@artech.ca> Not sure if this helps, but I have a project that contains the following: - 2 male voices, 2 female voices - 126 audio files per person, all the same lines - most between 2 to 3 seconds each. As 22Khz, 16-bit mono wav's: Male 1: 14.5 Megs Male 2: 10.3 Megs Female 1: 13.3 Megs Female 2: 14.7 Megs As 22Khz, 128-bit mp3's, mono: Male 1: 5.45 Megs Male 2: 3.92 Megs Female 1: 4.98 Megs Female 2: 5.52 Megs Note that there was no requirement that actors fall within a specific time length. The speed at which they read largely depended on who was reading (these were pro's). Antonio Paul Steven wrote: > > I seem to recall from many years ago that there was a significant > difference in flie size between female and male voice over recordings. > My client has specified a desire for a female voice over artist for > the voice over in a series of downloadable games and I just wanted to > check if using a male voice over artist would significantly reduce the > file size. There will be quite a lot of voice over -- approx 10 to > 20mb per game. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_steven at btinternet.com Mon Sep 22 13:33:10 2008 From: paul_steven at btinternet.com (Paul Steven) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:33:10 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Any significant difference in file size of male vs female voice over In-Reply-To: <48D7D287.8000600@artech.ca> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> <00b201c91c7c$feea2510$fcbe6f30$@com> <48D7D287.8000600@artech.ca> Message-ID: <001e01c91cd9$4921e990$db65bcb0$@com> Thanks Antonio - that is most useful. Paul From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Santamaria Sent: 22 September 2008 18:15 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Any significant difference in file size of male vs female voice over Not sure if this helps, but I have a project that contains the following: - 2 male voices, 2 female voices - 126 audio files per person, all the same lines - most between 2 to 3 seconds each. As 22Khz, 16-bit mono wav's: Male 1: 14.5 Megs Male 2: 10.3 Megs Female 1: 13.3 Megs Female 2: 14.7 Megs As 22Khz, 128-bit mp3's, mono: Male 1: 5.45 Megs Male 2: 3.92 Megs Female 1: 4.98 Megs Female 2: 5.52 Megs Note that there was no requirement that actors fall within a specific time length. The speed at which they read largely depended on who was reading (these were pro's). Antonio Paul Steven wrote: I seem to recall from many years ago that there was a significant difference in flie size between female and male voice over recordings. My client has specified a desire for a female voice over artist for the voice over in a series of downloadable games and I just wanted to check if using a male voice over artist would significantly reduce the file size. There will be quite a lot of voice over - approx 10 to 20mb per game. Thanks in advance Paul _____ _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thb at gameattorney.com Sun Sep 21 13:16:59 2008 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development In-Reply-To: <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> References: <223926C52C8EBF4DB30570260B67827303D22ACD@ex-be-006-sfo.shared.themessagecenter.com> <001a01c91af8$eb7450d0$c25cf270$@com> <200809201905.m8KJ5iY99271@dev-biz.com> <00c601c91bb8$de2b4580$9a81d080$@com> Message-ID: <200809211718.m8LHI2Y27332@dev-biz.com> The Contributor Agreement in the Kit was drafted based on US law. As far as I know it is theoretically solid as far as hitting all of the relevant issues. However, I would recommend running it past a local solicitor prior to using just to make sure it comports with any unique UK legal issues and to modify the "dispute resolution" section to comport with UK law. Tom B At 12:08 AM 9/21/2008, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C91BC1.3FEFAD80" >Content-Language: en-gb > >Sounds good! How relevant is this to the UK? > >From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org >[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas H. Buscaglia >Sent: 20 September 2008 20:05 >To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [casual_games] Sample contracts for game development > >It comes with a free consult and a discount on >the initial 10 hours of attorney time as well. :-D > >Tom B > >At 11:32 AM 9/20/2008, you wrote: > >I bought and have used these in the past for assets. > >http://www.gamedevkit.com/ > >-- >JR, Gun for hire. >Current Project: The Watchmen > >On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Paul Steven > wrote: > > I am developing a series of 4 downloadable games for a client and wanted to > > cover myself by drawing up a contract. I have previously always just worked > > on a principle of trust but as this is quite a large job and involves me > > hiring voice over artists, graphic designers and script writers, I want to > > cover myself. Never having written a contract before I could do with some > > guidance. Perhaps there are some sample contracts I can download as a > > starting point? > > > > > > > > Any advice much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Casual_Games mailing list > > Casual_Games at igda.org > > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > > Archive: > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > > Archive Search: > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > > > List FAQ: > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Casual_Games mailing list >Casual_Games at igda.org >http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive: >http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive Search: >http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > >List FAQ: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > >???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >The Game Attorney >23133 Vashon Highway SW >Vashon WA 98070 >Tel (206) 463-9200 >Fax (206) 463-9290 >http://www.gameattorney.com >TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW >???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > >?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] >industry that everybody gets screwed on their >first deal, I'm doing my best to make sure that >that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.? >Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007. > >Confidential: This email, including any >attachments, contains communications protected >by the attorney-client privilege and the >Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? >2510, et seq. If you do not expect such a >communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please >delete this message without reading it or any >attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at >thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. >_______________________________________________ >Casual_Games mailing list >Casual_Games at igda.org >http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >Archive Search: >http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >List FAQ: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney 23133 Vashon Highway SW Vashon WA 98070 Tel (206) 463-9200 Fax (206) 463-9290 http://www.gameattorney.com TOLL FREE 888-848-GLAW ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? ?There?s been this tradition in the [video-game] industry that everybody gets screwed on their first deal, I'm doing my best to make sure that that becomes a historical anecdote instead of the way we do business.? Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney - Lawyers Weekly, December 3, 2007. Confidential: This email, including any attachments, contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC ?? 2510, et seq. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talshannon at hotmail.com Tue Sep 23 20:30:14 2008 From: talshannon at hotmail.com (Audry Taylor) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:30:14 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? Message-ID: Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? Are they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) -A _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaron at tandemgames.com Tue Sep 23 21:03:53 2008 From: aaron at tandemgames.com (Aaron Murray) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:03:53 -0500 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3129a3da0809231803t7683fa8dy84be3acee467d5f4@mail.gmail.com> We've used Garage Games' Torque engine on past projects. We won the 2008 Game Demo Contest for best graphics on integrated hardware using it. It is a decent engine, though there are many others. -Aaron -- Aaron Murray Technical Director, Co-founder Tandem Games www.TandemGames.com www.DomainOfHeroes.com "Fun for All. All for Fun." On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Audry Taylor wrote: > Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? > Are they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? > > (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) > > -A > > > ------------------------------ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn > Now > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fxpimp at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 21:08:07 2008 From: fxpimp at gmail.com (J R) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:08:07 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is always room for improvement and growth. There are some good engines out there depending on your needs and most of are rather extensible. My personal favs of the crossplatform variety are Unity 3D, Torque Game Builder, and Flash. Most types of titles can be put together in any of the packages. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Audry Taylor wrote: > Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? Are > they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? > > (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) > > -A > > > ________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. > Learn Now > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > From Lennard at RustyAxe.com Tue Sep 23 21:26:48 2008 From: Lennard at RustyAxe.com (Lennard) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:26:48 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D99758.9050902@RustyAxe.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at article19.com Tue Sep 23 21:31:36 2008 From: rob at article19.com (Robert Gordon) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:31:36 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <48D99758.9050902@RustyAxe.com> Message-ID: Correct. I know many Flash developers who never even open Flash...it?s all done in code...and those who do use the timeline, essentially use it for laying out UIs. Good luck to your son ? he?s definitely working with a worthwhile tool! r o b | Robert Gordon | The Article 19 Group Inc. | phone: 514.938.8512 | email: rob at article19.com | http://www.article19.com From: Lennard Reply-To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:26:48 -0700 To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Casual Tools? A quick Flash question since we are on the topic from a caveman C/C++ guy. My 15 year old is working on a game design and talking about timelines and movie clips in Flash. I've always assumed you could use Action Script in a more traditional "main loop" kind of programming model as well - is that correct? Sorry for the hijack - dinner conversation was interesting tonight - he's at that point where he kind of knows how to do things in a certain way and is bull headed about accomplishing them that way. Which is all fine - I just want to make sure I'm not leading him down the garden path by telling him that there are other ways to skin this cat. Thanks in advance, Lennard Feddersen CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc. www.RustyAxe.com Lennard at RustyAxe.com P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466 P. July & August 518-863-2317 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2 J R wrote: > > There is always room for improvement and growth. There are some good > engines out there depending on your needs and most of are rather > extensible. > > My personal favs of the crossplatform variety are Unity 3D, Torque > Game Builder, and Flash. > > Most types of titles can be put together in any of the packages. > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Audry Taylor > wrote: > > >> >> Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? Are >> they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? >> >> (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) >> >> -A >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. >> Learn Now >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > > _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hal at finitearts.com Tue Sep 23 21:34:31 2008 From: hal at finitearts.com (Hal Barwood) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:34:31 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <48D99758.9050902@RustyAxe.com> References: <48D99758.9050902@RustyAxe.com> Message-ID: <48D99927.3080701@finitearts.com> Flash timeline: it's there, but one rarely uses it. For practical purposes, an entire game can ride in 1 frame. There are wrinkles, of course, but timelines in Flash are mostly for embedded movie clips running inside a larger structure with traditional main loops, etc. Lennard wrote: > A quick Flash question since we are on the topic from a caveman C/C++ > guy. My 15 year old is working on a game design and talking about > timelines and movie clips in Flash. I've always assumed you could use > Action Script in a more traditional "main loop" kind of programming > model as well - is that correct? > > Sorry for the hijack - dinner conversation was interesting tonight - > he's at that point where he kind of knows how to do things in a certain > way and is bull headed about accomplishing them that way. Which is all > fine - I just want to make sure I'm not leading him down the garden path > by telling him that there are other ways to skin this cat. > > Thanks in advance, > > Lennard Feddersen > CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc. > www.RustyAxe.com > > Lennard at RustyAxe.com > P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466 > P. July & August 518-863-2317 > 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2 > > > > J R wrote: >> There is always room for improvement and growth. There are some good >> engines out there depending on your needs and most of are rather >> extensible. >> >> My personal favs of the crossplatform variety are Unity 3D, Torque >> Game Builder, and Flash. >> >> Most types of titles can be put together in any of the packages. >> >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Audry Taylor wrote: >> >>> Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? Are >>> they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? >>> >>> (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) >>> >>> -A >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. >>> Learn Now >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : -------------- next part -------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.156 / Virus Database: 270.6.20/1666 - Release Date: 9/11/2008 7:03 AM From dbahlman at xblitz.com Tue Sep 23 21:36:32 2008 From: dbahlman at xblitz.com (Donald Bahlman) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:36:32 +0000 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? Message-ID: <626322734-1222220123-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-247846055-@bxe282.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> That is an interesting question. I think it would be cool to have a kind of storyboarding engine that one could quickly and easily generate and test game concepts. This might even work as a subscription, to allow for auto-online updates to the engine. And you would want it to be browser compatble. Anyways, that's my two centsm Don xBlitz Entertainment www.xblitz.com ------Original Message------ From: Audry Taylor Sender: casual_games-bounces at igda.org To: casual games ReplyTo: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? Sent: Sep 23, 2008 7:30 PM Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector?? Are they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth?? (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) -A ---------------- Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From austin at pettomato.com Tue Sep 23 22:35:58 2008 From: austin at pettomato.com (Austin Haas) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:35:58 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <48D99927.3080701@finitearts.com> References: <48D99758.9050902@RustyAxe.com> <48D99927.3080701@finitearts.com> Message-ID: <20080924023558.GC18349@bean.chicago> IMO, the best thing a Flash developer can do is think of a movieclip as another art asset, like a bitmap or video, otherwise it becomes a significant handicap. I often see people trying to reinvent every last wheel assuming things have to be done "the Flash way." Unless you are doing very trivial things, like a Flash website, that movieclip-centric way of coding is only going to make things more scattered, complicated, and inflexible in the long run. The only benefit to the movieclip/timeline-centric style is that it can be quicker to do very trivial things. The few times we've used movieclips in the past three years were for some animations that were either easier to set up using the Flash IDE or resulted in much smaller files than if we had made sprite sheets. -austin -- Austin Haas Pet Tomato, Inc. http://pettomato.com On Tue Sep 23 18:34 , Hal Barwood wrote: > Flash timeline: it's there, but one rarely uses it. For practical > purposes, an entire game can ride in 1 frame. There are wrinkles, of > course, but timelines in Flash are mostly for embedded movie clips running > inside a larger structure with traditional main loops, etc. > > Lennard wrote: >> A quick Flash question since we are on the topic from a caveman C/C++ guy. >> My 15 year old is working on a game design and talking about timelines >> and movie clips in Flash. I've always assumed you could use Action Script >> in a more traditional "main loop" kind of programming model as well - is >> that correct? >> Sorry for the hijack - dinner conversation was interesting tonight - he's >> at that point where he kind of knows how to do things in a certain way and >> is bull headed about accomplishing them that way. Which is all fine - I >> just want to make sure I'm not leading him down the garden path by telling >> him that there are other ways to skin this cat. >> Thanks in advance, >> Lennard Feddersen >> CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc. >> www.RustyAxe.com >> Lennard at RustyAxe.com >> P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466 >> P. July & August 518-863-2317 >> 5014 Walsh, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4H2 >> J R wrote: >>> There is always room for improvement and growth. There are some good >>> engines out there depending on your needs and most of are rather >>> extensible. >>> >>> My personal favs of the crossplatform variety are Unity 3D, Torque >>> Game Builder, and Flash. >>> >>> Most types of titles can be put together in any of the packages. >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Audry Taylor >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Are there many game engines or middleware tools for the Casual sector? >>>> Are >>>> they good or would you say this is an area that has room for growth? >>>> >>>> (I thought the subject might spark a little conversation!) >>>> >>>> -A >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. >>>> Learn Now >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Casual_Games mailing list >>>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>>> Archive Search: >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>>> List FAQ: >>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Casual_Games mailing list >>> Casual_Games at igda.org >>> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >>> Archive Search: >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >>> List FAQ: >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Casual_Games mailing list >> Casual_Games at igda.org >> http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe >> Archive Search: >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 >> List FAQ: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ Content-Description: "AVG certification" > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.156 / Virus Database: 270.6.20/1666 - Release Date: 9/11/2008 7:03 AM > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ From jmurray at fuelindustries.com Wed Sep 24 09:55:55 2008 From: jmurray at fuelindustries.com (Jeff Murray) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:55:55 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <3129a3da0809231803t7683fa8dy84be3acee467d5f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Aaron .. Good surname ? I don?t think we?re related ;) Off the top of my head, here are the ones I would consider... Unity3d ? Excellent 3d engine and awesome support. Downside is Mac-only authoring, but well worth the switch. Not too great on UI or 2d at the moment, though, so UI-intensive games may be a pain to implement. Extremely nice to use and you can get things up and running very quickly. Popcap framework ? If you want to go the C++ route, there are a few frameworks available and Popcap is probably the most well-known of them. There?s also Playground and a few other good ones, though be sure to read the licensing agreements carefully first. You are certain to get great looking, polished results as long as you?re willing to put in the extra coding time. Flash ? Flash is absolutely awesome for 2d games, though it can be a little tricky with performance when you get into the more complex eye-candy. Hopefully that will change with the new Flash version, which allegedly has hardware rendering capability. We?ve produced a lot of Flash games, though mainly advergames or mini-games as opposed to full-blown titles. Director is still pretty good for download games and can be a solid solution as long as you aren?t asking for too much because of the dated engine. It?s got an uncertain future, sadly, as it used to be a leader in the field. BlitzMax ? Nice little engine (very low cost) mainly for 2d games, but I think someone wrote a 3d plugin. Ideal for budget projects, but can be a little cumbersome due to it?s custom language implementation. Torque Game Builder ? Very cool for getting things going fast, though if you want to do things that aren?t ?out of the box? you may have to dig into the engine code a little more than you might like. Torque Game Engine ? Great for 3d budget games, but the engine is a little dated and source code is messy and can be awkward to work with. We?ve produced two retail titles with TGE and the game engine side has always proved to be that way. C4 Game Engine ? I haven?t actually used it, but I hear good things. Seems like a nice budget-level engine. Gamebryo Casual ? Gamebryo now have a casual version of their AAA level game engine. Licencing costs may be out of reach for smaller studios, but you can guarantee that it?s going to be a high class result. As this is C++ coding, though, it may mean an extended production cycle compared to something like Unity or Flash. As for audio, a friend of mine recently found and passed on a link to this awesome audio library, specifically designed for casual games ... http://somaengineering.com/demo_video.html Sadly, I don?t know what the licensing costs are yet and I haven?t been able to check it out fully. Definitely something I want to look into, since it gives your audio guys complete control over game audio and gives them a lot of freedom to create more dynamic audioscapes. JeffM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at fugazo.com Wed Sep 24 12:22:04 2008 From: andrew at fugazo.com (Andrew Lum) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:22:04 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48DA692C.6060002@fugazo.com> All of the games we've done at Fugazo (Fashion Fits, Cooking Academy, World Mosaics) have used the PopCap Framework. However, as far as I know there are no longer providing updates to the framework so at this point we're making our own changes to the Framework to suit our needs. The only requirements for PopCap are to list the framework in the credits. If I'm mistaken and PopCap is still providing updates to the Framework please let me know! Andrew Lum Jeff Murray wrote: > Hey Aaron .. Good surname ? I don?t think we?re related ;) > > Off the top of my head, here are the ones I would consider... > > Unity3d ? Excellent 3d engine and awesome support. Downside is > Mac-only authoring, but well worth the switch. Not too great on UI or > 2d at the moment, though, so UI-intensive games may be a pain to > implement. Extremely nice to use and you can get things up and running > very quickly. > > Popcap framework ? If you want to go the C++ route, there are a few > frameworks available and Popcap is probably the most well-known of > them. There?s also Playground and a few other good ones, though be > sure to read the licensing agreements carefully first. You are certain > to get great looking, polished results as long as you?re willing to > put in the extra coding time. > > Flash ? Flash is absolutely awesome for 2d games, though it can be a > little tricky with performance when you get into the more complex > eye-candy. Hopefully that will change with the new Flash version, > which allegedly has hardware rendering capability. We?ve produced a > lot of Flash games, though mainly advergames or mini-games as opposed > to full-blown titles. > > Director is still pretty good for download games and can be a solid > solution as long as you aren?t asking for too much because of the > dated engine. It?s got an uncertain future, sadly, as it used to be a > leader in the field. > > BlitzMax ? Nice little engine (very low cost) mainly for 2d games, but > I think someone wrote a 3d plugin. Ideal for budget projects, but can > be a little cumbersome due to it?s custom language implementation. > > Torque Game Builder ? Very cool for getting things going fast, though > if you want to do things that aren?t ?out of the box? you may have to > dig into the engine code a little more than you might like. > > Torque Game Engine ? Great for 3d budget games, but the engine is a > little dated and source code is messy and can be awkward to work with. > We?ve produced two retail titles with TGE and the game engine side has > always proved to be that way. > > C4 Game Engine ? I haven?t actually used it, but I hear good things. > Seems like a nice budget-level engine. > > Gamebryo Casual ? Gamebryo now have a casual version of their AAA > level game engine. Licencing costs may be out of reach for smaller > studios, but you can guarantee that it?s going to be a high class > result. As this is C++ coding, though, it may mean an extended > production cycle compared to something like Unity or Flash. > > As for audio, a friend of mine recently found and passed on a link to > this awesome audio library, specifically designed for casual games ... > http://somaengineering.com/demo_video.html > > Sadly, I don?t know what the licensing costs are yet and I haven?t > been able to check it out fully. Definitely something I want to look > into, since it gives your audio guys complete control over game audio > and gives them a lot of freedom to create more dynamic audioscapes. > > JeffM > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > -- Andrew Lum andrew at fugazo.com www.fugazo.com P: 206-349-7805 F: 206-568-3455 CEO, President Fugazo, Inc. From john at mofactor.com Wed Sep 24 12:57:52 2008 From: john at mofactor.com (john at mofactor.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <48DA692C.6060002@fugazo.com> References: <48DA692C.6060002@fugazo.com> Message-ID: <4073.76.230.122.126.1222275472.squirrel@mail.mofactor.com> [expansive list of engines deleted] What about the playfirst playground sdk? I have heard good things about it. https://developer.playfirst.com/ From dfox at iwin.com Wed Sep 24 13:00:11 2008 From: dfox at iwin.com (David Fox) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:00:11 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <4073.76.230.122.126.1222275472.squirrel@mail.mofactor.com> References: <48DA692C.6060002@fugazo.com> <4073.76.230.122.126.1222275472.squirrel@mail.mofactor.com> Message-ID: A matrix comparing the features of various casual game engines can be found here: http://davidfox.googlepages.com/casual_frameworks.xls A bit of out of date (from last year's GDC), but hopefully helpful. -David Fox From Striche at yatecgames.com Wed Sep 24 13:02:50 2008 From: Striche at yatecgames.com (Stephen Triche) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:02:50 -0500 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: <4073.76.230.122.126.1222275472.squirrel@mail.mofactor.com> References: <48DA692C.6060002@fugazo.com> <4073.76.230.122.126.1222275472.squirrel@mail.mofactor.com> Message-ID: <2C3C0055DBC265469AB603971AAF8C0910A588@SBS0001.sbsdom.local> One thing about Playground is that they do not distribute the source, so you're at their mercy when it comes to bug-fixes and updates. -Stephen Triche -----Original Message----- From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of john at mofactor.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:58 AM To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [casual_games] Casual Tools? [expansive list of engines deleted] What about the playfirst playground sdk? I have heard good things about it. https://developer.playfirst.com/ _______________________________________________ Casual_Games mailing list Casual_Games at igda.org http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe Archive Search: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 List FAQ: http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FA Q From kane at somatone.com Wed Sep 24 14:14:20 2008 From: kane at somatone.com (Kane Minkus) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:14:20 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Casual Tools? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A great new middleware technology to also consider for Audio Design is called CADI. It is the Casual Games Audio Design Interface. You can check out more about it here - http://somaengineering.com/demo_video.html. It is one of the only audio engine middleware technologies we know about specifically designed for Casual Games. Best, Kane Minkus :: Managing Partner SomaTone Interactive Audio :: Audio Construction Specialists www.somatone.com :: 415.425.8681 Mobile SomaTone Studios SF 1323 61st St :: Emeryville, CA 94608 510.420.0190 Studio :: 510.420.0191 Fax SomaTone Studios LA 1431 7th St :: Suite 206 :: Santa Monica, CA 90401 310.451.3282 Studio & Fax SomaTone Studios Canada 1062 Homer St :: Suite 301 :: Vancouver, BC V6B2W9 604.689.2910 Studio :: 604.689.2912 Fax SomaTone Studios Europe Munich, Germany Kaagangerstrasse 14 82279 Eching am Ammersee +(49) 8143 99 26020 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5942 bytes Desc: not available Url : From invite+aq5ek4rx at facebookmail.com Sat Sep 27 09:02:27 2008 From: invite+aq5ek4rx at facebookmail.com (Sebastian Hernandez) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 06:02:27 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Check out my Facebook profile Message-ID: <72ab7783784a786c9d4a8e9fca36c0d6@register.facebook.com> I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Sebastian Here's the link: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1067015637&k=YWD456RSQ32M5BDBTJYTYR&r&v=2 ___________________ This e-mail may contain promotional materials. If you do not wish to receive future commercial mailings from Facebook, please click on the link below. Facebook's offices are located at 156 University Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94301. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?u=1002586886&k=527ab8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jade at futurlab.co.uk Mon Sep 29 07:43:43 2008 From: jade at futurlab.co.uk (Jade Tidy) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:43:43 +0100 Subject: [casual_games] Design resources Message-ID: Hey, Can you recommend any books, websites or forums that can help expand my knowledge for game design? The areas I'm specifically interested in are UI & level design, especially how visuals can dictate play. Many thanks, Jade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juangril at jojugames.com Mon Sep 29 12:27:06 2008 From: juangril at jojugames.com (Juan Gril) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:27:06 -0700 Subject: [casual_games] Design resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86d373b40809290927o7d671aecu5ff13cb8351465c1@mail.gmail.com> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Casual_Games_SIG/Whitepaper/Production_and_Design On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Jade Tidy wrote: > Hey, > > Can you recommend any books, websites or forums that can help expand my > knowledge for game design? The areas I'm specifically interested in are UI & > level design, especially how visuals can dictate play. > > Many thanks, > > Jade > > > _______________________________________________ > Casual_Games mailing list > Casual_Games at igda.org > http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive: http://www.igda.org/casual-subscribe > Archive Search: > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=010373383720242846960%3Az3tdwggxil8 > List FAQ: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Casual_Games_SIG/Casual_Games_List_FAQ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james at WDDG.com Tue Sep 30 21:00:04 2008 From: james at WDDG.com (James Baker - WDDG/Funtank) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:00:04 -0400 Subject: [casual_games] Up and coming CMMOs In-Reply-To: <86d373b40809290927o7d671aecu5ff13cb8351465c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d373b40809290927o7d671aecu5ff13cb8351465c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone is keeping an eye on the current crop of CMMOs. I've been seeing quite a few pop up recently, so I was curious if anyone thought that any of these new contenders might have a chance at being a new puzzle-pirates or club-penguin. At Candystand.com we're looking to possibly partner with one (or a couple) of the CMMOs. Thanks! James Baker WDDG/Funtank candystand.com james at wddg.com james at candystand.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin at 3rdsense.com Tue Sep 30 22:07:37 2008 From: colin at 3rdsense.com (Colin Cardwell) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:07:37 +1000 Subject: [casual_games] Up and coming CMMOs In-Reply-To: References: <86d373b40809290927o7d671aecu5ff13cb8351465c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004701c9236a$7c27f9f0$7477edd0$@com> Mmm... I'm expecting a load of them in time for Christmas. We've got a multiplayer version of Swords and Sandals 3 coming out in about a month. We've been beta testing it on Fizzy for members only and getting about 400-500 players in at any one time. We're using smartfox server (like club penguin). We've taken it down while we launch the single player version of the game, but the full multiplayer version will be available from the beginning of November on Fizzy. Feedback has generally been good. On the commercial side, we're using the game as the foundation stone of a new subscription service on Fizzy. I'm looking forward to seeing if the returns justify the investment ;) Cheers Colin Colin Colin Cardwell CEO m +61 (0) 401 888 322 p +61 2 8923 1200 f +61 2 8904 9966 3RD sense Australia Pty Ltd Unit 8.04 6a Glenn St Milsons Point, NSW 2061 www.3rdsense.com Have you been to Fizzy today? From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of James Baker - WDDG/Funtank Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 11:00 AM To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List Subject: [casual_games] Up and coming CMMOs I was wondering if anyone is keeping an eye on the current crop of CMMOs. I've been seeing quite a few pop up recently, so I was curious if anyone thought that any of these new contenders might have a chance at being a new puzzle-pirates or club-penguin. At Candystand.com we're looking to possibly partner with one (or a couple) of the CMMOs. Thanks! James Baker WDDG/Funtank candystand.com j ames at wddg.com james at candystand.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3421 bytes Desc: not available Url :