From gwalek at ccsnh.edu Tue Sep 1 16:22:15 2009 From: gwalek at ccsnh.edu (Gregory Walek) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:22:15 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data In-Reply-To: <4A93C34F0200004600027CEE@gwstaff.wit.ie> References: <4A93C34F0200004600027CEE@gwstaff.wit.ie> Message-ID: Does anyone have (or point me in the direction of) data from the Dept. of Labor that shows women are a minority in game development? Gregory Walek Professor, Animation and Graphic Game Programming gWalek at ccsnh.edu New Hampshire Technical Institute 31 College Drive Concord, NH 03301-7412 Office: 603.271.7707 From swatjester at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 17:03:58 2009 From: swatjester at gmail.com (Dan Rosenthal) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:03:58 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data In-Reply-To: References: <4A93C34F0200004600027CEE@gwstaff.wit.ie> Message-ID: <8F01FAC4-6B29-4685-B169-E2EA7C72B557@gmail.com> Gregory, I researched briefly. There is a 2000 report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which mentions that they did not have numbers on game development and were relying on industry sources (in fact, the report seemed to have been heavily influenced by industry lobbyists). http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2000/summer/art01.htm It appears to be the only report that BLS has on game development available on the web. IGDA has a more recent study (2005) showing 11.5% of game developers polled in 2005 responded as female; core development roles such as programming, design, etc. were distributed similarly (appx. 11%). Other roles such as HR, IT, and writing, had significantly higher distributions of females. Perhaps someone who was involved in the study findings can help more. http://www.igda.org/diversity/IGDA_DeveloperDemographics_Oct05.pdf Game Developer Magazine has a 2004-2007 salary report that might be of use to you as well; it's pay-to-download for an extraordinary fee. Hope this helps. -Dan On Sep 1, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Gregory Walek wrote: > > Does anyone have (or point me in the direction of) data from the Dept. > of Labor that shows women are a minority in game development? > > > Gregory Walek > Professor, Animation and Graphic Game Programming > gWalek at ccsnh.edu > > New Hampshire Technical Institute > 31 College Drive > Concord, NH 03301-7412 > Office: 603.271.7707 > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From gwalek at ccsnh.edu Thu Sep 3 16:13:02 2009 From: gwalek at ccsnh.edu (Gregory Walek) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:13:02 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data Message-ID: Thanks lead on the 2000 report, Dan. That lead me to The US Beaureau of Labor Statistics (which is apart of the Dept of Labor) The email below is the information I got back from them. I hope this helps someone else as it does me. - Greg ________________________________ From: Gillham, Cynthia - BLS [mailto:Gillham.Cynthia at bls.gov] Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:53 PM To: Gregory Walek Subject: % of females in gaming industry Hello, The correct NAICS code for the gaming industry is 334511, and our industry classification system was last updated in 2007, not 2002 as I mentioned incorrectly. I cant find data for the % of female workers in this industry, though, because it's such a detailed industry classification. Instead, I found that within the computer software engineer occupation there are 1,034 thousand employees and 20.9 percent are women. The data is available from this link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/ee/empearn200901.pdf , on page 212/320. In comparison 46.7 percent of those employed are women across all industries. Gaming occupations are included in the computer software engineer occupation, Standard Occupational Classification 15-1030. More specifically, they are included in the Computer Software Engineers, Applications occupation, but we do not have data at that level of detail. This broad occupation includes the following two detailed occupations: Computer Software Engineers, Applications - Develop, create, and modify general computer applications software or specialized utility programs. Analyze needs and develop software. Design software or customize software. Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software - Research, design, develop, and test operating systems-level software. Please feel to contact me with any additional questions. Thanks, Cynthia Gillham Bureau of Labor Statistics Economic Analysis & Information Boston, MA Phone: 617-565-2329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jparker at ucalgary.ca Thu Sep 3 16:49:18 2009 From: jparker at ucalgary.ca (Jim Parker) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:49:18 -0600 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA02BCE.90605@ucalgary.ca> A number of sources, including IGDA, give females as being 10-12% of the overall group. Be wary of lumping in with software engineers. Game development generally is not a software business. J Gregory Walek wrote: > Thanks lead on the 2000 report, Dan. > That lead me to The US Beaureau of Labor Statistics (which is apart of > the Dept of Labor) > > The email below is the information I got back from them. > I hope this helps someone else as it does me. > > - Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Gillham, Cynthia - BLS [mailto:Gillham.Cynthia at bls.gov] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:53 PM > *To:* Gregory Walek > *Subject:* % of females in gaming industry > > Hello, > > The correct NAICS code for the gaming industry is 334511, and our > industry classification system was last updated in 2007, not 2002 as I > mentioned incorrectly. > > I cant find data for the % of female workers in this industry, though, > because it's such a detailed industry classification. > > Instead, I found that within the computer software engineer occupation > there are 1,034 thousand employees and 20.9 percent are women. The > data is available from this link: > _http://www.bls.gov/opub/ee/empearn200901.pdf_, on page 212/320. In > comparison 46.7 percent of those employed are women across all industries. > > Gaming occupations are included in the computer software engineer > occupation, Standard Occupational Classification 15-1030. More > specifically, they are included in the Computer Software Engineers, > Applications occupation, but we do not have data at that level of detail. > > This broad occupation includes the following two detailed occupations: > *Computer Software Engineers, Applications* - Develop, create, and > modify general computer applications software or specialized utility > programs. Analyze needs and develop software. Design software or > customize software. > > *Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software* - Research, design, > develop, and test operating systems-level software. > > Please feel to contact me with any additional questions. > > Thanks, > > Cynthia Gillham > Bureau of Labor Statistics > Economic Analysis & Information > Boston, MA > Phone: 617-565-2329 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -- from Plasma611 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. I. Asimov ......................... Dr. J. R. Parker, Digital Media Laboratory Professor of Play http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker Faculty of Fine Arts (Drama) jparker@ ucalgary.ca University of Calgary 403-220-6784 AB606/AB611 From goldfile at gmail.com Thu Sep 3 17:28:35 2009 From: goldfile at gmail.com (Susan Gold) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:28:35 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <112F0FF7-B02F-48EF-B45B-4175DEBB2F95@gmail.com> Great stuff Greg, thanks for sharing this with us. Susan On Sep 3, 2009, at 4:13 PM, Gregory Walek wrote: > Thanks lead on the 2000 report, Dan. > That lead me to The US Beaureau of Labor Statistics (which is apart > of the Dept of Labor) > > The email below is the information I got back from them. > I hope this helps someone else as it does me. > > - Greg > > From: Gillham, Cynthia - BLS [mailto:Gillham.Cynthia at bls.gov] > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:53 PM > To: Gregory Walek > Subject: % of females in gaming industry > > Hello, > > The correct NAICS code for the gaming industry is 334511, and our > industry classification system was last updated in 2007, not 2002 as > I mentioned incorrectly. > > I cant find data for the % of female workers in this industry, > though, because it's such a detailed industry classification. > > Instead, I found that within the computer software engineer > occupation there are 1,034 thousand employees and 20.9 percent are > women. The data is available from this link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/ee/empearn200901.pdf > , on page 212/320. In comparison 46.7 percent of those employed are > women across all industries. > > Gaming occupations are included in the computer software engineer > occupation, Standard Occupational Classification 15-1030. More > specifically, they are included in the Computer Software Engineers, > Applications occupation, but we do not have data at that level of > detail. > > This broad occupation includes the following two detailed occupations: > Computer Software Engineers, Applications - Develop, create, and > modify general computer applications software or specialized utility > programs. Analyze needs and develop software. Design software or > customize software. > > Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software - Research, design, > develop, and test operating systems-level software. > > Please feel to contact me with any additional questions. > > Thanks, > > Cynthia Gillham > Bureau of Labor Statistics > Economic Analysis & Information > Boston, MA > Phone: 617-565-2329 > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -- Susan Gold In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! - J. G. Ballard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwalek at ccsnh.edu Thu Sep 3 17:35:08 2009 From: gwalek at ccsnh.edu (Gregory Walek) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:35:08 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data In-Reply-To: <4AA02BCE.90605@ucalgary.ca> References: <4AA02BCE.90605@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: That's correct. The 10-12% figure is accurate. The issue here the need for data from the Department of Labor. This was the case on my campus regarding scholarships for students in non-traditional majors (ie. Females in game development). As the email described, the Dept of Labor DOES NOT have data on the game industry, and the BLS explained why. Thus the next best data is from software enginering. The email from BLS also provides justification for use of that data. So what I'm providing here is at best only a bandaid and workaround. You should be using the IDGA figures over the BLS and US Dept of Labor ones. As for the BLS and US Dept of Labor, the real solution to this problem is to ensure they have real data. Gregory Walek Professor, Animation and Graphic Game Programming gWalek at ccsnh.edu New Hampshire Technical Institute 31 College Drive Concord, NH 03301-7412 Office: 603.271.7707 -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Jim Parker Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:49 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] Dept of Labor Data A number of sources, including IGDA, give females as being 10-12% of the overall group. Be wary of lumping in with software engineers. Game development generally is not a software business. J Gregory Walek wrote: > Thanks lead on the 2000 report, Dan. > That lead me to The US Beaureau of Labor Statistics (which is apart of > the Dept of Labor) > > The email below is the information I got back from them. > I hope this helps someone else as it does me. > > - Greg > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *From:* Gillham, Cynthia - BLS [mailto:Gillham.Cynthia at bls.gov] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:53 PM > *To:* Gregory Walek > *Subject:* % of females in gaming industry > > Hello, > > The correct NAICS code for the gaming industry is 334511, and our > industry classification system was last updated in 2007, not 2002 as I > mentioned incorrectly. > > I cant find data for the % of female workers in this industry, though, > because it's such a detailed industry classification. > > Instead, I found that within the computer software engineer occupation > there are 1,034 thousand employees and 20.9 percent are women. The > data is available from this link: > _http://www.bls.gov/opub/ee/empearn200901.pdf_, on page 212/320. In > comparison 46.7 percent of those employed are women across all industries. > > Gaming occupations are included in the computer software engineer > occupation, Standard Occupational Classification 15-1030. More > specifically, they are included in the Computer Software Engineers, > Applications occupation, but we do not have data at that level of detail. > > This broad occupation includes the following two detailed occupations: > *Computer Software Engineers, Applications* - Develop, create, and > modify general computer applications software or specialized utility > programs. Analyze needs and develop software. Design software or > customize software. > > *Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software* - Research, design, > develop, and test operating systems-level software. > > Please feel to contact me with any additional questions. > > Thanks, > > Cynthia Gillham > Bureau of Labor Statistics > Economic Analysis & Information > Boston, MA > Phone: 617-565-2329 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -- from Plasma611 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- "If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. I. Asimov ......................... Dr. J. R. Parker, Digital Media Laboratory Professor of Play http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker Faculty of Fine Arts (Drama) jparker@ ucalgary.ca University of Calgary 403-220-6784 AB606/AB611 _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au Sat Sep 5 18:46:55 2009 From: yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au (Yusuf Pisan) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:46:55 +1000 Subject: [game_edu] JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer for Games at The University of Technology, Sydney Message-ID: <6dfad8320909051546p1be08325le740916fee101ccc@mail.gmail.com> JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer* for Games at The University of Technology, Sydney http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct Closing Date: 9 October 2009 [ Below information has a lot of my personal comments and observations, please make sure you read the key selection criteria from the above web page carefully when putting together your application ] This is a permanent position at the School of Software in the University of Technology, Sydney** UTS is based close to Central train station in Sydney and Sydney is the world's best city***. The School of Software undertakes pioneering teaching and research essential for Australia?s futures ranging from developing prototype games for education, training and social issues, to examining and understanding virtual worlds and how they can be used. The School is seeking to appoint a Lecturer/Senior Lecturer. You will join an active, vibrant and friendly School with a track record in cutting-edge research and teaching at both undergraduate and postgraduate levels. The School has developed valuable research, built consulting and commercial links with leading organisations and industries in Australia and is connected to two major University Research Centres. The successful candidate will hold a PhD or equivalent in a relevant field as well as a strong background in computer games, interactive entertainment or 3D animation. The successful applicant/s will also be supervising higher degree research students as well as making a contribution to the teaching activities of the Faculty. Essential qualification: PhD in a related field. Since this position is in the Faculty of Engineering and IT (FEIT), people from technical fields would be preferred. Essential Knowledge: - Demonstrated knowledge in one or more of the school?s disciplines including computer games, interactive entertainment, animation and related industries. - Demonstrated knowledge of recent advances in one or more of the school?s disciplines - An appreciation of computing and software practice - Demonstrated depth of knowledge in innovation and in new modes of practice Relevant Research Groups: - Games Studio: http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ -- Yes, the web page needs updating, email me if you have questions - Human Centred Technology Design: http://www.research.uts.edu.au/strengths/hctd/overview.html - Interaction Design and Work Practice Laboratory: http://research.it.uts.edu.au/idwop/about.html - Creativity and Cognition Studios: http://research.it.uts.edu.au/creative Relevant Courses (Undergraduate and Postgraduate Degrees) - Bachelor of Science in Games Development: http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/it/ug/index.html -- Small number of students (intentionally!), but the subjects that make up the course would be most relevant for people who are applying for this position - Graphics & Animation Submajor: http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj02066.html -- This is one of the specializations for students studying Bachelor of Science in Information Technology - Master of Animation: http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c04212.html and http://www.dab.uts.edu.au/design/graduate-show/masters.html -- This is a cross-faculty course (Faculty of Design and Architecture and Built Environment, Faculty of Engineering and IT, and Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences) UTS has over 32,000 students and 2525 staff members (831 academic, 1163 support and 530 designated as research/support/academic staff). Additional facts can be found at http://www.uts.edu.au/about/vcw.html Some facts about Faculty of Engineering and IT (based on march 2008 figures) Total Faculty Budget: $40M Full time and fractional academic staff: 157.5 FTE (Full Time Equivalent) Part time casual academic staff: 40 FTE Support Staff: 107 FTE 2007 Undergraduate Students: 4146 2007 Postgraduate Students: 2258 Research Income: 6.6M The official job announcement is located at http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct Please contact Richard Raban Richard.Raban at uts.edu.au for official enquiries and me (yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au) for unofficial enquiries about this position. (*)How does Lecturer/Senior Lecturer translate to the titles in USA? In USA, the usual titles are Assistant Professor is used for people that are pre-tenure, Associate Professor for people who have tenure and Professor for people who have been around, and contributed, for a long time. In Australia (and UK and some other countries), the titles are slightly different. The titles are not related to tenure since there is no tenure. The number of full-professors is much smaller than USA and there is often a quota on how many full-professors there can be at the university or faculty level. People who join university post-Phd are usually appointed as a lecturer. There are 6 steps in lecturer and you usually go up a step each year although occasionally it is possible to skip steps. Once you reach step-5 or step-6, you are expected to apply for the next position. Senior lecturer similarly has 6 steps which is followed by associate professor position. From associate professor to professor is only 4 steps, but is expected to take a longer time and is dependent on university levels quotas and such. The salary scales for UTS is available at http://www.hru.uts.edu.au/manual/2ea/academic/schedule1.html Faculties will occasionally have "salary loading" schemes to attract and keep exceptionally qualified academics. In most cases, all academics who are at Lecturer B step-2 across the university will get the same salary. Faculty of Engineering and IT (the faculty where this job is located) currently does not have a salary loading scheme. Going back to how titles translate. Lecturer is usually equivalent to Assistant Professor. Early years of Senior Lecturer correspond better to Assistant Professor while later stages correspond better to Associate Professor in USA. (**)What does "permanent position" mean? In USA, after 7 years, you get tenure which confirms that the university wants to keep you forever and provides a high degree of job security. In Australia (and UK and some other countries), there is no tenure. Instead, you are hired into a permanent position. You are on probation for the first 2-3 years and in 99% of the cases, you become "permanent staff" at the end of that period. While it is not called tenure, being permanent staff does provide the similar high degree of job security. Once you are permanent staff, you remain permanent staff and do not have any further probationary periods as you get promoted from lecturer to senior lecturer to associate professor to professor. (***) Sydney is the world's best city. This is more than my personal opinion, see http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/07/12/australia.bestcity/index.html http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23306132-2702,00.html http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE55G0RM20090617 http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/best-city-sydney-loses-out-to-melbourne-20090609-c16x.html http://www.askdeb.com/personal-finance/world/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities Cheers, Yusuf -- A/Professor Yusuf Pisan Games Studio Faculty of Engineering and Information Technology University of Technology, Sydney http://staff.it.uts.edu.au/~ypisan/ http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ Skype: ypisan From baylorw at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 20:38:39 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 19:38:39 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer for Games at The University of Technology, Sydney In-Reply-To: <6dfad8320909051546p1be08325le740916fee101ccc@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dfad8320909051546p1be08325le740916fee101ccc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yusuf, i read your posting for a job in Sydney. While i still need to write a dissertation and won't be applying for jobs for a while, it was still interesting to read your notes on how faculty jobs in Australia differ from those here in the United States. Good information to know for the future should i consider applying overseas -baylor On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Yusuf Pisan wrote: > JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer* for Games at The University of Technology, > Sydney > > http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct > Closing Date: 9 October 2009 > > [ Below information has a lot of my personal comments and > observations, please make sure you read the key selection criteria > from the above web page carefully when putting together your > application ] > > This is a permanent position at the School of Software in the > University of Technology, Sydney** > > UTS is based close to Central train station in Sydney and Sydney is > the world's best city***. > > The School of Software undertakes pioneering teaching and research > essential for Australia?s futures ranging from developing prototype > games for education, training and social issues, to examining and > understanding virtual worlds and how they can be used. > > The School is seeking to appoint a Lecturer/Senior Lecturer. You will > join an active, vibrant and friendly School with a track record in > cutting-edge research and teaching at both undergraduate and > postgraduate levels. The School has developed valuable research, built > consulting and commercial links with leading organisations and > industries in Australia and is connected to two major University > Research Centres. > > The successful candidate will hold a PhD or equivalent in a relevant > field as well as a strong background in computer games, interactive > entertainment or 3D animation. The successful applicant/s will also be > supervising higher degree research students as well as making a > contribution to the teaching activities of the Faculty. > > Essential qualification: PhD in a related field. Since this position > is in the Faculty of Engineering and IT (FEIT), people from technical > fields would be preferred. > > Essential Knowledge: > > - Demonstrated knowledge in one or more of the school?s disciplines > including computer games, interactive entertainment, animation and > related industries. > - Demonstrated knowledge of recent advances in one or more of the > school?s disciplines > - An appreciation of computing and software practice > - Demonstrated depth of knowledge in innovation and in new modes of > practice > > Relevant Research Groups: > > - Games Studio: http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ -- Yes, the web page > needs > updating, email me if you have questions > - Human Centred Technology Design: > http://www.research.uts.edu.au/strengths/hctd/overview.html > - Interaction Design and Work Practice Laboratory: > http://research.it.uts.edu.au/idwop/about.html > - Creativity and Cognition Studios: > http://research.it.uts.edu.au/creative > > Relevant Courses (Undergraduate and Postgraduate Degrees) > > - Bachelor of Science in Games Development: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/it/ug/index.html -- Small number of > students (intentionally!), but the subjects that make up the course > would be most relevant for people who are applying for this position > - Graphics & Animation Submajor: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj02066.html -- This is one > of the specializations for students studying Bachelor of Science in > Information Technology > - Master of Animation: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c04212.html and > http://www.dab.uts.edu.au/design/graduate-show/masters.html -- This is > a cross-faculty course (Faculty of Design and Architecture and Built > Environment, Faculty of Engineering and IT, and Faculty of Arts and > Social Sciences) > > UTS has over 32,000 students and 2525 staff members (831 academic, > 1163 support and 530 designated as research/support/academic staff). > Additional facts can be found at http://www.uts.edu.au/about/vcw.html > > Some facts about Faculty of Engineering and IT (based on march 2008 > figures) > > Total Faculty Budget: $40M > Full time and fractional academic staff: 157.5 FTE (Full Time Equivalent) > Part time casual academic staff: 40 FTE > Support Staff: 107 FTE > > 2007 Undergraduate Students: 4146 > 2007 Postgraduate Students: 2258 > > Research Income: 6.6M > > The official job announcement is located at > http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct > Please contact Richard Raban Richard.Raban at uts.edu.au for official > enquiries and me (yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au) for unofficial enquiries > about this position. > > (*)How does Lecturer/Senior Lecturer translate to the titles in USA? > In USA, the usual titles are Assistant Professor is used for people > that are pre-tenure, Associate Professor for people who have tenure > and Professor for people who have been around, and contributed, for a > long time. In Australia (and UK and some other countries), the titles > are slightly different. The titles are not related to tenure since > there is no tenure. The number of full-professors is much smaller than > USA and there is often a quota on how many full-professors there can > be at the university or faculty level. People who join university > post-Phd are usually appointed as a lecturer. There are 6 steps in > lecturer and you usually go up a step each year although occasionally > it is possible to skip steps. Once you reach step-5 or step-6, you are > expected to apply for the next position. Senior lecturer similarly has > 6 steps which is followed by associate professor position. From > associate professor to professor is only 4 steps, but is expected to > take a longer time and is dependent on university levels quotas and > such. The salary scales for UTS is available at > http://www.hru.uts.edu.au/manual/2ea/academic/schedule1.html Faculties > will occasionally have "salary loading" schemes to attract and keep > exceptionally qualified academics. In most cases, all academics who > are at Lecturer B step-2 across the university will get the same > salary. Faculty of Engineering and IT (the faculty where this job is > located) currently does not have a salary loading scheme. Going back > to how titles translate. Lecturer is usually equivalent to Assistant > Professor. Early years of Senior Lecturer correspond better to > Assistant Professor while later stages correspond better to Associate > Professor in USA. > > > (**)What does "permanent position" mean? In USA, after 7 years, you > get tenure which confirms that the university wants to keep you > forever and provides a high degree of job security. In Australia (and > UK and some other countries), there is no tenure. Instead, you are > hired into a permanent position. You are on probation for the first > 2-3 years and in 99% of the cases, you become "permanent staff" at the > end of that period. While it is not called tenure, being permanent > staff does provide the similar high degree of job security. Once you > are permanent staff, you remain permanent staff and do not have any > further probationary periods as you get promoted from lecturer to > senior lecturer to associate professor to professor. > > (***) Sydney is the world's best city. This is more than my personal > opinion, see > http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/07/12/australia.bestcity/index.html > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23306132-2702,00.html > http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE55G0RM20090617 > > http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/best-city-sydney-loses-out-to-melbourne-20090609-c16x.html > http://www.askdeb.com/personal-finance/world/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities > > > Cheers, > > Yusuf > > -- > A/Professor Yusuf Pisan > Games Studio > Faculty of Engineering and Information Technology > University of Technology, Sydney > http://staff.it.uts.edu.au/~ypisan/ > http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ > Skype: ypisan > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rflemin1 at jccc.edu Mon Sep 7 17:39:24 2009 From: rflemin1 at jccc.edu (Richard Fleming) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:39:24 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] Textures for Educational Use Message-ID: <164D13CCC49A3448BD9052A9CEC422F73A430D7BD6@ac-ex07mb2.employee.directory.jccc> We just ran into a bit of snag. The 3D animation instructor and I got together, pooled some of our budget money, and tried to purchase a texture package to use with our classes. Problem is when the school took a closer look at the license, it was for a single *user*, not server or even machine. Needless to say we can't afford to buy each student a $1100 dollar texture package. The company in question isn't at all interested in giving us any kind of educational pricing either. So my question to the list is thus: Where can we go for some professional grade textures that come with a server type license? We want to be able to share these textures out to about 25 machines internally on campus. Dragons are awesome and dragons are fun. But if you get one angry... then you'll be well done. --------------------------------------- Richard Fleming RC 332G, x4838 Interested in creating computer games? Then check out JCCC's Game Development AA Degree! http://www.jccc.edu/home/depts.php/1287 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From carl at measurand.com Mon Sep 7 14:56:10 2009 From: carl at measurand.com (carl callewaert) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:56:10 -0300 Subject: [game_edu] Textures for Educational Use In-Reply-To: <164D13CCC49A3448BD9052A9CEC422F73A430D7BD6@ac-ex07mb2.employee.directory.jccc> References: <164D13CCC49A3448BD9052A9CEC422F73A430D7BD6@ac-ex07mb2.employee.directory.jccc> Message-ID: <24E12E3E-27A7-4922-A7D7-55BA5FA1058D@measurand.com> this a problem we have too. I am very much interested to find a solution for this. carl callewaert On 7-Sep-09, at 6:39 PM, Richard Fleming wrote: > We just ran into a bit of snag. The 3D animation instructor and I > got together, pooled some of our budget money, and tried to purchase > a texture package to use with our classes. Problem is when the > school took a closer look at the license, it was for a single > *user*, not server or even machine. Needless to say we can't afford > to buy each student a $1100 dollar texture package. The company in > question isn't at all interested in giving us any kind of > educational pricing either. > > So my question to the list is thus: Where can we go for some > professional grade textures that come with a server type license? > We want to be able to share these textures out to about 25 machines > internally on campus. > > > > Dragons are awesome and dragons are fun. > But if you get one angry... > then you'll be well done. > --------------------------------------- > Richard Fleming > RC 332G, x4838 > Interested in creating computer games? > Then check out JCCC's Game Development AA Degree! > http://www.jccc.edu/home/depts.php/1287 > > The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto > ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") > and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the > individual or entity named above. The information may be protected > by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal > rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, > you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or > copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply > and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any > attachments thereto. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From Nic.Colley at cpcc.edu Mon Sep 7 20:58:17 2009 From: Nic.Colley at cpcc.edu (Nic Colley) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:58:17 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Textures for Educational Use In-Reply-To: <24E12E3E-27A7-4922-A7D7-55BA5FA1058D@measurand.com> References: <164D13CCC49A3448BD9052A9CEC422F73A430D7BD6@ac-ex07mb2.employee.directory.jccc> <24E12E3E-27A7-4922-A7D7-55BA5FA1058D@measurand.com> Message-ID: I know that having great textures for models is great but my suggestion is for the non 1100 dollar purchase. Cgtextures.com and google tend to be what my students and I use. -Nic Mobile Edition On Sep 7, 2009, at 6:02 PM, "carl callewaert" wrote: > this a problem we have too. I am very much interested to find a > solution for this. > > carl callewaert > > > On 7-Sep-09, at 6:39 PM, Richard Fleming wrote: > >> We just ran into a bit of snag. The 3D animation instructor and I >> got together, pooled some of our budget money, and tried to >> purchase a texture package to use with our classes. Problem is >> when the school took a closer look at the license, it was for a >> single *user*, not server or even machine. Needless to say we >> can't afford to buy each student a $1100 dollar texture package. >> The company in question isn't at all interested in giving us any >> kind of educational pricing either. >> >> So my question to the list is thus: Where can we go for some >> professional grade textures that come with a server type license? >> We want to be able to share these textures out to about 25 machines >> internally on campus. >> >> >> >> Dragons are awesome and dragons are fun. >> But if you get one angry... >> then you'll be well done. >> --------------------------------------- >> Richard Fleming >> RC 332G, x4838 >> Interested in creating computer games? >> Then check out JCCC's Game Development AA Degree! >> http://www.jccc.edu/home/depts.php/1287 >> >> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments >> thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College >> ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only >> the individual or entity named above. The information may be >> protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or >> other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the >> intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, >> distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If >> you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify >> JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e- >> mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From plandweh at cs.cmu.edu Tue Sep 8 16:45:18 2009 From: plandweh at cs.cmu.edu (Pete[r] Landwehr) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:45:18 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Call for Research Projects In-Reply-To: <618A5497-8020-4243-8957-DA03836742BE@gmail.com> References: <618A5497-8020-4243-8957-DA03836742BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, This sounds like an excellent offer, and I am currently planning a proposal. However, before writing, I was wondering if you had more specific details on the different kinds of data that will be available. Will it be equivalent to that available in the Game Entry Browser and specific game homepages for this year's competition, or will there be more? Correspondingly, should we expect to scrape the data from the Game Jam Site, or will it be available in some kind of formatted archive? Best, pml On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Susan Gold wrote: > The IGDA's Global Game Jam 2010 opens the Call for Research Projects > > (http://globalgamejam.org) > > Call for Research Projects > > In the framework of the Global Game Jam 2010, we are inviting all interested > applicants to submit a research project. > > Last year?s Global Game Jam gathered professionals, students and hobbyists > from over 54 locations worldwide with the goal of developing games over a > weekend. The result was 1650 people making 370 games. This year?s GGJ > promises to include an even larger number of sites around the globe. The > organizers believe this presents a unique opportunity for researchers > interested in questions such as, but not limited to: > > Global trends in game development, as exemplified by GGJ games > Cross-cultural communication in game jam game development > Team creation and management in game jam game development > Project management in game jam game development > Iterative design and rapid prototyping in the context of a game jam event. > Time-constrained innovation and experimentation: game jams as development > event. > Global business perspectives of the Global Game Jam. > > We hereby invite scholars in any field who wish to address research > questions through the Global Game Jam event to submit a research project > application. > > There is no specific topic, methodology or approach that is favored, so long > as the question can be well addressed through observation of or > post-analysis of the GGJ event and outcomes. Some questions that will guide > the reviewing process include: > > Is the proposal for a project that will add to the total body of knowledge, > increase understanding, or improve game design, collaboration, or other > academic disciplines? > Why is the project needed? > What long-term intellectual and/or economic benefits can be derived from it? > How does the project relate to research that has already been done in the > area? > What will it accomplish? > Will the results interest a meaningful audience or serve a particular group > of users? > Have project goals been well conceptualized and well presented? > Is the outcome of the study clear? > Are project objectives realistic and clearly defined? Will the methodology > achieve the desired outcomes? Does the design permit the evaluation of > achievement of project goals? > Is the methodology practical and logical? Have the correct questions been > asked? > Has the applicant proved familiarity with the field; has the appropriate > background research been done? > Have all the procedures been fully described? > Are the concepts original and innovative? > How will the results be disseminated to reach appropriate audiences? > > We encourage research projects that can have potential industry outcomes or > applications, and we welcome projects that add to understanding of and > further development of the cultural and social importance of the Global Game > Jam. > > Accepted projects will be integrated into the development and arrangement of > the Global Game Jam 2010. Selected research projects will be featured as a > part of the Global Game Jam (GGJ) 2010 event. Accepted projects will also > have the opportunity of using the global network of sites from the early > stages of the Global Game Jam organization. The Global Game Jam will also > provide letters of support to aid researchers in seeking funding to support > the research, and will assist in the distribution and collection of informed > consent forms. (Note that acceptance does not include research funding: > researchers are required to fund their projects). > > Application Requirements > > Submissions should consist of: > > A 3000 word maximum project description, including: > > a.???? Goals and objectives, > b.???? Review of the relevant literature, > c.???? Expected outcomes, > d.???? Relevance for the game industry, > e.???? A comprehensive timeline. > > A short CV for each of the applicants > Brief history of current and past support > > > > Application Deadline > > Applications must be submitted no later than October 1st, at 12:00 CET. > Email applications to cfp at globalgamejam.org > > Announcement of Results > > After review by the Global Game Jam research committee, applicants will get > an answer by October 20th, 2009. > > The IGDA Global Game Jam Research Proposal Committee > > Dr. Marinka Copier ? New Media and Digital Culture at Utrecht University & > School of Art and Technology at Utrecht School of the Arts (HKU); Utrecht, > the Netherlands > Dr. Katherine Isbister ? Digital Media and Computer Science & Engineering at > Polytechnic Institute of New York University; Brooklyn, USA > Dr. Magy Seif El Nasr ? School of Interactive Arts & Technology at Simon > Fraser University; Vancouver, Canada > > The Global Game Jam is an IGDA event being held January 29-31, 2010 at > various locations around the world. > > Susan Gold > > -- > Prof. Susan Gold > IGDA Education SIG chairperson > In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! > - J. G. Ballard > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > From sannie at akpeters.com Fri Sep 11 17:14:59 2009 From: sannie at akpeters.com (Susannah Sieper) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:14:59 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Call for Papers: Computer Game Education Review Message-ID: Call for Papers: Computer Game Education Review http://www.akpeters.com/previews/cger.pdf CGER is a peer-reviewed academic publication addressing issues that concern the teaching of game design and development including, but not limited to, curriculum organization, teaching techniques (e.g., conceptual vs. exemplary), methodology, assessment, tools for facilitating game design education, game typology, societal impact, economic and commercial issues, legal aspects, and student evaluation that are of interest to faculty and institutions involved in the education and training of future game developers. CGER will publish original research, summarize the research of the past year in survey articles, provide analyses from noted experts, and include complete bibliographies drawn from the key journals and conference proceedings of the field. The goal is to create a tool that will facilitate computer game education research and provide a research compass to the community at large. EDITOR-IN-CHIEF Stephen Jacobs EDITORIAL BOARD Bryan Alexander, Jessica Bayliss, Marinka Copier, Drew Davidson, Ann DeMarle, Christopher Egert, St?phane Natkin, Ian Parberry, James Parker, Ruben R. Puentedura, Karen Schrier, Magy Seif El-Nasr SUBMISSIONS - Deadline December 1, 2009 Submissions for the first issue will close on December 1st, 2009. Authors will be notified of their submission status by January 1, 2010 with revisions (if any) due by February 1, 2010. While our initial plan for CGER is as an annual publication, we are considering a more frequent publication schedule depending on the level and quality of submissions. Submit your paper electronically at http://journaltool.akpeters.com QUESTIONS? cger at akpeters.com ______________________________ Susannah (Sannie) Sieper Marketing Director | A K Peters, Ltd. tel +1.303.817.1996 | sannie at akpeters.com | LinkedIn www.akpeters.com | Publishers of Science & Technology A K PETERS is now on Facebook | Twitter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goldfile at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 16:35:43 2009 From: goldfile at gmail.com (Susan Gold) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:35:43 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] IGDA Leadership Forum - November 12-13, 2009 - San Francisco, CA USA Message-ID: <7A6BB130-1DA1-4C8E-987D-E5D3FE944E9E@gmail.com> I was able to attend last year's IGDA Leadership Forum and found it to be one of the best conferences I had participated in to date. I had an opportunity to actually work and meet with industry veterans and walked away with more information than I could possibly find out about production from a book. I highly recommend attending, I am bringing a small contingent from my school and I'll be going again myself. This year's line-up of speakers really looks excellent. The official blurb: IGDA Leadership Forum 2009 Join top leaders in the game development industry as they outline their personal framework for successfully advancing game production. The IGDA Leadership Forum program features an exiting lineup of highly respected speakers, like Noah Falstein, John Northan, Michael John, Michael Saladino, David Steele, Clinton Keith, Kane Minkus, Don Daglow, David Edery, and Heather Chandler?among other prominent insiders and is focused on advancing the state-of-the-art in game production and management. Discounted rates are available for groups of three or more. For more information and a special discount code contact Joe Sapp: joda at igda.org Susan -- Susan Gold In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! - J. G. Ballard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From autodot at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 18:02:27 2009 From: autodot at gmail.com (Rob Holt) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:02:27 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Textures for Educational Use Message-ID: http://mayang.com/textures/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goldfile at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 23:32:26 2009 From: goldfile at gmail.com (Susan Gold) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:32:26 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Global Game Jam 2010 Message-ID: <557E9CB6-FDF8-4053-BB96-5A395B24AEA9@gmail.com> As many of you know, the Global Game Jam will be happening again, January 29-31, 2010. We are actively looking for new locations to host this year, we expect to triple in size, we already have 70 locations signed-up. This is an incredible experience for students to expand their skill set, meet new people and give them an opportunity to create a game. Last year, lives were changed, jobs found, ideas sold, collaborations and opportunities abound. GGJ brings together talented individuals and teams from around the globe and rallies them around a central theme, for which they have 48 hours to create their game. To sign up your studio/lab/school please look over the following specs for what is needed and email us at: future at globalgamejam.org Physical space to comfortably seat participants Internet access (either wired or wireless) for all participants Access to common game development tools and/or ability to download and install software Local IT support in case of problems with computers or internet connectivity At least one local official organizer to coordinate the event ** Access to all space and computing resources around the clock over the weekend of January 29-31, 2010* Coffee and Beverages & easy access to food An auditorium space to do a post Jam presentation on Sunday, January 31st Security (safeguard against theft, etc?) *We prefer your location was open for the entire 48 hours but we can accommodate those that can not, it is just less time for your site participants to make their games. ** The organizer must be a part of all email correspondence, participate on basecamp and oblige us with meeting all due dates. The GGJ will provide you with tools to organize your local event, hands on guidance before & during the Global Game Jam, a web page on the GGJ site, local & international promotion of the event, swag, etc? Please contact me with any questions. We have an organizers area set up for you to meet and work with others who are hosting. We will assist you in creating the best experience at your location. Susan -- Susan Gold In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! - J. G. Ballard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au Thu Sep 17 00:42:52 2009 From: yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au (Yusuf Pisan) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:42:52 +1000 Subject: [game_edu] JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer for Games at The University of Technology, Sydney In-Reply-To: <6dfad8320909051546p1be08325le740916fee101ccc@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dfad8320909051546p1be08325le740916fee101ccc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dfad8320909162142h3bd857a5qf56a423706e2c7c@mail.gmail.com> The below job was initially advertised as being restricted to only "Australian/NZ Residents". This mistake has now been rectified. The position is open to all world citizens! Cheers, Yusuf -- A/Professor Yusuf Pisan Games Studio Faculty of Engineering and Information Technology University of Technology, Sydney http://staff.it.uts.edu.au/~ypisan/ http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ Skype: ypisan On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Yusuf Pisan wrote: > JOB: Lecturer/Senior Lecturer* for Games at The University of Technology, Sydney > > http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct > Closing Date: 9 October 2009 > > [ Below information has a lot of my personal comments and > observations, please make sure you read the key selection criteria > from the above web page carefully when ?putting together your > application ] > > This is a permanent position at the School of Software in the > University of Technology, Sydney** > > UTS is based close to Central train station in Sydney and Sydney is > the world's best city***. > > The School of Software undertakes pioneering teaching and research > essential for Australia?s futures ranging from developing prototype > games for education, training and social issues, to examining and > understanding virtual worlds and how they can be used. > > The School is seeking to appoint a Lecturer/Senior Lecturer. You will > join an active, vibrant and friendly School with a track record in > cutting-edge research and teaching at both undergraduate and > postgraduate levels. The School has developed valuable research, built > consulting and commercial links with leading organisations and > industries in Australia and is connected to two major University > Research Centres. > > The successful candidate will hold a PhD or equivalent in a relevant > field as well as a strong background in computer games, interactive > entertainment or 3D animation. The successful applicant/s will also be > supervising higher degree research students as well as making a > contribution to the teaching activities of the Faculty. > > Essential qualification: PhD in a related field. Since this position > is in the Faculty of Engineering and IT (FEIT), people from technical > fields would be preferred. > > Essential Knowledge: > > - ? ? ? Demonstrated knowledge in one or more of the school?s disciplines > including computer games, interactive entertainment, animation and > related industries. > - ? ? ? Demonstrated knowledge of recent advances in one or more of the > school?s disciplines > - ? ? ? An appreciation of computing and software practice > - ? ? ? Demonstrated depth of knowledge in innovation and in new modes of practice > > Relevant Research Groups: > > - ? ? ? Games Studio: http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ -- Yes, the web page needs > updating, email me if you have questions > - ? ? ? Human Centred Technology Design: > http://www.research.uts.edu.au/strengths/hctd/overview.html > - ? ? ? Interaction Design and Work Practice Laboratory: > http://research.it.uts.edu.au/idwop/about.html > - ? ? ? Creativity and Cognition Studios: http://research.it.uts.edu.au/creative > > Relevant Courses (Undergraduate and Postgraduate Degrees) > > - ? ? ? Bachelor of Science in Games Development: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/it/ug/index.html -- Small number of > students (intentionally!), but the subjects that make up the course > would be most relevant for people who are applying for this position > - ? ? ? Graphics & Animation Submajor: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/directory/smj02066.html -- This is one > of the specializations for students studying Bachelor of Science in > Information Technology > - ? ? ? Master of Animation: > http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c04212.html and > http://www.dab.uts.edu.au/design/graduate-show/masters.html -- This is > a cross-faculty course (Faculty of Design and Architecture and Built > Environment, Faculty of Engineering and IT, and Faculty of Arts and > Social Sciences) > > UTS has over 32,000 students and 2525 staff members (831 academic, > 1163 support and 530 designated as research/support/academic staff). > Additional facts can be found at http://www.uts.edu.au/about/vcw.html > > Some facts about Faculty of Engineering and IT (based on march 2008 figures) > > Total Faculty Budget: $40M > Full time and fractional academic staff: 157.5 FTE (Full Time Equivalent) > Part time casual academic staff: 40 FTE > Support Staff: 107 FTE > > 2007 Undergraduate Students: 4146 > 2007 Postgraduate Students: 2258 > > Research Income: 6.6M > > The official job announcement is located at > http://www.jobs.uts.edu.au/job/job_details.cfm?id=398945&from=direct > Please contact Richard Raban Richard.Raban at uts.edu.au for official > enquiries and me (yusuf.pisan at uts.edu.au) for unofficial enquiries > about this position. > > (*)How does Lecturer/Senior Lecturer translate to the titles in USA? > In USA, the usual titles are Assistant Professor is used for people > that are pre-tenure, Associate Professor for people who have tenure > and Professor for people who have been around, and contributed, for a > long time. In Australia (and UK and some other countries), the titles > are slightly different. The titles are not related to tenure since > there is no tenure. The number of full-professors is much smaller than > USA and there is often a quota on how many full-professors there can > be at the university or faculty level. People who join university > post-Phd are usually appointed as a lecturer. There are 6 steps in > lecturer and you usually go up a step each year although occasionally > it is possible to skip steps. Once you reach step-5 or step-6, you are > expected to apply for the next position. Senior lecturer similarly has > 6 steps which is followed by associate professor position. From > associate professor to professor is only 4 steps, but is expected to > take a longer time and is dependent on university levels quotas and > such. The salary scales for UTS is available at > http://www.hru.uts.edu.au/manual/2ea/academic/schedule1.html Faculties > will occasionally have "salary loading" schemes to attract and keep > exceptionally qualified academics. In most cases, all academics who > are at Lecturer B step-2 across the university will get the same > salary. Faculty of Engineering and IT (the faculty where this job is > located) currently does not have a salary loading scheme. Going back > to how titles translate. Lecturer is usually equivalent to Assistant > Professor. Early years of Senior Lecturer correspond better to > Assistant Professor while later stages correspond better to Associate > Professor in USA. > > > (**)What does "permanent position" mean? In USA, after 7 years, you > get tenure which confirms that the university wants to keep you > forever and provides a high degree of job security. In Australia (and > UK and some other countries), there is no tenure. Instead, you are > hired into a permanent position. You are on probation for the first > 2-3 years and in 99% of the cases, you become "permanent staff" at the > end of that period. While it is not called tenure, being permanent > staff does provide the similar ?high degree of job security. Once you > are permanent staff, you remain permanent staff and do not have any > further probationary periods as you get promoted from lecturer to > senior lecturer to associate professor to professor. > > (***) Sydney is the world's best city. This is more than my personal > opinion, see http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/07/12/australia.bestcity/index.html > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23306132-2702,00.html > http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE55G0RM20090617 > http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/best-city-sydney-loses-out-to-melbourne-20090609-c16x.html > http://www.askdeb.com/personal-finance/world/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Most_Livable_Cities > > > Cheers, > > Yusuf > > -- > A/Professor Yusuf Pisan > Games Studio > Faculty of Engineering and Information Technology > University of Technology, Sydney > http://staff.it.uts.edu.au/~ypisan/ > http://games.it.uts.edu.au/ > Skype: ypisan > From malcolmr at cse.unsw.edu.au Sun Sep 20 22:05:00 2009 From: malcolmr at cse.unsw.edu.au (Malcolm Ryan) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:05:00 +1000 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright Message-ID: As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. Does anyone know more about this? Malcolm From andrewjb at WPI.EDU Sun Sep 20 22:18:36 2009 From: andrewjb at WPI.EDU (Andrew Brockert) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:18:36 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB6E27C.3050508@wpi.edu> I don't know about .au, but in .us, that might fall under fair use. You may also want to contact the publisher (usually the copyright holder on the finished game) for confirmation. If they're defunct or otherwise don't respond, I'd consider it fair game for fair use. Disclaimer: IANAL (yet). Malcolm Ryan wrote: > As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games > for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has > standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of > readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't > seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. > > Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? > > I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available > cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude > AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library > of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. > Does anyone know more about this? > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From ai864 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 21 00:10:42 2009 From: ai864 at yahoo.com (Ian Schreiber) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26242.54063.qm@web39703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This would definitely be something you'd want to ask your school's legal department. I would imagine that if you set it up similar to library books (with games being available for checkout) that the same rules would apply. In my experience it has been getting the funding to set up a game lab that's been the hard part, not the legal issues :-) ________________________________ From: Malcolm Ryan To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:05:00 PM Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library of games but I am worried about the copyright? and licensing issues. Does anyone know more about this? Malcolm _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nic.Colley at cpcc.edu Mon Sep 21 00:05:54 2009 From: Nic.Colley at cpcc.edu (Nic Colley) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:05:54 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <4AB6E27C.3050508@wpi.edu> References: <4AB6E27C.3050508@wpi.edu> Message-ID: The only option I am aware of close to this would be gametap. They have a lot of old games and current. -Nic Mobile Edition On Sep 20, 2009, at 10:39 PM, "Andrew Brockert" wrote: > I don't know about .au, but in .us, that might fall under fair use. > You may also want to contact the publisher (usually the copyright > holder on the finished game) for confirmation. If they're defunct > or otherwise don't respond, I'd consider it fair game for fair use. > Disclaimer: IANAL (yet). > > Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of >> games for my students to play. In other disciplines the University >> has standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets >> of readings available to students at little or no cost, but there >> doesn't seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >> >> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >> >> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is >> available cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced >> to exclude AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set >> up a library of games but I am worried about the copyright and >> licensing issues. Does anyone know more about this? >> >> Malcolm >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From swatjester at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 00:44:38 2009 From: swatjester at gmail.com (Dan Rosenthal) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:44:38 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <569C8604-E53E-4408-A5AF-20FE9E4C84C2@gmail.com> You could of course directly seek licenses from the various manufacturers (or for abandonware titles just go ahead and use them), but that of course costs money. From a fair use standpoint it's a very tough sell -- part of the reason that universities can make reading lists available to students cheaply or freely, is that in many cases the amount and substantiality of the book being used (one of the four factors of a fair use determination) is extremely low. By definition, you can't do that in a game, you're always making the whole thing available. In addition, many of those books are written without the intention of making a profit, generally not the case with games. One potential option is to consider getting a internet cafe license for things that are available on Steam. Another option is to purchase a small number of licenses/copies of games that all teach the same thing, and then rotate. For instance, group A will play Game A, while group B plays game B, then they switch. Of course, the end cost is the same (i.e. still getting 30 copies of SOMETHING), but the number of games you can cover with that same amount of money is much greater. My best advice though, is to simply ask. PR companies regularly give out press review copies, it wouldn't be out of line to request they give an educational copy with a multi-seat license, just so they can say "Our game is being taught at University of X". -Dan Rosenthal On Sep 20, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Malcolm Ryan wrote: > As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of > games for my students to play. In other disciplines the University > has standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of > readings available to students at little or no cost, but there > doesn't seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. > > Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? > > I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available > cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude > AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a > library of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing > issues. Does anyone know more about this? > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From uevans at email.unc.edu Sun Sep 20 23:21:58 2009 From: uevans at email.unc.edu (Elizabeth A. Evans) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <4AB6E27C.3050508@wpi.edu> References: <4AB6E27C.3050508@wpi.edu> Message-ID: > Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games for >> my students to play. In other disciplines the University has standard >> copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of readings available >> to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't seem to be any >> appropriate arrangement for software. In many U.S. colleges and universities, the library can help navigate fair use guidelines. I'd ask them. If they can't help, they may be able to steer you to someone who can help. -- Libby =================== Elizabeth A. Evans Information Technology Services University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Home Page: http://www.unc.edu/~uevans/homepage.html UNC-CH Home Page: http://www.unc.edu Facebook and LinkedIn Profiles: Elizabeth Evans Interested in the use of games in the curriculum at UNC-Chapel Hill? Subscribe to the Games4Learning list: http://mail.unc.edu/lists/read/subscribe?name=games4learning Follow Games4Learning on Twitter: Games4Learning From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Sep 21 05:48:58 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:48:58 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> The educators I talked to at DiGRA all just have game libraries they loan games out of, and/or have consoles and PC's to play them on in labs. I presume either it's legal, or the restrictions that people might think of (EULA, etc.) are unenforceable or too overarching to apply to lending. As far as I recall, interestingly places like Blockbuster (and other game lending services) don't pay anything special for their copies in the UK, but that might have changed at some point. Just as with books, if they are not in this library (or are loaned out, or whatever), then the students need to buy them I'd guess (or might want to buy them anyway). Problem is backcatalogues of games are hard to find (especially platform specific ones not re-released on an emulator), so something worth doing is investigating where the games can be brought from (if anyone can tell me where to find Planescape Torment, DRM-unencumbered, that's something I'm looking for ;) the second hand version all go for high amounts on Amazon it seems). Andrew Malcolm Ryan wrote: > As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games > for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has > standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of > readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't > seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. > > Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? > > I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available > cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude > AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library > of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. > Does anyone know more about this? > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com Mon Sep 21 06:17:53 2009 From: DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com (Dan Carreker) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 03:17:53 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <013101ca3aa4$c88ef4e0$6701a8c0@dcl> I whole-heartedly agree with Andrew's solutions. Ultimately though, if your unable to create a lending library with ALL the titles you want, here's a couple of alternatives that you might want to consider: Here in the US there is a service called Gamefly, from which you can rent games through the mail; don't know about availability outside the US but might be worth a look to see if its a resource your students can use. Also, while playing through a game has much merit, there are certain things you can demonstrate fairly well with a recorded playthrough (examples of art assets, design concepts, storytelling,etc.) Youtube is an excellent resource for this, and there are often versions of playthroughs with just the cutscenes or with just the gameplay, which can be helpful when focusing on just one element at a time. Alternatively, you can record your own section of gameplay in order to get exactly what you want...or have a student do it for you. Also, don't forget about demos. Some games don't need to be played in their entirety in order to understand what made them good or bad. And playable demos, assuming you can find them, are free. Used games can also be purchased fairly cheaply, once their platforms a genration old. If you do geta lending library set up, you might wanr to keep in mind how long it takes to play through some of these games; that can be a lot of homework, particularly if the student is new to the genre. I'd suggest having some saved games on file so that students can move to the relevent sections quickly when appropriate. Just some thoughts, Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Armstrong" To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright > The educators I talked to at DiGRA all just have game libraries they loan > games out of, and/or have consoles and PC's to play them on in labs. I > presume either it's legal, or the restrictions that people might think of > (EULA, etc.) are unenforceable or too overarching to apply to lending. As > far as I recall, interestingly places like Blockbuster (and other game > lending services) don't pay anything special for their copies in the UK, > but that might have changed at some point. > > Just as with books, if they are not in this library (or are loaned out, or > whatever), then the students need to buy them I'd guess (or might want to > buy them anyway). Problem is backcatalogues of games are hard to find > (especially platform specific ones not re-released on an emulator), so > something worth doing is investigating where the games can be brought from > (if anyone can tell me where to find Planescape Torment, DRM-unencumbered, > that's something I'm looking for ;) the second hand version all go for > high amounts on Amazon it seems). > > Andrew > > Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games for >> my students to play. In other disciplines the University has standard >> copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of readings >> available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't seem to be >> any appropriate arrangement for software. >> >> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >> >> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude AAA >> titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library of >> games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. Does >> anyone know more about this? >> >> Malcolm >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > From jzagal at cdm.depaul.edu Mon Sep 21 10:45:29 2009 From: jzagal at cdm.depaul.edu (Jose P. Zagal) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:45:29 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> We've had a reasonably degree of success using a combination of managed game labs (both a PC as well as a console lab), loans from personal/instructor collections, and required purchases/free games. The managed labs work best for AAA titles or recent releases, personal/instructor collections for the harder to find games. Ultimately what you choose to do probably depends more on the nature of the assignments/work you want students to do than anything else. Jose > As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games > for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has > standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of > readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't > seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. > > Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? > > I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available > cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude > AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library > of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. > Does anyone know more about this? > > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -- Jos? P. Zagal Assistant Professor College of Computing and Digital Media DePaul University http://facsrv.cs.depaul.edu/~jzagal From ai864 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 21 11:25:46 2009 From: ai864 at yahoo.com (Ian Schreiber) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> References: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just realized another option is to require the students to buy a game from a list themselves. It may seem odd, but right now I am taking a history of cinema course and in addition to a textbook we also have to procure copies of five specific classic movies; it is left to us to decide whether to purchase from Amazon, rent from Netflix or Blockbuster, try our luck with the local public library system, or what have you (and of course there's an implicit requirement that we have access to a DVD player). So, I don't think it is really that unreasonable. It may seem nonstandard, but then a course where playing video games for homework is already nonstandard :-). If it is too expensive for each student to buy all of the games you want, you could encourage students get together in groups, with each person buying one game from the list and then swapping among group members (or even meeting out of class for a group play session). ? This does raise a related question, of what to do with classic games that may be difficult to procure through legal means (I'm thinking of older arcade games that you might find on MAME but not elsewhere). You can get a lot of coverage through Gametap, and a lot of the classic console games are now being made available on current-gen systems, so one solution is just to look at what is available and select from that. But suppose you have one game in particular that you feel is really important for your students to play, and it's not available except on emulator. Fair use probably does not cover that; what do you do then? ? - Ian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Sep 21 11:32:13 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:32:13 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB79C7D.5090902@aarmstrong.org> Worry that our entire digital cultural heritage will be lost (apart from re-released material) for no good reason well before we're dead and we'll be poorer for it since no one will get to play some really great games. Oh well! Sorry, very cynical and pessimistic of me - being from the Game Preservation SIG, this is an intrinsic question that simply isn't answerable, or even worse, never asked. Answers if you have them on a postcard please! :) I don't think honestly that by the letter of the law many places have enough copies of classic games they want to teach parts from (certainly not the emulator part - DMCA removes the right in America at least to make copies of something!) so I presume they either get special permission (I've seen cases of this), don't use game X, hint and look the other way, or just use the emulators anyway given the teachings of educational use in copyright law (varies from country to country, and don't quote me). Andrew Ian Schreiber wrote: > > ...what do you do then? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baylorw at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 11:31:36 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:31:36 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's worth remembering that a lot of classic games aren't playable today either because they require a console most people won't have access too or because they're PC games that don't run on Vista. Even with DosBox, many classics such as FallOut and Ultima IV are unplayable. This is an area where studying classic movies is probably easier than classic games -baylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Sep 21 12:01:08 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:01:08 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu> <528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB7A344.60000@aarmstrong.org> The KEEP project is working on this - ie; making a portable emulator platform (for emulators and things to run on) in Java and other bits. http://www.keep-project.eu/ezpub2/index.php This won't be operational for a while, but the platform won't be necessarily the problem (with copyrightof the system BIOS's, that is being looked at too, which is awesome), the software copyrights will be however - I mean, there is a physical limitation on how many copies of a item is available, and for old games, such as my aforementioned Planescape Torment, haven't been re-released - and some games have muddled owners too, all meaning a big mess :( I do agree though that the hardware is disappearing fast, luckily emulation is getting there - I mean, KEEP is a multi-million euro project, and looks good to expand in the future. Hopefully that'd put it in the realm of studying games like films - given the need to obtain a copy of the thing to run it in the first place (DRM is another "don't ask, don't answer" question that certainly education and loaning have major issues with). Andrew baylor wetzel wrote: > It's worth remembering that a lot of classic games aren't playable > today either because they require a console most people won't have > access too or because they're PC games that don't run on Vista. Even > with DosBox, many classics such as FallOut and Ultima IV are > unplayable. This is an area where studying classic movies is probably > easier than classic games > > -baylor > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com Mon Sep 21 19:11:33 2009 From: DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com (Dan Carreker) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:11:33 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright References: <4AB79189.8030804@cdm.depaul.edu><528468.39684.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01f501ca3b10$dccae380$6701a8c0@dcl> Years ago I worked for a major game publisher that had there entire Windows library (DOS to ME) all on one PC, fully playable for their CS department. I do believe it was duel boot, but it did allow access to every PC game they ever made. I also remember setting it up was extremely tricky, but it is doable in a lab environment. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright It's worth remembering that a lot of classic games aren't playable today either because they require a console most people won't have access too or because they're PC games that don't run on Vista. Even with DosBox, many classics such as FallOut and Ultima IV are unplayable. This is an area where studying classic movies is probably easier than classic games -baylor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com Mon Sep 21 20:56:01 2009 From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:56:01 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin Message-ID: <4AB820A1.3060507@designdirectdeliver.com> Hello Education SIG Members, My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting business called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more about my company and me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php. IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair and Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game Development SIG (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG, Casual Games SIG, Education SIG (now!), Human Resources SIG, Game Design SIG, Online Games SIG, Production SIG, Quality of Life SIG, Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG. I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter Guidance Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange County Chapter for the IGDA. I'm excited to be here and learn more about the needs of educators and what developers can do to help and how game programs can effect the industry as a whole. Thanks! Sheri -- *Sheri Rubin* CEO/President *Design, Direct, Deliver* Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Sep 22 04:03:15 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:03:15 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin In-Reply-To: <4AB820A1.3060507@designdirectdeliver.com> References: <4AB820A1.3060507@designdirectdeliver.com> Message-ID: <4AB884C3.1050905@aarmstrong.org> Hey Sheri, Welcome, and just a quick question - do we really have a programmers SIG at the IGDA? I've never heard of it :) Andrew Sheri Rubin wrote: > Hello Education SIG Members, > > My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting > business called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more about > my company and me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php. > > IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair and > Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game Development > SIG (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG, Casual Games SIG, > Education SIG (now!), Human Resources SIG, Game Design SIG, Online > Games SIG, Production SIG, Quality of Life SIG, Programmers SIG, and > Writing SIG. > > I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter > Guidance Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange > County Chapter for the IGDA. > > I'm excited to be here and learn more about the needs of educators and > what developers can do to help and how game programs can effect the > industry as a whole. > > Thanks! > Sheri > > > -- > *Sheri Rubin* > CEO/President > > *Design, Direct, Deliver* > Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com > Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com Tue Sep 22 04:35:24 2009 From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:35:24 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin In-Reply-To: <4AB884C3.1050905@aarmstrong.org> References: <4AB820A1.3060507@designdirectdeliver.com> <4AB884C3.1050905@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4AB88C4C.2030200@designdirectdeliver.com> I'm assuming that's rhetorical otherwise you're accusing me of making things up or lying. :) Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Hey Sheri, > > Welcome, and just a quick question - do we really have a programmers > SIG at the IGDA? I've never heard of it :) > > Andrew -- *Sheri Rubin* CEO/President *Design, Direct, Deliver* Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Sep 22 05:05:27 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:05:27 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin In-Reply-To: <4AB88C4C.2030200@designdirectdeliver.com> References: <4AB820A1.3060507@designdirectdeliver.com> <4AB884C3.1050905@aarmstrong.org> <4AB88C4C.2030200@designdirectdeliver.com> Message-ID: <4AB89357.4040300@aarmstrong.org> No, I honestly can't find it on the IGDA website! (but then again, that doesn't mean much). Maybe it's just out of date and it's a more recent thing then when they last updated the pages, got a URL? I want to join :D Andrew Sheri Rubin wrote: > I'm assuming that's rhetorical otherwise you're accusing me of making > things up or lying. :) > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> Hey Sheri, >> >> Welcome, and just a quick question - do we really have a programmers >> SIG at the IGDA? I've never heard of it :) >> >> Andrew > -- > *Sheri Rubin* > CEO/President > > *Design, Direct, Deliver* > Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com > Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu Tue Sep 22 13:17:48 2009 From: pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu (pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Malcolm, I would be interested in your list. Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all students should have played and critically examined? Ted Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. Undergraduate Program Director Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 > Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't >> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >> >> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >> >> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >> Does anyone know more about this? >> >> Malcolm >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > From ai864 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 22 14:18:41 2009 From: ai864 at yahoo.com (Ian Schreiber) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <44276.28963.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make one of my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each major genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then you will come up with a very different list than if you are looking for games that offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is different from a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique visual art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it might be better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure to a few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given course, and make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game Appreciation" course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you run the danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self-contained). - Ian ________________________________ From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright Malcolm, I would be interested in your list. Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all students should have played and critically examined? Ted Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. Undergraduate Program Director Computer Science Dept.? ? ? (585) 275-4198 University of Rochester? ? ? FAX (585) 273-4556 Rochester, NY? 14627-0226? pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 > Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't >> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >> >> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >> >> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >> Does anyone know more about this? >> >> Malcolm >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmiller at fullsail.com Tue Sep 22 14:56:43 2009 From: gmiller at fullsail.com (Miller, Gary) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:56:43 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Message-ID: Although the concept of Abandon ware is not a legal position there are choices here: http://abandongames.com/ From plandweh at cs.cmu.edu Tue Sep 22 15:33:52 2009 From: plandweh at cs.cmu.edu (Pete[r] Landwehr) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:33:52 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Message-ID: ... which should be followed by a mention of abandonia. http://www.abandonia.com/ On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Miller, Gary wrote: > > Although the concept of Abandon ware is not a legal position there are > choices here: > > http://abandongames.com/ > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > From darius.kazemi at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 15:52:30 2009 From: darius.kazemi at gmail.com (Darius Kazemi) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:52:30 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <7f9d076a0909221252n55786921k3a13c0e86d49ac66@mail.gmail.com> Which features such "abandonware" games as SimCity 2000, which is clearly not owned by a company that begins with "E" and ends with "A". On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Pete[r] Landwehr wrote: > ... which should be followed by a mention of abandonia. > http://www.abandonia.com/ > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Miller, Gary > wrote: > > > > Although the concept of Abandon ware is not a legal position there are > > choices here: > > > > http://abandongames.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > game_edu mailing list > > game_edu at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar Tue Sep 22 16:50:18 2009 From: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar (Anibal Menezes) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:50:18 -0300 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com Tue Sep 22 17:23:32 2009 From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:23:32 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB94054.8010508@designdirectdeliver.com> Hi Anibal, I know some schools offer their faculty and students with reduced costs on basic software like Office, McAfee, etc. It's not exactly what you're looking for but would major software companies like Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk and console guys like Sony, MS, and Nintendo, and publishers like EA, THQ, etc. offering educational discount programs be kind of what you need? Sheri Anibal Menezes wrote: > Hi, Sheri. > > One thing I have discussed previously with some other people in the > list is that developers should facilitate access to games and > platforms for educational purposes, instead of considering educational > institutions as another revenue making division, with educational > licensing fees that sometimes we just can't afford. > > In our case, we're in South America (more specifically in Argentina) > and, when it comes to hardware we have to consider shipping costs and > import duties. So, if let's say a Dev Kit costs $ 1,200 in the US, we > have add at least other $ 500 just to introduce it in our country. > When it comes to software, though today we can just download the newer > version (which represents also a fraction of cost for the developer > for delivery) we still have to consider the cost of licenses. We have > tree labs, two of them with 17 computers and one with 21, which adds > up to 55 units and, of course, 55 licenses. If we sould equip all labs > with certain software license that costs $ 199 a piece, we end up with > a bill a little over $ 10k, which is not viable for us. > > I understand that there must be differences among educational > institutions (some are public, some are not, others are in developing > countries, others in developed ones, some can pay, others definitely > can't, some country's game industry is mature, others country's game > industry is emergent and education is very important to consolidate). > Do any other teacher or professor have faced a situation where you > just can't consider a product that would be beneficial for teaching > because of its cost? > > In the end, we are training future customers for these companies and > it would be wiser to consider us as partners, not customers, don't you > thnk? Couldn't IGDA be a channel for Academia to have access to > licenses at a more reasonable or at viable costs? > > *Anibal Menezes > *Departamento de Relaciones Institucionales > amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar > > Salta 239 - C1074AAE - Buenos Aires - Argentina > Tel. (011) 43 83 22 44 / Fax. (011) 43 83 29 92 > info at imagecampus.com.ar / www.imagecampus.com.ar > > > *Image Campus. *Otra educaci?n > *Dise?o - Animaci?n - Programaci?n - Desarrollo* > > Este mensaje es estrictamente confidencial. Puede contener informaci?n > amparada y protegida por el secreto profesional. Si usted ha recibido > este e-mail por error, por favor comun?quese inmediatamente v?a e-mail > info at imagecampus.com.ar y elim?nelo > de su sistema. Este mensaje no puede ser copiado ni divulgado su > contenido a ninguna persona. Muchas gracias. > > This message is strictly confidential. It may also be privileged or > otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If > you have received it by mistake please let us know by reply or to > "info at imagecampus.com.ar " and then > delete it from your system. You should not copy the message or > disclose its contents to anyone. Thank you. > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > *De*: Sheri Rubin > *Enviado el*: 21/09/2009 09:56:01 p.m. > *Para*: game_edu at igda.org > *Asunto*:[game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > > Hello Education SIG Members, > > My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting > business called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more > about my company and me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php. > > IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair > and Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game > Development SIG (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG, > Casual Games SIG, Education SIG (now!), Human Resources SIG, Game > Design SIG, Online Games SIG, Production SIG, Quality of Life SIG, > Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG. > > I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter > Guidance Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange > County Chapter for the IGDA. > > I'm excited to be here and learn more about the needs of educators > and what developers can do to help and how game programs can > effect the industry as a whole. > > Thanks! > Sheri > > > -- > *Sheri Rubin* > CEO/President > > *Design, Direct, Deliver* > Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com > > Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -- *Sheri Rubin* CEO/President *Design, Direct, Deliver* Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baylorw at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 17:45:16 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:45:16 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com Tue Sep 22 17:54:05 2009 From: DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com (Dan Carreker) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:54:05 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) References: Message-ID: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Baylor, I think you have some great points here. USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will come up. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darius.kazemi at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 17:58:59 2009 From: darius.kazemi at gmail.com (Darius Kazemi) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:58:59 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: <7f9d076a0909221458u2722d52bx853b2ca2485e9aa1@mail.gmail.com> I think the answer is, "If you care about placement rates, you're doing this whole 'education' thing wrong." But hey, that's my two curmudgeonly cents :) -Darius On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Dan Carreker wrote: > Baylor, > > I think you have some great points here. > > USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) > Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk > soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will > come up. > > > > Dan Carreker > www.NarrativeDesigns.com > "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. > I'd type a little faster." - Asimov > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* baylor wetzel > *To:* amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM > *Subject:* Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > > >In the end, we are training future customers for these > > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > > i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that > it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is > placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game > companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of > (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, > being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with > game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, > snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i > honestly don't see any reason why they should > > It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are > often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a > relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire > aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people > (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they > should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they > shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not > insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially > given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the > number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? > > We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not > very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we > want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of > them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic > bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in > Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As > much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source > code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy > with just the game companies showing up at our career fair > > -baylor > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baylorw at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 18:01:05 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:01:05 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: >USC has a 49% placement rate? Oh lord no. i was at their last demo days in May and from listening in the hall, it sounded like everyone had multiple offers. i watched give people in a row turn down an executive from a particularly well known MMO that my students would have killed to get into. i'd be surprised if their placement rate wasn't near 100% The last statistics i saw said 49% of all game jobs in North America are in LA. 18% are in Austin and then a handful of cities (or North Carolina) had the majority of the rest. Games jobs, like Hollywood jobs, are very concentrated geographically. My school, in the midwest, has a hard time getting companies to visit us (especially in Winter), which is perhaps why we've had 40-50 of our students at the last 3 GDCs. LA, on the other hand, has game companies everywhere, so it's less of an imposition for their staff to show up at a local school Location isn't the only reason USC's program places so many people (from what i can tell, it's actually a pretty good program), but it certainly helps -b On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Dan Carreker wrote: > Baylor, > > I think you have some great points here. > > USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) > Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk > soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will > come up. > > > > Dan Carreker > www.NarrativeDesigns.com > "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. > I'd type a little faster." - Asimov > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* baylor wetzel > *To:* amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM > *Subject:* Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > > >In the end, we are training future customers for these > > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > > i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that > it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is > placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game > companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of > (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, > being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with > game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, > snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i > honestly don't see any reason why they should > > It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are > often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a > relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire > aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people > (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they > should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they > shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not > insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially > given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the > number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? > > We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not > very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we > want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of > them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic > bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in > Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As > much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source > code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy > with just the game companies showing up at our career fair > > -baylor > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goldfile at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 18:19:24 2009 From: goldfile at gmail.com (Susan Gold) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:19:24 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076752F-88F0-4388-B3BA-C4664F5479D2@gmail.com> The truth is we are a very small percentage of the user base. Many companies cannot afford to offer huge discounts because they themselves are just a start up working out of their garage sized company trying to survive in this economy. Then you have the large companies like Microsoft who offer things like XNA for free. Also, things like game engines are often proprietary tools when you get into the studio. I think it is more important to teach students how to make their own game engine than worry about teaching them how to use a particular one. I don't think anyone expects a new graduate to jump in and know the engine, but if they know the workings of one, they are apt to not have such a steep learning curve. The truth is that students will always have to be getting up to speed on the latest and the greatest. Currently I am working with a company looking to try to help academia with access to research, they sell access in the $25K per seat arena, dropping it to $1K is a huge step for them. And I'll tell you, it has taken me many months to work with this one company just to get it down to $1K per seat. I'll be able to discuss details of this in short order. But these things take time and a lot of work. I like the idea of a way to create a consortium of some sort, but we need people power to make it happen. Do we have any volunteers? Susan On Sep 22, 2009, at 5:45 PM, baylor wetzel wrote: > >In the end, we are training future customers for these > > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > > i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure > that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is > facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs > with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game > schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all > North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my > school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish > they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free > (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any > reason why they should > > It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and > developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of > business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly > difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game > degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a > degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire > someone different (although there's a good argument that they > shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the > (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, > especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the > growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? > > We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) > and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop > and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them > movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours > per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus > Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) > or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we > could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half- > Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with > just the game companies showing up at our career fair > > -baylor > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -- Susan Gold In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! - J. G. Ballard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Sep 22 18:49:42 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:49:42 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <7f9d076a0909221252n55786921k3a13c0e86d49ac66@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> <7f9d076a0909221252n55786921k3a13c0e86d49ac66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB95486.3010106@aarmstrong.org> You want Liberated Games for truely free games: http://www.liberatedgames.com/ I think there every major genre is covered, if you must have that (what's a major genre? think you can narrow that down enough? :) ). Abandonware is basically only in the "not being sued" area (certainly in some cases because no one can figure out, or even cares about the rights to a game). For preservation work (and therefore, partially, education) it's one of the only ways to find certain titles, for better or worse. As for "what people should play" - if you do narrow it down to a genre, then certainly "suggested titles" might be good, but also simply having a good list of what constitutes a genre is a nice idea, since people can easily pair off what they have from that kind of selection. I mean, if you've played Halo, then you've got a good grasp of console FPS gameplay and design, so why would you also need to play Killzone? (and vice versa, with many more examples to boot!). With that in mind, I found the list produced by this quick Game Career Guide article to be pretty neat, and I've not even got around to all the games on it (I need someone to properly teach me some of them, others are on consoles I've never owned): http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/668/ask_the_experts_31_games_students_.php Everyone has their list - what I found interesting about this one was, apart from being mixed (and not by any word complete) it had board games, infamous games, and games specifically about their design - card games, the "first" in a type of genre, and more. Very varied, which is great. One day I'm going to compile a ton of "lists" (yeah, yeah, great internet content right?) into something more fathomable, since I keep forgetting "classics" or "must play" even though I've played them myself - but then again, perhaps if I can't recall them all off the top of my head, they're not that great! (Lucky I don't have to teach this, I'm on here of course more as an observer :) ). I wonder how much of it comes down to simple nostalgia sometimes though, and if teaching people about certain old games is not a good thing. Lots of questions in what to promote! It's a creative craft after all, there is, I think, little in the way of "right" or "wrong". Andrew Darius Kazemi wrote: > Which features such "abandonware" games as SimCity 2000, which is > clearly not owned by a company that begins with "E" and ends with "A". > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Pete[r] Landwehr > wrote: > > ... which should be followed by a mention of abandonia. > http://www.abandonia.com/ > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Miller, Gary > > wrote: > > > > Although the concept of Abandon ware is not a legal position > there are > > choices here: > > > > http://abandongames.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > game_edu mailing list > > game_edu at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rene at clikmedia.ca Wed Sep 16 14:16:39 2009 From: rene at clikmedia.ca (Rene St-Pierre) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:16:39 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Video games in art education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Video games in art education Under the supervision of Monique Richard of the UQAM ?cole des arts visuels et m?diatiques [school of visual and media arts, http://www.eavm.uqam.ca/], Ren? St-Pierre is observing and documenting the emerging practices in arts education that use information technologies, specifically gaming applications and educational video games. This research also led him to explore similar practices in higher education and professional development using serious gaming. For Le Lien MULTIM?DIA, he talked about the use of educational video games in art classes, or "how to develop creativity while having fun.? Please read the attached PDF file. A more exhaustive list of examples of games used in the context of art education (under Video games for teaching art) is available at: http://www.clikmedia.ca/CM/CM_FR/swf/exemples.html Best regards Ren? St-Pierre M.A. Communication Ph.D. Art Studies and Practices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Video_Game_and_Art_Education.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 129219 bytes Desc: not available Url : From gamekog at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 22:55:41 2009 From: gamekog at gmail.com (Kevin O'Gorman) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:55:41 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Academic Roundtable Planned for SIEGE Message-ID: Here's an opportunity for anyone who can be in Atlanta in a few weeks: The Southern Interactive Entertainment and Games Expo (SIEGE) and the Georgia Game Developers Association will be hosting an Academic Rountable for people involved in game development education on Sunday October 4th. Educators, administrators, and advisors are welcome. I am serving as moderator for the event and we plan to cover topics like curriculum, best practices, industry relations and whatever might pop up. Visit siegecon.net for details on how to register and to see the other events we are planning over the three days. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at kevin.ogorman "at" ggda.org. It woul dbe nice to see other Ed SIG members there. Kevin O'Gorman Art Institute of Atlanta GGDA Academics Committee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu Tue Sep 22 23:26:54 2009 From: pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu (pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <44276.28963.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> <44276.28963.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60142.65.37.26.244.1253676414.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone with specific course goals could select from the list. > Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) > > There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make one of > my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. > > I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game > literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each major > genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then you will > come up with a very different list than if you are looking for games that > offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is different from > a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique visual > art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. > > Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it might be > better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure to a > few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given course, and > make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the > games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game Appreciation" > course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit > everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you run the > danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't > relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self-contained). > > - Ian > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM > Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright > > > Malcolm, > > I would be interested in your list. > > Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have > a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all > students should have played and critically examined? > > Ted > > > Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. > Undergraduate Program Director > Computer Science Dept.? ? ? (585) 275-4198 > University of Rochester? ? ? FAX (585) 273-4556 > Rochester, NY? 14627-0226? pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu > http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ > > > ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may > despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men > out > of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 > >> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't >>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>> >>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>> >>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >>> Does anyone know more about this? >>> >>> Malcolm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > From gmiller at fullsail.com Wed Sep 23 09:01:18 2009 From: gmiller at fullsail.com (Miller, Gary) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:01:18 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement rate but I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and point you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine Architecture II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design Program and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much about. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Dan Carreker Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Baylor, I think you have some great points here. USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will come up. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From baylorw at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 10:49:09 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:49:09 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt -baylor On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: > Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement rate but > I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob > rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and point > you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine Architecture > II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design Program > and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much about. > > -----Original Message----- > From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of Dan Carreker > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > Baylor, > > I think you have some great points here. > > USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) > Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk > soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question > will come up. > > > > Dan Carreker > www.NarrativeDesigns.com > "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. > I'd type a little faster." - Asimov > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: baylor wetzel > To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > > >In the end, we are training future customers for these > > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > > i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not > sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is > facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with > game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i > know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American > game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot > of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us > licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies > of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should > > It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and > developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, > so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the > people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and > talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic > portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a > good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their > incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships > with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last > few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly > dizzying)? > > We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal > 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop > and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies > and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to > find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low > int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study > concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a > motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free > copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies > showing up at our career fair > > -baylor > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmiller at fullsail.com Wed Sep 23 11:25:29 2009 From: gmiller at fullsail.com (Miller, Gary) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:25:29 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: I am at the limit of my knowledge on what count but I know that if we fall below 70% we will loose our accreditation so we push to find out what our graduates are doing. There is always a bigger push when we get audited by the accreditation folks. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of baylor wetzel Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:49 AM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt -baylor On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement rate but I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and point you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine Architecture II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design Program and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much about. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Dan Carreker Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Baylor, I think you have some great points here. USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will come up. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net Wed Sep 23 11:27:22 2009 From: Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net (Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:27:22 +0100 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Who are "the accreditation folks", though? Does it vary for each discipline? Sarah Lemari? Infrastructure Manager & Academic Liaison Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited t: +44 (0)20 7859 5200 e: sarah_lemarie at scee.net w: http://research.scee.net "Miller, Gary" Sent by: game_edu-bounces at igda.org 23/09/2009 16:25 Please respond to IGDA Game Education Listserv To "IGDA Game Education Listserv" cc Subject Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) I am at the limit of my knowledge on what count but I know that if we fall below 70% we will loose our accreditation so we push to find out what our graduates are doing. There is always a bigger push when we get audited by the accreditation folks. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of baylor wetzel Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:49 AM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt -baylor On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement rate but I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and point you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine Architecture II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design Program and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much about. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Dan Carreker Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Baylor, I think you have some great points here. USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will come up. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster at scee.net This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for all known viruses. Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited Registered Office: 10 Great Marlborough Street, London W1F 7LP, United Kingdom Registered in England: 3277793 ********************************************************************** P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmiller at fullsail.com Wed Sep 23 11:49:18 2009 From: gmiller at fullsail.com (Miller, Gary) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:49:18 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe that the "folks" are from the group that we are accredited through as a University. I believe that each program has to prove the 70% number it is not an across the board number. But this is not my expertise ... -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:27 AM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Who are "the accreditation folks", though? Does it vary for each discipline? Sarah Lemari? Infrastructure Manager & Academic Liaison Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited t: +44 (0)20 7859 5200 e: sarah_lemarie at scee.net w: http://research.scee.net "Miller, Gary" Sent by: game_edu-bounces at igda.org 23/09/2009 16:25 Please respond to IGDA Game Education Listserv To "IGDA Game Education Listserv" cc Subject Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) I am at the limit of my knowledge on what count but I know that if we fall below 70% we will loose our accreditation so we push to find out what our graduates are doing. There is always a bigger push when we get audited by the accreditation folks. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of baylor wetzel Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:49 AM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt -baylor On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement rate but I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and point you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine Architecture II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design Program and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much about. -----Original Message----- From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Dan Carreker Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) Baylor, I think you have some great points here. USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will come up. Dan Carreker www.NarrativeDesigns.com "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Asimov ----- Original Message ----- From: baylor wetzel To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >In the end, we are training future customers for these > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they should It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game companies showing up at our career fair -baylor ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster at scee.net This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for all known viruses. Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited Registered Office: 10 Great Marlborough Street, London W1F 7LP, United Kingdom Registered in England: 3277793 ********************************************************************** P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From baylorw at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 11:58:56 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:58:56 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For us, it's 70%, regardless of field of study. And when the accreditors (or whatever they're called) come by, we have to do a lot of paperwork so we can show them our rubrics, syllabi, etc., and all of that is independent of field - they want to make sure that we have measures and process and aren't at all interested (as far as i can tell) in the details of the field (the accreditors certify or delist the school as a whole, not a program) Another issue we've had (and continue to have) is teacher degrees. Honestly, we have people with advanced degrees and people with experience but rarely both. Some of our best people do not have college degrees. An Emmy or an Oscar or a series of big name titles but not degrees. Accreditation doesn't like that (for very understandable reasons) but for us it (combined with placement rates) meant laying off some very good staff last Christmas and turning down some good people that were willing to work for what we pay :) Of course, we still have those people, we just hired them back as adjuncts. Same teaching load (25 contact/in-class hours/quarter) but significantly less pay and no benefits. i'm not sure what the accreditation rules are on degrees for adjuncts but for right now that's where several of those people are -b On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: > I believe that the "folks" are from the group that we are accredited > through as a University. I believe that each program has to prove the 70% > number it is not an across the board number. But this is not my expertise > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:27 AM > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > > Who are "the accreditation folks", though? Does it vary for each > discipline? > > Sarah Lemari? > Infrastructure Manager & Academic Liaison Sony Computer Entertainment > Europe Limited > t: +44 (0)20 7859 5200 > e: sarah_lemarie at scee.net > w: http://research.scee.net > > > > > > > "Miller, Gary" > Sent by: game_edu-bounces at igda.org > > 23/09/2009 16:25 > Please respond to > IGDA Game Education Listserv > > > To > "IGDA Game Education Listserv" > cc > Subject > Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > > > > > > I am at the limit of my knowledge on what count but I know that if we > fall below 70% we will loose our accreditation so we push to find out > what our graduates are doing. There is always a bigger push when we get > audited by the accreditation folks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of baylor wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:49 AM > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% > placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as > in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i > hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation > > One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program > explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large > companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming > hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, > indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game > companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. > Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a > publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone > who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a > week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what > criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so > placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt > > -baylor > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary > wrote: > > > Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% > placement > rate but > I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob > rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats > and > point > you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine > Architecture > II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game > Design > Program > and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much > about. > > -----Original Message----- > From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On > Behalf Of Dan Carreker > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - > Sheri Rubin) > > Baylor, > > I think you have some great points here. > > USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you > correctly) > Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm > giving a > talk > soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this > question > will come up. > > > > Dan Carreker > www.NarrativeDesigns.com > "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. > I'd type a little faster." - Asimov > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: baylor wetzel > To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game > Education > Listserv > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > > >In the end, we are training future customers for > these > > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as > > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > > i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, > but > i'm not > sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue > our > school is > facing is placement - most of our students just aren't > getting > jobs with > game companies. This situation is true for most of the game > schools i > know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all > North > American > game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school > has > a lot > of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd > give > us > licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or > cheap) > copies > of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why > they > should > > It's also worth noting that publishers aren't > developers > and > developers are often very, very small and frequently go out > of > business, > so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. > Many > of the > people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're > friends and > talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a > fantastic > portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different > (although > there's a > good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So > what's > their > incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage > relationships > with game schools, especially given how many have popped up > in > the last > few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been > truly > dizzying)? > > We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor > in > Unreal > 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such > as > Photoshop > and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show > them movies > and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours > per > game to > find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex > or > the low > int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to > study > concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could > get > Mudbox, a > motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and > unlimited free > copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game > companies > showing up at our career fair > > -baylor > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster at scee.net > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for > all known viruses. > Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited > Registered Office: 10 Great Marlborough Street, London W1F 7LP, United > Kingdom > Registered in England: 3277793 > ********************************************************************** > P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at supercosm.com Wed Sep 23 12:41:30 2009 From: john at supercosm.com (John Sharp) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:41:30 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61639BFA-9130-47B0-8104-67DA26171C5C@supercosm.com> Accreditation varies from institution to institution. At Savannah College of Art and Design, we're accredited as an institution by the Southeastern Association of Colleges and Schools. Within SCAD, some departments are further accredited by industry-specific organizations as required by that particular field and or law. Architecture and interior design, for example, both have outside accreditation, for example. As far as I know, there isn't an accreditation body for game design/ dev, though it has been a topic of conversation within the education SIG from time to time. John Sharp | supercosm LLC | www.supercosm.com | P 404 377 5440 | C 917 673 0374 On Sep 23, 2009, at 11:58 AM, game_edu-request at igda.org wrote: > game_edu at igda.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ai864 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 23 13:08:45 2009 From: ai864 at yahoo.com (Ian Schreiber) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <219678.71142.qm@web39703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The issue of degrees varies between accreditation bodies, I think. From talking to others at places like GDC, it seems like some schools are required to keep a certain % of faculty with advanced degrees, no ifs-ands-or-buts, while others are able to substitute field experience for degrees in some cases. If this is a problem for your school, it would definitely be worth your time to contact your accrediting body and see where the rules can be bent so that you can attract the best faculty. Certainly, if accreditation is actually decreasing the quality of education, that is the opposite of what an accrediting board is supposed to be doing... As for adjuncts, that probably also varies (in terms of what kinds of degrees your adjuncts need, and also what fraction of your faculty is full-time in the first place). I know that in academia at large (not game-specific) there has been a trend towards relying more and more on adjuncts lately due to the cost savings... and I wonder if there will be a backlash from that in a few more years (for example, imagine a school with 25% adjuncts that suddenly found with an economic upturn that half of its adjuncts left for industry again -- can you imagine staffing up that much within the space of a single term, or cutting as many classes?). - Ian ________________________________ From: baylor wetzel To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:58:56 AM Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) For us, it's 70%, regardless of field of study. And when the accreditors (or whatever they're called) come by, we have to do a lot of paperwork so we can show them our rubrics, syllabi, etc., and all of that is independent of field - they want to make sure that we have measures and process and aren't at all interested (as far as i can tell) in the details of the field (the accreditors certify or delist the school as a whole, not a program) Another issue we've had (and continue to have) is teacher degrees. Honestly, we have people with advanced degrees and people with experience but rarely both. Some of our best people do not have college degrees. An Emmy or an Oscar or a series of big name titles but not degrees. Accreditation doesn't like that (for very understandable reasons) but for us it (combined with placement rates) meant laying off some very good staff last Christmas and turning down some good people that were willing to work for what we pay :) Of course, we still have those people, we just hired them back as adjuncts. Same teaching load (25 contact/in-class hours/quarter) but significantly less pay and no benefits. i'm not sure what the accreditation rules are on degrees for adjuncts but for right now that's where several of those people are -b On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Miller, Gary wrote: >I believe that the "folks" are from the group that we are accredited through as a University. I believe that each program has to prove the 70% number it is not an across the board number. But this is not my expertise ... > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Sarah_Lemarie at scee.net >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:27 AM >>To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > >>Who are "the accreditation folks", though? Does it vary for each discipline? > >>Sarah Lemari? >>Infrastructure Manager & Academic Liaison Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited >>t: +44 (0)20 7859 5200 >>e: sarah_lemarie at scee.net >>w: http://research.scee.net > > > > > > >> "Miller, Gary" >>Sent by: game_edu-bounces at igda.org > >>23/09/2009 16:25 >>Please respond to >>IGDA Game Education Listserv > > >>To >>"IGDA Game Education Listserv" >>cc >>Subject >>Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > > > > > > >>I am at the limit of my knowledge on what count but I know that if we >>fall below 70% we will loose our accreditation so we push to find out >>what our graduates are doing. There is always a bigger push when we get >>audited by the accreditation folks. > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On >>Behalf Of baylor wetzel >>Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:49 AM >>To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > >>Is that an accreditation issue? We're also required to have a 70% >>placement "in field" (and we sometimes fight over what counts as >>in-field), but i thought it was an arbitrary number our school chose. i >>hadn't realized that it was set by accreditation > >>One issue i'm unsure of is how we handle "self-employed". Our program >>explicitly focuses on small game companies - we place people in large >>companies from time to time but we realize the midwest isn't the gaming >>hotspot so we try to make them well rounded and prepare them for small, >>indie and casual game jobs. A lot of students start their own game >>companies. The question is whether to count those as being employed. >>Someone with a staff of five, some venture capital, a real office and a >>publisher relationship working 40 hours a week should count but someone >>who has a day job at Walmart, tinkers with a game idea a few hours a >>week and claims to have a game company should not. i don't know what >>criteria my school uses (or how it can even verify the facts), so >>placement rates should probably be taken with a grain of salt > >>-baylor > > > >>On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Miller, Gary >>wrote: > > >> Our accreditation is contingent on maintaining a 70% placement >>rate but >> I do not know how that is measured. If you email Coble, Rob >> rcoble at fullsail.com he might be able to give you some stats and >>point >> you to the measures. I teach Operating Systems and Machine >>Architecture >> II in our Game Development program but we do have a Game Design >>Program >> and a Masters in Game Development which I do not know much >>about. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org >>[mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On >> Behalf Of Dan Carreker >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:54 PM >> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >> Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - >>Sheri Rubin) > >> Baylor, > >> I think you have some great points here. > >> USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you >>correctly) >> Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a >>talk >> soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this >>question >> will come up. > > > >> Dan Carreker >> www.NarrativeDesigns.com >> "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. >> I'd type a little faster." - Asimov > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: baylor wetzel >> To: amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education >>Listserv >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin > >> >In the end, we are training future customers for these >> > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as >> > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? > >> i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but >>i'm not >> sure that it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our >>school is >> facing is placement - most of our students just aren't getting >>jobs with >> game companies. This situation is true for most of the game >>schools i >> know of (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North >>American >> game jobs, being the big exception). i don't think my school has >>a lot >> of leverage with game companies and although i wish they'd give >>us >> licenses for old games, snippets of source code, free (or cheap) >>copies >> of Unreal 2007, etc., i honestly don't see any reason why they >>should > >> It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers >>and >> developers are often very, very small and frequently go out of >>business, >> so setting up a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many >>of the >> people they hire aren't people with game degrees, they're >>friends and >> talented people (probably without a degree) who send in a >>fantastic >> portfolio. Maybe they should hire someone different (although >>there's a >> good argument that they shouldn't), but they don't. So what's >>their >> incentive to take the (not insubstantial) time to manage >>relationships >> with game schools, especially given how many have popped up in >>the last >> few years (the growth in the number of game schools has been >>truly >> dizzying)? > >> We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in >>Unreal >> 2004) and not very cheap educational versions of tools such as >>Photoshop >> and 3DSMax. If we want to show them "classic" games, we show >>them movies >> and screenshots of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per >>game to >> find those classic bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or >>the low >> int dialog option in Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study >> concepts, we make our clones. As much as we wish we could get >>Mudbox, a >> motion capture system, the source code to Half-Life and >>unlimited free >> copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy with just the game >>companies >> showing up at our career fair > >> -baylor > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>game_edu mailing list >game_edu at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > >>********************************************************************** >>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster at scee.net >> >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for all known viruses. >>Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited >>Registered Office: 10 Great Marlborough Street, London W1F 7LP, United Kingdom >>Registered in England: 3277793 >>********************************************************************** >>P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail >>_______________________________________________ >>game_edu mailing list >game_edu at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baylorw at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 13:26:06 2009 From: baylorw at gmail.com (baylor wetzel) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:26:06 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: <219678.71142.qm@web39703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <219678.71142.qm@web39703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I wonder if there will be a backlash from that in a few > more years (for example, imagine a school with > 25% adjuncts that suddenly found with an economic > upturn that half of its adjuncts left for industry again In our case, we went from ~18 full time/0 adjunct to 8 full time and some number of adjunct (6-7 i think). We were already teaching 5-6 classes/quarter, so workloads increased and the chair always seems to be a few seconds away from a heart attack, but he somehow manages it (we have a really good chair). We've also managed it by increasing the number of students we turn away (i think we've always turned away a fair number, but it got a lot stricter this year) We were told by our parent institution that we were out of sync with comparable schools in the number of adjuncts (and therefore, cost). They had let us skate by because our program was wildly successful in recruiting (in ~7 years we've grown from zero students to ~650, roughly half the school). Now that we're ~50% adjunct, i wonder if we're at the average. i personally thought it was a bad idea to lay off so many people - we could have really hurt the school if those people hadn't come back as adjuncts. But the administration felt the current staff would come back and they were correct, so from their standpoint, it was a good move Like most schools, we don't have a lot of game companies nearby. Most have had layoffs, which is where a lot of our faculty came from. One recently packed up and moved to North Carolina, leaving a lot of game developers looking for jobs and willing to work (for now) for what we pay (~$40k-$60k+benefits for full time, i think ~$2k per class for adjunct). We haven't (in our area) lived through an upswing where everyone went away for better jobs but i know at least half our faculty has side companies that, if they take off, will probably leave We have lost several of our senior faculty, but not to game companies. They all went to normal businesses where they work less and get paid more (and have happier wives and possibly kids). i saw the same thing in the game industry for the same type of people at the same age (early to mid '30s, first kid) -baylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lewpuls at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 13:37:31 2009 From: lewpuls at gmail.com (Lewis Pulsipher) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:37:31 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Different kinds of accreditation causing confusion Message-ID: <790382db0909231037u5abff844ke82cce7d3775e71d@mail.gmail.com> You're talking about two very different kinds of accreditation. Full Sail is accredited as a trade school, not a standard college, which makes it plausible that they're expected to have a 70% placement rate, vastly higher than the typical placement rate of standard colleges. If they're specifically teaching a trade, the students ought to succeed in it. SCAD and a few others with game-related programs are accredited as standard colleges and universities. The standard college accreditors have become "academic Nazis" more interested in degrees than in knowledge or experience. In one extreme example I heard from the college president himself, SACS deemed a person with a Ph.D. in Zoology not qualified to teach freshman biology--degree not specifically in biology! The college let him go rather than contest this (which doesn't say anything good about the college, does it?). Full Sail is called a "university" because the state of Florida approved that name change, it has nothing to do with accreditation. LP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnordhagen at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 13:06:34 2009 From: jnordhagen at gmail.com (Johnnemann Nordhagen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:06:34 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) In-Reply-To: References: <02f401ca3bcf$34d40660$6701a8c0@dcl> Message-ID: <558f402b0909231006x3e17edeen316698dce47363d4@mail.gmail.com> I'd be curious to see the source of those statistics - are you sure it was LA specifically, and not California as a whole? The San Francisco Bay Area is also a big games center - larger than LA, I think, with LucasArts and all its spin-offs, Sony, Capcom, Konami, and of course EA. Seattle might also be up there, with MS, Nintendo, and Valve, plus a handful of others. On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM, baylor wetzel wrote: > >USC has a 49% placement rate? > > Oh lord no. i was at their last demo days in May and from listening in the > hall, it sounded like everyone had multiple offers. i watched give people in > a row turn down an executive from a particularly well known MMO that my > students would have killed to get into. i'd be surprised if their placement > rate wasn't near 100% > > The last statistics i saw said 49% of all game jobs in North America are in > LA. 18% are in Austin and then a handful of cities (or North Carolina) had > the majority of the rest. Games jobs, like Hollywood jobs, are very > concentrated geographically. My school, in the midwest, has a hard time > getting companies to visit us (especially in Winter), which is perhaps why > we've had 40-50 of our students at the last 3 GDCs. LA, on the other hand, > has game companies everywhere, so it's less of an imposition for their staff > to show up at a local school > > Location isn't the only reason USC's program places so many people (from > what i can tell, it's actually a pretty good program), but it certainly > helps > > -b > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Dan Carreker wrote: > >> Baylor, >> >> I think you have some great points here. >> >> USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you correctly) >> Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a talk >> soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this question will >> come up. >> >> >> >> Dan Carreker >> www.NarrativeDesigns.com >> "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. >> I'd type a little faster." - Asimov >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* baylor wetzel >> *To:* amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >> >> >In the end, we are training future customers for these >> > companies and it would be wiser to consider us as >> > partners, not customers, don't you thnk? >> >> i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not sure that >> it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is facing is >> placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game >> companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i know of >> (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American game jobs, >> being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of leverage with >> game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old games, >> snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, etc., i >> honestly don't see any reason why they should >> >> It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and developers >> are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so setting up >> a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people they hire >> aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people >> (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. Maybe they >> should hire someone different (although there's a good argument that they >> shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the (not >> insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, especially >> given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in the >> number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? >> >> We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal 2004) and >> not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and 3DSMax. >> If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and screenshots >> of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find those classic >> bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog option in >> Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our clones. As >> much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the source >> code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd be happy >> with just the game companies showing up at our career fair >> >> -baylor >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gamekog at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 13:48:01 2009 From: gamekog at gmail.com (Kevin O'Gorman) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:48:01 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, John. I knew if I kept scrolling I would find someone who would lay out the accreditation system and save me the trouble. : ) Funny how the folks accredited by SACS have such a handle on this. By the way, there are regional and national accreditors, and different ones for universities and trade schools. So you will not find one answer to fit all situations. Come to think of it, if someone would just launch a game development PhD program that is available online thye would have packed classes and we wouldn't have the terminal degree issue anymore. --Kevin O'Gorman Art Institute of Atlanta > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:41:30 -0400 > From: John Sharp > Subject: Re: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 11 > To: game_edu at igda.org > Message-ID: <61639BFA-9130-47B0-8104-67DA26171C5C at supercosm.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; > DelSp="yes" > > Accreditation varies from institution to institution. At Savannah > College of Art and Design, we're accredited as an institution by the > Southeastern Association of Colleges and Schools. Within SCAD, some > departments are further accredited by industry-specific organizations > as required by that particular field and or law. Architecture and > interior design, for example, both have outside accreditation, for > example. > > As far as I know, there isn't an accreditation body for game design/ > dev, though it has been a topic of conversation within the education > SIG from time to time. > > John Sharp > | supercosm LLC > | www.supercosm.com > | P 404 377 5440 > | C 917 673 0374 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malcolmr at cse.unsw.edu.au Wed Sep 23 20:57:21 2009 From: malcolmr at cse.unsw.edu.au (Malcolm Ryan) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:57:21 +1000 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright In-Reply-To: <60142.65.37.26.244.1253676414.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> References: <4AB74C0A.90305@aarmstrong.org> <34163.128.151.67.232.1253639868.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> <44276.28963.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <60142.65.37.26.244.1253676414.squirrel@www.cs.rochester.edu> Message-ID: On the issue of licensing, I discovered that Steam offers a special "CyberCafe" license [1] that gives access to "100 games". This may be an option for universities if they want to run a games lab. I have contacted them about educational pricing, but haven't heard anything yet. As for the games I use, I structure my course around MDA and the 8 kinds of fun [2]. My list of examples changes from year to year, but this year I've used: Bartok (card game) - A simple modifiable game to illustrate MDA Trogdor - To analyse mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics Braid - Discovery: For the elegantly crafted training levels - Sensation: the atypical choices of art and music AudioSurf - Drama: pacing and a dramatic arc The Path - Fantasy: Creating fantasy through atmosphere and indirect storytelling. - Discovery: An open world with many paths to 'victory'. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy - Storytelling: Changing avatars creates dissonance as the player's loyalties shift - Storytelling: The opening scene puts the player in media res. Mafia (round-table game) - Fellowship: Mixture of cooperation and competition. Zen bound - Sensation/Ritual: Slow meditative pacing with art and music to match. Everyday shooter - Sensation: The game is as much about interactive colour + music as it is about challenge. Galatea/Aisle/Facade - Fantasy: Storytelling with many endings. Dialogue systems. Fallout 3 - Self expression: Character creation and growth. (I could do with a shorter game to illustrate this but most RPGs tend to be long). Crayon Physics - Self expression: Not just about finding a solution, but building the 'coolest' solution. World of goo - Sensation: A consistent theme and an interface that makes the 'goo' feel almost tactile. Once Upon a Time (card game) - Fanstasy/Self Expression: A 'story-making' game that facilitates the players to tell their own story. [1] https://cafe.steampowered.com/ [2] http://8kindsoffun.com/ On 23/09/2009, at 1:26 PM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote: > > > Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of > why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone > with specific course goals could select from the list. > >> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) >> >> There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make >> one of >> my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. >> >> I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game >> literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each >> major >> genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then >> you will >> come up with a very different list than if you are looking for >> games that >> offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is >> different from >> a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique >> visual >> art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. >> >> Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it >> might be >> better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure >> to a >> few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given >> course, and >> make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the >> games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game >> Appreciation" >> course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit >> everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you >> run the >> danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't >> relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self- >> contained). >> >> - Ian >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" >> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright >> >> >> Malcolm, >> >> I would be interested in your list. >> >> Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have >> a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all >> students should have played and critically examined? >> >> Ted >> >> >> Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. >> Undergraduate Program Director >> Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 >> University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 >> Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu >> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ >> >> >> ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much >> others may >> despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by >> men >> out >> of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 >> >>> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of >>>> games >>>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there >>>> doesn't >>>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>>> >>>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>>> >>>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is >>>> available >>>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to >>>> exclude >>>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a >>>> library >>>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >>>> Does anyone know more about this? >>>> >>>> Malcolm >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu From brena.smith at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 21:49:05 2009 From: brena.smith at gmail.com (Brena Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:49:05 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright...from the librarian Message-ID: I just now zoned in on the topic of this thread - I'm a librarian and I subscribe to a number of library-related listservs, copyright comes up a lot and I tend to breeze over those. Then I realized it was coming from game_edu, so I thought I might be able to offer a little bit of advice here. First, if you haven't done so already, talk to a librarian on your campus - if there is a film librarian, talk to that person. There are a number of copyright issues related to films and libraries and these tend to be similar to copyright issues for games. You should also tell this person about the Steam licensing. I looked at your original post and it looks like there are several issues you are asking about (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these 3 points). 1) You would like to make a "reading list" or "to play list" of games available to your students? Shouldn't be any copyright issues there. That's a list you can hand out to your students or make available on your course website. It's no different than providing a bibliography of textual works. 2) Making games available on reserve in the library. Generally speaking, I don't think there are copyright issues, but you do have a console issue. How long would you let them be checked out for? Are you going to provide the consoles to the library? 3) You are interested in establishing a game collection within the library. This can be a little trickier. For example, a copy of a movie on DVD may cost $20 to a consumer. But institutional copies may be $100 - to cover copyright/royalty costs because they assume the movie will be shown to groups and multiple times. Same thing goes for institutional subscriptions to journals - an individual subscription may be $100; institutional $500 (yes, it's that much more and I'm being conservative...please go worship your campus library for paying for all of those journals...but I digress). In can get really expensive really fast. I'm sure I don't need to tell any of you how bad the economy is hitting educational institutions - and academic libraries are getting hit very hard. Most are not going to be able to maintain current subscriptions, their collections budgets are getting slashed...but I'm sure many of you know this. It might not be the best time to try to build a new collection. That said, a few libraries have begun building game collections. The two most notable that I know about are UC Santa Cruz and University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign. In fact, UIUC has developed a whole portion of their site to the collection http://www.library.illinois.edu/gaming/index.html UCSC relied heavily on donations from Sony, which took are of the copyright issues. They wrote an article about building the collection if you are interested, here's the citation: Kane, D., Soehner, D., & Wei W., 2007. Building a Collection of Video Games in Support of a Newly Created Degree Program at the University of California, Santa Cruz. *Science & Technology Libraries*, 24, 77-87. I hope this info helps somewhat. Copyright is a nasty, nasty beast for libraries and its users! Please let me know if you have any more questions. Best, Brena On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Malcolm Ryan wrote: > On the issue of licensing, I discovered that Steam offers a special > "CyberCafe" license [1] that gives access to "100 games". This may be an > option for universities if they want to run a games lab. I have contacted > them about educational pricing, but haven't heard anything yet. > > As for the games I use, I structure my course around MDA and the 8 kinds of > fun [2]. My list of examples changes from year to year, but this year I've > used: > > Bartok (card game) > - A simple modifiable game to illustrate MDA > > Trogdor > - To analyse mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics > > Braid > - Discovery: For the elegantly crafted training levels > - Sensation: the atypical choices of art and music > > AudioSurf > - Drama: pacing and a dramatic arc > > The Path > - Fantasy: Creating fantasy through atmosphere and indirect storytelling. > - Discovery: An open world with many paths to 'victory'. > > Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy > - Storytelling: Changing avatars creates dissonance as the player's > loyalties shift > - Storytelling: The opening scene puts the player in media res. > > Mafia (round-table game) > - Fellowship: Mixture of cooperation and competition. > > Zen bound > - Sensation/Ritual: Slow meditative pacing with art and music to match. > > Everyday shooter > - Sensation: The game is as much about interactive colour + music as it > is about challenge. > > Galatea/Aisle/Facade > - Fantasy: Storytelling with many endings. Dialogue systems. > > Fallout 3 > - Self expression: Character creation and growth. (I could do with a > shorter game to illustrate this but most RPGs tend to be long). > > Crayon Physics > - Self expression: Not just about finding a solution, but building the > 'coolest' solution. > > World of goo > - Sensation: A consistent theme and an interface that makes the 'goo' > feel almost tactile. > > Once Upon a Time (card game) > - Fanstasy/Self Expression: A 'story-making' game that facilitates the > players to tell their own story. > > [1] https://cafe.steampowered.com/ > [2] http://8kindsoffun.com/ > > On 23/09/2009, at 1:26 PM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote: > > >> >> Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of >> why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone >> with specific course goals could select from the list. >> >> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) >>> >>> There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make one of >>> my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. >>> >>> I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game >>> literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each major >>> genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then you >>> will >>> come up with a very different list than if you are looking for games that >>> offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is different >>> from >>> a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique visual >>> art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. >>> >>> Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it might be >>> better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure to a >>> few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given course, >>> and >>> make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the >>> games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game >>> Appreciation" >>> course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit >>> everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you run the >>> danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't >>> relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self-contained). >>> >>> - Ian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" >>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright >>> >>> >>> Malcolm, >>> >>> I would be interested in your list. >>> >>> Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have >>> a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all >>> students should have played and critically examined? >>> >>> Ted >>> >>> >>> Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. >>> Undergraduate Program Director >>> Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 >>> University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 >>> Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu >>> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ >>> >>> >>> ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others >>> may >>> despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men >>> out >>> of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 >>> >>> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>>> >>>>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >>>>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>>>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>>>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't >>>>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>>>> >>>>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>>>> >>>>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >>>>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >>>>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >>>>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >>>>> Does anyone know more about this? >>>>> >>>>> Malcolm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at supercosm.com Wed Sep 23 22:48:32 2009 From: john at supercosm.com (John Sharp) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:48:32 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <626E4983-3CB2-439D-89D0-A893FC2C25FF@supercosm.com> Lewis' comment on accreditation and what is known as justification (simply put, proving someone's qualifications to teach in a given field in the absence of a terminal degree in that field) is an important one here. With a governing body like SACS, the documentation to prove this is exhaustive (and exhausting). Using myself as an example, I had to write a 20+ page document explaining how my professional experience qualifies me to teach each learning outcome for all classes I teach. It took numerous drafts and hours and hours of work to complete and get approved. It also has to be re-done every few years when the accreditation body revises its justification criteria. SCAD is willing to at least attempt this process-- roughly 25% of our game design and dev faculty don't have terminal degrees in the field-- but not every institution is willing to even try given the burden. This can hurt the quality of education in a field like game dev where the traditional means of learning was on-the-job training and there aren't so many people out there with the proper academic credentials. But you all knew this already... On Sep 23, 2009, at 8:57 PM, game_edu-request at igda.org wrote: > Send game_edu mailing list submissions to > game_edu at igda.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > game_edu-request at igda.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > game_edu-owner at igda.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of game_edu digest..." > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > IGDA Education SIG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > (baylor wetzel) > 2. Different kinds of accreditation causing confusion > (Lewis Pulsipher) > 3. Re: placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri Rubin) > (Johnnemann Nordhagen) > 4. Re: game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 12 (Kevin O'Gorman) > 5. Re: Readings, Libraries & Copyright (Malcolm Ryan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:26:06 -0500 > From: baylor wetzel > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri > Rubin) > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> I wonder if there will be a backlash from that in a few >> more years (for example, imagine a school with >> 25% adjuncts that suddenly found with an economic >> upturn that half of its adjuncts left for industry again > > In our case, we went from ~18 full time/0 adjunct to 8 full time and > some > number of adjunct (6-7 i think). We were already teaching 5-6 > classes/quarter, so workloads increased and the chair always seems > to be a > few seconds away from a heart attack, but he somehow manages it (we > have a > really good chair). We've also managed it by increasing the number of > students we turn away (i think we've always turned away a fair > number, but > it got a lot stricter this year) > > We were told by our parent institution that we were out of sync with > comparable schools in the number of adjuncts (and therefore, cost). > They had > let us skate by because our program was wildly successful in > recruiting (in > ~7 years we've grown from zero students to ~650, roughly half the > school). > Now that we're ~50% adjunct, i wonder if we're at the average. i > personally > thought it was a bad idea to lay off so many people - we could have > really > hurt the school if those people hadn't come back as adjuncts. But the > administration felt the current staff would come back and they were > correct, > so from their standpoint, it was a good move > > Like most schools, we don't have a lot of game companies nearby. > Most have > had layoffs, which is where a lot of our faculty came from. One > recently > packed up and moved to North Carolina, leaving a lot of game > developers > looking for jobs and willing to work (for now) for what we pay > (~$40k-$60k+benefits for full time, i think ~$2k per class for > adjunct). We > haven't (in our area) lived through an upswing where everyone went > away for > better jobs but i know at least half our faculty has side companies > that, if > they take off, will probably leave > > We have lost several of our senior faculty, but not to game > companies. They > all went to normal businesses where they work less and get paid more > (and > have happier wives and possibly kids). i saw the same thing in the > game > industry for the same type of people at the same age (early to mid > '30s, > first kid) > > -baylor > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:37:31 -0400 > From: Lewis Pulsipher > Subject: [game_edu] Different kinds of accreditation causing confusion > To: game_edu at igda.org > Message-ID: > <790382db0909231037u5abff844ke82cce7d3775e71d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > You're talking about two very different kinds of accreditation. > Full Sail > is accredited as a trade school, not a standard college, which makes > it > plausible that they're expected to have a 70% placement rate, vastly > higher > than the typical placement rate of standard colleges. If they're > specifically teaching a trade, the students ought to succeed in it. > SCAD > and a few others with game-related programs are accredited as standard > colleges and universities. > > The standard college accreditors have become "academic Nazis" more > interested in degrees than in knowledge or experience. In one extreme > example I heard from the college president himself, SACS deemed a > person > with a Ph.D. in Zoology not qualified to teach freshman biology-- > degree not > specifically in biology! The college let him go rather than contest > this > (which doesn't say anything good about the college, does it?). > > Full Sail is called a "university" because the state of Florida > approved > that name change, it has nothing to do with accreditation. > > LP > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:06:34 -0700 > From: Johnnemann Nordhagen > Subject: Re: [game_edu] placement rates (was Introduction - Sheri > Rubin) > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Message-ID: > <558f402b0909231006x3e17edeen316698dce47363d4 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'd be curious to see the source of those statistics - are you sure > it was > LA specifically, and not California as a whole? The San Francisco > Bay Area > is also a big games center - larger than LA, I think, with LucasArts > and all > its spin-offs, Sony, Capcom, Konami, and of course EA. Seattle > might also > be up there, with MS, Nintendo, and Valve, plus a handful of others. > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM, baylor wetzel > wrote: > >>> USC has a 49% placement rate? >> >> Oh lord no. i was at their last demo days in May and from listening >> in the >> hall, it sounded like everyone had multiple offers. i watched give >> people in >> a row turn down an executive from a particularly well known MMO >> that my >> students would have killed to get into. i'd be surprised if their >> placement >> rate wasn't near 100% >> >> The last statistics i saw said 49% of all game jobs in North >> America are in >> LA. 18% are in Austin and then a handful of cities (or North >> Carolina) had >> the majority of the rest. Games jobs, like Hollywood jobs, are very >> concentrated geographically. My school, in the midwest, has a hard >> time >> getting companies to visit us (especially in Winter), which is >> perhaps why >> we've had 40-50 of our students at the last 3 GDCs. LA, on the >> other hand, >> has game companies everywhere, so it's less of an imposition for >> their staff >> to show up at a local school >> >> Location isn't the only reason USC's program places so many people >> (from >> what i can tell, it's actually a pretty good program), but it >> certainly >> helps >> >> -b >> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Dan Carreker > >wrote: >> >>> Baylor, >>> >>> I think you have some great points here. >>> >>> USC has a 49% placement rate? (making sure I understand you >>> correctly) >>> Does anyone have any other data on placement rates? I'm giving a >>> talk >>> soon on how to choose a game design school and I'm sure this >>> question will >>> come up. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dan Carreker >>> www.NarrativeDesigns.com >>> "If I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. >>> I'd type a little faster." - Asimov >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* baylor wetzel >>> *To:* amenezes at imagecampus.com.ar ; IGDA Game Education Listserv>> > >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:45 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [game_edu] Introduction - Sheri Rubin >>> >>>> In the end, we are training future customers for these >>>> companies and it would be wiser to consider us as >>>> partners, not customers, don't you thnk? >>> >>> i realize i'm going to seem like a tremendous jerk, but i'm not >>> sure that >>> it is a real partnership. Probably the top issue our school is >>> facing is >>> placement - most of our students just aren't getting jobs with game >>> companies. This situation is true for most of the game schools i >>> know of >>> (USC's GamePipe, based in LA next to 49% of all North American >>> game jobs, >>> being the big exception). i don't think my school has a lot of >>> leverage with >>> game companies and although i wish they'd give us licenses for old >>> games, >>> snippets of source code, free (or cheap) copies of Unreal 2007, >>> etc., i >>> honestly don't see any reason why they should >>> >>> It's also worth noting that publishers aren't developers and >>> developers >>> are often very, very small and frequently go out of business, so >>> setting up >>> a relationship with most is fairly difficult. Many of the people >>> they hire >>> aren't people with game degrees, they're friends and talented people >>> (probably without a degree) who send in a fantastic portfolio. >>> Maybe they >>> should hire someone different (although there's a good argument >>> that they >>> shouldn't), but they don't. So what's their incentive to take the >>> (not >>> insubstantial) time to manage relationships with game schools, >>> especially >>> given how many have popped up in the last few years (the growth in >>> the >>> number of game schools has been truly dizzying)? >>> >>> We use cheap tools (Flash, Torque, the level editor in Unreal >>> 2004) and >>> not very cheap educational versions of tools such as Photoshop and >>> 3DSMax. >>> If we want to show them "classic" games, we show them movies and >>> screenshots >>> of them (asking a student to invest 40 hours per game to find >>> those classic >>> bits like the bathroom scene in Deus Ex or the low int dialog >>> option in >>> Fallout is fairly unrealistic) or, to study concepts, we make our >>> clones. As >>> much as we wish we could get Mudbox, a motion capture system, the >>> source >>> code to Half-Life and unlimited free copies of Monkey Island, we'd >>> be happy >>> with just the game companies showing up at our career fair >>> >>> -baylor >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:48:01 -0400 > From: "Kevin O'Gorman" > Subject: Re: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 12 > To: game_edu at igda.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks, John. I knew if I kept scrolling I would find someone who > would lay > out the accreditation system and save me the trouble. : ) Funny > how the > folks accredited by SACS have such a handle on this. By the way, > there are > regional and national accreditors, and different ones for > universities and > trade schools. So you will not find one answer to fit all situations. > > Come to think of it, if someone would just launch a game development > PhD > program that is available online thye would have packed classes and we > wouldn't have the terminal degree issue anymore. > > --Kevin O'Gorman > Art Institute of Atlanta > > >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:41:30 -0400 >> From: John Sharp >> Subject: Re: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 11 >> To: game_edu at igda.org >> Message-ID: <61639BFA-9130-47B0-8104-67DA26171C5C at supercosm.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; >> DelSp="yes" >> >> Accreditation varies from institution to institution. At Savannah >> College of Art and Design, we're accredited as an institution by the >> Southeastern Association of Colleges and Schools. Within SCAD, some >> departments are further accredited by industry-specific organizations >> as required by that particular field and or law. Architecture and >> interior design, for example, both have outside accreditation, for >> example. >> >> As far as I know, there isn't an accreditation body for game design/ >> dev, though it has been a topic of conversation within the education >> SIG from time to time. >> >> John Sharp >> | supercosm LLC >> | www.supercosm.com >> | P 404 377 5440 >> | C 917 673 0374 >> >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:57:21 +1000 > From: Malcolm Ryan > Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright > To: IGDA Game Education Listserv > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > On the issue of licensing, I discovered that Steam offers a special > "CyberCafe" license [1] that gives access to "100 games". This may be > an option for universities if they want to run a games lab. I have > contacted them about educational pricing, but haven't heard anything > yet. > > As for the games I use, I structure my course around MDA and the 8 > kinds of fun [2]. My list of examples changes from year to year, but > this year I've used: > > Bartok (card game) > - A simple modifiable game to illustrate MDA > > Trogdor > - To analyse mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics > > Braid > - Discovery: For the elegantly crafted training levels > - Sensation: the atypical choices of art and music > > AudioSurf > - Drama: pacing and a dramatic arc > > The Path > - Fantasy: Creating fantasy through atmosphere and indirect > storytelling. > - Discovery: An open world with many paths to 'victory'. > > Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy > - Storytelling: Changing avatars creates dissonance as the > player's loyalties shift > - Storytelling: The opening scene puts the player in media res. > > Mafia (round-table game) > - Fellowship: Mixture of cooperation and competition. > > Zen bound > - Sensation/Ritual: Slow meditative pacing with art and music to > match. > > Everyday shooter > - Sensation: The game is as much about interactive colour + music > as it > is about challenge. > > Galatea/Aisle/Facade > - Fantasy: Storytelling with many endings. Dialogue systems. > > Fallout 3 > - Self expression: Character creation and growth. (I could do with > a shorter game to illustrate this but most RPGs tend to be long). > > Crayon Physics > - Self expression: Not just about finding a solution, but building > the 'coolest' solution. > > World of goo > - Sensation: A consistent theme and an interface that makes the > 'goo' feel almost tactile. > > Once Upon a Time (card game) > - Fanstasy/Self Expression: A 'story-making' game that facilitates > the players to tell their own story. > > [1] https://cafe.steampowered.com/ > [2] http://8kindsoffun.com/ > > On 23/09/2009, at 1:26 PM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote: > >> >> >> Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of >> why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone >> with specific course goals could select from the list. >> >>> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) >>> >>> There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make >>> one of >>> my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. >>> >>> I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game >>> literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each >>> major >>> genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then >>> you will >>> come up with a very different list than if you are looking for >>> games that >>> offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is >>> different from >>> a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique >>> visual >>> art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. >>> >>> Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it >>> might be >>> better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure >>> to a >>> few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given >>> course, and >>> make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all >>> the >>> games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game >>> Appreciation" >>> course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit >>> everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you >>> run the >>> danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't >>> relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self- >>> contained). >>> >>> - Ian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" >>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright >>> >>> >>> Malcolm, >>> >>> I would be interested in your list. >>> >>> Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have >>> a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all >>> students should have played and critically examined? >>> >>> Ted >>> >>> >>> Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. >>> Undergraduate Program Director >>> Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 >>> University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 >>> Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu >>> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ >>> >>> >>> ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much >>> others may >>> despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by >>> men >>> out >>> of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 >>> >>>> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>>>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of >>>>> games >>>>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>>>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>>>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there >>>>> doesn't >>>>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>>>> >>>>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>>>> >>>>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is >>>>> available >>>>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to >>>>> exclude >>>>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a >>>>> library >>>>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing >>>>> issues. >>>>> Does anyone know more about this? >>>>> >>>>> Malcolm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > > End of game_edu Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 > **************************************** John Sharp | supercosm LLC | www.supercosm.com | P 404 377 5440 | C 917 673 0374 From telmah at mit.edu Thu Sep 24 10:53:21 2009 From: telmah at mit.edu (Clara Fernandez) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:53:21 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright...from the librarian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28dc8aaa0909240753hf3ad4dfu7621852323ba486b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for your advice, Brenda, BTW, there's a typo in the volume/issue given in your reference. The correct reference is Kane, D., Soehner, D., & Wei W., 2007. Building a Collection of Video Games in Support of a Newly Created Degree Program at the University of California, Santa Cruz. *Science & Technology Libraries*,*Vol ** 27, Issue 4,* 77-87. Clara 2009/9/23 Brena Smith > I just now zoned in on the topic of this thread - I'm a librarian and I > subscribe to a number of library-related listservs, copyright comes up a lot > and I tend to breeze over those. Then I realized it was coming from > game_edu, so I thought I might be able to offer a little bit of advice > here. > > First, if you haven't done so already, talk to a librarian on your campus - > if there is a film librarian, talk to that person. There are a > number of copyright issues related to films and libraries and these tend to > be similar to copyright issues for games. You should also tell this person > about the Steam licensing. > > I looked at your original post and it looks like there are several issues > you are asking about (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these 3 > points). 1) You would like to make a "reading list" or "to play list" of > games available to your students? Shouldn't be any copyright issues there. > That's a list you can hand out to your students or make available on your > course website. It's no different than providing a bibliography of textual > works. > > 2) Making games available on reserve in the library. Generally speaking, I > don't think there are copyright issues, but you do have a console issue. > How long would you let them be checked out for? Are you going to provide > the consoles to the library? > > 3) You are interested in establishing a game collection within the > library. This can be a little trickier. For example, a copy of a movie on > DVD may cost $20 to a consumer. But institutional copies may be $100 - to > cover copyright/royalty costs because they assume the movie will be shown to > groups and multiple times. Same thing goes for institutional subscriptions > to journals - an individual subscription may be $100; institutional $500 > (yes, it's that much more and I'm being conservative...please go worship > your campus library for paying for all of those journals...but I digress). > In can get really expensive really fast. I'm sure I don't need to tell any > of you how bad the economy is hitting educational institutions - and > academic libraries are getting hit very hard. Most are not going to be able > to maintain current subscriptions, their collections budgets are getting > slashed...but I'm sure many of you know this. It might not be the best time > to try to build a new collection. > > That said, a few libraries have begun building game collections. The two > most notable that I know about are UC Santa Cruz and University of > Illinois, Urbana Champaign. In fact, UIUC has developed a whole portion of > their site to the collection > http://www.library.illinois.edu/gaming/index.html UCSC relied heavily on > donations from Sony, which took are of the copyright issues. They wrote an > article about building the collection if you are interested, here's the > citation: > > > Kane, D., Soehner, D., & Wei W., 2007. Building a Collection of Video > Games in Support of a Newly Created Degree Program at the University of > California, Santa Cruz. *Science & Technology Libraries*, 24, 77-87. > > I hope this info helps somewhat. Copyright is a nasty, nasty beast for > libraries and its users! Please let me know if you have any more questions. > > Best, > Brena > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Malcolm Ryan wrote: > >> On the issue of licensing, I discovered that Steam offers a special >> "CyberCafe" license [1] that gives access to "100 games". This may be an >> option for universities if they want to run a games lab. I have contacted >> them about educational pricing, but haven't heard anything yet. >> >> As for the games I use, I structure my course around MDA and the 8 kinds >> of fun [2]. My list of examples changes from year to year, but this year >> I've used: >> >> Bartok (card game) >> - A simple modifiable game to illustrate MDA >> >> Trogdor >> - To analyse mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics >> >> Braid >> - Discovery: For the elegantly crafted training levels >> - Sensation: the atypical choices of art and music >> >> AudioSurf >> - Drama: pacing and a dramatic arc >> >> The Path >> - Fantasy: Creating fantasy through atmosphere and indirect >> storytelling. >> - Discovery: An open world with many paths to 'victory'. >> >> Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy >> - Storytelling: Changing avatars creates dissonance as the player's >> loyalties shift >> - Storytelling: The opening scene puts the player in media res. >> >> Mafia (round-table game) >> - Fellowship: Mixture of cooperation and competition. >> >> Zen bound >> - Sensation/Ritual: Slow meditative pacing with art and music to match. >> >> Everyday shooter >> - Sensation: The game is as much about interactive colour + music as it >> is about challenge. >> >> Galatea/Aisle/Facade >> - Fantasy: Storytelling with many endings. Dialogue systems. >> >> Fallout 3 >> - Self expression: Character creation and growth. (I could do with a >> shorter game to illustrate this but most RPGs tend to be long). >> >> Crayon Physics >> - Self expression: Not just about finding a solution, but building the >> 'coolest' solution. >> >> World of goo >> - Sensation: A consistent theme and an interface that makes the 'goo' >> feel almost tactile. >> >> Once Upon a Time (card game) >> - Fanstasy/Self Expression: A 'story-making' game that facilitates the >> players to tell their own story. >> >> [1] https://cafe.steampowered.com/ >> [2] http://8kindsoffun.com/ >> >> On 23/09/2009, at 1:26 PM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of >>> why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone >>> with specific course goals could select from the list. >>> >>> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) >>>> >>>> There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make one >>>> of >>>> my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. >>>> >>>> I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game >>>> literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each major >>>> genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then you >>>> will >>>> come up with a very different list than if you are looking for games >>>> that >>>> offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is different >>>> from >>>> a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique >>>> visual >>>> art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. >>>> >>>> Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it might be >>>> better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure to a >>>> few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given course, >>>> and >>>> make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the >>>> games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game >>>> Appreciation" >>>> course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit >>>> everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you run >>>> the >>>> danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't >>>> relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self-contained). >>>> >>>> - Ian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" >>>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright >>>> >>>> >>>> Malcolm, >>>> >>>> I would be interested in your list. >>>> >>>> Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have >>>> a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all >>>> students should have played and critically examined? >>>> >>>> Ted >>>> >>>> >>>> Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. >>>> Undergraduate Program Director >>>> Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 >>>> University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 >>>> Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu >>>> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others >>>> may >>>> despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men >>>> out >>>> of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 >>>> >>>> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >>>>>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>>>>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>>>>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there doesn't >>>>>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >>>>>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >>>>>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >>>>>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >>>>>> Does anyone know more about this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Malcolm >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -- Clara Fern?ndez-Vara Research Associate Singapore-MIT GAMBIT Game Lab 77 Massachusetts Ave Bldng NE25 Room 379 Cambridge, MA 02139 Office: (+01) 617-324-9115 http://gambit.mit.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brena.smith at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 11:13:05 2009 From: brena.smith at gmail.com (brena.smith) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:05 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright...from the librarian In-Reply-To: <28dc8aaa0909240753hf3ad4dfu7621852323ba486b@mail.gmail.com> References: <28dc8aaa0909240753hf3ad4dfu7621852323ba486b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ackk! Bad librarian! Thanks for the catch. Brena On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Clara Fernandez wrote: > Thanks for your advice, Brenda, > > BTW, there's a typo in the volume/issue given in your reference. > > The correct reference is Kane, D., Soehner, D., & Wei W., 2007. Building > a Collection of Video Games in Support of a Newly Created Degree Program at > the University of California, Santa Cruz. *Science & Technology Libraries* > ,* Vol** 27, Issue 4,* 77-87. > Clara > > > 2009/9/23 Brena Smith > > I just now zoned in on the topic of this thread - I'm a librarian and I >> subscribe to a number of library-related listservs, copyright comes up a lot >> and I tend to breeze over those. Then I realized it was coming from >> game_edu, so I thought I might be able to offer a little bit of advice >> here. >> >> First, if you haven't done so already, talk to a librarian on your campus >> - if there is a film librarian, talk to that person. There are a >> number of copyright issues related to films and libraries and these tend to >> be similar to copyright issues for games. You should also tell this person >> about the Steam licensing. >> >> I looked at your original post and it looks like there are several issues >> you are asking about (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these 3 >> points). 1) You would like to make a "reading list" or "to play list" of >> games available to your students? Shouldn't be any copyright issues there. >> That's a list you can hand out to your students or make available on your >> course website. It's no different than providing a bibliography of textual >> works. >> >> 2) Making games available on reserve in the library. Generally speaking, >> I don't think there are copyright issues, but you do have a console issue. >> How long would you let them be checked out for? Are you going to provide >> the consoles to the library? >> >> 3) You are interested in establishing a game collection within the >> library. This can be a little trickier. For example, a copy of a movie on >> DVD may cost $20 to a consumer. But institutional copies may be $100 - to >> cover copyright/royalty costs because they assume the movie will be shown to >> groups and multiple times. Same thing goes for institutional subscriptions >> to journals - an individual subscription may be $100; institutional $500 >> (yes, it's that much more and I'm being conservative...please go worship >> your campus library for paying for all of those journals...but I digress). >> In can get really expensive really fast. I'm sure I don't need to tell any >> of you how bad the economy is hitting educational institutions - and >> academic libraries are getting hit very hard. Most are not going to be able >> to maintain current subscriptions, their collections budgets are getting >> slashed...but I'm sure many of you know this. It might not be the best time >> to try to build a new collection. >> >> That said, a few libraries have begun building game collections. The two >> most notable that I know about are UC Santa Cruz and University of >> Illinois, Urbana Champaign. In fact, UIUC has developed a whole portion of >> their site to the collection >> http://www.library.illinois.edu/gaming/index.html UCSC relied heavily on >> donations from Sony, which took are of the copyright issues. They wrote an >> article about building the collection if you are interested, here's the >> citation: >> >> >> Kane, D., Soehner, D., & Wei W., 2007. Building a Collection of Video >> Games in Support of a Newly Created Degree Program at the University of >> California, Santa Cruz. *Science & Technology Libraries*, 24, 77-87. >> >> I hope this info helps somewhat. Copyright is a nasty, nasty beast for >> libraries and its users! Please let me know if you have any more questions. >> >> Best, >> Brena >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Malcolm Ryan wrote: >> >>> On the issue of licensing, I discovered that Steam offers a special >>> "CyberCafe" license [1] that gives access to "100 games". This may be an >>> option for universities if they want to run a games lab. I have contacted >>> them about educational pricing, but haven't heard anything yet. >>> >>> As for the games I use, I structure my course around MDA and the 8 kinds >>> of fun [2]. My list of examples changes from year to year, but this year >>> I've used: >>> >>> Bartok (card game) >>> - A simple modifiable game to illustrate MDA >>> >>> Trogdor >>> - To analyse mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics >>> >>> Braid >>> - Discovery: For the elegantly crafted training levels >>> - Sensation: the atypical choices of art and music >>> >>> AudioSurf >>> - Drama: pacing and a dramatic arc >>> >>> The Path >>> - Fantasy: Creating fantasy through atmosphere and indirect >>> storytelling. >>> - Discovery: An open world with many paths to 'victory'. >>> >>> Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy >>> - Storytelling: Changing avatars creates dissonance as the player's >>> loyalties shift >>> - Storytelling: The opening scene puts the player in media res. >>> >>> Mafia (round-table game) >>> - Fellowship: Mixture of cooperation and competition. >>> >>> Zen bound >>> - Sensation/Ritual: Slow meditative pacing with art and music to match. >>> >>> Everyday shooter >>> - Sensation: The game is as much about interactive colour + music as it >>> is about challenge. >>> >>> Galatea/Aisle/Facade >>> - Fantasy: Storytelling with many endings. Dialogue systems. >>> >>> Fallout 3 >>> - Self expression: Character creation and growth. (I could do with a >>> shorter game to illustrate this but most RPGs tend to be long). >>> >>> Crayon Physics >>> - Self expression: Not just about finding a solution, but building the >>> 'coolest' solution. >>> >>> World of goo >>> - Sensation: A consistent theme and an interface that makes the 'goo' >>> feel almost tactile. >>> >>> Once Upon a Time (card game) >>> - Fanstasy/Self Expression: A 'story-making' game that facilitates the >>> players to tell their own story. >>> >>> [1] https://cafe.steampowered.com/ >>> [2] http://8kindsoffun.com/ >>> >>> On 23/09/2009, at 1:26 PM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Even if the list were 100 long it should be annotated to the point of >>>> why it makes the list - what it exemplifies. In this way, someone >>>> with specific course goals could select from the list. >>>> >>>> Haha... "standard"... good one. :-) >>>>> >>>>> There have been numerous "must-play" lists. Whenever I try to make one >>>>> of >>>>> my own, I can never seem to narrow it down below 30 or so. >>>>> >>>>> I think a lot depends on your goals. If it is just a matter of "game >>>>> literacy" -- that is, playing at least one canonical game in each major >>>>> genre, playing all the games that are well-known, and so on, then you >>>>> will >>>>> come up with a very different list than if you are looking for games >>>>> that >>>>> offered technical innovation for its time, which in turn is different >>>>> from >>>>> a list of games that were pioneering new forms of design or unique >>>>> visual >>>>> art styles or even games that were failures in notable ways. >>>>> >>>>> Rather than trying to cram all of these into a single class, it might >>>>> be >>>>> better to spread it across the entire curriculum. Provide exposure to a >>>>> few games at a time as they tie in to the content of any given course, >>>>> and >>>>> make sure the sum total of classes gives students exposure to all the >>>>> games you'd consider "must-play". Sure, you can have a "Game >>>>> Appreciation" >>>>> course that covers a lot of games, but I'm not sure you could fit >>>>> everything into 10 or 12 weeks... nor would you want to (else you run >>>>> the >>>>> danger of students thinking that all the games in that class aren't >>>>> relevant to their other coursework, since it's all too self-contained). >>>>> >>>>> - Ian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu" >>>>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:17:48 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Readings, Libraries & Copyright >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Malcolm, >>>>> >>>>> I would be interested in your list. >>>>> >>>>> Assuming that a semester is about 12 weeks or so, do we have >>>>> a "standard repertoire" of the top 10 games that all >>>>> students should have played and critically examined? >>>>> >>>>> Ted >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thaddeus F. Pawlicki, Ph.D. >>>>> Undergraduate Program Director >>>>> Computer Science Dept. (585) 275-4198 >>>>> University of Rochester FAX (585) 273-4556 >>>>> Rochester, NY 14627-0226 pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu >>>>> http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/pawlicki/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ''One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others >>>>> may >>>>> despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men >>>>> out >>>>> of touch with their instinctive selves.'' - Carl Jung 1977 >>>>> >>>>> Malcolm Ryan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> As a lecturer in game design, I want to set a 'reading list' of games >>>>>>> for my students to play. In other disciplines the University has >>>>>>> standard copyright arrangements which allow them to make sets of >>>>>>> readings available to students at little or no cost, but there >>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> seem to be any appropriate arrangement for software. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you encountered this problem? How have you addressed it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that a lot of good cutting-edge independent work is available >>>>>>> cheaply or for free online, but I don't want to be forced to exclude >>>>>>> AAA titles from examination. Ideally I would like to set up a library >>>>>>> of games but I am worried about the copyright and licensing issues. >>>>>>> Does anyone know more about this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Malcolm >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> game_edu mailing list >>>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_edu mailing list >>>> game_edu at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_edu mailing list >>> game_edu at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> > > > -- > Clara Fern?ndez-Vara > Research Associate > Singapore-MIT GAMBIT Game Lab > > 77 Massachusetts Ave > Bldng NE25 Room 379 > Cambridge, MA 02139 > Office: (+01) 617-324-9115 > > http://gambit.mit.edu > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From postmoderntechie at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 22:46:47 2009 From: postmoderntechie at gmail.com (Leo Alvarez) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:46:47 -0500 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild Message-ID: <8d0c7620909261946s7fa0ab0dkad700ca2962e847e@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, I'd like to network with other individuals who are building a game guild. My goal is to approach a series of software companies with a proposal in the next few months. The goal would be to introduce students at the high school level and take them through an internship in the gaming industry or the like. Then, introduce Maya and 3ds Max as a capstone project. I've already compiled a list of resources that I would be willing to share with others. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Briefly, students would be interested to Scratch , Alice, Game Make r, and Gamestar Mechanic. A transition to Star Logo would be made and build further to Motion Builder, Mudbox, ZBrush , Maya, and 3ds Max . This is an ambitious task. I've seen it done in other parts of the country. I'm looking for best practices and ways to introduce it to a broader community. An emphasis on Computational Thinking will be the hallmark of the guild. Jeannette M. Wing?s work in Computation Thinking is a reliable resource that will ensure the stakeholders understand their roles in the development a multi-disciplinary learning approach. Jeannette is the President?s Professor of Computer Science in and head of the Computer Science Department at Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA. I'm also very interested in the hardware required to run a solid gaming rendering lab. This should lend itself to preference in platform and tips on post-production. Please forward any links that are in harmony with the brief overview of the project above at your earliest convenience. Leo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sprice at textuality.org Sun Sep 27 00:23:55 2009 From: sprice at textuality.org (Scott Price) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:23:55 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild In-Reply-To: <8d0c7620909261946s7fa0ab0dkad700ca2962e847e@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d0c7620909261946s7fa0ab0dkad700ca2962e847e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <870697fb0909262123p57b70fc4n2582f7f1da991bed@mail.gmail.com> Hello Leo (and List)-- I'm the project manager and one of the main contacts for Gamestar Mechanic. Though it is not fully public (again) yet, we are considering a release for some educational communities prior to the next public release. Also, the Institute of Play developed a Learning Guide (for educators) and a Strategy Guide (for players) which might help you plan how best to use it in your program regardless of the release date. Feel free to contact me off-list about your project. Hopefully I can help with planning, and certainly (for Gamestar Mechanic) I can help with execution! --Scott Price sprice at textuality.org sprice at gamestarmechanic.com On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Leo Alvarez wrote: > Greetings, > > I'd like to network with other individuals who are building a game guild. > My goal is to approach a series of software companies with a proposal in the > next few months. > > The goal would be to introduce students at the high school level and take > them through an internship in the gaming industry or the like. Then, > introduce Maya and 3ds Max as a capstone project. > > I've already compiled a list of resources that I would be willing to share > with others. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Briefly, students > would be interested to Scratch , Alice, Game > Make r, and Gamestar Mechanic. > A transition to Star Logo would be > made and build further to Motion Builder, > Mudbox, ZBrush , Maya, > and 3ds Max . > > This is an ambitious task. I've seen it done in other parts of the country. > I'm looking for best practices and ways to introduce it to a broader > community. An emphasis on Computational Thinking will be the hallmark of the > guild. Jeannette M. Wing?s work in Computation Thinking is a reliable > resource that will ensure the stakeholders understand their roles in the > development a multi-disciplinary learning approach. Jeannette is the > President?s Professor of Computer Science in and head of the Computer > Science Department at Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA. > > I'm also very interested in the hardware required to run a solid gaming > rendering lab. This should lend itself to preference in platform and tips on > post-production. > > Please forward any links that are in harmony with the brief overview of the > project above at your earliest convenience. > > Leo > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goldfile at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 13:06:13 2009 From: goldfile at gmail.com (Susan Gold) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:06:13 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Global Game Jam - Bigger than Ever - We need You! Message-ID: As you may know, the 2009 GGJ was such a smashing success we have plans to make the 2010 event bigger (more locations = more games). This is an open call to all as we need locations all over this big beautiful globe to host a jam. Last year we had 54 locations in 23 countries, with 1650 joining in to make 370 games. All of the games are available for download and play. We really want to make the Global Game Jam a portal for collaboration. The dates will be January 29-31, 2010. To sign up your studio/lab/school please look over the specs below for what is needed and either sign-up on the website, http://globalgamejam.org or email us at: future at globalgamejam.org. Schools make for excellent venues, they typically have the bandwidth to facilitate such an event. It is the idea of bringing students together with professionals that makes this so exciting from the EdSIG vantage point. It is a way to bring the IGDA curriculum framework together and take all that we teach and put it into practice. Don't worry if you have never done a game jam before, we can help you through the whole process. What you will need to host a jam: Physical space to comfortably seat participants Internet access (either wired or wireless) for all participants Access to common game development tools and/or ability to download and install software Local IT support in case of problems with computers or internet connectivity At least one local official organizer to coordinate the event ** Access to all space and computing resources around the clock over the weekend of January 29-31, 2010* Coffee and Beverages & easy access to food An auditorium space to do a post Jam presentation on Sunday, January 31st Security (safeguard against theft, etc?) *We prefer your location was open for the entire 48 hours but we can accommodate those that can not, it is just less time for your site participants to make their games. ** The organizer must be a part of all email correspondence, participate on basecamp and oblige us with meeting all due dates. The GGJ will provide you with tools to organize your local event, hands on guidance before & during the Global Game Jam, a web page on the GGJ site, local & international promotion of the swag, etc? Please feel free to contact me with any questions, but also check out the website for FAQ and many more details. http://globalgamejam.org Susan -- Susan Gold In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! - J. G. Ballard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Linda.Sellheim at autodesk.com Sun Sep 27 19:15:20 2009 From: Linda.Sellheim at autodesk.com (Linda Sellheim) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:15:20 -0700 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild In-Reply-To: <870697fb0909262123p57b70fc4n2582f7f1da991bed@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d0c7620909261946s7fa0ab0dkad700ca2962e847e@mail.gmail.com> <870697fb0909262123p57b70fc4n2582f7f1da991bed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36FA17CA56D6A84D9E422A359CB4F0475DD547A3CF@ADSK-NAMSG-02.MGDADSK.autodesk.com> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=10915650 There is a curriculum for secondary school, Autodesk Animation Academy that has a game dev module this time and the MotionBuilder module from Animation Academy was created by one of the lead animators at Rockstar London, it looks at storytelling in games. On the Autodesk student community there is also a Maya for Games curriculum 2009 that is an intensive on normal mapping and asset creation for games that's free to download. You can contact me off list if you would like more information or are interested in authoring. Linda Linda Sellheim MFA| Curriculum Development Manager | Media & Entertainment Autodesk Inc. | 111 McInnis | San Rafael | CA |94903| US Mobile: 949 395 4943 From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Scott Price Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:24 PM To: IGDA Game Education Listserv Subject: Re: [game_edu] Game Guild Hello Leo (and List)-- I'm the project manager and one of the main contacts for Gamestar Mechanic. Though it is not fully public (again) yet, we are considering a release for some educational communities prior to the next public release. Also, the Institute of Play developed a Learning Guide (for educators) and a Strategy Guide (for players) which might help you plan how best to use it in your program regardless of the release date. Feel free to contact me off-list about your project. Hopefully I can help with planning, and certainly (for Gamestar Mechanic) I can help with execution! --Scott Price sprice at textuality.org sprice at gamestarmechanic.com On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Leo Alvarez > wrote: Greetings, I'd like to network with other individuals who are building a game guild. My goal is to approach a series of software companies with a proposal in the next few months. The goal would be to introduce students at the high school level and take them through an internship in the gaming industry or the like. Then, introduce Maya and 3ds Max as a capstone project. I've already compiled a list of resources that I would be willing to share with others. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Briefly, students would be interested to Scratch, Alice, Game Maker, and Gamestar Mechanic. A transition to Star Logo would be made and build further to Motion Builder, Mudbox, ZBrush, Maya, and 3ds Max. This is an ambitious task. I've seen it done in other parts of the country. I'm looking for best practices and ways to introduce it to a broader community. An emphasis on Computational Thinking will be the hallmark of the guild. Jeannette M. Wing's work in Computation Thinking is a reliable resource that will ensure the stakeholders understand their roles in the development a multi-disciplinary learning approach. Jeannette is the President's Professor of Computer Science in and head of the Computer Science Department at Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA. I'm also very interested in the hardware required to run a solid gaming rendering lab. This should lend itself to preference in platform and tips on post-production. Please forward any links that are in harmony with the brief overview of the project above at your earliest convenience. Leo _______________________________________________ game_edu mailing list game_edu at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coachpayne at aol.com Sun Sep 27 21:00:02 2009 From: coachpayne at aol.com (coachpayne at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:00:02 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild Message-ID: <8CC0DEE24AE8734-5A4-6937@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> Hello List: ???? I?m also planning a Game Development and Simulation course, and would be highly interested in a Game Guild. This course will be offered next semester, starting in late January of 1010. I currently teach Computer Programming I and AP Computer Science at an urban high school, and use Alice (for 3D animation) and Karel J Robot (for 2D animation) to present an interesting experience for the students prior to the AP course for which Java is the current language of choice.? I?m planning to include Scratch this year, and have gotten some lesson plans as well.? In the Game Development course, I?m planning to use Game Maker.? We are on a block system, and the Game Development course is still a bit flexible.? I?m always looking for ways to better prepare the course.? I?d like to think that after the first year, this might become a multi-course elective selection, perhaps culminating with Maya and 3ds Max as well.? Budgetary constraints have limited my acquisition of hardware, and this might be a limiting factor.? The machines we have now are old, but seem to do fine with Alice and Karel J Robot, but Maya might be a different story!? I?d also be happy to send anyone my current syllabi. ???? All suggestions are welcome.? I?m one of the old geezers with a high interest in game development, having been around to play the original Pong!? That being stated, I had nearly 200 people sign up to be considered as students in Computer Programming, AP Computer Science, and Game Development and Simulation, and was able to allow about a hundred in.? I?m the only teacher of these courses in the school, and also teach several levels of physics (in which I utilize VPython for simulations), but we may try to get some other teachers involved, although, as I?ve stated, money and hardware comprise the limiting factors. ??? Thanks. Charlie Payne coachpayne at aol.com Charles.Payne at dpsnc.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sjsivak at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 22:24:32 2009 From: sjsivak at gmail.com (Seth Sivak) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:24:32 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild In-Reply-To: <8CC0DEE24AE8734-5A4-6937@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC0DEE24AE8734-5A4-6937@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <73bf13440909271924x6af72de5u7b1aa86c60384f69@mail.gmail.com> Hey Everyone, The National High School Game Academy ( http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/pre-college/game.html) runs during the summer at the Entertainment Technology Center at Carnegie Mellon University. I think they have used Game Maker, Alice and Warcraft 3 in the past to teach game design. I believe the Entertainment Technology Center and CMU has partnered with some people at Disney to help revamp the open-source Panda 3D game engine (http://www.panda3d.org/). Panda 3D is a bit more advanced than Scratch or Alice so it might not be the right choice for students unless they have had some solid introduction to programming. Panda 3D does have good support for both 3DS Max and Maya. I would be happy to help out with this in anyway I can. Hope this helps Seth On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:00 PM, wrote: > Hello List: > I?m also planning a Game Development and Simulation course, and would > be highly interested in a Game Guild. This course will be offered next > semester, starting in late January of 1010. I currently teach Computer > Programming I and AP Computer Science at an urban high school, and use Alice > (for 3D animation) and Karel J Robot (for 2D animation) to present an > interesting experience for the students prior to the AP course for which > Java is the current language of choice. I?m planning to include Scratch > this year, and have gotten some lesson plans as well. In the Game > Development course, I?m planning to use Game Maker. We are on a block > system, and the Game Development course is still a bit flexible. I?m > always looking for ways to better prepare the course. I?d like to think > that after the first year, this might become a multi-course elective > selection, perhaps culminating with Maya and 3ds Max as well. Budgetary > constraints have limited my acquisition of hardware, and this might be a > limiting factor. The machines we have now are old, but seem to do fine > with Alice and Karel J Robot, but Maya might be a different story! I?d > also be happy to send anyone my current syllabi. > All suggestions are welcome. I?m one of the old geezers with a high > interest in game development, having been around to play the original Pong! > That being stated, I had nearly 200 people sign up to be considered as > students in Computer Programming, AP Computer Science, and Game Development > and Simulation, and was able to allow about a hundred in. I?m the only > teacher of these courses in the school, and also teach several levels of > physics (in which I utilize VPython for simulations), but we may try to get > some other teachers involved, although, as I?ve stated, money and hardware > comprise the limiting factors. > Thanks. > Charlie Payne > coachpayne at aol.com > Charles.Payne at dpsnc.net > > > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschell at andrew.cmu.edu Sun Sep 27 22:39:56 2009 From: jschell at andrew.cmu.edu (Jesse Schell) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:39:56 -0400 Subject: [game_edu] Game Guild In-Reply-To: <73bf13440909271924x6af72de5u7b1aa86c60384f69@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC0DEE24AE8734-5A4-6937@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> <73bf13440909271924x6af72de5u7b1aa86c60384f69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4381d4910909271939j522f5d6ax6449cc257ec2b049@mail.gmail.com> Hi all- Just to second this, Carnegie Mellon is very interested in trying to build a coalition of schools that are using Panda3D, because we believe that ultimately a widely used, high quality open source game engine will benefit us all. So, if you are using Panda3D, or thinking about it, I'd love to hear from you! On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Seth Sivak wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > The National High School Game Academy ( > http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/pre-college/game.html) runs during the > summer at the Entertainment Technology Center at Carnegie Mellon > University. I think they have used Game Maker, Alice and Warcraft 3 in the > past to teach game design. I believe the Entertainment Technology Center > and CMU has partnered with some people at Disney to help revamp the > open-source Panda 3D game engine (http://www.panda3d.org/). Panda 3D is a > bit more advanced than Scratch or Alice so it might not be the right choice > for students unless they have had some solid introduction to programming. > Panda 3D does have good support for both 3DS Max and Maya. I would be happy > to help out with this in anyway I can. > > Hope this helps > > Seth > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:00 PM, wrote: > >> Hello List: >> I?m also planning a Game Development and Simulation course, and >> would be highly interested in a Game Guild. This course will be offered next >> semester, starting in late January of 1010. I currently teach Computer >> Programming I and AP Computer Science at an urban high school, and use Alice >> (for 3D animation) and Karel J Robot (for 2D animation) to present an >> interesting experience for the students prior to the AP course for which >> Java is the current language of choice. I?m planning to include Scratch >> this year, and have gotten some lesson plans as well. In the Game >> Development course, I?m planning to use Game Maker. We are on a block >> system, and the Game Development course is still a bit flexible. I?m >> always looking for ways to better prepare the course. I?d like to think >> that after the first year, this might become a multi-course elective >> selection, perhaps culminating with Maya and 3ds Max as well. Budgetary >> constraints have limited my acquisition of hardware, and this might be a >> limiting factor. The machines we have now are old, but seem to do fine >> with Alice and Karel J Robot, but Maya might be a different story! I?d >> also be happy to send anyone my current syllabi. >> All suggestions are welcome. I?m one of the old geezers with a high >> interest in game development, having been around to play the original Pong! >> That being stated, I had nearly 200 people sign up to be considered as >> students in Computer Programming, AP Computer Science, and Game Development >> and Simulation, and was able to allow about a hundred in. I?m the only >> teacher of these courses in the school, and also teach several levels of >> physics (in which I utilize VPython for simulations), but we may try to get >> some other teachers involved, although, as I?ve stated, money and hardware >> comprise the limiting factors. >> Thanks. >> Charlie Payne >> coachpayne at aol.com >> Charles.Payne at dpsnc.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_edu mailing list >> game_edu at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu >> >> > _______________________________________________ > game_edu mailing list > game_edu at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu > > -- -Jesse Schell Asst. Prof. of Entertainment Technology, Carnegie Mellon University ( www.etc.cmu.edu) CEO, Schell Games (www.schellgames.com) Design Director, Sim Ops Studios (www.simopsstudios.com) Phone: (412) 303-0885 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From artur.lugmayr at tut.fi Mon Sep 28 13:02:30 2009 From: artur.lugmayr at tut.fi (Artur R. Lugmayr) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:02:30 +0300 Subject: [game_edu] FW: Last Call for Papers: SAME 2009 - 2nd International Workshop on Semantic Ambient Media Experience Message-ID: <01eb01ca405d$77402870$65c07950$@lugmayr@tut.fi> =========================================================================== =============== Call for Papers SAME 2009 - 2nd International Workshop on Semantic Ambient Media Experience Salzburg, 18th-21st November 2009 in conjunction with AmI-09 !!! SUBMISSION OF 2-4 PAGE POSITION PAPERS UNTIL THE 19th OCTOBER 2009 !!! More information on: http://namu.cs.tut.fi/same2009/ and http://www.ami-09.org/ ============================================================================ =============== * Submissions are expected to be 2-4 pages position papers according the paper format of AmI-09: http://www.springer.com/computer/lncs?SGWID=0-164-7-72376-0 * Please send your submissions via email to lartur at acm.org * More information on the 1st International Workshop on Semantic Ambient Media Experience held in conjunction with ACM Multimedia 2008: http://namu.cs.tut.fi/acmmm2008/same2008/index.html * Best contributions will be compiled to a special issue following up the workshop * Check also the Ambient Media Association (AMEA): www.ambientmediaassociation.org and http://webhotel2.tut.fi/emmi/forum/node/3 Description of the Workshop The medium is the message! And the message was literacy, media democracy and music charts. Mostly one single distinguishable media such as TV, the Web, the radio, or books transmitted the message. No in the age of ubiquitous and pervasive computing, where information flows through a plethora of distributed interlinked media what is the message ambient media will tell us? What means semantic in this context? Which experiences will it open to us? What is content in the age of ambient media? Ambient media are embedded throughout the natural environment of the consumer in his home, in his car, in restaurants, and on his mobile device. Predominant sample services are smart wallpapers in homes, location based services, RFID based entertainment services for children, or intelligent homes. The distribution of the medium throughout the natural environment implies a paradigm change of how to think about content. Until recently, content was identified as single entities to information a video stream, audio stream, TV broadcast. However, in the age of ambient media, the notion of content extends from the single entity thinking towards a plethora of sensor networks, smart devices, personalized services, and media embedded in the natural environment of the user. The consumer actively participates and co-designs contextual media experience One example is e.g. location based information. Initiatives as the smart Web considering location based tagging for web-pages underline this development. This multidisciplinary workshop aims to address the challenges: ? how to select, compose, and generate ambient content? ? how to present ambient content? ? how to re-use ambient content and learning experiences? ? what are the characteristics of ambient media, its content, and technology? ? how can collaborative, participatory, or social media service better supported and extended? ? and what are ambient media in terms of story-telling, interactive, and art? The workshop aims at a series, and at the creation of a think-tank of creative thinkers coming from technology, art, human-computer interaction, and social sciences, that are interested in glimpsing the future of semantic ambient intelligent empowered media technology. We are aiming at multidisciplinary, highly future oriented submissions that help to develop the "ambient media form" for entertainment services, such as: * case-studies (successful, and especially unsuccessful ones) * oral presentation of fresh and innovative ideas * artistic installations and running system prototypes * user-experience studies and evaluations * technological novelties, evaluations, and solutions Topics The following (and related) topics are within the scope of this workshop and shall act as examples: * Understanding of the semantics of ambient content and methods for adding intelligence to daily objects * Mobile and stationary sensor data collection and interpretation algorithms and techniques * Context awareness and collection and context aware composition/selection of ambient content * Creation and maintenance of meta-information including metadata and data management * Ambient and mobile social networks, user generated content, and co-creation of content and products * Characteristics of ambient media, its content, and technological platforms * Ambient content creation techniques, asset management, and programming ambient media * Algorithms and techniques for sensor data interpretation and semantic interpretation * Applications and services, including ambient games, art and leisure content in specific contexts * Ambient interactive storytelling, narrations, and interactive advertising * Personalization, user models, multimodal interaction, smart user interfaces, and universal access * Experience design, usability, audience research, ethnography, user studies, and interface design * Business models, marketing studies, media economics, and " x" -commerce The workshop aims at answering the following questions: * What is "content" and how can it be presented in the age of "ubiquitous" and "pervasive" ? * How to select, compose and generate ambient content? * How to manage and re-use ambient content in specific application scenarios (e.g. e-learning)? * What is interactivity between the single consumers and consumer groups in the ambient context? * How can collaborative or audience participatory content be supported? * Which methods for experience design, prototyping, and business models exist? * How can sensor data be interpreted and intelligently mined? * How can existing media such as TV, home entertainment, cinema extended by ambient media? Important Dates * position paper submission: 19th October, 2009 * notification of acceptance: 22nd October, 2009 * final papers due: 27th October, 2009 * workshop day : 21st November , 2009 * special issue articles due: December 14th , 2009 Target Audience The target audience are researchers and practitioners in the field of ubiquitous and pervasive computation and its related areas. These include pervasive computation, emotional computation, content creation, ubiquitous computation, human-computer-interaction and usability experts, mobile industry, service creators, etc. Workshop participants shall have previous experience in this or related fields to be able to contribute on a high scientific level. The workshop participants will actively contribute to the development of semantic ambient media, due to a different method of workshop organization. Participants shall participate rather than passively contribute. The participants shall discuss and actively elaborate the topic and we plan to kick-off an international web-based informal forum for ambient media, which shall increase the effect of this workshop tremendously. We strongly welcome multidisciplinary contributions coming from the media technology, artistic, and human experience side. Case studies (successful and especially unsuccessful), artistic installations, technologies, media studies, and user-experience evaluations are highly welcome, which are affecting the development of ambient media as new form of media. Especially visionary contributions shaping the future of ambient media are strongly welcome. Workshop Chairs * Artur Lugmayr, Tampere University of Technology (TUT) & lugYmedia Inc., FINLAND * Thomas Risse, L3S Research Center, GERMANY * Bjorn Stockleben, Rundfunk Berlin Brandenburg (RBB), GERMANY * Juha Kaario, NOKIA, FINLAND * Kari Laurila, NOKIA, FINLAND