[games_access] FORUM (was Re: GDC 2008: VERY Bad News)

Ioo ioo at ablegamers.com
Sat Dec 1 14:01:20 EST 2007


I use to own a website hosting company.

I have used my wholesale account and paid for the said domain. I will
also be more than happy to set up a full free standing forum and or
blog... I would recommend something like Drupal...

I will even give you the space on my server (it is in Dallas), all you
have to do is ask....

Now I did not mean to step on anyones toes here, but after reading this
list for some time It is clear that there are idea folks and
implementation folks... I will step up and be the second group.

Ping me if you want to help, ping me if you want to complain. Michelle,
I will reach out to you and you can use me as your lacky to get this up
and running.

Take care
Mark Barlet
Ioo - AbleGamers.com

AudioGames.net wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Just so you know: the GA forum was left unattended for some time but

> the spam was removed as far as I could see. The forum is still pretty

> popular, it's just that not that many SIG people attend it (because it

> is not an "offical SIG" forum?).

>

> As I also said in the past: the Accessibility foundation is still

> awaiting to be approached by the GA-SIG for collaborating on GA.com. I

> already explained to a couple of you that with me and Sander having

> left the foundation, most expertise left too. The foundation is

> currently focusing on other projects and does not have the resources

> to maintain this website at the moment. I already discussed a possible

> collaboration with GA-SIG with my boss - EVEN to the extend of GA-SIG

> ADOPTING GA.com and chaing it to a GA-SIG format - as if it was its

> own - with Accessibility only sponsoring the website in the form of

> hosting it. As far as I know, the foundation is still up for that.

> However, IGDA politics intervened which resulted in that IGDA GA-SIG

> still does not have a website to call their own. If GA-SIG does not

> want to collaborate with GA.com then I would still suggest to buy

> www.gasig.org and simply make a website under that for as long as IGDA

> politics keep intervening.

>

> Greets,

>

> Richard

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>

> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>

> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:20 PM

> Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008: VERY Bad News

>

>

>> Barrie,

>>

>> No. Not harsh. Just on point. (Programmers are not hired for their

>> social skills.)

>>

>> 1. Yes.

>>

>> But this SIG is unique in that it is the one active place that covers

>> multiple challenges, has an international audience, and clearly has

>> the ears of some key industry players. If this SIG has its own

>> concise, specific, answer to "what do you want us developers to do?"

>> please point me to it.

>>

>> 2. Again, this SIG has a unique position in that it can credibly

>> publish such a list, that address multiple challenges,

>> internationally, and has the ear of the major developers. Is there

>> any such recognized list of companies and games? Why not from this SIG?

>>

>> 3. Please.

>>

>> I'm on the Game Accessibility Project forum every day. It's getting

>> spammed without intervention. It's much lower volume than such a fine

>> effort warrants. Richard says he's out of there. It's adrift.

>>

>> And Mark's forum is outstanding, but does not right now have the

>> attention of the industry leaders, or actual developers, that this

>> SIG does. (No criticism, he's doing a wonderful job.) I'm on Audyssey

>> every day and it has a very active set of game developers that help

>> each other all the time. But it's limited to the blind and VI folks.

>>

>> I'd not heard of the RetroRemakes forum (thanks for the tip) but

>> according to its main page, it's most recent post was in August.

>>

>> Show me a forum where mainstream game developers meet to help each

>> other make accessibility happen.

>>

>> The three proposals stand.

>>

>> John

>>

>> At 11:47 AM 12/1/2007, you wrote:

>>> A little harsh, John perhaps?

>>>

>>> 1. Has been covered to various degrees here:

>>>

>>> http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/ARTICLES/physical-barriers.htm

>>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/hci/ua-games/game-over/

>>> http://www.helpyouplay.com/welcome.html

>>>

>>> (and other places too).

>>>

>>> 2. Is is a good point. But there's so few mainstream developers

>>> making deliberate accessibity efforts that take into account

>>> specific disabilities. Here's a list of some:

>>>

>>> http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/pioneers.htm

>>> http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/

>>>

>>> 3. Forums here:

>>>

>>> http://www.game-accessibility.com/forum/

>>> http://www.retroremakes.com/forum2/forumdisplay.php?f=84

>>> http://ablegamers.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,606/

>>>

>>> We need the support of more people though!

>>>

>>> Barrie

>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk

>>> www.igda.org/accessibility

>>>

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>

>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>

>>> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:05 PM

>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008: VERY Bad News

>>>

>>>

>>>> Reid is right.

>>>>

>>>> There are developers right now who want their work to be accessible.

>>>>

>>>> This SIG could right now facilitate that by:

>>>>

>>>> 1. Providing, distributing, and publicizing a concise, specific set

>>>> of functional criteria that define what means accessible.

>>>> 2. Compiling, publishing, and publicizing an annual list of which

>>>> companies and games meet those criteria.

>>>> 3. Maintaining a forum (The currently rather drifting Game

>>>> Accessibility Project comes to mind) where developers can go for

>>>> immediate help.

>>>>

>>>> I'm a developer of games that are accessible.

>>>> Have shipped 22 different revenue-generating products in a wide

>>>> variety of vertical markets in the last 30 years.

>>>> Am neither stupid nor lazy.

>>>> And don't see any of the 3 above items.

>>>>

>>>> None of the 3 items should take long to build as a first cut.

>>>>

>>>> And if not from this SIG, then from where?

>>>>

>>>> John Bannick

>>>> CTO

>>>> 7-128 Software

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> At 02:26 AM 12/1/2007, you wrote:

>>>>> Please, can we stop with the negative talk about GDC and the game

>>>>> industry? I work in the game industry for LucasArts. Just last week I

>>>>> talked to a highly respected programmer and he's 100% behind us and

>>>>> wants to talk about what we can do to improve accessibility in our

>>>>> games after our current milestone is finished. There are dozens of

>>>>> people at LucasArts that support game accessibility. Nintendo totally

>>>>> gets it, EA Games totally gets it with their Family Play modes in

>>>>> their sports games. Peter Molyneux gets it, Will Wright... the list

>>>>> goes on and on.

>>>>>

>>>>> It's offensive to me when people of this SIG accuse developers of not

>>>>> caring because WE DO CARE. The last thing you want to do is insult

>>>>> the

>>>>> people you have to work with. It's the quickest way to turn them away

>>>>> from our cause.

>>>>>

>>>>> So, instead of complaining, lets do something about it! First,

>>>>> everyone here needs to understand what it's like for developers and

>>>>> why it's so hard for them to adopt accessibility features.

>>>>>

>>>>> 1. Limited financial resources - Games are very expensive to make and

>>>>> any new features adds to the cost. Before you can add accessibility

>>>>> features you must have a game and that's where most of the money is

>>>>> spent first.

>>>>>

>>>>> 2. Limited time - Game development is incredibly complex and hard to

>>>>> tame. No matter how much extra time gets budgeted into the production

>>>>> schedule, it always runs out well before all tasks are complete. When

>>>>> this happens, features get cut in order to save the core of the game

>>>>> and again, without a game, there can't be any accessibility features.

>>>>> Because this usually happens so late, there isn't enough time to work

>>>>> on accessibility features before the game has to ship.

>>>>>

>>>>> 3. Limited information - Even if a developer was pro-active and

>>>>> scheduled the development of accessibility features into the games'

>>>>> development schedule, there's still a major lack of knowledge and

>>>>> tools that enable them to do their job. The SIG has been thinking

>>>>> about accessibility features for years and we have all the solutions,

>>>>> but developers don't yet. We need to make ourselves known and readily

>>>>> available to help them.

>>>>>

>>>>> What can we do to solve these issues? We need to develop our

>>>>> relationships with developers and offer our assistance. Our attempts

>>>>> to work with GarageGames is a good start. When a new game is

>>>>> announced

>>>>> we should contact them and offer our expertise.

>>>>>

>>>>> We have GOT to get a website up so that we can communicate our

>>>>> abilities and expertise to our target audiences (game developers).

>>>>>

>>>>> But there are technical issues and many of us are volunteers and so

>>>>> things move very slowly.

>>>>>

>>>>> Several of us are writing guidelines for implementing certain

>>>>> features

>>>>> but again, this is a slow process. Others are doing research.

>>>>> Going to

>>>>> conferences is awesome. Writing articles to Gamasutra is great as

>>>>> well.

>>>>>

>>>>> Eitan is right, we have to "sell" our expertise. It's not that

>>>>> developers don't care, they don't know that they SHOULD care.

>>>>>

>>>>> -Reid

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> --

>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.11/1161 - Release Date:

>>>>> 11/30/2007 12:12 PM

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> games_access mailing list

>>> games_access at igda.org

>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>

>>>

>>> --

>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:

>>> 269.16.12/1163 - Release Date: 12/1/2007 12:05 PM

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> games_access mailing list

>> games_access at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>

> _______________________________________________

> games_access mailing list

> games_access at igda.org

> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>



More information about the games_access mailing list