[games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
AudioGames.net
richard at audiogames.net
Mon Dec 17 11:18:38 EST 2007
Hi Reid,
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for putting ALL ideas on the table and
looking at their possibilities, including whatever ideas that may seem weird
of stupid at first. But we're allowed to discuss those possibilities, aren't
we? It is just my opinion that I think that an eyebrow-controller can be
quite tiring and maybe not as accurate as some of the other ideas ;) That is
all. What's wrong with that?!
Greets,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
> This is what everyone said about the Wii before it came out. "My arms
> are going to be so tired." A year later, it's still selling like crazy
> and very hard to find in stores.
> (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16640) Disabled
> players have so few options these days and we aren't the customer,
> they are. Richard, you may get tired, but maybe not other people?
>
> At this point, we should put all ideas on the table and see which ones
> float to the top after brainstorming.
>
> -Reid
>
> On Dec 17, 2007 1:52 AM, AudioGames.net <richard at audiogames.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Interesting suggestion, Thomas. I think what needs to be taken into
>> account
>> is that timing and control are very important factors for musical
>> expressing
>> through a rythm intrument. I think it is very, very hard to do a good
>> beat
>> with your eyebrows. I'm pretty good at timing, but I simply can't
>> raise/lower my eyebrows fast enough. I just tried "We Will Rock You" and
>> next to a headache*, I though it was very tiring and was glad the song
>> was
>> over ;) I can't imagine me doing this a whole session with multiple
>> songs. I
>> think the same might go for using cameras and head-bob-recognition. It
>> all
>> depends on how you set it up of course, and how much 'bob' will cause a
>> trigger. But I foresee that if it's a 'big bob'**, players will easily
>> get
>> tired*** which is not something I think you want to cause with a game.
>>
>> Greets,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> * which could be related to last night's party but still ;)
>> ** oh boy
>> *** and nausious* ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at pininteractive.com>
>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>>
>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
>>
>>
>> > how about using a Cyberlink to control the pedal input; simply mapping
>> > it
>> > to raising eyebrows for instance
>> >
>> > /Thomas
>> >
>> > 16 dec 2007 kl. 09.31 skrev <hinn at uiuc.edu> <hinn at uiuc.edu>:
>> >
>> >> Hey --
>> >>
>> >> The main issue is that they cannot use the foot pedal but they can
>> >> use
>> >> the drum pad (the other four inputs) using the drum sticks -- they
>> >> are
>> >> paraplegic and not quadriplegic...although Harmonix would like to
>> >> know
>> >> solution ideas for quadriplegic gamers as well!
>> >>
>> >> I have asked to see if we could get into the source code if we sign
>> >> away
>> >> our lives -- worst case he just says "no way." And that's cool. I can
>> >> understand keeping the code close to the vest. Doesn't hurt to
>> >> propose
>> >> it though.
>> >>
>> >> At the party I was at last night, it took 2-3 people without mobility
>> >> disabilities to play the drum on "easy" mode. So add in any mobility
>> >> disability and it's even tougher!
>> >>
>> >> Another thing to think about is solo practice -- you can go through
>> >> the
>> >> game just playing the drum with AI players. So there is a loss of
>> >> independence for paraplegic gamers who would have to get a friend to
>> >> "drum" with them. So they get used to each other's cues and
>> >> styles...what happens at a party when the friend might not be there
>> >> and
>> >> a "substitute" second person is needed. It's not absolutely critical
>> >> but
>> >> it can get annoying to get used to someone else who is essentially a
>> >> part of your "skills" package -- after all, a lot of (most?) people
>> >> practice on their own so that they can keep up with and/or beat the
>> >> crap
>> >> out of their fellow game players. Yeah...rockband IS about
>> >> collaboration...but...when the scores came up, there was always
>> >> clearly
>> >> "the winner." :)
>> >>
>> >> Did I mention that I think this discussion is really cool? ;)
>> >>
>> >> Michelle
>> >>
>> >> ---- Original message ----
>> >>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:10:01 -0800
>> >>> From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
>> >>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>> >>> <games_access at igda.org
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey,
>> >>>
>> >>> Interesting problem, maybe a viable strategy would be to find the
>> >>> gross or lowest denominator of the amount of interaction that a
>> >>> paraplegic could provide; e.g. if this is a one switch you obviously
>> >>> have a hard time providing five different inputs. Some amount of
>> >>> interaction has to go or be automated.
>> >>>
>> >>> I assume we will not be able to modify the existing source code and
>> >>> hence a solution must be found in the hardware. If you want to
>> >>> automate particular drum beats there is no way to get this
>> >>> information
>> >>> through a controller unless you would be using a videocamera that
>> >>> would monitor the screen to see which buttons need to be pressed.
>> >>>
>> >>> I propose a simple solution:
>> >>>
>> >>> just splitting up the drums (physically) into a part (1-5) drums that
>> >>> can be played by a paraplegic and the other part (1-5) shall be
>> >>> played
>> >>> by another human. You need 4 people anyway so finding a 5th should
>> >>> not
>> >>> be a problem. If the paraplegic is unable to drum but can only use
>> >>> sip
>> >>> and puff i would suggest splitting up the controller for the drums in
>> >>> a sipp and puff part and the remaining drum parts.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers Eelke
>> >>>
>> >>> On 15/12/2007, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hey Mike --
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The automation of inputs sounds like an excellent idea. I think
>> >>>> you'd
>> >>>> want it generic and per-input though and be clear that it's not
>> >>>> *just*
>> >>>> the foot pedal that could be problematic. e.g. Def Leopard's Rick
>> >>>> Allen could easily handle the bass pedal (and a few more), but one
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the pads might be a pain to hit simultaneously with another one.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yep, I was thinking about Rick Allen -- I'll have to do some
>> >>>> surfing
>> >>>> to give
>> >>>> them some links on how drummers with mobility disabilities and
>> >>>> amputees
>> >>>> trick out their drum kits for their own personal situation. That
>> >>>> might
>> >>>> give
>> >>>> Rock Band another source for information (actually...I'm wondering
>> >>>> if
>> >>>> we
>> >>>> could get Rick Allen in on the accessible drum kit? I know that the
>> >>>> Harmonix
>> >>>> guys know some of the band contacts. I'm serious! How cool would
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> be to
>> >>>> be able to buy a special edition Rick Allen controller that could be
>> >>>> reconfigured to work with switches and so forth? For info on his
>> >>>> custom kit:
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Allen_%28drummer%29
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've only played the original GH briefly - do these games identify
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> different players at the start of the game? Tying such settings to
>> >>>> individual users/names would be nice, so that if you're taking turns
>> >>>> it'd automatically reconfigure itself for each person once those
>> >>>> configurations are set and keep the accounts/configurations around
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> options for future gaming sessions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yes, you pick your own player and name them (and then you can
>> >>>> outfit
>> >>>> them
>> >>>> with cooler clothes and instruments when you earn cash from gigs)
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> saves your progress and such. So I would think saving accessibility
>> >>>> configurations would be pretty easy.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As far as hardware - if they provided a way to use a generic
>> >>>> controller instead of the custom ones (e.g. use a standard gamepad
>> >>>> instead of the guitar for instance, where the whammy bar became the
>> >>>> joystick), and in software allowed for remapping of the generic
>> >>>> controller's inputs and to the expected inputs of the custom
>> >>>> controller, then that should allow people to use things like the
>> >>>> QuadControl.com's controller to play, wouldn't it? Anything
>> >>>> excessively hard to do with such a controller could be switched to
>> >>>> "automatic mode" in the software? Making these configurations also
>> >>>> per-user as above would be nice as well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hmm...yeah there is no way to play without a USB
>> >>>> controller...but...I'm
>> >>>> wondering if one of Barrie's USB controllers might be "tricked" to
>> >>>> work with
>> >>>> Rock Band -- I mean they already need a hub to fit four instruments
>> >>>> so
>> >>>> one
>> >>>> of those could be an accessible controller...and then someone with
>> >>>> different
>> >>>> mobility issues might be able to play with a hacked controller
>> >>>> connected to
>> >>>> five switches (four for the drum pad and one for the pedal. I'll
>> >>>> also
>> >>>> introduce them to the Quad Controller for the 360 -- they may have
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> "cheat"
>> >>>> or something that would allow someone to override an instrument
>> >>>> (stranger
>> >>>> things have been put in games).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Now this discussion is kind of cool and super fun -- maybe we
>> >>>> should
>> >>>> start
>> >>>> brainstorming on a game every other week where we know we have a
>> >>>> friendly
>> >>>> person in a high powered position who could make things happen. We
>> >>>> could
>> >>>> advert it on forums and our blogs for more suggestions. Mark and
>> >>>> Barrie
>> >>>> could help us on the blog end of things and I can contact some
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> groups.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We could then present them with mini-usability reports and if they
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> interested in more info/help then they can help support the GA-SIG
>> >>>> foundation (our soon-to-be-made-real non-profit) where we could
>> >>>> earmark for
>> >>>> travel scholarships for SIG members to conferences like the GDC
>> >>>> where
>> >>>> they
>> >>>> are speakers, etc. It's a bird...It's a plane...no...It's "SIG
>> >>>> PROJECT
>> >>>> PRACTICAL!!!!!"
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm trying to set up a meeting with Alex and the Harmonix gang at
>> >>>> GDC
>> >>>> so we
>> >>>> can show them the controllers, Eelke's haptic solution for the
>> >>>> blind,
>> >>>> how
>> >>>> they are used, and discuss things further. Who doesn't want to ROCK
>> >>>> after
>> >>>> all? Beethoven was deaf -- and yet it was a rockstar back in his
>> >>>> day.
>> >>>> ;)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let me see if I can get a couple kits if we sign our lives away and
>> >>>> promise
>> >>>> not to resell them on ebay.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Trust me on this one -- we have already benefited from the private
>> >>>> generosity of Harmonix employees who dig our work. I can't say much
>> >>>> more but
>> >>>> trust me -- I know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Michelle
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> games_access mailing list
>> >>>> games_access at igda.org
>> >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>> >>> Department of CS&E/171
>> >>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>> >>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com
>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> games_access mailing list
>> >>> games_access at igda.org
>> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> .......................................
>> >> these are mediocre times and people are
>> >> losing hope. it's hard for many people
>> >> to believe that there are extraordinary
>> >> things inside themselves, as well as
>> >> others. i hope you can keep an open
>> >> mind.
>> >> -- "unbreakable"
>> >> .......................................
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
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