From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Thu Jan 4 17:04:57 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:04:57 -0000 Subject: [games_access] Fw: Physical Barriers in Video Games article Message-ID: <01c001c7304c$5f8778b0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Dave Hersher has published the OneSwitch "Physical Barriers in Video Games" article at the UEA-Life web-site: "Committed to bringing information and inspiration, along with life experiences to upper extremity amputees, their family and friends." www.uea-life.com http://www.uea-life.com/JanFebMar07.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hersher To: 'Barrie Ellis' Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Physical Barriers in Video Games article Hi Barrie, Just wanted to let you know that the new issue is published. I decided to run your paper over two issues (due to length) so the first part (concerning controllers) is in the current issue and the remainder will be published in the April issue. I also added a link to your site on . You can check out the ezine . Feel free to pass this link along if you know someone who may benefit from the ezine. Thanks again for allowing me to use the paper. Dave From richard at audiogames.net Thu Jan 4 18:21:13 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:21:13 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Fw: Physical Barriers in Video Games article References: <01c001c7304c$5f8778b0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Message-ID: <001801c73057$0709a8b0$6402a8c0@Delletje> That's wonderful! (yeah folks, I'm still alive - happy new year! I WILL reply everyone who sent me their wishes!) Richard http://www.audiogames.net http://www.game-accessibility.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Ellis" To: "IGDA GA mailing list" Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: [games_access] Fw: Physical Barriers in Video Games article > Dave Hersher has published the OneSwitch "Physical Barriers in Video > Games" > article at the UEA-Life web-site: "Committed to bringing information and > inspiration, along with life experiences to upper extremity amputees, > their > family and friends." > > www.uea-life.com > http://www.uea-life.com/JanFebMar07.pdf > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Hersher > To: 'Barrie Ellis' > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:54 PM > Subject: Re: Physical Barriers in Video Games article > > > Hi Barrie, > Just wanted to let you know that the new issue is published. I decided to > run your paper over two issues (due to length) so the first part > (concerning > controllers) is in the current issue and the remainder will be published > in > the April issue. > I also added a link to your site on . > You can check out the ezine . Feel free to pass this link along if you > know > someone who may benefit from the ezine. > Thanks again for allowing me to use the paper. > Dave > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 4 22:40:21 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:40:21 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fw: Physical Barriers in Video Games article In-Reply-To: <01c001c7304c$5f8778b0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> References: <01c001c7304c$5f8778b0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Message-ID: GREAT!!! :) Michelle >Dave Hersher has published the OneSwitch "Physical Barriers in Video Games" >article at the UEA-Life web-site: "Committed to bringing information and >inspiration, along with life experiences to upper extremity amputees, their >family and friends." > >www.uea-life.com >http://www.uea-life.com/JanFebMar07.pdf > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dave Hersher >To: 'Barrie Ellis' >Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:54 PM >Subject: Re: Physical Barriers in Video Games article > > >Hi Barrie, >Just wanted to let you know that the new issue is published. I decided to >run your paper over two issues (due to length) so the first part (concerning >controllers) is in the current issue and the remainder will be published in >the April issue. >I also added a link to your site on . >You can check out the ezine . Feel free to pass this link along if you know >someone who may benefit from the ezine. >Thanks again for allowing me to use the paper. >Dave > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From lynnvm at carolina.rr.com Sun Jan 7 08:52:15 2007 From: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com (lynnvm at carolina.rr.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 08:52:15 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AI techniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii Message-ID: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Happy New Year! Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy with work, school, and travel. (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP and autism.) AI I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information about accessibility. If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of game development. Wii I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that is responsible for accessibility? I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the controllers can be modified. Lynn Marentette TechPsych Interactive Multimedia Technology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reid at rbkdesign.com Sun Jan 7 13:21:31 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:21:31 -0800 Subject: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AI techniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii In-Reply-To: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Jan 7 14:28:42 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:28:42 -0000 Subject: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <008001c73292$0adc6b20$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Yet to get one, so can't really comment. Seems that there are more and more non-one handed games coming out that require the Nunchuk extra controller - that concerns me from an accessibility stand point. Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: ; "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including > CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in > educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire > some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect > of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many > possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone > that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to > control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to > find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Sun Jan 7 15:11:11 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:11:11 -0500 Subject: [games_access] [SPAM]Re: Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyk3iEA Message-ID: <000c01c73297$fbee7df0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> You're definitely right Reid but don't have a ton of money right now for the new systems at all I wish I did what I've been thinking about the controller devotion that it offers is something that is possible except I think about all the delicate hand movements that are required and it's disappointing. It has potential but the game is to be developed for someone with limited function in mine otherwise I could strap it to my wheelchair on my arm possibly trying to mimic what it was designed for the right hand movement just so frustrating. Soon as I get one I will be sure to say what it should be doing. I would actually propose our group start working with the new Windows game developing software for free something called XNA I believe. And which our group would start developing something. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com a -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Reid Kimball Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:22 PM To: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [SPAM]Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Sun Jan 7 16:56:55 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:56:55 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <001d01c732a6$bf8087a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for the next four years or so... Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: ; "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including > CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in > educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire > some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect > of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many > possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone > that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to > control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to > find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Sun Jan 7 17:00:26 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:00:26 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Gametrak Fusion (was:... er.. something else) References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> <001d01c732a6$bf8087a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <003101c732a7$3cc3f170$6402a8c0@Delletje> By the way: these guys are British, so Barrie, couldn't you pay them a visit and ask them to create some accessible controllers for their Gametrak? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use ofAItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for the next four years or so... Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: ; "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including > CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in > educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire > some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect > of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many > possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone > that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to > control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to > find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Jan 7 19:57:05 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:57:05 -0600 Subject: [games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! Michelle >As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion >about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone >of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a >quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe >making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help >make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. > >I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation >right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A >therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small >movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the >sensitivity to require more extreme motions. > >-Reid > >On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Happy New Year! >> >> >> >> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy >> with work, school, and travel. >> >> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in >> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking >> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game >> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with >> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special >> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP >> and autism.) >> >> >> >> AI >> >> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for >> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my >> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for >> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing >> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational >> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information >> about accessibility. >> >> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some >> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of >> game development. >> >> >> >> Wii >> >> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! >> >> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure >> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing >> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities >> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that >> is responsible for accessibility? >> >> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control >> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) >> >> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find >> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the >> controllers can be modified. > > >> >> >> >> >> Lynn Marentette >> >> >> >> TechPsych >> >> Interactive Multimedia Technology >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Jan 8 05:56:57 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:56:57 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use ofAItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games, question/comment about Wii References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> <001d01c732a6$bf8087a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <001601c73313$b790bde0$6402a8c0@Delletje> And another btw: just found this Wii expansion pack, almost similar to Fusion: http://videogame.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00425 ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use ofAItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for the next four years or so... Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: ; "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including > CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in > educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire > some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect > of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many > possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone > that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to > control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to > find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Mon Jan 8 11:36:56 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:36:56 -0500 Subject: [games_access] [SPAM] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyE4iEA Message-ID: <000001c73343$37aae300$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Noon will work for me but only until 12:30 p.m. Eastern time could that we meet possibly 11:30 a.m.? I will keep my instant messaging open in case I forget please invite me. Thanks. I still have not gotten the Xbox 360 version of my mouth controller just don't have any money right now. Shall I was actually thinking in the next year or so if we could head an actual project -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:57 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [SPAM][games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! Michelle >As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion >about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone >of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a >quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe >making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help >make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. > >I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation >right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A >therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small >movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the >sensitivity to require more extreme motions. > >-Reid > >On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Happy New Year! >> >> >> >> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy >> with work, school, and travel. >> >> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in >> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking >> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game >> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with >> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special >> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP >> and autism.) >> >> >> >> AI >> >> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for >> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my >> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for >> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing >> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational >> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information >> about accessibility. >> >> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some >> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of >> game development. >> >> >> >> Wii >> >> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! >> >> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure >> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing >> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities >> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that >> is responsible for accessibility? >> >> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control >> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) >> >> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find >> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the >> controllers can be modified. > > >> >> >> >> >> Lynn Marentette >> >> >> >> TechPsych >> >> Interactive Multimedia Technology >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Jan 8 13:15:43 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:15:43 -0000 Subject: [games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <023401c73351$031a6ee0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Hello, is it me you're looking for? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html Wednesday January 10th, 12pm New York time with conversions: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=10&month=1&year=2007&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p1=179 ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:57 AM Subject: [games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? > This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big > disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come > with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you > buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow > you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might > be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this > yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's > spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. > > So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for > final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get > together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC > people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! > > On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New > York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie > always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting > to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is > all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! > > Michelle > >>As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion >>about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone >>of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a >>quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe >>making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help >>make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. >> >>I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation >>right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A >>therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small >>movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the >>sensitivity to require more extreme motions. >> >>-Reid >> >>On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Happy New Year! >>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very >>> busy >>> with work, school, and travel. >>> >>> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in >>> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking >>> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game >>> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with >>> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special >>> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, >>> including CP >>> and autism.) >>> >>> >>> >>> AI >>> >>> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for >>> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over >>> my >>> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential >>> for >>> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is >>> doing >>> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in >>> educational >>> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much >>> information >>> about accessibility. >>> >>> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire >>> some >>> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this >>> aspect of >>> game development. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wii >>> >>> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love >>> it! >>> >>> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not >>> sure >>> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After >>> playing >>> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many >>> possibilities >>> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone >>> that >>> is responsible for accessibility? >>> >>> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to >>> control >>> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) >>> >>> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to >>> find >>> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how >>> the >>> controllers can be modified. >> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lynn Marentette >>> >>> >>> >>> TechPsych >>> >>> Interactive Multimedia Technology >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From reid at rbkdesign.com Mon Jan 8 15:46:50 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:46:50 -0800 Subject: [games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: I don't know if I'll make it. I'm extremely swamped with work. Do let me know comes out of the meeting though, thanks. -Reid On 1/7/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big > disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come > with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you > buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow > you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might > be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this > yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's > spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. > > So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for > final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get > together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC > people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! > > On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New > York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie > always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting > to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is > all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! > > Michelle > > >As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion > >about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone > >of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a > >quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe > >making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help > >make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. > > > >I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation > >right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A > >therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small > >movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the > >sensitivity to require more extreme motions. > > > >-Reid > > > >On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Happy New Year! > >> > >> > >> > >> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > >> with work, school, and travel. > >> > >> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > >> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > >> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > >> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > >> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > >> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including CP > >> and autism.) > >> > >> > >> > >> AI > >> > >> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for > >> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > >> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > >> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > >> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in educational > >> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > >> about accessibility. > >> > >> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire some > >> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect of > >> game development. > >> > >> > >> > >> Wii > >> > >> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > >> > >> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > >> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > >> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many possibilities > >> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone that > >> is responsible for accessibility? > >> > >> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to control > >> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > >> > >> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to find > >> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > >> controllers can be modified. > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Lynn Marentette > >> > >> > >> > >> TechPsych > >> > >> Interactive Multimedia Technology > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Jan 8 17:49:30 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:49:30 -0000 Subject: [games_access] Gametrak Fusion (was:... er.. something else) References: <000001c73263$0adcebb0$6601a8c0@HOME><001d01c732a6$bf8087a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003101c732a7$3cc3f170$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <02ab01c73377$428dc2e0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> I've e-mailed Elliot Myers regarding promoting accessibility options to game developers using his products. I'll let you know if he replies. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: [games_access] Gametrak Fusion (was:... er.. something else) By the way: these guys are British, so Barrie, couldn't you pay them a visit and ask them to create some accessible controllers for their Gametrak? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use ofAItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for the next four years or so... Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: ; "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AItechniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the sensitivity to require more extreme motions. -Reid On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: > > > > > Happy New Year! > > > > Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very busy > with work, school, and travel. > > (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in > Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game > classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with > students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special > program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including > CP > and autism.) > > > > AI > > I recently finished a class last semester ?"Artificial Intelligence for > Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over my > head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential for > facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing > work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in > educational > games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information > about accessibility. > > If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire > some > of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect > of > game development. > > > > Wii > > I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! > > Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not sure > if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After playing > with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many > possibilities > for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone > that > is responsible for accessibility? > > I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to > control > his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) > > That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to > find > out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how the > controllers can be modified. > > > > > > Lynn Marentette > > > > TechPsych > > Interactive Multimedia Technology > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Jan 8 17:54:49 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:54:49 +0100 Subject: [games_access] [SPAM] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? In-Reply-To: <000001c73343$37aae300$6601a8c0@Inspiron> References: <000001c73343$37aae300$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: Hi, I'll do my best to attend; it's 18.00 local time Sweden and my wife works late so I have to take care of the kids. On top of that my son broke my wifi router recently and having a cord across the floor to the laptop is not a good idea with kids around... I have a IM client on my cell phone, I'll try to be online on that one. G?ran is in northern Norway on some remote island so I'm not sure about his internet connection, but I'll tell him about the meeting and hope he can get there in case my options runs out for getting online. /Thomas IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List writes: >Noon will work for me but only until 12:30 p.m. Eastern time could that we >meet possibly 11:30 a.m.? I will keep my instant messaging open in case I >forget please invite me. Thanks. > >I still have not gotten the Xbox 360 version of my mouth controller just >don't have any money right now. Shall I was actually thinking in the next >year or so if we could head an actual project > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:57 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [SPAM][games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? > >This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big >disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come >with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you >buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow >you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might >be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this >yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's >spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. > >So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for >final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get >together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC >people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! > >On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New >York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie >always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting >to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is >all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! > >Michelle > >>As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion >>about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone >>of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a >>quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe >>making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help >>make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. >> >>I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation >>right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A >>therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small >>movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the >>sensitivity to require more extreme motions. >> >>-Reid >> >>On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Happy New Year! >>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very >busy >>> with work, school, and travel. >>> >>> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in >>> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking >>> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game >>> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with >>> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special >>> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including >CP >>> and autism.) >>> >>> >>> >>> AI >>> >>> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for >>> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over >my >>> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential >for >>> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing >>> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in >educational >>> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information >>> about accessibility. >>> >>> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire >some >>> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect >of >>> game development. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wii >>> >>> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! >>> >>> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not >sure >>> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After >playing >>> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many >possibilities >>> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone >that >>> is responsible for accessibility? >>> >>> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to >control >>> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) >>> >>> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to >find >>> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how >the >>> controllers can be modified. >> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lynn Marentette >>> >>> >>> >>> TechPsych >>> >>> Interactive Multimedia Technology >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) ____________________________________________________ Award Winning 3D Game for Blind and Sighted: www.terraformers.nu IGDA Game Accessibility SIG www.igda.org/accessibility/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Jan 8 18:02:32 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:02:32 -0600 Subject: [games_access] [SPAM] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c73343$37aae300$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: Actually, after reading the replies...I think that we'd be better served by a non-synchronous meeting right now so if you are on the GDC list, you should be getting another email from me shortly. So let's NOT meet on MSN and instead work things out on the GDC list since it sounds like everyone's schedule's are too insane to meet online at the same time and I don't want to put some things off any longer! :) Michelle >Hi, > >I'll do my best to attend; it's 18.00 local time >Sweden and my wife works late so I have to take >care of the kids. On top of that my son broke my >wifi router recently and having a cord across >the floor to the laptop is not a good idea with >kids around... I have a IM client on my cell >phone, I'll try to be online on that one. > >G?ran is in northern Norway on some remote >island so I'm not sure about his internet >connection, but I'll tell him about the meeting >and hope he can get there in case my options >runs out for getting online. > >/Thomas > >IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List writes: >Noon will work for me but only until 12:30 p.m. Eastern time could that we >meet possibly 11:30 a.m.? I will keep my instant messaging open in case I >forget please invite me. Thanks. > >I still have not gotten the Xbox 360 version of my mouth controller just >don't have any money right now. Shall I was actually thinking in the next >year or so if we could head an actual project > >-----Original Message----- >From: >games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:57 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [SPAM][games_access] The Wii and Next SIG Meeting? > >This is true -- while it could be amazing for some it's also a big >disaster for others. I do have a Wii now actually and it does come >with "classic controllers" -- actually it doesn't come with it...you >buy those extra. I'm waiting for mine to arrive to see how they allow >you to play the Wii games. With an accessible controller...it might >be able to work with systems like Robert uses. But I don't know this >yet and I have been so busy with the GDC stuff that my head's >spinning so I haven't yet looked that up. > >So that the list's been so quiet lately gang -- the deadline for >final info for the GDC program is the 15th and I'm trying to get >together everything possible. So if you are one of my GDC >people...you'll probably be getting a few emails from me shortly!! > >On that note...how is this Wednesday (Jan 10) at around noon New >York Time (sorry...don't have that clock thing handy that Barrie >always has to remind me about...Barrie? remind me? ;) for a meeting >to talk about GDC issues and start making the plan for how this is >all going to work. We've got FIVE sessions...woooooooo!!!! > >Michelle > >>As far as this list is concerned there hasn't been much discussion >>about how the Wii can be made more accessible. I don't know if anyone >>of us has a Wii and has spent a lot of time with it. Robert, who is a >>quadriplegic unfortunately can't use the Wii. However, I think maybe >>making a head worn Wii compatible motion sensing device could help >>make the Wii more accessible to people such as Robert. >> >>I agree that it probably has better applications in rehabilitation >>right now. Apparently, it can take both small and large movements. A >>therapist can change the sensitivity at first to accept small >>movements and as the player improves, the therapist changes the >>sensitivity to require more extreme motions. >> >>-Reid >> >>On 1/7/07, lynnvm at carolina.rr.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Happy New Year! >>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry for not interacting much on this listserv lately. I was very >busy >>> with work, school, and travel. >>> >>> (For those of you who don't know me, I'm Lynn Marentette. I live in >>> Charlotte, N.C. I'm a female school psychologist who has been taking > >> computer classes for the past few years part-time, including some game >>> classes, programming, VR, and educational technology. I've worked with >>> students with a range of disabilities. Currently I work in a special >>> program for students who have multiple or severe disabilities, including >CP >>> and autism.) >>> >>> >>> >>> AI >>> >>> I recently finished a class last semester -"Artificial Intelligence for >>> Interactive Game Development". Although the class was often a bit over >my >>> head, I learned so much! I believe that AI techniques have potential >for >>> facilitating accessibility in games. I'd like to know if anyone is doing >>> work or research in this area. I know AI techniques are used in >educational >>> games to adapt to learner progress, but I couldn't find much information >>> about accessibility. >>> >>> If I won the lottery, the first thing that I would do would be to hire >some >>> of the computer programming whizzes from my class to work on this aspect >of >>> game development. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wii >>> >>> I bought a Wii with my 23 year-old daughter for Christmas and I love it! >>> >>> Since I haven't read many of the Games Access posts lately, I am not >sure >>> if there was a discussion about the Wii and accessibility. After >playing >>> with the Wii for a while, I started to think that it has many >possibilities >>> for accessibility as well as rehabilitation. Does Nintendo have anyone >that >>> is responsible for accessibility? >>> >>> I did read about the guy who programmed his Wii remote controller to >control >>> his Roomba vacuum cleaner. (I think there is a video clip on YouTube) >>> >>> That got me thinking about some possibilities. At any rate, I'd like to >find >>> out more about what is going on with the Wii and accessibility and how >the >>> controllers can be modified. >> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Lynn Marentette >>> >>> >>> >>> TechPsych >>> >>> Interactive Multimedia Technology >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > >Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com >Skype ID: thomaswestin >Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) >____________________________________________________ >Award Winning 3D Game for Blind and Sighted: >www.terraformers.nu >IGDA Game Accessibility SIG >www.igda.org/accessibility/ > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynnvm at carolina.rr.com Mon Jan 8 18:37:08 2007 From: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com (lynnvm at carolina.rr.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:37:08 -0500 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c7337d$ea7938d0$6601a8c0@HOME> Richard (and all) Fusion looks interesting. Thanks! Lynn Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use of AI techniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment about Wii And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for the next four years or so... Greets, Richard From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Jan 8 19:01:42 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:01:42 -0600 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <001301c7337d$ea7938d0$6601a8c0@HOME> References: <001301c7337d$ea7938d0$6601a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Ah...I know what this is now -- during the reign of Guitar Hero last year, I saw the golf game from this system on sale at Best Buy...but because it was just golf...and me being a fan of anything NOT golf...I didn't pay much attention. Now that I see that they are trying for a bigger audience, I no longer have it categorized in my mind as "one game only" controller...like Guitar Hero...which isn't a system, just a game with fancy controller. Although...it is an awesome game if you are music geek like me. :) Anyway, yeah, the Wii came in with all the hoopla but there's also been the Xavix game system out for about two years now. It's it's a system that is "plug and play" but does not require another console. I'm wondering who exactly is cashing in on this patent... Michelle (who's driving her neighbors insane with Sing Star that just (finally) came out for the US market...I'm already dying for new songs...and let me tell you...I sing a mean "Paint it, Black" by the Stones...no snarky remarks people...) >Richard (and all) > >Fusion looks interesting. Thanks! > >Lynn > >Subject: Re: [games_access] Sorry for absence- question about the use >of AI techniques for developing adaptive, accessible games,question/comment > >about Wii > > >And don't forget Wii is not the *only* one to focus on. The Christmas >edition of Edge Magazine featured an interesting article about Gametrak's >Fusion - a more-advanced motion-sensing game controller system than the Wii: > >http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=14 > >I think they're making this so it works for both PS3 and XBox360... and >they're trying to create about 23 game titles to sell with the hardware for >the next four years or so... > >Greets, > >Richard > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Tue Jan 9 10:41:52 2007 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (Jonathan Chetwynd) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:41:52 +0000 Subject: [games_access] contact details for "Mind control" demo at Brighton 2006 Message-ID: <637D4543-2B01-40DA-B76B-1D63CDAE2982@btinternet.com> contact details for "Mind control" demo at Brighton 2006 Could someone please remind me who showed the "mind control" video? contact details? cheers Jonathan Chetwynd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jan 9 12:43:37 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:43:37 -0000 Subject: [games_access] contact details for "Mind control" demo at Brighton2006 References: <637D4543-2B01-40DA-B76B-1D63CDAE2982@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <006e01c73415$b1f32cd0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Happy new year Jonathan, Thomas Westin showed the Mind Control stuff: thomas at PININTERACTIVE.COM Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Chetwynd To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: [games_access] contact details for "Mind control" demo at Brighton2006 contact details for "Mind control" demo at Brighton 2006 Could someone please remind me who showed the "mind control" video? contact details? cheers Jonathan Chetwynd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jan 9 12:45:39 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:45:39 -0000 Subject: [games_access] GameTrak Fusion made more accessible - e-mail from CEO Elliott Myers Message-ID: <007c01c73415$fa635580$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Just received this encouraging e-mail from Elliott Myers of in2games, who have a rival system to the Wii-mote that looks very promising... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elliott Myers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Barrie > Dear Barrie, > > Thanks for your email. Unfortunately, I am on the road right now so don't > have long to respond. > > I am also personally very interested in helping less fortunate gamers who > perhaps are not able to enjoy their video games as much as others. > Obviously there are different people with different problems, so one can > never solve everything, but if we can help, we will! > > The market for making games is so competitive, each company needs to think > commercially when it comes to making any game development decisions. As > you correctly point out, small improvements such as allowing sensitivities > to be tweaked is absolutely possible and we will bear this in mind with > all our future releases. > > Thanks again with your interest. > > Regards, > > Elliott > > > > From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Jan 9 18:16:33 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:16:33 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GameTrak Fusion made more accessible - e-mail fromCEO Elliott Myers In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzk+SEA Message-ID: <002801c73444$35a0f570$6401a8c0@Inspiron> Does this wonderful person Elliott need to follow up with us so that they know they're on the right track at least hopefully they will? It's one thing to say they're going to adjust sensitivity but they really know how to fly that and willing to explore what we probably don't have a clue about with prototyping something I really wish us as a group have more control over helping people to do. Someday I think our group should work on a game. What exactly is the system called it never heard of it if you get a chance and use of the spilling to see what it looks like or does? Thanks so much for sharing. This really the only response I've ever seen that someone on a console or videogame company not related to the subject or have personal interest like we do would actually help. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:46 PM To: IGDA GA mailing list Subject: [games_access] GameTrak Fusion made more accessible - e-mail fromCEO Elliott Myers Just received this encouraging e-mail from Elliott Myers of in2games, who have a rival system to the Wii-mote that looks very promising... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elliott Myers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Barrie > Dear Barrie, > > Thanks for your email. Unfortunately, I am on the road right now so don't > have long to respond. > > I am also personally very interested in helping less fortunate gamers who > perhaps are not able to enjoy their video games as much as others. > Obviously there are different people with different problems, so one can > never solve everything, but if we can help, we will! > > The market for making games is so competitive, each company needs to think > commercially when it comes to making any game development decisions. As > you correctly point out, small improvements such as allowing sensitivities > to be tweaked is absolutely possible and we will bear this in mind with > all our future releases. > > Thanks again with your interest. > > Regards, > > Elliott > > > > _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From dis at d-gamer.com Wed Jan 10 01:56:52 2007 From: dis at d-gamer.com (Corey 'Dis' Krull) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:56:52 -0800 Subject: [games_access] I need your help Message-ID: <20070110065654.65DE5AE8A@mailwash7.pair.com> Hi Everyone, How are all of you? I haven't posted here in some time but I need your help. I posted the fallowing on my site tonight: "I may be getting a chance to speak about Accessible Gaming at a function in my area. I feel that I am not that good at giving speeches, probably because I get very nervous in a crowd of strangers. Anyway, I am telling you this because I need your help with this. For me to speak well I just need a well written speech. I want to speak about the importance of gaming and how it helps with your mental health, accessible controllers and things that can be done to make games more accessible. All that I am asking from you is some ideas of what all I should discuss. It needs to be around 20 minutes long, so any ideas would be nice. I will also be doing a PowerPoint presentation." Thanks, Corey 'Dis' Krull DGAMER.COM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agdev at thechases.com Wed Jan 10 06:57:28 2007 From: agdev at thechases.com (Tim Chase) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:57:28 -0600 Subject: [games_access] I need your help In-Reply-To: <20070110065654.65DE5AE8A@mailwash7.pair.com> References: <20070110065654.65DE5AE8A@mailwash7.pair.com> Message-ID: <45A4D4A8.4060408@thechases.com> > I haven't posted here in some time but I need your help. > I posted the fallowing on my site tonight: Heh, the definition of "fallowing" (yes, I know you likely meant "following", but it was kinda funny in my weird mind) is: 1. To plow (land) without seeding it afterward. 2. To plow and till (land), especially to eradicate or reduce weeds. Sounds sorta like what you wanted to do...plow the idea to reduce weeds :) > "I may be getting a chance to speak about Accessible Gaming at a function in > my area. Well, from the list's discussions about prep for IGDA presentations, there's clearly enough for half-day and full-day sessions, so 20 minutes should be a cakewalk. The hard part might be winnowing it *down* to 20 minutes. :) Is there a particular subset of accessibility you intend to address? I.e. just visual impairments? Just hearing impairments? Mobility issues? Learning/cognitive issues? Or do you plan to try and address them all? Oh, and what sort of organization is it (what's the target audience)? Are they existing game developers? Are they management-types? Are they accessibility advocates that know nothing about the gaming field? Okay, so it's a lot of questions, but there are a lot of directions you could go with it. -tim From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Jan 10 16:02:31 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:02:31 -0000 Subject: [games_access] I need your help References: <20070110065654.65DE5AE8A@mailwash7.pair.com> Message-ID: <029701c734fa$a6453410$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> Hello Corey, I'd recommend trawling through the resources at www.game-accessibility.com - http://www.game-accessibility.com/index.php?pagefile=papers - Some of the videos might be very helpful. This said, I can't get the videos to work at present, without messing about with the URLs. E.g. the first video shortcut reads: mms://mediaserver.wustl.edu/mpa/brainGames/clip.wmv But if you change it to http://mediaserver.wustl.edu/mpa/brainGames/clip.wmv - it works on my machine. You may need to do the same (can this be fixed Richard/Sander?) Also feel free to use anything on my web-site such as the pioneers page, or the barriers document: http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2library.htm Try not to worry too much, but have some interesting pictures, a short video maybe to stop things from being too dry. Maybe squeeze in an accessible game for play if you have time spare. I'm sure people will be very interested in what you have to say, so take courage from that, and that what you have to say is really important for a lot of people. Escapism is a big part of many people's lives. Most people can relate to having that denied to them. Good luck, and let us know how you go!!! Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk http://switchgaming.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Corey 'Dis' Krull To: games_access at igda.org Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:56 AM Subject: [games_access] I need your help Hi Everyone, How are all of you? I haven't posted here in some time but I need your help. I posted the fallowing on my site tonight: "I may be getting a chance to speak about Accessible Gaming at a function in my area. I feel that I am not that good at giving speeches, probably because I get very nervous in a crowd of strangers. Anyway, I am telling you this because I need your help with this. For me to speak well I just need a well written speech. I want to speak about the importance of gaming and how it helps with your mental health, accessible controllers and things that can be done to make games more accessible. All that I am asking from you is some ideas of what all I should discuss. It needs to be around 20 minutes long, so any ideas would be nice. I will also be doing a PowerPoint presentation." Thanks, Corey 'Dis' Krull DGAMER.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Jan 10 19:09:15 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:09:15 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind Message-ID: Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in classrooms. Michelle >ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >From: "Eelke Folmer" >To: "d. michelle hinn" , > "Richard Tol van" >Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >accessible to the blind > >Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >featured in today's >mail. > >cheers Eelke > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Eelke Folmer >Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >to the blind >To: games_access at igda.org > > >http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 > >People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >(especially with regard to the class action suit): > >"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" > >Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) > >~ Eelke > > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From richard at audiogames.net Thu Jan 11 01:49:17 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:49:17 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind References: Message-ID: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can make all the difference in the world - legally. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind > Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest > blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. > > Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen > to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in > classrooms. > > Michelle > >>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >> "Richard Tol van" >>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>accessible to the blind >> >>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>featured in today's >>mail. >> >>cheers Eelke >> >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: Eelke Folmer >>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>to the blind >>To: games_access at igda.org >> >> >>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >> >>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >> >>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >> >>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >> >>~ Eelke >> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Thu Jan 11 14:20:16 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:20:16 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about makingSecondLife accessible to the blind References: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <00b101c735b5$86705550$6402a8c0@Delletje> Interesting follow up: http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2007/1/second_life_open_source_accessible_.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about makingSecondLife accessible to the blind > Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to > keep > in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a > game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem > like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it > can > make all the difference in the world - legally. > > Greets, > > Richard > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d. michelle hinn" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM > Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > SecondLife > accessible to the blind > > >> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> classrooms. >> >> Michelle >> >>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >>> "Richard Tol van" >>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>>accessible to the blind >>> >>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>>featured in today's >>>mail. >>> >>>cheers Eelke >>> >>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>From: Eelke Folmer >>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>>to the blind >>>To: games_access at igda.org >>> >>> >>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >>> >>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >>> >>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >>> >>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >>> >>>~ Eelke >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 11 18:39:58 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:39:58 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind In-Reply-To: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" for some that even Reuters international news service is following it puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or businesses...or classes... And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at whatever point in time. The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). Michelle >Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep >in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can >make all the difference in the world - legally. > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >accessible to the blind > > >> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> classrooms. >> >> Michelle >> >>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >>> "Richard Tol van" >>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>>accessible to the blind >>> >>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>>featured in today's >>>mail. >>> >>>cheers Eelke >>> >>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>From: Eelke Folmer >>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>>to the blind >>>To: games_access at igda.org >>> >>> >>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >>> >>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >>> >>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >>> >>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >>> >>>~ Eelke >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu Thu Jan 11 20:17:01 2007 From: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu (Roome, Thomas C) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:17:01 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind References: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss the issues. Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability coordinator and I am trying to work with him. Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the lab. This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open source application then we can make a accessible client for all. I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank You, Tom Roome ATEC Teacher Assistant The University of Texas at Dallas E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu ________________________________ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" for some that even Reuters international news service is following it puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or businesses...or classes... And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at whatever point in time. The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). Michelle >Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep >in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can >make all the difference in the world - legally. > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >accessible to the blind > > >> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> classrooms. >> >> Michelle >> >>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >>> "Richard Tol van" >>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>>accessible to the blind >>> >>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>>featured in today's >>>mail. >>> >>>cheers Eelke >>> >>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>From: Eelke Folmer >>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>>to the blind >>>To: games_access at igda.org >>> >>> >>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >>> >>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >>> >>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >>> >>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >>> >>>~ Eelke >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 11935 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 11 21:38:11 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:38:11 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind In-Reply-To: References: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Del letje> Message-ID: That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation even though you are not with Linden. Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not a game goes beyond our SIG scope. Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and anything else people can imagine in that world. The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is second life. Yes, there are people who can play some games using more extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested members in the committee you suggest. So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. Michelle IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss the issues. > >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. > >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the >lab. > >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. > >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. > >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Thank You, >Tom Roome >ATEC Teacher Assistant >The University of Texas at Dallas >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu > > > >________________________________ > >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >SecondLife accessible to the blind > > > >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" >for some that even Reuters international news service is following it >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is >not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or >businesses...or classes... > >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at >whatever point in time. > >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). > >Michelle > >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can >>make all the difference in the world - legally. >> >>Greets, >> >>Richard >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "d. michelle hinn" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>accessible to the blind >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >>> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >>> classrooms. >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >>>> "Richard Tol van" >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>>>accessible to the blind >>>> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>>>featured in today's >>>>mail. >>>> >>>>cheers Eelke > >>> >>>> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>From: Eelke Folmer >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>>>to the blind >>>>To: games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >>>> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >>>> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >>>> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >>>> >>>>~ Eelke >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From list at pitaru.com Thu Jan 11 23:11:21 2007 From: list at pitaru.com (Amit Pitaru [LIST]) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:11:21 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c101c735ff$b7b12140$6400a8c0@KYOTO5> My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: ###### So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to forget anyone" type of website. It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. Some quickies about the site, * A forum and blog are going up shortly. * Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. * Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? * IE browser is a pain in the arse. * Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. Stay warm. Thanks! John ###### From reid at rbkdesign.com Fri Jan 12 00:33:17 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:33:17 -0800 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member of a unique club. Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no matter how terrible that may be. When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students using it. -Reid On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also > contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation > even though you are not with Linden. > > Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free > discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when > discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore > immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, > falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we > are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take > offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much > territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify > having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is > not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so > many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our > mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much > more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming > portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not > a game goes beyond our SIG scope. > > Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated > world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide > facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also > provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and > anything else people can imagine in that world. > > The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and > it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the > lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be > censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle > us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response > but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. > One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find > a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense > when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm > afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many > examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") > responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed > captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. > > I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and > have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct > and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this > academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used > disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to > suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is second life. > Yes, there are people who can play some games using more > extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that > prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others > who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There > are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of > assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've > assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. > > So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness > for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to > form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to > have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not > the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has > been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." > So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high > profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry > to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why > you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested > members in the committee you suggest. > > So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I > support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this > list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help > facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us > will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and > personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able > to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. > > Michelle > IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair > > >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss the issues. > > > >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability > >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. > > > >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an > >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of > >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the > >lab. > > > >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for > >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. > > > >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble > >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open > >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. > > > >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >Thank You, > >Tom Roome > >ATEC Teacher Assistant > >The University of Texas at Dallas > >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn > >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >SecondLife accessible to the blind > > > > > > > >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" > >for some that even Reuters international news service is following it > >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is > >not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or > >businesses...or classes... > > > >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off > >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. > >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming > >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of > >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves > >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at > >whatever point in time. > > > >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL > >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves > >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books > >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). > > > >Michelle > > > >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep > >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a > >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem > >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can > >>make all the difference in the world - legally. > >> > >>Greets, > >> > >>Richard > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "d. michelle hinn" > >>To: > >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM > >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >>accessible to the blind > >> > >> > >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest > >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. > >>> > >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen > >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in > >>> classrooms. > >>> > >>> Michelle > >>> > >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 > >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" > >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , > >>>> "Richard Tol van" > >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >>>>accessible to the blind > >>>> > >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't > >>>>featured in today's > >>>>mail. > >>>> > >>>>cheers Eelke > > >>> > >>>> > >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>>>From: Eelke Folmer > >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM > >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible > >>>>to the blind > >>>>To: games_access at igda.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 > >>>> > >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter > >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): > >>>> > >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the > >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the > >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe > >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for > >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" > >>>> > >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) > >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C > >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open > >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative > >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe > >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the > >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to > >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) > >>>> > >>>>~ Eelke > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> games_access mailing list > >>> games_access at igda.org > >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>games_access mailing list > >>games_access at igda.org > >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 12 00:44:12 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. Michelle >Hi all, > >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member >of a unique club. > >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no >matter how terrible that may be. > >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students >using it. > >-Reid > >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation >> even though you are not with Linden. >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and >> anything else people can imagine in that world. >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is second life. >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested >> members in the committee you suggest. >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. >> >> Michelle >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss >>the issues. >> > >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. >> > >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the >> >lab. >> > >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. >> > >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. >> > >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? >> > >> > >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Thank You, >> >Tom Roome >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant >> >The University of Texas at Dallas >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu >> > >> > >> > >> >________________________________ >> > >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind >> > >> > >> > >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is following it >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or >> >businesses...or classes... >> > >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at >> >whatever point in time. >> > >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). >> > >> >Michelle >> > >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do >>need to keep >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation >>discussion), it can >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. >> >> >> >>Greets, >> >> >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >>To: >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >>SecondLife >> >>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >>> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> >>> classrooms. >> >>> >> >>> Michelle >> >>> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >>>>accessible to the blind >> >>>> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >> >>>>featured in today's >> >>>>mail. >> >>>> >> >>>>cheers Eelke >> > >>> >> >>>> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >> >>>>to the blind >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >> >>>> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >> >>>> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >> >>>> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >> >>>> >> >>>>~ Eelke >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>-- >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>-- >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>games_access mailing list >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 12 00:50:03 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site In-Reply-To: <00c101c735ff$b7b12140$6400a8c0@KYOTO5> References: <00c101c735ff$b7b12140$6400a8c0@KYOTO5> Message-ID: Hi Amit! So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I should YouTube...I'll try it out! Michelle >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > >###### > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to >forget anyone" type of website. >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > >Some quickies about the site, >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > >Stay warm. > >Thanks! >John > >###### > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From reid at rbkdesign.com Fri Jan 12 00:59:54 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 Subject: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site In-Reply-To: References: <00c101c735ff$b7b12140$6400a8c0@KYOTO5> Message-ID: I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a community of people. -Reid On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Hi Amit! > > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! > > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I > should YouTube...I'll try it out! > > Michelle > > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > > > >###### > > > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to > >forget anyone" type of website. > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet > >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > > > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > > > >Some quickies about the site, > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > > > >Stay warm. > > > >Thanks! > >John > > > >###### > > > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From lynnvm at carolina.rr.com Fri Jan 12 17:30:45 2007 From: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com (lynnvm at carolina.rr.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:30:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] accessible SecondLife Vol 31, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001c01c73699$4e103650$6601a8c0@HOME> TechPsych Interactive Multimedia Technology -----Original Message----- Hi. UNC-Charlotte and Central Piedmont Community College will be doing something with Second Life soon. I don't know if they have thought about accessibility. I'll find out soon! I just found the site for Second Life at the public library: http://www.plcmc.org/teens/secondlife.asp Here is a blog for people who are teen librarians and use SecondLife http://eye4youalliance.youthtech.info/ I still am working on the game accessibility issue in library settings. The speech/language pathologist I work with remembers reading somewhere that the main library in Charlotte has some accessibility hardware for games. If they do, they might be looking at accessibility issues for their Second Life site. I will be seeing the teacher for the visually impaired students at my school on Tuesday, and I'll ask her what she knows, too. As I mentioned before, the main assistive technology resource for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg region closed down for lack of funds. As far as I am concerned, this is an emergency. We are trying to put together a list of people who are involved with assistive technology in our region so we can share information and figure out what steps we need to take. By the way, I just sent an e-mail to the public library's Emerging Technologies Manager and asked him about accessibility for games and SecondLife. I'll let you know his reply! Lynn Marentette Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 From: "d. michelle hinn" Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. Michelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynnvm at carolina.rr.com Fri Jan 12 17:39:56 2007 From: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com (lynnvm at carolina.rr.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:39:56 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Second Life Accessibility - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101c7369a$95f6a020$6601a8c0@HOME> Michelle- and all, You might be interested in this! The contacts at the library in Charlotte NC are Kelly Czarnecki and Matt Gullett. They wrote an article about Second Life that was on the cover of the School Library Journal this month: http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6403251.html Here is a little information from the link: "PLCMC and the Alliance Library System (ALS) in East Peoria, IL, announced a formal partnership to create Eye4You Alliance" "Meet the New You" By Kelly Czarnecki and Matt Gullett -- 1/1/2007 "In Teen Second Life, librarians can leap tall buildings in a single bound and save kids from boring assignments-all before lunch"..... OK. I live here, I have a Second Life character, I've been to the Serious Games Summit, I've taken game classes here. I didn't know until now what was going on in my own backyard. I really need to meet Kelly and Matt. Lynn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 12 18:49:30 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:49:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [games_access] secondlife...from eelke Message-ID: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe. Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore, does not work with the accessible viewer. And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical entrance to the library or school or home? Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus, decreasing our effectiveness. Michelle ______________ >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800 >From: "Eelke Folmer" >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >To: games_access at igda.org > >Hi, > >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf. > >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is >supported by the underlying object representation in SL. > >Cheers Eelke > >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org wrote: >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to >> games_access at igda.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> games_access-request at igda.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> games_access-owner at igda.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> SecondLife accessible to the blind >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. >> >> Michelle >> >> >Hi all, >> > >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member >> >of a unique club. >> > >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no >> >matter how terrible that may be. >> > >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students >> >using it. >> > >> >-Reid >> > >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation >> >> even though you are not with Linden. >> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. >> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world. >> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. >> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is second life. >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. >> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested >> >> members in the committee you suggest. >> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair >> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss >> >>the issues. >> >> > >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. >> >> > >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the >> >> >lab. >> >> > >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. >> >> > >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. >> >> > >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >Thank You, >> >> >Tom Roome >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >________________________________ >> >> > >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is following it >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or >> >> >businesses...or classes... >> >> > >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at >> >> >whatever point in time. >> >> > >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). >> >> > >> >> >Michelle >> >> > >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do >> >>need to keep >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation >> >>discussion), it can >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. >> >> >> >> >> >>Greets, >> >> >> >> >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >>To: >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >>SecondLife >> >> >>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> >> >>> classrooms. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Michelle >> >> >>> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >> >> >>>>featured in today's >> >> >>>>mail. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke >> >> > >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >> >> >>>>to the blind >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>games_access mailing list >> >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> Hi Amit! >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> >> Michelle >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> > >> >###### >> > >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to >> >forget anyone" type of website. >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >> >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . >> > >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> > >> >Some quickies about the site, >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. >> > >> >Stay warm. >> > >> >Thanks! >> >John >> > >> >###### >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 >> From: "Reid Kimball" >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a >> community of people. >> >> -Reid >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> > Hi Amit! >> > >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> > >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> > >> > Michelle >> > >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> > > >> > >###### >> > > >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to >> > >forget anyone" type of website. >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . >> > > >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> > > >> > >Some quickies about the site, >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. >> > > >> > >Stay warm. >> > > >> > >Thanks! >> > >John >> > > >> > >###### >> > > >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >games_access mailing list >> > >games_access at igda.org >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >> ******************************************** >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From reid at rbkdesign.com Fri Jan 12 19:48:44 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:48:44 -0800 Subject: [games_access] secondlife...from eelke In-Reply-To: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :) -Reid On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D > > Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe. > > Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore, does not work with the accessible viewer. > > And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical entrance to the library or school or home? > > Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus, decreasing our effectiveness. > > Michelle > > ______________ > >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800 > >From: "Eelke Folmer" > >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 > >To: games_access at igda.org > > > >Hi, > > > >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside > >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual > >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no > >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this > >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its > >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf. > > > >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous > >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain > >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy > >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is > >supported by the underlying object representation in SL. > > > >Cheers Eelke > > > >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org wrote: > >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to > >> games_access at igda.org > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> games_access-request at igda.org > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> games_access-owner at igda.org > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) > >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) > >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 > >> From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> SecondLife accessible to the blind > >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> Message-ID: > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >> > >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created > >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable > >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An > >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming > >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. > >> > >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had > >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it > >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. > >> > >> Michelle > >> > >> >Hi all, > >> > > >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit > >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run > >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They > >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly > >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members > >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy > >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member > >> >of a unique club. > >> > > >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or > >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make > >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should > >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as > >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions > >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up > >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires > >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no > >> >matter how terrible that may be. > >> > > >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to > >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a > >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that > >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being > >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements > >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students > >> >using it. > >> > > >> >-Reid > >> > > >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also > >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation > >> >> even though you are not with Linden. > >> >> > >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free > >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when > >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore > >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, > >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we > >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take > >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much > >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify > >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is > >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so > >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our > >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much > >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming > >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not > >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. > >> >> > >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated > >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide > >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also > >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and > >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world. > >> >> > >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and > >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the > >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and > >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be > >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle > >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response > >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. > >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find > >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense > >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm > >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many > >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") > >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed > >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. > >> >> > >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and > >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct > >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this > >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used > >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is second life. > >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more > >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that > >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others > >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There > >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of > >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've > >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. > >> >> > >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness > >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to > >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to > >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not > >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has > >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." > >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high > >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry > >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why > >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested > >> >> members in the committee you suggest. > >> >> > >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I > >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this > >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help > >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us > >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and > >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able > >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. > >> >> > >> >> Michelle > >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair > >> >> > >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss > >> >>the issues. > >> >> > > >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability > >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. > >> >> > > >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an > >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of > >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the > >> >> >lab. > >> >> > > >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for > >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. > >> >> > > >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble > >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open > >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. > >> >> > > >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >Thank You, > >> >> >Tom Roome > >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant > >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas > >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >________________________________ > >> >> > > >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn > >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM > >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" > >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is following it > >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is > >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or > >> >> >businesses...or classes... > >> >> > > >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. > >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming > >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of > >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves > >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at > >> >> >whatever point in time. > >> >> > > >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL > >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves > >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books > >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). > >> >> > > >> >> >Michelle > >> >> > > >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do > >> >>need to keep > >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a > >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem > >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation > >> >>discussion), it can > >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>Greets, > >> >> >> > >> >> >>Richard > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> >> >>To: > >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM > >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> >>SecondLife > >> >> >>accessible to the blind > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest > >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen > >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in > >> >> >>> classrooms. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Michelle > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 > >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" > >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , > >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" > >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't > >> >> >>>>featured in today's > >> >> >>>>mail. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke > >> >> > >>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer > >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM > >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible > >> >> >>>>to the blind > >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter > >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the > >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the > >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe > >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for > >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) > >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C > >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open > >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative > >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe > >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the > >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to > >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>~ Eelke > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>-- > >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>-- > >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >> >> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> games_access mailing list > >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org > >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> > >> >> >>_______________________________________________ > >> >> >>games_access mailing list > >> >> >>games_access at igda.org > >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> games_access mailing list > >> >> games_access at igda.org > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >games_access mailing list > >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 > >> From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site > >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> Message-ID: > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >> > >> Hi Amit! > >> > >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter > >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm > >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! > >> > >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in > >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I > >> should YouTube...I'll try it out! > >> > >> Michelle > >> > >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just > >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - > >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best > >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > >> > > >> >###### > >> > > >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program > >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles > >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption > >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to > >> >forget anyone" type of website. > >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime > >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet > >> >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > >> > > >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, > >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If > >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to > >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > >> > > >> >Some quickies about the site, > >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to > >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. > >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? > >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. > >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video > >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > >> > > >> >Stay warm. > >> > > >> >Thanks! > >> >John > >> > > >> >###### > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >games_access mailing list > >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 > >> From: "Reid Kimball" > >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site > >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >> > >> Message-ID: > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> > >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to > >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about > >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not > >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the > >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the > >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over > >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was > >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. > >> > >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that > >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a > >> community of people. > >> > >> -Reid > >> > >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >> > Hi Amit! > >> > > >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter > >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm > >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! > >> > > >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in > >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I > >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out! > >> > > >> > Michelle > >> > > >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel (schimmel at nyu.edu) has just > >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - > >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best > >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > >> > > > >> > >###### > >> > > > >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since Oct. (I program > >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add captions/subtitles > >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption > >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want the Internet to > >> > >forget anyone" type of website. > >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime > >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet > >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here, http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > >> > > > >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, > >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are multilingual. If > >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the website on to > >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > >> > > > >> > >Some quickies about the site, > >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to > >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. > >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? > >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. > >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video > >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > >> > > > >> > >Stay warm. > >> > > > >> > >Thanks! > >> > >John > >> > > > >> > >###### > >> > > > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> > >games_access mailing list > >> > >games_access at igda.org > >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > games_access mailing list > >> > games_access at igda.org > >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >> > >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 > >> ******************************************** > >> > > > > > >-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 12 20:48:53 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:48:53 -0600 Subject: [games_access] secondlife...from eelke In-Reply-To: References: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games -- we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the accessibility of Microsoft Excel. If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can* also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be a gaming environment but in itself is not that. I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we go too far down SL lane." My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc. Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again. I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not Flash itself was accessible. Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :) >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :) > >-Reid > >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D >> >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe. >> >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore, >>does not work with the accessible viewer. >> >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical >>entrance to the library or school or home? > > >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus, >>decreasing our effectiveness. >> >> Michelle >> >> ______________ >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800 >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >> >To: games_access at igda.org >> > >> >Hi, >> > >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf. >> > >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL. >> > >> >Cheers Eelke >> > >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org >> wrote: >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> >> games_access-request at igda.org >> >> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org >> >> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." >> >> >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Message: 1 >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. >> >> >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> >Hi all, >> >> > >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member >> >> >of a unique club. >> >> > >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no >> >> >matter how terrible that may be. >> >> > >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students >> >> >using it. >> >> > >> >> >-Reid >> >> > >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden. >> >> >> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. >> >> >> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world. >> >> >> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. >> >> >> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is >second life. >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. >> >> >> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest. >> >> >> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. >> >> >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair >> >> >> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss >> >> >>the issues. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the >> >> >> >lab. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem >>in detail? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >Thank You, >> >> >> >Tom Roome >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >________________________________ >> >> >> > >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is >>following it >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create >>games...or >> >> >> >businesses...or classes... >> >> >> > >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at >> >> >> >whatever point in time. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Michelle >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do >> >> >>need to keep >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a >>simulation instead of a >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). >>While this may seem >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation >> >> >>discussion), it can >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Greets, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >> >>To: >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >> >>SecondLife >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as >>I'm about to guest >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was >>bound to happen >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are >>being used in >> >> >> >>> classrooms. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Michelle >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list >>but it wasn't >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's >> >> >> >>>>mail. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>accessible >> >> >> >>>>to the blind >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the >>subject matter >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? >>Should they sue the >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that >>verbally describe >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows >>only work for >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder >>linden labs) >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which >>support alternative >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. >>However I believe >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are >>supported on the >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding >meta information to >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Message: 2 >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> >> >> Hi Amit! >> >> >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> >> >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> >> > >> >> >###### >> >> > >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since >>Oct. (I program >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add >>captions/subtitles >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want >>the Internet to >> >> >forget anyone" type of website. >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here, >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > > >> > >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are >>multilingual. If >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the >>website on to >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> >> > >> >> >Some quickies about the site, >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. >> >> > >> >> >Stay warm. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks! >> >> >John >> >> > >> >> >###### >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Message: 3 >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> >> >> Message-ID: >> >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. >> >> >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a >> >> community of people. >> >> >> >> -Reid >> >> >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >> > Hi Amit! >> >> > >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> >> > >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> >> > >> >> > Michelle >> >> > >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> >> > > >> >> > >###### >> >> > > >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since >>Oct. (I program >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add >>captions/subtitles >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want >>the Internet to >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website. >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here, >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . >> >> > > >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are >>multilingual. If >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the >>website on to >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> >> > > >> >> > >Some quickies about the site, >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in >the works to >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. >> >> > > >> >> > >Stay warm. >> >> > > >> >> > >Thanks! >> >> > >John >> >> > > >> >> > >###### >> >> > > >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >> >> > >games_access mailing list >> >> > >games_access at igda.org >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > games_access mailing list >> >> > games_access at igda.org >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >> >> ******************************************** >> >> >> > >> > >> >-- >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From reid at rbkdesign.com Sat Jan 13 01:15:42 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:15:42 -0800 Subject: [games_access] secondlife...from eelke In-Reply-To: References: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Whoops, I need to make clear that I also think efforts in controller design is very important and applicable to digital games. I don't want people thinking that I'm only interested in software, which I'm not. -Reid On 1/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital > games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our > members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and > hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our > battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital > life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility > of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any > platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of > the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games -- > we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING > experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many > people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that > to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the > accessibility of Microsoft Excel. > > If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can* > also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have > more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be > a gaming environment but in itself is not that. > > I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we > go too far down SL lane." > > My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or > anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it > ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall > 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money > to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc. > Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a > lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again. > I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some > wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post > as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than > we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games > in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not > Flash itself was accessible. > > Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :) > > >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more > >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the > >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow > >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our > >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning > >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web > >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only > >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut > >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :) > > > >-Reid > > > >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit > >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you > >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few > >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D > >> > >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe. > >> > >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the > >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and > >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged > >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create > >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it > >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded > >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore, > >>does not work with the accessible viewer. > >> > >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game > >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that > >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or > >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support > >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what > >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the > >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's > >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is > >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we > >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical > >>entrance to the library or school or home? > > > > >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to > >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do > >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus, > >>decreasing our effectiveness. > >> > >> Michelle > >> > >> ______________ > >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800 > >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" > >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 > >> >To: games_access at igda.org > >> > > >> >Hi, > >> > > >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside > >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual > >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no > >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this > >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its > >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf. > >> > > >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous > >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain > >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy > >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is > >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL. > >> > > >> >Cheers Eelke > >> > > >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org > >> wrote: > >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to > >> >> games_access at igda.org > >> >> > >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> >> games_access-request at igda.org > >> >> > >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org > >> >> > >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Today's Topics: > >> >> > >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) > >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) > >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > >> >> Message: 1 > >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 > >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind > >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> >> Message-ID: > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >> >> > >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created > >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable > >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An > >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming > >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. > >> >> > >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had > >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it > >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. > >> >> > >> >> Michelle > >> >> > >> >> >Hi all, > >> >> > > >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit > >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run > >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They > >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly > >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members > >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy > >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member > >> >> >of a unique club. > >> >> > > >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or > >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make > >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should > >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and > > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as > >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions > >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up > >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires > >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no > >> >> >matter how terrible that may be. > >> >> > > >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to > >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a > >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that > >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being > >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements > >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students > >> >> >using it. > >> >> > > >> >> >-Reid > >> >> > > >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also > >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation > >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free > >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when > >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore > >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, > >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we > >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take > >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much > >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify > >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is > >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so > >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our > >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much > >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming > >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not > >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated > >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide > >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also > >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and > >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and > >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the > >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and > >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be > >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle > >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response > >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received. > >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find > >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense > >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm > >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many > >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") > >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed > >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and > >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct > >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this > >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used > >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to > > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is > >second life. > >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more > >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that > >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others > >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There > >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of > >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've > >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness > >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to > >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to > >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not > >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has > >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game." > >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high > >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry > >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why > >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested > >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I > >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this > >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help > >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us > >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and > >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able > >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Michelle > >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss > >> >> >>the issues. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability > >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an > >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of > >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the > >> >> >> >lab. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for > >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble > >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open > >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem > >>in detail? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >Thank You, > >> >> >> >Tom Roome > >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant > >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas > >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >________________________________ > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn > >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM > >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" > >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is > >>following it > >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is > >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create > >>games...or > >> >> >> >businesses...or classes... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off > > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. > >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming > >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of > >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves > >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at > >> >> >> >whatever point in time. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL > >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves > >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books > >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Michelle > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do > >> >> >>need to keep > >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a > >>simulation instead of a > >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). > >>While this may seem > >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation > >> >> >>discussion), it can > >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>Greets, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>Richard > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> >> >> >>To: > >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM > >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making > >> >> >>SecondLife > >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as > >>I'm about to guest > >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was > >>bound to happen > >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are > >>being used in > >> >> >> >>> classrooms. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> Michelle > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 > >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" > >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , > >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" > >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list > >>but it wasn't > >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's > >> >> >> >>>>mail. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer > >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM > >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife > >>accessible > >> >> >> >>>>to the blind > >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> > >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the > >>subject matter > >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the > >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? > >>Should they sue the > >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that > >>verbally describe > >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows > >>only work for > >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder > >>linden labs) > >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C > >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open > >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which > >>support alternative > >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. > >>However I believe > >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are > >>supported on the > >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in > > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding > >meta information to > >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>-- > >> >> >> > >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >> >> >> > >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>-- > >> >> >> > >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >> >> >> > >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list > >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list > >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> games_access mailing list > >> >> >> games_access at igda.org > >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------ > >> >> > >> >> Message: 2 > >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 > >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site > >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > >> >> Message-ID: > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >> >> > >> >> Hi Amit! > >> >> > >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter > >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm > >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! > >> >> > >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in > >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I > >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out! > >> >> > >> >> Michelle > >> >> > >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel > >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just > >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - > >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best > >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > >> >> > > >> >> >###### > >> >> > > >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since > >>Oct. (I program > >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add > >>captions/subtitles > >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption > >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want > >>the Internet to > >> >> >forget anyone" type of website. > >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime > >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet > >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here, > >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > > > >> > > >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, > >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are > >>multilingual. If > >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the > >>website on to > >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > >> >> > > >> >> >Some quickies about the site, > >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to > >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. > >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? > >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. > >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video > >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > >> >> > > >> >> >Stay warm. > >> >> > > >> >> >Thanks! > >> >> >John > >> >> > > >> >> >###### > >> >> > > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >games_access mailing list > >> >> >games_access at igda.org > >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------ > >> >> > >> >> Message: 3 > >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 > >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site > >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >> >> > >> >> Message-ID: > >> >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> >> > >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to > >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about > >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not > >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the > >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the > >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over > >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was > >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. > >> >> > >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that > >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a > >> >> community of people. > >> >> > >> >> -Reid > >> >> > >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >> >> > Hi Amit! > >> >> > > >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter > >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm > >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! > >> >> > > >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in > >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I > >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out! > >> >> > > >> >> > Michelle > >> >> > > >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel > >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just > >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission - > >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best > >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: > >> >> > > > >> >> > >###### > >> >> > > > >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since > >>Oct. (I program > >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add > >>captions/subtitles > >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption > >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want > >>the Internet to > >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website. > >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime > >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet > >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here, > >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . > >> >> > > > >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, > >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are > >>multilingual. If > >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the > >>website on to > >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. > >> >> > > > >> >> > >Some quickies about the site, > >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. > > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in > >the works to > >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. > >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? > >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. > >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video > >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. > >> >> > > > >> >> > >Stay warm. > >> >> > > > >> >> > >Thanks! > >> >> > >John > >> >> > > > >> >> > >###### > >> >> > > > >> >> > >_______________________________________________ > >> >> > >games_access mailing list > >> >> > >games_access at igda.org > >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > games_access mailing list > >> >> > games_access at igda.org > >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------ > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> games_access mailing list > >> >> games_access at igda.org > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 > >> >> ******************************************** > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 > >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com > >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ....................................... > >> these are mediocre times and people are > >> losing hope. it's hard for many people > >> to believe that there are extraordinary > >> things inside themselves, as well as > >> others. i hope you can keep an open > >> mind. > >> -- "unbreakable" > >> ....................................... > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Jan 13 15:43:56 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:43:56 -0600 Subject: [games_access] secondlife...from eelke In-Reply-To: References: <20070112174930.AJK79724@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Good point -- and It is something that's often so tied in with a console or a game and often has no other purpose than to support a game that it would be unwise for us not to more actively as a SIG support those efforts. Michelle >Whoops, I need to make clear that I also think efforts in controller >design is very important and applicable to digital games. I don't want >people thinking that I'm only interested in software, which I'm not. > >-Reid > >On 1/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital >> games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our >> members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and >> hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our >> battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital >> life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility >> of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any >> platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of >> the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games -- >> we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING >> experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many >> people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that >> to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the >> accessibility of Microsoft Excel. >> >> If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can* >> also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have >> more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be >> a gaming environment but in itself is not that. >> >> I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we >> go too far down SL lane." >> >> My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or >> anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it >> ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall >> 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money >> to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc. >> Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a >> lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again. >> I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some >> wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post >> as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than >> we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games >> in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not >> Flash itself was accessible. >> >> Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :) >> >> >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more >> >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the >> >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow >> >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our >> >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning >> >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web >> >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only >> >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut >> >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :) >> > >> >-Reid >> > >> >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >> >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit >> >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you >> >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few >> >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D >> >> >> >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe. >> >> >> >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the >> >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and >> >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged > > >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create >> >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it >> >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded >> >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore, >> >>does not work with the accessible viewer. >> >> >> >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game >> >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that >> >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or >> >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support >> >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what >> >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the >> >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's >> >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is >> >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we >> >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical >> >>entrance to the library or school or home? >> > > >> >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to >> >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do >> >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus, >> >>decreasing our effectiveness. >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> ______________ >> >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800 >> >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >> >> >To: games_access at igda.org >> >> > >> >> >Hi, >> >> > >> >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside >> >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual >> >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no >> >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this >> >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its >> >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf. >> >> > >> >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous >> >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain >> >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy >> >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is >> >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL. >> >> > >> >> >Cheers Eelke >> >> > >> >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to >> >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> >> >> games_access-request at igda.org >> >> >> >> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org >> >> >> >> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn) >> >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn) >> >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> Message: 1 >> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600 >> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making >> >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind >> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> >> >> >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created >> >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable > > >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An >> >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming >> >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market. >> >> >> >> >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had >> >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it >> >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel. >> >> >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi all, >> >> >> > >> >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or >>not a law suit >> >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run >> >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They >> >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly >> >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members >> >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy >> >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member >> >> >> >of a unique club. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences >>for fun or >> >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by >>law to make >> >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those >>groups should >> >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and >> > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as >>inclusive as >> >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out >>many millions >> >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up >> >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO >>that requires >> >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no >> >> >> >matter how terrible that may be. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to >> >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a >> >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one >>place that >> >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when >>games are being >> >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and >>requirements >> >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to >>all students >> >> >> >using it. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >-Reid >> >> >> > >> >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also >> >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as >>an invitation >> >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free >> >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and >>to note when >> >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" >>(and therefore >> >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part, >> >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to >>active members, we >> >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take >> >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much >> >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult >>to justify >> >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL >>project that is >> >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so >>thin with so >> >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is >>closer to our >> >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are >>so many much >> >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming >> >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that >>which in SL is not >> >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated >> >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide >> >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also >> >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create >>businesses and > > >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and >> >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were >>discussing the >> >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and >> >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here >>should ever be >> >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming >>in to heckle >> >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden >>Lab's response >> >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original >>article received. >> >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the >>blind need to find >> >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense >> >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm >> >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball >>has many, many >> >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great") >> >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed >> >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in >>this world do. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for >>the Blind and >> >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just >>a construct >> >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this >> >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a >>construct if we used >> >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that >>means). But to >> > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is >> >second life. >> >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more >> >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that >> >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." >>There are others >> >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some >>games. There >> >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of >> >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is >>prohibitive or they've >> >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of >>increasing awareness >> >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone >>who wishes to >> >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible >>SL client to >> >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. >>But SL is not >> >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a >>lawsuit has >> >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's >>not "a game." >> >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high >> >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within >>the industry >> >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see >>no reason why >> >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested >> >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would >>be great and I >> >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee >>and use this >> >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help >> >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us >> >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and >> >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but >>some will be able >> >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together >>to discuss >> >> >> >>the issues. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability >> >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an > > >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of >this type of >> >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be >>deliver by the >> >> >> >> >lab. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make >>sl better for >> >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do >>have trouble >> >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open >> >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem >> >>in detail? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >Thank You, >> >> >> >> >Tom Roome >> >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant >> >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas >> >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >________________________________ >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. >>michelle hinn >> >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM >> >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting >>discussion about making >> >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place >>of business" >> >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is >> >>following it >> >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several >>US laws. SL is >> >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create >> >>games...or >> >> >> >> >businesses...or classes... >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make >>real money off >> > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting >>legal territory. >> >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming >> >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of >> >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to >>align themselves >> >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is >>valuable to them at >> >> >> >> >whatever point in time. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a >>bit -- and SL >> >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to >>defend themselves >> >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on >>the legal books >> >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Michelle >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do >> >> >> >>need to keep >> >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a >> >>simulation instead of a >> >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). >> >>While this may seem >> >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation >> >> >> >>discussion), it can >> >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Greets, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >> >> >>To: >> >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >> >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion >>about making >> >> >> >>SecondLife >> >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as >> >>I'm about to guest >> >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was >> >>bound to happen >> >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are >> >>being used in >> >> >> >> >>> classrooms. >> >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> Michelle >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >> >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >> >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >> >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" >> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list >> >>but it wasn't >> >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's >> >> >> >> >>>>mail. >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer >> >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >> >>accessible >> >> >> >> >>>>to the blind >> >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287 >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the >> >>subject matter >> >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >> >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? >> >>Should they sue the >> >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that >> >>verbally describe >> >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows >> >>only work for >> >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder >> >>linden labs) >> >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to >>follow the W3C >> >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second >>life viewer open >> >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which >> >>support alternative >> >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. >> >>However I believe >> >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are >> >>supported on the >> >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >> > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding >> >meta information to >> >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>-- >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list >> >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> Message: 2 >> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600 >> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Amit! >> >> >> >> >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> >> >> >> >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> >> >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> >> >> >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel >> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. >>His mission - >> >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one >>of the best >> >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >###### >> >> >> > >> >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since >> >>Oct. (I program >> >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add >> >>captions/subtitles >> >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the >>masses caption >> >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want >> >>the Internet to >> >> >> >forget anyone" type of website. >> >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime >> >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet >> >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here, >> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . >> > > >> > >> >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers, >> >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are >> >>multilingual. If >> >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the >> >>website on to >> >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Some quickies about the site, >> >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >> >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is >>in the works to >> >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer >>than the video >> >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Stay warm. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Thanks! >> >> >> >John >> >> >> > >> >> >> >###### >> >> >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >games_access mailing list >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> Message: 3 >> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800 >> >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" > > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site >> >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> >> >> >> >> Message-ID: >> >> >> >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> >> >> >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to >> >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really >>worried about >> >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not >> >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the >> >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the >> >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over >> >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was >> >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's. >> >> >> >> >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that >> >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a >> >> >> community of people. >> >> >> >> >> >> -Reid >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >> >> > Hi Amit! >> >> >> > >> >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter >> >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm >> >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc! >> >> >> > >> >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in >> >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I >> >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out! >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Michelle >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel >> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just >> >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. >>His mission - >> >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is >>one of the best >> >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words: >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >###### >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since >> >>Oct. (I program >> >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add >> >>captions/subtitles >> >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the >>masses caption >> >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want >> >>the Internet to >> >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website. >> >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video >>or Quicktime >> >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, >>excluding Internet >> >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here, >> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video . >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, >>video bloggers, >> >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are >> >>multilingual. If >> >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the >> >>website on to >> >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >Some quickies about the site, >> >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly. >> > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in >> >the works to >> >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles. >> >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas? >> >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse. >> >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer >>than the video >> >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, >>you'll get hurt. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >Stay warm. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >Thanks! >> >> >> > >John >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >###### >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> > >games_access mailing list >> >> >> > >games_access at igda.org >> >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > games_access mailing list >> >> >> > games_access at igda.org >> >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11 >> >> >> ******************************************** >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >-- >> >> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >> >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >> >> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ....................................... >> >> these are mediocre times and people are >> >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> >> things inside themselves, as well as >> >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> >> mind. >> >> -- "unbreakable" >> >> ....................................... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Sat Jan 13 15:57:51 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:57:51 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about makingSecondLife accessible to the blind In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkDSIA References: <007601c7354c$9d382ec0$6402a8c0@Delletje> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkDSIA Message-ID: <000601c73755$7ec13e90$6401a8c0@Inspiron> When I was Student Government Association president at the Art Institute online, still attending, we try to get our institution to purchase an island but we didn't get very far. We researched formed committees for presentations but I'll have to check it we have an island but I don't think so. Thanks for letting us know about the new committee in charge of hopefully making second life accessible. Jeannie Novak, who helped start second life with her partners was a constructor of mine at my school currently just became The Game Art and Design program director so I'll contractor when I can hopefully to work with someone about this. Unless we can create a direct conversation with those people here in or group. Hopefully we can. I found second life very cumbersome not easy to navigate and the interface was very confusing to figure out not very intuitive. As a quadriplegic I got frustrated navigating with my character. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Roome, Thomas C Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:17 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about makingSecondLife accessible to the blind Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss the issues. Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability coordinator and I am trying to work with him. Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the lab. This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for all of us and stop pointing out what could happen. I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open source application then we can make a accessible client for all. I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem in detail? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank You, Tom Roome ATEC Teacher Assistant The University of Texas at Dallas E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible to the blind Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business" for some that even Reuters international news service is following it puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is not a game but an online world that allows users to create games...or businesses...or classes... And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory. Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at whatever point in time. The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books for some time in the US (unless/until overturned). Michelle >Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do need to keep >in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a simulation instead of a >game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine). While this may seem >like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation discussion), it can >make all the difference in the world - legally. > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM >Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >accessible to the blind > > >> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as I'm about to guest >> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova. >> >> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was bound to happen >> to online games eventually, especially since they are being used in >> classrooms. >> >> Michelle >> >>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800 >>>From: "Eelke Folmer" >>>To: "d. michelle hinn" , >>> "Richard Tol van" >>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife >>>accessible to the blind >>> >>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list but it wasn't >>>featured in today's >>>mail. >>> >>>cheers Eelke >>> >>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>From: Eelke Folmer >>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM >>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife accessible >>>to the blind >>>To: games_access at igda.org >>> >>> >>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_li fe_class_action.html?mode=full &hilite=13287#CM13287 >>> >>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the subject matter >>>(especially with regard to the class action suit): >>> >>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the >>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next? Should they sue the >>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that verbally describe >>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows only work for >>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right" >>> >>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder linden labs) >>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C >>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open >>>source so people can write their own viewers which support alternative >>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers. However I believe >>>this will only work if accessibility features are supported on the >>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in >>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding meta information to >>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/) >>> >>>~ Eelke >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >>> >>> >>>-- >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 15898 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Sat Jan 13 15:49:53 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:49:53 -0500 Subject: [games_access] I need your help In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykACIA References: <20070110065654.65DE5AE8A@mailwash7.pair.com> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykACIA Message-ID: <000501c73754$6181de30$6401a8c0@Inspiron> I agree with Tim that those point he suggested our definitely crucial to target any presentation subject. What I've learned for presentations works. Know who your audience is. Research and develop interesting topics. Know your time limits. Keep it interesting and stay confident. I usually start with a great eye-catching topic of interest and conclude with the same. As for research on definitely whatever your interest is you should be able to fight a lot to help with us especially in the forum already many great discoveries and subject topics going on there. Located at www.game-accessibility.com I hope this helps let me know if you need some more help. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Tim Chase Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:57 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] I need your help > I haven't posted here in some time but I need your help. > I posted the fallowing on my site tonight: Heh, the definition of "fallowing" (yes, I know you likely meant "following", but it was kinda funny in my weird mind) is: 1. To plow (land) without seeding it afterward. 2. To plow and till (land), especially to eradicate or reduce weeds. Sounds sorta like what you wanted to do...plow the idea to reduce weeds :) > "I may be getting a chance to speak about Accessible Gaming at a function in > my area. Well, from the list's discussions about prep for IGDA presentations, there's clearly enough for half-day and full-day sessions, so 20 minutes should be a cakewalk. The hard part might be winnowing it *down* to 20 minutes. :) Is there a particular subset of accessibility you intend to address? I.e. just visual impairments? Just hearing impairments? Mobility issues? Learning/cognitive issues? Or do you plan to try and address them all? Oh, and what sort of organization is it (what's the target audience)? Are they existing game developers? Are they management-types? Are they accessibility advocates that know nothing about the gaming field? Okay, so it's a lot of questions, but there are a lot of directions you could go with it. -tim _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From agdev at thechases.com Mon Jan 15 10:20:00 2007 From: agdev at thechases.com (Tim Chase) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:20:00 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Phys. Therapy & Tetris? Message-ID: <45AB9BA0.2000203@thechases.com> Playing Johnny Appleseed again, I came across this link today: tetrisweightlifting.com While not exactly one-switch, it's two-lever/pulley which could have uses in PT training. Similarly, it could be adapted to a one-dial (or sip+puff) version of tetris. Just another of those odd alternagaming links that might interest folks on the list. -tim From richard at audiogames.net Mon Jan 15 13:26:35 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:26:35 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audio impression) Message-ID: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi Folks! Development on Audio Game Maker is still going on. Due to time constraints we fear that we will have very little to no time available for extensive testing. We would therefore like to call the release on February 1st 2007 a b?ta-release. This means that Audio Game Maker is still released Februari 1st but it may still contain some bugs and may not feature some specific functionalities. We will keep you updated! On a slightly more positive note, click the following link to download an mp3 preview of what Audio Game Maker will approximately sound like: http://www.audiogamemaker.com/downloads/audiogamemakerpreview1.mp3 In this preview you will first hear how a new world is selected and how a new player object is added to this world. After that you will hear how a property (in this case the y-property of the player) is set to 1. You will then hear a Portal Object being built at some distance from the Player Object (the Builder moves away from the Player Object). The Audio Environment is then temporarily exited to create a new World. In the World Settings Menu the acoustics of this second world is then set to "cathedral". Then you will hear how the Worldsound and the Moodsound for this world is set. After that a new player and another portal are added to the second world (you will then hear the builder turn 360 degrees in front of the player object). Then we return to the first world and set the properties of Portal 1 so that it links to the portal in world 2. Please note that this is only a preview to give you a first impression of Audio Game Maker. Many sounds are still missing and this is *not* the final soundmix. Greets, Richard http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.audiogames.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colven at ace-centre.org.uk Tue Jan 16 06:12:17 2007 From: colven at ace-centre.org.uk (David Colven) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:12:17 +0000 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live In-Reply-To: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200> Hi Been rather busy so only lurking now and then but I thought you may be interested in the following news item. GameOn! The beta version of the GameOn! website, www.gameonbeta.org.uk, was launched at the beginning of January 2007. It's a website from which information about Windows-based games software is available. The idea behind the site is to enable people with physical difficulties to be able to search for the games that they can play by clicking on the type of control device(s) they use. At the moment, there are a comparatively small number of games on the site but, up until this point, our main focus has been to focus on developing the actual structure of the website. We feel that now is a good time to let people have a look at our work so far and to invite their comments on the style and structure of the database at this stage in the project. We will do our best to accommodate as many of your comments as possible before the full launch of the database during the spring. Once you have had a look at the site, please send whatever comments you would like to make on our work so far to Mick Donegan, GameOn! project coordinator - donegan at ace-centre.org.uk David David Colven, Technical Advisor The ACE Centre Advisory Trust 92 Windmill Road Headington Oxford OX3 7DR Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error. Thank you From richard at audiogames.net Tue Jan 16 07:35:00 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:35:00 +0100 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200> Message-ID: <002d01c7396a$bd886e20$6502a8c0@Lappie> Hi David, Just had a glance and it looks impressive! Can I already put a (temporary) link up at www.game-accessibility.com or would you prefer me to wait until the final version of the website is launched? And thanks for adding www.audiogames.net to http://www.gameonbeta.org.uk/Links/gamessites.htm ! May I suggest http://www.game-accessibility.com and http://www.igda.org/accessibility as links under "Other useful websites"? Good luck with the project! Anxious to know how the reactions will be. Greets, Richard http://www.accessibility.nl http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.game-accessibility.com http://www.audiogames.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Colven" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live > Hi > > Been rather busy so only lurking now and then but I thought you may be > interested in the following news item. > > GameOn! > > The beta version of the GameOn! website, > www.gameonbeta.org.uk, was launched at the > beginning of January 2007. It's a website from which information about > Windows-based games software is available. The idea behind the site is to > enable people with physical difficulties to be able to search for the > games > that they can play by clicking on the type of control device(s) they use. > > At the moment, there are a comparatively small number of games on the site > but, up until this point, our main focus has been to focus on developing > the actual structure of the website. We feel that now is a good time to > let > people have a look at our work so far and to invite their comments on the > style and structure of the database at this stage in the project. We will > do our best to accommodate as many of your comments as possible before the > full launch of the database during the spring. Once you have had a look at > the site, please send whatever comments you would like to make on our work > so far to Mick Donegan, > GameOn! > project coordinator - > donegan at ace-centre.org.uk > > David > > > David Colven, Technical Advisor > > The ACE Centre Advisory Trust > 92 Windmill Road > Headington > Oxford OX3 7DR > > Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 > 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 > > DISCLAIMER: > The information in this message is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this > message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended > recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any > action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may > be > unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this > message in error. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From colven at ace-centre.org.uk Tue Jan 16 08:15:44 2007 From: colven at ace-centre.org.uk (David Colven) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:15:44 +0000 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live In-Reply-To: <002d01c7396a$bd886e20$6502a8c0@Lappie> References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200> <002d01c7396a$bd886e20$6502a8c0@Lappie> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20070116131436.04d4f400@192.168.100.200> Have passed this on the Mick Donegan (donegan at ace-centre.org.uk) who is in charge of the project. I'm sure this will be fine tho'. David At 12:35 16/01/07, you wrote: >Just had a glance and it looks impressive! Can I already put a (temporary) >link up at www.game-accessibility.com or would you prefer me to wait until >the final version of the website is launched? David Colven, Technical Advisor The ACE Centre Advisory Trust 92 Windmill Road Headington Oxford OX3 7DR Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error. Thank you From richard at audiogames.net Tue Jan 16 08:29:29 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:29:29 +0100 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje><6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200><002d01c7396a$bd886e20$6502a8c0@Lappie> <6.0.3.0.2.20070116131436.04d4f400@192.168.100.200> Message-ID: <001301c73972$597cbaf0$6502a8c0@Lappie> Thanks! I'll wait for your reply before a link up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Colven" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live > Have passed this on the Mick Donegan (donegan at ace-centre.org.uk) who is in > charge of the project. I'm sure this will be fine tho'. > > David > > At 12:35 16/01/07, you wrote: >>Just had a glance and it looks impressive! Can I already put a (temporary) >>link up at www.game-accessibility.com or would you prefer me to wait until >>the final version of the website is launched? > > > David Colven, Technical Advisor > > The ACE Centre Advisory Trust > 92 Windmill Road > Headington > Oxford OX3 7DR > > Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 > 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 > > DISCLAIMER: > The information in this message is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this > message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended > recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any > action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may > be > unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this > message in error. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Jan 16 12:33:20 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:33:20 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audioimpression) In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEKCIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEKCIA Message-ID: <003501c73994$6bceb380$6401a8c0@Inspiron> This is so amazing thank you for sharing this. Is this a way for the visually impaired to create video games that other visually impaired players can play together it will be very unique I am guessing? You cannot think in terms of visual 3-D graphics when you're listening to this because I start thinking how will the player remember where they placed all these worlds and if they want to go back and change it how do they do that and what about customizing different kind of games it seems like right now it's only capable of creating one type of game? This is really cool. Few things to consider a note that will make it better is remembering keeping a list of your located characters and rooms and things like that. Because if you cannot see a drawing of a layout of your rooms of buildings look like or the location of things I imagine it would all have to be memory or some sort of verbal description to determine the difference between each world you create because thinking about that to me it seems like they would all be the same exact worlds just different placement of characters. Have you figured out a way how it creates personal different games for each kind of game or are they all the same game just different placements. This would be something excellent to demonstrate at GDC I bet developers would love to see stuff like this. How will we get a chance to try it the software? For myself I use voice dictation would there be any sort of visual 3-D package set up like my to or studio Max to create these worlds for people with visual impairments gamers or what I have to type on the keyboard would be one of my concerns if I wanted to use something like this in the future as a developer I still need to be able to use it. I don't voice dictate visual creation and studio Max or via the use of the puff as my mouse I'm hoping he'll have that feature as well so others can use this platform to create worlds in their games I'm hoping your program already sets up the kind of mechanics that developer already needs so plopping these things in their games would already be accessible. A lot to think about a lot of potential I hope it could be used side-by-side with Maya and studio Max have you thought about that or how would that even be possible? Robert www.RobertFlorio.com _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 1:27 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audioimpression) Hi Folks! Development on Audio Game Maker is still going on. Due to time constraints we fear that we will have very little to no time available for extensive testing. We would therefore like to call the release on February 1st 2007 a b?ta-release. This means that Audio Game Maker is still released Februari 1st but it may still contain some bugs and may not feature some specific functionalities. We will keep you updated! On a slightly more positive note, click the following link to download an mp3 preview of what Audio Game Maker will approximately sound like: http://www.audiogamemaker.com/downloads/audiogamemakerpreview1.mp3 In this preview you will first hear how a new world is selected and how a new player object is added to this world. After that you will hear how a property (in this case the y-property of the player) is set to 1. You will then hear a Portal Object being built at some distance from the Player Object (the Builder moves away from the Player Object). The Audio Environment is then temporarily exited to create a new World. In the World Settings Menu the acoustics of this second world is then set to ?cathedral?. Then you will hear how the Worldsound and the Moodsound for this world is set. After that a new player and another portal are added to the second world (you will then hear the builder turn 360 degrees in front of the player object). Then we return to the first world and set the properties of Portal 1 so that it links to the portal in world 2. Please note that this is only a preview to give you a first impression of Audio Game Maker. Many sounds are still missing and this is *not* the final soundmix. Greets, Richard http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.audiogames.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Jan 16 12:54:37 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:54:37 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audioimpression) In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEKCIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEKCIA Message-ID: <003f01c73997$64d6eb80$6401a8c0@Inspiron> Thanks for letting us know about your game on project it looks very promising. I started a process like this myself but it doesn't get very involved I just started reviewing games I can play with my QuadController you can look, http://www.quadcontrol.com/ to see the device. I'd love to be a part of your web site when of your advisers reviewers if you would allow me to be so I can contribute my own reviews as a play games and perhaps your web site could link to my page would be very grateful and better process of spreading out to more people. I've been with the igda special interest group here with a bunch of my friends for a couple years now will be one of the judges at our accessibility idle also here this year GDC and was there last year as a GDC scholarship student winner. Currently I'm working for a bachelor's degree in game art and design should graduate in the fall of 2007. I am a quadriplegic 24 years old 14 years old when I had a spinal cord injury no withdrawals is from the chest film wants to make videogames for people like myself not just review but actually get games produced that will actually be fully functional not just for physically impaired gamers but for everyone. I'm almost there working on concepts every day but studying so much thanks for the opportunity I look forward to hearing from you. Please feel free to look at my web site learn about me and see my progress and art that I create with my mouth. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 1:27 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audioimpression) Hi Folks! Development on Audio Game Maker is still going on. Due to time constraints we fear that we will have very little to no time available for extensive testing. We would therefore like to call the release on February 1st 2007 a b?ta-release. This means that Audio Game Maker is still released Februari 1st but it may still contain some bugs and may not feature some specific functionalities. We will keep you updated! On a slightly more positive note, click the following link to download an mp3 preview of what Audio Game Maker will approximately sound like: http://www.audiogamemaker.com/downloads/audiogamemakerpreview1.mp3 In this preview you will first hear how a new world is selected and how a new player object is added to this world. After that you will hear how a property (in this case the y-property of the player) is set to 1. You will then hear a Portal Object being built at some distance from the Player Object (the Builder moves away from the Player Object). The Audio Environment is then temporarily exited to create a new World. In the World Settings Menu the acoustics of this second world is then set to ?cathedral?. Then you will hear how the Worldsound and the Moodsound for this world is set. After that a new player and another portal are added to the second world (you will then hear the builder turn 360 degrees in front of the player object). Then we return to the first world and set the properties of Portal 1 so that it links to the portal in world 2. Please note that this is only a preview to give you a first impression of Audio Game Maker. Many sounds are still missing and this is *not* the final soundmix. Greets, Richard http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.audiogames.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Jan 16 12:55:37 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:55:37 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkLyIA References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje><6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkLyIA Message-ID: <004401c73997$888b1650$6401a8c0@Inspiron> After you let Richard know I would also like to link to your page from my page where I also have reviews for the QuadController? Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:35 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live Hi David, Just had a glance and it looks impressive! Can I already put a (temporary) link up at www.game-accessibility.com or would you prefer me to wait until the final version of the website is launched? And thanks for adding www.audiogames.net to http://www.gameonbeta.org.uk/Links/gamessites.htm ! May I suggest http://www.game-accessibility.com and http://www.igda.org/accessibility as links under "Other useful websites"? Good luck with the project! Anxious to know how the reactions will be. Greets, Richard http://www.accessibility.nl http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.game-accessibility.com http://www.audiogames.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Colven" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live > Hi > > Been rather busy so only lurking now and then but I thought you may be > interested in the following news item. > > GameOn! > > The beta version of the GameOn! website, > www.gameonbeta.org.uk, was launched at the > beginning of January 2007. It's a website from which information about > Windows-based games software is available. The idea behind the site is to > enable people with physical difficulties to be able to search for the > games > that they can play by clicking on the type of control device(s) they use. > > At the moment, there are a comparatively small number of games on the site > but, up until this point, our main focus has been to focus on developing > the actual structure of the website. We feel that now is a good time to > let > people have a look at our work so far and to invite their comments on the > style and structure of the database at this stage in the project. We will > do our best to accommodate as many of your comments as possible before the > full launch of the database during the spring. Once you have had a look at > the site, please send whatever comments you would like to make on our work > so far to Mick Donegan, > GameOn! > project coordinator - > donegan at ace-centre.org.uk > > David > > > David Colven, Technical Advisor > > The ACE Centre Advisory Trust > 92 Windmill Road > Headington > Oxford OX3 7DR > > Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 > 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 > > DISCLAIMER: > The information in this message is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this > message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended > recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any > action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may > be > unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this > message in error. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Jan 16 12:56:15 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:56:15 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes firstaudioimpression) References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEKCIA <003501c73994$6bceb380$6401a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <010601c73997$9dd586d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, Yep, the goal is to have the visually impaired community to create their own games. And not just one type of game, but all sorts of games. So it's not a simple level-editor, you can really build different types of games (racing games, shooters, etc.). Through a menu you can simply jump from world to world (which can be anything from a simple room in a level to a complete planet - what you want), and within a world, there's a shortcut-key which allows you to jump from building-block to building block. Audio Game Maker uses game building blocks to allow users to create different games. See the manual about the building blocks and how Audio Game Maker works: http://www.audiogamemaker.com/manual/ (please not this is not up to date yet)). We did want to add an internal notepad so that people could make notes while building games, but we decided the standard Windows-notepad may be sufficiant enough (although you do need to jump between programs). Of course I'd like to show Audio Game Maker at GDC :):):) We have to still finish the beta version of course ;) - planning is Februari 1st. Concerning accessibility: given the timescale, the goals of the project and budget, we didn't take physical disabilities into account in the design of Audio Game Maker. So you do need to use a keyboard (although a virtual keybaord might work just as well?) to use Audio Game Maker. A mouse is not needed. Audio game maker only allows you to create audio games that can be controlled only through the keyboard too. Thanks for your enthousiasm. Looking forward to GDC! Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Florio To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes firstaudioimpression) This is so amazing thank you for sharing this. Is this a way for the visually impaired to create video games that other visually impaired players can play together it will be very unique I am guessing? You cannot think in terms of visual 3-D graphics when you're listening to this because I start thinking how will the player remember where they placed all these worlds and if they want to go back and change it how do they do that and what about customizing different kind of games it seems like right now it's only capable of creating one type of game? This is really cool. Few things to consider a note that will make it better is remembering keeping a list of your located characters and rooms and things like that. Because if you cannot see a drawing of a layout of your rooms of buildings look like or the location of things I imagine it would all have to be memory or some sort of verbal description to determine the difference between each world you create because thinking about that to me it seems like they would all be the same exact worlds just different placement of characters. Have you figured out a way how it creates personal different games for each kind of game or are they all the same game just different placements. This would be something excellent to demonstrate at GDC I bet developers would love to see stuff like this. How will we get a chance to try it the software? For myself I use voice dictation would there be any sort of visual 3-D package set up like my to or studio Max to create these worlds for people with visual impairments gamers or what I have to type on the keyboard would be one of my concerns if I wanted to use something like this in the future as a developer I still need to be able to use it. I don't voice dictate visual creation and studio Max or via the use of the puff as my mouse I'm hoping he'll have that feature as well so others can use this platform to create worlds in their games I'm hoping your program already sets up the kind of mechanics that developer already needs so plopping these things in their games would already be accessible. A lot to think about a lot of potential I hope it could be used side-by-side with Maya and studio Max have you thought about that or how would that even be possible? Robert www.RobertFlorio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 1:27 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audioimpression) Hi Folks! Development on Audio Game Maker is still going on. Due to time constraints we fear that we will have very little to no time available for extensive testing. We would therefore like to call the release on February 1st 2007 a b?ta-release. This means that Audio Game Maker is still released Februari 1st but it may still contain some bugs and may not feature some specific functionalities. We will keep you updated! On a slightly more positive note, click the following link to download an mp3 preview of what Audio Game Maker will approximately sound like: http://www.audiogamemaker.com/downloads/audiogamemakerpreview1.mp3 In this preview you will first hear how a new world is selected and how a new player object is added to this world. After that you will hear how a property (in this case the y-property of the player) is set to 1. You will then hear a Portal Object being built at some distance from the Player Object (the Builder moves away from the Player Object). The Audio Environment is then temporarily exited to create a new World. In the World Settings Menu the acoustics of this second world is then set to "cathedral". Then you will hear how the Worldsound and the Moodsound for this world is set. After that a new player and another portal are added to the second world (you will then hear the builder turn 360 degrees in front of the player object). Then we return to the first world and set the properties of Portal 1 so that it links to the portal in world 2. Please note that this is only a preview to give you a first impression of Audio Game Maker. Many sounds are still missing and this is *not* the final soundmix. Greets, Richard http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.audiogames.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 14:54:05 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:54:05 -0800 Subject: [games_access] mail stuck in mailbox Message-ID: <836db6300701161154x647e083lc24906bfa0850033@mail.gmail.com> Hi this old mail of mine was still stuck in my mailbox or rejected since my gmail adress was rejected on the mailinglist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Unfortunately I can't come on the third. One of my friends (Peter Stock) from canada who got nominated for two categories of the IGF competition http://www.igf.com/2007finalistswinners.html with his game armadillorun (I did all the usability testing Yay) will fly to reno on the friday before that and we are gonna do some skiing in lake tahoe and then drive to SF on sunday or monday, I'll share a hotel room with him to keep costs low, he's an indie game developer living on a small budget himself. I have to fund this trip myself since I ran out of research money prematurely. ;-( No final date has been set for the accessibility idol has there? I checked the webpage but there is no date set. Would it be an idea to forward the IGDA meeting during the week? Or I guess the weekend one is going to be used to prepare people for the accessibility idol ? I'd like to discuss working on a research proposal with people that are interested during that week. I'll be bringing a computer with my adaptive assistance Halflife 2 mod (too bad gears of war is not open source ;-( Some other issues: Motion sickness discussion: I get motion sick when playing katamari too ;-( so its not only FPS unfortunately. I was at the desert research institute (DRI) the other day and I tried out their new cave. I'm setting up collaborations with researchers there in serious games. They had some awesome 3d games which makes even Wii sports look old. A couple of researchers there told me that the NSF director who they know, told them that they would welcome propsosals that research motions sickness & virtual reality. A lot of VR systems are hard to use since it makes people sick. I flied around in a game where I had to shoot some cones (which was incredibly fun & realistic) it also used some sort of wii mote. But i got sick after 4 minutes of playing. I might work together with them on that and see how it affects gameing too. Patterns. (Not related to games) I have been talking to some people from the Yahoo pattern library (http://developer.yahoo.com) and they have expressed interest in describing web accessibility requirements using interaction design patterns. Cheers Eelke -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jan 16 15:32:02 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:32:02 -0000 Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live References: <007801c738d2$b0cb4e70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <6.0.3.0.2.20070116111049.0465f760@192.168.100.200> Message-ID: <024b01c739ad$613aaff0$0202a8c0@OneSwitch> This is great. There is no centralised resource for accessible game reviews, so this is a very exciting project. Of course there are reviews on niche sites, such as Deaf Gamers and AudioGames.net (as fantastic as those are), so it would be great to tie up with these if possible. It would be especially good to get Deaf Gamers interested if possible, as they seem to be a bit closed off from the broad accessible gaming community in my view. I'd be happy to put some reviews your way, when I get time. I'd really recommend beefing up the size of the images for reviews. Barrie Ellis www.OneSwitch.org.uk http://switchgaming.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Colven" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:12 AM Subject: [games_access] GameOn! Website goes live > Hi > > Been rather busy so only lurking now and then but I thought you may be > interested in the following news item. > > GameOn! > > The beta version of the GameOn! website, > www.gameonbeta.org.uk, was launched at the > beginning of January 2007. It's a website from which information about > Windows-based games software is available. The idea behind the site is to > enable people with physical difficulties to be able to search for the > games > that they can play by clicking on the type of control device(s) they use. > > At the moment, there are a comparatively small number of games on the site > but, up until this point, our main focus has been to focus on developing > the actual structure of the website. We feel that now is a good time to > let > people have a look at our work so far and to invite their comments on the > style and structure of the database at this stage in the project. We will > do our best to accommodate as many of your comments as possible before the > full launch of the database during the spring. Once you have had a look at > the site, please send whatever comments you would like to make on our work > so far to Mick Donegan, > GameOn! > project coordinator - > donegan at ace-centre.org.uk > > David > > > David Colven, Technical Advisor > > The ACE Centre Advisory Trust > 92 Windmill Road > Headington > Oxford OX3 7DR > > Web site at www.ace-centre.org.uk something new every week Tel +44 (0)1865 > 759813 Fax +44 (0)1865 759810 > > DISCLAIMER: > The information in this message is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this > message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended > recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any > action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may > be > unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this > message in error. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Thu Jan 25 16:33:00 2007 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (Jonathan Chetwynd) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:33:00 +0000 Subject: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Message-ID: BBC develops accessible educational games http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html "The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" no less... regards Jonathan Chetwynd From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 25 16:45:00 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:45:00 -0600 Subject: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle >BBC develops accessible educational games > >http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > >"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > >no less... > >regards > >Jonathan Chetwynd > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Thu Jan 25 18:40:57 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:40:57 -0500 Subject: [games_access] to elka!! In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkmCIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkmCIA Message-ID: <002101c740da$442e4640$6401a8c0@Inspiron> Elka I just got a reply on the mailing list from you can you send it again please have my computer e-mail automatically got rid of it but I am not sure why. I think it was a response to my accessibility idle physical impairments needs and desires. Robert Florio -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:45 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle >BBC develops accessible educational games > >http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > >"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > >no less... > >regards > >Jonathan Chetwynd > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Thu Jan 25 22:59:43 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:59:43 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to the ground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) References: Message-ID: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned to the ground, see: http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28video%29.html (in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to watch pictures) http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id=778544689 (more pics) http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the fire) Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. We will keep you updated. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle >BBC develops accessible educational games > >http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > >"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > >no less... > >regards > >Jonathan Chetwynd > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Fri Jan 26 04:24:01 2007 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (Jonathan Chetwynd) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:24:01 +0000 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to the ground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: How awful (:" the sky fell on my head Jonathan Chetwynd On 26 Jan 2007, at 03:59, AudioGames.net wrote: Hi, For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned to the ground, see: http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/ Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28video%29.html (in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to watch pictures) http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html? menu=zoekitem&id=778544689 (more pics) http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the fire) Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. We will keep you updated. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle > BBC develops accessible educational games > > http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > > "The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the > Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > > no less... > > regards > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 26 10:49:26 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:49:26 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to the ground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Oh my god...I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm glad no one was hurt!! Michelle >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28video%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id=778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 11:44:28 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:44:28 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA Message-ID: <004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hi, For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned to the ground, see: http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28vi deo%29.html (in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to watch pictures) http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id= 778544689 (more pics) http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the fire) Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. We will keep you updated. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle >BBC develops accessible educational games > >http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > >"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > >no less... > >regards > >Jonathan Chetwynd > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 11:46:24 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:46:24 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Extra Bartimeus Accessibility Newletter References: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <002201c74169$8404b120$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi Folks, Just thought I'd forward this here too...: *** Accessibility offices destroyed by fire Last wednesdaynight there has been a huge fire at Accessibility Foundation. All offices are distroyed. The part of the building that was saved has severe water and smoke damage. The fire started around 23:00 hours. The fire brigade asked for the assistance of other brigades in the region. The cause of the fire is still under investigation. If everything goes according to plan, this monday Accessibility wil be operational from a Bartimeus building in the city of Utrecht. As soon as our new contact information is available, we will publish it on our website. Today and probably next week our service and reachability will not be at the usualy level. We ask for your understanding. For questions about the above please use our E-mail: info*accessibility.nl. If you want to contact us by phone you can find our contact information on our website: http://www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/contact On behalf of the team of Accessibility.nl, Eric Velleman Ron Beenen More information and pictures (in dutch): http://www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/nieuws?id=136 *** Greets, Richard http://www.audiogames.net http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.game-accessibility.com From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 11:59:42 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:59:42 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA <004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <003901c7416b$5f8ada70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, Thanks for all your concern. I guess it's not that big of a disaster really. Looking on thr bright side: the building would be replaced in a few years or so anyway, we have pretty much got backups of everything and the new office in Utrecht on monday which is much more convenient for me (travelwise). Well, ok, I first have to see what it will be like but I guess it's better than our previous (old school) office ;) And it takes more than a lousy fire to hurt my spirits ;) Let me have it... ;) Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Florio" To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hi, For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned to the ground, see: http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28vi deo%29.html (in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to watch pictures) http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id= 778544689 (more pics) http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the fire) Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. We will keep you updated. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention about the SIG helping too but they also forgot the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing that and where it would have been appropriate to mention the crossover the SIG and gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main advising. Oh well. It happens. Michelle >BBC develops accessible educational games > >http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html > >"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" > >no less... > >regards > >Jonathan Chetwynd > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 12:00:29 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:00:29 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Roberts design challenges. Thank you. In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxknyIA References: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxknyIA Message-ID: <004f01c7416b$7d2a2a90$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Think you've Ried and Elka for the comments earlier about the breakdown of the things that I go through and wish I could have been games for gamers with physical impairments. What do we do now with this isn't something we need to meet on to come up with guidelines for the designers? I totally like the idea Reid had how the auto aiming feature somehow becomes a timing game where more sensitive parts of the body can be hit you just have to pull the trigger when the auto aim is near a certain part of that body part. Elka brings up a good point about enemies approaching from behind and when you are fleeing have the preset evasive maneuvers start kicking and automatically sort of an assistive movement device. I really like that and I really appreciate the idea of when enemies are coming from behind your character automatically goes into a different mood of detecting these enemies positioning your camera view and character position which would be my admission to the discussion because camera movements are already so darned cool for games with me having to switch over different control settings on the controller. Thank you. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 12:02:34 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:02:34 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA <004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <004c01c7416b$c646bfe0$6402a8c0@Delletje> ps: this was my office: http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php?showimage=IMG_0623.jpg&screenwidth=1280 ... which was they only one that didn't burn... the fire department let me in and my backup portabel HD was still intact, as well as much paper work (including the KLM vouchers that we got after last the GDC-tetour-trip-to-Costa-Rica ;) I guess we're fine ;) From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 26 12:01:33 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:01:33 -0600 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: <004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA <004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: It's my understanding that they are still investigating the cause -- no matter what the cause ends up being...this totally sucks. Richard and Sander -- please let me know if there's anything we/I can do while you guys are regrouping! Michelle >I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like >this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. > >Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? > >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to >theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28vi >deo%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id= >778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker > >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup > >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 12:12:56 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:12:56 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <006a01c7416d$39559820$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, The cause might be a couple of children playing with fire in our bicycle shed... thanks but I guess there's nothing you can do, only be your cheery self at GDC07 ;) ! R ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) It's my understanding that they are still investigating the cause -- no matter what the cause ends up being...this totally sucks. Richard and Sander -- please let me know if there's anything we/I can do while you guys are regrouping! Michelle >I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like >this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. > >Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? > >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to >theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28vi >deo%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id= >778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game >Maker > >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete >backup > >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 12:14:16 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:14:16 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoiIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoiIA Message-ID: <005501c7416d$69d1db30$6601a8c0@Inspiron> I saw the picture of your office Richard that looks really terrible. Can always rebuild. For my documentary can I get please the following people's official titles and complete names how they would like it to appear on the documentary and any links you would like to pop up at the same time please? Michelle Hinn Richard Sanders Reid Thank you. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:03 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) ps: this was my office: http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php?showimage=IMG_0623.jpg&screenwid th=1280 ... which was they only one that didn't burn... the fire department let me in and my backup portabel HD was still intact, as well as much paper work (including the KLM vouchers that we got after last the GDC-tetour-trip-to-Costa-Rica ;) I guess we're fine ;) _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 12:15:52 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:15:52 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoyIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoyIA Message-ID: <005601c7416d$a30f7b50$6601a8c0@Inspiron> I can do that for sure and bring your cheery self also. By the way my mother and myself of course look forward to another great experience. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:13 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hi, The cause might be a couple of children playing with fire in our bicycle shed... thanks but I guess there's nothing you can do, only be your cheery self at GDC07 ;) ! R ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) It's my understanding that they are still investigating the cause -- no matter what the cause ends up being...this totally sucks. Richard and Sander -- please let me know if there's anything we/I can do while you guys are regrouping! Michelle >I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like >this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. > >Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? > >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to >theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28v i >deo%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id = >778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game >Maker > >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete >backup > >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 12:18:50 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:18:50 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron>AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoiIA <005501c7416d$69d1db30$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <008d01c7416e$0be34440$6402a8c0@Delletje> Richard Alexander van Tol, MA .... Richard Van Tol Game accessibility researcher, Audio Game designer, Doctoral Candidate Richard researches the accessibility of games for gamers with disabilities at the Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation (Netherlands). He has been active in the field of game accessibility since 2001, developing and researching blind-accessible games such as Drive - a racing game for the blind, and managing projects such as Game-Accessibility.com - a community website about accessible gaming and Audio Game Maker - a game development tool for the blind. Richard is co-founder of AudioGames.net, a community website for gamers and researchers that focuses on audio games (games that consist of sound only). Richard is also completing his doctorate at the University of Portsmouth (England), researching game audio design. He has an Audio Engineer diploma, a M.A. in Audio Design, and teaches game audio design at the Utrecht School of the Arts (Netherlands). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Florio" To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information >I saw the picture of your office Richard that looks really terrible. Can > always rebuild. > > For my documentary can I get please the following people's official titles > and complete names how they would like it to appear on the documentary and > any links you would like to pop up at the same time please? > > Michelle Hinn > > Richard > > Sanders > > Reid > > Thank you. > > Robert > www.RobertFlorio.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of AudioGames.net > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:03 PM > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation > burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > > ps: this was my office: > > http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php?showimage=IMG_0623.jpg&screenwid > th=1280 > > ... which was they only one that didn't burn... the fire department let me > in and my backup portabel HD was still intact, as well as much paper work > (including the KLM vouchers that we got after last the > GDC-tetour-trip-to-Costa-Rica ;) > > I guess we're fine ;) > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jan 26 12:20:06 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:20:06 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron>AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoyIA <005601c7416d$a30f7b50$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <009201c7416e$39919a40$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hihi... I was looking forward to your mother as well, Robert ;) ... And is... (err...whathername)... who was with you at GDC06 coming as well... ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Florio" To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) I can do that for sure and bring your cheery self also. By the way my mother and myself of course look forward to another great experience. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:13 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hi, The cause might be a couple of children playing with fire in our bicycle shed... thanks but I guess there's nothing you can do, only be your cheery self at GDC07 ;) ! R ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) It's my understanding that they are still investigating the cause -- no matter what the cause ends up being...this totally sucks. Richard and Sander -- please let me know if there's anything we/I can do while you guys are regrouping! Michelle >I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like >this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. > >Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? > >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to >theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28v i >deo%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id = >778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game >Maker > >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete >backup > >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 13:00:08 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:00:08 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyEoyIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron>AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoiIA<005501c7416d$69d1db30$6601a8c0@Inspiron> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyEoyIA Message-ID: <005701c74173$d2919830$6601a8c0@Inspiron> Thank you Richard I got it. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:19 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information Richard Alexander van Tol, MA .... Richard Van Tol Game accessibility researcher, Audio Game designer, Doctoral Candidate Richard researches the accessibility of games for gamers with disabilities at the Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation (Netherlands). He has been active in the field of game accessibility since 2001, developing and researching blind-accessible games such as Drive - a racing game for the blind, and managing projects such as Game-Accessibility.com - a community website about accessible gaming and Audio Game Maker - a game development tool for the blind. Richard is co-founder of AudioGames.net, a community website for gamers and researchers that focuses on audio games (games that consist of sound only). Richard is also completing his doctorate at the University of Portsmouth (England), researching game audio design. He has an Audio Engineer diploma, a M.A. in Audio Design, and teaches game audio design at the Utrecht School of the Arts (Netherlands). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Florio" To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Roberts documentary need people information >I saw the picture of your office Richard that looks really terrible. Can > always rebuild. > > For my documentary can I get please the following people's official titles > and complete names how they would like it to appear on the documentary and > any links you would like to pop up at the same time please? > > Michelle Hinn > > Richard > > Sanders > > Reid > > Thank you. > > Robert > www.RobertFlorio.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of AudioGames.net > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:03 PM > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation > burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > > ps: this was my office: > > http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php?showimage=IMG_0623.jpg&screenwid > th=1280 > > ... which was they only one that didn't burn... the fire department let me > in and my backup portabel HD was still intact, as well as much paper work > (including the KLM vouchers that we got after last the > GDC-tetour-trip-to-Costa-Rica ;) > > I guess we're fine ;) > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 26 13:04:22 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:04:22 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundationburnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEpCIA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykmiIA<004e01c74169$403316d0$6601a8c0@Inspiron>AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEoyIA<005601c7416d$a30f7b50$6601a8c0@Inspiron> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEpCIA Message-ID: <005801c74174$69ed0020$6601a8c0@Inspiron> The nurse that was with me last year cannot make it this year so I have a new nurse who is a really good person we get along very well coming with me. Her name is Michelle Sanchez. I told her all about all of you and she's looking forward to it and she's such a good sport for coming with me the whole week. Since it is going to be my birthday March 2 and I will arrive March 3 of those hoping we could all do something together I think it would be really nice perhaps we could meet someplace on the Pacific Ocean or something I know I'm going to get a ride see it or whatever. I'll be 25 years old and such a blessing to be in that environment and you guys as friends. My flight leaves 6 a.m. Eastern time so I'll be so tired. My mother and I laugh so much when we think of you and Sander she thinks you guys are such a delight and everyone was just thought you guys truly make the trip more delightful. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:20 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundationburnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hihi... I was looking forward to your mother as well, Robert ;) ... And is... (err...whathername)... who was with you at GDC06 coming as well... ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Florio" To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burnedtotheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) I can do that for sure and bring your cheery self also. By the way my mother and myself of course look forward to another great experience. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:13 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned totheground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) Hi, The cause might be a couple of children playing with fire in our bicycle shed... thanks but I guess there's nothing you can do, only be your cheery self at GDC07 ;) ! R ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) It's my understanding that they are still investigating the cause -- no matter what the cause ends up being...this totally sucks. Richard and Sander -- please let me know if there's anything we/I can do while you guys are regrouping! Michelle >I certainly hope you all do not let this hurt your spirits something like >this I can imagine is really hard deal with. Please keep us updated. > >Does anyone know the cause on the fire or what's going on? > >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:00 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] Building Accessibility foundation burned to >theground (was: BBC develops accessible educational games) > >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28v i >deo%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id = >778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game >Maker > >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete >backup > >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From lynnvm at carolina.rr.com Fri Jan 26 22:06:12 2007 From: lynnvm at carolina.rr.com (lynnvm at carolina.rr.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:06:12 -0500 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c741c0$1a367010$6601a8c0@HOME> I am so sorry about the fire! Lynn Marentette TechPsych Interactive Multimedia Technology -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of games_access-request at igda.org Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:00 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 25 Send games_access mailing list submissions to games_access at igda.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to games_access-request at igda.org You can reach the person managing the list at games_access-owner at igda.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Extra Bartimeus Accessibility Newletter (AudioGames.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:46:24 +0100 From: "AudioGames.net" Subject: [games_access] Extra Bartimeus Accessibility Newletter To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Message-ID: <002201c74169$8404b120$6402a8c0 at Delletje> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Folks, Just thought I'd forward this here too...: *** Accessibility offices destroyed by fire Last wednesdaynight there has been a huge fire at Accessibility Foundation. All offices are distroyed. The part of the building that was saved has severe water and smoke damage. The fire started around 23:00 hours. The fire brigade asked for the assistance of other brigades in the region. The cause of the fire is still under investigation. If everything goes according to plan, this monday Accessibility wil be operational from a Bartimeus building in the city of Utrecht. As soon as our new contact information is available, we will publish it on our website. Today and probably next week our service and reachability will not be at the usualy level. We ask for your understanding. For questions about the above please use our E-mail: info*accessibility.nl. If you want to contact us by phone you can find our contact information on our website: http://www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/contact On behalf of the team of Accessibility.nl, Eric Velleman Ron Beenen More information and pictures (in dutch): http://www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/nieuws?id=136 *** Greets, Richard http://www.audiogames.net http://www.audiogamemaker.com http://www.game-accessibility.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 25 ******************************************** From jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk Sun Jan 28 15:12:22 2007 From: jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk (Jonathan Hassell) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:12:22 -0000 Subject: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Message-ID: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B2900F@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Hi everyone, Hope you're all doing well - sorry that I'm not able to contribute to your emails too often... And sorry that there was no mention of the SIG or gamesaccessibility.com in the e-Access bulletin article. The reason is that I didn't see the article before it was published, so had no idea what was or wasn't in it. The article was taken from quotes from a demo I gave in London, so they were chosen by the journalist, not myself. There were quite a lot of things in the article that I'd have changed or corrected, if given the chance. It's a pity I didn't get that chance before publication... And, Richard, Sander - I'm gutted to hear about the fire at your offices. Especially as we had such a good meeting in them the day before. I don't know if there's anything we can do from England to help you sort things out other than to send our best wishes. But if we can help, please let me know. Rest assured everyone that I very much value every contribution that you've made to what we're trying to do at jam. The one part of e-Access bulletin's article which I liked most was them quoting me on how frustrating it is that we can't make our stuff available outside the UK at the moment. I'd love all of you guys outside the UK to have a chance to look at what we've been able to do so far, so if ever you're in the UK, give me a call and I'll give you a personal demo. My very best wishes Jonathan. Jonathan Hassell Accessibility Editor, BBC jam Rm 2318 | White City | 201 Wood Lane | London W12 7TR Landline: 020 8752 4271. Mobile: 07919 343686. jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Jan 28 16:41:36 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:41:36 -0600 Subject: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games In-Reply-To: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B2900F@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.u k> References: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B2900F@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.u k> Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, No worries -- I know how things go when you don't get to see the preview of an article before it goes to press. It's definitely not a big deal in my book -- it happens. It's just too bad when it does but the authors are so often dealing with work count issues that sometimes they can't even help but shorten things. Agreed -- what happened to the accessibility foundation is quite unbelievable -- it just doesn't seem fair when things like this happen. Also, if there's a demo or ppt that we can show at GDC of the jam stuff, even if we can't make it fully available, to show what you're doing, please let me know and we can include it in the accessibility arcade session. Michelle >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C74318.9EA57BA7" > >Hi everyone, > >Hope you're all doing well - sorry that I'm not >able to contribute to your emails too often? > >And sorry that there was no mention of the SIG >or gamesaccessibility.com in the e-Access >bulletin article. The reason is that I didn't >see the article before it was published, so had >no idea what was or wasn't in it. The article >was taken from quotes from a demo I gave in >London, so they were chosen by the journalist, >not myself. There were quite a lot of things in >the article that I'd have changed or corrected, >if given the chance. It's a pity I didn't get >that chance before publication? > >And, Richard, Sander - I'm gutted to hear about >the fire at your offices. Especially as we had >such a good meeting in them the day before. I >don't know if there's anything we can do from >England to help you sort things out other than >to send our best wishes. But if we can help, >please let me know. > >Rest assured everyone that I very much value >every contribution that you've made to what >we're trying to do at jam. The one part of >e-Access bulletin's article which I liked most >was them quoting me on how frustrating it is >that we can't make our stuff available outside >the UK at the moment. I'd love all of you guys >outside the UK to have a chance to look at what >we've been able to do so far, so if ever you're >in the UK, give me a call and I'll give you a >personal demo. > >My very best wishes > >Jonathan. > >Jonathan Hassell >Accessibility Editor, BBC jam >Rm 2318 | White City | 201 Wood Lane | London W12 7TR >Landline: 020 8752 4271. Mobile: 07919 343686. >jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk > > > >http://www.bbc.co.uk >This e-mail (and any attachments) is >confidential and may contain personal views >which are not the views of the BBC unless >specifically stated. >If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. >Do not use, copy or disclose the information in >any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the >sender immediately. >Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. >Further communication will signify your consent to this. > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Mon Jan 29 16:58:07 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:58:07 -0500 Subject: [games_access] RobertFlorio entering Steven Spielberg's contest? In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkvCIA References: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B2900F@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzkvCIA Message-ID: <008501c743f0$90f0a310$6401a8c0@Inspiron> Hi everyone just wanted to get your thoughts about this new Steven Spielberg reality television show for new films. The deadline is February 16 something I'd be pushing to get a trailer ready and send out the documentary of working on by then. Basically people can look at your movies on line a guest judge them and Steven Spielberg and his partner to create a lot of reality television shows on Fox will pick like maybe 16 winners who come on the show in each week we have to make a new movie and the winner at the end gets $1 million to make their movie. Something I think is worth taking a risk I don't mind making movies especially to give you an awesome support group to do it so what's there to lose but there is an issue about the program possibly maintaining the rights if I send them my whole documentary but I didn't really understand their legality things on their web site. I think that's just my fear of not sure if I read that. Anyways if I send this and I really hope you all can check it out on this web site login and I let you know if I do and start commenting and who knows what could happen. This could be the thing I'm looking for I don't know but maybe. http://www.thelot.com/ Robert www.RobertFlorio.com _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:42 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games Hi Jonathan, No worries -- I know how things go when you don't get to see the preview of an article before it goes to press. It's definitely not a big deal in my book -- it happens. It's just too bad when it does but the authors are so often dealing with work count issues that sometimes they can't even help but shorten things. Agreed -- what happened to the accessibility foundation is quite unbelievable -- it just doesn't seem fair when things like this happen. Also, if there's a demo or ppt that we can show at GDC of the jam stuff, even if we can't make it fully available, to show what you're doing, please let me know and we can include it in the accessibility arcade session. Michelle Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C74318.9EA57BA7" Hi everyone, Hope you're all doing well - sorry that I'm not able to contribute to your emails too often? And sorry that there was no mention of the SIG or gamesaccessibility.com in the e-Access bulletin article. The reason is that I didn't see the article before it was published, so had no idea what was or wasn't in it. The article was taken from quotes from a demo I gave in London, so they were chosen by the journalist, not myself. There were quite a lot of things in the article that I'd have changed or corrected, if given the chance. It's a pity I didn't get that chance before publication? And, Richard, Sander - I'm gutted to hear about the fire at your offices. Especially as we had such a good meeting in them the day before. I don't know if there's anything we can do from England to help you sort things out other than to send our best wishes. But if we can help, please let me know. Rest assured everyone that I very much value every contribution that you've made to what we're trying to do at jam. The one part of e-Access bulletin's article which I liked most was them quoting me on how frustrating it is that we can't make our stuff available outside the UK at the moment. I'd love all of you guys outside the UK to have a chance to look at what we've been able to do so far, so if ever you're in the UK, give me a call and I'll give you a personal demo. My very best wishes Jonathan. Jonathan Hassell Accessibility Editor, BBC jam Rm 2318 | White City | 201 Wood Lane | London W12 7TR Landline: 020 8752 4271. Mobile: 07919 343686. jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk Tue Jan 30 04:50:12 2007 From: jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk (Jonathan Hassell) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:50:12 -0000 Subject: [games_access] Date of GDC Message-ID: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B29021@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> I'd be happy to put together a powerpoint for the GDC accessibility arcade. Can you remind me of the date of GDC again, so I can get this to you in time...? Best regards Jonathan. Jonathan Hassell Accessibility Editor, BBC jam Rm 2318 | White City | 201 Wood Lane | London W12 7TR Landline: 020 8752 4271. Mobile: 07919 343686. jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Jan 30 15:27:20 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:27:20 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Date of GDC In-Reply-To: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B29021@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B29021@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, >Can you remind me of the date of GDC again, so I can get this to you in time ? it's March 5-9 www.gdconf.com /Thomas Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) ____________________________________________________ Award Winning 3D Game for Blind and Sighted: www.terraformers.nu IGDA Game Accessibility SIG www.igda.org/accessibility/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Jan 30 15:43:59 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:43:59 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Date of GDC In-Reply-To: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B29021@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <0B7DDBBD8538864C989B77FCA2628D1D02B29021@bbcxue219.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: by the way, please upload the powerpoint to the IGDA Game Accessibility CD/DVD we will hand-out at GDC (an update of last year's edition) www.xdrive.com login igdagasig at aol.com password gdc2007 submission deadline: February 23 Thanks, /Thomas IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List writes: >I'd be happy to put together a powerpoint for the GDC accessibility arcade. > >Can you remind me of the date of GDC again, so I can get this to you in time ? > >Best regards > >Jonathan. > >Jonathan Hassell >Accessibility Editor, BBC jam >Rm 2318 | White City | 201 Wood Lane | London W12 7TR >Landline: 020 8752 4271. Mobile: 07919 343686. >[ mailto:jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk ]jonathan.hassell at bbc.co.uk > > > >[ http://www.bbc.co.uk ]http://www.bbc.co.uk >This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. >If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. >Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. >Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. >Further communication will signify your consent to this._______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) ____________________________________________________ Award Winning 3D Game for Blind and Sighted: www.terraformers.nu IGDA Game Accessibility SIG www.igda.org/accessibility/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Jan 30 16:39:14 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:39:14 +0100 Subject: [games_access] =?iso-8859-1?q?Building_Accessibility_foundation_b?= =?iso-8859-1?q?urned_to_the_=09ground_=28was=3A__B?= In-Reply-To: <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <, > <,> <00b501c740fe$693880d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Hi Richard, my sympathies to you all and glad to hear no one was hurt /Thomas IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List writes: >Hi, > >For those who haven't heard, last night the building that houses the >Accessibility foundation (which is part of the Bartimeus foundation) burned >to the ground, see: > >http://www.nu.nl/news/955836/12/Grote_brand_bij_blindeninstituut_Zeist_%28video%29.html >(in Dutch, but click link "video" to watch a video of the fire) >http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/data/fotoboek.php?id=142219 (click "volgende" to >watch pictures) >http://www.fotomiche.nl/cgi-bin/2006miche/main/index1.html?menu=zoekitem&id=778544689 >(more pics) >http://www.accessibility.nl/brand/index.php (even more pics, now after the >fire) > >Luckily nobody got hurt. The timing is extremely bad, since Audio Game Maker >was supposed to be launched next tuesday. Although we have a complete backup >up to yesterday's work, our software/licenses are burnt as well (Macromedia >Director MX 2004 and Macromedia Studio MX 2004). This means that we simply >cannot publish Audio Game Maker since we need to purchase new copies. Next >to that, we have to set up a new office on Monday at a new location, which >means that there we can't work on Audio Game Maker full time. > >We will keep you updated. > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] BBC develops accessible educational games > > >Yeah...it might have been nice for a mention >about the SIG helping too but they also forgot >the gameaccessibility.com mention, which is the >real unit of Bartimeus (as I understand it at >least -- Richard can clear that up) that's doing >that and where it would have been appropriate to >mention the crossover the SIG and >gameaccessibility.com, which has done the main >advising. Oh well. It happens. > >Michelle > >>BBC develops accessible educational games >> >>http://kestrell.livejournal.com/312342.html >> >>"The Jam team have received assistance on accessible gaming by the >>Bartim?us Accessibility Foundation" >> >>no less... >> >>regards >> >>Jonathan Chetwynd >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > Pin Interactive AB www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Time zone: CET (GMT+1, PST+9) ____________________________________________________ Award Winning 3D Game for Blind and Sighted: www.terraformers.nu IGDA Game Accessibility SIG www.igda.org/accessibility/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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