From glinert at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 1 00:05:18 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 00:05:18 -0400 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070930235653.06d49b20@po12.mit.edu> Ok Eelke, I'll take you up on your offer. What do you think of the AudiOdyssey proposal? Any feedback? Thanks, Eitan --------------- Title: AudiOdyssey Postmortem - How (and why!) to Make Accessible Games for Everyone Track, Format, Theme, Audience Level: Game Design - 1st, Vision - 2nd 60 Minute Lecture Technical Open to all experience levels Session Overview (50 words): AudiOdyssey is a downloadable prototype game designed to be usable by both sighted and non-sighted audiences. This session covers why industry should care about disabled gamers, how to make accessible games that are playable by everyone, and looks at what went right and wrong in AudiOdyssey's development. Concise Presentation Description (100 words): Despite the growing number and demographics of video game players, most games are still completely inaccessible to disabled populations. AudiOdyssey is a prototype video game designed to be usable by both sighted and non-sighted audiences. This session looks at what went right and what went wrong in AudiOdyssey's development, why industry should care about disabled gamers, and covers how to make games that are accessible yet still playable by mainstream audience. The talk includes a live demo of the game. Intended Audience and Prereqs (40 words): This talk is focused on design and intended for game designers, producers, students and academics. No experience is required. Session Takeaway (40 words): - It is possible to make games that are both accessible and still enjoyable to mainstream gamers - There are a large number of disabled people who want accessible games, therefore making such games is potentially very profitable Extended abstract (500 words): Until very recently gaming has been dominated by young men, with other groups comprising a relatively small portion of the market. Over the past few years, though, there has been an industry wide push to bring traditionally non-gaming demographics into the fold, with concerted commercial efforts to make and market games for women, the elderly, and the very young. However, one group, the disabled, has consistently been left out of such growth, and today there are few accessible games. This is curious, as a huge percentage of people suffer from disabilities - according to the 2000 US Census, 18.6% of citizens aged 16 to 64 suffer from some form of disability. This is bizarre ? how can the industry ignore such a large potential market share? Many game developers rationalize this trend by arguing that accessible games tend to perform poorly in mainstream audiences, as the games are generally inferior to non-accessible productions. The MIT GAMBIT games lab doesn?t buy that reasoning. Believing there is a huge demand for accessible games, the lab created AudiOdyssey, a prototype game that is accessible to BOTH the visually impaired and the sighted mainstream. AudiOdyssey's development had four research goals, namely: - Implementing a game design that allows visually impaired and sighted users to play the game in the same way, with the same level of challenge, and share a common gaming experience. - Designing online multiplayer that allows for identity masking, at least in the sense that users in remote locations should not be aware of the visual status of their gaming counterpart. - Designing alternative control schemes for improved accessibility to the visually impaired. - Creating a fun, engaging game that relies on audio more than visuals to simulate an exciting experience. Given by AudiOdyssey?s project lead, the GDC presentation will be a lively discussion covering motivation for why similar games should be created, how the research goals for the project were picked, and the experimental game development process. The post mortem will review which parts of the process worked, which didn't, and why they didn't. Pitfalls in accessible game development will be explored thoroughly. The talk will also cover formal testing results (taking place in early October), and conclude with a live demo of the game and a Q + A session. Presentation Materials (400 CHARS): QuickTime, Powerpoint & Projector Live Demonstration of AudiOdyssey (we will provide laptop and wiimote, we only need AV cables) Past Speaking Engagements (800 CHARS): "Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video Game", at Games for Health, May 9th, 2006 "Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video Game", at Games for Health, Sept. 29th, 2006 Contact for Games for Health Talks: Ben Sawyer, bsawyer at dmill.com, Co-Founder of Digital Mill, organizer for Serious Games Summits "Immune Attack: An Educational Video Game", at the National Science Foundation, May 31st, 2006 No Contact Info Available Accepted Talks: "AudiOdyssey: An Accessible Game for Both Sighted and Non-Sighted Gamers", at FuturePlay, Nov 2007 Contact: Dr. Bill Kapralos and Jim Parker, Bill.Kapralos at uoit.ca and jparker at ucalgary.ca Recent CNN article on AudiOdyssey and GAMBIT: http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/09/02/video.blind/ At 11:55 PM 9/30/2007, Eelke Folmer wrote: >Hey Michelle, > >Thanks for your elaborate feedback. >I was just curious what would be the best approach for GDC. > >If anyone wants me to go over their proposal let me know. > >cheers Eelke > > >On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > Just a side -- I'm trying to share as much as I know about the GDC > > process after having done the proposals for 05, 06, and 07. It's nice > > to have more people working round the clock with me at the deadline > > -- I really, really appreciate it and it's so great to have the > > feeling that we're all one team working together for the same goal. > > The hardest thing for me has been that it takes a lot of time to > > advise all while I'm trying to do the other write ups. But that's how > > we learn as a group! > > > > Michelle > > > > >Ok, there's a history behind the two audio tracks. The advisory > > >board for this is the same as it was for Austin and they invited us. > > >What we found was enormous support from the audio people for the > > >auditory part. So I'm adding a note at the top of the expanded > > >abstract to explain why these are split and if they prefer, the two > > >talks can be put together as they were in Austin. > > > > > >Note: Notes are ok in your expanded outline if you are explaining > > >something weird. Yeah, I know this sounds risky but I don't think > > >that these two are. Remember -- it's an advisory board selection > > >rather than a formal review. The rules for this are not the same as > > >an academic conference. And if you are ax-ed by one track...that's > > >where it ends. They have too many submissions to bother suggesting > > >another track, which is why they get pretty specific about what they > > >are looking for. That's been my experience. > > > > > >As for the other two, these are trickier and I know what you are > > >saying. That's why they need to be as unique as possible. Reid is > > >proposing a technical talk for programming. The one you and he are > > >working on is a business track proposal (keep in mind that they will > > >want to grill you about numbers). But they aren't the same proposals. > > > > > >The double audio tracks are also not the same proposals as yours and > > >Reids -- these are design and "show off" sessions, appealing more to > > >designers. And they are aimed at some the biggest supporters of GA > > >-- the Audio People and they are audio design sessions. Believe me > > >(and Richard would agree) the the Audio talk is WAY different than > > >your proposals. We've given it already. :) And I think our reviews > > >from that session suggest that we should do this again at GDC San > > >Fran (Big GDC) to an audience of even more audio designers. > > > > > >So there's no trickery the way I see it by what has happened with > > >these proposals. I think that they do belong in multiple tracks and > > >that they AREN'T merely repeats of the same talk. And they shouldn't > > >be when planning for them if accepted. If in the end the proposals > > >look exactly the same, then we've done something wrong. Yes, my > > >experience is that we will probably get about 2-4 of these accepted > > >(out of 11) so we do need lots of proposals. But I don't think we > > >are unfairly stacking the deck here. > > > > > >Michelle > > > > > >>hi, > > >> > > >>I'm seeing the same proposal in multiple tracks: > > >> > > >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities > > >>(Richard/Michelle) > > >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities > > >>(Reid/Michelle) > > >> > > >>- Selling more games by adding CC (Reid/ Eelke) > > >>- Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Reid) > > >> > > >>Its good to be pervasive to increase our chances of acceptance but it > > >>might also bite us in the back. In my fields of research it is > > >>generally not a good idea to submit the same proposal to multiple > > >>tracks. Generally reviewers will review a proposal and if they deem it > > >>to be suitable for another track they will usually suggest that. > > >>Submitting the same proposal to multiple tracks is usually considered > > >>spamming. Michelle do you know for GDC whether proposals are reviewed > > >>on an individual basis or do they look at who is submitting what to > > >>which track? I do want us to get as much proposals accepted as > > >>possible but I suggest we play by the rules. > > >> > > >>Cheers Eelke > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > > >>Department of CS&E/171 > > >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > > >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>games_access mailing list > > >>games_access at igda.org > > >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >games_access mailing list > > >games_access at igda.org > > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 00:14:46 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:14:46 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Take a look over the curriculum panel, Eelke, if you don't mind. There's still chunks I'm working on in Word at the moment. If you are including accessibility in your game design course (as a lecture, as a thread that runs throughout the class), you will probably be interested in being a part of this. So please feel free to add a brief description of your class for the extended proposal section. Basically we should not turn in any identical talks -- but the same idea -- [cc] -- can be presented to different audiences in different ways because there are a lot of facets of [cc]. It's no different than seeing 30 talks on the schedule about God of War II broken up into parts depending on the audience. :) Michelle >Hey Michelle, > >Thanks for your elaborate feedback. >I was just curious what would be the best approach for GDC. > >If anyone wants me to go over their proposal let me know. > >cheers Eelke > > >On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> Just a side -- I'm trying to share as much as I know about the GDC >> process after having done the proposals for 05, 06, and 07. It's nice >> to have more people working round the clock with me at the deadline >> -- I really, really appreciate it and it's so great to have the >> feeling that we're all one team working together for the same goal. >> The hardest thing for me has been that it takes a lot of time to >> advise all while I'm trying to do the other write ups. But that's how >> we learn as a group! >> >> Michelle >> >> >Ok, there's a history behind the two audio tracks. The advisory >> >board for this is the same as it was for Austin and they invited us. >> >What we found was enormous support from the audio people for the >> >auditory part. So I'm adding a note at the top of the expanded >> >abstract to explain why these are split and if they prefer, the two >> >talks can be put together as they were in Austin. >> > >> >Note: Notes are ok in your expanded outline if you are explaining >> >something weird. Yeah, I know this sounds risky but I don't think >> >that these two are. Remember -- it's an advisory board selection >> >rather than a formal review. The rules for this are not the same as >> >an academic conference. And if you are ax-ed by one track...that's >> >where it ends. They have too many submissions to bother suggesting >> >another track, which is why they get pretty specific about what they >> >are looking for. That's been my experience. >> > >> >As for the other two, these are trickier and I know what you are >> >saying. That's why they need to be as unique as possible. Reid is >> >proposing a technical talk for programming. The one you and he are >> >working on is a business track proposal (keep in mind that they will >> >want to grill you about numbers). But they aren't the same proposals. >> > >> >The double audio tracks are also not the same proposals as yours and >> >Reids -- these are design and "show off" sessions, appealing more to >> >designers. And they are aimed at some the biggest supporters of GA >> >-- the Audio People and they are audio design sessions. Believe me >> >(and Richard would agree) the the Audio talk is WAY different than >> >your proposals. We've given it already. :) And I think our reviews >> >from that session suggest that we should do this again at GDC San >> >Fran (Big GDC) to an audience of even more audio designers. >> > >> >So there's no trickery the way I see it by what has happened with >> >these proposals. I think that they do belong in multiple tracks and >> >that they AREN'T merely repeats of the same talk. And they shouldn't >> >be when planning for them if accepted. If in the end the proposals >> >look exactly the same, then we've done something wrong. Yes, my >> >experience is that we will probably get about 2-4 of these accepted >> >(out of 11) so we do need lots of proposals. But I don't think we >> >are unfairly stacking the deck here. >> > >> >Michelle >> > >> >>hi, > > >> >> >>I'm seeing the same proposal in multiple tracks: >> >> >> >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities >> >>(Richard/Michelle) >> >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities >> >>(Reid/Michelle) >> >> >> >>- Selling more games by adding CC (Reid/ Eelke) >> >>- Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Reid) >> >> >> >>Its good to be pervasive to increase our chances of acceptance but it >> >>might also bite us in the back. In my fields of research it is >> >>generally not a good idea to submit the same proposal to multiple >> >>tracks. Generally reviewers will review a proposal and if they deem it >> >>to be suitable for another track they will usually suggest that. >> >>Submitting the same proposal to multiple tracks is usually considered >> >>spamming. Michelle do you know for GDC whether proposals are reviewed >> >>on an individual basis or do they look at who is submitting what to >> >>which track? I do want us to get as much proposals accepted as >> >>possible but I suggest we play by the rules. >> >> >> >>Cheers Eelke >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >>Department of CS&E/171 >> >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>games_access mailing list >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 00:32:07 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:32:07 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070930235653.06d49b20@po12.mit.edu> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20070930235653.06d49b20@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: So I think it's a great proposal but you wanted more feedback so here it is! :) And it's actually something for everyone to read because it concerns all of us! My main thoughts after looking this over more closely is that I worry that we might cancel each other out. So because of the panel, Design might wonder if they should take a longer version of one game or a short version of several games. The second half of your title also mirrors a lot of our game accessibility overview proposals. I know that they aren't the same but again...we could end up hurting one another if not smartly worded to be as unique as possible. Maybe we need to move the "why" about accessibility closer to the end of some of the proposals to emphasize that "this talk is about how one programs an xyz game" and "this talk is about how much money you can make with accessible ABC" Also, I'm getting a little worried about how many times we say "why the industry should care" throughout all the Game Accessibility proposals. We need to make sure that we don't read as if we are stacking the deck by accident. So right now we have about 6 proposals to the design track that have similar intros about "game accessibility is important because..." and they might unfairly see just that and not see the important differences between them all. I'm just wondering if, on our 5th year of GDC proposals, we might have said the same thing too many time and they might say "well we'll just take one because they aren't any different from each other." So we should take some time tomorrow (I'll get the rest of the proposals up over the course of the night) to make sure we don't have too much language that reads exactly the same way. Perhaps the biggest concern is in the session overview and concise presentation presentation sections. This is what gets printed on the website and in the promo materials. If we all spend 2/3 of every one of these sections saying that accessibility is important...people might say "oh well I went to that one accessibility talk -- they all sound the same." So these two sections along with the title are THE most important parts as far as getting butts into the seats of our talks. Michelle >Ok Eelke, I'll take you up on your offer. What >do you think of the AudiOdyssey proposal? Any >feedback? >Thanks, >Eitan >--------------- > >Title: >AudiOdyssey Postmortem - How (and why!) to Make Accessible Games for Everyone > > > >Track, Format, Theme, Audience Level: >Game Design - 1st, Vision - 2nd >60 Minute Lecture >Technical >Open to all experience levels > > > >Session Overview (50 words): >AudiOdyssey is a downloadable prototype game >designed to be usable by both sighted and >non-sighted audiences. This session covers why >industry should care about disabled gamers, how >to make accessible games that are playable by >everyone, and looks at what went right and wrong >in AudiOdyssey's development. > > > >Concise Presentation Description (100 words): >Despite the growing number and demographics of >video game players, most games are still >completely inaccessible to disabled populations. >AudiOdyssey is a prototype video game designed >to be usable by both sighted and non-sighted >audiences. This session looks at what went right >and what went wrong in AudiOdyssey's >development, why industry should care about >disabled gamers, and covers how to make games >that are accessible yet still playable by >mainstream audience. The talk includes a live >demo of the game. > > > >Intended Audience and Prereqs (40 words): >This talk is focused on design and intended for >game designers, producers, students and >academics. No experience is required. > > > >Session Takeaway (40 words): >- It is possible to make games that are both >accessible and still enjoyable to mainstream >gamers >- There are a large number of disabled people >who want accessible games, therefore making such >games is potentially very profitable > > > >Extended abstract (500 words): > >Until very recently gaming has been dominated by >young men, with other groups comprising a >relatively small portion of the market. Over the >past few years, though, there has been an >industry wide push to bring traditionally >non-gaming demographics into the fold, with >concerted commercial efforts to make and market >games for women, the elderly, and the very >young. However, one group, the disabled, has >consistently been left out of such growth, and >today there are few accessible games. This is >curious, as a huge percentage of people suffer >from disabilities - according to the 2000 US >Census, 18.6% of citizens aged 16 to 64 suffer >from some form of disability. > >This is bizarre ? how can the industry ignore >such a large potential market share? Many game >developers rationalize this trend by arguing >that accessible games tend to perform poorly in >mainstream audiences, as the games are generally >inferior to non-accessible productions. The MIT >GAMBIT games lab doesn?t buy that reasoning. >Believing there is a huge demand for accessible >games, the lab created AudiOdyssey, a prototype >game that is accessible to BOTH the visually >impaired and the sighted mainstream. > >AudiOdyssey's development had four research goals, namely: > >- Implementing a game design that allows >visually impaired and sighted users to play the >game in the same way, with the same level of >challenge, and share a common gaming experience. >- Designing online multiplayer that allows for >identity masking, at least in the sense that >users in remote locations should not be aware of >the visual status of their gaming counterpart. >- Designing alternative control schemes for >improved accessibility to the visually impaired. >- Creating a fun, engaging game that relies on >audio more than visuals to simulate an exciting >experience. > >Given by AudiOdyssey?s project lead, the GDC >presentation will be a lively discussion >covering motivation for why similar games should >be created, how the research goals for the >project were picked, and the experimental game >development process. The post mortem will review >which parts of the process worked, which didn't, >and why they didn't. Pitfalls in accessible game >development will be explored thoroughly. The >talk will also cover formal testing results >(taking place in early October), and conclude >with a live demo of the game and a Q + A session. > > > > >Presentation Materials (400 CHARS): >QuickTime, Powerpoint & Projector >Live Demonstration of AudiOdyssey (we will >provide laptop and wiimote, we only need AV >cables) > > > >Past Speaking Engagements (800 CHARS): >"Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video >Game", at Games for Health, May 9th, 2006 >"Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video >Game", at Games for Health, Sept. 29th, 2006 >Contact for Games for Health Talks: >Ben Sawyer, bsawyer at dmill.com, Co-Founder of >Digital Mill, organizer for Serious Games Summits > >"Immune Attack: An Educational Video Game", at >the National Science Foundation, May 31st, 2006 >No Contact Info Available > >Accepted Talks: >"AudiOdyssey: An Accessible Game for Both >Sighted and Non-Sighted Gamers", at FuturePlay, >Nov 2007 >Contact: Dr. Bill Kapralos and Jim Parker, >Bill.Kapralos at uoit.ca and jparker at ucalgary.ca > >Recent CNN article on AudiOdyssey and GAMBIT: >http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/09/02/video.blind/ > > > >At 11:55 PM 9/30/2007, Eelke Folmer wrote: >>Hey Michelle, >> >>Thanks for your elaborate feedback. >>I was just curious what would be the best approach for GDC. >> >>If anyone wants me to go over their proposal let me know. >> >>cheers Eelke >> >> >>On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>> Just a side -- I'm trying to share as much as I know about the GDC >>> process after having done the proposals for 05, 06, and 07. It's nice >>> to have more people working round the clock with me at the deadline >>> -- I really, really appreciate it and it's so great to have the >>> feeling that we're all one team working together for the same goal. >>> The hardest thing for me has been that it takes a lot of time to >>> advise all while I'm trying to do the other write ups. But that's how >>> we learn as a group! >> > >>> Michelle >>> >>> >Ok, there's a history behind the two audio tracks. The advisory >>> >board for this is the same as it was for Austin and they invited us. >>> >What we found was enormous support from the audio people for the >>> >auditory part. So I'm adding a note at the top of the expanded >>> >abstract to explain why these are split and if they prefer, the two >>> >talks can be put together as they were in Austin. >>> > >>> >Note: Notes are ok in your expanded outline if you are explaining >>> >something weird. Yeah, I know this sounds risky but I don't think >>> >that these two are. Remember -- it's an advisory board selection >>> >rather than a formal review. The rules for this are not the same as >>> >an academic conference. And if you are ax-ed by one track...that's >>> >where it ends. They have too many submissions to bother suggesting >>> >another track, which is why they get pretty specific about what they >>> >are looking for. That's been my experience. >>> > >>> >As for the other two, these are trickier and I know what you are >>> >saying. That's why they need to be as unique as possible. Reid is >>> >proposing a technical talk for programming. The one you and he are >>> >working on is a business track proposal (keep in mind that they will >>> >want to grill you about numbers). But they aren't the same proposals. >>> > >>> >The double audio tracks are also not the same proposals as yours and >>> >Reids -- these are design and "show off" sessions, appealing more to >>> >designers. And they are aimed at some the biggest supporters of GA >>> >-- the Audio People and they are audio design sessions. Believe me >>> >(and Richard would agree) the the Audio talk is WAY different than >>> >your proposals. We've given it already. :) And I think our reviews >>> >from that session suggest that we should do this again at GDC San >>> >Fran (Big GDC) to an audience of even more audio designers. >>> > >>> >So there's no trickery the way I see it by what has happened with >>> >these proposals. I think that they do belong in multiple tracks and >>> >that they AREN'T merely repeats of the same talk. And they shouldn't >>> >be when planning for them if accepted. If in the end the proposals >>> >look exactly the same, then we've done something wrong. Yes, my >>> >experience is that we will probably get about 2-4 of these accepted >>> >(out of 11) so we do need lots of proposals. But I don't think we >>> >are unfairly stacking the deck here. >>> > >>> >Michelle >>> > >>> >>hi, >>> >> >>> >>I'm seeing the same proposal in multiple tracks: >>> >> >>> >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities >>> >>(Richard/Michelle) >>> >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities >>> >>(Reid/Michelle) >>> >> >>> >>- Selling more games by adding CC (Reid/ Eelke) >>> >>- Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Reid) >>> >> >>> >>Its good to be pervasive to increase our chances of acceptance but it >>> >>might also bite us in the back. In my fields of research it is >>> >>generally not a good idea to submit the same proposal to multiple >>> >>tracks. Generally reviewers will review a proposal and if they deem it >>> >>to be suitable for another track they will usually suggest that. >>> >>Submitting the same proposal to multiple tracks is usually considered >>> >>spamming. Michelle do you know for GDC whether proposals are reviewed >>> >>on an individual basis or do they look at who is submitting what to >>> >>which track? I do want us to get as much proposals accepted as >>> >>possible but I suggest we play by the rules. >>> >> >>> >>Cheers Eelke >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>------ >>> >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>> >>Department of CS&E/171 >>> >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>> >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>------ >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>games_access mailing list >>> >>games_access at igda.org >>> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >> > >games_access mailing list >>> >games_access at igda.org >>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 01:29:04 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:29:04 -0700 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty scenes in it. ;-) I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at the GDC on getting our proposals accepted, but we do need to get more people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! (Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to "sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. just my 2 cents..... cheers Eelke On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Basically we should not turn in any identical talks -- but the same > idea -- [cc] -- can be presented to different audiences in different > ways because there are a lot of facets of [cc]. It's no different > than seeing 30 talks on the schedule about God of War II broken up > into parts depending on the audience. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From reid at rbkdesign.com Mon Oct 1 01:43:41 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:43:41 -0700 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Our goal from day one has always to affect the industry at large to make games for all. I'm not sure what you are suggesting specifically other than "use our resources wisely". I personally want to talk to as many people as I can about CC in games. I'm willing to prepare for how ever many sessions I'm allowed to. I think we are trying something new this year by trying to speak to people in different tracks. Before it was tutorial days or serious summits and mobile roundtables or such which is great. I don't understand what the issue is? -Reid On 9/30/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty > scenes in it. ;-) > > I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at > the GDC on getting our proposals accepted, but we do need to get more > people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's > goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under > development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). > > We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend > our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last > year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to > the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But > giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in > different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I > volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other > booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I > think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out > those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk > with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! > (Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to > "sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. > Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the > other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. > > just my 2 cents..... > > cheers Eelke > > > > On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > > Basically we should not turn in any identical talks -- but the same > > idea -- [cc] -- can be presented to different audiences in different > > ways because there are a lot of facets of [cc]. It's no different > > than seeing 30 talks on the schedule about God of War II broken up > > into parts depending on the audience. :) > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 02:25:05 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 01:25:05 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty >scenes in it. ;-) Heh. Yeah. :) >I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at >the GDC on getting our proposals accepted Yeah, without a doubt we are going to need to network like hell, present a 1-2 "what else we are doing" at every talk, push the booth, make MANY handouts about our sessions+booth, etc. No doubt. And it would hurt to send personal invites to our sessions via email to as many people as we can think of that we can get in touch with. >>, but we do need to get more >>people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's >goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under >development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). Without a doubt that always needs to be our goal. At GDC hopefully we can lock in on some additional titles to go after and make a plan of attack. It was very encouraging to have an attentive, interested, and room capacity audience in Austin. The same happened at Montreal. So the topic can get butts in the seats...we just need to get the butts of the attendees at GDC in the chairs at OUR talks! >We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend >our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last >year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to >the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But >giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in >different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I >volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other >booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I >think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out >those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk >with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! >(Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to >"sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. >Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the >other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. We have more than we think -- check the wiki -- more names are appearing. :) And I can get some of my students to come and help with the expo booth as needed. Obviously some shift making will have to be planned out. I think if we plan the sessions before we GET to San Fran, we'll be better prepared to spend more time networking, passing out fliers, and introducing GA to every single person we can find (maybe we can make it into a game like a scavenger hunt? hehe. As for the shirts...I have something I'm working on that -- it could let us have enough to pass out. :) I agree -- we are limited in numbers. But if we make our plan for attack ahead of time and stick to it, we can no doubt do it! Let's not think of self-defeating things like "what if no one shows" right now -- let's focus on what we can do to get people to the talks. :) Michelle From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 02:33:56 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:33:56 +0200 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002e01c803f5$0b380270$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, *quote* > -When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities > (Richard/Michelle) > -When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities > (Reid/Michelle) *quote end* Don't know who put this here put my guess is that the second should be: "When Audio is NOT the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities" ;) Which is quite different than the first... but then yes, three proposals for [CC] can be a bit much ;) Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer" To: Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:06 AM Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > hi, > > I'm seeing the same proposal in multiple tracks: > > -When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities > (Richard/Michelle) > -When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities > (Reid/Michelle) > > - Selling more games by adding CC (Reid/ Eelke) > - Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Reid) > > Its good to be pervasive to increase our chances of acceptance but it > might also bite us in the back. In my fields of research it is > generally not a good idea to submit the same proposal to multiple > tracks. Generally reviewers will review a proposal and if they deem it > to be suitable for another track they will usually suggest that. > Submitting the same proposal to multiple tracks is usually considered > spamming. Michelle do you know for GDC whether proposals are reviewed > on an individual basis or do they look at who is submitting what to > which track? I do want us to get as much proposals accepted as > possible but I suggest we play by the rules. > > Cheers Eelke > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 02:35:59 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:35:59 -0700 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300709302335m9b80198nc086e79cf87047c9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Reid, On 9/30/07, Reid Kimball wrote: > Our goal from day one has always to affect the industry at large to > make games for all. I'm not sure what you are suggesting specifically > other than "use our resources wisely". I personally want to talk to as > many people as I can about CC in games. I'm willing to prepare for how > ever many sessions I'm allowed to. I appreciate your dedication but the problem is as can be seen from our past attendance figures is that it is incredibly hard to attract people to our talks. The concept of game accessibility does not sell well compared to the dozens of other "cool" talks that are going on at the same time. If you are dropping several hundreds of dollars on a pass to go to GDC, you want to be entertained and see the latest games and hardware. I'm merely suggesting of trying to do things a bit different this year and not focus too much on the talks alone, we can spend our resources better. Talks are good to get us in but they also take our time (preparation/attendance). What if we can spend that time outside of our talks talking to game developers handing out our top 10 flyers? I am not saying we should skip the talks but in recent years it hasn't brought us the audience we hoped for and I don't see that changing soon. Handing cliffy B / Ken Levine/ David Jaffe/ Lord British what not our little flyer can have a potentially bigger impact than an X amount of talks for the same small number of people with hardly any influence on game development which just show up because they symphatize with us. The point is if you talk to people personally I cannot imagine someone not rooting for people with disabilities, but on a collective level disabilities are ignored since there is just too much distraction and other cool stuff going on at GDC. Given that, why not make game accessibility personal and go out there with our cool four ghost Shirts and talk to as much individuals as possible and hand out as many leaflets as we can? Having a few good high quality talks at the end of the conference is good because then we can tell game developers that are interested HOW to make their games accessible, but we do want to make sure we HAVE an audience this year, and i'm just worried about that. Cheers Eelke > > On 9/30/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: > > Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty > > scenes in it. ;-) > > > > I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at > > the GDC on getting our proposals accepted, but we do need to get more > > people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's > > goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under > > development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). > > > > We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend > > our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last > > year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to > > the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But > > giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in > > different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I > > volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other > > booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I > > think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out > > those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk > > with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! > > (Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to > > "sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. > > Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the > > other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. > > > > just my 2 cents..... > > > > cheers Eelke > > > > > > > > On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > > > > Basically we should not turn in any identical talks -- but the same > > > idea -- [cc] -- can be presented to different audiences in different > > > ways because there are a lot of facets of [cc]. It's no different > > > than seeing 30 talks on the schedule about God of War II broken up > > > into parts depending on the audience. :) > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > > Department of CS&E/171 > > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 02:53:28 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:53:28 -0700 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> Sweet ! Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get their asses at our talks? What we need: - cool shirts - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): 1. Closed captions 2. Customizable controls 3. Slow 4. Assists 5. x 6. x 7. x 8. x 9.x 10. x cheers Eelke On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty > >scenes in it. ;-) > > Heh. Yeah. :) > > >I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at > >the GDC on getting our proposals accepted > > Yeah, without a doubt we are going to need to network like hell, > present a 1-2 "what else we are doing" at every talk, push the booth, > make MANY handouts about our sessions+booth, etc. No doubt. And it > would hurt to send personal invites to our sessions via email to as > many people as we can think of that we can get in touch with. > > >>, but we do need to get more > >>people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's > >goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under > >development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). > > Without a doubt that always needs to be our goal. At GDC hopefully we > can lock in on some additional titles to go after and make a plan of > attack. It was very encouraging to have an attentive, interested, and > room capacity audience in Austin. The same happened at Montreal. So > the topic can get butts in the seats...we just need to get the butts > of the attendees at GDC in the chairs at OUR talks! > > > >We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend > >our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last > >year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to > >the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But > >giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in > >different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I > >volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other > >booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I > >think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out > >those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk > >with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! > >(Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to > >"sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. > >Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the > >other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. > > We have more than we think -- check the wiki -- more names are > appearing. :) And I can get some of my students to come and help with > the expo booth as needed. Obviously some shift making will have to be > planned out. I think if we plan the sessions before we GET to San > Fran, we'll be better prepared to spend more time networking, passing > out fliers, and introducing GA to every single person we can find > (maybe we can make it into a game like a scavenger hunt? hehe. > > As for the shirts...I have something I'm working on that -- it could > let us have enough to pass out. :) > > I agree -- we are limited in numbers. But if we make our plan for > attack ahead of time and stick to it, we can no doubt do it! > > Let's not think of self-defeating things like "what if no one shows" > right now -- let's focus on what we can do to get people to the > talks. :) > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 03:14:06 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:14:06 -0700 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710010014u192269b8t6c734e6a541b911@mail.gmail.com> http://www.igda.org/wiki/GDC08_Publicity Please put your name there and brainstorm on some ideas! Lets make GDC'08 a success! cheers Eelke On 9/30/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Sweet ! > > Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force > and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get > their asses at our talks? > > What we need: > - cool shirts > - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. > - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be > pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration > on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on > what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I > suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to > the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): > 1. Closed captions > 2. Customizable controls > 3. Slow > 4. Assists > 5. x > 6. x > 7. x > 8. x > 9.x > 10. x > > cheers Eelke > > > On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > >Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty > > >scenes in it. ;-) > > > > Heh. Yeah. :) > > > > >I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at > > >the GDC on getting our proposals accepted > > > > Yeah, without a doubt we are going to need to network like hell, > > present a 1-2 "what else we are doing" at every talk, push the booth, > > make MANY handouts about our sessions+booth, etc. No doubt. And it > > would hurt to send personal invites to our sessions via email to as > > many people as we can think of that we can get in touch with. > > > > >>, but we do need to get more > > >>people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's > > >goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under > > >development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). > > > > Without a doubt that always needs to be our goal. At GDC hopefully we > > can lock in on some additional titles to go after and make a plan of > > attack. It was very encouraging to have an attentive, interested, and > > room capacity audience in Austin. The same happened at Montreal. So > > the topic can get butts in the seats...we just need to get the butts > > of the attendees at GDC in the chairs at OUR talks! > > > > > > >We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend > > >our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last > > >year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to > > >the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But > > >giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in > > >different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I > > >volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other > > >booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I > > >think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out > > >those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk > > >with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! > > >(Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to > > >"sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. > > >Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the > > >other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. > > > > We have more than we think -- check the wiki -- more names are > > appearing. :) And I can get some of my students to come and help with > > the expo booth as needed. Obviously some shift making will have to be > > planned out. I think if we plan the sessions before we GET to San > > Fran, we'll be better prepared to spend more time networking, passing > > out fliers, and introducing GA to every single person we can find > > (maybe we can make it into a game like a scavenger hunt? hehe. > > > > As for the shirts...I have something I'm working on that -- it could > > let us have enough to pass out. :) > > > > I agree -- we are limited in numbers. But if we make our plan for > > attack ahead of time and stick to it, we can no doubt do it! > > > > Let's not think of self-defeating things like "what if no one shows" > > right now -- let's focus on what we can do to get people to the > > talks. :) > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 03:17:23 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 02:17:23 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <002e01c803f5$0b380270$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <002e01c803f5$0b380270$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: I did that on purpose but I'm willing to concede that it might be "too" alike. I like the title switch. I am letting them know about Austin because it's the same review crew (or close enough) for the audio track so I think they will understand what we're going for (once I finish typing...answering emails right now to everyone writing is essential...but it's also slowing my writing down!! >Hi, > >*quote* >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities >>(Richard/Michelle) >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities >>(Reid/Michelle) >*quote end* > >Don't know who put this here put my guess is that the second should be: > >"When Audio is NOT the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities" > >;) > >Which is quite different than the first... but then yes, three >proposals for [CC] can be a bit much ;) > > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer" >To: >Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:06 AM >Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > >>hi, >> >>I'm seeing the same proposal in multiple tracks: >> >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Visual Disabilities >>(Richard/Michelle) >>-When Audio IS the game experience: Gamers with Auditory Disabilities >>(Reid/Michelle) >> >>- Selling more games by adding CC (Reid/ Eelke) >>- Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Reid) >> >>Its good to be pervasive to increase our chances of acceptance but it >>might also bite us in the back. In my fields of research it is >>generally not a good idea to submit the same proposal to multiple >>tracks. Generally reviewers will review a proposal and if they deem it >>to be suitable for another track they will usually suggest that. >>Submitting the same proposal to multiple tracks is usually considered >>spamming. Michelle do you know for GDC whether proposals are reviewed >>on an individual basis or do they look at who is submitting what to >>which track? I do want us to get as much proposals accepted as >>possible but I suggest we play by the rules. >> >>Cheers Eelke >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 03:58:25 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 02:58:25 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >Sweet ! > >Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >their asses at our talks? Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >What we need: >- cool shirts So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. :D Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >- if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >- brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): > 1. Closed captions > 2. Customizable controls > 3. Slow > 4. Assists > 5. x > 6. x > 7. x > 8. x > 9.x >10. x Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the sig site. I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! Kick. Ass. :D Michelle From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 04:02:26 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:02:26 -0500 Subject: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks In-Reply-To: <836db6300710010014u192269b8t6c734e6a541b911@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300710010014u192269b8t6c734e6a541b911@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Cool! We should do the same for E for All. Ok, we don't have much time for planning but we can practice our networking skills there because we don't have talks to give. So we probably need to decide if we are going to use our current top ten due to the time crunch or if a new flier can be made up asap so it can go to the printer. I just replied with a little bit that can probably be added to that wiki page. I will definitely add to it as soon as proposal gate is over. :D Michelle >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GDC08_Publicity > >Please put your name there and brainstorm on some ideas! Lets make >GDC'08 a success! > >cheers Eelke > > >On 9/30/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: >> Sweet ! >> >> Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >> and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >> their asses at our talks? >> >> What we need: >> - cool shirts >> - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >> - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >> pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >> on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >> what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >> suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >> the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >> 1. Closed captions >> 2. Customizable controls >> 3. Slow >> 4. Assists >> 5. x >> 6. x >> 7. x >> 8. x >> 9.x >> 10. x >> >> cheers Eelke >> >> >> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> > >Yeah but god of war II has sold a gazillion copies and has naughty >> > >scenes in it. ;-) >> > >> > Heh. Yeah. :) >> > >> > >I guess with game accessibility we do have a little bit more credit at >> > >the GDC on getting our proposals accepted >> > >> > Yeah, without a doubt we are going to need to network like hell, >> > present a 1-2 "what else we are doing" at every talk, push the booth, >> > make MANY handouts about our sessions+booth, etc. No doubt. And it >> > would hurt to send personal invites to our sessions via email to as >> > many people as we can think of that we can get in touch with. >> > >> > >>, but we do need to get more >> > >>people at our meetings and we actually need to make it this year's >> > >goal to affect at least one or more games that are currently under >> > >development (like Reid/Me did with Killzone 2). >> > >> > Without a doubt that always needs to be our goal. At GDC hopefully we >> > can lock in on some additional titles to go after and make a plan of >> > attack. It was very encouraging to have an attentive, interested, and >> > room capacity audience in Austin. The same happened at Montreal. So >> > the topic can get butts in the seats...we just need to get the butts >> > of the attendees at GDC in the chairs at OUR talks! >> > >> > >> > >We only have a limited amount of people available so we should spend >> > >our resources wisely. If hardly anyone comes to our events like last >> > >year we should seriously consider alternative ways of reaching out to >> > >the community. Having an X amount of talks is good to get us in. But >> > >giving a talk takes preparation and that time can also be spent in >> > >different ways. Getting a booth is already an improvement, and I >> > >volunteer to be there as much as possible. But if there are other >> > >booths with lots of people playing fancy cool new games, well then I >> > >think that is also an opportunity for us to go out there to hand out >> > >those little flyers with 10 little accessibility tips and just talk >> > >with people about disabilities. That's why we need those shirts too! >> > >(Accessibility Taskforce). Its sad but true but with regard to >> > >"sexiness" we cannot compete with any fancy game title out there. >> > >Fortunately only one person can play at a time at such booths so the >> > >other 50 bystanders could be ready to listen to us. > > > >> > We have more than we think -- check the wiki -- more names are >> > appearing. :) And I can get some of my students to come and help with >> > the expo booth as needed. Obviously some shift making will have to be >> > planned out. I think if we plan the sessions before we GET to San >> > Fran, we'll be better prepared to spend more time networking, passing >> > out fliers, and introducing GA to every single person we can find >> > (maybe we can make it into a game like a scavenger hunt? hehe. >> > >> > As for the shirts...I have something I'm working on that -- it could >> > let us have enough to pass out. :) >> > >> > I agree -- we are limited in numbers. But if we make our plan for >> > attack ahead of time and stick to it, we can no doubt do it! >> > >> > Let's not think of self-defeating things like "what if no one shows" >> > right now -- let's focus on what we can do to get people to the >> > talks. :) >> > >> > Michelle >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> Department of CS&E/171 >> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From gramenos at ics.forth.gr Mon Oct 1 04:16:44 2007 From: gramenos at ics.forth.gr (Dimitris Grammenos) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:16:44 +0300 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: <00f701c803b5$31689300$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <20071001081848.7A04C8E40FC@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> Hello everyone! Yes I'm alive... Sorry, but I've been traveling most of the time + managing two large national projects + writing some EU proposals +++ Anyway, I'd be very happy to contribute in any of the sessions that you think I can help. Richard, I would also like to participate in your 10 Key points thing. BTW if anyone needs something more provocative about GA we can use stuff from my "Game Accessibility: Why Bother?" Gamasutra article. Actually an edited version of it (entitled "Game Over?") will also appear in the User Experience magazine of the Usability Professionals Association. Now regarding Richard's question (if I'm preparing something for the GDC) the answer is "maybe"... I had some ideas but up to now, but I did not have any time to work on them (or to find someone else to help me). One had to do with a demonstration of the Parallel Game Universes concept and the other with "Game Over 3D". Cheers, Dimitris -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of AudioGames.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:57 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal Hi, Mmm.... maybe the thing was working on today (10 Key Points thing) might be a good IGDA session.... I intend it to be a session a bit about *everything*-you-need-to-know-about-game-accessibility in 60 minutes (The Big Picture-sort-of-thing). Anyone want to participate with me on this? Michelle, I put your name down with this one already since I guess there's a huge part for you in here as well? Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal > Thanks Kevin -- I was just working on that in Word. I think I'm going to > put Design and "Other" as track because there is no education summit this > year so we can't go that direction. I've also put in a bid to IGDA to > include this as a cross-SIG collaboration -- it might go into the IGDA > track better. But we'll put it through now to see if it gets accepted or > not. > > The IGDA track is a totally separate deal -- you'll notice it's not an > option on the submission form. That's because that's where we negotiate > which SIGs/Committees get what sessions -- some of the behind the scenes > part of being chair. A few years ago I would put our proposals in directly > through them and that's how this worked. Things have changed the last two > years and now I (and all the other SIG chairs) put everything through the > regular system. Then if everything blows up in our faces I can then > petition for a "second chance" or an alternative combo of 5 rejected > proposals into one type thing through the IGDA. > > Michelle > >>Michelle (and anyone else interested): >> >>I took a first cut at editing the GDC08 Curriculum Panel proposal. No idea >>what to put down for track, theme, or extended abstract. Comments please. >> >>Kevin Bierre, Associate Professor (kjb at it.rit.edu) >>Information Technology, Rochester Institute of Technology 585-475-5358 >>102 Lomb Memorial Drive Bldg 70-2637 >>Rochester, NY 14623 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 04:30:24 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:30:24 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: <20071001081848.7A04C8E40FC@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> References: <20071001081848.7A04C8E40FC@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> Message-ID: Hey Dimitris! I have a place for Game Over 3D actually -- can you send me a link to info about it so that I can include it in a session proposal? Thanks for the idea about using your article to help liven things up -- GREAT idea! Especially as I'm still working at...wow...it's already 3:30am???? Michelle >Hello everyone! > >Yes I'm alive... Sorry, but I've been traveling most of the time + managing >two large national projects + writing some EU proposals +++ > >Anyway, I'd be very happy to contribute in any of the sessions that you >think I can help. Richard, I would also like to participate in your 10 Key >points thing. > >BTW if anyone needs something more provocative about GA we can use stuff >from my "Game Accessibility: Why Bother?" Gamasutra article. Actually an >edited version of it (entitled "Game Over?") will also appear in the User >Experience magazine of the Usability Professionals Association. > >Now regarding Richard's question (if I'm preparing something for the GDC) >the answer is "maybe"... I had some ideas but up to now, but I did not have >any time to work on them (or to find someone else to help me). One had to do >with a demonstration of the Parallel Game Universes concept and the other >with "Game Over 3D". > >Cheers, > >Dimitris > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of AudioGames.net >Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:57 AM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal > >Hi, > >Mmm.... maybe the thing was working on today (10 Key Points thing) might be >a good IGDA session.... I intend it to be a session a bit about >*everything*-you-need-to-know-about-game-accessibility in 60 minutes (The >Big Picture-sort-of-thing). > >Anyone want to participate with me on this? Michelle, I put your name down >with this one already since I guess there's a huge part for you in here as >well? > >Greets, > >Richard > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:00 AM >Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal > > >> Thanks Kevin -- I was just working on that in Word. I think I'm going to >> put Design and "Other" as track because there is no education summit this >> year so we can't go that direction. I've also put in a bid to IGDA to >> include this as a cross-SIG collaboration -- it might go into the IGDA >> track better. But we'll put it through now to see if it gets accepted or >> not. >> >> The IGDA track is a totally separate deal -- you'll notice it's not an >> option on the submission form. That's because that's where we negotiate >> which SIGs/Committees get what sessions -- some of the behind the scenes >> part of being chair. A few years ago I would put our proposals in directly > >> through them and that's how this worked. Things have changed the last two >> years and now I (and all the other SIG chairs) put everything through the >> regular system. Then if everything blows up in our faces I can then >> petition for a "second chance" or an alternative combo of 5 rejected >> proposals into one type thing through the IGDA. >> >> Michelle >> >>>Michelle (and anyone else interested): >>> >>>I took a first cut at editing the GDC08 Curriculum Panel proposal. No idea > >>>what to put down for track, theme, or extended abstract. Comments please. >>> >>>Kevin Bierre, Associate Professor (kjb at it.rit.edu) >>>Information Technology, Rochester Institute of Technology 585-475-5358 >>>102 Lomb Memorial Drive Bldg 70-2637 >>>Rochester, NY 14623 >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 05:30:27 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:30:27 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: <836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail.gmail.com> References: <257101c80299$793a60e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300709291520l48163a88xd8b0b98b71624fa4@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709301944p1a2a2dcbx368ffb850c7675ec@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302024q5a08e092o2db1c4d8279bca1f@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com> Hello Eelke, 20 minutes is a bit tight I think, just to show the Cyberlink and explain how it works and show the Jedi example; I think that will take 10-15 minutes alone Then we have the Half-life 2 one-button, to start the game, and show examples and explain how to do it will take some time too, not sure exactly but my guess is 10 minutes? Also, AudiOdyssey and Wiimote - is Eitan with us? You mentioned an idea to include him too I am also planning (if I get permission) to talk about a contract game we (pin) are making and I think we have a lot other things to talk about; e.g how to utilize mainstream hardware for accessibility So I'd say _at least_ 45 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes for discussion with the audience, and a 5 minutes buffer for technical issues which almost always arise /thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 05.57 skrev Eelke Folmer: > ow my bad.... ;-) > > cheers Eelke > > > On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> Uh...I think we have proposal mix up. This was about the talk you and >> Thomas are doing. >> >> Now 20 minutes for the business one, yes, that seems sufficient. >> >> Michelle >> >>> Hmmm well I don't know 20 minutes seems sufficient. It's not rocket >>> science. ;-) >>> Cliff Blezinsky gave a Gears of War postmortem in 60 minutes last >>> year >>> as a comparison and we don't have nearly as much material. 20 >>> minutes >>> is enough time to bring the message and still deliver something that >>> is high quality. I rather go slightly over 20 minutes than only have >>> 40 minutes of material and then bore my audience to death for the >>> remainder. >>> >>> Then again I can only speak for myself and Reid might have a >>> different opinion. >>> >>> cheers eelke >>> >>> >>> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>> Keep in mind that there are VERY few 20 minute slots. I don't know >>>> the number but they are warning us about them having worse odds >>>> than >>>> the 60 minute slots. Do you think that you can do justice to >>>> all of >>>> these things in 20 minutes? It seems to me that you would be >>>> really, >>>> really rushed. >>>> >>>>> A 20 minute talk is sufficient and is likelier to be accepted. >>>>> >>>>> the title changes are good. >>>>> >>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/29/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>> How did you envision this talk? As a panel? A 20 minute or 60 >>>>>> minute >>>>>> talk? A roundtable? I'm thinking a 60 minute talk but I want >>>>>> to be >>>>>> sure that's what you were thinking too. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> We need to work on the title a bit -- it's a little vague. >>>>>> Basically >>>>>> we need something that says what the talk is about and/or is >>>>>> enticing >>>>>> enough to look up the abstract for when they are glancing >>>>>> through the >>>>>> title cards on display at GDC. Thomas had a good idea about >>>>>> emphasizing the "Jedi" bit -- maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: >>>>>> Designers Creative & Accessible Toolbox" -- or just >>>>>> accessible or >>>>>> just creative? Or maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: Creative and >>>>>> Accessible Design Tools"? >>>>>> >>>>>> Michelle >>>>>> (who is on 11th hour "GDC think" -- like "doublethink" but less >>>>>> scary...I think...I think again...ahhhhhh) >>>>>> >>>>>>> we have expanded it a bit more so if you want to take another >>>>>>> look ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/29/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Short and sweetly: Looks very good to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Barrie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Thomas Westin >>>>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:28 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hello >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I and Eelke have come up with this draft for our proposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Designers_Creative_Toolbox >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> any comments and feedback welcome >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>> Thomas and Eelke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>> Thomas Westin >>>>>>>> VD/CEO >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pin Interactive AB >>>>>>>> :: Digital Culture Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds >>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>> Award Winning Developer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.pininteractive.com >>>>>>>> +46 (0)706 400 402 >>>>>>>> Skype: thomaswestin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- >>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>> Department of CS&E/171 >>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 05:36:22 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 04:36:22 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: <9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com> References: <257101c80299$793 a60e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300709291520l48163a88xd8b0b98b71624fa4@mai l.gmail.com><836db6300709301944p1a2a2 dcbx368ffb850c7675ec@mail.gmail.com>< 836db6300709302024q5a08e092o2db1c4d8279bca1f@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail.gmail.com> <9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: 20 hours to go...actually less. Gotta put the sexy in the proposals now! >Hello Eelke, > >20 minutes is a bit tight I think, just to show the Cyberlink and >explain how it works and show the Jedi example; I think that will >take 10-15 minutes alone > >Then we have the Half-life 2 one-button, to start the game, and show >examples and explain how to do it will take some time too, not sure >exactly but my guess is 10 minutes? > >Also, AudiOdyssey and Wiimote - is Eitan with us? You mentioned an >idea to include him too > >I am also planning (if I get permission) to talk about a contract >game we (pin) are making > >and I think we have a lot other things to talk about; e.g how to >utilize mainstream hardware for accessibility > >So I'd say _at least_ 45 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes for >discussion with the audience, and a 5 minutes buffer for technical >issues which almost always arise > >/thomas > > > >1 okt 2007 kl. 05.57 skrev Eelke Folmer: > >>ow my bad.... ;-) >> >>cheers Eelke >> >> >>On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>Uh...I think we have proposal mix up. This was about the talk you and >>>Thomas are doing. >>> >>>Now 20 minutes for the business one, yes, that seems sufficient. >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>>Hmmm well I don't know 20 minutes seems sufficient. It's not rocket >>>>science. ;-) >>>>Cliff Blezinsky gave a Gears of War postmortem in 60 minutes last year >>>>as a comparison and we don't have nearly as much material. 20 minutes >>>>is enough time to bring the message and still deliver something that >>>>is high quality. I rather go slightly over 20 minutes than only have >>>>40 minutes of material and then bore my audience to death for the >>>>remainder. >>>> >>>>Then again I can only speak for myself and Reid might have a >>>>different opinion. >>>> >>>>cheers eelke >>>> >>>> >>>>On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>> Keep in mind that there are VERY few 20 minute slots. I don't know >>>>> the number but they are warning us about them having worse odds than >>>>> the 60 minute slots. Do you think that you can do justice to all of >>>>> these things in 20 minutes? It seems to me that you would be really, >>>>> really rushed. >>>>> >>>>>>A 20 minute talk is sufficient and is likelier to be accepted. >>>>>> >>>>>>the title changes are good. >>>>>> >>>>>>cheers Eelke >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On 9/29/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>> How did you envision this talk? As a panel? A 20 minute or 60 minute >>>>>>> talk? A roundtable? I'm thinking a 60 minute talk but I want to be >>>>>>> sure that's what you were thinking too. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We need to work on the title a bit -- it's a little vague. Basically >>>>>>> we need something that says what the talk is about and/or is enticing >>>>>>> enough to look up the abstract for when they are glancing through the >>>>>>> title cards on display at GDC. Thomas had a good idea about >>>>>>> emphasizing the "Jedi" bit -- maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: >>>>>>> Designers Creative & Accessible Toolbox" -- or just accessible or >>>>>>> just creative? Or maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: Creative and >>>>>>> Accessible Design Tools"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michelle >>>>>>> (who is on 11th hour "GDC think" -- like "doublethink" but less >>>>>>> scary...I think...I think again...ahhhhhh) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>we have expanded it a bit more so if you want to take another look ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>cheers Eelke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 9/29/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Short and sweetly: Looks very good to me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Barrie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:28 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hello >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I and Eelke have come up with this draft for our proposal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Designers_Creative_Toolbox >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> any comments and feedback welcome >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>> Thomas and Eelke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>> VD/CEO >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pin Interactive AB >>>>>>>>> :: Digital Culture Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds >>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Award Winning Developer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.pininteractive.com >>>>>>>>> +46 (0)706 400 402 >>>>>>>>> Skype: thomaswestin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 05:51:06 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:51:06 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: References: <257101c80299$793a60e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300709291520l48163a88xd8b0b98b71624fa4@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709301944p1a2a2dcbx368ffb850c7675ec@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302024q5a08e092o2db1c4d8279bca1f@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail.gmail.com><9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <570BD2B2-5EAE-4AEB-B221-FA021E37C848@pininteractive.com> yes just so I know, is it a 60 minute or 20 minute we get? /thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 11.36 skrev d. michelle hinn: > 20 hours to go...actually less. Gotta put the sexy in the proposals > now! > >> Hello Eelke, >> >> 20 minutes is a bit tight I think, just to show the Cyberlink and >> explain how it works and show the Jedi example; I think that will >> take 10-15 minutes alone >> >> Then we have the Half-life 2 one-button, to start the game, and >> show examples and explain how to do it will take some time too, >> not sure exactly but my guess is 10 minutes? >> >> Also, AudiOdyssey and Wiimote - is Eitan with us? You mentioned an >> idea to include him too >> >> I am also planning (if I get permission) to talk about a contract >> game we (pin) are making >> >> and I think we have a lot other things to talk about; e.g how to >> utilize mainstream hardware for accessibility >> >> So I'd say _at least_ 45 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes >> for discussion with the audience, and a 5 minutes buffer for >> technical issues which almost always arise >> >> /thomas >> >> >> >> 1 okt 2007 kl. 05.57 skrev Eelke Folmer: >> >>> ow my bad.... ;-) >>> >>> cheers Eelke >>> >>> >>> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>> Uh...I think we have proposal mix up. This was about the talk >>>> you and >>>> Thomas are doing. >>>> >>>> Now 20 minutes for the business one, yes, that seems sufficient. >>>> >>>> Michelle >>>> >>>>> Hmmm well I don't know 20 minutes seems sufficient. It's not >>>>> rocket >>>>> science. ;-) >>>>> Cliff Blezinsky gave a Gears of War postmortem in 60 minutes >>>>> last year >>>>> as a comparison and we don't have nearly as much material. 20 >>>>> minutes >>>>> is enough time to bring the message and still deliver something >>>>> that >>>>> is high quality. I rather go slightly over 20 minutes than only >>>>> have >>>>> 40 minutes of material and then bore my audience to death for the >>>>> remainder. >>>>> >>>>> Then again I can only speak for myself and Reid might have a >>>>> different opinion. >>>>> >>>>> cheers eelke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>> Keep in mind that there are VERY few 20 minute slots. I don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> the number but they are warning us about them having worse >>>>>> odds than >>>>>> the 60 minute slots. Do you think that you can do justice to >>>>>> all of >>>>>> these things in 20 minutes? It seems to me that you would be >>>>>> really, >>>>>> really rushed. >>>>>> >>>>>>> A 20 minute talk is sufficient and is likelier to be accepted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the title changes are good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/29/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>>> How did you envision this talk? As a panel? A 20 minute or >>>>>>>> 60 minute >>>>>>>> talk? A roundtable? I'm thinking a 60 minute talk but I >>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>> sure that's what you were thinking too. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We need to work on the title a bit -- it's a little vague. >>>>>>>> Basically >>>>>>>> we need something that says what the talk is about and/or >>>>>>>> is enticing >>>>>>>> enough to look up the abstract for when they are glancing >>>>>>>> through the >>>>>>>> title cards on display at GDC. Thomas had a good idea about >>>>>>>> emphasizing the "Jedi" bit -- maybe "Turning Gamers into >>>>>>>> Jedis: >>>>>>>> Designers Creative & Accessible Toolbox" -- or just >>>>>>>> accessible or >>>>>>>> just creative? Or maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: >>>>>>>> Creative and >>>>>>>> Accessible Design Tools"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Michelle >>>>>>>> (who is on 11th hour "GDC think" -- like "doublethink" but >>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>> scary...I think...I think again...ahhhhhh) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> we have expanded it a bit more so if you want to take >>>>>>>>> another look ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/29/07, Barrie Ellis >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Short and sweetly: Looks very good to me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Barrie >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:28 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hello >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I and Eelke have come up with this draft for our proposal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Designers_Creative_Toolbox >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> any comments and feedback welcome >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>>> Thomas and Eelke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>> VD/CEO >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pin Interactive AB >>>>>>>>>> :: Digital Culture Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Award Winning Developer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> www.pininteractive.com >>>>>>>>>> +46 (0)706 400 402 >>>>>>>>>> Skype: thomaswestin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- >>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>> Department of CS&E/171 >>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 05:53:52 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 04:53:52 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: <570BD2B2-5EAE-4AEB-B221-FA021E37C848@pininteractive.com> References: <257101c80299$793 a60e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300709291520l48163a88xd8b0b98b71624fa4@mai l.gmail.com><836db6300709301944p1a2a2 dcbx368ffb850c7675ec@mail.gmail.com>< 836db6300709302024q5a08e092o2db1c4d8279bca1f@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail. gmail.com><9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com> <570BD2B2-5EAE-4AEB-B221-FA021E37C848@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: I'm putting you guys in for 60. >yes > >just so I know, is it a 60 minute or 20 minute we get? > >/thomas > >1 okt 2007 kl. 11.36 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >>20 hours to go...actually less. Gotta put the sexy in the proposals now! >> >>>Hello Eelke, >>> >>>20 minutes is a bit tight I think, just to show the Cyberlink and >>>explain how it works and show the Jedi example; I think that will >>>take 10-15 minutes alone >>> >>>Then we have the Half-life 2 one-button, to start the game, and >>>show examples and explain how to do it will take some time too, >>>not sure exactly but my guess is 10 minutes? >>> >>>Also, AudiOdyssey and Wiimote - is Eitan with us? You mentioned an >>>idea to include him too >>> >>>I am also planning (if I get permission) to talk about a contract >>>game we (pin) are making >>> >>>and I think we have a lot other things to talk about; e.g how to >>>utilize mainstream hardware for accessibility >>> >>>So I'd say _at least_ 45 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes >>>for discussion with the audience, and a 5 minutes buffer for >>>technical issues which almost always arise >>> >>>/thomas >>> >>> >>> >>>1 okt 2007 kl. 05.57 skrev Eelke Folmer: >>> >>>>ow my bad.... ;-) >>>> >>>>cheers Eelke >>>> >>>> >>>>On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>Uh...I think we have proposal mix up. This was about the talk you and >>>>>Thomas are doing. >>>>> >>>>>Now 20 minutes for the business one, yes, that seems sufficient. >>>>> >>>>>Michelle >>>>> >>>>>>Hmmm well I don't know 20 minutes seems sufficient. It's not rocket >>>>>>science. ;-) >>>>>>Cliff Blezinsky gave a Gears of War postmortem in 60 minutes last year >>>>>>as a comparison and we don't have nearly as much material. 20 minutes >>>>>>is enough time to bring the message and still deliver something that >>>>>>is high quality. I rather go slightly over 20 minutes than only have >>>>>>40 minutes of material and then bore my audience to death for the >>>>>>remainder. >>>>>> >>>>>>Then again I can only speak for myself and Reid might have a >>>>>>different opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>>cheers eelke >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>> Keep in mind that there are VERY few 20 minute slots. I don't know >>>>>>> the number but they are warning us about them having worse odds than >>>>>>> the 60 minute slots. Do you think that you can do justice to all of >>>>>>> these things in 20 minutes? It seems to me that you would be really, >>>>>>> really rushed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>A 20 minute talk is sufficient and is likelier to be accepted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>the title changes are good. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>cheers Eelke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On 9/29/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> How did you envision this talk? As a panel? A 20 minute or 60 minute >>>>>>>>> talk? A roundtable? I'm thinking a 60 minute talk but I want to be >>>>>>>>> sure that's what you were thinking too. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We need to work on the title a bit -- it's a little vague. Basically >>>>>>>>> we need something that says what the talk is about and/or is enticing >>>>>>>>> enough to look up the abstract for when they are glancing through the >>>>>>>>> title cards on display at GDC. Thomas had a good idea about >>>>>>>>> emphasizing the "Jedi" bit -- maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: >>>>>>>>> Designers Creative & Accessible Toolbox" -- or just accessible or >>>>>>>>> just creative? Or maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: Creative and >>>>>>>>> Accessible Design Tools"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michelle >>>>>>>>> (who is on 11th hour "GDC think" -- like "doublethink" but less >>>>>>>>> scary...I think...I think again...ahhhhhh) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>we have expanded it a bit more so if you want to take >>>>>>>>>>another look ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>cheers Eelke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On 9/29/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Short and sweetly: Looks very good to me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Barrie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:28 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hello >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I and Eelke have come up with this draft for our proposal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Designers_Creative_Toolbox >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> any comments and feedback welcome >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Thomas and Eelke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>>> VD/CEO >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pin Interactive AB >>>>>>>>>>> :: Digital Culture Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Award Winning Developer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> www.pininteractive.com >>>>>>>>>>> +46 (0)706 400 402 >>>>>>>>>>> Skype: thomaswestin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 06:12:32 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:12:32 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal In-Reply-To: References: <257101c80299$793a60e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300709291520l48163a88xd8b0b98b71624fa4@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709301944p1a2a2dcbx368ffb850c7675ec@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302024q5a08e092o2db1c4d8279bca1f@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302057s38e1bbd6hac014d5154e61191@mail.gmail.com><9CD6B11A-CEB2-42BE-AD3A-A36D5F033252@pininteractive.com><570BD2B2-5EAE-4AEB-B221-FA021E37C848@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <6612063A-9560-42F4-A122-D594FC0CC7D0@pininteractive.com> OK! /thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 11.53 skrev d. michelle hinn: > I'm putting you guys in for 60. > >> yes >> >> just so I know, is it a 60 minute or 20 minute we get? >> >> /thomas >> >> 1 okt 2007 kl. 11.36 skrev d. michelle hinn: >> >>> 20 hours to go...actually less. Gotta put the sexy in the >>> proposals now! >>> >>>> Hello Eelke, >>>> >>>> 20 minutes is a bit tight I think, just to show the Cyberlink >>>> and explain how it works and show the Jedi example; I think that >>>> will take 10-15 minutes alone >>>> >>>> Then we have the Half-life 2 one-button, to start the game, and >>>> show examples and explain how to do it will take some time too, >>>> not sure exactly but my guess is 10 minutes? >>>> >>>> Also, AudiOdyssey and Wiimote - is Eitan with us? You mentioned >>>> an idea to include him too >>>> >>>> I am also planning (if I get permission) to talk about a >>>> contract game we (pin) are making >>>> >>>> and I think we have a lot other things to talk about; e.g how to >>>> utilize mainstream hardware for accessibility >>>> >>>> So I'd say _at least_ 45 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes >>>> for discussion with the audience, and a 5 minutes buffer for >>>> technical issues which almost always arise >>>> >>>> /thomas >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1 okt 2007 kl. 05.57 skrev Eelke Folmer: >>>> >>>>> ow my bad.... ;-) >>>>> >>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>> Uh...I think we have proposal mix up. This was about the talk >>>>>> you and >>>>>> Thomas are doing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now 20 minutes for the business one, yes, that seems sufficient. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michelle >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmmm well I don't know 20 minutes seems sufficient. It's not >>>>>>> rocket >>>>>>> science. ;-) >>>>>>> Cliff Blezinsky gave a Gears of War postmortem in 60 minutes >>>>>>> last year >>>>>>> as a comparison and we don't have nearly as much material. 20 >>>>>>> minutes >>>>>>> is enough time to bring the message and still deliver >>>>>>> something that >>>>>>> is high quality. I rather go slightly over 20 minutes than >>>>>>> only have >>>>>>> 40 minutes of material and then bore my audience to death for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> remainder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then again I can only speak for myself and Reid might have a >>>>>>> different opinion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers eelke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/30/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>>> Keep in mind that there are VERY few 20 minute slots. I >>>>>>>> don't know >>>>>>>> the number but they are warning us about them having worse >>>>>>>> odds than >>>>>>>> the 60 minute slots. Do you think that you can do justice >>>>>>>> to all of >>>>>>>> these things in 20 minutes? It seems to me that you would >>>>>>>> be really, >>>>>>>> really rushed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A 20 minute talk is sufficient and is likelier to be accepted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the title changes are good. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/29/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> How did you envision this talk? As a panel? A 20 minute >>>>>>>>>> or 60 minute >>>>>>>>>> talk? A roundtable? I'm thinking a 60 minute talk but I >>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>> sure that's what you were thinking too. :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We need to work on the title a bit -- it's a little >>>>>>>>>> vague. Basically >>>>>>>>>> we need something that says what the talk is about and/or >>>>>>>>>> is enticing >>>>>>>>>> enough to look up the abstract for when they are glancing >>>>>>>>>> through the >>>>>>>>>> title cards on display at GDC. Thomas had a good idea about >>>>>>>>>> emphasizing the "Jedi" bit -- maybe "Turning Gamers into >>>>>>>>>> Jedis: >>>>>>>>>> Designers Creative & Accessible Toolbox" -- or just >>>>>>>>>> accessible or >>>>>>>>>> just creative? Or maybe "Turning Gamers into Jedis: >>>>>>>>>> Creative and >>>>>>>>>> Accessible Design Tools"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Michelle >>>>>>>>>> (who is on 11th hour "GDC think" -- like "doublethink" >>>>>>>>>> but less >>>>>>>>>> scary...I think...I think again...ahhhhhh) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> we have expanded it a bit more so if you want to take >>>>>>>>>>> another look ;-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cheers Eelke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/07, Barrie Ellis >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Short and sweetly: Looks very good to me. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Barrie >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:28 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] GDC 2008 SIG proposal >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> hello >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I and Eelke have come up with this draft for our proposal >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Designers_Creative_Toolbox >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> any comments and feedback welcome >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas and Eelke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Westin >>>>>>>>>>>> VD/CEO >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pin Interactive AB >>>>>>>>>>>> :: Digital Culture Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Award Winning Developer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> www.pininteractive.com >>>>>>>>>>>> +46 (0)706 400 402 >>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: thomaswestin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>> Department of CS&E/171 >>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---------- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 08:18:26 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 07:18:26 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Final Edits Before GDC Submission In-Reply-To: <836db6300709281133q68e31d0dya20f31f6f28a835a@mail.gmail.com> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <6A85FBD3-CE1B-41D4-BEBB-713738F45499@pininteractive.com> <836db6300709281133q68e31d0dya20f31f6f28a835a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, So here we are...less than 17 hours before the proposal deadline. I've been working most of the night on my own proposals for the SIG (still working...it's getting weird around here ;) ) If you are involved in one or all or any of the following proposals, please let me know as soon as possible when you have looked at your proposal for the last time so that I can sweep through with final edits and tweaks and submit the final version. In fact...tell me ASAP WHEN you think you WILL have this done by so I can better plan the day. If you've done all you can, just let me know and I'll finish it up. Please...try not to do your final touches at 11pm NYC time...that will probably kill me. Ok, these are the proposals that I'm unsure of whether or not people have just said "enough already" or are planning to make more changes today: * Selling more games by adding CC (Business and Management Track/20 Minute Lecture with Reid/Eelke) * Creating Dynamic Closed Captioning Systems (Programming Track/60 Minute Lecture with Reid + TBA -- note were you able to contact your colleague at HL2?) * Turning Gamers Into Jedis Using Creative And Accessible Design Tools (Design Track/60 Minute Lecture with Thomas/Eelke) * 10 Key Points To Game Accessibility (Design Track/60 Minute Lecture with Michelle/Richard/Dimitris) Thanks! Michelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Oct 1 12:56:10 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:56:10 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to difficult 6.. make interface fonts scalable 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > >Sweet ! >> >>Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >>and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >>their asses at our talks? > > Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is > first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed > me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! > Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed > at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) > >>What we need: >>- cool shirts > > So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop > around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and > where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever > there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices > for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. > :D > > Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It > might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on > black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We > definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know > where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. > >>- if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. > > hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we > can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the > booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as > baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered > that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe > the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make > lifesize cutouts of? Lol. > >>- brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >>pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >>on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >>what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >>suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >>the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >> 1. Closed captions >> 2. Customizable controls >> 3. Slow >> 4. Assists >> 5. x >> 6. x >> 7. x >> 8. x >> 9.x >>10. x > > Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but > I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it > though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe > take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can > be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can > start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote > on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the > sig site. > > I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that > we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of > attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. > > So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in > place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop > proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but > networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people > into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that > happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap > cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong > marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! > > Kick. Ass. :D > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 17:26:01 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:26:01 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know Reid's on the case too. I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already went into the system will be automatically rejected because the education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC pass thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth only lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... Michelle From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 17:26:41 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:26:41 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Final Edits Before GDC Submission In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><6A85FBD3-CE1B-41D4-BEBB-713738F45499@pininteractive.com><836db6300709281133q68e31d0dya20f31f6f28a835a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <922A203A-A2AE-4B8B-9381-BB67582B4D92@pininteractive.com> I'm done. Eelke? /thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 14.18 skrev d. michelle hinn: > > * Turning Gamers Into Jedis Using Creative And Accessible > Design Tools (Design Track/60 Minute Lecture with Thomas/Eelke) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 17:46:33 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:46:33 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> Hi Michelle I'm not certain exactly what you refer to with flesh out, but I can read through the Jedi thing once more and see if I can improve some things. Kind regards Thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 23.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: > So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn > in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know > Reid's on the case too. > > I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already > went into the system will be automatically rejected because the > education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're > already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes > that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC pass > thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth only > lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't pay for > us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is attached to > any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up or it won't > make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's taking me about > 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From glinert at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 1 17:51:57 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:51:57 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071001175036.037cd650@po12.mit.edu> I'm changing parts of my submission so that it doesn't overlap as much as it did before. I'm going to focus a bit more on the rapid development end, the wiimote-flash interactions, etc. Hope that helps! Eitan At 05:26 PM 10/1/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn in most >of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know Reid's on the >case too. > >I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already went >into the system will be automatically rejected because the education >people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're already down one and >we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes that we'll get some accepted >so that we actually get those GDC pass thingees that let us in. >Remember...an expo pass for a booth only lets us into the expo. And a lot >of our institutions won't pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So >if your name is attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets >wrapped up or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's >taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... > >Michelle >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 18:01:07 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:01:07 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006e01c80476$931220f0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, Going to give the 10 key points proposal one push forward now. Michelle, could you perhaps keep track of a list ON the wiki which proposals are already rejected? Or is it only the educational one? Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:26 PM Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! > So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn in most > of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know Reid's on the > case too. > > I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already went > into the system will be automatically rejected because the education > people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're already down one and > we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes that we'll get some accepted > so that we actually get those GDC pass thingees that let us in. > Remember...an expo pass for a booth only lets us into the expo. And a lot > of our institutions won't pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So > if your name is attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets > wrapped up or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's > taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Oct 1 18:01:52 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:01:52 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help isneeded! In-Reply-To: <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> OK I've made some minor edits, most notably I changed, in the extended abstract, "discuss" to "show examples" since I think that is more what we are going to do, and running examples tend to attract developers more than just discussion apart from that I think the text answers to all of the questions asked. /Thomas 1 okt 2007 kl. 23.46 skrev Thomas Westin: > Hi Michelle > > I'm not certain exactly what you refer to with flesh out, but I can > read through the Jedi thing once more and see if I can improve some > things. > > Kind regards > Thomas > > 1 okt 2007 kl. 23.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >> So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn >> in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know >> Reid's on the case too. >> >> I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already >> went into the system will be automatically rejected because the >> education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're >> already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes >> that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC >> pass thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth >> only lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't >> pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is >> attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up >> or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's >> taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... >> >> Michelle >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 18:38:13 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:38:13 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Hi Barrie, That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad controller or a one button might help visualize the actual accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others have some good ideas? cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: > Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten > > Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf > 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped > 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects > 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) > 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) > 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to > difficult > 6.. make interface fonts scalable > 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes > 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, > resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D > 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed > 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging > Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, > 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced > controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - > this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. > > Barrie > www.OneSwitch.org.uk > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d. michelle hinn" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > > > > >Sweet ! > >> > >>Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force > >>and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get > >>their asses at our talks? > > > > Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is > > first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed > > me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! > > Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed > > at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) > > > >>What we need: > >>- cool shirts > > > > So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop > > around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and > > where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever > > there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices > > for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. > > :D > > > > Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It > > might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on > > black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us > > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We > > definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know > > where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. > > > >>- if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. > > > > hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we > > can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the > > booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as > > baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered > > that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe > > the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make > > lifesize cutouts of? Lol. > > > >>- brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be > >>pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration > >>on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on > >>what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I > >>suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to > >>the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): > >> 1. Closed captions > >> 2. Customizable controls > >> 3. Slow > >> 4. Assists > >> 5. x > >> 6. x > >> 7. x > >> 8. x > >> 9.x > >>10. x > > > > Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but > > I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it > > though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe > > take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can > > be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can > > start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote > > on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the > > sig site. > > > > I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that > > we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of > > attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. > > > > So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in > > place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop > > proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but > > networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people > > into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that > > happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap > > cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong > > marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! > > > > Kick. Ass. :D > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From g.mcallister at sussex.ac.uk Mon Oct 1 18:51:35 2007 From: g.mcallister at sussex.ac.uk (Graham McAllister) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:51:35 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. Graham. Graham McAllister, Ph.D. University of Sussex Interact Lab +44 1273 877267 On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Hi Barrie, > > That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something > of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much > easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial > agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to > relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why > is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad > controller or a one button might help visualize the actual > accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about > why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for > 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual > problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others > have some good ideas? > > cheers Eelke > > > On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >> Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten >> >> Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf >> 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped >> 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound- >> effects >> 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain- >> text) >> 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) >> 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly >> simple to >> difficult >> 6.. make interface fonts scalable >> 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes >> 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, >> items, >> resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D >> 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed >> 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging >> Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being >> 1, 4, 5, >> 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced >> controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic- >> arts.html - >> this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight >> this need. >> >> Barrie >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks >> >> >>>> Sweet ! >>>> >>>> Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task >>>> force >>>> and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and >>>> get >>>> their asses at our talks? >>> >>> Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task >>> force is >>> first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as >>> Richard dubbed >>> me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the >>> word! >>> Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks >>> and pointed >>> at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >>> >>>> What we need: >>>> - cool shirts >>> >>> So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going >>> to shop >>> around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt >>> and >>> where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? >>> Wherever >>> there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare >>> prices >>> for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the >>> ghosts. >>> :D >>> >>> Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to >>> me. It >>> might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on >>> black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you >>> help us >>> tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on >>> black? We >>> definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I >>> don't know >>> where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >>> >>>> - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >>> >>> hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out >>> where we >>> can find a set of really good looking people who all want to >>> stand at the >>> booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best >>> to be as >>> baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just >>> remembered >>> that my class is making an accessible game with sexual >>> themes...well maybe >>> the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make >>> lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >>> >>>> - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that >>>> can be >>>> pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate >>>> inspiration >>>> on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >>>> what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >>>> suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a >>>> link to >>>> the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >>>> 1. Closed captions >>>> 2. Customizable controls >>>> 3. Slow >>>> 4. Assists >>>> 5. x >>>> 6. x >>>> 7. x >>>> 8. x >>>> 9.x >>>> 10. x >>> >>> Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki >>> too but >>> I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it >>> though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So >>> maybe >>> take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see >>> what can >>> be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we >>> can >>> start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can >>> discuss/vote >>> on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be >>> on the >>> sig site. >>> >>> I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped >>> now that >>> we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" >>> plan of >>> attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. >>> >>> So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real >>> plan in >>> place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason >>> to drop >>> proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too >>> -- but >>> networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get >>> more people >>> into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that >>> happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you >>> to swap >>> cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong >>> marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! >>> >>> Kick. Ass. :D >>> >>> Michelle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 18:53:45 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:53:45 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008001c8047d$ebd224e0$6402a8c0@Delletje> And point 8 still sucks BIG TIME... seriously!!!!!!!!! 1) "add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc)" - what exactly is an audio tag? A continuous sound loop? 2) "true spatial 3D" - spatial 3D isn't a term. It is either 3D audio or spatial audio. - why exactly spatial/3D audio and not simply mono? Does Tetris need 5.1 sound mixing?! - ??? true?!? it is either virtual 3D audio or physical 3D audio (but not TRUE 3D audio...) A better description would be something along the lines of: - Add auditory alternatives for significant visual information. However, this is still tooo vague. Also... what are "interface fonts". Isn't this just "fonts"? I'd stick with Michelle's description of "10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game." Maybe get rid of multi-interpretational lingo, and stick more to design solutions that are already proven (basically design patterns). "Audio tags added to significant elements in 3D spatial audio" is simply not a proven technique. Well, with SudoSan I pretty much proved that the technique doesn't neccessarily work, and I guess AGRIP Accessible Quake proved the same thing. So I suggest we stick with stuff from which we know it works, and be as unambiguous as possible. So simple say things like "fonts" instead of "interface fonts". Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > Hi Barrie, > > That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something > of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much > easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial > agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to > relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why > is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad > controller or a one button might help visualize the actual > accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about > why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for > 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual > problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others > have some good ideas? > > cheers Eelke > > > On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >> Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten >> >> Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf >> 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped >> 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects >> 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) >> 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) >> 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple >> to >> difficult >> 6.. make interface fonts scalable >> 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes >> 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, >> resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D >> 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed >> 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging >> Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, >> 5, >> 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced >> controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - >> this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this >> need. >> >> Barrie >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks >> >> >> > >Sweet ! >> >> >> >>Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >> >>and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >> >>their asses at our talks? >> > >> > Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is >> > first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard >> > dubbed >> > me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! >> > Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and >> > pointed >> > at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >> > >> >>What we need: >> >>- cool shirts >> > >> > So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to >> > shop >> > around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and >> > where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? >> > Wherever >> > there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices >> > for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the >> > ghosts. >> > :D >> > >> > Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It >> > might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on >> > black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us >> > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? >> > We >> > definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't >> > know >> > where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >> > >> >>- if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >> > >> > hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where >> > we >> > can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at >> > the >> > booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be >> > as >> > baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just >> > remembered >> > that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well >> > maybe >> > the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make >> > lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >> > >> >>- brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >> >>pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >> >>on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >> >>what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >> >>suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >> >>the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >> >> 1. Closed captions >> >> 2. Customizable controls >> >> 3. Slow >> >> 4. Assists >> >> 5. x >> >> 6. x >> >> 7. x >> >> 8. x >> >> 9.x >> >>10. x >> > >> > Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too >> > but >> > I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it >> > though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe >> > take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what >> > can >> > be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can >> > start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can >> > discuss/vote >> > on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on >> > the >> > sig site. >> > >> > I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now >> > that >> > we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan >> > of >> > attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. >> > >> > So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in >> > place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop >> > proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- >> > but >> > networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more >> > people >> > into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that >> > happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap >> > cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong >> > marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! >> > >> > Kick. Ass. :D >> > >> > Michelle >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 18:54:07 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:54:07 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008f01c8047d$f8ffdcc0$6402a8c0@Delletje> No worries, we know it! Welcome to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham McAllister To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list Hi All, If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. Graham. Graham McAllister, Ph.D. University of Sussex Interact Lab +44 1273 877267 On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: Hi Barrie, That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad controller or a one button might help visualize the actual accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others have some good ideas? cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to difficult 6.. make interface fonts scalable 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks Sweet ! Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get their asses at our talks? Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) What we need: - cool shirts So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. :D Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make lifesize cutouts of? Lol. - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): 1. Closed captions 2. Customizable controls 3. Slow 4. Assists 5. x 6. x 7. x 8. x 9.x 10. x Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the sig site. I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! Kick. Ass. :D Michelle _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 18:57:39 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:57:39 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help isneeded! In-Reply-To: <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710011557scdd527agce355c2dfa2dd4fc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michelle, I'm swamped with teaching as usual but if anything needs any direct attention I can help out after 8.15 PM PCT cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > OK I've made some minor edits, most notably I changed, in the > extended abstract, "discuss" to "show examples" since I think that is > more what we are going to do, and running examples tend to attract > developers more than just discussion > > apart from that I think the text answers to all of the questions asked. > > /Thomas > > 1 okt 2007 kl. 23.46 skrev Thomas Westin: > > > Hi Michelle > > > > I'm not certain exactly what you refer to with flesh out, but I can > > read through the Jedi thing once more and see if I can improve some > > things. > > > > Kind regards > > Thomas > > > > 1 okt 2007 kl. 23.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: > > > >> So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn > >> in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know > >> Reid's on the case too. > >> > >> I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already > >> went into the system will be automatically rejected because the > >> education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're > >> already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes > >> that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC > >> pass thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth > >> only lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't > >> pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is > >> attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up > >> or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's > >> taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... > >> > >> Michelle > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From glinert at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 1 19:01:58 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:01:58 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help isneeded! In-Reply-To: <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Hi, I just submitted the AudiOdyssey Post Mortem. I made a bunch of changes so it shouldn't overlap that much with what everyone else is submitting (hopefully). I've attached it below in case anyone is interested. Michelle and Eelke, thanks so much for all your help and feedback. Everyone, please let me know if there's anything I can do to help your submissions before the deadline. Eitan ---------- Title: AudiOdyssey Post Mortem - How to Make a Wiimote Controlled Accessible PC Game Track, Format, Theme, Audience Level: Game Design - 1st, Vision - 2nd 60 Minute Lecture Experimental Open to all experience levels Session Overview (50 words): AudiOdyssey is a downloadable prototype rhythm game which is usable by both sighted and non-sighted audiences. This session covers what went right and wrong in AudiOdyssey's development, why industry should care about disabled gamers, and tips for rapidly prototyping similar games. Concise Presentation Description (100 words): This past year, a small team at the Singapore-MIT GAMBIT Game Lab created AudiOdyssey, a prototype accessible video game designed for the visually impaired. A PC game, it opens up new, expressive interfaces to the blind by allowing for multiple control schemes, including the Wiimote. This session details the research behind the project, the production and design challenges the team faced, pitfalls and how they were (or weren?t) overcome, and provides advice for others looking to create similar games. The talk includes a live demonstration. Intended Audience and Prereqs (40 words): This talk is focused on design and intended for game designers, producers, academics, and people interested in experimental game design. No experience is required. Session Takeaway (40 words): - It is possible to make games that are both accessible and still enjoyable to mainstream gamers - Rapidly prototyping innovative game design ideas with a ?less is more? philosophy ultimately leads to better, and more original, video games Extended abstract (500 words): Until recently non-casual gaming has been dominated by young men, with other groups comprising a relatively small portion of the market. Over the past few years, though, there has been an industry wide push to bring traditionally non-gaming demographics into the fold, with concerted commercial efforts to make and market games for women, the elderly, and the very young. However, the disabled have consistently been left out of such growth, and today there are few accessible games. This is curious, as a huge percentage of people suffer from disabilities - according to the 2000 US Census, 18.6% of citizens aged 16 to 64 suffer from some form of disability (granted, many of these individuals are in the higher segment of the age range). This is bizarre ? how can the industry ignore such a large potential market share? Many game developers rationalize this trend by arguing that accessible games tend to perform poorly in mainstream audiences, as the games are generally inferior to non-accessible productions. The MIT GAMBIT games lab doesn?t buy into that reasoning. Believing there is a huge demand for accessible games, the lab created AudiOdyssey, a prototype game that is accessible to BOTH the visually impaired and the sighted mainstream. AudiOdyssey's development had four research goals, namely: - Implementing a game design that allows visually impaired and sighted users to play the game in the same way, with the same level of challenge, and share a common gaming experience. - Designing online multiplayer that allows for identity masking, at least in the sense that users in remote locations should not be aware of the visual status of their gaming counterpart. - Designing alternative control schemes for improved accessibility to the visually impaired. - Creating a fun, engaging game that relies on audio more than visuals to simulate an exciting experience. Over a rapid, summer-long development cycle, a small team of eight undergraduates and graduates took AudiOdyssey from research idea to implemented prototype. Overall, development was very successful ? Wiimote controls were added to allow for a more expressive interface, spatial sound output was used to give cues to the user, and visually impaired users were consulted to make sure the final product was usable by everyone, regardless of their level of sight. Unfortunately, parts of development proved problematic, and the team was forced to drop multiplayer, made poor choices about sound formats, and failed to add adjustable difficulty prior to release. Given by AudiOdyssey?s project lead, the GDC presentation will be a lively discussion covering how the research goals for the project were picked, the experimental game development process, and motivation for why similar games should be created. Attention will be paid to which parts of the process worked, which didn't, and why they didn't. Pitfalls in accessible game development will be explored thoroughly. The talk will also cover formal testing results (taking place in late October), and conclude with a live demo of the game and a Q + A session. Presentation Materials (400 CHARS): QuickTime, Powerpoint & Projector Live Demonstration of AudiOdyssey (we will provide laptop and wiimote, we only need AV cables) Past Speaking Engagements (800 CHARS): "Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video Game", at Games for Health, May 9th, 2006 "Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video Game", at Games for Health, Sept. 29th, 2006 Contact for Games for Health Talks: Ben Sawyer, bsawyer at dmill.com, Co-Founder of Digital Mill, organizer for Serious Games Summits "Immune Attack: An Educational Video Game", at the National Science Foundation, May 31st, 2006 No Contact Info Available Accepted Talks: "AudiOdyssey: An Accessible Game for Both Sighted and Non-Sighted Gamers", at FuturePlay, Nov 2007 Contact: Dr. Bill Kapralos and Jim Parker, Bill.Kapralos at uoit.ca and jparker at ucalgary.ca Recent CNN article on AudiOdyssey and GAMBIT: http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/09/02/video.blind/ At 06:01 PM 10/1/2007, Thomas Westin wrote: >OK I've made some minor edits, most notably I changed, in the >extended abstract, "discuss" to "show examples" since I think that is >more what we are going to do, and running examples tend to attract >developers more than just discussion > >apart from that I think the text answers to all of the questions asked. > >/Thomas > >1 okt 2007 kl. 23.46 skrev Thomas Westin: > >>Hi Michelle >> >>I'm not certain exactly what you refer to with flesh out, but I can >>read through the Jedi thing once more and see if I can improve some >>things. >> >>Kind regards >>Thomas >> >>1 okt 2007 kl. 23.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: >> >>>So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn >>>in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know >>>Reid's on the case too. >>> >>>I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already >>>went into the system will be automatically rejected because the >>>education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're >>>already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes >>>that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC >>>pass thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth >>>only lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't >>>pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is >>>attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up >>>or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's >>>taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... >>> >>>Michelle >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 19:05:30 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 01:05:30 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi again, Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of Eelke, the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, each one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it is still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham McAllister To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list Hi All, If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. Graham. Graham McAllister, Ph.D. University of Sussex Interact Lab +44 1273 877267 On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: Hi Barrie, That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad controller or a one button might help visualize the actual accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others have some good ideas? cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to difficult 6.. make interface fonts scalable 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks Sweet ! Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get their asses at our talks? Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) What we need: - cool shirts So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. :D Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make lifesize cutouts of? Lol. - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): 1. Closed captions 2. Customizable controls 3. Slow 4. Assists 5. x 6. x 7. x 8. x 9.x 10. x Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the sig site. I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! Kick. Ass. :D Michelle _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 1 19:33:34 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 01:33:34 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> <105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> got an old version here: http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/gatheory/gatheoryshort012_2OLD.zip ----- Original Message ----- From: AudioGames.net To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list Hi again, Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of Eelke, the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, each one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it is still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham McAllister To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list Hi All, If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. Graham. Graham McAllister, Ph.D. University of Sussex Interact Lab +44 1273 877267 On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: Hi Barrie, That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad controller or a one button might help visualize the actual accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others have some good ideas? cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to difficult 6.. make interface fonts scalable 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks Sweet ! Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get their asses at our talks? Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) What we need: - cool shirts So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. :D Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make lifesize cutouts of? Lol. - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): 1. Closed captions 2. Customizable controls 3. Slow 4. Assists 5. x 6. x 7. x 8. x 9.x 10. x Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the sig site. I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! Kick. Ass. :D Michelle _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 22:54:50 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:54:50 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302055m644128m166d4bb324daa724@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No worries! Yep, we know Dimitris -- he's a member of our gang! :) And...welcome to our gang Graham! Michelle >Hi All, > >If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris >Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible >Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG >today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this >already. > >Graham. > >Graham McAllister, Ph.D. >University of Sussex >Interact Lab >+44 1273 877267 > > > >On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: > >>Hi Barrie, >> >>That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something >>of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much >>easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial >>agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to >>relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why >>is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad >>controller or a one button might help visualize the actual >>accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about >>why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for >>2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual >>problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others >>have some good ideas? >> >>cheers Eelke >> >> >>On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis >><barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> >>wrote: >> >>>Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: >>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten >>> >>>Most up to date version here: >>>http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf >>> 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped >>> 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects >>> 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) >>> 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) >>> 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to >>>difficult >>> 6.. make interface fonts scalable >>> 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes >>> 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, >>>resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D >>> 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed >>> 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging >>>Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, >>>9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced >>>controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: >>>http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html >>>- >>>this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. >>> >>>Barrie >>>www.OneSwitch.org.uk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu> >>>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>><games_access at igda.org> >>>Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM >>>Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks >>> >>> >>>>>Sweet ! >>>>> >>>>>Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >>>>>and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >>>>>their asses at our talks? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is >>>>first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed >>>>me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! >>>>Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed >>>>at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >>>> >>>>>What we need: >>>>>- cool shirts >>>>> >>>> >>>>So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop >>>>around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and >>>>where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever >>>>there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices >>>>for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. >>>>:D >>>> >>>>Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It >>>>might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on >>>>black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us >>>>tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We >>>>definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know >>>>where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >>>> >>>>>- if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >>>>> >>>> >>>>hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we >>>>can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the >>>>booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as >>>>baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered >>>>that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe >>>>the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make >>>>lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >>>> >>>>>- brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >>>>>pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >>>>>on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >>>>>what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >>>>>suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >>>>>the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >>>>> 1. Closed captions >>>>> 2. Customizable controls >>>>> 3. Slow >>>>> 4. Assists >>>>> 5. x >>>>> 6. x >>>>> 7. x >>>>> 8. x >>>>> 9.x >>>>>10. x >>>>> >>>> >>>>Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but >>>>I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it >>>>though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe >>>>take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can >>>>be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can >>>>start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote >>>>on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the >>>>sig site. >>>> >>>>I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that >>>>we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of >>>>attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. >>>> >>>>So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in >>>>place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop >>>>proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but >>>>networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people >>>>into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that >>>>happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap >>>>cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong >>>>marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! >>>> >>>>Kick. Ass. :D >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 23:11:14 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:11:14 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help is needed! In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071001175036.037cd650@po12.mit.edu> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001175036.037cd650@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: Ah thanks for that Eitan. Since the GDC people are used to us explaining the need for accessibility they might get confused that they looked too much alike. But no worries.. >I'm changing parts of my submission so that it doesn't overlap as >much as it did before. I'm going to focus a bit more on the rapid >development end, the wiimote-flash interactions, etc. Hope that >helps! >Eitan > >At 05:26 PM 10/1/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn >>in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know >>Reid's on the case too. >> >>I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already >>went into the system will be automatically rejected because the >>education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're >>already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes >>that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC pass >>thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth only >>lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't pay for >>us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is attached to >>any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up or it won't >>make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's taking me about >>30 minutes to turn in each proposal... >> >>Michelle >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 1 23:15:50 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:15:50 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC deadline in less than 8 hours and help isneeded! In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: No problem! With 45 minutes left to go I think we'll get the ones in we need to and then we can look at the indie and serious summits. >Hi, > >I just submitted the AudiOdyssey Post Mortem. I >made a bunch of changes so it shouldn't overlap >that much with what everyone else is submitting >(hopefully). I've attached it below in case >anyone is interested. > >Michelle and Eelke, thanks so much for all your >help and feedback. Everyone, please let me know >if there's anything I can do to help your >submissions before the deadline. > >Eitan > >---------- >Title: >AudiOdyssey Post Mortem - How to Make a Wiimote Controlled Accessible PC Game > > > >Track, Format, Theme, Audience Level: >Game Design - 1st, Vision - 2nd >60 Minute Lecture >Experimental >Open to all experience levels > > > >Session Overview (50 words): >AudiOdyssey is a downloadable prototype rhythm >game which is usable by both sighted and >non-sighted audiences. This session covers what >went right and wrong in AudiOdyssey's >development, why industry should care about >disabled gamers, and tips for rapidly >prototyping similar games. > > > >Concise Presentation Description (100 words): >This past year, a small team at the >Singapore-MIT GAMBIT Game Lab created >AudiOdyssey, a prototype accessible video game >designed for the visually impaired. A PC game, >it opens up new, expressive interfaces to the >blind by allowing for multiple control schemes, >including the Wiimote. This session details the >research behind the project, the production and >design challenges the team faced, pitfalls and >how they were (or weren?t) overcome, and >provides advice for others looking to create >similar games. The talk includes a live >demonstration. > > >Intended Audience and Prereqs (40 words): >This talk is focused on design and intended for >game designers, producers, academics, and people >interested in experimental game design. No >experience is required. > > > >Session Takeaway (40 words): >- It is possible to make games that are both >accessible and still enjoyable to mainstream >gamers >- Rapidly prototyping innovative game design >ideas with a ?less is more? philosophy >ultimately leads to better, and more original, >video games > > > >Extended abstract (500 words): > >Until recently non-casual gaming has been >dominated by young men, with other groups >comprising a relatively small portion of the >market. Over the past few years, though, there >has been an industry wide push to bring >traditionally non-gaming demographics into the >fold, with concerted commercial efforts to make >and market games for women, the elderly, and the >very young. However, the disabled have >consistently been left out of such growth, and >today there are few accessible games. This is >curious, as a huge percentage of people suffer >from disabilities - according to the 2000 US >Census, 18.6% of citizens aged 16 to 64 suffer >from some form of disability (granted, many of >these individuals are in the higher segment of >the age range). > >This is bizarre ? how can the industry ignore >such a large potential market share? Many game >developers rationalize this trend by arguing >that accessible games tend to perform poorly in >mainstream audiences, as the games are generally >inferior to non-accessible productions. The MIT >GAMBIT games lab doesn?t buy into that >reasoning. Believing there is a huge demand for >accessible games, the lab created AudiOdyssey, a >prototype game that is accessible to BOTH the >visually impaired and the sighted mainstream. > >AudiOdyssey's development had four research goals, namely: > >- Implementing a game design that allows >visually impaired and sighted users to play the >game in the same way, with the same level of >challenge, and share a common gaming experience. >- Designing online multiplayer that allows for >identity masking, at least in the sense that >users in remote locations should not be aware of >the visual status of their gaming counterpart. >- Designing alternative control schemes for >improved accessibility to the visually impaired. >- Creating a fun, engaging game that relies on >audio more than visuals to simulate an exciting >experience. > >Over a rapid, summer-long development cycle, a >small team of eight undergraduates and graduates >took AudiOdyssey from research idea to >implemented prototype. Overall, development was >very successful ? Wiimote controls were added to >allow for a more expressive interface, spatial >sound output was used to give cues to the user, >and visually impaired users were consulted to >make sure the final product was usable by >everyone, regardless of their level of sight. >Unfortunately, parts of development proved >problematic, and the team was forced to drop >multiplayer, made poor choices about sound >formats, and failed to add adjustable difficulty >prior to release. > >Given by AudiOdyssey?s project lead, the GDC >presentation will be a lively discussion >covering how the research goals for the project >were picked, the experimental game development >process, and motivation for why similar games >should be created. Attention will be paid to >which parts of the process worked, which didn't, >and why they didn't. Pitfalls in accessible game >development will be explored thoroughly. The >talk will also cover formal testing results >(taking place in late October), and conclude >with a live demo of the game and a Q + A session. > > > > >Presentation Materials (400 CHARS): >QuickTime, Powerpoint & Projector >Live Demonstration of AudiOdyssey (we will >provide laptop and wiimote, we only need AV >cables) > > > >Past Speaking Engagements (800 CHARS): >"Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video >Game", at Games for Health, May 9th, 2006 >"Immune Attack: Teaching Biology in a Video >Game", at Games for Health, Sept. 29th, 2006 >Contact for Games for Health Talks: >Ben Sawyer, bsawyer at dmill.com, Co-Founder of >Digital Mill, organizer for Serious Games Summits > >"Immune Attack: An Educational Video Game", at >the National Science Foundation, May 31st, 2006 >No Contact Info Available > >Accepted Talks: >"AudiOdyssey: An Accessible Game for Both >Sighted and Non-Sighted Gamers", at FuturePlay, >Nov 2007 >Contact: Dr. Bill Kapralos and Jim Parker, >Bill.Kapralos at uoit.ca and jparker at ucalgary.ca > >Recent CNN article on AudiOdyssey and GAMBIT: >http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/09/02/video.blind/ > > >At 06:01 PM 10/1/2007, Thomas Westin wrote: >>OK I've made some minor edits, most notably I changed, in the >>extended abstract, "discuss" to "show examples" since I think that is >>more what we are going to do, and running examples tend to attract >>developers more than just discussion >> >>apart from that I think the text answers to all of the questions asked. >> >>/Thomas >> >>1 okt 2007 kl. 23.46 skrev Thomas Westin: >> >>>Hi Michelle >>> >>>I'm not certain exactly what you refer to with flesh out, but I can >>>read through the Jedi thing once more and see if I can improve some >>>things. >>> >>>Kind regards >>>Thomas >>> >>>1 okt 2007 kl. 23.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: >>> >>>>So we have a lot left to tune up and flesh out before we can turn >>>>in most of the proposals. Is anyone out there able to help? I know >>>>Reid's on the case too. >>>> >>>>I've already been informed that the curriculum panel that already >>>>went into the system will be automatically rejected because the >>>>education people aren't associating at all with GDC...So we're >>>>already down one and we've got 9 more to push through in the hopes >>>>that we'll get some accepted so that we actually get those GDC >>>>pass thingees that let us in. Remember...an expo pass for a booth >>>>only lets us into the expo. And a lot of our institutions won't >>>>pay for us to go to GDC and not give a talk. So if your name is >>>>attached to any of the proposals help make sure it gets wrapped up >>>>or it won't make it in. The server is SLOW on top of it so it's >>>>taking me about 30 minutes to turn in each proposal... >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From gramenos at ics.forth.gr Tue Oct 2 05:22:06 2007 From: gramenos at ics.forth.gr (Dimitris Grammenos) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:22:06 +0300 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071002092411.39AF88E40FC@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> Hello Graham, Thanks for the promotion :-D You can find some more publications at: http://www.ics.forth.gr/hci/ua-games/publications.html And some games at: http://www.ics.forth.gr/hci/ua-games/games.html Cheers, Dimitris _____ From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Graham McAllister Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:52 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list Hi All, If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. Graham. Graham McAllister, Ph.D. University of Sussex Interact Lab +44 1273 877267 On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: Hi Barrie, That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad controller or a one button might help visualize the actual accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others have some good ideas? cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten Most up to date version here: http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to difficult 6.. make interface fonts scalable 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html - this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks Sweet ! Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get their asses at our talks? Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) What we need: - cool shirts So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. :D Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make lifesize cutouts of? Lol. - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): 1. Closed captions 2. Customizable controls 3. Slow 4. Assists 5. x 6. x 7. x 8. x 9.x 10. x Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the sig site. I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! Kick. Ass. :D Michelle _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Oct 2 12:42:23 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:42:23 -0400 Subject: [games_access] wiki project added. Top-secret In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyExyoA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyExyoA Message-ID: <009501c80513$353d33a0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> http://www.igda.org/wiki/GA_SIG_Secret Please take a look at the page I just added about project top-secret. If you have any questions or concerns please let me know so I can make it better. I'd like to dress it up with fonts and colors but I'm not sure how. I believe Michelle might. Robert www.RobertFlorio.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Tue Oct 2 13:06:45 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:06:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: So the proposals are in -- some in better shape than others. Some aren't posted on the wiki or updated on the wiki yet because I was using word since I was the only one editing. I'll do that when I'm not scrambling to prep my class. So I was awake for about 40 hours before the 11:59pm deadline trying to get things ready and submitted. I'm not super happy about that but every GDC comes with its lessons. I learned that when you work as hard as you can to be as open about the process and coach others as possible under extreme time constraints (oh and that life that I had to put on complete hold along with that kidney thing), it definitely takes up a lot more time than flying solo, which tightens the time constraints even more. But the good part is that it allowed others to help with the write ups and I'm glad for that. We're getting there. We are all learning. This is going to be a really rough year I fear but I think that given how many proposals are in on game accessibility they have to see that we really mean business and that worked for us last year. Of course there is the counter argument about putting in one versus many...but my gut (and rumors) told me that this year we'd better or we risk too much in the passes department because the odds are really bad this year for proposal acceptance. I already found out that the Curriculum panel was out before the next proposal went into the system. In the end it's a crap shoot. You just don't really know what the outcome will be. We have to be realistic with our expectations but we can hope good thoughts! Unfortunately I just learned this morning that the IGDA has been slashed the number of sessions they have been given by CMP so if we totally crap out with GDC Main then we might be able to get a single roundtable. The trouble is...roundtables come with very few (usually no more than 2 speaker's passes). So everyone think good and lucky thoughts. As for the rest of the proposals, we'll hear back in either November or December (they say different things on different pages and emails)...except if they do a quick rejection cycle and get rid of a lot before they start looking at them seriously. We'll also have some summit proposals in (Ben -- if you have read this far I'll email or call you in the next day or so) -- Serious Games and Independent Games. This is another avenue we'll take. Talks for those won't be the same because it will attract a more selective audience because it takes place before the main part of GDC (GDC Main) starts and the Expo starts. But I think we'll have a good audience for each of those because they are both really supportive of the SIG. And that will come with more speaker's passes if they accept us. The booth comes with some passes but they only allow admission to the Expo so you can't go to any of the talks, you can't even be on those floors of the building. And you don't get into a lot of the receptions, etc. I'm still finding out the details of that and will keep you up to date. So this is a "highs and lows" email and now the politics begin for me as I try to get as many of us to GDC as we can so that we CAN canvas the place with fliers, ask about accessibility in as many talks as possible, escort people to talks, the booth, etc. This is why both the talks and the networking are just as important -- they can't exist without the other. Well, they can...but we want more because we want accessible games so we need every avenue we can get! All are critical. I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those final hours before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and Eelke for their work on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks before. This year felt more like a team effort than ever before and I hope we can keep working on this, keep strengthening and growing the team! On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united states)! Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about two weeks? Busy...busy...busy... Michelle From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Oct 2 13:40:29 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:40:29 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEySoA References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com><183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com><9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com><6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEySoA Message-ID: <00ac01c8051b$5372afa0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> In a lot of the proposals were kind of empty what do they actually have to approve if they don't have anything solid that was written down I'm worrying? I'm not trying to sound selfish but I hope there's a chance I can get a pass I'd like to be there with my team and have a lot to offer with David Perry in this accessible top-secret game, but my only chance of getting their being with you guys is the pass. I wish I could have been part of some of the proposals hopefully next year I'll be able to help with some of those bigger things. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:07 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem So the proposals are in -- some in better shape than others. Some aren't posted on the wiki or updated on the wiki yet because I was using word since I was the only one editing. I'll do that when I'm not scrambling to prep my class. So I was awake for about 40 hours before the 11:59pm deadline trying to get things ready and submitted. I'm not super happy about that but every GDC comes with its lessons. I learned that when you work as hard as you can to be as open about the process and coach others as possible under extreme time constraints (oh and that life that I had to put on complete hold along with that kidney thing), it definitely takes up a lot more time than flying solo, which tightens the time constraints even more. But the good part is that it allowed others to help with the write ups and I'm glad for that. We're getting there. We are all learning. This is going to be a really rough year I fear but I think that given how many proposals are in on game accessibility they have to see that we really mean business and that worked for us last year. Of course there is the counter argument about putting in one versus many...but my gut (and rumors) told me that this year we'd better or we risk too much in the passes department because the odds are really bad this year for proposal acceptance. I already found out that the Curriculum panel was out before the next proposal went into the system. In the end it's a crap shoot. You just don't really know what the outcome will be. We have to be realistic with our expectations but we can hope good thoughts! Unfortunately I just learned this morning that the IGDA has been slashed the number of sessions they have been given by CMP so if we totally crap out with GDC Main then we might be able to get a single roundtable. The trouble is...roundtables come with very few (usually no more than 2 speaker's passes). So everyone think good and lucky thoughts. As for the rest of the proposals, we'll hear back in either November or December (they say different things on different pages and emails)...except if they do a quick rejection cycle and get rid of a lot before they start looking at them seriously. We'll also have some summit proposals in (Ben -- if you have read this far I'll email or call you in the next day or so) -- Serious Games and Independent Games. This is another avenue we'll take. Talks for those won't be the same because it will attract a more selective audience because it takes place before the main part of GDC (GDC Main) starts and the Expo starts. But I think we'll have a good audience for each of those because they are both really supportive of the SIG. And that will come with more speaker's passes if they accept us. The booth comes with some passes but they only allow admission to the Expo so you can't go to any of the talks, you can't even be on those floors of the building. And you don't get into a lot of the receptions, etc. I'm still finding out the details of that and will keep you up to date. So this is a "highs and lows" email and now the politics begin for me as I try to get as many of us to GDC as we can so that we CAN canvas the place with fliers, ask about accessibility in as many talks as possible, escort people to talks, the booth, etc. This is why both the talks and the networking are just as important -- they can't exist without the other. Well, they can...but we want more because we want accessible games so we need every avenue we can get! All are critical. I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those final hours before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and Eelke for their work on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks before. This year felt more like a team effort than ever before and I hope we can keep working on this, keep strengthening and growing the team! On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united states)! Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about two weeks? Busy...busy...busy... Michelle _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Tue Oct 2 14:11:30 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:11:30 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: <00ac01c8051b$5372afa0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@ Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8 o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com>

<183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F @pininteractive.com><9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.c om><6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIzEySoA <00ac01c8051b$5372afa0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: Those are the ones I mentioned were not on the wiki yet because I was working solo in Word. They are now finished proposals. I'll put their info up soon. Two proposals we had planned for didn't get in because we hit the deadline and the proposals were not done. Those have been moved to another part of the page. One was an additional Audio talk I pulled myself because I couldn't write it in time and one was slated for the Business Track but didn't conform to the GDC guidelines, would have been a hugely tough sale, and Reid asked me to pull it. As for the pass, we'll need to wait and see at this point. I can't guarantee a pass for even myself. I am going to try like hell to get as many of us there as possible -- as I said, now I enter the lobbying phase where these things get sorted out. The first passes will go to the proposal writers and after that it will be as many people as we can get into an accepted talk. As I said...this may prove to be our toughest year yet and there are no guarantees for anything. Things are no longer how they used to be...but I guess that's the general truth for everything in the universe. So we adapt and keep moving forward as we keep trying to illicit change in this "kill or be killed" industry. I wish that we could count on the same consideration as we've had in the past but we can't. This is where the tough part of the fight comes in...the rest of the days of the year when we lobby, when we write, when we toil away not really knowing if there's a payoff in the end or if the work itself is the payoff. Ok...wow. I think I swallowed a philosopher or something because these emails are getting dramatic. :D Michelle >In a lot of the proposals were kind of empty what do they actually have to >approve if they don't have anything solid that was written down I'm >worrying? > >I'm not trying to sound selfish but I hope there's a chance I can get a pass >I'd like to be there with my team and have a lot to offer with David Perry >in this accessible top-secret game, but my only chance of getting their >being with you guys is the pass. > >I wish I could have been part of some of the proposals hopefully next year >I'll be able to help with some of those bigger things. >Robert > >-----Original Message----- >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >On Behalf Of d. michelle hinn >Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:07 PM >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem > >So the proposals are in -- some in better shape than others. Some >aren't posted on the wiki or updated on the wiki yet because I was >using word since I was the only one editing. I'll do that when I'm >not scrambling to prep my class. > >So I was awake for about 40 hours before the 11:59pm deadline trying >to get things ready and submitted. I'm not super happy about that >but every GDC comes with its lessons. I learned that when you work as >hard as you can to be as open about the process and coach others as >possible under extreme time constraints (oh and that life that I had >to put on complete hold along with that kidney thing), it definitely >takes up a lot more time than flying solo, which tightens the time >constraints even more. But the good part is that it allowed others to >help with the write ups and I'm glad for that. We're getting there. >We are all learning. > >This is going to be a really rough year I fear but I think that given >how many proposals are in on game accessibility they have to see that >we really mean business and that worked for us last year. Of course >there is the counter argument about putting in one versus many...but >my gut (and rumors) told me that this year we'd better or we risk too >much in the passes department because the odds are really bad this >year for proposal acceptance. I already found out that the Curriculum >panel was out before the next proposal went into the system. In the >end it's a crap shoot. You just don't really know what the outcome >will be. We have to be realistic with our expectations but we can >hope good thoughts! > >Unfortunately I just learned this morning that the IGDA has been >slashed the number of sessions they have been given by CMP so if we >totally crap out with GDC Main then we might be able to get a single >roundtable. The trouble is...roundtables come with very few (usually >no more than 2 speaker's passes). So everyone think good and lucky >thoughts. As for the rest of the proposals, we'll hear back in either >November or December (they say different things on different pages >and emails)...except if they do a quick rejection cycle and get rid >of a lot before they start looking at them seriously. > >We'll also have some summit proposals in (Ben -- if you have read >this far I'll email or call you in the next day or so) -- Serious >Games and Independent Games. This is another avenue we'll take. Talks >for those won't be the same because it will attract a more selective >audience because it takes place before the main part of GDC (GDC >Main) starts and the Expo starts. But I think we'll have a good >audience for each of those because they are both really supportive of >the SIG. And that will come with more speaker's passes if they accept >us. > >The booth comes with some passes but they only allow admission to the >Expo so you can't go to any of the talks, you can't even be on those >floors of the building. And you don't get into a lot of the >receptions, etc. I'm still finding out the details of that and will >keep you up to date. > >So this is a "highs and lows" email and now the politics begin for me >as I try to get as many of us to GDC as we can so that we CAN canvas >the place with fliers, ask about accessibility in as many talks as >possible, escort people to talks, the booth, etc. This is why both >the talks and the networking are just as important -- they can't >exist without the other. Well, they can...but we want more because we >want accessible games so we need every avenue we can get! All are >critical. > >I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those final >hours before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and Eelke >for their work on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks before. This >year felt more like a team effort than ever before and I hope we can >keep working on this, keep strengthening and growing the team! > >On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united >states)! Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about >two weeks? Busy...busy...busy... > >Michelle >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Oct 2 15:27:04 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 21:27:04 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch><004501c80099$10122500$6501a8c0@Inspiron><836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com><183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com><9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com><6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: and a big THANK YOU to you Michelle for all the hard work you put into this, I'm amazed by your energy, just remember to take care and relax now and yes, I haven't forgot about the CD upload, will take care of that tomorrow when I'm at the university. By the way, the files on the CD; perhaps some of them need to be updated, many are 2 years old soon /Thomas 2 okt 2007 kl. 19.06 skrev d. michelle hinn: > I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those > final hours before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and > Eelke for their work on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks > before. This year felt more like a team effort than ever before and > I hope we can keep working on this, keep strengthening and growing > the team! > > On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united > states)! Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about > two weeks? Busy...busy...busy... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:05:59 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:05:59 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> <105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje> <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <836db6300710021305v72e0b525qe0077e5b94c6069d@mail.gmail.com> Hey Richard, Cool I'll check it out. For our flyer we might actually organize them around the four disability categories. Talking about that, I kind of feel cognitive disabilities are a little bit of an underrepresented category in our work its something we should brainstorm over at some time. cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, AudioGames.net wrote: > > > got an old version here: > > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/gatheory/gatheoryshort012_2OLD.zip > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AudioGames.net > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > > > Hi again, > > Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of Eelke, > the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, > I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, each > one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and > recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the > latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it is > still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. > > Greets, > > Richard > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Graham McAllister > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > > > Hi All, > > > If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris > Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games > which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so > please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. > > > Graham. > > > > Graham McAllister, Ph.D. > University of Sussex > Interact Lab > +44 1273 877267 > > > > > On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: > > > Hi Barrie, > > > That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something > of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much > easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial > agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to > relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why > is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad > controller or a one button might help visualize the actual > accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about > why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for > 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual > problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others > have some good ideas? > > > cheers Eelke > > > > > On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: > > Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten > > > Most up to date version here: > http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf > 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped > 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects > 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) > 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) > 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to > difficult > 6.. make interface fonts scalable > 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes > 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, > resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D > 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed > 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging > Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, > 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced > controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html > - > this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. > > > Barrie > www.OneSwitch.org.uk > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d. michelle hinn" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > > > > > > > Sweet ! > > > Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force > and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get > their asses at our talks? > > > Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is > first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed > me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! > Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed > at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) > > > > What we need: > - cool shirts > > > So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop > around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and > where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever > there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices > for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. > :D > > > Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It > might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on > black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We > definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know > where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. > > > > - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. > > > hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we > can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the > booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as > baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered > that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe > the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make > lifesize cutouts of? Lol. > > > > - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be > pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration > on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on > what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I > suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to > the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): > 1. Closed captions > 2. Customizable controls > 3. Slow > 4. Assists > 5. x > 6. x > 7. x > 8. x > 9.x > 10. x > > > Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but > I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it > though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe > take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can > be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can > start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote > on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the > sig site. > > > I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that > we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of > attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. > > > So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in > place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop > proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but > networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people > into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that > happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap > cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong > marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! > > > Kick. Ass. :D > > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:10:35 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:10:35 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: <836db6300710021310q48af2e41xd383973331a2792f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michelle! Great job!!! Cheers Eelke On 10/2/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > and a big THANK YOU to you Michelle for all the hard work you put into this, > I'm amazed by your energy, just remember to take care and relax now > > and yes, I haven't forgot about the CD upload, will take care of that > tomorrow when I'm at the university. By the way, the files on the CD; > perhaps some of them need to be updated, many are 2 years old soon > > /Thomas > > > > 2 okt 2007 kl. 19.06 skrev d. michelle hinn: > > > I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those final hours > before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and Eelke for their work > on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks before. This year felt more like a > team effort than ever before and I hope we can keep working on this, keep > strengthening and growing the team! > > > > > On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united states)! > Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about two weeks? > Busy...busy...busy... > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:10:35 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:10:35 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC...The Proposal Post Mortem In-Reply-To: References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: <836db6300710021310q48af2e41xd383973331a2792f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michelle! Great job!!! Cheers Eelke On 10/2/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > and a big THANK YOU to you Michelle for all the hard work you put into this, > I'm amazed by your energy, just remember to take care and relax now > > and yes, I haven't forgot about the CD upload, will take care of that > tomorrow when I'm at the university. By the way, the files on the CD; > perhaps some of them need to be updated, many are 2 years old soon > > /Thomas > > > > 2 okt 2007 kl. 19.06 skrev d. michelle hinn: > > > I really want to thank Reid and Richard for their help in those final hours > before the deadline. And thanks to Barrie, Thomas, and Eelke for their work > on SIG proposals, publicity in the weeks before. This year felt more like a > team effort than ever before and I hope we can keep working on this, keep > strengthening and growing the team! > > > > > On that note...best of luck to US (all of us...not just the united states)! > Now...onto E for All! Oh what's that? It happens in about two weeks? > Busy...busy...busy... > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 2 17:58:01 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:58:01 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com><105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje><108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <836db6300710021305v72e0b525qe0077e5b94c6069d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001601c8053f$4d5a4820$6402a8c0@Delletje> I've deleted the old one again for now... will upload new one tomorrow I hope. Furthermore, if you are thinking about using the 4 categories, why not use the old Poster as a design for the flyer? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > Hey Richard, > > Cool I'll check it out. For our flyer we might actually organize them > around the four disability categories. Talking about that, I kind of > feel cognitive disabilities are a little bit of an underrepresented > category in our work its something we should brainstorm over at some > time. > > cheers Eelke > > > On 10/1/07, AudioGames.net wrote: >> >> >> got an old version here: >> >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/gatheory/gatheoryshort012_2OLD.zip >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: AudioGames.net >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of >> Eelke, >> the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, >> I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, >> each >> one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and >> recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the >> latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it >> is >> still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. >> >> Greets, >> >> Richard >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Graham McAllister >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris >> Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games >> which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so >> please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. >> >> >> Graham. >> >> >> >> Graham McAllister, Ph.D. >> University of Sussex >> Interact Lab >> +44 1273 877267 >> >> >> >> >> On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: >> >> >> Hi Barrie, >> >> >> That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something >> of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much >> easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial >> agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to >> relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why >> is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad >> controller or a one button might help visualize the actual >> accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about >> why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for >> 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual >> problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others >> have some good ideas? >> >> >> cheers Eelke >> >> >> >> >> On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >> >> Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten >> >> >> Most up to date version here: >> http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf >> 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped >> 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects >> 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) >> 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) >> 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple >> to >> difficult >> 6.. make interface fonts scalable >> 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes >> 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, >> resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D >> 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed >> 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging >> Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, >> 5, >> 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced >> controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html >> - >> this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this >> need. >> >> >> Barrie >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sweet ! >> >> >> Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >> and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >> their asses at our talks? >> >> >> Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is >> first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed >> me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! >> Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and >> pointed >> at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >> >> >> >> What we need: >> - cool shirts >> >> >> So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop >> around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and >> where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? >> Wherever >> there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices >> for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. >> :D >> >> >> Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It >> might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on >> black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us >> tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? >> We >> definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know >> where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >> >> >> >> - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >> >> >> hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we >> can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the >> booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as >> baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered >> that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well >> maybe >> the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make >> lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >> >> >> >> - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >> pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >> on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >> what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >> suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >> the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >> 1. Closed captions >> 2. Customizable controls >> 3. Slow >> 4. Assists >> 5. x >> 6. x >> 7. x >> 8. x >> 9.x >> 10. x >> >> >> Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but >> I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it >> though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe >> take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what >> can >> be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can >> start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote >> on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the >> sig site. >> >> >> I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now >> that >> we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of >> attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. >> >> >> So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in >> place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop >> proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but >> networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people >> into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that >> happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap >> cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong >> marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! >> >> >> Kick. Ass. :D >> >> >> Michelle >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> Department of CS&E/171 >> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 19:08:25 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:08:25 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> <105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje> <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <836db6300710021608y52252ef9ke2ee03924297c97b@mail.gmail.com> Hey Richard, Cool I'll check it out. For our flyer we might actually organize them around the four disability categories. Talking about that, I kind of feel cognitive disabilities are a little bit of an underrepresented category in our work its something we should brainstorm over at some time. cheers Eelke On 10/1/07, AudioGames.net wrote: > > > got an old version here: > > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/gatheory/gatheoryshort012_2OLD.zip > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AudioGames.net > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > > > Hi again, > > Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of Eelke, > the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, > I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, each > one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and > recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the > latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it is > still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. > > Greets, > > Richard > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Graham McAllister > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list > > > Hi All, > > > If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris > Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games > which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so > please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. > > > Graham. > > > > Graham McAllister, Ph.D. > University of Sussex > Interact Lab > +44 1273 877267 > > > > > On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: > > > Hi Barrie, > > > That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something > of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much > easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial > agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to > relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why > is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad > controller or a one button might help visualize the actual > accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about > why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for > 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual > problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others > have some good ideas? > > > cheers Eelke > > > > > On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: > > Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten > > > Most up to date version here: > http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf > 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped > 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects > 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) > 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) > 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to > difficult > 6.. make interface fonts scalable > 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes > 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, > resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D > 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed > 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging > Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, > 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced > controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html > - > this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. > > > Barrie > www.OneSwitch.org.uk > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d. michelle hinn" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks > > > > > > > Sweet ! > > > Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force > and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get > their asses at our talks? > > > Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is > first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed > me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! > Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed > at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) > > > > What we need: > - cool shirts > > > So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop > around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and > where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever > there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices > for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. > :D > > > Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It > might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on > black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We > definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know > where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. > > > > - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. > > > hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we > can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the > booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as > baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered > that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe > the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make > lifesize cutouts of? Lol. > > > > - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be > pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration > on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on > what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I > suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to > the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): > 1. Closed captions > 2. Customizable controls > 3. Slow > 4. Assists > 5. x > 6. x > 7. x > 8. x > 9.x > 10. x > > > Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but > I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it > though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe > take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can > be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can > start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote > on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the > sig site. > > > I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that > we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of > attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. > > > So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in > place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop > proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but > networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people > into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that > happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap > cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong > marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! > > > Kick. Ass. :D > > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 3 13:47:11 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:47:11 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: <836db6300710021608y52252ef9ke2ee03924297c97b@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com> <01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com> <105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje> <108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <836db6300710021608y52252ef9ke2ee03924297c97b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, cognitive disabilities have not gotten a lot of attention so far. I think it's because it often crosses over into the ed psych/teaching domain. And things get REALLY tricky there. I'm not saying we shouldn't brainstorm this and think more deeply about what the range of issues are -- we just have a steep learning curve ahead. For example, here's my story: I was diagnosed with dyslexia really late. I mean during my last semester in college (age 21). There was signs that we missed early -- like I kept scoring low on certain standardized tests that temporarily put me into the (I'm not kidding) "brown" reading group (wow...what kind of freudian weirdness was going on when they pick that color to represent "low score"). The thing is -- and a lot of things have changed with the education system in the US (I can't speak to the changes in other countries but I just don't know the history) and so there are individualized solutions (although there are still problems) -- when I was in those early school years, you would get shifted to the "brown" group and then you were immediately sent to a "learning disabilities classroom" where the range in there could have been anywhere from low IQ/mental retardation to (yes) behavioral disorders. And this is where ALL classes were taught even if you didn't have a problem in any area but reading (so I would have been fated to "remedial" (I always hated that word) math even though my scores in that area were really high. So...my parents yelled and screamed, took me to a testing center and, whoa, I have a high IQ. So the school apologized because obviously I wasn't "challenged" by the tests so I was bored and that's why I scored low. Next thing you know? I'm in the "gifted" (another loaded word) classes all across the board. Meanwhile...I still had dyslexia and reading problems but it was treated as "laziness" and "air-headed" (I keep putting certain terms in quotes you my have noticed) and, well, I'll just say that it's not a lot of fun to be told that constantly. So I worked my butt off to avoid constantly being embarrassed and somehow worked at things enough that I figured out alternative ways of going about things (not "cheats" but definitely not doing things the "right" way). Basically it was like a big game -- how can I blend into "normal" even though I didn't know why something was out of whack. So when my cognitive psych teacher in undergrad got suspicious about why I could talk about the material in class (and argue about it), why was I failing her multiple choice tests. Long story short, she asked me to talk about some of the test material with her (without the whole multiple choice thing) when I went to her office, I answered them correctly and she sent me to her colleague's office to take a reading test. I scored two standard deviations below where my reading scores should have been compared to the language (reading, comprehension, etc) subsets of two different IQ tests...bingo. Dyslexia. So now I had a reason for all that struggle and mislabelling but...I made it all the way through the school system without instruction on how to make things make more sense without hitting my head against the wall every day (not a recommended solution). So by then it was a big "oh...whoops. I guess it wasn't laziness...sorry about that" but that was that. I'd retrained my brain (Nintendo Brain Age might have been cool to have back then) and had gone on with things. That's not to say that knowing that solved everything -- I STILL work my butt off and that's the way it is. I've done a lot of reading about dyslexia and theories on how deficits in dealing with written language are counterbalanced by "gifts" in visual and creative reasoning. My guess is that if that's true that it was that that helped me figure things out in another way than how I was "supposed" to be reading things. Ok, I'll stop now before this becomes a complete autobiography. Anyway, just taking dyslexia as an example...the whole falling 2 standard deviations below comparative IQ test things can mean that a person with dyslexia might fall in the "average reader" category or "below average" depending on the IQ differences. So that means different things in how we deal with the reading issue. I fell into the "average/normal" reading zone but I was frustrated because it was so far off where my brain thought I should be. For others thing might mean that they have a VERY VERY hard time even learning to read AT ALL. And even with all the theories on "well maybe we need a language of pictures versus words," there still hasn't been any big movements to discourage reading...that being said, there are an awful lot of people who get treated as "ok, dyslexia...so you aren't going to be able to read very well so here are your limited vocational options..." rrrrrrr... So in games, I have a lot of trouble in MMOs because even though we are now way beyond the old text-only MUDs, etc. there's still a lot of text flying around in a million different windows/boxes/threads on screen with constant interruptions to throw me off even more. Yeah, when it comes to something work related, I multitask and deal with this but it's really tiring sometimes. So I shut off messenger, my email, etc when I need to get down to concentrating on decoding the task at hand. So why would I even want to deal with that FOR FUN? Truth is...I don't! Is there a solution for this for game design? Sure, there are things to make things better. But here's the catch 22 (and this applies for so many people with all kinds of disabilities) -- I'm gonna need convincing that it's worth my time because there are a lot of other kinds of games that aren't like this. Ah...so I just said it -- we need to not only convince the industry that games are important and that they need to be accessible because we know that it's an important leisure outlet...but we also need to win over (or win back) potential gamers with disabilities who have just said "screw it" because they've had a lot of frustrating experiences. For me, for my case? I've got a lot of games that I play that I like and don't annoy me and feel like a second (5th?) job. Other disability types? Options get really, really limited and the situation is can put in solutions that help a person play any ONE game...just one game, any game...because they cannot access games period. Would I, personally, like to play (and enjoy) MMOs style games? Sure! Because I like the idea of them. But it's gonna take some selling back to me to be ok with paying the monthly fees, purchasing the game, etc because I have already spent a fair chunk of change trying them out because friends are on them only to end up uninstalling them and cancelling the subscriptions pretty quickly because I'd rather play Halo3 or SingStar (yes...text, text, text...but it's just one stream versus multidirectional simultaneously). But, secretly, I would like to get together with my friends online and go on whatever goofy, fun online treks that they are going on. Wow...I said I was going to stop then wrote 3 long paragraphs more. It's ok...you can laugh if you have read this far. :D I was going to say "just my 2 cents..." but I think that was more like "just my $29.99" :) The summary point being...yes, we need to think about this more AND understand the complexity and uniqueness of these types of disabilities just as we struggle to do so for every disability type. For someone who has a weird relationship with written text, I do type an awful LOT of really long messages. Ironic, huh? And complicated. ;) Michelle >Hey Richard, > >Cool I'll check it out. For our flyer we might actually organize them >around the four disability categories. Talking about that, I kind of >feel cognitive disabilities are a little bit of an underrepresented >category in our work its something we should brainstorm over at some >time. > >cheers Eelke > > >On 10/1/07, AudioGames.net wrote: >> >> >> got an old version here: >> >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/gatheory/gatheoryshort012_2OLD.zip >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: AudioGames.net >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> Based on much of Dimitris' theory/practice, as well as the works of Eelke, >> the current top 10 list and the other guidelines of other GA initiatives, >> I've been able to devise 10 key points for developing accessible games, each >> one including (and bringing order to) the guidelines, design patterns and >> recommendations that are floating around in this field. I don't have the >> latest version with me now on this computer, but I'll upload it (mind it is >> still a bit of a work in progress) tomorrow. >> >> Greets, >> >> Richard >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Graham McAllister >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Top 10 list >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> If you haven't already read it, it might be worth reading Dimitris >> Grammenos's paper entitled Unified Design of Universally Accessible Games >> which was published at HCII 2007. I've only joined the GASIG today, so >> please don't shoot me down if you've looked at this already. >> >> >> Graham. >> >> >> >> Graham McAllister, Ph.D. >> University of Sussex >> Interact Lab >> +44 1273 877267 >> >> >> >> >> On 1 Oct 2007, at 23:38, Eelke Folmer wrote: >> >> >> Hi Barrie, >> >> >> That list looks pretty good to me. Only bullet 3 is kind of something >> of the past. I see more and more manuel less games since its much >> easier and accessible to provide in- game feedback e.g a tutorial >> agent etc. I'm not against this format but would it be an idea to >> relate these requirements to actual accessibility problems? E.g. why >> is it important to have re-mappable controls? a picture of a quad >> controller or a one button might help visualize the actual >> accessibility problem rather than have a game designer wonder about >> why that requirement needs to be implemented. We could actually go for >> 2 lists of 5 with a little bit more elaboration on the actual >> problems. We could center it around our ghosts but maybe some others >> have some good ideas? >> >> >> cheers Eelke >> >> >> >> >> On 10/1/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >> >> Top 10 list on the GASIG wiki is here: >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Top_Ten >> >> >> Most up to date version here: >> http://tim.thechases.com/top10_2.pdf >> 1.. allow all controls (mouse, keyboard, gamepad) to be remapped >> 2.. add closed-captioning for all dialog and important sound-effects >> 3.. provide documentation in an accessible format (HTML or plain-text) >> 4.. provide assist modes (auto-targeting, training options, etc) >> 5.. provide a broad range of difficulty levels from incredibly simple to >> difficult >> 6.. make interface fonts scalable >> 7.. allow for high-contrast color schemes >> 8.. add audio tags to all significant elements (actors, doors, items, >> resulting actions, etc) in true spatial 3D >> 9.. allow for a varied range of control over play-speed >> 10.. announce accessibility features on packaging >> Still looks good to me - with personal one-switch wish lists being 1, 4, 5, >> 9 and 10. I think there should be inclusion of an alternative reduced >> controls option, such as with Electronic Arts Wii Madden game: >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-done-electronic-arts.html >> - >> this does tie up with section 4, but I think we need to highlight this need. >> >> >> Barrie >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "d. michelle hinn" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] same proposal in multiple tracks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sweet ! >> >> >> Cool so can I help organize /coordinate the accessibility task force >> and use my physical appearance to intimidate game developers and get >> their asses at our talks? >> >> >> Hehe. Ok, but you have to tell me what an accessibility task force is >> first! And remember I'm the "accessibility evangelist" (as Richard dubbed >> me) so I'm always for multiple approaches because it spreads the word! >> Yes, I think if you stood in front of the doors to other talks and pointed >> at our room, looking super fierce that would help. ;) >> >> >> >> What we need: >> - cool shirts >> >> >> So as Barrie found out...Cafe Press yanked our design. I'm going to shop >> around town here at some t-shirt shops to find out cost per shirt and >> where the quantity price breaks are. Can you do the same in Reno? Wherever >> there's a university, there's t-shirt shops. Then we can compare prices >> for bulk shirt orders. And we need some place who will print the ghosts. >> :D >> >> >> Should we go with the file Barrie sent? That would make sense to me. It >> might need to be tweaked in photoshop if we are going to print it on >> black, which always adds a little extra work. Richard, can you help us > > tweak Barrie's file so that it can be printed (and look good) on black? We >> definitely needs some shirts of some sort for E for All but I don't know >> where we can get them quickly enough if Vista Print can't do it. >> >> >> >> - if only we had booth babes/hunks to help us. >> >> >> hmmmmm....this probably isn't gonna happen unless we figure out where we >> can find a set of really good looking people who all want to stand at the >> booth for free. :D So I guess we'll all just have to do our best to be as >> baby (babish? babelike?) and as hunky as we can. Hmm...I just remembered >> that my class is making an accessible game with sexual themes...well maybe >> the graphics guys in the class can make us some avatars we can make >> lifesize cutouts of? Lol. >> >> >> >> - brief concise flyers with 10 little nuggets of knowledge that can be >> pinned to a game developers cubicle and provide immediate inspiration >> on how to improve his or her game. Draft topics list (lets vote on >> what should be on here & this is in no way a promotion of my work I >> suggest we keep the number of "adds' to a minimum maybe just a link to >> the igda / accessibility sig so they can find the rest from there): >> 1. Closed captions >> 2. Customizable controls >> 3. Slow >> 4. Assists >> 5. x >> 6. x >> 7. x >> 8. x >> 9.x >> 10. x >> >> >> Well we have our current top ten list (it's somewhere on the wiki too but >> I'm still madly typing) -- that has a lot on it. We can update it >> though -- so far I think the ones you suggest are on the list. So maybe >> take a look at the list we've used for the past two years and see what can >> be consolidated, added, subtracted, better explained. And then we can >> start there with the addition of other ideas and then we can discuss/vote >> on what makes the cut for the flier. As you said, the rest can be on the >> sig site. >> >> >> I think we're getting there for GDC -- I'm already feeling pumped now that >> we have you looking at the "what to do when you aren't speaking" plan of >> attack and I'll keep charge of the proposals and CMP stuff. >> >> >> So we do both and hopefully reap the benefits of having a real plan in >> place for negotiating the talks AND the expo. There's no reason to drop >> proposals when so many get axed anyway and they are important too -- but >> networking is just as important and it will no doubt help get more people >> into our talks and visiting our booth. And it's also something that >> happens after a talk, during Q&A and when people come up to you to swap >> cards with you. So with strong proposals like we have and a strong >> marketing plan, it can only serve to help us! >> >> >> Kick. Ass. :D >> >> >> Michelle >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> Department of CS&E/171 >> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 3 14:02:16 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:02:16 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All fliers In-Reply-To: <836db6300710021310q48af2e41xd383973331a2792f@mail.gmail.com> References: <168101c7f7e4$5cbddf60$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300709262342r1468d3e8o75c7a59acc24de7c@mail.gmail.com> <183CAD02-BBE1-41A0-B76F-C965DB47872F@pininteractive.com> <9E3583A7-5B02-40A1-92AB-05627D9F34C4@pininteractive.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071001185926.037d24e0@po12.mit.edu> <836db6300710021310q48af2e41xd383973331a2792f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok...E for All! Before we get too far in planning out the flier for GDC in February...we have E for All in two weeks. And I need to make THOUSANDS of copies, I've been advised. So it's gotta be something that's, say, no bigger than half the size of an 8.5 x 11 inch piece of copy paper (So we can get two fliers out of every copy). What should we have on this, remembering that this show is aimed at CONSUMERS -- the gamers we need to join with us to show the developers that we are strong in numbers and if they make games more accessible then here are the gamers that they could be selling a lot of copies to and more as those gamers spread the word because they can now play them. Brainstorming welcome! We have a wiki page for that that Reid set up where you can also contribute your ideas to at: http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 But of course if you have trouble getting logged in to edit it, you should feel free to send your ideas to the list or to me directly (hinn at uiuc.edu) and I can put it on the wiki. Thanks!! Michelle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reid at rbkdesign.com Wed Oct 3 14:56:50 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:56:50 -0700 Subject: [games_access] cool tech Message-ID: Game helps people recover from strokes. http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2007/10/therapy_tiles "The next natural step," Lund said, "is to use artificial neural networks to do classification of the patient's behavior and adapt the game (in real time)." From glinert at MIT.EDU Wed Oct 3 20:35:04 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:35:04 -0400 Subject: [games_access] cool tech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071003203305.02d12720@po12.mit.edu> If you like that, check out some of the similar work they've been doing at the University of Haifa in Israel. They first publicshed in 2004 - http://www.jneuroengrehab.com/content/1/1/12. I think Skip Rizzo was involved somehow as well. Eitan At 02:56 PM 10/3/2007, Reid Kimball wrote: >Game helps people recover from strokes. > >http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2007/10/therapy_tiles > >"The next natural step," Lund said, "is to use artificial neural >networks to do classification of the patient's behavior and adapt the >game (in real time)." >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From ladysekhmet.dj at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 05:13:57 2007 From: ladysekhmet.dj at gmail.com (DJ Bono) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 05:13:57 -0400 Subject: [games_access] CC in Games, and Reid's proposal Message-ID: <21e80ec20710040213o2644e8ccgb3f5dda97be30c91@mail.gmail.com> Read the proposal, I agree with those of you who felt the wordings were weak. Reid - You do need to describe the difference between subtitling and close captioning because *I* think the hearing people (meaning peeps who can hear. LOL), don't realize that subtitling and CC is two totally different things. It looks great though! You know what's really weird...If I could, I could go after the industry and slam the book on ADA law in front of them because I cannot enjoy their game without closed captioning and sue their a$$. Of course, no one have the ability to go after these companies. Yes I think it will be the greatest thing to have CC in games and the ability to show it on the BOX..just like on DVDs. More often, on DVDs that are NOT CC'd, it's subtitled...and yes, there's some stuff that gets lost, like ("Music in background", "beep booop beep") I think the hardest sounds to record is any electronic sounds, like beeping. "Beeeeep" is very different than "Beep". :-) Another thing that I hate is even when it's subtitled, sometimes I have a hard time telling WHO is saying what. Example - Grand Theft Auto: SA. Subtitles are great (but not so good when I'm free roaming hitting on girls or other people), however when there's a dialog, I occasionally have difficult time distinguishing who is talking. They need to add...CJ: Rock on Dude, Smoke: Yeah brother! Something like that. 4 games ever in history??? Yeah, what are they? :-) I think I mentioned this a long time ago, but check out www.deafgamers.com. It's a great site to get an insight through deaf people's eyes on why the game failed and why the game succeeded when it comes to deaf gamers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reid at rbkdesign.com Thu Oct 4 10:38:40 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:38:40 -0700 Subject: [games_access] CC in Games, and Reid's proposal In-Reply-To: <21e80ec20710040213o2644e8ccgb3f5dda97be30c91@mail.gmail.com> References: <21e80ec20710040213o2644e8ccgb3f5dda97be30c91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I remember editing the proposals to add in the distinction between subtitles and captioning. I hope I did that because I meant to after the feedback. True, there are so many ways to improve CC for most media, (live theater, music, TV, movies, games). The four games are Zork: Grand Inquisitor Half-Life 2 Half-Life 2: Episode 1 Sin Episodes: Episode 1 Pretty soon will be Half-Life 2: Episode 2 (October 10th) Notice I'm not counting my Doom3[CC] mod. I'm only mentioning commercially available games. What's interesting is that Valve Software's Source engine provides captioning for 80% of the games that are captioned (counting HL2: Episode 2 to be released soon). Deafgamers is great, I visit there often. On 10/4/07, DJ Bono wrote: > Read the proposal, I agree with those of you who felt the wordings were > weak. Reid - You do need to describe the difference between subtitling and > close captioning because *I* think the hearing people (meaning peeps who can > hear. LOL), don't realize that subtitling and CC is two totally different > things. It looks great though! > > You know what's really weird...If I could, I could go after the industry and > slam the book on ADA law in front of them because I cannot enjoy their game > without closed captioning and sue their a$$. Of course, no one have the > ability to go after these companies. Yes I think it will be the greatest > thing to have CC in games and the ability to show it on the BOX..just like > on DVDs. > More often, on DVDs that are NOT CC'd, it's subtitled...and yes, there's > some stuff that gets lost, like ("Music in background", "beep booop beep") > I think the hardest sounds to record is any electronic sounds, like > beeping. "Beeeeep" is very different than "Beep". :-) Another thing that I > hate is even when it's subtitled, sometimes I have a hard time telling WHO > is saying what. Example - Grand Theft Auto: SA. Subtitles are great (but not > so good when I'm free roaming hitting on girls or other people), however > when there's a dialog, I occasionally have difficult time distinguishing who > is talking. They need to add...CJ: Rock on Dude, Smoke: Yeah brother! > Something like that. > > > 4 games ever in history??? Yeah, what are they? :-) > > I think I mentioned this a long time ago, but check out www.deafgamers.com. > It's a great site to get an insight through deaf people's eyes on why the > game failed and why the game succeeded when it comes to deaf gamers. > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Oct 4 14:47:09 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:47:09 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Top 10 list In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300709302006r68350b4bh1de76ce112e53ac9@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302229l3dd5fd17sf1cee85f7789aea@mail.gmail.com><836db6300709302353i2fbafa12h54c0571cc1109c71@mail.gmail.com><01b301c8044b$f8747860$0202a8c0@oneswitch><836db6300710011538x3b463f9q21cb6b07dec01077@mail.gmail.com><105201c8047f$9059a190$6402a8c0@Delletje><108a01c80483$7c7701a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><836db6300710021608y52252ef9ke2ee03924297c97b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6B268476-8DE1-4F77-89DE-FC35F5E1E156@pininteractive.com> yes; cognitive disabilities is something we need to look into more and another thing: social disabilities. I recently read about a report about depression being perhaps the most disabling of all /Thomas 3 okt 2007 kl. 19.47 skrev d. michelle hinn: > I was going to say "just my 2 cents..." but I think that was more > like "just my $29.99" :) The summary point being...yes, we need to > think about this more AND understand the complexity and uniqueness > of these types of disabilities just as we struggle to do so for > every disability type. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reid at rbkdesign.com Mon Oct 8 12:16:47 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:16:47 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning Message-ID: Hi everyone, What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. -Reid From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 8 14:36:10 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:36:10 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was just about to send an email about that -- We actually only have a little more than a week. I'm filling out a bunch of forms and getting everyone registered at this very moment, as that deadline is tomorrow. Eelke -- could you put up a list of what accessibility equipment you are able to bring? I'll then look it over so that I can try and figure out what I have that you don't and then we can talk about what we will actually bring (we probably want to have enough with us to mix things up so that there's something new a couple times a day). I know Eitan is having a tough time posting to the wiki -- Eitan -- just email me with info you want to add. So one quick thing via email -- Can ANYONE quickly design a flier with the SIG info and such or even just get it started with a nice looking template? If I don't hear from anyone about this by Wednesday, I'll need to do it myself (ie, it won't be great but it will have to do) and get it to the printer ASAP. In the meantime I'm doing a conference call tomorrow with the "what we MUST know about our booth at E for All" at the 11th hour...this will finally tell us about the set up of the booth plus how I should best create the booth signage. As soon as I can (I teach tomorrow so it won't be right away) I'll put it on the wiki and ping the list. As for coverage for the booth, I will post an initial shift schedule. There is no need for everyone to be there at every minute (booth isn't big enough anyway and it would trash our being able to network). We have Eitan plus 3 others from MIT, 6 of my students from UIUC, Eelke, Reid, and I who will be there. So that's 13 of us available, although some will only be there for 1 or 2 days. I'll put this on the wiki but I also wanted to note these things to the list. Michelle >Hi everyone, > >What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more >than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 > >Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I >won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to >show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off >Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. > >-Reid >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 8 15:17:52 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:17:52 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: Message-ID: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, If you could send me the SPECIFICS of the flyer, I might have a spare hour or so to design one. Specifics include: - paper size (I understand you want two flyers on one page and then one cut so you have two flyers. In this case, send me the size of the complete page that is going to host two flyers) - one or two sided flyer? - text (preferably EXACT text of what you want on flyer) - design wannahaves on the flyer - logo's/links Don't have a lot of time. Prefer to do something in the lines of the previous poster (http://www.game-accessibility.com/pics/artwork/futureplayposter.pdf), like: - 4 target groups - main problems with the four target groups - simple solutions for these problems Send me hi-res copies of logos (Eelke: your website?) if anyone wants their on the flyer. I want to put the GA.com logo on the flyer as well. I might be able to work on this tomorrow so please send me info! (or wiki link ;) Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All planning >I was just about to send an email about that -- We actually only have a >little more than a week. I'm filling out a bunch of forms and getting >everyone registered at this very moment, as that deadline is tomorrow. > > Eelke -- could you put up a list of what accessibility equipment you are > able to bring? I'll then look it over so that I can try and figure out > what I have that you don't and then we can talk about what we will > actually bring (we probably want to have enough with us to mix things up > so that there's something new a couple times a day). > > I know Eitan is having a tough time posting to the wiki -- Eitan -- > just email me with info you want to add. > > So one quick thing via email -- Can ANYONE quickly design a flier with the > SIG info and such or even just get it started with a nice looking > template? If I don't hear from anyone about this by Wednesday, I'll need > to do it myself (ie, it won't be great but it will have to do) and get it > to the printer ASAP. > > In the meantime I'm doing a conference call tomorrow with the "what we > MUST know about our booth at E for All" at the 11th hour...this will > finally tell us about the set up of the booth plus how I should best > create the booth signage. As soon as I can (I teach tomorrow so it won't > be right away) I'll put it on the wiki and ping the list. > > As for coverage for the booth, I will post an initial shift schedule. > There is no need for everyone to be there at every minute (booth isn't big > enough anyway and it would trash our being able to network). We have Eitan > plus 3 others from MIT, 6 of my students from UIUC, Eelke, Reid, and I who > will be there. So that's 13 of us available, although some will only be > there for 1 or 2 days. > > I'll put this on the wiki but I also wanted to note these things to the > list. > > Michelle > >>Hi everyone, >> >>What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more >>than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: >>http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 >> >>Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I >>won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to >>show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off >>Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. >> >>-Reid >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 8 15:28:25 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:28:25 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER In-Reply-To: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: thanks richard! basically i don't have specs other than a 8.5 x 11 inch sized paper that we will cut in half (ie, two fliers per) i'll work on some text also -- this has to be done on the CHEAP -- ie, no color at all, single-sided, and must look decent in black and white. i have to print around 3,000 (to make 6,000 fliers) and that's not gonna be cheap. i'm using a national printing chain so that they can store this in their database in case i need to call them and order more during the show. also, part two -- this is a consumer show -- so the design specs are going to be much less important than getting gamers to join the SIG and be more aware that there are gamers with disabilities. our point for being at this show is to grow our consumer awareness and support ok...back to registering.... >Hi, > >If you could send me the SPECIFICS of the flyer, I might have a >spare hour or so to design one. Specifics include: > >- paper size (I understand you want two flyers on one page and then >one cut so you have two flyers. In this case, send me the size of >the complete page that is going to host two flyers) >- one or two sided flyer? >- text (preferably EXACT text of what you want on flyer) >- design wannahaves on the flyer >- logo's/links > >Don't have a lot of time. Prefer to do something in the lines of the >previous poster >(http://www.game-accessibility.com/pics/artwork/futureplayposter.pdf), >like: > >- 4 target groups >- main problems with the four target groups >- simple solutions for these problems > >Send me hi-res copies of logos (Eelke: your website?) if anyone >wants their on the flyer. I want to put the GA.com logo on the flyer >as well. > >I might be able to work on this tomorrow so please send me info! (or >wiki link ;) > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:36 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All planning > >>I was just about to send an email about that -- We actually only >>have a little more than a week. I'm filling out a bunch of forms >>and getting everyone registered at this very moment, as that >>deadline is tomorrow. >> >>Eelke -- could you put up a list of what accessibility equipment >>you are able to bring? I'll then look it over so that I can try and >>figure out what I have that you don't and then we can talk about >>what we will actually bring (we probably want to have enough with >>us to mix things up so that there's something new a couple times a >>day). >> >>I know Eitan is having a tough time posting to the wiki -- Eitan -- >>just email me with info you want to add. >> >>So one quick thing via email -- Can ANYONE quickly design a flier >>with the SIG info and such or even just get it started with a nice >>looking template? If I don't hear from anyone about this by >>Wednesday, I'll need to do it myself (ie, it won't be great but it >>will have to do) and get it to the printer ASAP. >> >>In the meantime I'm doing a conference call tomorrow with the "what >>we MUST know about our booth at E for All" at the 11th hour...this >>will finally tell us about the set up of the booth plus how I >>should best create the booth signage. As soon as I can (I teach >>tomorrow so it won't be right away) I'll put it on the wiki and >>ping the list. >> >>As for coverage for the booth, I will post an initial shift >>schedule. There is no need for everyone to be there at every minute >>(booth isn't big enough anyway and it would trash our being able to >>network). We have Eitan plus 3 others from MIT, 6 of my students >>from UIUC, Eelke, Reid, and I who will be there. So that's 13 of us >>available, although some will only be there for 1 or 2 days. >> >>I'll put this on the wiki but I also wanted to note these things to the list. >> >>Michelle >> >>>Hi everyone, >>> >>>What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more >>>than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: >>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 >>> >>>Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I >>>won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to >>>show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off >>>Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. >>> >>>-Reid >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Oct 8 17:09:41 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:09:41 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Thanks. Will see what I can do. Btw: can you arrange the check-thing? Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > thanks richard! > > basically i don't have specs other than a 8.5 x 11 inch sized paper that > we will cut in half (ie, two fliers per) > > i'll work on some text > > also -- this has to be done on the CHEAP -- ie, no color at all, > single-sided, and must look decent in black and white. i have to print > around 3,000 (to make 6,000 fliers) and that's not gonna be cheap. i'm > using a national printing chain so that they can store this in their > database in case i need to call them and order more during the show. > > also, part two -- this is a consumer show -- so the design specs are going > to be much less important than getting gamers to join the SIG and be more > aware that there are gamers with disabilities. our point for being at this > show is to grow our consumer awareness and support > > ok...back to registering.... > >>Hi, >> >>If you could send me the SPECIFICS of the flyer, I might have a spare hour >>or so to design one. Specifics include: >> >>- paper size (I understand you want two flyers on one page and then one >>cut so you have two flyers. In this case, send me the size of the complete >>page that is going to host two flyers) >>- one or two sided flyer? >>- text (preferably EXACT text of what you want on flyer) >>- design wannahaves on the flyer >>- logo's/links >> >>Don't have a lot of time. Prefer to do something in the lines of the >>previous poster >>(http://www.game-accessibility.com/pics/artwork/futureplayposter.pdf), >>like: >> >>- 4 target groups >>- main problems with the four target groups >>- simple solutions for these problems >> >>Send me hi-res copies of logos (Eelke: your website?) if anyone wants >>their on the flyer. I want to put the GA.com logo on the flyer as well. >> >>I might be able to work on this tomorrow so please send me info! (or wiki >>link ;) >> >>Greets, >> >>Richard >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:36 PM >>Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All planning >> >>>I was just about to send an email about that -- We actually only have a >>>little more than a week. I'm filling out a bunch of forms and getting >>>everyone registered at this very moment, as that deadline is tomorrow. >>> >>>Eelke -- could you put up a list of what accessibility equipment you are >>>able to bring? I'll then look it over so that I can try and figure out >>>what I have that you don't and then we can talk about what we will >>>actually bring (we probably want to have enough with us to mix things up >>>so that there's something new a couple times a day). >>> >>>I know Eitan is having a tough time posting to the wiki -- Eitan -- >>>just email me with info you want to add. >>> >>>So one quick thing via email -- Can ANYONE quickly design a flier with >>>the SIG info and such or even just get it started with a nice looking >>>template? If I don't hear from anyone about this by Wednesday, I'll need >>>to do it myself (ie, it won't be great but it will have to do) and get it >>>to the printer ASAP. >>> >>>In the meantime I'm doing a conference call tomorrow with the "what we >>>MUST know about our booth at E for All" at the 11th hour...this will >>>finally tell us about the set up of the booth plus how I should best >>>create the booth signage. As soon as I can (I teach tomorrow so it won't >>>be right away) I'll put it on the wiki and ping the list. >>> >>>As for coverage for the booth, I will post an initial shift schedule. >>>There is no need for everyone to be there at every minute (booth isn't >>>big enough anyway and it would trash our being able to network). We have >>>Eitan plus 3 others from MIT, 6 of my students from UIUC, Eelke, Reid, >>>and I who will be there. So that's 13 of us available, although some will >>>only be there for 1 or 2 days. >>> >>>I'll put this on the wiki but I also wanted to note these things to the >>>list. >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>>Hi everyone, >>>> >>>>What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more >>>>than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: >>>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 >>>> >>>>Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I >>>>won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to >>>>show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off >>>>Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. >>>> >>>>-Reid >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 19:02:08 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:02:08 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michelle, > Eelke -- could you put up a list of what accessibility equipment you > are able to bring? I'll then look it over so that I can try and > figure out what I have that you don't and then we can talk about what > we will actually bring (we probably want to have enough with us to > mix things up so that there's something new a couple times a day). Okay here some of my equipment: - quad controller - one handed controller - split controller - I can bring a ps2/ps3/xbox360/wii (though i prefer not to bring the 360/ps3 because of the weight). cheers Eelke > I know Eitan is having a tough time posting to the wiki -- Eitan -- > just email me with info you want to add. > > So one quick thing via email -- Can ANYONE quickly design a flier > with the SIG info and such or even just get it started with a nice > looking template? If I don't hear from anyone about this by > Wednesday, I'll need to do it myself (ie, it won't be great but it > will have to do) and get it to the printer ASAP. > > In the meantime I'm doing a conference call tomorrow with the "what > we MUST know about our booth at E for All" at the 11th hour...this > will finally tell us about the set up of the booth plus how I should > best create the booth signage. As soon as I can (I teach tomorrow so > it won't be right away) I'll put it on the wiki and ping the list. > > As for coverage for the booth, I will post an initial shift schedule. > There is no need for everyone to be there at every minute (booth > isn't big enough anyway and it would trash our being able to > network). We have Eitan plus 3 others from MIT, 6 of my students from > UIUC, Eelke, Reid, and I who will be there. So that's 13 of us > available, although some will only be there for 1 or 2 days. > > I'll put this on the wiki but I also wanted to note these things to the list. > > Michelle > > >Hi everyone, > > > >What's the status of our planning for E for All? We have a little more > >than 2 weeks to get organized. Please update relevant info here: > >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_E_for_All_2007 > > > >Unfortunately, this is going to be a rough month for me at work and I > >won't have time to do any preparation for E for All. I'll be able to > >show up Saturday morning and help with whatever and hopefully show off > >Doom3[CC] until I leave Sunday afternoon. > > > >-Reid > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 8 20:39:30 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:39:30 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Eelke said: >Okay here some of my equipment: >- quad controller >- one handed controller >- split controller >- I can bring a ps2/ps3/xbox360/wii (though i prefer not to bring the >360/ps3 because of the weight). Let's forget about the PS3 and I can bring the 360 if we decide we need it -- I'm not sure that we do. It might be better to bring a couple PS2's than one 360. Things move fast when you are prepping for a convention/expo, as I've found out so now there's an issue with power strips and carpet and TVs and drapes for tables...labor unions and contract workers...etc, etc, etc. Anyway, tomorrow I'm talking to someone else on the E for All staff that will help me figure out which forms needed to be filled out months ago. An expo is a totally different ballgame than a conference like GDC. I imagine that this will make planning for the GDC booth a lot easier but that's not helping me right now! Bottom line? I won't know how much power and how many outlets and table size options until mid-day tomorrow and then I teach. I noticed on the wiki that you were planning to be there all 4 days of the expo and possibly including the set up day on Wednesday. That's very cool because the equipment is going to be covered by you, me, and Eitan so we bring the show. So if you bring two laptops (meaning two power outlets -- if you need more, please tell me ASAP!!) and a console (meaning two power outlets, including one for the TV I have to order), you'll need four power outlets. I'm assuming you are flying so bringing a TV is ridiculously out of the question. I know it is for me. Assuming we can get two displays/TVs, I'll bring another PS2 (2 outlets) and a PC laptop (1 outlet). That brings us to 7 power outlets. So what I need to know ASAP is: Eitan -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? can you bring one if you do or is this something I need to order? Reid -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? I'm pretty sure you were just bringing a laptop but I get things wrong sometimes. :D We'll most likely end up switching what's shown on each TV and laptop very frequently because I really don't think we can really fit more than one TV unless they are small. So...wow...yeah...I don't even want to think about how much time GDC and E for All has eaten into my schedule over the past two weeks. Yeesh... Michelle From glinert at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 8 22:05:42 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:05:42 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071008215509.0a28dac0@po12.mit.edu> The MIT side will not need TVs. We'll be bringing 2 (maybe 3?) laptops for AudiOdyssey, and potentially 2 or 3 XO's (the one laptop per child laptops). I'll be sure to bring a power strip. We'll also have a couple of Wiimotes, and maybe speakers. I have no idea how big the booth is, so I don't know what is feasible as far as what we can show off. If it's small, I suppose we'll only use one laptop. Eitan At 08:39 PM 10/8/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >Eelke said: > >>Okay here some of my equipment: >>- quad controller >>- one handed controller >>- split controller >>- I can bring a ps2/ps3/xbox360/wii (though i prefer not to bring the >>360/ps3 because of the weight). > >Let's forget about the PS3 and I can bring the 360 if we decide we need it >-- I'm not sure that we do. It might be better to bring a couple PS2's >than one 360. > >Things move fast when you are prepping for a convention/expo, as I've >found out so now there's an issue with power strips and carpet and TVs and >drapes for tables...labor unions and contract workers...etc, etc, etc. >Anyway, tomorrow I'm talking to someone else on the E for All staff that >will help me figure out which forms needed to be filled out months ago. An >expo is a totally different ballgame than a conference like GDC. I imagine >that this will make planning for the GDC booth a lot easier but that's not >helping me right now! > >Bottom line? I won't know how much power and how many outlets and table >size options until mid-day tomorrow and then I teach. > >I noticed on the wiki that you were planning to be there all 4 days of the >expo and possibly including the set up day on Wednesday. That's very cool >because the equipment is going to be covered by you, me, and Eitan so we >bring the show. > >So if you bring two laptops (meaning two power outlets -- if you need >more, please tell me ASAP!!) and a console (meaning two power outlets, >including one for the TV I have to order), you'll need four power outlets. >I'm assuming you are flying so bringing a TV is ridiculously out of the >question. I know it is for me. > >Assuming we can get two displays/TVs, I'll bring another PS2 (2 outlets) >and a PC laptop (1 outlet). > >That brings us to 7 power outlets. So what I need to know ASAP is: > >Eitan -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? can you >bring one if you do or is this something I need to order? > >Reid -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? I'm >pretty sure you were just bringing a laptop but I get things wrong >sometimes. :D > >We'll most likely end up switching what's shown on each TV and laptop very >frequently because I really don't think we can really fit more than one TV >unless they are small. > >So...wow...yeah...I don't even want to think about how much time GDC and E >for All has eaten into my schedule over the past two weeks. Yeesh... > >Michelle >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 8 23:57:13 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:57:13 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071008215509.0a28dac0@po12.mit.edu> References: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071008215509.0a28dac0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: The booth is 10 x 10 so we'll be pretty squashed in there. I'll know more tomorrow about the upper limit of what we can stuff in at any one time. So you potentially will be using 4 - 6 items that need to be plugged in? I have to know the exact number of plugs (not counting the power strip) believe it or not. Then there are the Union Labor Contracts...something about if it takes us more than 30 minutes to set up we have to step aside and let the union take over and do the rest of the set up!?! Michelle >The MIT side will not need TVs. We'll be bringing 2 (maybe 3?) >laptops for AudiOdyssey, and potentially 2 or 3 XO's (the one laptop >per child laptops). I'll be sure to bring a power strip. We'll also >have a couple of Wiimotes, and maybe speakers. > >I have no idea how big the booth is, so I don't know what is >feasible as far as what we can show off. If it's small, I suppose >we'll only use one laptop. > >Eitan > >At 08:39 PM 10/8/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>Eelke said: >> >>>Okay here some of my equipment: >>>- quad controller >>>- one handed controller >>>- split controller >>>- I can bring a ps2/ps3/xbox360/wii (though i prefer not to bring the >>>360/ps3 because of the weight). >> >>Let's forget about the PS3 and I can bring the 360 if we decide we >>need it -- I'm not sure that we do. It might be better to bring a >>couple PS2's than one 360. >> >>Things move fast when you are prepping for a convention/expo, as >>I've found out so now there's an issue with power strips and carpet >>and TVs and drapes for tables...labor unions and contract >>workers...etc, etc, etc. Anyway, tomorrow I'm talking to someone >>else on the E for All staff that will help me figure out which >>forms needed to be filled out months ago. An expo is a totally >>different ballgame than a conference like GDC. I imagine that this >>will make planning for the GDC booth a lot easier but that's not >>helping me right now! >> >>Bottom line? I won't know how much power and how many outlets and >>table size options until mid-day tomorrow and then I teach. >> >>I noticed on the wiki that you were planning to be there all 4 days >>of the expo and possibly including the set up day on Wednesday. >>That's very cool because the equipment is going to be covered by >>you, me, and Eitan so we bring the show. >> >>So if you bring two laptops (meaning two power outlets -- if you >>need more, please tell me ASAP!!) and a console (meaning two power >>outlets, including one for the TV I have to order), you'll need >>four power outlets. I'm assuming you are flying so bringing a TV is >>ridiculously out of the question. I know it is for me. >> >>Assuming we can get two displays/TVs, I'll bring another PS2 (2 >>outlets) and a PC laptop (1 outlet). >> >>That brings us to 7 power outlets. So what I need to know ASAP is: >> >>Eitan -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? >>can you bring one if you do or is this something I need to order? >> >>Reid -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? >>I'm pretty sure you were just bringing a laptop but I get things >>wrong sometimes. :D >> >>We'll most likely end up switching what's shown on each TV and >>laptop very frequently because I really don't think we can really >>fit more than one TV unless they are small. >> >>So...wow...yeah...I don't even want to think about how much time >>GDC and E for All has eaten into my schedule over the past two >>weeks. Yeesh... >> >>Michelle >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 14:54:02 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:54:02 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi Guys, Been working on a flyer design. See : http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the flyer, email the list and work it out. Gotta go now! Richard From reid at rbkdesign.com Tue Oct 9 14:58:43 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:58:43 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER In-Reply-To: <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Looks great, definitely put the booth info on the flyer. I think the fliers should be used to get people to visit the booth and then they can get more info from us. -Reid On 10/9/07, AudioGames.net wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Been working on a flyer design. See : > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg > > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show how > they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the flyer, > email the list and work it out. > > Gotta go now! > > Richard > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Oct 9 15:19:12 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:19:12 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible font in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at all. The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Hi Guys, > > Been working on a flyer design. See : > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg > > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the flyer, > email the list and work it out. > > Gotta go now! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Oct 9 15:19:12 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:19:12 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible font in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at all. The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Hi Guys, > > Been working on a flyer design. See : > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg > > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the flyer, > email the list and work it out. > > Gotta go now! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From reid at rbkdesign.com Tue Oct 9 15:27:42 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:27:42 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER In-Reply-To: <017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje> <001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> <017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! Why not say, "Games for All"? BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker already. -Reid On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: > The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible font > in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at all. > The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. > > Barrie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Been working on a flyer design. See : > > > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg > > > > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show > > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. > > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the flyer, > > email the list and work it out. > > > > Gotta go now! > > > > Richard > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 15:45:32 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:45:32 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> <017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <006c01c80aac$f466ce50$6402a8c0@Delletje> .. (big grin) knew you would be the one to come up with that ;) Will see if resizing works a bit but prefer to keep it in this font for design-reasons (oowh!)... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Ellis" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible font > in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at > all. The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. > > Barrie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> Hi Guys, >> >> Been working on a flyer design. See : >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >> >> Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show >> how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. >> Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >> flyer, email the list and work it out. >> >> Gotta go now! >> >> Richard >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 15:45:49 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:45:49 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <007301c80aac$ff833260$6402a8c0@Delletje> Where can I find the Booth info? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Looks great, definitely put the booth info on the flyer. I think the > fliers should be used to get people to visit the booth and then they > can get more info from us. > > -Reid > > On 10/9/07, AudioGames.net wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> Been working on a flyer design. See : >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >> >> Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show >> how >> they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. >> Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >> flyer, >> email the list and work it out. >> >> Gotta go now! >> >> Richard >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Oct 9 16:10:04 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:10:04 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <006c01c80aac$f466ce50$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <019e01c80ab0$62c022e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Glad not to disappoint you(!) Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > .. (big grin) knew you would be the one to come up with that ;) Will see > if resizing works a bit but prefer to keep it in this font for > design-reasons (oowh!)... > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barrie Ellis" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:19 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >> font in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it >> at all. The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >> >> Barrie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AudioGames.net" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >> >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> Been working on a flyer design. See : >>> >>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>> >>> Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show >>> how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. >>> Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>> flyer, email the list and work it out. >>> >>> Gotta go now! >>> >>> Richard >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 16:49:58 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:49:58 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><006c01c80aac$f466ce50$6402a8c0@Delletje> <019e01c80ab0$62c022e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <000e01c80ab5$f4e02df0$6402a8c0@Delletje> (bigger grin) ... ;)... no not at all!... Actually, whenever I even press the "Italic"-button a Virtual Barrie pops up in my mind saying "Watch it, Dude...".... ;) (after which Aesthetic Ries starts ranting about designs and freedom...) (after which Accessibility Ries comes in and back Virtual Barrie up) Greets, Ries (ooow... the mess in my head..) ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Ellis" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Glad not to disappoint you(!) > > Barrie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> .. (big grin) knew you would be the one to come up with that ;) Will see >> if resizing works a bit but prefer to keep it in this font for >> design-reasons (oowh!)... >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Barrie Ellis" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >> >> >>> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >>> font in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read >>> it at all. The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >>> >>> Barrie >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "AudioGames.net" >>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>> >>> >>>> Hi Guys, >>>> >>>> Been working on a flyer design. See : >>>> >>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>>> >>>> Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show >>>> how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. >>>> Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>>> flyer, email the list and work it out. >>>> >>>> Gotta go now! >>>> >>>> Richard >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 16:53:17 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:53:17 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje> "Games for All" is fine with me... but I prefer "Because everyone wants to save the universe" because it is a bit more witty and also (together with the style of the design) for me it is a bit of a reference to designs like Hard Rock Cafe - "Save The Planet"... Btw... the font is quite readable when it is not automatically scaled in your browser... but I'll see what I can do... won't do much good if nobody can read it :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! > > Why not say, "Games for All"? > > BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress > took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker > already. > > -Reid > > On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >> font >> in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at >> all. >> The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >> >> Barrie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AudioGames.net" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >> >> >> > Hi Guys, >> > >> > Been working on a flyer design. See : >> > >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >> > >> > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to show >> > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the design. >> > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >> > flyer, >> > email the list and work it out. >> > >> > Gotta go now! >> > >> > Richard >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 16:56:01 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:56:01 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <001001c80ab6$cf0276f0$6402a8c0@Delletje> ps: concerning the Underscore-font - I will look for a more readable font but still a bit like this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > "Games for All" is fine with me... but I prefer "Because everyone wants to > save the universe" because it is a bit more witty and also (together with > the style of the design) for me it is a bit of a reference to designs like > Hard Rock Cafe - "Save The Planet"... > > Btw... the font is quite readable when it is not automatically scaled in > your browser... but I'll see what I can do... won't do much good if nobody > can read it :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reid Kimball" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:27 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! >> >> Why not say, "Games for All"? >> >> BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress >> took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker >> already. >> >> -Reid >> >> On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >>> font >>> in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at >>> all. >>> The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >>> >>> Barrie >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "AudioGames.net" >>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>> >>> >>> > Hi Guys, >>> > >>> > Been working on a flyer design. See : >>> > >>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>> > >>> > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to >>> > show >>> > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the >>> > design. >>> > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>> > flyer, >>> > email the list and work it out. >>> > >>> > Gotta go now! >>> > >>> > Richard >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > games_access mailing list >>> > games_access at igda.org >>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Oct 9 16:57:45 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:57:45 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <002d01c80ab7$0b0d67e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Amazing! Glad it wasn't a completely pointless exercise battling with Cafe Press - good on you! Don't feel compelled to wear your single T-shirt on all 4 days of the conference though! Barrie > BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress > took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker > already. > > -Reid From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 16:58:11 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:58:11 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> "BADGE"... was the word to describe my design perspective... couldn't think of it in my earlier emails. But I made this with the idea of making a "game accessibility badge" in mind. Something that would also do good on a t-shirt but also on the back of a hells angels jacket :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > "Games for All" is fine with me... but I prefer "Because everyone wants to > save the universe" because it is a bit more witty and also (together with > the style of the design) for me it is a bit of a reference to designs like > Hard Rock Cafe - "Save The Planet"... > > Btw... the font is quite readable when it is not automatically scaled in > your browser... but I'll see what I can do... won't do much good if nobody > can read it :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reid Kimball" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:27 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! >> >> Why not say, "Games for All"? >> >> BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress >> took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker >> already. >> >> -Reid >> >> On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >>> font >>> in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at >>> all. >>> The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >>> >>> Barrie >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "AudioGames.net" >>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>> >>> >>> > Hi Guys, >>> > >>> > Been working on a flyer design. See : >>> > >>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>> > >>> > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to >>> > show >>> > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the >>> > design. >>> > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>> > flyer, >>> > email the list and work it out. >>> > >>> > Gotta go now! >>> > >>> > Richard >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > games_access mailing list >>> > games_access at igda.org >>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 16:59:08 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:59:08 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <002d01c80ab7$0b0d67e0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <001b01c80ab7$3d8a0ed0$6402a8c0@Delletje> I say Put it on ebay!!!! (maybe Barrie can even sign it?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Ellis" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > Amazing! Glad it wasn't a completely pointless exercise battling with Cafe > Press - good on you! Don't feel compelled to wear your single T-shirt on > all 4 days of the conference though! > > Barrie > > >> BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress >> took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker >> already. >> >> -Reid > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 17:08:29 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:08:29 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje> <001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> err.... correction... I meant to say "PATCH" .... ;) (as in: iron-on patch) blush Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > "BADGE"... was the word to describe my design perspective... couldn't > think of it in my earlier emails. But I made this with the idea of making > a "game accessibility badge" in mind. Something that would also do good on > a t-shirt but also on the back of a hells angels jacket :) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:53 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> "Games for All" is fine with me... but I prefer "Because everyone wants >> to save the universe" because it is a bit more witty and also (together >> with the style of the design) for me it is a bit of a reference to >> designs like Hard Rock Cafe - "Save The Planet"... >> >> Btw... the font is quite readable when it is not automatically scaled in >> your browser... but I'll see what I can do... won't do much good if >> nobody can read it :) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Reid Kimball" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >> >> >>> Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! >>> >>> Why not say, "Games for All"? >>> >>> BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress >>> took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker >>> already. >>> >>> -Reid >>> >>> On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>>> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >>>> font >>>> in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it at >>>> all. >>>> The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >>>> >>>> Barrie >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "AudioGames.net" >>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>>> >>>> >>>> > Hi Guys, >>>> > >>>> > Been working on a flyer design. See : >>>> > >>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>>> > >>>> > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to >>>> > show >>>> > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the >>>> > design. >>>> > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>>> > flyer, >>>> > email the list and work it out. >>>> > >>>> > Gotta go now! >>>> > >>>> > Richard >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > games_access mailing list >>>> > games_access at igda.org >>>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Tue Oct 9 17:09:52 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:09:52 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All FLYER References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> Which actually would be really great hand-outs next time at a conference when we got lots of money to spend... :) Iron-On Game Accessibility Patches :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "AudioGames.net" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > err.... correction... I meant to say "PATCH" .... ;) > > (as in: iron-on patch) > > blush > > Richard > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER > > >> "BADGE"... was the word to describe my design perspective... couldn't >> think of it in my earlier emails. But I made this with the idea of making >> a "game accessibility badge" in mind. Something that would also do good >> on a t-shirt but also on the back of a hells angels jacket :) >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AudioGames.net" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >> >> >>> "Games for All" is fine with me... but I prefer "Because everyone wants >>> to save the universe" because it is a bit more witty and also (together >>> with the style of the design) for me it is a bit of a reference to >>> designs like Hard Rock Cafe - "Save The Planet"... >>> >>> Btw... the font is quite readable when it is not automatically scaled in >>> your browser... but I'll see what I can do... won't do much good if >>> nobody can read it :) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Reid Kimball" >>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:27 PM >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>> >>> >>>> Oh, I didn't even see it the first time! >>>> >>>> Why not say, "Games for All"? >>>> >>>> BTW, I somehow got to order the shirt Barrie made before CafePress >>>> took it down, looks really cool and got the attention of one co-worker >>>> already. >>>> >>>> -Reid >>>> >>>> On 10/9/07, Barrie Ellis wrote: >>>>> The grey "everyone wants to save the universe" isn't the most legible >>>>> font >>>>> in the world. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be able to read it >>>>> at all. >>>>> The rest of it looks very nice indeed though. >>>>> >>>>> Barrie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All FLYER >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Hi Guys, >>>>> > >>>>> > Been working on a flyer design. See : >>>>> > >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0004.jpg >>>>> > >>>>> > Went for a more bike/emo/gamer approach. Ghosts are just put in to >>>>> > show >>>>> > how they look in greyscale - placement/size/function not in the >>>>> > design. >>>>> > Put in some Lorem Ipsum text. If any of you know what to put on the >>>>> > flyer, >>>>> > email the list and work it out. >>>>> > >>>>> > Gotta go now! >>>>> > >>>>> > Richard >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > games_access mailing list >>>>> > games_access at igda.org >>>>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From brannonz at microsoft.com Tue Oct 9 19:36:14 2007 From: brannonz at microsoft.com (Brannon Zahand) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:36:14 -0700 Subject: [games_access] CNET Article on Technology and Aging In-Reply-To: <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> http://www.news.com/As-boomers-go-gray%2C-will-big-money-mean-better-tech/2100-1041_3-6212329.html?tag=nefd.lede Hey all... it's been awhile, but I thought I'd drop a line as this article came out about technology for the aging demographic at the AARP National Convention. I'm mentioned in it, although I'm a bit frustrated as I was slightly misquoted a few times (for example: "my Grandmother could set up an Xbox in 10 minutes" versus "I could help my Grandmother set up an Xbox in 10 minutes"). But at least the coverage is good for the cause. -Brannon From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 19:36:20 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:36:20 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All planning In-Reply-To: References: <836db6300710081602t6cffd206o613157dc040f99f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710091636m4be8140asc4ae9f74116ea0ba@mail.gmail.com> Hi michelle, i'll bring my slimline ps2 + 1 mac + 1 windows machine so I need 3 plugs at most. I can bring a powerstrip myself. cheers Eelke On 10/8/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Eelke said: > > >Okay here some of my equipment: > >- quad controller > >- one handed controller > >- split controller > >- I can bring a ps2/ps3/xbox360/wii (though i prefer not to bring the > >360/ps3 because of the weight). > > Let's forget about the PS3 and I can bring the 360 if we decide we > need it -- I'm not sure that we do. It might be better to bring a > couple PS2's than one 360. > > Things move fast when you are prepping for a convention/expo, as I've > found out so now there's an issue with power strips and carpet and > TVs and drapes for tables...labor unions and contract workers...etc, > etc, etc. Anyway, tomorrow I'm talking to someone else on the E for > All staff that will help me figure out which forms needed to be > filled out months ago. An expo is a totally different ballgame than a > conference like GDC. I imagine that this will make planning for the > GDC booth a lot easier but that's not helping me right now! > > Bottom line? I won't know how much power and how many outlets and > table size options until mid-day tomorrow and then I teach. > > I noticed on the wiki that you were planning to be there all 4 days > of the expo and possibly including the set up day on Wednesday. > That's very cool because the equipment is going to be covered by you, > me, and Eitan so we bring the show. > > So if you bring two laptops (meaning two power outlets -- if you need > more, please tell me ASAP!!) and a console (meaning two power > outlets, including one for the TV I have to order), you'll need four > power outlets. I'm assuming you are flying so bringing a TV is > ridiculously out of the question. I know it is for me. > > Assuming we can get two displays/TVs, I'll bring another PS2 (2 > outlets) and a PC laptop (1 outlet). > > That brings us to 7 power outlets. So what I need to know ASAP is: > > Eitan -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? > can you bring one if you do or is this something I need to order? > > Reid -- how many power outlets will you need? will you need a TV? I'm > pretty sure you were just bringing a laptop but I get things wrong > sometimes. :D > > We'll most likely end up switching what's shown on each TV and laptop > very frequently because I really don't think we can really fit more > than one TV unless they are small. > > So...wow...yeah...I don't even want to think about how much time GDC > and E for All has eaten into my schedule over the past two weeks. > Yeesh... > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Oct 10 03:13:22 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:13:22 +0100 Subject: [games_access] CNET Article on Technology and Aging References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <006801c80b0d$0b65a3f0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> That's journalists for you in general - however - I enjoyed the article - and great to get the last word in, Brannon. Nice. Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brannon Zahand" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:36 AM Subject: [games_access] CNET Article on Technology and Aging > http://www.news.com/As-boomers-go-gray%2C-will-big-money-mean-better-tech/2100-1041_3-6212329.html?tag=nefd.lede > > Hey all... it's been awhile, but I thought I'd drop a line as this article > came out about technology for the aging demographic at the AARP National > Convention. I'm mentioned in it, although I'm a bit frustrated as I was > slightly misquoted a few times (for example: "my Grandmother could set up > an Xbox in 10 minutes" versus "I could help my Grandmother set up an Xbox > in 10 minutes"). But at least the coverage is good for the cause. > > -Brannon > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Oct 10 04:03:30 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:03:30 +0100 Subject: [games_access] CNET Article on Technology and Aging References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Hi Brannon - just blogged the article up at the IGDA GASIG blog here: http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/search/label/articles Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brannon Zahand" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:36 AM Subject: [games_access] CNET Article on Technology and Aging > http://www.news.com/As-boomers-go-gray%2C-will-big-money-mean-better-tech/2100-1041_3-6212329.html?tag=nefd.lede > > Hey all... it's been awhile, but I thought I'd drop a line as this article > came out about technology for the aging demographic at the AARP National > Convention. I'm mentioned in it, although I'm a bit frustrated as I was > slightly misquoted a few times (for example: "my Grandmother could set up > an Xbox in 10 minutes" versus "I could help my Grandmother set up an Xbox > in 10 minutes"). But at least the coverage is good for the cause. > > -Brannon > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 10 12:26:10 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:10 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje>< 017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><0013 01c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Dellet je><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.mic rosoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: Hi all, Ok some really bad news... I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, etc). Wow. Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at this point). More bad news...the GDC booth... There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going to be tacked on. Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked to get these until I put it into excel. So thoughts? Ideas? Michelle From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Oct 10 13:06:21 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:06:21 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. I can put a bit towards the show too. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths > Hi all, > > Ok some really bad news... > > I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as E for > All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to play one with > the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up to a thousand dollars > for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole exact number of things that > need to be plugged in, union money, etc). Wow. > > Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two unions > that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our booth and (2) > actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes more than one person 30 > minutes to set up the whole booth. Yeah...and I heard from a friend who > used to exhibit at E3 that the unions will watch people like hawks.. I > realize that we have a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, > not everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up will > occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can be done > quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. > > If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm about to > learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll obviously just need to > eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out credit card) at this point but > any/all donations and/or ideas for post-show sponsorship is GREATLY > appreciated. If you have ideas for last minute fund raising...please let > me know with exact details and contact info (please don't just tell me to > ask disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at this > point). > > More bad news...the GDC booth... > > There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the cost of > the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both shows) and I'm > waiting to find out the total for a 100 square foot booth (same size as E > for All) -- CMP is going to give us a significant discount but I just > don't know what this entails. Because we are finding this out now, we have > time to beg for a few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is > earning revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none > of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the bulk of the > fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And I'm ok with that. But > the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, drapes for the tables, the > cost of the tables, etc is also going to be tacked on. > > Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we didn't have > a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games one now but that won't > get the people that don't show up until Wednesday. I really want this > booth to work out. And we have time to raise some cash because we have a > few months to do so. So if we can come close to cost, that will be better > than nothing. > > Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant boost and we > can get more press attention and dev and gamer attention (all are > important in spreading the word). For E for All I have (believe it or not) > sent over 700 press release style emails to raise press awareness) -- can > you believe my contact list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I > have worked to get these until I put it into excel. > > So thoughts? Ideas? > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 10 13:14:07 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:14:07 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje>< 017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><0013 01c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Dellet je><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959A B8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on the blog -- great idea. To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. Now to talk to the electrician union... Michelle >Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it >would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. > >I can put a bit towards the show too. > >Barrie >www.OneSwitch.org.uk > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM >Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths > >>Hi all, >> >>Ok some really bad news... >> >>I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as E >>for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up to >>a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>etc). Wow. >> >>Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that the >>unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have a >>number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not everyone >>will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up will occur >>later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can be done >>quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >> >>If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas for >>last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact details >>and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask disability >>organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at this point). >> >>More bad news...the GDC booth... >> >>There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square foot >>booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a few >>hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the bulk >>of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And I'm ok >>with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, drapes >>for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going to be >>tacked on. >> >>Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games one >>now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if we >>can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >> >>Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant boost >>and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer attention >>(all are important in spreading the word). For E for All I have >>(believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style emails to >>raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact list is that >>big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked to get these >>until I put it into excel. >> >>So thoughts? Ideas? >> >>Michelle >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Oct 10 15:38:17 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:38:17 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: Hi Michelle, ouch, 1200 dollars... I have another idea: Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth and explain why And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving you 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of it back. Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more /Thomas 10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: > Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on > the blog -- great idea. > > To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 > (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my > misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than > $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. > > Now to talk to the electrician union... > > Michelle > >> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it >> would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. >> >> I can put a bit towards the show too. >> >> Barrie >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM >> Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Ok some really bad news... >>> >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>> etc). Wow. >>> >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >>> >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >>> this point). >>> >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... >>> >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >>> to be tacked on. >>> >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >>> >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >>> to get these until I put it into excel. >>> >>> So thoughts? Ideas? >>> >>> Michelle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Oct 10 15:48:35 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:48:35 +0200 Subject: [games_access] flashback Message-ID: <706CE9CD-C49E-400A-87E9-2C4810B48CB1@pininteractive.com> Just read this article http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1946/ designing_a_gameless_game_sulka_.php which reminded me -the first ever attendee of the IGDA GA-SIG session at GDC, the first roundtable in 2004, was a developer of Habbo Hotel hmm... wonder if they have made it (deliberately) accessible in one way or another ? should add that the poor Finnish guy had gone to the wrong room but I and G?ran held him hostage for a full hour roundtable :) /Thomas From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Wed Oct 10 17:29:42 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:29:42 -0400 Subject: [games_access] flashback In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwE7CoA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwE7CoA Message-ID: <004d01c80b84$abc9d920$6501a8c0@Inspiron> That's interesting. Don't know exactly what that means the I hope it's good. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Westin Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:49 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] flashback Just read this article http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1946/ designing_a_gameless_game_sulka_.php which reminded me -the first ever attendee of the IGDA GA-SIG session at GDC, the first roundtable in 2004, was a developer of Habbo Hotel hmm... wonder if they have made it (deliberately) accessible in one way or another ? should add that the poor Finnish guy had gone to the wrong room but I and G?ran held him hostage for a full hour roundtable :) /Thomas _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 10 18:23:14 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:23:14 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje>< 017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><0013 01c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Dellet je><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959A B8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f 600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><022701c80b5 f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: Nice idea but we have to pay $$$ to ask for donations or to sell directly from the booth -- so that is another $1000. Welcome to the US, I guess...rrrrrrr... Michelle >Hi Michelle, > >ouch, 1200 dollars... > >I have another idea: > >Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth >and explain why > >And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a >simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving >you 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of >course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of >it back. > >Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more > >/Thomas > > > >10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >>Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on >>the blog -- great idea. >> >>To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 >>(they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my >>misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than >>$1200. This is coming out of my pocket. >> >>Now to talk to the electrician union... >> >>Michelle >> >>>Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it >>>would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. >>> >>>I can put a bit towards the show too. >>> >>>Barrie >>>www.OneSwitch.org.uk >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >>>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM >>>Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths >>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>Ok some really bad news... >>>> >>>>I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >>>>E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>>>play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >>>>to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>>>exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>>>etc). Wow. >>>> >>>>Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>>>unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>>>booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>>>more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>>>Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >>>>the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >>>>a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >>>>everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >>>>will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >>>>be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >>>> >>>>If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>>>about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>>>obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>>>credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>>>post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >>>>for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >>>>details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >>>>disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >>>>this point). >>>> >>>>More bad news...the GDC booth... >>>> >>>>There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>>>cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>>>shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >>>>foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>>>significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>>>Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >>>>few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>>>revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>>>of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >>>>bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >>>>I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >>>>drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >>>>to be tacked on. >>>> >>>>Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>>>didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >>>>one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>>>Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>>>to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >>>>we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >>>> >>>>Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >>>>boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >>>>attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >>>>All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >>>>emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >>>>list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >>>>to get these until I put it into excel. >>>> >>>>So thoughts? Ideas? >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 20:30:19 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:30:19 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <836db6300710101730o67cf9912n32592483eebb2fb5@mail.gmail.com> Hmmmm..... It sounds like some crazy mafia scheme imposed by Tony Soprano himself ;-) what if we don't use any powerplugs at all? One of my friend had a booth at that same conference center and he just brought laptops and didn't use anything that needed to be "hauled" (the union has to do that). We can all bring laptops and charge them anywhere. 1200 bucks is too much to pay for a non profit organisation like us. cheers Eelke On 10/10/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > Hi Michelle, > > ouch, 1200 dollars... > > I have another idea: > > Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth and > explain why > > And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a > simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving you > 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of > course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of > it back. > > Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more > > /Thomas > > > > 10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: > > > Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on > > the blog -- great idea. > > > > To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 > > (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my > > misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than > > $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. > > > > Now to talk to the electrician union... > > > > Michelle > > > >> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it > >> would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. > >> > >> I can put a bit towards the show too. > >> > >> Barrie > >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM > >> Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths > >> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> Ok some really bad news... > >>> > >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as > >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to > >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up > >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole > >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, > >>> etc). Wow. > >>> > >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two > >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our > >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes > >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. > >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that > >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have > >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not > >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up > >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can > >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. > >>> > >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm > >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll > >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out > >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for > >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas > >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact > >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask > >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at > >>> this point). > >>> > >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... > >>> > >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the > >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both > >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square > >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a > >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. > >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a > >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning > >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none > >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the > >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And > >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, > >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going > >>> to be tacked on. > >>> > >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we > >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games > >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until > >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time > >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if > >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. > >>> > >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant > >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer > >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for > >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style > >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact > >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked > >>> to get these until I put it into excel. > >>> > >>> So thoughts? Ideas? > >>> > >>> Michelle > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> games_access mailing list > >>> games_access at igda.org > >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 10 22:56:13 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:56:13 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: <836db6300710101730o67cf9912n32592483eebb2fb5@mail.gmail.com> References: <001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.mic rosoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710101730o67cf9912n32592483eebb2fb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The $1200 is just not the power -- that's way cheaper than I though. it's the carpet requirement, etc and all the other little details that add up to $1200. I had twenty forms to fill out and price them down. I'll explain more tomorrow when I'm not faxing forms like crazy. If I could even get half of the money I'd be happy....well, happier ;) Keep in mind...they gave us huge discounts because we are non profit...I can't even imagine people how much, say, Microsoft is paying... Also, the stuff we haul...we get to be allowed to haul what ONE PERSON can CARRY TO THE BOOTH each day...and Eelke...We have giant wheeled suitcases shoulder bags and more and you are a tall tall guy. :) The union has let us have a lot of leeway thank goodness. The table was one of the more pricey items...but the biggest thing that was necessary!!! M >Hmmmm..... > >It sounds like some crazy mafia scheme imposed by Tony Soprano himself ;-) > >what if we don't use any powerplugs at all? One of my friend had a >booth at that same conference center and he just brought laptops and >didn't use anything that needed to be "hauled" (the union has to do >that). We can all bring laptops and charge them anywhere. 1200 bucks >is too much to pay for a non profit organisation like us. > >cheers Eelke > > > > >On 10/10/07, Thomas Westin wrote: >> Hi Michelle, >> >> ouch, 1200 dollars... >> >> I have another idea: >> >> Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth and >> explain why >> >> And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a >> simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving you >> 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of >> course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of >> it back. >> >> Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more >> >> /Thomas >> >> >> >> 10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: >> >> > Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on >> > the blog -- great idea. >> > >> > To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 >> > (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my >> > misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than >> > $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. >> > >> > Now to talk to the electrician union... >> > >> > Michelle >> > >> >> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it >> >> would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. >> >> >> >> I can put a bit towards the show too. >> >> >> >> Barrie >> >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM >> >> Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths >> >> >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> >> >>> Ok some really bad news... >> >>> >> >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >> >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >> >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >> >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >> >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >> >>> etc). Wow. >> >>> >> >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >> >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >> >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >> >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >> >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >> >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >> >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >> >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >> >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >> >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. > > >>> >> >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >> >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >> >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >> >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >> >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >> >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >> >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >> >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >> >>> this point). >> >>> >> >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... >> >>> >> >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >> >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >> >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >> >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >> >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >> >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >> >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >> >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >> >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >> >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >> >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >> >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >> >>> to be tacked on. >> >>> >> >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >> >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >> >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >> >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >> >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >> >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >> >>> >> >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >> >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >> >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >> >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >> >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >> >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >> >>> to get these until I put it into excel. >> >>> >> >>> So thoughts? Ideas? >> >>> >> >>> Michelle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 04:03:21 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:03:21 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710101730o67cf9912n32592483eebb2fb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710110103n515a6e4ew98d08b1156ef6204@mail.gmail.com> Hey michele! I just did my workout! so I'd be glad to help you carry stuff! Did you pay the $1200 yourself???? that's crazy. we should all chip in for those costs. cheers eelke On 10/10/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > The $1200 is just not the power -- that's way cheaper than I though. > it's the carpet requirement, etc and all the other little details > that add up to $1200. I had twenty forms to fill out and price them > down. I'll explain more tomorrow when I'm not faxing forms like > crazy. If I could even get half of the money I'd be happy....well, > happier ;) > > Keep in mind...they gave us huge discounts because we are non > profit...I can't even imagine people how much, say, Microsoft is > paying... > > Also, the stuff we haul...we get to be allowed to haul what ONE > PERSON can CARRY TO THE BOOTH each day...and Eelke...We have giant > wheeled suitcases shoulder bags and more and you are a tall tall guy. > :) The union has let us have a lot of leeway thank goodness. The > table was one of the more pricey items...but the biggest thing that > was necessary!!! > > M > > >Hmmmm..... > > > >It sounds like some crazy mafia scheme imposed by Tony Soprano himself ;-) > > > >what if we don't use any powerplugs at all? One of my friend had a > >booth at that same conference center and he just brought laptops and > >didn't use anything that needed to be "hauled" (the union has to do > >that). We can all bring laptops and charge them anywhere. 1200 bucks > >is too much to pay for a non profit organisation like us. > > > >cheers Eelke > > > > > > > > > >On 10/10/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > >> Hi Michelle, > >> > >> ouch, 1200 dollars... > >> > >> I have another idea: > >> > >> Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth and > >> explain why > >> > >> And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a > >> simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving you > >> 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of > >> course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of > >> it back. > >> > >> Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more > >> > >> /Thomas > >> > >> > >> > >> 10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >> > >> > Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on > >> > the blog -- great idea. > >> > > >> > To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 > >> > (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my > >> > misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than > >> > $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. > >> > > >> > Now to talk to the electrician union... > >> > > >> > Michelle > >> > > >> >> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it > >> >> would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. > >> >> > >> >> I can put a bit towards the show too. > >> >> > >> >> Barrie > >> >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" > >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >> >> > >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM > >> >> Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths > >> >> > >> >>> Hi all, > >> >>> > >> >>> Ok some really bad news... > >> >>> > >> >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as > >> >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to > >> >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up > >> >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole > >> >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, > >> >>> etc). Wow. > >> >>> > >> >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two > >> >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our > >> >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes > >> >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. > >> >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that > >> >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have > >> >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not > >> >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up > >> >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can > >> >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. > > > >>> > >> >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm > >> >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll > >> >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out > >> >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for > >> >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas > >> >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact > >> >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask > >> >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at > >> >>> this point). > >> >>> > >> >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... > >> >>> > >> >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the > >> >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both > >> >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square > >> >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a > >> >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. > >> >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a > >> >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning > >> >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none > >> >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the > >> >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And > >> >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, > >> >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going > >> >>> to be tacked on. > >> >>> > >> >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we > >> >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games > >> >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until > >> >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time > >> >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if > >> >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. > >> >>> > >> >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant > >> >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer > >> >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for > >> >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style > >> >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact > >> >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked > >> >>> to get these until I put it into excel. > >> >>> > >> >>> So thoughts? Ideas? > >> >>> > >> >>> Michelle > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> games_access mailing list > >> >>> games_access at igda.org > >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> games_access mailing list > >> >> games_access at igda.org > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > games_access mailing list > >> > games_access at igda.org > >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > > > > > >-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > >Department of CS&E/171 > >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Oct 11 04:27:14 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:27:14 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: <836db6300710110103n515a6e4ew98d08b1156ef6204@mail.gmail.com> References: <003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> <003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <022701c80b5f$e2293850$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <836db6300710101730o67cf9912n32592483eebb2fb5@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300710110103n515a6e4ew98d08b1156ef6204@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Eelke -- do you arrive Wednesday before 6 or after (I'm too lazy and tired to look and I still have to approve the flier and write a letter for a grant before I sleep...then...I teach. pffft. A celebration dinner at E for all is needed! And Richard and Barrie? We owe you some dinner too! :) Yeah...all the money is on my credit card. I'm working on a few places that might be able to cut our costs like I said earlier...I mean who knew how much went into this? I surely didn't. I even had to buy liability insurance ($125...cheaper than the chairs...). The electrical union and the electrical supply people were really nice and cut us a break -- they aren't charging us for the installation at all and our power demands are low so that was great! I just got back from Kinko Copy Center at 3am -- I'd been there since 11pm! I had so much to fax it was insane. But I think the booth will end up looking pretty nice -- not AMAZING but the stuff we have with us is the amazing stuff anyway. I will ask again about Thomas' idea of booth donations but what I see in the 2 inch thick handbook is that it's a nono...but it doesn't hurt to pitch it again to see what happens now that I know who the decision makers are! But the press machine is going and we now have the e for all press people sending out the final info on our booth and then I did as well the other day with my contacts. Since I have 6 students with me, they can also help pass around booth fliers to other parts of the expo area. After E for All, we can then assess whether or not we should start the fund raising for a GDC booth or not. I think we can do it since we have a few months. And now I know how to work the media, write up union contracts and so forth. We just have to think about who we talk to for money and whether or not this was a good thing. Of course E for All and the GDC expo are two entirely different things -- E for All is for consumers and GDC is for developers so maybe we have to do both anyway and then compare the experiences. To make things worse...I will be sick next week. I know that for a fact. I have medicine for it but I may need to be propped up here and there. ;) At least there are a lot of us so that makes me feel much better. Michelle >Hey michele! > >I just did my workout! so I'd be glad to help you carry stuff! >Did you pay the $1200 yourself???? that's crazy. >we should all chip in for those costs. > >cheers eelke > >On 10/10/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> The $1200 is just not the power -- that's way cheaper than I though. >> it's the carpet requirement, etc and all the other little details >> that add up to $1200. I had twenty forms to fill out and price them >> down. I'll explain more tomorrow when I'm not faxing forms like >> crazy. If I could even get half of the money I'd be happy....well, >> happier ;) >> >> Keep in mind...they gave us huge discounts because we are non >> profit...I can't even imagine people how much, say, Microsoft is >> paying... >> >> Also, the stuff we haul...we get to be allowed to haul what ONE >> PERSON can CARRY TO THE BOOTH each day...and Eelke...We have giant >> wheeled suitcases shoulder bags and more and you are a tall tall guy. >> :) The union has let us have a lot of leeway thank goodness. The >> table was one of the more pricey items...but the biggest thing that >> was necessary!!! >> >> M >> >> >Hmmmm..... >> > >> >It sounds like some crazy mafia scheme imposed by Tony Soprano himself ;-) >> > >> >what if we don't use any powerplugs at all? One of my friend had a >> >booth at that same conference center and he just brought laptops and >> >didn't use anything that needed to be "hauled" (the union has to do >> >that). We can all bring laptops and charge them anywhere. 1200 bucks >> >is too much to pay for a non profit organisation like us. >> > >> >cheers Eelke >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On 10/10/07, Thomas Westin wrote: > > >> Hi Michelle, >> >> >> >> ouch, 1200 dollars... >> >> >> >> I have another idea: >> >> >> >> Why don't ask for donations in the booth? Put a note in the booth and >> >> explain why >> >> >> >> And / or charge 10 USD for the SIG CD in the booth? Each CD with a >> >> simple cover and label cost perhaps 1 USD in direct costs, giving you >> >> 9 USD back. People could also pay more for it if they wish of >> >> course. I think a 100 CDs is reasonable to sell, giving you most of >> >> it back. >> >> >> >> Or give the CD as a bonus to those who donate 10 USD or more >> >> >> >> /Thomas >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 10 okt 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev d. michelle hinn: >> >> >> >> > Yep -- we should definitely put a link to that on the wiki and on >> >> > the blog -- great idea. >> >> > >> >> > To give you all an idea of how much cost we are at...it's $1200 >> >> > (they gave us half off for the cause and the miscommunication/my >> >> > misunderstanding of how these things work...so that's better than >> >> > $1200. This is coming out of my pocket. >> >> > >> >> > Now to talk to the electrician union... >> >> > >> >> > Michelle >> >> > >> >> >> Are we okay to get a PayPal donate button for funds? If so - it >> >> >> would be good to get this on the blog and main web-page pdq. >> >> >> >> >> >> I can put a bit towards the show too. >> >> >> >> >> >> Barrie >> >> >> www.OneSwitch.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >> >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:26 PM >> >> >> Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hi all, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Ok some really bad news... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >> >> >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >> >> >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >> >> >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >> >> >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >> >> >>> etc). Wow. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >> >> >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >> >> >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >> >> >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >> >> >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >> >> >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >> >> >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >> >> >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >> >> >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >> >> >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >> > > >>> >> >> >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >> >> >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >> >> >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >> >> >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >> >> >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >> >> >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >> >> >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >> >> >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >> >> >>> this point). >> >> >>> >> >> >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >> >> >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >> >> >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >> >> >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >> >> >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >> >> >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >> >> >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning > > >> >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >> >> >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >> >> >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >> >> >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >> >> >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >> >> >>> to be tacked on. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >> >> >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >> >> >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >> >> >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >> >> >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >> >> >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >> >> >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >> >> >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >> >> >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >> >> >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >> >> >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >> >> >>> to get these until I put it into excel. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> So thoughts? Ideas? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Michelle >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> games_access mailing list >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > games_access mailing list >> >> > games_access at igda.org >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> games_access mailing list >> >> games_access at igda.org >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> > >> > >> >-- >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> >Department of CS&E/171 >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Oct 11 06:57:40 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:57:40 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Message-ID: <32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> OK, for GDC it's time to find out how dedicated the industry is As we have some great examples to show from the big league, I think it should be possible to get sponsoring from example: - Valve: HL2 [CC] features + Eelke's one button mod - Id software with Doom 3 [CC] and AudioQuake - GarageGames with [CC] - Adobe with games/tools made with Director: Terraformers and Audio Game Maker - others, please continue... If we put them on display in the GDC booth it will be really good for them and they should see the value of it (for E for all time is against us to hope for sponsors, so I don't think it's worth to ask for that) /Thomas 10 okt 2007 kl. 18.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: > Hi all, > > Ok some really bad news... > > I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as E > for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to > play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up to > a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole > exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, > etc). Wow. > > Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two > unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our > booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes > more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. > Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that the > unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have a > number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not everyone > will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up will occur > later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can be done > quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. > > If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm > about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll > obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out > credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for > post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas for > last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact details > and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask disability > organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at this point). > > More bad news...the GDC booth... > > There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the > cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both > shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square foot > booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a > significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. > Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a few > hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning > revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none > of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the bulk > of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And I'm ok > with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, drapes > for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going to be > tacked on. > > Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we > didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games one > now but that won't get the people that don't show up until > Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time > to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if we > can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. > > Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant boost > and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer attention > (all are important in spreading the word). For E for All I have > (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style emails to > raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact list is that > big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked to get these > until I put it into excel. > > So thoughts? Ideas? > > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Oct 11 13:03:29 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:03:29 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: <32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje>< 017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><0013 01c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Dellet je><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959A B8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch> <32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Yes I agree -- or at least find out how willing to be dedicated and learn more about accessibility through supporting our work. Looking at the list...we can throw Garage right out the window. They have failed to respond to any emails or calls about Eelke's work (with Reid helping test) on Torque[cc]. I don't know what happened and I'm 99% sure it's not something we did wrong. It's a strong lesson for us on dedication from the industry, although they sure made it seem like they were on board because they contacted us first. It's a shame...nothing more or less to say about that. I think we also could ask Nintendo, as Eitan has been leading the effort on AudiOdyssey and this could get some more support from Nintendo and Nintendo 3rd party studios after E for All. We can also go the "brain age" route and tell them why things like this are so important for cognitive abilities. We could also ask Microsoft and Sony -- I doubt that they would help sponsor given their track record to date but, hey, it doesn't hurt to ask. I/we just need to figure out who the best people to ask are and my contacts plus former colleagues have not been able to help. Organizations for, say, the blind might also be able to provide some monetary support (not as much as a game company but every bit counts, every bit adds up). And we need to start writing the SIG into grants when it makes sense. And, yeah, E for All...that's going to be whatever money we can beg for after the fact. I wish I was a billionaire (don't we all?) and that this would be pocket change for me...but it's not. And we're too close to do something like cancel because (1) I signed a binding agreement that will charge me for the booth if we don't show or decide not to show at this late date that is MORE than what I have already had to cover and (2) too many people will get hotel penalties (the travel group for this conference charges you a day if you cancel now) and airline penalties. So anything we can get now would be great but it's mostly a done deal. So...we have to start learning about how to raise funds. I think we can do it if we all do what we can to help. The days of as many GDC passes as we want are over. The days of not needing to raise money are over. And I need to set us up (and find out the IGDA rules for this) as a charitable non-profit in the US (which is where the IGDA is set up, although they aren't a charitable non-profit -- boy have I been learning a lot) so that we can get our Tax ID and a bank account that will help cover things like this and maybe even travel for those of us who do important work for the SIG and for game accessibility in general but cannot afford to attend conferences. Ah...growing pains. :) Michelle >OK, for GDC it's time to find out how dedicated the industry is > >As we have some great examples to show from the big league, I think >it should be possible to get sponsoring from example: > >- Valve: HL2 [CC] features + Eelke's one button mod >- Id software with Doom 3 [CC] and AudioQuake >- GarageGames with [CC] >- Adobe with games/tools made with Director: Terraformers and Audio Game Maker >- others, please continue... > >If we put them on display in the GDC booth it will be really good >for them and they should see the value of it > >(for E for all time is against us to hope for sponsors, so I don't >think it's worth to ask for that) > >/Thomas > > >10 okt 2007 kl. 18.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >>Hi all, >> >>Ok some really bad news... >> >>I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as E >>for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up to >>a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>etc). Wow. >> >>Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that the >>unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have a >>number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not everyone >>will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up will occur >>later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can be done >>quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >> >>If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas for >>last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact details >>and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask disability >>organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at this point). >> >>More bad news...the GDC booth... >> >>There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square foot >>booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a few >>hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the bulk >>of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And I'm ok >>with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, drapes >>for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going to be >>tacked on. >> >>Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games one >>now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if we >>can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >> >>Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant boost >>and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer attention >>(all are important in spreading the word). For E for All I have >>(believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style emails to >>raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact list is that >>big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked to get these >>until I put it into excel. >> >>So thoughts? Ideas? >> >>Michelle >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Oct 12 03:03:36 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:03:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Yes about GarageGames I had my doubts from the start, given my previous support experiences with them (I spent summer 2004 to test Torque, but since documentation sucked I asked for improvements or help but the reply I got was just marvaleous: they were working on their own games and didn't have time to do that. I mentioned this for Reid too, just as a warning. Seems GG don't take their Torque engine clients very seriously. And this CC thing just confirms that. Yes, Nintendo and AudiOddessey, for sure. Nintendo is already doing what we are talking about, with innovative interfaces so that's a strong partner. I don't have contacts with them though, perhaps Eitan has? For E for all; in case we don't get donations or help from anywhere else, you can count me in on sharing the cost as Eelke proposed, I just hope as many as possible in the SIG are able to that as well. The share must not necessarily be equal counted in dollars; each and everyone can contribute with what they feel is doable for them. What do you think? Kind regards Thomas 11 okt 2007 kl. 19.03 skrev d. michelle hinn: > Yes I agree -- or at least find out how willing to be dedicated and > learn more about accessibility through supporting our work. > > Looking at the list...we can throw Garage right out the window. > They have failed to respond to any emails or calls about Eelke's > work (with Reid helping test) on Torque[cc]. I don't know what > happened and I'm 99% sure it's not something we did wrong. It's a > strong lesson for us on dedication from the industry, although they > sure made it seem like they were on board because they contacted us > first. It's a shame...nothing more or less to say about that. > > I think we also could ask Nintendo, as Eitan has been leading the > effort on AudiOdyssey and this could get some more support from > Nintendo and Nintendo 3rd party studios after E for All. We can > also go the "brain age" route and tell them why things like this > are so important for cognitive abilities. > > We could also ask Microsoft and Sony -- I doubt that they would > help sponsor given their track record to date but, hey, it doesn't > hurt to ask. I/we just need to figure out who the best people to > ask are and my contacts plus former colleagues have not been able > to help. Organizations for, say, the blind might also be able to > provide some monetary support (not as much as a game company but > every bit counts, every bit adds up). And we need to start writing > the SIG into grants when it makes sense. > > And, yeah, E for All...that's going to be whatever money we can beg > for after the fact. I wish I was a billionaire (don't we all?) and > that this would be pocket change for me...but it's not. And we're > too close to do something like cancel because (1) I signed a > binding agreement that will charge me for the booth if we don't > show or decide not to show at this late date that is MORE than what > I have already had to cover and (2) too many people will get hotel > penalties (the travel group for this conference charges you a day > if you cancel now) and airline penalties. So anything we can get > now would be great but it's mostly a done deal. > > So...we have to start learning about how to raise funds. I think we > can do it if we all do what we can to help. The days of as many GDC > passes as we want are over. The days of not needing to raise money > are over. And I need to set us up (and find out the IGDA rules for > this) as a charitable non-profit in the US (which is where the IGDA > is set up, although they aren't a charitable non-profit -- boy have > I been learning a lot) so that we can get our Tax ID and a bank > account that will help cover things like this and maybe even travel > for those of us who do important work for the SIG and for game > accessibility in general but cannot afford to attend conferences. > > Ah...growing pains. :) > > Michelle > >> OK, for GDC it's time to find out how dedicated the industry is >> >> As we have some great examples to show from the big league, I >> think it should be possible to get sponsoring from example: >> >> - Valve: HL2 [CC] features + Eelke's one button mod >> - Id software with Doom 3 [CC] and AudioQuake >> - GarageGames with [CC] >> - Adobe with games/tools made with Director: Terraformers and >> Audio Game Maker >> - others, please continue... >> >> If we put them on display in the GDC booth it will be really good >> for them and they should see the value of it >> >> (for E for all time is against us to hope for sponsors, so I don't >> think it's worth to ask for that) >> >> /Thomas >> >> >> 10 okt 2007 kl. 18.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Ok some really bad news... >>> >>> I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >>> E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>> play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >>> to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>> exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>> etc). Wow. >>> >>> Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>> unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>> booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>> more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>> Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >>> the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >>> a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >>> everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >>> will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >>> be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >>> >>> If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>> about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>> obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>> credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>> post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >>> for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >>> details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >>> disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >>> this point). >>> >>> More bad news...the GDC booth... >>> >>> There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>> cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>> shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >>> foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>> significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>> Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >>> few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>> revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>> of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >>> bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >>> I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >>> drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >>> to be tacked on. >>> >>> Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>> didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >>> one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>> Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>> to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >>> we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >>> >>> Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >>> boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >>> attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >>> All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >>> emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >>> list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >>> to get these until I put it into excel. >>> >>> So thoughts? Ideas? >>> >>> Michelle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 12:15:24 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:15:24 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All and GDC booths - Money issues In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje>< 017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><0013 01c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Dellet je><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959A B8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f 600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><32390029-31 57-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: That's interesting to know about GarageGames -- and a shame. Sounds like they are a company that isn't even committed to devs in general. I hope that there's a way to advertise and promote using the [cc] tool for the engine that we can do that gets this out to devs who want to use it despite Garage not including it into their engine - if that's possible. I know we had gone into this thinking that our solutions would be put into future versions of the Torque Engine. Seems like that is not going to happen! Just as a reminder: I'd like to encourage anyone that has any history with or concerns with a company's commitment to please feel free to speak up. I don't always know the history of every company we try to work with. Eelke might have created his [cc] work for them regardless but I'm sure if there was more information about their history he might have put the energy into another project. The only experience I had with them was with the DonationCoder.com contest where they were very generous with donating their tools for a contest for accessible games and prior to GDC (and at GDC) seemed to be totally on board with the accessibility message. So I had no basis for concern going into a partnership with them. So even if it's in person or off-list that you feel more comfortable raising concern, please do. We have limited resources and I feel very bad that Eelke and Reid spent the time that they did on this. Of course perhaps what they learned will be able to be applied to another company's product -- things aren't always completely moot. But now we have to shop it around a bit. Certainly a red flag with them was when the promised licenses for the Engine never came through, followed by the complete silence on their end even when we had demos to show them. By then it was too late. So lessons learned...we always have lessons to be learned, eh? :) I can tell you this for sure -- I have been SCHOOLED in how expos and conventions work. I thought we would just be worrying about what to bring and what to write in fliers (if ANYONE has ideas here, please speak up -- I'm writing something now for Richard and I can go as late as Monday to get this to the printer with a penalty for a rush job. Richard, however, might not have that time. I hope he does but obviously everyone has lives that they put on hold or delay for things like SIG emergencies. I collapsed asleep at 10pm last night -- my body just said ENOUGH! So Richard -- we all appreciate the time you can put into the flier design and if you don't have the time, please send me the files (not sure if you did the template in photoshop or not) so I can edit them. I do have some Nintendo contacts and what Eitan and I are both hoping to do is meet with some reps (not just booth babes -- btw, I actually have an order form for booth babes in my E for All kit -- they are EXPENSIVE) at E for All. So E for All will be a show where we not only show off our stuff but try and make as many contacts as possible for future sponsors. As for personal donations -- Barrie and Mark were both setting up donation opportunities for the SIG website and on their own websites. The SIG website is probably going to get more dev attention while OneSwitch and AbleGamers will probably get more consumer attention. I really, really want to thank both of them for doing this (and an aside -- Mark is new to our SIG but he's really helped us out. Please welcome him (if you haven't already) with open arms -- all of us are VITAL to the cause. I know most of us have gotten to know Barrie more because he's been with us for a long time but take some time and get to know Mark as well. Both of them have literally saved my butt during this whole E for All prep). So ANY amount of donation is appreciated. Seriously. Anything would be great. Barrie and Mark will be giving me their info on how to paypal, etc donations. This hasn't put me into financial crisis but it did take two month's paychecks to cover it (thank goodness for credit cards and savings accounts and a boyfriend who makes a lot more money than I do who can cover the rent and utilities!). So it would be nice to even get a part of the money back somehow. I worked a lot of deals and did get half off of a lot of things (that number would have been a lot higher if I hadn't). I am amazed at the generosity of the vendors -- I admit...I was jaded going in. But we actually got some labor costs waived and got some of the stuff at cost versus mark up. I can provide this (once I'm done) to anyone who asks -- I'd rather not post it on the wiki because I think that has the potential to get E for All and their vendors in trouble if others see the discounts we've received). If we find ourselves with a lot more money in donations than we need to cover the debt, this will be applied to the GDC expo. I'm working up a budget breakdown now for anyone that's interested in the hidden costs of a consumer show or an expo (I know a few of you have asked so that you can bring this to your companies, etc). I will try to advertise anything that comes through before the show but if that doesn't happen then we can always add a "supporters of the SIG include..." at the GDC Expo Booth and/or talks. Ok...I'll stop rambling now. :D Michelle >Yes about GarageGames I had my doubts from the start, given my >previous support experiences with them (I spent summer 2004 to test >Torque, but since documentation sucked I asked for improvements or >help but the reply I got was just marvaleous: they were working on >their own games and didn't have time to do that. I mentioned this >for Reid too, just as a warning. Seems GG don't take their Torque >engine clients very seriously. And this CC thing just confirms that. > >Yes, Nintendo and AudiOddessey, for sure. Nintendo is already doing >what we are talking about, with innovative interfaces so that's a >strong partner. I don't have contacts with them though, perhaps >Eitan has? > >For E for all; in case we don't get donations or help from anywhere >else, you can count me in on sharing the cost as Eelke proposed, I >just hope as many as possible in the SIG are able to that as well. >The share must not necessarily be equal counted in dollars; each and >everyone can contribute with what they feel is doable for them. What >do you think? > >Kind regards >Thomas > > > >11 okt 2007 kl. 19.03 skrev d. michelle hinn: > >>Yes I agree -- or at least find out how willing to be dedicated and >>learn more about accessibility through supporting our work. >> >>Looking at the list...we can throw Garage right out the window. >>They have failed to respond to any emails or calls about Eelke's >>work (with Reid helping test) on Torque[cc]. I don't know what >>happened and I'm 99% sure it's not something we did wrong. It's a >>strong lesson for us on dedication from the industry, although they >>sure made it seem like they were on board because they contacted us >>first. It's a shame...nothing more or less to say about that. >> >>I think we also could ask Nintendo, as Eitan has been leading the >>effort on AudiOdyssey and this could get some more support from >>Nintendo and Nintendo 3rd party studios after E for All. We can >>also go the "brain age" route and tell them why things like this >>are so important for cognitive abilities. >> >>We could also ask Microsoft and Sony -- I doubt that they would >>help sponsor given their track record to date but, hey, it doesn't >>hurt to ask. I/we just need to figure out who the best people to >>ask are and my contacts plus former colleagues have not been able >>to help. Organizations for, say, the blind might also be able to >>provide some monetary support (not as much as a game company but >>every bit counts, every bit adds up). And we need to start writing >>the SIG into grants when it makes sense. >> >>And, yeah, E for All...that's going to be whatever money we can beg >>for after the fact. I wish I was a billionaire (don't we all?) and >>that this would be pocket change for me...but it's not. And we're >>too close to do something like cancel because (1) I signed a >>binding agreement that will charge me for the booth if we don't >>show or decide not to show at this late date that is MORE than what >>I have already had to cover and (2) too many people will get hotel >>penalties (the travel group for this conference charges you a day >>if you cancel now) and airline penalties. So anything we can get >>now would be great but it's mostly a done deal. >> >>So...we have to start learning about how to raise funds. I think we >>can do it if we all do what we can to help. The days of as many GDC >>passes as we want are over. The days of not needing to raise money >>are over. And I need to set us up (and find out the IGDA rules for >>this) as a charitable non-profit in the US (which is where the IGDA >>is set up, although they aren't a charitable non-profit -- boy have >>I been learning a lot) so that we can get our Tax ID and a bank >>account that will help cover things like this and maybe even travel >>for those of us who do important work for the SIG and for game >>accessibility in general but cannot afford to attend conferences. >> >>Ah...growing pains. :) >> >>Michelle >> >>>OK, for GDC it's time to find out how dedicated the industry is >>> >>>As we have some great examples to show from the big league, I >>>think it should be possible to get sponsoring from example: >>> >>>- Valve: HL2 [CC] features + Eelke's one button mod >>>- Id software with Doom 3 [CC] and AudioQuake >>>- GarageGames with [CC] >>>- Adobe with games/tools made with Director: Terraformers and >>>Audio Game Maker >>>- others, please continue... >>> >>>If we put them on display in the GDC booth it will be really good >>>for them and they should see the value of it >>> >>>(for E for all time is against us to hope for sponsors, so I don't >>>think it's worth to ask for that) >>> >>>/Thomas >>> >>> >>>10 okt 2007 kl. 18.26 skrev d. michelle hinn: >>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>Ok some really bad news... >>>> >>>>I admit I have NEVER but together a booth for an expo as large as >>>>E for All. Because I'm not a marketing person (although I tend to >>>>play one with the SIG) I have just learned that I have to pay up >>>>to a thousand dollars for carpet, tables, electricity (that whole >>>>exact number of things that need to be plugged in, union money, >>>>etc). Wow. >>>> >>>>Yeah. Crap. Nice thing to learn with a week to go. There are two >>>>unions that a required to (1) put the carpet, tables etc in our >>>>booth and (2) actually set up and plug in our stuff IF it takes >>>>more than one person 30 minutes to set up the whole booth. >>>>Yeah...and I heard from a friend who used to exhibit at E3 that >>>>the unions will watch people like hawks.. I realize that we have >>>>a number of people showing up at staggered times (ie, not >>>>everyone will be there on the Wednesday we set up and some set up >>>>will occur later). I'm hoping that late set up of some things can >>>>be done quickly and less intrusively so we don't occur more cost. >>>> >>>>If anyone going to the show can help out with the cost (and I'm >>>>about to learn the total damage), please, please do so. I'll >>>>obviously just need to eat the cost (thank you nearly maxed out >>>>credit card) at this point but any/all donations and/or ideas for >>>>post-show sponsorship is GREATLY appreciated. If you have ideas >>>>for last minute fund raising...please let me know with exact >>>>details and contact info (please don't just tell me to ask >>>>disability organizations -- exact contact info is what I need at >>>>this point). >>>> >>>>More bad news...the GDC booth... >>>> >>>>There was some major miscommunication -- IGDA is NOT covering the >>>>cost of the booth (they will cover the cost of fliers for both >>>>shows) and I'm waiting to find out the total for a 100 square >>>>foot booth (same size as E for All) -- CMP is going to give us a >>>>significant discount but I just don't know what this entails. >>>>Because we are finding this out now, we have time to beg for a >>>>few hundred here and there (for any tech we show that is earning >>>>revenue, as much as possible is appreciated). I realize that none >>>>of us are making big money if we are making any money. So the >>>>bulk of the fund raising is going to have to come elsewhere. And >>>>I'm ok with that. But the same weird rules for E for All (carpet, >>>>drapes for the tables, the cost of the tables, etc is also going >>>>to be tacked on. >>>> >>>>Yes...I found this out AFTER the GDC proposal deadline and we >>>>didn't have a main GDC arcade (we're trying for an indie games >>>>one now but that won't get the people that don't show up until >>>>Wednesday. I really want this booth to work out. And we have time >>>>to raise some cash because we have a few months to do so. So if >>>>we can come close to cost, that will be better than nothing. >>>> >>>>Welcome to the big leagues. Sure, the booth is a significant >>>>boost and we can get more press attention and dev and gamer >>>>attention (all are important in spreading the word). For E for >>>>All I have (believe it or not) sent over 700 press release style >>>>emails to raise press awareness) -- can you believe my contact >>>>list is that big now??? I didn't realize how hard I have worked >>>>to get these until I put it into excel. >>>> >>>>So thoughts? Ideas? >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Oct 12 16:24:03 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:24:03 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer - Now With Text References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <00ff01c80d0d$d4e3e460$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi Guys, Checkout http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0007.jpg . Changes: - bigger font for "because everyone wants to save the universe" >>> I printed it and had it read to people in my surroundings and had no problems with it... still prefer to keep this line because I think it is stronger/more witty than "games for all" - but still open for discussion... - added text! Comments please :) Ries From richard at audiogames.net Fri Oct 12 16:49:36 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <012801c80d11$66e3cf30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hee, Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little bit. See latest versions here: http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... Greets, Richard From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 17:06:17 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:06:17 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All Flier Message-ID: >From: "AudioGames.net" >To: >Subject: flyer >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:54:41 +0200 > >Hi, > >See attachments. Emails don't seem to reach the mailinglist? Here's >a 4 on a page version: > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg > >Greets, > >Richard > >------ >Hi Guys, > >Checkout http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0007.jpg . Changes: > >- bigger font for "because everyone wants to save the universe" >>> >I printed it and had it read to people in my surroundings and had no >problems with it... still prefer to keep this line because I think >it is stronger/more witty than "games for all" - but still open for >discussion... >- added text! > >Comments please :) > >Ries > >From: "AudioGames.net" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >References: ><004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0 at Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0 at Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F at NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309 at pininteractive.com> > >Subject: E For All Flyer Update >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=response >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > >Hee, > >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a >little bit. See latest versions here: > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) > >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > >Greets, > >Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 17:13:07 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:13:07 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All Flier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <836db6300710121413l4aac9f41n1bec51a33bfc644e@mail.gmail.com> Looking pretty neat!!! good work Richard! cheers Eelke On 10/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: > Subject: flyer > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:54:41 +0200 > > Hi, > > See attachments. Emails don't seem to reach the mailinglist? Here's a 4 on a > page version: > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg > > Greets, > > Richard > > ------ > > > > > Hi Guys, > > Checkout > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0007.jpg > . Changes: > > - bigger font for "because everyone wants to save the universe" >>> I > printed it and had it read to people in my surroundings and had no problems > with it... still prefer to keep this line because I think it is > stronger/more witty than "games for all" - but still open for discussion... > - added text! > > Comments please :) > > Ries > > From: "AudioGames.net" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > References: > <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0 at Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0 at Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F at NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309 at pininteractive.com> > > Subject: E For All Flyer Update > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=response > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > > Hee, > > Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little > bit. See latest versions here: > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg > (2 on page) > > Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > > Greets, > > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ioo at ablegamers.com Fri Oct 12 17:14:53 2007 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Ioo) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:14:53 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <012801c80d11$66e3cf30$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0@Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0@Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0@oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0@Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0@Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0@Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0@Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F@NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0@oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309@pininteractive.com> <012801c80d11$66e3cf30$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <470FE3CD.5060209@ablegamers.com> WOW! That looks great! AudioGames.net wrote: > Hee, > > Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a > little bit. See latest versions here: > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) > > Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > > Greets, > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 17:17:26 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:17:26 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All Flier In-Reply-To: <836db6300710121413l4aac9f41n1bec51a33bfc644e@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300710121413l4aac9f41n1bec51a33bfc644e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710121417j6c3bf56dm1fe97d6a7e35cc70@mail.gmail.com> Some minor suggestions: Between 10% and 20% of our population cannot play computer games because of a disability. ? cheers Eelke On 10/12/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Looking pretty neat!!! good work Richard! > > cheers Eelke > > > On 10/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > > > > > > From: "AudioGames.net" > > To: > > Subject: flyer > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:54:41 +0200 > > > > Hi, > > > > See attachments. Emails don't seem to reach the mailinglist? Here's a 4 on a > > page version: > > > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg > > > > Greets, > > > > Richard > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Checkout > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0007.jpg > > . Changes: > > > > - bigger font for "because everyone wants to save the universe" >>> I > > printed it and had it read to people in my surroundings and had no problems > > with it... still prefer to keep this line because I think it is > > stronger/more witty than "games for all" - but still open for discussion... > > - added text! > > > > Comments please :) > > > > Ries > > > > From: "AudioGames.net" > > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > References: > > <004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0 at Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0 at Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F at NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309 at pininteractive.com> > > > > Subject: E For All Flyer Update > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > format=flowed; > > reply-type=response > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > > > > Hee, > > > > Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little > > bit. See latest versions here: > > > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg > > (2 on page) > > > > Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > > > > Greets, > > > > Richard > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 17:18:12 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:18:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update Message-ID: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> I can't open these at all: http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is under 50 mg? One thing to change: http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i prefer the world wording ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >From: "AudioGames.net" >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >Hee, > >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >bit. See latest versions here: > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) > >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > >Greets, > >Richard > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 17:21:18 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:21:18 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E for All Flier In-Reply-To: <836db6300710121417j6c3bf56dm1fe97d6a7e35cc70@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300710121413l4aac9f41n1bec51a33bfc644e@mail.gmail.com> <836db6300710121417j6c3bf56dm1fe97d6a7e35cc70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Or do we mean "the world population (on average)" or "the United States population"? I agree that the wording needs tweaking. But it's looking great -- I agree! Thanks Richard for your help!!! Michelle >Some minor suggestions: > >Between 10% and 20% of our population cannot play computer games >because of a disability. > >? > >cheers Eelke > > > > >On 10/12/07, Eelke Folmer wrote: >> Looking pretty neat!!! good work Richard! >> >> cheers Eelke >> >> >> On 10/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: "AudioGames.net" >> > To: >> > Subject: flyer >> > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:54:41 +0200 >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > See attachments. Emails don't seem to reach the mailinglist? >>Here's a 4 on a >> > page version: >> > >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >> > >> > Greets, >> > >> > Richard >> > >> > ------ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi Guys, >> > >> > Checkout >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0007.jpg >> > . Changes: >> > >> > - bigger font for "because everyone wants to save the universe" >>> I >> > printed it and had it read to people in my surroundings and had >>no problems >> > with it... still prefer to keep this line because I think it is >> > stronger/more witty than "games for all" - but still open for >>discussion... >> > - added text! >> > >> > Comments please :) >> > >> > Ries >> > >> > From: "AudioGames.net" >> > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> > References: >> > >><004a01c809df$ece55a70$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001201c809ef$8b82d4a0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003b01c80aa5$c2a7af30$6402a8c0 at Delletje><017a01c80aa9$485ca100$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><001701c80ab6$6b201750$6402a8c0 at Delletje><001301c80ab7$1b337830$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003201c80ab8$8b5801c0$6402a8c0 at Delletje><003c01c80ab8$bc6cb440$6402a8c0 at Delletje><50208B88C11B2B4D99192C522959AB8B169F18B60F at NA-EXMSG-C113.redmond.corp.microsoft.com><009801c80b14$0c41f600$0202a8c0 at oneswitch><32390029-3157-4648-A517-F7D19F53C309 at pininteractive.com> >> > >> > Subject: E For All Flyer Update >> > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >> > MIME-Version: 1.0 >> > Content-Type: text/plain; >> > format=flowed; >> > reply-type=response >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> > X-Priority: 3 >> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 >> > >> > Hee, >> > >> > Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >> > bit. See latest versions here: >> > >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >> > (2 on page) >> > >> > Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >> > >> > Greets, >> > >> > Richard >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >> Department of CS&E/171 >> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 17:23:53 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:23:53 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: oops -- I mean to send this just to Richard -- Richard please don't attach a 50mg file to the list...not that it would let you without bouncing. ;) >I can't open these at all: > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg > >How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is >under 50 mg? > >One thing to change: > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > >"in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >prefer the world wording > >---- Original message ---- >>Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>From: "AudioGames.net" >>Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >>Hee, >> >>Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>bit. See latest versions here: >> >>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >> >>Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >> >>Greets, >> >>Richard >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >....................................... >these are mediocre times and people are >losing hope. it's hard for many people >to believe that there are extraordinary >things inside themselves, as well as >others. i hope you can keep an open >mind. > -- "unbreakable" >....................................... >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 17:24:45 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:24:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Also -- opinions about size of the flier? 1/2 a 8.5 x 11 inch paper or 1/4? From reid at rbkdesign.com Fri Oct 12 17:27:47 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:27:47 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going to give us any respect. I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm sure Richard did the research. On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > I can't open these at all: > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg > > How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is under 50 mg? > > One thing to change: > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > > "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i prefer the world wording > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 > >From: "AudioGames.net" > >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > > >Hee, > > > >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little > >bit. See latest versions here: > > > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) > > > >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > > > >Greets, > > > >Richard > > > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From richard at audiogames.net Fri Oct 12 18:04:11 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:04:11 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <004e01c80d1b$d1dcdd90$6402a8c0@Delletje> I would go for 2 on a page... ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > Also -- opinions about size of the flier? 1/2 a 8.5 x 11 inch paper or > 1/4? > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 18:33:56 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:33:56 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <004e01c80d1b$d1dcdd90$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <004e01c80d1b$d1dcdd90$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: As you are the designer, I'll go with your suggestion. :) >I would go for 2 on a page... > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:24 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > >>Also -- opinions about size of the flier? 1/2 a 8.5 x 11 inch paper or 1/4? >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Oct 12 18:52:56 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:52:56 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <006301c80d22$a18f2060$6402a8c0@Delletje> Well, I literally copied that sentence from the FuturePlay poster (http://www.game-accessibility.com/pics/artwork/futureplayposter.pdf)... and I think it was based on the calcs of the SIG (but from some time ago), not my personal calcs... any alternative sentence without figures? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to > world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going > to give us any respect. > > I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm > sure Richard did the research. > > On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >> I can't open these at all: >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >> >> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is >> under 50 mg? >> >> One thing to change: >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the world >> population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i prefer the world >> wording >> >> ---- Original message ---- >> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >> >From: "AudioGames.net" >> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> > >> >Hee, >> > >> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >> >bit. See latest versions here: >> > >> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >> > >> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >> > >> >Greets, >> > >> >Richard >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 18:57:08 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:57:08 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it comes to just the United States. With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some brainstorming help ASAP!!! Michelle >Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >to give us any respect. > >I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >sure Richard did the research. > >On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >> I can't open these at all: >> >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >> >> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total >>is under 50 mg? >> >> One thing to change: >> > > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > > >> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>prefer the world wording >> >> ---- Original message ---- >> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >> >From: "AudioGames.net" >> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> > >> >Hee, >> > >> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >> >bit. See latest versions here: >> > >> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >> > >> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >> > >> >Greets, >> > >> >Richard >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Fri Oct 12 19:03:54 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:03:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <007201c80d24$2994a3d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Err.... the jpgs are about 1 Mb... the originals, unlayered about 8 Mb (full page with 2 flyers)... no worries, I NEVER send attachments that large, haven't you noticed in the past?? I always upload to the FTP Hinny-Drive :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > oops -- I mean to send this just to Richard -- Richard please don't attach > a 50mg file to the list...not that it would let you without bouncing. ;) > >>I can't open these at all: >> >>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >> >>How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is under >>50 mg? >> >>One thing to change: >> >>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >>"in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the world >>population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i prefer the world >>wording >> >>---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>From: "AudioGames.net" Subject: [games_access] E >>>For All Flyer Update To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> >>> >>>Hee, >>> >>>Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>>bit. See latest versions here: >>> >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>> >>>Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>> >>>Greets, >>> >>>Richard >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>....................................... >>these are mediocre times and people are >>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>to believe that there are extraordinary >>things inside themselves, as well as >>others. i hope you can keep an open >>mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >>....................................... >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From reid at rbkdesign.com Fri Oct 12 19:14:09 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:14:09 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <004e01c80d1b$d1dcdd90$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Sorry guys, can we please keep the email down on this list? On 10/12/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > As you are the designer, I'll go with your suggestion. :) > > >I would go for 2 on a page... > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" > >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:24 PM > >Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > > > >>Also -- opinions about size of the flier? 1/2 a 8.5 x 11 inch paper or 1/4? > >>_______________________________________________ > >>games_access mailing list > >>games_access at igda.org > >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 12 19:22:20 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:22:20 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <007201c80d24$2994a3d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <007201c80d24$2994a3d0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Lol. Yeah, I'm running on very little sleep so even if I knew in my brain that you wouldn't do that I was unable to access that information due to an overtaxed hard drive. >Err.... the jpgs are about 1 Mb... the originals, unlayered about 8 >Mb (full page with 2 flyers)... no worries, I NEVER send attachments >that large, haven't you noticed in the past?? I always upload to the >FTP Hinny-Drive :) > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:23 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > >>oops -- I mean to send this just to Richard -- Richard please don't >>attach a 50mg file to the list...not that it would let you without >>bouncing. ;) >> >>>I can't open these at all: >>> >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>> >>>How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total >>>is under 50 mg? >>> >>>One thing to change: >>> >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> >>>"in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>>world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>>prefer the world wording >>> >>>---- Original message ---- >>>>Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>From: "AudioGames.net" Subject: >>>>[games_access] E For All Flyer Update To: "IGDA Games >>>>Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>> >>>>Hee, >>>> >>>>Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>>>bit. See latest versions here: >>>> >>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>>> >>>>Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>> >>>>Greets, >>>> >>>>Richard >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>....................................... >>>these are mediocre times and people are >>>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>to believe that there are extraordinary >>>things inside themselves, as well as >>>others. i hope you can keep an open >>>mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>>....................................... >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Oct 13 12:52:41 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:52:41 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Please HELP! E For All Flier In-Reply-To: <006301c80d22$a18f2060$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <006301c80d22$a18f2060$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Ok since we have some controversy (on and off list) over including the percentages on the flier, lets leave the stats off the flier since it something we can't say for sure how we can back up. We have talked about this and run stats before but I'm not finding any formulae we used so let's not risk it given then time. I know we have them but perhaps it's not as important for right now (that and we'd probably need a subscript explanation of how the numbers were arrived at or something like "based on the UN report from 2006...."). Unless someone has even a US estimate with a quick explanation (US census says... - or - according to the latest US census...). I'll work on that so that if it gets left off the flier we have something to say when asked this question (and we will be asked this question). I think 10% is closer to the official estimate but that also is complicated by those who do not claim to have a disability (I know when the census workers came to my apartment -- they do that randomly -- I did not add that I had a disability). A lot of people who have things like dyslexia may not say that they have a disability -- I based my decision on the fact that I do not apply for disability tags for my car, I have no applied for disability benefits, etc, because I know that funds are limited and these are things that I don't need and would feel selfish asking for. The census isn't specific enough when they ask this question and I did talk to the census takers and they didn't have an answer as to what I should put down because that would be leading me. In 2000 I chose not to include myself in their stats -- and I imagine that I'm not alone. Someone with an auditory disability that is not total hearing loss may also make the same choice. And so forth. We were definitely given the booth for our work on game accessibility for gamers with disabilities so I think you are right -- perhaps the "games for all" message is better for the game dev audience than the game consumer audience. We have different battles there -- the rude comments on messages boards by (I hope) uninformed teens telling the disabled to "go away" is one such example. Anyone have any thoughts about what to put there instead that will grab attention? Richard's artwork is so "spot on" and we need some opening text to accompany it. And we need it ASAP! Please help? I need to run thousands of these through the printer as soon as possible. Also -- I have a lot of people like David Perry and others who are attending and speaking at E for All who sent me facebook messages in reply to my invite who are planning to stop by. I hope that they do. So we have some big name devs who might take a few minutes to see what we're up to and hopefully help spread the word. David and his crew already know Robert from his work on the Top Secret project (Robert -- they brought your name up, not me!) and I've met them as well. But this is our chance to really get the chance at a quick one-on-one to see our display -- they are so busy at GDC, etc but this booth allows them to get a quick sense of things. Also, part two -- we have the media. I'm getting a lot of requests for more info and my donation (in addition to the rest of the money for E for All) was a press package by the group that is hammering the press (they gave us a fine discount as well). So please, please, please help us with your ideas for this flier as soon as you get this message! It's a small thing to ask but something that is GREATLY important. Thanks in advance everyone! Michelle >Well, I literally copied that sentence from the FuturePlay poster >(http://www.game-accessibility.com/pics/artwork/futureplayposter.pdf)... >and I think it was based on the calcs of the SIG (but from some time >ago), not my personal calcs... > >any alternative sentence without figures? > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:27 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > >>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>to give us any respect. >> >>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>sure Richard did the research. >> >>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>I can't open these at all: >>> >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>> >>>How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total >>>is under 50 mg? >>> >>>One thing to change: >>> >>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> >>>"in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>>world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>>prefer the world wording >>> >>>---- Original message ---- >>>>Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>> >>>>Hee, >>>> >>>>Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>>>bit. See latest versions here: >>>> >>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>>> >>>>Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>> >>>>Greets, >>>> >>>>Richard >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>....................................... >>>these are mediocre times and people are >>>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>to believe that there are extraordinary >>>things inside themselves, as well as >>>others. i hope you can keep an open >>>mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>>....................................... >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Oct 13 17:39:27 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:39:27 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 million people have a disability in the United States. That's 19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United States population has a disability, according to the latest census data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at it). This is from the official US census government website. So we should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its existence. Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity to help with this! Michelle >Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant to >add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't sure >what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could say "the >world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we need to >adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure we should >say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our numbers per >country. We are still kind of making a guess when it comes to just >the United States. > >With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement on >our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to get it >to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure we say >only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some brainstorming >help ASAP!!! > >Michelle > >>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>to give us any respect. >> >>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>sure Richard did the research. >> >>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>> I can't open these at all: >>> >>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>> >>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total >>>is under 50 mg? >>> >>> One thing to change: >>> >> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> > >>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>>world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>>prefer the world wording >>> >>> ---- Original message ---- >>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> > >>> >Hee, >>> > >>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>> > >>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>> > >>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>> > >>> >Greets, >>> > >>> >Richard >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >games_access mailing list >>> >games_access at igda.org >>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> ....................................... >>> these are mediocre times and people are >>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>> things inside themselves, as well as >>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>> mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>> ....................................... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From glinert at MIT.EDU Sat Oct 13 17:56:09 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:56:09 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be misleading for several reasons: 1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 and up. 2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. 3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? Moral is: Be careful with that number. Eitan At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a friend that >works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 million people have a >disability in the United States. That's 19.4%. So I think we can safely >say "nearly 20% of the United States population has a disability, >according to the latest census data" (better wording can probably be found >but that's a stab at it). This is from the official US census government >website. So we should go with just the US in the flier because we can say >that with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably covered >more by US media...at least for this first year of its existence. > >Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the flier. >You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity to help with this! > >Michelle > >>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant to add >>and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't sure what was >>meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could say "the world" but I >>don't know the percentages and certainly we need to adjust the numbers >>depending on the wording. I'm not sure we should say the 10-20% until we >>get more confident in our numbers per country. We are still kind of >>making a guess when it comes to just the United States. >> >>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement on our >>flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to get it to the >>printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure we say only what we >>are comfortable saying. So we need some brainstorming help ASAP!!! >> >>Michelle >> >>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>>to give us any respect. >>> >>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>>sure Richard did the research. >>> >>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>> I can't open these at all: >>>> >>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>> >>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total is >>>> under 50 mg? >>>> >>>> One thing to change: >>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> > >>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the world >>>> population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i prefer the >>>> world wording >>>> >>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>> > >>>> >Hee, >>>> > >>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>> > >>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>>> > >>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>> > >>>> >Greets, >>>> > >>>> >Richard >>>> > >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >games_access mailing list >>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> ....................................... >>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>> mind. >>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>> ....................................... >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Oct 13 18:11:19 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:11:19 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: Yeah, it's definitely not without it's problems as you point out. As I said the other day, I have dyslexia but I didn't say "yes" to the disability question when I filled it out myself. But it's a stat that we can cite and that's the key thing now. The trouble is the timing - we need to say SOMETHING that finishes this flier and I needed to get it to the printer yesterday and I'm hoping Richard still has some time to edit it. But we aren't getting a lot (any?) feedback on what to substitute it with. So the question is -- do we cite that stat knowing it's problematic or do we skip it and go with some other opening statement...if so? What? Michelle >Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >misleading for several reasons: >1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 and up. >2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? > >Moral is: Be careful with that number. >Eitan > >At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably covered >>more by US media...at least for this first year of its existence. >> >>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity to >>help with this! >> >>Michelle >> >>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't >>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >>>comes to just the United States. >>> >>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to get >>>it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure we >>>say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>>>to give us any respect. >>>> >>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>>>sure Richard did the research. >>>> >>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>>> I can't open these at all: >>>>> >>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>>> >>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >>>>>total is under 50 mg? >>>>> >>>>> One thing to change: >>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>> > >>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>>>>world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>>>>prefer the world wording >>>>> >>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>>> > >>>>> >Hee, >>>>> > >>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer a little >>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>>> > >>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>>>> > >>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>>> > >>>>> >Greets, >>>>> > >>>>> >Richard >>>>> > >>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> ....................................... >>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>>> mind. >>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>>> ....................................... >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From ioo at ablegamers.com Sat Oct 13 19:44:38 2007 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Ioo) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:44:38 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less discussion on buying a new house. Mark Eitan Glinert wrote: > Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used it > myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 year old > US citizens have a disability. But that number can be misleading for > several reasons: > 1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 > and up. > 2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the higher > age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of that > 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. > 3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that you > can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but > non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? > > Moral is: Be careful with that number. > Eitan > > At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a friend >> that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 million >> people have a disability in the United States. That's 19.4%. So I >> think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United States population >> has a disability, according to the latest census data" (better >> wording can probably be found but that's a stab at it). This is from >> the official US census government website. So we should go with just >> the US in the flier because we can say that with more certainty plus >> the expo is in the US and probably covered more by US media...at >> least for this first year of its existence. >> >> Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >> flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity to >> help with this! >> >> Michelle >> >>> Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant to >>> add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't sure >>> what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could say "the >>> world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we need to >>> adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure we should >>> say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our numbers per >>> country. We are still kind of making a guess when it comes to just >>> the United States. >>> >>> With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement on >>> our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to get it >>> to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure we say >>> only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some brainstorming >>> help ASAP!!! >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>>> Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>> world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>>> to give us any respect. >>>> >>>> I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>>> sure Richard did the research. >>>> >>>> On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>>> I can't open these at all: >>>>> >>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>>> >>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the total >>>>> is under 50 mg? >>>>> >>>>> One thing to change: >>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>> > >>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of the >>>>> world population..." instead? That or "in each country." but i >>>>> prefer the world wording >>>>> >>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >Hee, >>>>> > >>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the flyer >>>>> a little >>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>>> > >>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on >>>>> page) >>>>> > >>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>>> > >>>>> >Greets, >>>>> > >>>>> >Richard >>>>> > >>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> ....................................... >>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>>> mind. >>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>>> ....................................... >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Oct 13 20:17:49 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:17:49 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> Message-ID: Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the printer now. Michelle >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. > >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less >discussion on buying a new house. > >Mark > >Eitan Glinert wrote: >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >>misleading for several reasons: >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 and up. >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? >> >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. >>Eitan >> >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its >>>existence. >>> >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity >>>to help with this! >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >>>>comes to just the United States. >>>> >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>> >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>>>>to give us any respect. >>>>> >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>>>>sure Richard did the research. >>>>> >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>>>> I can't open these at all: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing to change: >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>> > >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Hee, >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the >>>>>>flyer a little >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Greets, >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Richard >>>>>> > >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>> ....................................... >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>>>> mind. >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>>>> ....................................... >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 03:17:19 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:17:19 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> Message-ID: <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com> small suggestions: We can always say X % has a disability. (this is a hard fact--> ). and then.... a significant amount of those have problems playing games without naming a statistic. Then we still have the large number to draw attention and we don't make up numbers. Cheers eelke On 10/13/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to > print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." > > If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census > and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee > discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. > While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for > disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep > thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and > always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the > printer now. > > Michelle > > >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a > >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. > >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next > >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It > >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this > >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. > > > >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less > >discussion on buying a new house. > > > >Mark > > > >Eitan Glinert wrote: > >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used > >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 > >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be > >>misleading for several reasons: > >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 and up. > >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the > >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of > >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. > >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that > >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but > >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? > >> > >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. > >>Eitan > >> > >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a > >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 > >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's > >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United > >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census > >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at > >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we > >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that > >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably > >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its > >>>existence. > >>> > >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the > >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity > >>>to help with this! > >>> > >>>Michelle > >>> > >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant > >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't > >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could > >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we > >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure > >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our > >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it > >>>>comes to just the United States. > >>>> > >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement > >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to > >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure > >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some > >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! > >>>> > >>>>Michelle > >>>> > >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to > >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going > >>>>>to give us any respect. > >>>>> > >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm > >>>>>sure Richard did the research. > >>>>> > >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > >>>>>> I can't open these at all: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg > >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the > >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> One thing to change: > >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > >>>>> > > >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of > >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." > >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- > >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 > >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" > >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update > >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >Hee, > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the > >>>>>>flyer a little > >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg > >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on page) > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >Greets, > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >Richard > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ > >>>>>> >games_access mailing list > >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org > >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >>>>>> ....................................... > >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are > >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people > >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary > >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as > >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open > >>>>>> mind. > >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" > >>>>>> ....................................... > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> games_access mailing list > >>>>>> games_access at igda.org > >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>games_access mailing list > >>>>>games_access at igda.org > >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>games_access mailing list > >>>>games_access at igda.org > >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>games_access mailing list > >>>games_access at igda.org > >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>games_access mailing list > >>games_access at igda.org > >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >games_access mailing list > >games_access at igda.org > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Oct 14 13:24:45 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:24:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update In-Reply-To: <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What percentage would that be? It would seem weird to just have X%...I think I'm misreading this though. :) I don't think we're making up numbers -- we are choosing a certain number to go with for this flier -- I'm sure that as hard as we worked, we would not be able to do the job that the census has done. I read last night that the UN has 650 million worldwide as a number in their disability numbers. So there's a lot of political choices we can make in what number we use -- none are making up numbers...they are just using different qualifiers to define disability. Michelle >small suggestions: > >We can always say X % has a disability. (this is a hard fact--> ). > >and then.... a significant amount of those have problems playing >games without naming a statistic. Then we still have the large number >to draw attention and we don't make up numbers. > >Cheers eelke > > >On 10/13/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to >> print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." >> >> If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census >> and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee >> discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. >> While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for >> disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep >> thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and >> always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the >> printer now. >> >> Michelle >> >> >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a >> >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. >> >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next >> >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It >> >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this >> >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. >> > >> >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less >> >discussion on buying a new house. >> > >> >Mark >> > >> >Eitan Glinert wrote: >> >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >> >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >> >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >> >>misleading for several reasons: >> >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, >>and 65 and up. >> >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >> >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >> >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >> >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >> >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >> >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? >> >> >> >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. >> >>Eitan >> >> >> >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >> >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >> >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >> >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >> >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >> >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >> >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >> >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >> >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably >> >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its >> >>>existence. >> >>> >> >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >> >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity >> >>>to help with this! >> >>> >> >>>Michelle >> >>> >> >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >> >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't > > >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >> >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >> >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >> >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >> >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >> >>>>comes to just the United States. >> >>>> >> >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >> >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to >> >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure >> >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >> >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >> >>>> >> >>>>Michelle >> >>>> >> >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >> >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >> >>>>>to give us any respect. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >> >>>>>sure Richard did the research. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >> >>>>>> I can't open these at all: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >> >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> One thing to change: >> >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of >> >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." >> >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- >> >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >> >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >> >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >> >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >Hee, >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the >> >>>>>>flyer a little >> >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >> >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>(2 on page) >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >Greets, >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >Richard >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> >games_access mailing list >> >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org >> >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>>>>> ....................................... >> >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >> >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >> >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >> >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >> >>>>>> mind. >> >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" >> >>>>>> ....................................... >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> games_access mailing list >> >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >> >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>>>games_access mailing list >> >>>>>games_access at igda.org >> >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>>> >> >>>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>>games_access mailing list >> >>>>games_access at igda.org >> >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>games_access mailing list >> >>>games_access at igda.org >> >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>games_access mailing list >> >>games_access at igda.org >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >games_access mailing list >> >games_access at igda.org >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Oct 14 14:38:36 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:38:36 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Final Flier Info In-Reply-To: References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu> <47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry to keep adding to the email clutter -- if anyone would like to have their subscription options switched to digest mode, please let me know off list (hinn at uiuc.edu) -- but this is crunch time and in less than two days I'm leaving for E for All and will be in extreme amount of pain (bad timing for E for All but that's life) so I hope everyone will forgive me for sending 90 messages a day but I know what I'm physically up against and the clock is ticking. I need to get the flier to the printer no later than 11pm (NYC time) tonight -- that's in under 10 hours. I'm going to take whatever we have right now and edit it (if I can - hopefully Richard can help but I have the feeling he's out of town at the moment). I'm going with the US census percentage even though that number is problematic because we need to have something there and at least we can say "according to the US census" and not according to my neighbor or whatever. We can always explain the problems with that if/when asked by the press. This isn't a paper -- this is a flier and as long as we can say where we got that number, there really isn't a problem. I wish we had better world stats but we don't. So this will be US-centric. I'll be printing out a total of 3000 (6000 when the flier is cut in half), which will add at least another $150 to our (my) already growing expenses. This is the MINIMUM number that the E for All folks have suggested. So last call for suggestions -- we just don't have the time anymore. We can create the perfect flier for GDC...for right now, it's just too late. Michelle >What percentage would that be? It would seem weird to just have >X%...I think I'm misreading this though. :) > >I don't think we're making up numbers -- we are choosing a certain >number to go with for this flier -- I'm sure that as hard as we >worked, we would not be able to do the job that the census has done. >I read last night that the UN has 650 million worldwide as a number >in their disability numbers. > >So there's a lot of political choices we can make in what number we >use -- none are making up numbers...they are just using different >qualifiers to define disability. > >Michelle > >>small suggestions: >> >>We can always say X % has a disability. (this is a hard fact--> ). >> >>and then.... a significant amount of those have problems playing >>games without naming a statistic. Then we still have the large number >>to draw attention and we don't make up numbers. >> >>Cheers eelke >> >> >>On 10/13/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>> Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to >>> print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." >>> >>> If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census >>> and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee >>> discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. >>> While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for >>> disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep >>> thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and >>> always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the >>> printer now. >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>> >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a >>> >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. >>> >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next >>> >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It >>> >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this >>> >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. >>> > >>> >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less >>> >discussion on buying a new house. >>> > >>> >Mark >>> > >>> >Eitan Glinert wrote: >>> >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >>> >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >>> >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >>> >>misleading for several reasons: >>> >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, >>>and 65 and up. >>> >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >>> >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >>> >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >>> >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >>> >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >>> >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? >>> >> >>> >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. >>> >>Eitan >>> >> >>> >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>> >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >>> >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >>> >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >>> >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >>> >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >>> >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >>> >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >>> >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >>> >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably >>> >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its >>> >>>existence. >>> >>> >>> >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >>> >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity >>> >>>to help with this! >>> >>> >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>> >>> >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >>> >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't >> > >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >>> >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >>> >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >>> >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >>> >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >>> >>>>comes to just the United States. >>> >>>> >>> >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >>> >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to >>> >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure >>> >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >>> >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >>> >>>> >>> >>>>Michelle >>> >>>> >>> >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>> >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is going >>> >>>>>to give us any respect. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>> >>>>>sure Richard did the research. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>> >>>>>> I can't open these at all: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >>> >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> One thing to change: >>> >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of >>> >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." >>> >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>> >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>> >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>> >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>> >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >Hee, >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the >>> >>>>>>flyer a little >>> >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>> >>>>>> >>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on >>>page) >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >Greets, >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >Richard >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> >games_access mailing list >>> >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>> >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>> >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>> >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>> >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>> >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>> >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>> >>>>>> mind. >>> >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>> >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>> >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>games_access mailing list >>> >>>>>games_access at igda.org >>> >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>>games_access mailing list >>> >>>>games_access at igda.org >>> >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>games_access mailing list >>> >>>games_access at igda.org >>> >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>games_access mailing list >>> >>games_access at igda.org >>> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >games_access mailing list >>> >games_access at igda.org >>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Sun Oct 14 16:04:38 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:04:38 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Final Flier Info References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu><6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu><47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00df01c80e9d$775606c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, Back in town ;) Can help edit the flyer for 2 or 3 more hours more, then I need to go to bed and get up early tomorrow. In any case, I'll make the Photoshop file available so others can edit the flyer, no problem. K... quick response to all previous emails: I personally think the flyer should be fun and attractive for the E4All crowd, and prefer a catchy phrase over boring statistics. That said, I also believe we should not be spreading statistics that are false. I think that right now people are giving too much thought about the actual statistics and we shouldn't do that. "Between 10% and 20%" is a pretty big range and I guess we can get away with that at something like E4All. However, I think it is THE MESSAGE we should be thinking about. And the message (without the numbers) is this: "Did You Know There Are Loads Of People Out There Who Can't Play Games Due To A Disability?" So... We got a couple of hours for an alternative. I personally think we can keep the 10%/20%-line and get away with it. Even if there's a person in the E4All crowd who's hobby it is to carry statistics with him around on the floor. I'd actually be happy, so that person can then tell US what the correct numbers are. I like this sentence better that something like I wrote above ("Did You Know There Are Loads...etc."). That's my vote. Because it is my personal experience that printwork in real life can only be designed by 2 or 3 people max (to make the decisions), I'd like us to make a decision between NOW and three hours. So if you want something else on the flyer, post your alternative now. If you don't have an alternative but only fuel for discussion, please don't post. I do value your opinions, but we have to get a flyer out in a couple of hours. Please, with all respect, use another discussion for that. Out of all the alternatives posted, I propose we decide - simply by posting your vote for your fave alternative. And if we can't then just one person will make that (simple) decision. Michelle: are you printing or copying the flyers? And using any special kind of paper? Because 3000 B/W copy on regular paper is (if I remember correctly from my days at the copy shop) a lot less than $150... more like $50... at least here in Holland? Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: [games_access] Final Flier Info > Sorry to keep adding to the email clutter -- if anyone would like to have > their subscription options switched to digest mode, please let me know off > list (hinn at uiuc.edu) -- but this is crunch time and in less than two days > I'm leaving for E for All and will be in extreme amount of pain (bad > timing for E for All but that's life) so I hope everyone will forgive me > for sending 90 messages a day but I know what I'm physically up against > and the clock is ticking. > > I need to get the flier to the printer no later than 11pm (NYC time) > tonight -- that's in under 10 hours. I'm going to take whatever we have > right now and edit it (if I can - hopefully Richard can help but I have > the feeling he's out of town at the moment). I'm going with the US census > percentage even though that number is problematic because we need to have > something there and at least we can say "according to the US census" and > not according to my neighbor or whatever. We can always explain the > problems with that if/when asked by the press. This isn't a paper -- this > is a flier and as long as we can say where we got that number, there > really isn't a problem. I wish we had better world stats but we don't. So > this will be US-centric. > > I'll be printing out a total of 3000 (6000 when the flier is cut in half), > which will add at least another $150 to our (my) already growing expenses. > This is the MINIMUM number that the E for All folks have suggested. > > So last call for suggestions -- we just don't have the time anymore. We > can create the perfect flier for GDC...for right now, it's just too late. > > Michelle > >>What percentage would that be? It would seem weird to just have X%...I >>think I'm misreading this though. :) >> >>I don't think we're making up numbers -- we are choosing a certain number >>to go with for this flier -- I'm sure that as hard as we worked, we would >>not be able to do the job that the census has done. I read last night that >>the UN has 650 million worldwide as a number in their disability numbers. >> >>So there's a lot of political choices we can make in what number we use -- >>none are making up numbers...they are just using different qualifiers to >>define disability. >> >>Michelle >> >>>small suggestions: >>> >>>We can always say X % has a disability. (this is a hard fact--> ). >>> >>>and then.... a significant amount of those have problems playing >>>games without naming a statistic. Then we still have the large number >>>to draw attention and we don't make up numbers. >>> >>>Cheers eelke >>> >>> >>>On 10/13/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>> Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to >>>> print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." >>>> >>>> If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census >>>> and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee >>>> discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. >>>> While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for >>>> disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep >>>> thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and >>>> always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the >>>> printer now. >>>> >>>> Michelle >>>> >>>> >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a >>>> >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. >>>> >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next >>>> >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It >>>> >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this >>>> >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. >>>> > >>>> >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less >>>> >discussion on buying a new house. >>>> > >>>> >Mark >>>> > >>>> >Eitan Glinert wrote: >>>> >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >>>> >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >>>> >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >>>> >>misleading for several reasons: >>>> >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, and 65 >>>> and up. >>>> >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >>>> >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >>>> >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >>>> >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >>>> >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >>>> >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? >>>> >> >>>> >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. >>>> >>Eitan >>>> >> >>>> >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>> >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >>>> >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >>>> >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >>>> >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >>>> >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >>>> >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >>>> >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >>>> >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >>>> >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably >>>> >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its >>>> >>>existence. >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >>>> >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity >>>> >>>to help with this! >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Michelle >>>> >>> >>>> >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >>>> >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't >>> > >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >>>> >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >>>> >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >>>> >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >>>> >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >>>> >>>>comes to just the United States. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >>>> >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to >>>> >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure >>>> >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >>>> >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Michelle >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>> >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no one is >>>> going >>>> >>>>>to give us any respect. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, >>>> I'm >>>> >>>>>sure Richard did the research. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I can't open these at all: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >>>> >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> One thing to change: >>>> >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of >>>> >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." >>>> >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>> >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>> >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>> >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>> >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>> >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >Hee, >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the >>>> >>>>>>flyer a little >>>> >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on >>>>page) >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >Greets, >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >Richard >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>> >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>>> >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>> >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>> >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>> >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>> >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>> >>>>>> mind. >>>> >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>> >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>games_access mailing list >>>> >>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>games_access mailing list >>>> >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>>games_access mailing list >>>> >>>games_access at igda.org >>>> >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>games_access mailing list >>>> >>games_access at igda.org >>>> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >> >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >games_access mailing list >>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Oct 14 16:58:38 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:58:38 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Final Flier Info In-Reply-To: <00df01c80e9d$775606c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu><6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.m it.edu><47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com> <836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3 546841bf@mail.gmail.com> <00df01c80e9d$775606c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: Price: I'm bringing the fliers to the cheapest place in town to print them -- and, yeah, that's for the cheapest paper. I wish you could print them!!!! $50 is a lot more attractive than $150! I WILL get this reimbursed by the IGDA -- that they told me for sure. Percentage: I think that we should go with 10-20% of people (don't put "in a country" because that's a bit awkward and I think we can safely say 10-20% without saying "in the world" or naming a country). I wish I hadn't said anything in the first place -- I was more worried about the "in a country" phrasing than the number. Yes...this is not a stats paper -- it's a flier and it should be catchy and attractive. I was trying to come up with the shortest phrasing I could (based on US census...blah, blah, blah) but in the end? If people are going to ask us where we got that number and I can verbally cite a lot of stat sources if they really want to hear about it. That's why I was trying to put a stop to this with the 11pm New York Time but since we get you for a couple more hours, a couple more hours it is! Michelle >Hi, > >Back in town ;) Can help edit the flyer for 2 or 3 more hours more, >then I need to go to bed and get up early tomorrow. In any case, >I'll make the Photoshop file available so others can edit the flyer, >no problem. > >K... quick response to all previous emails: > >I personally think the flyer should be fun and attractive for the >E4All crowd, and prefer a catchy phrase over boring statistics. That >said, I also believe we should not be spreading statistics that are >false. I think that right now people are giving too much thought >about the actual statistics and we shouldn't do that. "Between 10% >and 20%" is a pretty big range and I guess we can get away with that >at something like E4All. However, I think it is THE MESSAGE we >should be thinking about. And the message (without the numbers) is >this: > >"Did You Know There Are Loads Of People Out There Who Can't Play >Games Due To A Disability?" > >So... > >We got a couple of hours for an alternative. I personally think we >can keep the 10%/20%-line and get away with it. Even if there's a >person in the E4All crowd who's hobby it is to carry statistics with >him around on the floor. I'd actually be happy, so that person can >then tell US what the correct numbers are. I like this sentence >better that something like I wrote above ("Did You Know There Are >Loads...etc."). That's my vote. > >Because it is my personal experience that printwork in real life can >only be designed by 2 or 3 people max (to make the decisions), I'd >like us to make a decision between NOW and three hours. So if you >want something else on the flyer, post your alternative now. If you >don't have an alternative but only fuel for discussion, please don't >post. I do value your opinions, but we have to get a flyer out in a >couple of hours. Please, with all respect, use another discussion >for that. Out of all the alternatives posted, I propose we decide - >simply by posting your vote for your fave alternative. And if we >can't then just one person will make that (simple) decision. > >Michelle: are you printing or copying the flyers? And using any >special kind of paper? Because 3000 B/W copy on regular paper is (if >I remember correctly from my days at the copy shop) a lot less than >$150... more like $50... at least here in Holland? > >Greets, > >Richard > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 8:38 PM >Subject: [games_access] Final Flier Info > >>Sorry to keep adding to the email clutter -- if anyone would like >>to have their subscription options switched to digest mode, please >>let me know off list (hinn at uiuc.edu) -- but this is crunch time and >>in less than two days I'm leaving for E for All and will be in >>extreme amount of pain (bad timing for E for All but that's life) >>so I hope everyone will forgive me for sending 90 messages a day >>but I know what I'm physically up against and the clock is ticking. >> >>I need to get the flier to the printer no later than 11pm (NYC >>time) tonight -- that's in under 10 hours. I'm going to take >>whatever we have right now and edit it (if I can - hopefully >>Richard can help but I have the feeling he's out of town at the >>moment). I'm going with the US census percentage even though that >>number is problematic because we need to have something there and >>at least we can say "according to the US census" and not according >>to my neighbor or whatever. We can always explain the problems with >>that if/when asked by the press. This isn't a paper -- this is a >>flier and as long as we can say where we got that number, there >>really isn't a problem. I wish we had better world stats but we >>don't. So this will be US-centric. >> >>I'll be printing out a total of 3000 (6000 when the flier is cut in >>half), which will add at least another $150 to our (my) already >>growing expenses. This is the MINIMUM number that the E for All >>folks have suggested. >> >>So last call for suggestions -- we just don't have the time >>anymore. We can create the perfect flier for GDC...for right now, >>it's just too late. >> >>Michelle >> >>>What percentage would that be? It would seem weird to just have >>>X%...I think I'm misreading this though. :) >>> >>>I don't think we're making up numbers -- we are choosing a certain >>>number to go with for this flier -- I'm sure that as hard as we >>>worked, we would not be able to do the job that the census has >>>done. I read last night that the UN has 650 million worldwide as a >>>number in their disability numbers. >>> >>>So there's a lot of political choices we can make in what number >>>we use -- none are making up numbers...they are just using >>>different qualifiers to define disability. >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>>small suggestions: >>>> >>>>We can always say X % has a disability. (this is a hard fact--> ). >>>> >>>>and then.... a significant amount of those have problems playing >>>>games without naming a statistic. Then we still have the large number >>>>to draw attention and we don't make up numbers. >>>> >>>>Cheers eelke >>>> >>>> >>>>On 10/13/07, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>> Yeah, at the end of the day (maybe even this one?) we just need to >>>>> print the flier and say "according to the US Census, about 20%...." >>>>> >>>>> If people grill us on the number we can point them to the US census >>>>> and other groups and/or have long midnight chats over coffee >>>>> discussing the statistic and what it does and does not represent. >>>>> While the numbers are important to get...we aren't the SIG for >>>>> disability statistics. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep >>>>> thinking about the numbers, as companies will want to know (and >>>>> always grill us on them). But we just need to run this flier to the >>>>> printer now. >>>>> >>>>> Michelle >>>>> >>>>> >Guys come on... this is not a legal document and it is not a >>>>> >contract vehicle that is going to be executed at the end of the day. >>>>> >This is a flier, not a scientific paper being proofed for next >>>>> >months Journal Nature. Add the word ABOUT or ROUGHLY and move on. It >>>>> >is a great opening statement and a simple qualifier will make this >>>>> >fine. We have 18.6% to 23% so say "about 20%" and move forward. >>>>> > >>>>> >I know I am new to the group, and I keep quiet, but I have seen less >>>>> >discussion on buying a new house. >>>>> > >>>>> >Mark >>>>> > >>>>> >Eitan Glinert wrote: >>>>> >>Be careful with that statistic, it's a bit tricky (though I've used >>>>> >>it myself.) According to the 2000 US census, some 18.6% of 16-64 >>>>> >>year old US citizens have a disability. But that number can be >>>>> >>misleading for several reasons: >>>>> >>1. The age ranges are bizarre. They go from 0-4, 5-15, 16-64, >>>>>and 65 and up. >>>>> >>2. Disabilities tend to be very heavily congregated towards the >>>>> >>higher age range. In the 16-64 group, for instance, the majority of >>>>> >>that 18.6% lies in the top third of the age range. >>>>> >>3. Disability is nebulously defined. Does missing a leg mean that >>>>> >>you can't play games (save DDR?) How about a severe, but >>>>> >>non-incapacitating illness? ADHD? >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Moral is: Be careful with that number. >>>>> >>Eitan >>>>> >> >>>>> >>At 05:39 PM 10/13/2007, d. michelle hinn wrote: >>>>> >>>According to the latest US census (I called a friend who has a >>>>> >>>friend that works for the census AND it's on their website), 49 >>>>> >>>million people have a disability in the United States. That's >>>>> >>>19.4%. So I think we can safely say "nearly 20% of the United >>>>> >>>States population has a disability, according to the latest census >>>>> >>>data" (better wording can probably be found but that's a stab at >>>>> >>>it). This is from the official US census government website. So we >>>>> >>>should go with just the US in the flier because we can say that >>>>> >>>with more certainty plus the expo is in the US and probably >>>>> >>>covered more by US media...at least for this first year of its >>>>> >>>existence. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>Richard -- I hope you have a little bit of extra time to tweak the >>>>> >>>flier. You have been VERY generous with your time and creativity >>>>> >>>to help with this! >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>Michelle >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>Yes, you are right -- it definitely changes things, which I meant >>>>> >>>>to add and didn't so thanks for raising this issue. I just wasn't >>>> > >>>>sure what was meant by "a country" and would prefer if we could >>>>> >>>>say "the world" but I don't know the percentages and certainly we >>>>> >>>>need to adjust the numbers depending on the wording. I'm not sure >>>>> >>>>we should say the 10-20% until we get more confident in our >>>>> >>>>numbers per country. We are still kind of making a guess when it >>>>> >>>>comes to just the United States. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>With that in mind...what should we have as our opening statement >>>>> >>>>on our flier? We don't have a long time to decide -- I need to >>>>> >>>>get it to the printer as soon as possible so we need to make sure >>>>> >>>>we say only what we are comfortable saying. So we need some >>>>> >>>>brainstorming help ASAP!!! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>Michelle >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Maybe I completely suck at math but doesn't changing "country" to >>>>> >>>>>world COMPLETELY change the facts? If we can't do that no >>>>>one is going >>>>> >>>>>to give us any respect. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I don't even know if 10 - 20% of a given country is the truth, I'm >>>>> >>>>>sure Richard did the research. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 10/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I can't open these at all: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer4onpage.jpg >>>>> >>>>>> http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> How big are they? Can you try to send as attachments if the >>>>> >>>>>>total is under 50 mg? >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> One thing to change: >>>>> >>>>> > http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> "in a country" -- maybe "between 10 and 20% (on average) of >>>>> >>>>>>the world population..." instead? That or "in each country." >>>>> >>>>>>but i prefer the world wording >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>>> >>>>>> >Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:49:36 +0200 >>>>> >>>>>> >From: "AudioGames.net" >>>>> >>>>>> >Subject: [games_access] E For All Flyer Update >>>>> >>>>>> >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >Hee, >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >Due to calculation error of my part, I had to rescale the >>>>> >>>>>>flyer a little >>>>> >>>>>> >bit. See latest versions here: >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0009.jpg >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyermaster0001.jpg (2 on >>>>>page) >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >Michelle: 4 on page I can do, but text will become small... >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >Greets, >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >Richard >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>>> >>>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>>>> >>>>>> these are mediocre times and people are >>>>> >>>>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>>> >>>>>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>>>> >>>>>> things inside themselves, as well as >>>>> >>>>>> others. i hope you can keep an open >>>>> >>>>>> mind. >>>>> >>>>>> -- "unbreakable" >>>>> >>>>>> ....................................... >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> >>>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>>games_access mailing list >>>>> >>>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>> >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>games_access mailing list >>>>> >>>games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >> >>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>>> >>games_access mailing list >>>>> >>games_access at igda.org >>>>> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >> >>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>> >games_access mailing list >>>>> >games_access at igda.org >>>>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> games_access mailing list >>>>> games_access at igda.org >>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>>>Department of CS&E/171 >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>>>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Sun Oct 14 19:17:16 2007 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:17:16 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Flyer Once More References: <20071012161812.AWE86411@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu><6.2.1.2.2.20071013174948.02e10230@po12.mit.edu><47115866.5060202@ablegamers.com><836db6300710140017n408d3809mc9a212b3546841bf@mail.gmail.com><00df01c80e9d$775606c0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <016301c80eb8$5c7b87b0$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi Guys, See http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/ for the current version: http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0010jpg.jpg = big jpg version http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/e4allflyer0010lores.jpg = lo-res version http://kmt.hku.nl/~richard/e4all/E4All.zip = contains 8 versions, inlcuding original photoshop files and jpg files, of single flyer and 2-on-a-page. Greets, Richard From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Oct 14 19:26:11 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:26:11 +0100 Subject: [games_access] GASIG Blog posts Message-ID: <06d601c80eb9$9c7c2760$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Nice "Gamez" blog entry here: http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071013/NEWS/710130331/1321 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Oct 14 19:46:13 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:46:13 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Strange Attractors 2 - entered into IGF 2007 Message-ID: <06ed01c80ebc$68b593f0$0202a8c0@oneswitch> http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/strange-attractors-2.html Some interesting screen shots there too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 12:43:45 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:43:45 -0700 Subject: [games_access] second life brain computer interface Message-ID: <836db6300710150943k5e76f17m6f651d6145e55c1a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/15/braincomputer-interf.html -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 12:50:52 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:50:52 -0700 Subject: [games_access] second life brain computer interface Message-ID: <836db6300710150950j27b9a199g4a33a0efc3cb7479@mail.gmail.com> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/15/braincomputer-interf.html -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 15 12:58:05 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:05 -0500 Subject: [games_access] second life brain computer interface In-Reply-To: <836db6300710150950j27b9a199g4a33a0efc3cb7479@mail.gmail.com> References: <836db6300710150950j27b9a199g4a33a0efc3cb7479@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's hard not to read about these without thinking "wow...I think we are in the sci-fi 'future' now!" :) >http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/15/braincomputer-interf.html > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Tue Oct 16 10:24:40 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:24:40 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Press Release: Games for People with Disabilities to Make Showing at E for All 2007 Message-ID: Games for People with Disabilities to Make Showing at E for All 2007 Event Marks the First Game Industry Consumer Expo to Include A Group Advocating Awareness of Gamers with Disabilities CHAMPAIGN, IL - October 14, 2007 - The Game Accessibility Special Interest Group (SIG) of the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) has been invited to participate as exhibitors at next week's E for All Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center, October 18 - 21. SIG members hope that this opportunity will help raise awareness amongst game consumers and developers that people with disabilities also want the chance to play commercial games designed for computers and popular console systems. "The message we hope to convey is that games are for everyone and are an important part of life today that cannot continue to be inaccessible for people with disabilities," said Michelle Hinn, chairperson of the Game Accessibility SIG and game design instructor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. "The majority of games on the market remain unplayable by up to 10-20% of the population. This is not simply an opportunity for developers to increase revenue - it is an issue of social injustice that must be corrected." SIG members also hope that their participation in the first annual E for All will raise awareness amongst potential gamers with disabilities who want to learn more about game hardware alternatives - often created by hobbyist supporters and SIG members - that already exist to make game play possible for some people with certain types of disabilities, usually mobility disabilities. But there are many other types of disabilities - learning, auditory, and visual disabilities - and people with these disabilities require other solutions, such as closed captioning. "The gaming industry cannot just assume that because these controllers exist that they are off the hook," Hinn added. "There are many types of disabilities that impact game play in different ways. Even if someone is using these controllers, many are quite costly and many games still remain impossible to play due to issues such as button combination choices that seem to be complex just to be complex. But this criticism has not only been made by disability advocates - Industry veterans such as Ernest Adams and Peter Molyneux have also spoken out on the game complexity control issue for gamers in general. Solutions that help gamers with disabilities can enhance the game play experience for ALL gamers." The Game Accessibility SIG will be exhibiting at booth #1056 in the Los Angeles Convention Center. The SIG will be presenting games, game mods, and game hardware designed for gamers with disabilities. About the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) The International Game Developers Association is a non-profit professional society that is committed to advancing the careers and enhancing the lives of game developers by connecting members with their peers, promoting professional development, and advocating on issues that affect the developer community. For more information on the IGDA, please visit www.igda.org About the IGDA Game Accessibility Special Interest Group (SIG) The IGDA Game Accessibility SIG is a game industry advocacy group formed to promote awareness of the issues that gamers with disabilities face and to help provide solutions that can be used to design games that are accessible to all. Press inquires should be directed to the SIG chairperson Michelle Hinn at hinn at uiuc.edu -- For more information on the IGDA Game Accessibility SIG, please visit www.igda.org/accessibility -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Sat Oct 20 05:40:04 2007 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= =?UTF-8?B?44CCIg==?=) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:40:04 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility in a Web 2.0 world Message-ID: <935EC890-E2B1-4733-898A-1E7CA278C2E6@btinternet.com> Accessibility in a Web 2.0 world BBC is running a Podcast in immediate future. if you have any comments or issues you would like raised, please let me know, on or off list. regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sat Oct 20 16:56:57 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:56:57 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Vocal Joystick Message-ID: <019601c8135b$c0d89430$0202a8c0@oneswitch> This has great potential - the Vocal Joystick: http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/vocal-joystick.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Oct 21 23:06:09 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! Message-ID: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hi everyone! E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were there at the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we didn't have money for giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't matter and I think worked in our favor at this show. Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the number of press attention, other game company attention, and consumer awareness raising that our booth got because, hey, they took a look at our table with controllers that looked like bombs, etc and the second they approached we were there to tell them what on earth they were looking at. Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from "stars and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were excited to learn about how our stuff can help soldiers who are coming back terribly hurt learn to help with rehab and get back to psychologically feeling like there are ways to enjoy life and that all the work ahead of them does also come with the things that make life worth wanting to live again) to the satire mag "the onion" (he worried me for a sec but he worked for the more serious "a/v geeks" area). Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the midwest and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- it seems like i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive for the "superbug" that is going all around the US. I've learned that some of us are just lucky carriers. So no way to know what was actually what but I think it was mainly exhaustion that cause it all to implode. On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC this year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be willing to do the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules were so bad due to flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? i'll take over -- you leave for an hour....leave the building." I doubt any of us can say that this show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I have been schooled in all things expo for major shows -- contracts with five vendors, five unions, etc...whew. And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we go. I think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I think we did well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect before the show and thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift duty!!! Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 minutes before show close today, they came over -- seems that they have a lot of one button games so I told them about what 1 button meant in our world and they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they saw our pac-man ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked them and said that they wouldn't turn us in but did say that we should talk to their legal before the next time -- and that they'd help see if namco can loan out the ghost intellectual property as a contribution to the cause. Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least these guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... zzzzzzz Michelle ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Oct 22 16:31:56 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:31:56 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <148001c814ea$97362530$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Thanks for the write up Michelle. Apparantly 18,000 people attended - hopefully many of which took a look at the GASIG booth. I see there was a black out at the show too - was this a stunt from you lot to make the whole show inaccessible? http://kotaku.com/gaming/e-for-all/e-for-18000-313476.php Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:06 AM Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! > Hi everyone! > > E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were there at > the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we didn't have money for > giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't matter and I think worked in our > favor at this show. > > Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the number of > press attention, other game company attention, and consumer awareness > raising that our booth got because, hey, they took a look at our table > with controllers that looked like bombs, etc and the second they > approached we were there to tell them what on earth they were looking at. > > Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from "stars > and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were excited to learn > about how our stuff can help soldiers who are coming back terribly hurt > learn to help with rehab and get back to psychologically feeling like > there are ways to enjoy life and that all the work ahead of them does also > come with the things that make life worth wanting to live again) to the > satire mag "the onion" (he worried me for a sec but he worked for the more > serious "a/v geeks" area). > > Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the midwest > and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- it seems like > i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive for the "superbug" > that is going all around the US. I've learned that some of us are just > lucky carriers. So no way to know what was actually what but I think it > was mainly exhaustion that cause it all to implode. > > On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC this > year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be willing to do > the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules were so bad due to > flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? i'll take over -- you leave > for an hour....leave the building." I doubt any of us can say that this > show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I have been schooled in all things expo > for major shows -- contracts with five vendors, five unions, etc...whew. > > And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against > rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) > > More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we go. I > think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I think we did > well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect before the show and > thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift duty!!! > > Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 minutes > before show close today, they came over -- seems that they have a lot of > one button games so I told them about what 1 button meant in our world and > they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they saw our pac-man > ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked them and said that they > wouldn't turn us in but did say that we should talk to their legal before > the next time -- and that they'd help see if namco can loan out the ghost > intellectual property as a contribution to the cause. > > Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least these > guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. > > Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... > > zzzzzzz > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Mon Oct 22 16:42:58 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:42:58 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkICsA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkICsA Message-ID: <005901c814ec$21d00f20$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Very exciting. So with that bug that you have is it contagious if I met with you at GDC this year coming up next year I mean? That's the last thing I would need. :-) I'd tell you to stay healthy Michelle but somehow you like I mean don't like to gravitate to that lately.lol Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of hinn at uiuc.edu Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 11:06 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! Hi everyone! E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were there at the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we didn't have money for giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't matter and I think worked in our favor at this show. Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the number of press attention, other game company attention, and consumer awareness raising that our booth got because, hey, they took a look at our table with controllers that looked like bombs, etc and the second they approached we were there to tell them what on earth they were looking at. Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from "stars and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were excited to learn about how our stuff can help soldiers who are coming back terribly hurt learn to help with rehab and get back to psychologically feeling like there are ways to enjoy life and that all the work ahead of them does also come with the things that make life worth wanting to live again) to the satire mag "the onion" (he worried me for a sec but he worked for the more serious "a/v geeks" area). Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the midwest and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- it seems like i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive for the "superbug" that is going all around the US. I've learned that some of us are just lucky carriers. So no way to know what was actually what but I think it was mainly exhaustion that cause it all to implode. On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC this year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be willing to do the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules were so bad due to flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? i'll take over -- you leave for an hour....leave the building." I doubt any of us can say that this show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I have been schooled in all things expo for major shows -- contracts with five vendors, five unions, etc...whew. And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we go. I think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I think we did well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect before the show and thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift duty!!! Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 minutes before show close today, they came over -- seems that they have a lot of one button games so I told them about what 1 button meant in our world and they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they saw our pac-man ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked them and said that they wouldn't turn us in but did say that we should talk to their legal before the next time -- and that they'd help see if namco can loan out the ghost intellectual property as a contribution to the cause. Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least these guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... zzzzzzz Michelle ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Mon Oct 22 17:49:35 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:49:35 -0400 Subject: [games_access] from Robert update top-secret project. Sour news. In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxEIysA References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxEIysA Message-ID: <000001c814f5$6fb9f4e0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> I'm sad to say that most likely I will no longer be part of the project top-secret that David Perry, earthworm Jim shiny entertainment David Perry, invited me to and 30,000 people signed up to create a game for. A long story short everybody got too greedy, I tried to give them a risk analysis save time, pressure, and tried to clarify my statements that the handful of people left on the project compared to 30,000 people was not fair to the community or the type of development team we have to go for a three-year project. Basically slammed the door in my face they are all getting too greedy, calling it project Titanic because I've pointed out the icebergs coming they're just going to wait until they see them to finally redesigned to scale back which is needed now complete scale back of what we have keeping it but no one wanted to do that instead full fledged large-scale. So I no longer can be part of the project finishing school graduating December 13 to concentrate on that first. Basically they told me to go screw myself when I can't get ahold of any of the people on the advisory board, volunteers, basically being ignored which is a darn frustrating. After all that time devoting seven almost 8 months of my time getting really psyched up about the game design accessible part and then trying to point out all of our pitfalls and gave them a risk analysis design around risks and our resources which were very limited, our people, they just didn't want to see the icebergs coming and I cannot be on a project that has no end in sight. Basically developers were starting to come in and say the game is way too big for any developer to work on so I propose instead of developing this use greedy game which is supposed to be casual gamer target, let's scale it back now and create something we know developers can work with instead of waiting for them to give us their solutions to what we should cut back on let's just do it now. Because the project from the start never designed around risks which was the time needed to devote, the amount of people which of 90% of them more have dropped off, the timeline, and keeping it manageable. So screw them I've learned a lot about the game industry through this experience unfortunately I'd like to start changing some of the things I found out about it because I certainly wouldn't operate my team or with employees the way David Perry and his right hand man Russell have allow the project to turn into. I brought up this opinion to David also basically got no response trying to tell him these people are being treated like slaves and it's hard and wrong and that's why everyone dropped off. Everything I've learned about game design in school for the past four years is completely ignored. The members tried to say it's a new kind of development team so the lessons in books can't be followed with which is a bunch of crap. If they would have followed it from the beginning they would have designed around this risk and we would have a developing document in production already but looks like that's not happening soon. Anyways anyone wants to hear more about this news let me know. It's sad I thought I'd be there until the end and it's sad for the project and other people I've talked about the same reasons who had to drop out for these reasons. Keep in mind nobody is getting paid and the advisory board is working 30 to 40 hours a week which is way too much for anyone. So acclaim found their slaves. Congratulations for them. Robert From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 22 18:54:59 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:54:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! Message-ID: <20071022175459.AWR26625@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> hehe -- the funny bit about the black out is that it did not affect the side of the hall we were on at all (the bad side being that we heard "black hole sun" a few hundred more times from the "rockstar" stage). :) ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:31:56 +0100 >From: "Barrie Ellis" >Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >Thanks for the write up Michelle. Apparantly 18,000 people attended - >hopefully many of which took a look at the GASIG booth. I see there was a >black out at the show too - was this a stunt from you lot to make the whole >show inaccessible? http://kotaku.com/gaming/e-for-all/e-for-18000-313476.php > >Barrie > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:06 AM >Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! > > >> Hi everyone! >> >> E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were there at >> the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we didn't have money for >> giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't matter and I think worked in our >> favor at this show. >> >> Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the number of >> press attention, other game company attention, and consumer awareness >> raising that our booth got because, hey, they took a look at our table >> with controllers that looked like bombs, etc and the second they >> approached we were there to tell them what on earth they were looking at. >> >> Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from "stars >> and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were excited to learn >> about how our stuff can help soldiers who are coming back terribly hurt >> learn to help with rehab and get back to psychologically feeling like >> there are ways to enjoy life and that all the work ahead of them does also >> come with the things that make life worth wanting to live again) to the >> satire mag "the onion" (he worried me for a sec but he worked for the more >> serious "a/v geeks" area). >> >> Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the midwest >> and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- it seems like >> i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive for the "superbug" >> that is going all around the US. I've learned that some of us are just >> lucky carriers. So no way to know what was actually what but I think it >> was mainly exhaustion that cause it all to implode. >> >> On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC this >> year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be willing to do >> the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules were so bad due to >> flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? i'll take over -- you leave >> for an hour....leave the building." I doubt any of us can say that this >> show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I have been schooled in all things expo >> for major shows -- contracts with five vendors, five unions, etc...whew. >> >> And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against >> rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) >> >> More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we go. I >> think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I think we did >> well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect before the show and >> thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift duty!!! >> >> Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 minutes >> before show close today, they came over -- seems that they have a lot of >> one button games so I told them about what 1 button meant in our world and >> they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they saw our pac-man >> ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked them and said that they >> wouldn't turn us in but did say that we should talk to their legal before >> the next time -- and that they'd help see if namco can loan out the ghost >> intellectual property as a contribution to the cause. >> >> Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least these >> guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. >> >> Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... >> >> zzzzzzz >> >> Michelle >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Tue Oct 23 02:53:13 2007 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= =?UTF-8?B?44CCIg==?=) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:13 +0100 Subject: [games_access] from Robert update top-secret project. Sour news. In-Reply-To: <000001c814f5$6fb9f4e0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxEIysA <000001c814f5$6fb9f4e0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Message-ID: <5B46396B-3884-4F3F-8B20-73CAF1912F04@btinternet.com> Robert, sometimes life throws us, I've been struggling with W3C for almost a decade. don't take it too much to heart. best wishes Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 22 Oct 2007, at 22:49, Robert Florio wrote: I'm sad to say that most likely I will no longer be part of the project top-secret that David Perry, earthworm Jim shiny entertainment David Perry, invited me to and 30,000 people signed up to create a game for. A long story short everybody got too greedy, I tried to give them a risk analysis save time, pressure, and tried to clarify my statements that the handful of people left on the project compared to 30,000 people was not fair to the community or the type of development team we have to go for a three-year project. Basically slammed the door in my face they are all getting too greedy, calling it project Titanic because I've pointed out the icebergs coming they're just going to wait until they see them to finally redesigned to scale back which is needed now complete scale back of what we have keeping it but no one wanted to do that instead full fledged large-scale. So I no longer can be part of the project finishing school graduating December 13 to concentrate on that first. Basically they told me to go screw myself when I can't get ahold of any of the people on the advisory board, volunteers, basically being ignored which is a darn frustrating. After all that time devoting seven almost 8 months of my time getting really psyched up about the game design accessible part and then trying to point out all of our pitfalls and gave them a risk analysis design around risks and our resources which were very limited, our people, they just didn't want to see the icebergs coming and I cannot be on a project that has no end in sight. Basically developers were starting to come in and say the game is way too big for any developer to work on so I propose instead of developing this use greedy game which is supposed to be casual gamer target, let's scale it back now and create something we know developers can work with instead of waiting for them to give us their solutions to what we should cut back on let's just do it now. Because the project from the start never designed around risks which was the time needed to devote, the amount of people which of 90% of them more have dropped off, the timeline, and keeping it manageable. So screw them I've learned a lot about the game industry through this experience unfortunately I'd like to start changing some of the things I found out about it because I certainly wouldn't operate my team or with employees the way David Perry and his right hand man Russell have allow the project to turn into. I brought up this opinion to David also basically got no response trying to tell him these people are being treated like slaves and it's hard and wrong and that's why everyone dropped off. Everything I've learned about game design in school for the past four years is completely ignored. The members tried to say it's a new kind of development team so the lessons in books can't be followed with which is a bunch of crap. If they would have followed it from the beginning they would have designed around this risk and we would have a developing document in production already but looks like that's not happening soon. Anyways anyone wants to hear more about this news let me know. It's sad I thought I'd be there until the end and it's sad for the project and other people I've talked about the same reasons who had to drop out for these reasons. Keep in mind nobody is getting paid and the advisory board is working 30 to 40 hours a week which is way too much for anyone. So acclaim found their slaves. Congratulations for them. Robert _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From gramenos at ics.forth.gr Tue Oct 23 10:59:54 2007 From: gramenos at ics.forth.gr (Dimitris Grammenos) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:59:54 +0300 Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Related Publication In-Reply-To: <20071022175459.AWR26625@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20071023145956.E60F98E40FC@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> Hey there... A short article entitled "Game Over?" was published at the Usability Professionals' Association User Experience Magazine Volume 6, Issue 3, 2007 The article is based on my previous "Game Accessibility - Why Bother?" Gamasutra Opinion article (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13650) Cheers, D. From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Oct 23 14:21:05 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:21:05 -0400 Subject: [games_access] from Robert update top-secret project. Sour news. In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEJysA References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxEIysA<000001c814f5$6fb9f4e0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEJysA Message-ID: <000001c815a1$79f16400$6501a8c0@Inspiron> We haven't met before Jonathan and I really appreciate your view. I hope that's just life not the entire industry. Thanks. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of "~:'' ????????????" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:53 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] from Robert update top-secret project. Sour news. Robert, sometimes life throws us, I've been struggling with W3C for almost a decade. don't take it too much to heart. best wishes Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 22 Oct 2007, at 22:49, Robert Florio wrote: I'm sad to say that most likely I will no longer be part of the project top-secret that David Perry, earthworm Jim shiny entertainment David Perry, invited me to and 30,000 people signed up to create a game for. A long story short everybody got too greedy, I tried to give them a risk analysis save time, pressure, and tried to clarify my statements that the handful of people left on the project compared to 30,000 people was not fair to the community or the type of development team we have to go for a three-year project. Basically slammed the door in my face they are all getting too greedy, calling it project Titanic because I've pointed out the icebergs coming they're just going to wait until they see them to finally redesigned to scale back which is needed now complete scale back of what we have keeping it but no one wanted to do that instead full fledged large-scale. So I no longer can be part of the project finishing school graduating December 13 to concentrate on that first. Basically they told me to go screw myself when I can't get ahold of any of the people on the advisory board, volunteers, basically being ignored which is a darn frustrating. After all that time devoting seven almost 8 months of my time getting really psyched up about the game design accessible part and then trying to point out all of our pitfalls and gave them a risk analysis design around risks and our resources which were very limited, our people, they just didn't want to see the icebergs coming and I cannot be on a project that has no end in sight. Basically developers were starting to come in and say the game is way too big for any developer to work on so I propose instead of developing this use greedy game which is supposed to be casual gamer target, let's scale it back now and create something we know developers can work with instead of waiting for them to give us their solutions to what we should cut back on let's just do it now. Because the project from the start never designed around risks which was the time needed to devote, the amount of people which of 90% of them more have dropped off, the timeline, and keeping it manageable. So screw them I've learned a lot about the game industry through this experience unfortunately I'd like to start changing some of the things I found out about it because I certainly wouldn't operate my team or with employees the way David Perry and his right hand man Russell have allow the project to turn into. I brought up this opinion to David also basically got no response trying to tell him these people are being treated like slaves and it's hard and wrong and that's why everyone dropped off. Everything I've learned about game design in school for the past four years is completely ignored. The members tried to say it's a new kind of development team so the lessons in books can't be followed with which is a bunch of crap. If they would have followed it from the beginning they would have designed around this risk and we would have a developing document in production already but looks like that's not happening soon. Anyways anyone wants to hear more about this news let me know. It's sad I thought I'd be there until the end and it's sad for the project and other people I've talked about the same reasons who had to drop out for these reasons. Keep in mind nobody is getting paid and the advisory board is working 30 to 40 hours a week which is way too much for anyone. So acclaim found their slaves. Congratulations for them. Robert _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Oct 24 05:34:00 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:34:00 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! In-Reply-To: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <469AEF19-02E4-454B-A616-42C1A9209D4D@pininteractive.com> hello Michelle happy to hear it went well, and you got some cool contacts with Namco :) how did you do on the donations front and where can I find the Paypal Donate button (if you still are 1200 USD short?) /thomas 22 okt 2007 kl. 05.06 skrev : > Hi everyone! > > E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were > there at the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we > didn't have money for giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't > matter and I think worked in our favor at this show. > > Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the > number of press attention, other game company attention, and > consumer awareness raising that our booth got because, hey, they > took a look at our table with controllers that looked like bombs, > etc and the second they approached we were there to tell them what > on earth they were looking at. > > Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from > "stars and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were > excited to learn about how our stuff can help soldiers who are > coming back terribly hurt learn to help with rehab and get back to > psychologically feeling like there are ways to enjoy life and that > all the work ahead of them does also come with the things that make > life worth wanting to live again) to the satire mag "the onion" (he > worried me for a sec but he worked for the more serious "a/v geeks" > area). > > Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the > midwest and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- > it seems like i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive > for the "superbug" that is going all around the US. I've learned > that some of us are just lucky carriers. So no way to know what was > actually what but I think it was mainly exhaustion that cause it > all to implode. > > On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC > this year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be > willing to do the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules > were so bad due to flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? > i'll take over -- you leave for an hour....leave the building." I > doubt any of us can say that this show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I > have been schooled in all things expo for major shows -- contracts > with five vendors, five unions, etc...whew. > > And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against > rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) > > More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we > go. I think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I > think we did well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect > before the show and thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift > duty!!! > > Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 > minutes before show close today, they came over -- seems that they > have a lot of one button games so I told them about what 1 button > meant in our world and they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they > saw our pac-man ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked > them and said that they wouldn't turn us in but did say that we > should talk to their legal before the next time -- and that they'd > help see if namco can loan out the ghost intellectual property as a > contribution to the cause. > > Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least > these guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. > > Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... > > zzzzzzz > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Oct 24 05:37:18 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:37:18 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! References: <20071021220609.AWP93348@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <469AEF19-02E4-454B-A616-42C1A9209D4D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <016801c81621$78971c00$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Mark from AbleGamers is giving the cause some great support here: http://ablegamers.com/content/view/117/711/ And I've yet to get off my back side and sort out a donate button for OneSwitch - but I will... Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Westin" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] E for All -- Let the Post Mortem Begin! > hello Michelle > > happy to hear it went well, and you got some cool contacts with Namco :) > > how did you do on the donations front and where can I find the Paypal > Donate button (if you still are 1200 USD short?) > > /thomas > > > 22 okt 2007 kl. 05.06 skrev : > >> Hi everyone! >> >> E for All was very successful in the eyes of those of us who were there >> at the show. No, we weren't the "sexy" booth because we didn't have >> money for giant flashing songs, etc but that didn't matter and I think >> worked in our favor at this show. >> >> Yes, it was smaller than the old E3 but what helped us was the number of >> press attention, other game company attention, and consumer awareness >> raising that our booth got because, hey, they took a look at our table >> with controllers that looked like bombs, etc and the second they >> approached we were there to tell them what on earth they were looking >> at. >> >> Media that talked to us include such diverse news outlets -- from "stars >> and stripes" magazine (US military magazine -- they were excited to >> learn about how our stuff can help soldiers who are coming back terribly >> hurt learn to help with rehab and get back to psychologically feeling >> like there are ways to enjoy life and that all the work ahead of them >> does also come with the things that make life worth wanting to live >> again) to the satire mag "the onion" (he worried me for a sec but he >> worked for the more serious "a/v geeks" area). >> >> Many of us had so much trouble getting to LA due to storms in the >> midwest and others (me) wound up in the ER TWICE during the show -- it >> seems like i have a nasty pneumonia and i also tested positive for the >> "superbug" that is going all around the US. I've learned that some of us >> are just lucky carriers. So no way to know what was actually what but I >> think it was mainly exhaustion that cause it all to implode. >> >> On that note...if we, as a SIG, are going to have a booth at GDC this >> year, we need to REALLY think about whether people will be willing to do >> the shifts to make this work. Since our schedules were so bad due to >> flights, we just went with "are you exhausted? i'll take over -- you >> leave for an hour....leave the building." I doubt any of us can say that >> this show wasn't pretty damn tiring. I have been schooled in all things >> expo for major shows -- contracts with five vendors, five unions, >> etc...whew. >> >> And all of us there have a legit post traumatic stress case against >> rockband (blackhole sun...black hole sun...blackholesun....) >> >> More later and I'm sure others will add their comments too as we go. I >> think it was a really cool thing to give it a shot and I think we did >> well. Thanks everyone for helping us get equipment ect before the show >> and thanks to everyone who helped with booth shift duty!!! >> >> Funny story before I close...namco? they were two booths down. 30 >> minutes before show close today, they came over -- seems that they have >> a lot of one button games so I told them about what 1 button meant in >> our world and they were like "wow, VERY cool." then...they saw our >> pac-man ghosts....they laughed and said that they liked them and said >> that they wouldn't turn us in but did say that we should talk to their >> legal before the next time -- and that they'd help see if namco can loan >> out the ghost intellectual property as a contribution to the cause. >> >> Hehe...always dealing with some kind of legal stuff but at least these >> guys were cool. one was the dev on the popeye one button game. >> >> Now...I must go to sleeppppppp... >> >> zzzzzzz >> >> Michelle >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Oct 24 06:03:36 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:03:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] ghost in the CAVE Message-ID: <190F90C1-CC29-4081-B911-930903C5CDB2@pininteractive.com> nice experimental game http://www.speech.kth.se/music/projects/Ghostgame/ /thomas From hinn at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 24 12:41:46 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:41:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth Message-ID: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Ok...some really, really bad news. So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. So much to think about...eee.... Michelle ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Oct 24 21:06:59 2007 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:06:59 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: OK I can give my contacts at Adobe a try, they will most likely have a booth of their own too. Before going on, it's good if we discuss a bit how the sponsoring is done; prices, offers etc. Perhaps something like this as an intro letter: Please: Support IGDA in helping the game industry making games more accessible at GDC 08 The IGDA Game Accessibility Special Interest Group (IGDA GA-SIG) volunteers since 2003 to help the game industry make games more accessible for gamers with disabilities. At Game Developers Conference 2008 in San Francisco, we will have an entire expo booth, plus lectures and other events. Since we are volunteers we need sponsoring to help us pay for the booth. We need to raise a total of $8000. Please You can choose the following sponsor packages Platinum sponsor: For $8000 you will be the only sponsor shown in the booth with you logo all over. Note that this option is only available as long as no one else beats you to it. Gold sponsor: For $4000 you will have half of the booth wall space for your logo and info. Silver sponsor: For $2000 you half a quarter of the booth wall space for your logo and info Note: you need to bring the logo and info material yourself to our booth. Please don't hesitate to contact the IGDA GA-SIG through me Yours sincerely /Thomas 24 okt 2007 kl. 18.41 skrev : > Ok...some really, really bad news. > > So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means > the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were > talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building > up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things > into perspective. > > Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half > the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were > supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs > $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are > estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a > completed booth (which is required and which is everything from > carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). > > Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for > saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about > before major $$$ is due. > > If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who > will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention > working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just > raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means > actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ > sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to > raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a > bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. > > I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to > really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising > around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to > need to work our collective butts off for this. > > So much to think about...eee.... > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 22:23:23 2007 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:23:23 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <836db6300710241923n12c6cc3flc289b134088cbc68@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michelle, I think we should start thinking about fundraising. 8000 dollars however, is a lot of money to raise. But we need structural funding if we want to continue doing what we did in the past. Maybe we should discuss some strategies. Do we need to decide on a booth before we get the acceptance/ rejection on our GDC proposals (when is that exactly)? I think we should start thinking about a worst case / best case scenario for this year's GDC. Worst case none of our proposals is accepted and we have no booth and hence no one get a pass. What can we still do in such a situation? (we could still hand out flyers for those that go anyway), maybe demo our stuff at another location close to GDC? We can still organize SIG meetings right? the location we were at last time e.g the Hall way in the north halls, those big tables would it be possible to demo some stuff there for lets say an hour? I think we should also start thinking about what I think Eitan suggested to organize an indie game competition with the sole focus on creating an accessible game. Maybe for next years GDC we could present these at Jonathan Blow's experimental game workshop? cheers Eelke On 10/24/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > Ok...some really, really bad news. > > So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. > > Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). > > Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. > > If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. > > I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. > > So much to think about...eee.... > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ioo at ablegamers.com Wed Oct 24 22:40:20 2007 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Ioo) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:40:20 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <47200214.60601@ablegamers.com> Just to ask the questions that I think we should really answer before we go full on with fund raising. It is a lot of cash, and we need to really think about this... What do we get from the booth? Do we accomplish our main objective any more effectively from the booth? Is there another way for us to reach out without the booth? I am doing all I can on AbleGamers, but I just do not have the traffic for that kind of cash. Just want to ask before we bite off more than we can chew. Mark hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > Ok...some really, really bad news. > > So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. > > Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). > > Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. > > If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. > > I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. > > So much to think about...eee.... > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From glinert at MIT.EDU Wed Oct 24 22:41:04 2007 From: glinert at MIT.EDU (Eitan Glinert) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:41:04 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: <836db6300710241923n12c6cc3flc289b134088cbc68@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <836db6300710241923n12c6cc3flc289b134088cbc68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20071024223220.03e58cf0@po12.mit.edu> Hi everyone, First, let me say great job to everyone who worked at the E for All booth, I think we did a really great job and got a lot of good press as a result. That said, before we start fundraising like crazy for a booth at GDC, I'd like to ask exactly why we are doing this. Don't get me wrong, a booth would be a great idea if we had real funding and manpower, but as we don't I am not sure this makes tons of sense. We are trying to get a booth so we can A) get press and thereby impress on people the need to make accessible games, and B) so we convince game developers that they should make games, right? However, if we have a small booth in a corner it will be hard to do either, and with stiffer (than E for All) competition from other booths we'll have trouble attracting attention. Furthermore, manning a booth will be very problematic, as we'll have to take time out of going to talks, which I know we all want to do. I think a much better way to spend our time is the following: 1. We all attend and go to talks (like we want to), and simply chat up the accessibility angle as much as possible with people we meet. We'll actually end up talking to more people, and we'll be able to pick and choose who we talk to. Furthermore, we could make a slick website, print up some business cards with that site on it, and hand it out to attendees and press. 2. We give as many talks as possible. I know the deadline for submission has passed, but Ben Sawyer still hasn't finished putting together Serious Games, and I'm sure we can do something there. Talks are more valuable than booths because we can really state our case, and the people who attend those talks are much more likely to internalize what we're saying. Maybe we can also get a session like last time where we show off the different controllers. 3. As Eelke mentioned, I think an accessible game jam would be extremely valuable. We can do it as part of GDC where we do it for prestige, or we can just talk it up at GDC and have people do it afterwards, and offer some sort of cash award. It's cheaper, we'll get more attention, AND we'll get accessible games at it. Whew. Ok, those are my thoughts. Feel free to try to convince me of otherwise, I welcome opposing opinions. Cheers, Eitan At 10:23 PM 10/24/2007, Eelke Folmer wrote: >Hi Michelle, > >I think we should start thinking about fundraising. 8000 dollars >however, is a lot of money to raise. But we need structural funding if >we want to continue doing what we did in the past. Maybe we should >discuss some strategies. Do we need to decide on a booth before we get >the acceptance/ rejection on our GDC proposals (when is that exactly)? > >I think we should start thinking about a worst case / best case >scenario for this year's GDC. Worst case none of our proposals is >accepted and we have no booth and hence no one get a pass. What can we >still do in such a situation? (we could still hand out flyers for >those that go anyway), maybe demo our stuff at another location close >to GDC? We can still organize SIG meetings right? the location we were >at last time e.g the Hall way in the north halls, those big tables >would it be possible to demo some stuff there for lets say an hour? I >think we should also start thinking about what I think Eitan suggested >to organize an indie game competition with the sole focus on creating >an accessible game. Maybe for next years GDC we could present these at >Jonathan Blow's experimental game workshop? > >cheers Eelke > > > >On 10/24/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > > Ok...some really, really bad news. > > > > So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the > physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking > around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). > But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. > > > > Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the > size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed > to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, > yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar > number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is > required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity > ($$ by the voltage). > > > > Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying > "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. > > > > If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who > will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention > working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just > raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively > asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. > So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde > sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching > all at the same time. > > > > I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to > really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around > $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our > collective butts off for this. > > > > So much to think about...eee.... > > > > Michelle > > ....................................... > > these are mediocre times and people are > > losing hope. it's hard for many people > > to believe that there are extraordinary > > things inside themselves, as well as > > others. i hope you can keep an open > > mind. > > -- "unbreakable" > > ....................................... > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From reid at rbkdesign.com Wed Oct 24 23:50:53 2007 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:50:53 -0700 Subject: [games_access] E for All Expo wrap up Message-ID: Hi all, I wanted to let you know in more detail how I thought our time at E for All was. It was wonderful in my opinion. We met many great people who are sympathetic to our cause and didn't know we existed. Not a minute after I walked into the expo are for the first time did I walk by two people who were in motorized wheelchairs to play a game of Quake4 against Fatal1ty, a professional competitive multiplayer gamer. I hung around and asked them how they came to the show to play against Fatal1ty and they said it was through the Make a Wish foundation. I told them about our group and asked they stop by. The next day they did and their parents were very appreciative of our efforts. We had two women from the "Army Recreation Machine Program" who told us that many Iraq war vets come home with tragic injures and could benefit greatly from using games to lift their spirits but find it to be difficult due to the lack of accessibility features. Michelle and I met with the president of the new Entertainment Consumers Network (www.theeca.com) and discussed ways we can cross promote and support each other. Check them out, I'm impress with what they are doing, we can learn a lot from them. I met with several PR reps from companies like Namco and THQ talking about game accessibility. Small world moment of the expo was when I was talking with a Konami PR rep he said he used to work with id Software and they were talking to him about possibly doing a story about someone who made a mod for Doom3 to make it more accessible to the hard of hearing. I said, "That guy was me!" It's a small world in the game industry. We met so many people and the industry and so small, I can't see how going to a show like this isn't valuable. With a little more planning we can make future expo appearances pay off even more. Great job to everyone involved and a huge thank you to Michelle for making it happen. I believe in the coming weeks we should see some articles online about our presence there. -Reid From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Thu Oct 25 11:28:34 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:28:34 -0400 Subject: [games_access] E for All Expo wrap up In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyEMSsA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIyEMSsA Message-ID: <000001c8171b$b54c2000$6501a8c0@Inspiron> That is really cool to hear the things that you said. But mostly it's cool to me is learning about the army representatives that the Army as action interested in recreational games for their veterans which is really cool. Something I'll definitely use in conversations I think it really is a huge point of support because the Army is federal and new war, all American wars are so much a huge topic and these days and American support our soldiers tremendously amount. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Reid Kimball Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:51 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] E for All Expo wrap up Hi all, I wanted to let you know in more detail how I thought our time at E for All was. It was wonderful in my opinion. We met many great people who are sympathetic to our cause and didn't know we existed. Not a minute after I walked into the expo are for the first time did I walk by two people who were in motorized wheelchairs to play a game of Quake4 against Fatal1ty, a professional competitive multiplayer gamer. I hung around and asked them how they came to the show to play against Fatal1ty and they said it was through the Make a Wish foundation. I told them about our group and asked they stop by. The next day they did and their parents were very appreciative of our efforts. We had two women from the "Army Recreation Machine Program" who told us that many Iraq war vets come home with tragic injures and could benefit greatly from using games to lift their spirits but find it to be difficult due to the lack of accessibility features. Michelle and I met with the president of the new Entertainment Consumers Network (www.theeca.com) and discussed ways we can cross promote and support each other. Check them out, I'm impress with what they are doing, we can learn a lot from them. I met with several PR reps from companies like Namco and THQ talking about game accessibility. Small world moment of the expo was when I was talking with a Konami PR rep he said he used to work with id Software and they were talking to him about possibly doing a story about someone who made a mod for Doom3 to make it more accessible to the hard of hearing. I said, "That guy was me!" It's a small world in the game industry. We met so many people and the industry and so small, I can't see how going to a show like this isn't valuable. With a little more planning we can make future expo appearances pay off even more. Great job to everyone involved and a huge thank you to Michelle for making it happen. I believe in the coming weeks we should see some articles online about our presence there. -Reid _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Thu Oct 25 11:33:19 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:33:19 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkLysA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkLysA Message-ID: <000101c8171c$5ebb8590$6501a8c0@Inspiron> I'm kind of still on the project for top-secret funny thing may actually called me back to talk about keeping the accessibility functions I guess they didn't want me to waste seven months of my life good thing. That's all I'm working on a project is the accessibility user interface and controls. David actually wanted them to follow my lead in the last meeting so I think David is full on board with this accessible feature for the game. www.Acclaim.com project top-secret. Robert is involved in heavily. :-) Anyway as I can ask David if he wants to sponsor or claim could sponsor a booth that would get even more recognition to the game I am making with acclaim that it's going to be accessible. Just let me know how I need to put it in writing and what I need to ask for please? And if I should ask David or acclaim most likely David. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of hinn at uiuc.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:42 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth Ok...some really, really bad news. So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. So much to think about...eee.... Michelle ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Thu Oct 25 11:35:52 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:35:52 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEMSsA References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwEMSsA Message-ID: <000201c8171c$ba07b6d0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> If that's the worst case scenario it sound like none of us would actually make it without those free passes. Certainly not mean. I'm not sure if that sounds possible but to have a booth set up in a different location how would we give people the traffic to something like a hotel room that's what it sounds like. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Eelke Folmer Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:23 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC Booth Hi Michelle, I think we should start thinking about fundraising. 8000 dollars however, is a lot of money to raise. But we need structural funding if we want to continue doing what we did in the past. Maybe we should discuss some strategies. Do we need to decide on a booth before we get the acceptance/ rejection on our GDC proposals (when is that exactly)? I think we should start thinking about a worst case / best case scenario for this year's GDC. Worst case none of our proposals is accepted and we have no booth and hence no one get a pass. What can we still do in such a situation? (we could still hand out flyers for those that go anyway), maybe demo our stuff at another location close to GDC? We can still organize SIG meetings right? the location we were at last time e.g the Hall way in the north halls, those big tables would it be possible to demo some stuff there for lets say an hour? I think we should also start thinking about what I think Eitan suggested to organize an indie game competition with the sole focus on creating an accessible game. Maybe for next years GDC we could present these at Jonathan Blow's experimental game workshop? cheers Eelke On 10/24/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: > Ok...some really, really bad news. > > So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. > > Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). > > Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. > > If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. > > I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. > > So much to think about...eee.... > > Michelle > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Thu Oct 25 11:38:59 2007 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:38:59 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth support from Acclaim In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkLysA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkLysA Message-ID: <000301c8171d$293af800$6501a8c0@Inspiron> On what I said earlier about David Perry and our project top-secret with www.acclaim.com to get a sponsor if they gave us money for a booth and it turns out that it's our best investment decided here for a booth I think that's very important first to decide, I don't know if the game will have a prototype ready by February but I doubt it seriously, I'm sure I could get a copy of the to the plate. I'm working on the UI and the controls accessibility now with the company team. On a sidenote does anyone know how I can get program information from people like DragonDictate and Jaws so that the programmers developers coming to the Project for Acclaim top-secret I'm working on will have programming information to go off of or do I have to just call the company? Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of hinn at uiuc.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:42 PM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth Ok...some really, really bad news. So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put things into perspective. Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) ) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about before major $$$ is due. If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth $$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are going to need to work our collective butts off for this. So much to think about...eee.... Michelle ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Oct 25 13:32:36 2007 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:32:36 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC Booth In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20071024223220.03e58cf0@po12.mit.edu> References: <20071024114146.AWV33970@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <836db6300710241923n12c6cc3flc289b134088cbc68@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20071024223220.03e58cf0@po12.mit.edu> Message-ID: Yes, there's a lot to think about an here are my main reactions right now: (1) We won't know how many or which talks are accepted until December. So that really sucks given that the conference is in February this year. (2) Accessible game jam -- good idea but this is a GDC 2009 thing -- there's absolutely no way we could get this going in time and there's no way the GDC people could even help us promo it in time. This would be a "we'd do ONLY this" kind of thing for GDC 2008 and we needed to start a year ago. I mean don't get me wrong -- I really like the idea. It's just a "no way" thing given what I know about CMP and how many people from the SIG would actually be involved in the planning when push comes to shove. This doesn't mean we can't "announce" it at GDC 2008 for GDC 2009 -- that would be a really smart thing to do. A nice flier and talking it up would be ideal and DonationCoder that sponsored our last competition can probably provide the web hosting and game submissions system again for us. If we could get it as even ONE decicated Indie Award for IGF, that would be cool too. Lots of variables. (3) Indie Games Summit -- I am working on a proposal for this as well as the Serious Games stuff. The proposals deadlines have passed but Indie just contacted me yesterday to ask more info about the indie post mortem I wrote them about and I need to call Ben because this whole pneumonia/kidney crap hasn't made my life very easy lately! :) (4) Passes: We have ONE roundtable and ONE meet and greet (the hour session near the IGDA booth). So that's where we are right now. This is what the IGDA could get for us (for all SIGs). Things are tight this year. So we are at TWO passes for the whole SIG at this moment (No...please don't ask me who gets the second pass -- one is given to SIG chairs -- the other I'm saving at the moment until we have a better idea of our proposal acceptances. Please NO campaigning right now -- I know EVERYONE wants to go but I can't promise out passes yet until we know what our true situation is) (5) Booth alternatives -- I am doing a conference call tomorrow with CMP to talk about alternatives to the booth. Yeah, at $8000...yow. What was cool (for us) at E for All was that it was small and we were different and we could grab lots of people. The GDC booth is definitely a different story and a different audience. At tomorrow's conference call, we're going to talk about having a table somewhere for, say, one day and how much THAT would cost (we are still in the thousands). There are a few other options too. All isn't lost but yeah...we need to worry about manning the booth versus doing talks (keeping in mind that our talks have traditionally been VERY poorly attended) Ok, that's all I can think of at the moment -- let's keep the conversation going! Michelle >Hi everyone, > >First, let me say great job to everyone who worked at the E for All >booth, I think we did a really great job and got a lot of good press >as a result. > >That said, before we start fundraising like crazy for a booth at >GDC, I'd like to ask exactly why we are doing this. Don't get me >wrong, a booth would be a great idea if we had real funding and >manpower, but as we don't I am not sure this makes tons of sense. > >We are trying to get a booth so we can A) get press and thereby >impress on people the need to make accessible games, and B) so we >convince game developers that they should make games, right? >However, if we have a small booth in a corner it will be hard to do >either, and with stiffer (than E for All) competition from other >booths we'll have trouble attracting attention. Furthermore, manning >a booth will be very problematic, as we'll have to take time out of >going to talks, which I know we all want to do. > >I think a much better way to spend our time is the following: > >1. We all attend and go to talks (like we want to), and simply chat >up the accessibility angle as much as possible with people we meet. >We'll actually end up talking to more people, and we'll be able to >pick and choose who we talk to. Furthermore, we could make a slick >website, print up some business cards with that site on it, and hand >it out to attendees and press. > >2. We give as many talks as possible. I know the deadline for >submission has passed, but Ben Sawyer still hasn't finished putting >together Serious Games, and I'm sure we can do something there. >Talks are more valuable than booths because we can really state our >case, and the people who attend those talks are much more likely to >internalize what we're saying. Maybe we can also get a session like >last time where we show off the different controllers. > >3. As Eelke mentioned, I think an accessible game jam would be >extremely valuable. We can do it as part of GDC where we do it for >prestige, or we can just talk it up at GDC and have people do it >afterwards, and offer some sort of cash award. It's cheaper, we'll >get more attention, AND we'll get accessible games at it. > >Whew. Ok, those are my thoughts. Feel free to try to convince me of >otherwise, I welcome opposing opinions. > >Cheers, >Eitan > >At 10:23 PM 10/24/2007, Eelke Folmer wrote: >>Hi Michelle, >> >>I think we should start thinking about fundraising. 8000 dollars >>however, is a lot of money to raise. But we need structural funding if >>we want to continue doing what we did in the past. Maybe we should >>discuss some strategies. Do we need to decide on a booth before we get >>the acceptance/ rejection on our GDC proposals (when is that exactly)? >> >>I think we should start thinking about a worst case / best case >>scenario for this year's GDC. Worst case none of our proposals is >>accepted and we have no booth and hence no one get a pass. What can we >>still do in such a situation? (we could still hand out flyers for >>those that go anyway), maybe demo our stuff at another location close >>to GDC? We can still organize SIG meetings right? the location we were >>at last time e.g the Hall way in the north halls, those big tables >>would it be possible to demo some stuff there for lets say an hour? I >>think we should also start thinking about what I think Eitan suggested >>to organize an indie game competition with the sole focus on creating >>an accessible game. Maybe for next years GDC we could present these at >>Jonathan Blow's experimental game workshop? >> >>cheers Eelke >> >> >> >>On 10/24/07, hinn at uiuc.edu wrote: >>> Ok...some really, really bad news. >>> >>> So we've already learned that a "free" booth at an expo only >>>means the physical space and that at the end of the whole thing we >>>were talking around $3000 for the additional costs (they kept >>>building up all week). But the "free" was a $5000 discount to put >>>things into perspective. >>> >>> Now I hear from the GDC people...a 10x10 booth (note: this is >>>half the size we had at E for All but it was the original space we >>>were supposed to have -- thank you people who did not show up! :) >>>) runs $5400. And, yes, that means ONLY the physical space. They >>>are estimating a similar number ($3000) in addition to the $5400 >>>for a completed booth (which is required and which is everything >>>from carpet to insurance to electricity ($$ by the voltage). >>> >>> Whoa. I threw back a question their way about the deadline for >>>saying "yes/no" so we know how much time we are talking about >>>before major $$$ is due. >>> >>> If we are going to seriously pull this off? We need some people >>>who will seriously work with me to help raise this cash (not to >>>mention working the booth at the actual conference). This doesn't >>>mean just raising questions like "what about Microsoft?" -- this >>>means actively asking any/all contacts you have about major booth >>>$$ sponsorship. So...Not just me doing this. I still have money to >>>raise to retrograde sponsor us for last week and am dealing with a >>>bad pneumonia and teaching all at the same time. >>> >>> I know the booth sounded like a really good idea but now we need >>>to really think if this is a good enough idea that is worth >>>raising around $8000 for? I think $8000 is possible but we are >>>going to need to work our collective butts off for this. >>> >>> So much to think about...eee.... >>> >>> Michelle >>> ....................................... >>> these are mediocre times and people are >>> losing hope. it's hard for many people >>> to believe that there are extraordinary >>> things inside themselves, as well as >> > others. i hope you can keep an open >>> mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>> ....................................... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Thu Oct 25 14:56:41 2007 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:56:41 +0100 Subject: [games_access] One Handed "Access Controller" finds a manufacturer Message-ID: <029201c81738$c905ff40$0202a8c0@oneswitch> Great news via BenHeck.com: http://benheck.com/10-24-2007/benhecks-new-single-handed-access-controller-revealed A one handed controller for Xbox 360, PS2 and PS3 in pre-production for manufacture by eDimensional.com Get in touch with e-Dimensional here: access at eDimensional.com for more info or to purchase one. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk via: GASIG Blog: http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/access-controller-finds-manufacturer.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: