From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Aug 1 06:32:46 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:32:46 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. Message-ID: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Hello Michelle and all, I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, especially now with the disease). Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out editing the wiki. I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself (sketchy version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all follow the GDC guidelines for submissions it should make the process smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. Have a nice weekend, Kind regards Thomas From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Aug 1 06:34:56 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:34:56 +0200 Subject: [games_access] test, please ignore Message-ID: is this thing on? From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Aug 1 06:45:28 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 05:45:28 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Thanks Thomas! What a relief! Thank you so much! I've been getting pumped full of IV antibiotics and all kinds of stuff to try and get this under control. There's a rather alarming documentary on the disease at: http://www.openeyepictures.com/underourskin/index.html I could hardly watch the trailer because I am so freaked out that we didn't catch it early enough (every day matters with this thing). So, Thomas, I absolutely don't mind you stepping in to assist AT ALL. Perhaps you could help sort out some ideas beyond where I am now (see below). I think that I have three solid ones that I think will get accepted but I need some people to commit to those sessions now so that I have descriptions of EXACTLY what tech talk solutions we'll have, etc etc. So people -- now is not the time to ignore the call -- these are our GDC passes for this next year!! Please let both Thomas and I know, off list, which ones you want to help out with as I'll need to get bio info, etc for when I put them into the system. Thomas -- I'll send you my files sometime today or tomorrow so that people can read and give feedback on them. Luckily I have three that are almost done (see below) before this happened so I feel pretty confident that we'll be able to get this done with no one spending days at a time awake (me..hehe). So... To be brief (since I still can hardly type), my plan was to put in the (1 Accessibility Arcade again only updated, (2) put together an Accessibility 101 session where people could get a "crash course" in an hour (I'm basing this on the feedback we are now getting that people want us to explain accessibility more after seeing the arcade), and (3) a "tech talk" panel on solutions for programmers (this is the Advanced course for accessibility for those who complain that we don't give them solutions). So those are the three that I am focusing in on for my part of the writing and planning and they are mostly done - just need editing. What other suggestions do people have for other sessions? What suggestions do people have for "must haves" in the arcade this year (companies to sponsor us, devices to show, etc)? Who wants to be on the "tech talk" panel and what will you talk about? This should be about 3-4 people giving super fast "solutions that work" demos along with the technical bits behind it. For a fourth option, we could try to put together a "community" panel with those with disabilities talking about their experiences, etc. This last one is going to be hard to get accepted so if there's enough interest in it from the list, we need to really make that write up spectacular. I said this because I know now how conservative GDC is becoming the bigger it gets. But if someone wants to take the community idea and have a go at putting it together, we definitely should. I can help on that one but I'm hoping someone else (Mark Bartlet? This might be up your alley!) can sketch out the plan (who would be a part of it, why it's an important session to be at, etc, etc). Ok, back to not typing. That was an impressive amount for me given my track record lately... M >Hello Michelle and all, > >I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of >the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have >asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) > >(Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I >just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, >especially now with the disease). > >Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) >and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out >editing the wiki. > >I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't >have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself >(sketchy version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all >follow the GDC guidelines for submissions it should make the process >smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). > >Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by >August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. > >Have a nice weekend, > >Kind regards >Thomas > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ioo at ablegamers.com Fri Aug 1 09:14:38 2008 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:14:38 -0400 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Sure, I can see what I can do with number 4 Mark Sent from a handset. On Aug 1, 2008, at 6:45 AM, "d. michelle hinn" wrote: > Thanks Thomas! > > What a relief! Thank you so much! I've been getting pumped full of > IV antibiotics and all kinds of stuff to try and get this under > control. There's a rather alarming documentary on the disease at: > > http://www.openeyepictures.com/underourskin/index.html > > I could hardly watch the trailer because I am so freaked out that we > didn't catch it early enough (every day matters with this thing). > So, Thomas, I absolutely don't mind you stepping in to assist AT > ALL. Perhaps you could help sort out some ideas beyond where I am > now (see below). I think that I have three solid ones that I think > will get accepted but I need some people to commit to those sessions > now so that I have descriptions of EXACTLY what tech talk solutions > we'll have, etc etc. So people -- now is not the time to ignore the > call -- these are our GDC passes for this next year!! Please let > both Thomas and I know, off list, which ones you want to help out > with as I'll need to get bio info, etc for when I put them into the > system. > > Thomas -- I'll send you my files sometime today or tomorrow so that > people can read and give feedback on them. Luckily I have three that > are almost done (see below) before this happened so I feel pretty > confident that we'll be able to get this done with no one spending > days at a time awake (me..hehe). > > So... > > To be brief (since I still can hardly type), my plan was to put in > the (1 Accessibility Arcade again only updated, (2) put together an > Accessibility 101 session where people could get a "crash course" in > an hour (I'm basing this on the feedback we are now getting that > people want us to explain accessibility more after seeing the > arcade), and (3) a "tech talk" panel on solutions for programmers > (this is the Advanced course for accessibility for those who > complain that we don't give them solutions). So those are the three > that I am focusing in on for my part of the writing and planning and > they are mostly done - just need editing. > > What other suggestions do people have for other sessions? > > What suggestions do people have for "must haves" in the arcade this > year (companies to sponsor us, devices to show, etc)? > > Who wants to be on the "tech talk" panel and what will you talk > about? This should be about 3-4 people giving super fast "solutions > that work" demos along with the technical bits behind it. > > For a fourth option, we could try to put together a "community" > panel with those with disabilities talking about their experiences, > etc. > > This last one is going to be hard to get accepted so if there's > enough interest in it from the list, we need to really make that > write up spectacular. I said this because I know now how > conservative GDC is becoming the bigger it gets. But if someone > wants to take the community idea and have a go at putting it > together, we definitely should. I can help on that one but I'm > hoping someone else (Mark Bartlet? This might be up your alley!) can > sketch out the plan (who would be a part of it, why it's an > important session to be at, etc, etc). > > Ok, back to not typing. That was an impressive amount for me given > my track record lately... > > M > >> Hello Michelle and all, >> >> I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of >> the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle >> (have asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her >> writing) >> >> (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, >> I just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, >> especially now with the disease). >> >> Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) >> and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out >> editing the wiki. >> >> I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle >> won't have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so >> myself (sketchy version up right now, easier to write offline). If >> we all follow the GDC guidelines for submissions it should make the >> process smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). > >> >> Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by >> August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. >> >> Have a nice weekend, >> >> Kind regards >> Thomas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From g at soundmindz.com Fri Aug 1 12:28:28 2008 From: g at soundmindz.com (Greg Rahn) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:28:28 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? SOUNDMINDZ Music & Sound Design www.GregRahn.net Greg Rahn 707-643-8519 cell 707-246-4922 Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: > Hello Michelle and all, > > I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of > the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have > asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) > > (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I > just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, > especially now with the disease). > > Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) > and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out > editing the wiki. > > I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't > have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself > (sketchy version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all > follow the GDC guidelines for submissions it should make the process > smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). > > Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by > August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. > > Have a nice weekend, > > Kind regards > Thomas > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From sandra_uhling at web.de Sat Aug 2 10:14:02 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 16:14:02 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2009 wiki link and wiki log in Message-ID: <376548687@web.de> Hello, I think the side is this one: http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 Do we need to log in to see more ? Here is a short information about getting an account for wiki: You can find the long version here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_log_in First: Registering an IGDA account: Register an account with the IGDA: http://www.igda.org/join/ Select a desired account type: IGDA Membership, Student Membership, or a Free User Account Second: Setting up your account When the account is created, go to the IGDA website, log in and click the "Enable wiki account" link Third: When your wiki login is enabled, you can login using your forum username (But this did not work for my user name, and on the administrator side is no email address) Regards, Sandra Uhling www.MachineDance.de ________________________________________________________________________ Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Aug 2 12:57:42 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:57:42 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2009 wiki link and wiki log in In-Reply-To: <376548687@web.de> References: <376548687@web.de> Message-ID: There are the four proposals I posted in email to the list yesterday but we don't have them up on the wiki. For now use the wiki to add in new ideas for proposals while we fill in the ones we already have ready to go. Thanks -- will either of you be going to GDC? Sorry my communication has been slow -- I now have the symptoms of meningitis (the next stage of lyme) so they are treating me for that...plus a kidney infection, strep throat, and due to the strength of the antibiotics...now my body is fight back and yeast has overgrown in my lungs and esophigus. Good times... >Hello, > >I think the side is this one: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 > >Do we need to log in to see more ? > >Here is a short information about getting an account for wiki: >You can find the long version here: >http://www.igda.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_log_in > > >First: Registering an IGDA account: >Register an account with the IGDA: http://www.igda.org/join/ >Select a desired account type: IGDA Membership, >Student Membership, or a Free User Account > >Second: Setting up your account >When the account is created, go to the IGDA >website, log in and click the "Enable wiki >account" link > >Third: >When your wiki login is enabled, you can login using your forum username > >(But this did not work for my user name, and on >the administrator side is no email address) > >Regards, >Sandra Uhling >www.MachineDance.de >________________________________________________________________________ >Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: >http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From g at soundmindz.com Sat Aug 2 17:30:34 2008 From: g at soundmindz.com (Greg Rahn) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:30:34 -0700 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2009 wiki link and wiki log in In-Reply-To: References: <376548687@web.de> Message-ID: <76230A77-9822-422C-AA9F-2FF1554F5BB0@soundmindz.com> Thanks for the wiki link. Michelle, so sorry to hear what you are going thru with the Lyme disease. A friend of mine had it and it was no picnic, so I admire your perseverance. You previously asked me if I'd be willing to participate in something at GDC and I said yes. Then I sent you the description f the session I gave in Seattle and offered to do that at GDC. Not sure if you got it, cause I didn't hear back and didn't see it mentioned in the four proposals, or maybe you didn't think it would be a good fit, which I am totally ok with. I can resend or post on the Wiki if you want, or, you don't need me to do it for your track, just let me know and I will probably submit it for the Casual Games Summit, or Audio Track. Either way, I'm happy to join a panel if you need me. Greg ???????????????????????????????????????????????? SOUNDMINDZ Music & Sound Design www.GregRahn.net Greg Rahn 707-643-8519 cell 707-246-4922 Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic On Aug 2, 2008, at 9:57 AM, d. michelle hinn wrote: > There are the four proposals I posted in email to the list yesterday > but we don't have them up on the wiki. For now use the wiki to add > in new ideas for proposals while we fill in the ones we already have > ready to go. > > Thanks -- will either of you be going to GDC? > > Sorry my communication has been slow -- I now have the symptoms of > meningitis (the next stage of lyme) so they are treating me for > that...plus a kidney infection, strep throat, and due to the > strength of the antibiotics...now my body is fight back and yeast > has overgrown in my lungs and esophigus. Good times... > >> Hello, >> >> I think the side is this one: http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 >> >> Do we need to log in to see more ? >> >> Here is a short information about getting an account for wiki: >> You can find the long version here: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_log_in >> >> >> First: Registering an IGDA account: >> Register an account with the IGDA: http://www.igda.org/join/ >> Select a desired account type: IGDA Membership, Student Membership, >> or a Free User Account >> >> Second: Setting up your account >> When the account is created, go to the IGDA website, log in and >> click the "Enable wiki account" link >> >> Third: >> When your wiki login is enabled, you can login using your forum >> username >> >> (But this did not work for my user name, and on the administrator >> side is no email address) >> >> Regards, >> Sandra Uhling >> www.MachineDance.de >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: >> http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at uiuc.edu Sat Aug 2 19:03:44 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:03:44 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 2009 wiki link and wiki log in In-Reply-To: <76230A77-9822-422C-AA9F-2FF1554F5BB0@soundmindz.com> References: <376548687@web.de> <76230A77-9822-422C-AA9F-2FF1554F5BB0@soundmindz.com> Message-ID: That's right that was before my shut down...I found it. Yeah, I think it could be a great proposal. Mind taking a stab at it using the formatting thomas had for what has to be in a proposal? I think that is a proposal idea that just might work. We've done audio sessions but let's try something with a different angle...something that make the case for making really cool audio-only games for gamers who want more ways to play games. I'll help edit anyone's ideas. The first four are the ones that I mostly have figured out. I'll need to get the GDC presenter info soon so I'll email everyone about that. I'm glad to have you on board -- i just cannot believe I got lymes disease...Thank all for helping out and the reminder -- with high fevers comes I have t o stay that the loss of short term memory -- and I mean SHORT. I'll need a pen, start to stand up , and have no idea why I stood up or what I was supposed to get -- it trumps my usual everday "wait...what did I come to this store to get? Oy... so, please put it up and then people can add in their ideas. Once we have everyone's info I'll do the final touches and zap em into the system. Thanks! Michelle >Thanks for the wiki link. Michelle, so sorry to >hear what you are going thru with the Lyme >disease. A friend of mine had it and it was no >picnic, so I admire your perseverance. >You previously asked me if I'd be willing to >participate in something at GDC and I said yes. >Then I sent you the description f the session I >gave in Seattle and offered to do that at GDC. >Not sure if you got it, cause I didn't hear back >and didn't see it mentioned in the four >proposals, or maybe you didn't think it would >be a good fit, which I am totally ok with. I >can resend or post on the Wiki if you want, or, >you don't need me to do it for your track, just >let me know and I will probably submit it for >the Casual Games Summit, or Audio Track. >Either way, I'm happy to join a panel if you need me. > > >Greg >???????????????????????????????????????????????? >SOUNDMINDZ >Music & Sound Design >www.GregRahn.net >Greg Rahn >707-643-8519 >cell 707-246-4922 >Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic > >On Aug 2, 2008, at 9:57 AM, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >>There are the four proposals I posted in email >>to the list yesterday but we don't have them up >>on the wiki. For now use the wiki to add in new >>ideas for proposals while we fill in the ones >>we already have ready to go. >> >>Thanks -- will either of you be going to GDC? >> >>Sorry my communication has been slow -- I now >>have the symptoms of meningitis (the next stage >>of lyme) so they are treating me for >>that...plus a kidney infection, strep throat, >>and due to the strength of the >>antibiotics...now my body is fight back and >>yeast has overgrown in my lungs and esophigus. >>Good times... >> >>>Hello, >>> >>>I think the side is this one: >>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 >>> >>>Do we need to log in to see more ? >>> >>>Here is a short information about getting an account for wiki: >>>You can find the long version here: >>>http://www.igda.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_log_in >>> >>> >>>First: Registering an IGDA account: >>>Register an account with the IGDA: http://www.igda.org/join/ >>>Select a desired account type: IGDA >>>Membership, Student Membership, or a Free User >>>Account >>> >>>Second: Setting up your account >>>When the account is created, go to the IGDA >>>website, log in and click the "Enable wiki >>>account" link >>> >>>Third: >>>When your wiki login is enabled, you can login using your forum username >>> >>>(But this did not work for my user name, and >>>on the administrator side is no email address) >>> >>>Regards, >>>Sandra Uhling >>>www.MachineDance.de >>>________________________________________________________________________ >>>Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: >>>http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Sun Aug 3 12:33:47 2008 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 12:33:47 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project top secret. Finalists announced. Robflorio one of them In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkMjAA References: <376548687@web.de> <76230A77-9822-422C-AA9F-2FF1554F5BB0@soundmindz.com> AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkMjAA Message-ID: <002a01c8f586$b3f17df0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> http://www.onrpg.com/games_news/view/1304 http://pc.ign.com/articles/883/883410p1.html http://www.dperry.com/archives/news/dp_blog/top_secret_proj/ http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=498583 http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-06-23/20080623224615070.shtml Put a search on Google Project Top-Secret finalists announced, and you will find my name Robert Florio. I did not win the contest, but I did win something else, it was a huge headache and a huge learning process in the process of developing the accessible features, but I'm happy I got my name out there even more . the whole world knows I was one of the finalists. This is so exciting. Right now I have a freak injury and lost a lot of blood, so I am lying in bed all week hoping to heal and hoping I don't need minor surgery Thursday... Robert www.RobertFlorio.com From thomas at pininteractive.com Sun Aug 3 18:46:38 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 00:46:38 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Hi Greg, Michelle and others the specific wiki page we're talking about is this http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com site, and I'll start inserting the stuff I get from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now (Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. Also I'll edit the outline to fit the content outline Michelle proposed My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). Kind regards Thomas On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: > I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? > ???????????????????????????????????????????????? > SOUNDMINDZ > Music & Sound Design > www.GregRahn.net > Greg Rahn > 707-643-8519 > cell 707-246-4922 > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic > > On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: > >> Hello Michelle and all, >> >> I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of >> the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle >> (have asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her >> writing) >> >> (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, >> I just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, >> especially now with the disease). >> >> Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) >> and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out >> editing the wiki. >> >> I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle >> won't have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so >> myself (sketchy version up right now, easier to write offline). If >> we all follow the GDC guidelines for submissions it should make the >> process smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). >> >> Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by >> August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. >> >> Have a nice weekend, >> >> Kind regards >> Thomas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Aug 3 17:19:41 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 16:19:41 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: <496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> <496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake up tomorrow! Yes, I definitely pegged you for proposal #3 along with Eelke and Reid (maybe Richard too? Richard -- are you out there?). That will be in the Programming and IGDA tracks (cross-listed). We're getting there! Thanks to everyone who has helped out so far! I cannot thank you enough -- it's nice to know that, as a group and as individuals, we're so supportive of each other, especially when there's a health or family emergency. So far (I apologize if I'm missing anyone -- my brain is mush at the moment) I have the following people interested in participating in GDC 2009: Michelle (me) Mark Stephanie Thomas Richard Reid Eelke Kevin Barrie (Barrie -- email me off list for additional info) Eitan Others? Dimitris? Giannis? Anyone else? Please do not be offended if I left you off this list -- it's off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my email for others! But feel free to speak up and remind me in the meantime!! Michelle >Hi Greg, Michelle and others > >the specific wiki page we're talking about is this >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 > >I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com >site, and I'll start inserting the stuff I get >from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now >(Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. >Also I'll edit the outline to fit the content >outline Michelle proposed > >My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). > >Kind regards >Thomas > > > > >On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: > >>I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? >>???????????????????????????????????????????????? >>SOUNDMINDZ >>Music & Sound Design >>www.GregRahn.net >>Greg Rahn >>707-643-8519 >>cell 707-246-4922 >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic >> >>On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: >> >>>Hello Michelle and all, >>> >>>I want to help out preparing for GDC but I >>>don't know the status of the content so far, >>>i.e what people have submitted to Michelle >>>(have asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme >>>disease is stopping her writing) >>> >>>(Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some >>>action managing this, I just want to do >>>something so you don't end up doing it >>>yourself, especially now with the disease). >>> >>>Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this >>>week (or last week?) and as Michelle has the >>>Lyme disease I have offered to help out >>>editing the wiki. >>> >>>I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the >>>wiki so Michelle won't have to manage it all >>>by herself. I have begun to do so myself >>>(sketchy version up right now, easier to write >>>offline). If we all follow the GDC guidelines >>>for submissions it should make the process >>>smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). >>> >>>Final deadline is August 11, so if all could >>>please upload texts by August 6 it gives me a >>>few days to edit. Thank you. >>> >>>Have a nice weekend, >>> >>>Kind regards >>>Thomas >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From thomas at pininteractive.com Sun Aug 3 20:05:31 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 02:05:31 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <0D6AC8A7-155C-44C9-AC44-D1BA0F4C1913@pininteractive.com> Hi Michelle, I think I'll keep working on this instead of sleeping, otherwise I will just have a hard time to sleep :) On 1 aug 2008, at 12.45, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Thanks Thomas! > You're welcome :) > What a relief! Thank you so much! I've been getting pumped full of > IV antibiotics and all kinds of stuff to try and get this under > control. There's a rather alarming documentary on the disease at: > > http://www.openeyepictures.com/underourskin/index.html Have to look at that documentary later as I'm on mobile connection at the moment > I could hardly watch the trailer because I am so freaked out that we > didn't catch it early enough (every day matters with this thing). > So, Thomas, I absolutely don't mind you stepping in to assist AT ALL. OK sounds good! I'm at the computer anyway since I'm working on a game project this summer. > Perhaps you could help sort out some ideas beyond where I am now > (see below). I think that I have three solid ones that I think will > get accepted but I need some people to commit to those sessions now > so that I have descriptions of EXACTLY what tech talk solutions > we'll have, etc etc. So people -- now is not the time to ignore the > call -- these are our GDC passes for this next year!! Please let > both Thomas and I know, off list, which ones you want to help out > with as I'll need to get bio info, etc for when I put them into the > system. I agree > > Thomas -- I'll send you my files sometime today or tomorrow so that > people can read and give feedback on them. Luckily I have three that > are almost done (see below) before this happened so I feel pretty > confident that we'll be able to get this done with no one spending > days at a time awake (me..hehe). > Good > (1 Accessibility Arcade again only updated, > (2) put together an Accessibility 101 session where people could get > a "crash course" in an hour (I'm basing this on the feedback we are > now getting that people want us to explain accessibility more after > seeing the arcade), and > (3) a "tech talk" panel on solutions for programmers (this is the > Advanced course for accessibility for those who complain that we > don't give them solutions). OK, outlined on the wiki now > > What suggestions do people have for "must haves" in the arcade this > year (companies to sponsor us, devices to show, etc)? > I'll see what I can come up with > Who wants to be on the "tech talk" panel and what will you talk > about? This should be about 3-4 people giving super fast "solutions > that work" demos along with the technical bits behind it. > me :) > For a fourth option, we could try to put together a "community" > panel with those with disabilities talking about their experiences, > etc. > > This last one is going to be hard to get accepted so if there's > enough interest in it from the list, we need to really make that > write up spectacular. I said this because I know now how > conservative GDC is becoming the bigger it gets. But if someone > wants to take the community idea and have a go at putting it > together, we definitely should. I can help on that one but I'm > hoping someone else (Mark Bartlet? This might be up your alley!) can > sketch out the plan (who would be a part of it, why it's an > important session to be at, etc, etc). > OK Mark, feel free to edit the wiki with a fourth session! Kind regards Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Sun Aug 3 20:10:37 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 02:10:37 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com><496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: cool On 3 aug 2008, at 23.19, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake > up tomorrow From thomas at pininteractive.com Sun Aug 3 20:57:46 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 02:57:46 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com><496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: New outline is online according to the topics Michelle mentioned (will fill in more tomorrow) also, please note, at the bottom of the page, there is a Template to use when adding your own presentations, based upon the GDC guidelines, but with some modifications to fit our group effort Michelle, as you are the one with most routine on GDC proposals in the group (I think); is there anything else that should be in the Template as to make the process as smooth as possible? Kind regards Thomas On 4 aug 2008, at 02.10, Thomas Westin wrote: > cool > > On 3 aug 2008, at 23.19, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >> Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake >> up tomorrow > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Aug 4 02:32:20 2008 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:32:20 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com><496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <004c01c8f5fb$d8f30220$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hiya, Yep, I'm here!!! I was thinking about doing something based on the Sound Alternative article (http://www.accessibility.nl/games/index.php?pagefile=soundalternative) but instead of only for auditory disabilities, taking a look at fun alternatives for all target groups that already exist in games... So something like: fun examples of alternatives for sound that already exist in games (see article) fun examples of alternatives for visuals that already exist in games (examples from Michelle's & Richard's Austin lecture) fun examples of alternatives for controls that already exist in games (one/two/... button control schemes, types of controls (gesture control (wii, headtracker, etc.), brainwavecontrollers), etc.) (fun examples of alternatives for ... that already exist in games - help, cheats, controls, etc.. - mmm tough) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + lecture would then be something like : "Fun Alternatives For Accessibility Issues That Already Exist In Games" (or something like it) Maybe this could be something for the #3 tech talk, where everyone does one part? But I was also thinking about making the talk more like "Design Solutions For Accessibility Issues That Already Exist In Games", not so much on fun alternatives but more as a listing of accessible solutions that already exist (which is pretty similar but not the same and maybe better), which would probably fit (part of) the "Game Accessibility 101 Crash Course" too... ? Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "d. michelle hinn" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake up tomorrow! Yes, I definitely pegged you for proposal #3 along with Eelke and Reid (maybe Richard too? Richard -- are you out there?). That will be in the Programming and IGDA tracks (cross-listed). We're getting there! Thanks to everyone who has helped out so far! I cannot thank you enough -- it's nice to know that, as a group and as individuals, we're so supportive of each other, especially when there's a health or family emergency. So far (I apologize if I'm missing anyone -- my brain is mush at the moment) I have the following people interested in participating in GDC 2009: Michelle (me) Mark Stephanie Thomas Richard Reid Eelke Kevin Barrie (Barrie -- email me off list for additional info) Eitan Others? Dimitris? Giannis? Anyone else? Please do not be offended if I left you off this list -- it's off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my email for others! But feel free to speak up and remind me in the meantime!! Michelle >Hi Greg, Michelle and others > >the specific wiki page we're talking about is this >http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 > >I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com >site, and I'll start inserting the stuff I get >from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now >(Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. >Also I'll edit the outline to fit the content >outline Michelle proposed > >My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). > >Kind regards >Thomas > > > > >On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: > >>I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? >>YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY >>SOUNDMINDZ >>Music & Sound Design >>www.GregRahn.net >>Greg Rahn >>707-643-8519 >>cell 707-246-4922 >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic >> >>On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: >> >>>Hello Michelle and all, >>> >>>I want to help out preparing for GDC but I >>>don't know the status of the content so far, >>>i.e what people have submitted to Michelle >>>(have asked Michelle but I guess the Lyme >>>disease is stopping her writing) >>> >>>(Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some >>>action managing this, I just want to do >>>something so you don't end up doing it >>>yourself, especially now with the disease). >>> >>>Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this >>>week (or last week?) and as Michelle has the >>>Lyme disease I have offered to help out >>>editing the wiki. >>> >>>I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the >>>wiki so Michelle won't have to manage it all >>>by herself. I have begun to do so myself >>>(sketchy version up right now, easier to write >>>offline). If we all follow the GDC guidelines >>>for submissions it should make the process >>>smooth. I have yet to do so for my stuff :). >>> >>>Final deadline is August 11, so if all could >>>please upload texts by August 6 it gives me a >>>few days to edit. Thank you. >>> >>>Have a nice weekend, >>> >>>Kind regards >>>Thomas >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbannick at 7128.com Mon Aug 4 05:39:58 2008 From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 05:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [games_access] Project top secret. Finalists announced. Robflorio one of them Message-ID: <1086.76.119.124.119.1217842798.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Robert, Congratulations! And get well soon so you can continue to make a positive difference. John Bannick From sam at frado.net Mon Aug 4 10:13:34 2008 From: sam at frado.net (Samuel Franco) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel@mail.frado.net> Samuel Franco Dom?nguez Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy. In this page, http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity. I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games. Serious Games is not only about software (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or exergaming. Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example. When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons. Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is asistive technology. I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see the relationship between them? When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn disability) plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health. If you agree with me please let them know. I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea. Thanks games_access-request at igda.org > Send games_access mailing list submissions to > games_access at igda.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > games_access-request at igda.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > games_access-owner at igda.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Introduction (Greg Rahn) > 2. Re: Introduction (d. michelle hinn) > 3. Re: Introduction (Barrie Ellis) > 4. Introduction (John Bannick) > 5. Re: Introduction (Kestrell) > 6. New Breath Clicking Controller (Barrie Ellis) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:47:58 -0700 > From: Greg Rahn > Subject: [games_access] Introduction > To: games_access at igda.org > Message-ID: <74639DF7-2DEA-4038-BF7E-35C69F409656 at soundmindz.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Hi All, > My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I discovered this sig as I > was doing research for a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games > Conference this Friday in Seattle. http://seattle.casualconnect.org/ > > My session started out as Designing Audio Concurrently With Game > Design. (as opposed to "hey let's add sound to our game now that it's > done"). I came across accessibility, and after learning about all that > is going on around accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk to > include this. It sort of of swung the pendulum even further making my > talk more like, Designing Audio AS Game Design... > > Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives and have learned some > things eg; "sight disabled" rather than "blind" etc... > I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can help raise some > awareness about accessibility in the Casual Game space. > > I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you happen to be attending, > be sure to stop by and say hi. > > btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas. > > Cheers, > > Greg > ???????????????????????????????????????????????? > SOUNDMINDZ > Music & Sound Design > www.GregRahn.net > Greg Rahn > 707-643-8519 > cell 707-246-4922 > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:20:46 -0500 > From: "d. michelle hinn" > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" > > Hi Greg -- welcome! I won't be at Casual Games > unfortunately but would you be interested in > joining in with a couple of our audio designer > and closed captioning members and doing a panel > or some such at GDC in San Francisco in March? > We're getting our proposals together now (they > are due next week) so if you are interested, > email me off list at hinn at uiuc.edu so I can get > your info and such into the GDC system. > > We are always looking for new ground to spread > the accessibility word to so it's exciting that > you've found us -- please let others who are > interested know about us. On this list you'll > find researchers, game designers, owners of > accessibility controller shops, journalists, > editors, and much, much more! So, once again, > welcome and please don't hesitate to ask any of > us about ideas, reactions to ideas, etc -- we're > not a shy bunch! > > Michelle > Chairperson, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG (we're > also affiliated with DiGRA, the ECA, and the ESA) > >>Hi All, >>My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I >>discovered this sig as I was doing research for >>a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games >>Conference this Friday in Seattle. >>http://seattle.casualconnect.org/ >> >>My session started out as Designing Audio >>Concurrently With Game Design. (as opposed to >>"hey let's add sound to our game now that it's >>done"). I came across accessibility, and after >>learning about all that is going on around >>accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk >>to include this. It sort of of swung the >>pendulum even further making my talk more like, >>Designing Audio AS Game Design... >> >>Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives >>and have learned some things eg; "sight >>disabled" rather than "blind" etc... >>I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can >>help raise some awareness about accessibility in >>the Casual Game space. >> >>I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you >>happen to be attending, be sure to stop by and >>say hi. >> >>btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Greg >>???????????????????????????????????????????????? >>SOUNDMINDZ >>Music & Sound Design >>www.GregRahn.net >>Greg Rahn >>707-643-8519 >>cell 707-246-4922 >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:48:55 +0100 > From: "Barrie Ellis" > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: <58ef01c8eca0$f1a7af00$9901a8c0 at oneswitch> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Yes - welcome Greg - it's great to have fresh enthusiasm! > > And just to stir up the language debates that do go on for ever! > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ouch/2006/02/blind_or_visually_impaired.html > > Barrie > www.OneSwitch.org.uk > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d. michelle hinn" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:20 AM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction > > > Hi Greg -- welcome! I won't be at Casual Games > unfortunately but would you be interested in > joining in with a couple of our audio designer > and closed captioning members and doing a panel > or some such at GDC in San Francisco in March? > We're getting our proposals together now (they > are due next week) so if you are interested, > email me off list at hinn at uiuc.edu so I can get > your info and such into the GDC system. > > We are always looking for new ground to spread > the accessibility word to so it's exciting that > you've found us -- please let others who are > interested know about us. On this list you'll > find researchers, game designers, owners of > accessibility controller shops, journalists, > editors, and much, much more! So, once again, > welcome and please don't hesitate to ask any of > us about ideas, reactions to ideas, etc -- we're > not a shy bunch! > > Michelle > Chairperson, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG (we're > also affiliated with DiGRA, the ECA, and the ESA) > >>Hi All, >>My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I >>discovered this sig as I was doing research for >>a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games >>Conference this Friday in Seattle. >>http://seattle.casualconnect.org/ >> >>My session started out as Designing Audio >>Concurrently With Game Design. (as opposed to >>"hey let's add sound to our game now that it's >>done"). I came across accessibility, and after >>learning about all that is going on around >>accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk >>to include this. It sort of of swung the >>pendulum even further making my talk more like, >>Designing Audio AS Game Design... >> >>Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives >>and have learned some things eg; "sight >>disabled" rather than "blind" etc... >>I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can >>help raise some awareness about accessibility in >>the Casual Game space. >> >>I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you >>happen to be attending, be sure to stop by and >>say hi. >> >>btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Greg >>YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY >>SOUNDMINDZ >>Music & Sound Design >>www.GregRahn.net >>Greg Rahn >>707-643-8519 >>cell 707-246-4922 >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:20:29 -0400 (EDT) > From: "John Bannick" > Subject: [games_access] Introduction > To: games_access at igda.org > Message-ID: > <1068.76.119.124.119.1216804829.squirrel at webmail.enigami.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Greg, > > It's odd to read your post referring to "Designing Audio Concurrently With > Game Design" at this particular moment. > > My company, 7-128 Software, builds mainstream casual computer games that > are accessible. > > This morning I'm coding a tool for Perkins School for the Blind, here in > Boston, that will let them edit content for some new children's games > we're doing. > > Since some of their employees are blind, I'm including self-voicing and > JAWS screen-reader access in the editor. > > So I'm sitting here waiting for the thing to compile, and browsing various > fora. (I'm a member of the GA SIG.) > > Speaking as someone who's been doing UIs professionally for 30 years and > audio UIs for the past 10 years, the audio part does affect the video > part. It affects how you lay things out. It affects timing issues. It > affects the information architecture. It affect platform choices. And it > affects the time to delivery. > > Speaking as a game developer, the GA SIG and related fora such as > oneswitch, ablegamers, and audyssey make a huge difference in getting > software actually accessible. Aside from raising awareness, they provide > sources of practical information as to what users with special needs want, > what works, what does not work, resources available, and new products. > > Anyway, it's passing strange to read your post while doing exactly what > you're referring to. > > Welcome and good luck at your conference. > > John Bannick > CTO 7-128 Software > www.7128.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:10:45 -0400 > From: "Kestrell" > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction > To: , "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: <004501c8ecc5$84dd57b0$0201000a at Galatea> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > John, > > Wow! This sounds so cool! Are you going to make this accessible editor > available to other blind gamers? It sounds so fascinating! > > And now I feel I really must go subscribe to your games; perhaps next > month > for my birthday present to myself. > > Kes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bannick" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:20 AM > Subject: [games_access] Introduction > > >> Greg, >> >> It's odd to read your post referring to "Designing Audio Concurrently >> With >> Game Design" at this particular moment. >> >> My company, 7-128 Software, builds mainstream casual computer games that >> are accessible. >> >> This morning I'm coding a tool for Perkins School for the Blind, here in >> Boston, that will let them edit content for some new children's games >> we're doing. >> >> Since some of their employees are blind, I'm including self-voicing and >> JAWS screen-reader access in the editor. >> >> So I'm sitting here waiting for the thing to compile, and browsing >> various >> fora. (I'm a member of the GA SIG.) >> >> Speaking as someone who's been doing UIs professionally for 30 years and >> audio UIs for the past 10 years, the audio part does affect the video >> part. It affects how you lay things out. It affects timing issues. It >> affects the information architecture. It affect platform choices. And it >> affects the time to delivery. >> >> Speaking as a game developer, the GA SIG and related fora such as >> oneswitch, ablegamers, and audyssey make a huge difference in getting >> software actually accessible. Aside from raising awareness, they provide >> sources of practical information as to what users with special needs >> want, >> what works, what does not work, resources available, and new products. >> >> Anyway, it's passing strange to read your post while doing exactly what >> you're referring to. >> >> Welcome and good luck at your conference. >> >> John Bannick >> CTO 7-128 Software >> www.7128.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:48:51 +0100 > From: "Barrie Ellis" > Subject: [games_access] New Breath Clicking Controller > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: <5bdf01c8ecca$d9703ea0$9901a8c0 at oneswitch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > This is a fantastic looking device: > > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-breath-clicking-controller.html > > With the inventor offering D.I.Y. advice to people wishing to construct > their own. > > This needs a company to get behind though - as it has so much potential. > > Barrie > www.OneSwitch.org.uk > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > End of games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 > ******************************************** > From foreversublime at hotmail.com Mon Aug 4 11:27:15 2008 From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:27:15 -0400 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel@mail.frado.net> References: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel@mail.frado.net> Message-ID: Hi Samuel, This may sound strange, but "accessibility" still means "fun and casual" to me (for now). Accessibility doesn't specify any benefit different than what non-accessible games give to the average gamer (by that I partially mean that "accessibility" shouldn't have some inherent "disabled people can't have fun" attitude attached towards it). If it were approached from a physical therapy angle then accessibility could be lumped into the medical/health area. A lot of what I see that comes out of accessible gaming is simply better design... or perhaps better design makes things more accessible. Like you I agree accessibility has its place in the Serious Games world. Perhaps it has many places - which could be beneficial because that would simply mean more contacts and a more diversified audience. If this is the case let's not look at this as a problem but rather an opportunity.-Matt > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200> From: sam at frado.net> To: games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14> > Samuel Franco Dom?nguez> > > Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy.> > > In this page,> http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html> there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy> http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf> > There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity.> I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games.> Serious Games is not only about software> (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about> alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or> exergaming.> Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example.> When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and> asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve> or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the> things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons.> Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is> asistive technology.> > I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the> taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see> the relationship between them?> > When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn> disability)> plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not> only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health.> > If you agree with me please let them know.> I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea.> > Thanks> > > > > > > > games_access-request at igda.org> > Send games_access mailing list submissions to> > games_access at igda.org> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> > games_access-request at igda.org> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at> > games_access-owner at igda.org> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> > than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."> >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> > 1. Introduction (Greg Rahn)> > 2. Re: Introduction (d. michelle hinn)> > 3. Re: Introduction (Barrie Ellis)> > 4. Introduction (John Bannick)> > 5. Re: Introduction (Kestrell)> > 6. New Breath Clicking Controller (Barrie Ellis)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:47:58 -0700> > From: Greg Rahn > > Subject: [games_access] Introduction> > To: games_access at igda.org> > Message-ID: <74639DF7-2DEA-4038-BF7E-35C69F409656 at soundmindz.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;> > delsp=yes> >> > Hi All,> > My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I discovered this sig as I> > was doing research for a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games> > Conference this Friday in Seattle. http://seattle.casualconnect.org/> >> > My session started out as Designing Audio Concurrently With Game> > Design. (as opposed to "hey let's add sound to our game now that it's> > done"). I came across accessibility, and after learning about all that> > is going on around accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk to> > include this. It sort of of swung the pendulum even further making my> > talk more like, Designing Audio AS Game Design...> >> > Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives and have learned some> > things eg; "sight disabled" rather than "blind" etc...> > I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can help raise some> > awareness about accessibility in the Casual Game space.> >> > I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you happen to be attending,> > be sure to stop by and say hi.> >> > btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas.> >> > Cheers,> >> > Greg> > ????????????????????????????????????????????????> > SOUNDMINDZ> > Music & Sound Design> > www.GregRahn.net> > Greg Rahn> > 707-643-8519> > cell 707-246-4922> > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:20:46 -0500> > From: "d. michelle hinn" > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"> >> > Hi Greg -- welcome! I won't be at Casual Games> > unfortunately but would you be interested in> > joining in with a couple of our audio designer> > and closed captioning members and doing a panel> > or some such at GDC in San Francisco in March?> > We're getting our proposals together now (they> > are due next week) so if you are interested,> > email me off list at hinn at uiuc.edu so I can get> > your info and such into the GDC system.> >> > We are always looking for new ground to spread> > the accessibility word to so it's exciting that> > you've found us -- please let others who are> > interested know about us. On this list you'll> > find researchers, game designers, owners of> > accessibility controller shops, journalists,> > editors, and much, much more! So, once again,> > welcome and please don't hesitate to ask any of> > us about ideas, reactions to ideas, etc -- we're> > not a shy bunch!> >> > Michelle> > Chairperson, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG (we're> > also affiliated with DiGRA, the ECA, and the ESA)> >> >>Hi All,> >>My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I> >>discovered this sig as I was doing research for> >>a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games> >>Conference this Friday in Seattle.> >>http://seattle.casualconnect.org/> >>> >>My session started out as Designing Audio> >>Concurrently With Game Design. (as opposed to> >>"hey let's add sound to our game now that it's> >>done"). I came across accessibility, and after> >>learning about all that is going on around> >>accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk> >>to include this. It sort of of swung the> >>pendulum even further making my talk more like,> >>Designing Audio AS Game Design...> >>> >>Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives> >>and have learned some things eg; "sight> >>disabled" rather than "blind" etc...> >>I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can> >>help raise some awareness about accessibility in> >>the Casual Game space.> >>> >>I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you> >>happen to be attending, be sure to stop by and> >>say hi.> >>> >>btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas.> >>> >>Cheers,> >>> >>Greg> >>????????????????????????????????????????????????> >>SOUNDMINDZ> >>Music & Sound Design> >>www.GregRahn.net> >>Greg Rahn> >>707-643-8519> >>cell 707-246-4922> >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic> >>> >>_______________________________________________> >>games_access mailing list> >>games_access at igda.org> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 3> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:48:55 +0100> > From: "Barrie Ellis" > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction> > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"> > > > Message-ID: <58ef01c8eca0$f1a7af00$9901a8c0 at oneswitch>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> > reply-type=response> >> > Yes - welcome Greg - it's great to have fresh enthusiasm!> >> > And just to stir up the language debates that do go on for ever!> >> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ouch/2006/02/blind_or_visually_impaired.html> >> > Barrie> > www.OneSwitch.org.uk> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "d. michelle hinn" > > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:20 AM> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction> >> >> > Hi Greg -- welcome! I won't be at Casual Games> > unfortunately but would you be interested in> > joining in with a couple of our audio designer> > and closed captioning members and doing a panel> > or some such at GDC in San Francisco in March?> > We're getting our proposals together now (they> > are due next week) so if you are interested,> > email me off list at hinn at uiuc.edu so I can get> > your info and such into the GDC system.> >> > We are always looking for new ground to spread> > the accessibility word to so it's exciting that> > you've found us -- please let others who are> > interested know about us. On this list you'll> > find researchers, game designers, owners of> > accessibility controller shops, journalists,> > editors, and much, much more! So, once again,> > welcome and please don't hesitate to ask any of> > us about ideas, reactions to ideas, etc -- we're> > not a shy bunch!> >> > Michelle> > Chairperson, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG (we're> > also affiliated with DiGRA, the ECA, and the ESA)> >> >>Hi All,> >>My name is Greg Rahn and I'm a newbie here. I> >>discovered this sig as I was doing research for> >>a presentation I am doing at the Casual Games> >>Conference this Friday in Seattle.> >>http://seattle.casualconnect.org/> >>> >>My session started out as Designing Audio> >>Concurrently With Game Design. (as opposed to> >>"hey let's add sound to our game now that it's> >>done"). I came across accessibility, and after> >>learning about all that is going on around> >>accessibility in games, I have expanded my talk> >>to include this. It sort of of swung the> >>pendulum even further making my talk more like,> >>Designing Audio AS Game Design...> >>> >>Anyway, I've culled thru some of your archives> >>and have learned some things eg; "sight> >>disabled" rather than "blind" etc...> >>I'm excited by all of this and hopefully I can> >>help raise some awareness about accessibility in> >>the Casual Game space.> >>> >>I'll let you know how it goes. If any of you> >>happen to be attending, be sure to stop by and> >>say hi.> >>> >>btw...nice work on Terraformers Thomas.> >>> >>Cheers,> >>> >>Greg> >>YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY> >>SOUNDMINDZ> >>Music & Sound Design> >>www.GregRahn.net> >>Greg Rahn> >>707-643-8519> >>cell 707-246-4922> >>Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic> >>> >>_______________________________________________> >>games_access mailing list> >>games_access at igda.org> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> >> > _______________________________________________> > games_access mailing list> > games_access at igda.org> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 4> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:20:29 -0400 (EDT)> > From: "John Bannick" > > Subject: [games_access] Introduction> > To: games_access at igda.org> > Message-ID:> > <1068.76.119.124.119.1216804829.squirrel at webmail.enigami.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> >> > Greg,> >> > It's odd to read your post referring to "Designing Audio Concurrently With> > Game Design" at this particular moment.> >> > My company, 7-128 Software, builds mainstream casual computer games that> > are accessible.> >> > This morning I'm coding a tool for Perkins School for the Blind, here in> > Boston, that will let them edit content for some new children's games> > we're doing.> >> > Since some of their employees are blind, I'm including self-voicing and> > JAWS screen-reader access in the editor.> >> > So I'm sitting here waiting for the thing to compile, and browsing various> > fora. (I'm a member of the GA SIG.)> >> > Speaking as someone who's been doing UIs professionally for 30 years and> > audio UIs for the past 10 years, the audio part does affect the video> > part. It affects how you lay things out. It affects timing issues. It> > affects the information architecture. It affect platform choices. And it> > affects the time to delivery.> >> > Speaking as a game developer, the GA SIG and related fora such as> > oneswitch, ablegamers, and audyssey make a huge difference in getting> > software actually accessible. Aside from raising awareness, they provide> > sources of practical information as to what users with special needs want,> > what works, what does not work, resources available, and new products.> >> > Anyway, it's passing strange to read your post while doing exactly what> > you're referring to.> >> > Welcome and good luck at your conference.> >> > John Bannick> > CTO 7-128 Software> > www.7128.com> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 5> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:10:45 -0400> > From: "Kestrell" > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Introduction> > To: , "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"> > > > Message-ID: <004501c8ecc5$84dd57b0$0201000a at Galatea>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> > reply-type=original> >> > John,> >> > Wow! This sounds so cool! Are you going to make this accessible editor> > available to other blind gamers? It sounds so fascinating!> >> > And now I feel I really must go subscribe to your games; perhaps next> > month> > for my birthday present to myself.> >> > Kes> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "John Bannick" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:20 AM> > Subject: [games_access] Introduction> >> >> >> Greg,> >>> >> It's odd to read your post referring to "Designing Audio Concurrently> >> With> >> Game Design" at this particular moment.> >>> >> My company, 7-128 Software, builds mainstream casual computer games that> >> are accessible.> >>> >> This morning I'm coding a tool for Perkins School for the Blind, here in> >> Boston, that will let them edit content for some new children's games> >> we're doing.> >>> >> Since some of their employees are blind, I'm including self-voicing and> >> JAWS screen-reader access in the editor.> >>> >> So I'm sitting here waiting for the thing to compile, and browsing> >> various> >> fora. (I'm a member of the GA SIG.)> >>> >> Speaking as someone who's been doing UIs professionally for 30 years and> >> audio UIs for the past 10 years, the audio part does affect the video> >> part. It affects how you lay things out. It affects timing issues. It> >> affects the information architecture. It affect platform choices. And it> >> affects the time to delivery.> >>> >> Speaking as a game developer, the GA SIG and related fora such as> >> oneswitch, ablegamers, and audyssey make a huge difference in getting> >> software actually accessible. Aside from raising awareness, they provide> >> sources of practical information as to what users with special needs> >> want,> >> what works, what does not work, resources available, and new products.> >>> >> Anyway, it's passing strange to read your post while doing exactly what> >> you're referring to.> >>> >> Welcome and good luck at your conference.> >>> >> John Bannick> >> CTO 7-128 Software> >> www.7128.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> games_access mailing list> >> games_access at igda.org> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 6> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:48:51 +0100> > From: "Barrie Ellis" > > Subject: [games_access] New Breath Clicking Controller> > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"> > > > Message-ID: <5bdf01c8ecca$d9703ea0$9901a8c0 at oneswitch>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> >> > This is a fantastic looking device:> >> > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-breath-clicking-controller.html> >> > With the inventor offering D.I.Y. advice to people wishing to construct> > their own.> >> > This needs a company to get behind though - as it has so much potential.> >> > Barrie> > www.OneSwitch.org.uk> > -------------- next part --------------> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> > URL:> > > >> > ------------------------------> >> > _______________________________________________> > games_access mailing list> > games_access at igda.org> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access> >> >> > End of games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14> > ********************************************> >> > > > > _______________________________________________> games_access mailing list> games_access at igda.org> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Mon Aug 4 12:05:44 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:05:44 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Serious Games and Game Accessibility Message-ID: <378299018@web.de> Hello Samuel, Thank you very much for the link. This pdf file is great. It seems to be still "work in progress" ? On page 31 is Rehabitainment. I think here you can find also Game Accessibility ? I think it is this way. But I am not sure. Serious Games -> Games for health -> Game Accessibility But of course you are right, it should be on the same level as Games for health. It can also be seen as the starting point, because what are the advantages of new serious games, that some people cannot use ? I think a good way is to post this question at this email-discussion-list: http://www.gamesforhealth.org/maillist2.html Personal opinion: What I do not like is, when they use name of products as term: Often "Wii" and "DDR" are used, instead of "Exergames" and "Machine Dance". It is not Wiihabitainment it is Rehabitainment. Sometimes I think people who do presentation get money from Konami or Nintendo ;-) Regards, Sandra Uhling www.MachineDance.de > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Samuel Franco" > Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 > To: games_access at igda.org > Message-ID: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel at mail.frado.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Samuel Franco Dom?nguez > > > Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy. > > > In this page, > http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html > there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy > http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf > > There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity. > I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games. > Serious Games is not only about software > (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about > alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or > exergaming. > Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example. > When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and > asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve > or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the > things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons. > Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is > asistive technology. > > I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the > taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see > the relationship between them? > > When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn > disability) > plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not > only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health. > > If you agree with me please let them know. > I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea. > > Thanks _______________________________________________________________________ Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 From reid at rbkdesign.com Mon Aug 4 12:57:17 2008 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:57:17 -0700 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel@mail.frado.net> Message-ID: I'm having trouble making the connection between GA and the Serious Games Taxonomy. I see GA as a part of any kind of game that allows people to access it. -Reid On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Matthias Troup wrote: > Hi Samuel, > > This may sound strange, but "accessibility" still means "fun and casual" to > me (for now). Accessibility doesn't specify any benefit different than what > non-accessible games give to the average gamer (by that I partially mean > that "accessibility" shouldn't have some inherent "disabled people can't > have fun" attitude attached towards it). If it were approached from a > physical therapy angle then accessibility could be lumped into the > medical/health area. A lot of what I see that comes out of accessible > gaming is simply better design... or perhaps better design makes things more > accessible. > > Like you I agree accessibility has its place in the Serious Games world. > Perhaps it has many places - which could be beneficial because that would > simply mean more contacts and a more diversified audience. If this is the > case let's not look at this as a problem but rather an opportunity. > > -Matt > > > ________________________________ >> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200 >> From: sam at frado.net >> To: games_access at igda.org >> Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 >> >> Samuel Franco Dom?nguez >> >> >> Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy. >> >> >> In this page, >> http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html >> there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy >> http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf >> >> There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity. >> I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games. >> Serious Games is not only about software >> (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about >> alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or >> exergaming. >> Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example. >> When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and >> asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve >> or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the >> things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons. >> Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is >> asistive technology. >> >> I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the >> taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see >> the relationship between them? >> >> When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn >> disability) >> plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not >> only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health. >> >> If you agree with me please let them know. >> I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea. >> >> Thanks From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Aug 4 15:36:20 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:36:20 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Serious Games and Game Accessibility In-Reply-To: <378299018@web.de> References: <378299018@web.de> Message-ID: Accessibility encompasses so many areas. In "serious games" (like games for learning) many countries require that these be made accessible for students with disabilities. In "games for health" we could be talking about many different things such as rehabilitation as well as exercise but are also games (thus the hand held DDR pads from a few years ago). Most of the SIG is concerned with commercial games because they are used mostly as a leisure activity (some teachers use them in school however) and there are so many barriers to access it's mind boggling. I know the Serious Games folks -- they invite us to talk at their conferences. I could talk to the people I know there about the taxonomy. The thing that I think there might be an understanding is that "serious games" do not mean that they tackle only serious items such as accessibility. Accessibility is serious in every format and genre of game -- "serious" or "pure entertainment. Michelle >Hello Samuel, > >Thank you very much for the link. This pdf file is great. >It seems to be still "work in progress" ? >On page 31 is Rehabitainment. I think here you >can find also Game Accessibility ? > > >I think it is this way. But I am not sure. >Serious Games -> Games for health -> Game Accessibility > > >But of course you are right, it should be on the >same level as Games for health. >It can also be seen as the starting point, >because what are the advantages of new serious >games, that some people cannot use ? > >I think a good way is to post this question at this email-discussion-list: >http://www.gamesforhealth.org/maillist2.html > > >Personal opinion: >What I do not like is, when they use name of products as term: >Often "Wii" and "DDR" are used, instead of "Exergames" and "Machine Dance". >It is not Wiihabitainment it is Rehabitainment. > >Sometimes I think people who do presentation get >money from Konami or Nintendo ;-) > >Regards, >Sandra Uhling > >www.MachineDance.de > > > > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200 (CEST) >> From: "Samuel Franco" >> Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 >> To: games_access at igda.org >> Message-ID: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel at mail.frado.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Samuel Franco Dom?nguez >> > > >> Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy. > > >> > > In this page, > > http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html >> there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy > > http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf > > >> There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity. >> I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games. >> Serious Games is not only about software >> (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about >> alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or >> exergaming. >> Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example. >> When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and >> asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve >> or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the >> things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons. >> Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is >> asistive technology. >> >> I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the > > taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see > > the relationship between them? >> >> When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn >> disability) >> plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not >> only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health. >> >> If you agree with me please let them know. >> I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea. >> >> Thanks > >_______________________________________________________________________ >Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage >kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Mon Aug 4 15:42:54 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:42:54 -0500 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: <31652.89.107.243.1.1217859214.squirrel@mail.frado.net> Message-ID: I agree with read -- GA is not simply the domain of only serious games , only commercial entertainment or only rehabilitation games. No matter what the purpose the a game is, we see opportunities for greater accessibility no matter what the context is. Michelle >I'm having trouble making the connection between GA and the Serious >Games Taxonomy. I see GA as a part of any kind of game that allows >people to access it. > >-Reid > >On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Matthias Troup > wrote: >> Hi Samuel, >> >> This may sound strange, but "accessibility" still means "fun and casual" to >> me (for now). Accessibility doesn't specify any benefit different than what >> non-accessible games give to the average gamer (by that I partially mean >> that "accessibility" shouldn't have some inherent "disabled people can't >> have fun" attitude attached towards it). If it were approached from a >> physical therapy angle then accessibility could be lumped into the >> medical/health area. A lot of what I see that comes out of accessible >> gaming is simply better design... or perhaps better design makes things more >> accessible. >> >> Like you I agree accessibility has its place in the Serious Games world. >> Perhaps it has many places - which could be beneficial because that would >> simply mean more contacts and a more diversified audience. If this is the >> case let's not look at this as a problem but rather an opportunity. >> >> -Matt >> >> >> ________________________________ >>> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:13:34 +0200 >>> From: sam at frado.net >>> To: games_access at igda.org >>> Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 50, Issue 14 >>> >>> Samuel Franco Dom?nguez >>> >>> >>> Game Accesibility in Serious Games Taxonomy. >>> >>> >>> In this page, >>> http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html >>> there is a presentation about Serious Games taxonomy >>> http://www.dmill.com/presentations/serious-games-taxonomy-2008.pdf >>> >>> There is nothing about accesibility as a serius game activity. >>> I think that accesibility is serious, and it is about games. >>> Serious Games is not only about software >>> (but accesibility needs software adaptaton) Serious Games is also about >>> alternative controlers like haptic controlers for training skills or >>> exergaming. >>> Haptic is also usefull for sight disabled for example. >>> When I think about accesibility I think also about rehabilitation and >>> asistive tecnology. I am a rehabilitation doctor so when I can not improve >>> or change my patient (nature gives no everything) I try to change the >>> things aroud this person. Things are less important than persons. >>> Integration of disabled is also Games for Health, accesibility games is >>> asistive technology. >>> >>> I have asked Serious Games Iniciative why Accesibility is out of the >>> taxonomy they are bulding now. What do you think about this? Do you see >>> the relationship between them? >>> >>> When I get that a child with cerebral palsy (with motor and learningn >>> disability) >>> plays a Oneswitch game this is motor and cognitive rehabilitation, not >>> only entertaiment. This is Serious Game, this is Games for Health. >>> >>> If you agree with me please let them know. >>> I think that my horrible english could not be a good defense of any idea. >>> >>> Thanks >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 18:44:16 2008 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 00:44:16 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> <496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <836db6300808041544w2f0bdf11l7bd16aa71fa968c2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Sorry I took a little break, so I am trying to catch up on my email. I'd be interested in participation, I'm happy to demo some stuff on the game accessibility arcade like last year. I wrote a proposal for a 60 minute talk for the Business track on the Accessibility of Virtual worlds. We discovered a number of accessibility problems with virtual worlds like Second Life and There and developed two prototype solutions that have the potential to make virtual worlds accessible to the blind and severely physically disabled. I'm not sure if this proposal should be incorporated as part of the IGDA but I'm open to suggestions. Cheers Eelke On 03/08/2008, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake up > tomorrow! Yes, I definitely pegged you for proposal #3 along with Eelke and > Reid (maybe Richard too? Richard -- are you out there?). That will be in the > Programming and IGDA tracks (cross-listed). > > We're getting there! Thanks to everyone who has helped out so far! I cannot > thank you enough -- it's nice to know that, as a group and as individuals, > we're so supportive of each other, especially when there's a health or > family emergency. > > So far (I apologize if I'm missing anyone -- my brain is mush at the > moment) I have the following people interested in participating in GDC 2009: > > Michelle (me) > Mark > Stephanie > Thomas > Richard > Reid > Eelke > Kevin > Barrie (Barrie -- email me off list for additional info) > Eitan > > Others? Dimitris? Giannis? Anyone else? Please do not be offended if I left > you off this list -- it's off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my > email for others! But feel free to speak up and remind me in the meantime!! > > Michelle > > > > Hi Greg, Michelle and others > > > > the specific wiki page we're talking about is this > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 > > > > I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com site, and I'll start > inserting the stuff I get from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now > (Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. Also I'll edit the outline to > fit the content outline Michelle proposed > > > > My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). > > > > Kind regards > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: > > > > > > > I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? > > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > SOUNDMINDZ > > > Music & Sound Design > > > www.GregRahn.net > > > Greg Rahn > > > 707-643-8519 > > > cell 707-246-4922 > > > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic > > > > > > On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Michelle and all, > > > > > > > > I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of > the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have asked > Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) > > > > > > > > (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I > just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, especially > now with the disease). > > > > > > > > Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) > and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out editing the > wiki. > > > > > > > > I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't > have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself (sketchy > version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all follow the GDC > guidelines for submissions it should make the process smooth. I have yet to > do so for my stuff :). > > > > > > > > Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by > August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. > > > > > > > > Have a nice weekend, > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > games_access mailing list > > > > games_access at igda.org > > > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > games_access mailing list > > > games_access at igda.org > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Aug 5 03:12:32 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:12:32 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? Message-ID: <378857422@web.de> Hello, I would like to know, in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. And what laws are important. With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. And to show that this is an important thing for companies that are developping games for use in schools. Regards, Sandra Uhling _____________________________________________________________________ Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Aug 5 05:11:36 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:11:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] ISP problems Message-ID: <24B90D7E-3D01-42E9-BD1D-E36F44B5046A@pininteractive.com> Hi all, just letting you know, I have some ISP problems with my mobile connection at the moment but I'll go to a place where I can connect at least once a day to check the progress at the wiki, read e-mails and such. I'm sorry for this, I'll do my best to keep up and fix this issue. Kind regards Thomas From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Aug 5 15:05:31 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:05:31 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 09 wiki update Message-ID: <0888DB57-E4CF-436D-B9D9-AC910EA7C632@pininteractive.com> Hi Wiki updated added text for the Accessibility Arcade (copied from last year) also, the template is not necessary to fill in all details as Michelle will be the one submitting the proposals, see more info on the wiki http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 Kind regards Thomas From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Aug 6 11:35:39 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:35:39 +0200 Subject: [games_access] editing final proposals tomorrow, after 12.00 PST Message-ID: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> Hi all, just letting you know, I and Kevin will start editing the proposals after 12.00 PST (San Francisco time) tomorrow (Thursday) So please, upload your stuff to the wiki before then to make this process as smooth as possible Kind regards, Thomas From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Aug 7 04:00:25 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:00:25 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC San Francisco 2009, just one thought Message-ID: <381690893@web.de> Hello, this is only one thought: There is a nice GameOver! Game and some nice GA Rules. But how do developer use it ? How can they adapt the rules to their game ? The best way (maybe) is to show an example with a mainstream game. For example Need For Speed: Show how the "Unified Design for UA-Games" works. Where to start, how to do it. What is important, how to work together with the gamer. And at the end present an accessible Need for Speed Game Design. Regards, Sandra _________________________________________________________________________ In 5 Schritten zur eigenen Homepage. Jetzt Domain sichern und gestalten! Nur 3,99 EUR/Monat! http://www.maildomain.web.de/?mc=021114 From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Aug 7 04:34:16 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 10:34:16 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC San Francisco 2009, just one thought In-Reply-To: <381690893@web.de> References: <381690893@web.de> Message-ID: Hi Sandra yes, I propose a coding framework for implementation in my master thesis (GAIM), and Eelke provides design patterns for accessibility. Also, mainstream games wih accessibility implemented are e.g Doom3[CC], Half-life 2 and AudioQuake. Then there also a number of general / hardware approaches. This will be part of the Tech talk session. /Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 10.00, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > > this is only one thought: > > There is a nice GameOver! Game and some nice GA Rules. > But how do developer use it ? > How can they adapt the rules to their game ? > > The best way (maybe) is to show an example with a mainstream game. > For example Need For Speed: > > Show how the "Unified Design for UA-Games" works. > Where to start, how to do it. > What is important, how to work together with the gamer. > > And at the end present an accessible Need for Speed Game Design. > > Regards, > Sandra > _________________________________________________________________________ > In 5 Schritten zur eigenen Homepage. Jetzt Domain sichern und > gestalten! > Nur 3,99 EUR/Monat! http://www.maildomain.web.de/?mc=021114 > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 10:45:36 2008 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:45:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? In-Reply-To: <378857422@web.de> References: <378857422@web.de> Message-ID: <836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> Hi Sandra, Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) make their information accessible. So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not providing you with an accessible alternative? Cheers Eelke On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to know, > in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. > And what laws are important. > > With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. > And to show that this is an important thing for companies that > are developping games for use in schools. > > Regards, > > Sandra Uhling > _____________________________________________________________________ > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eelke.folmer at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 10:47:54 2008 From: eelke.folmer at gmail.com (Eelke Folmer) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:47:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] editing final proposals tomorrow, after 12.00 PST In-Reply-To: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> References: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <836db6300808070747o2d540abbg5261a37153b8b3ea@mail.gmail.com> Hi Thomas, Do you want me to incorporate my proposal into the SIG one's or shall I just go solo with this one? Cheers Eelke On 06/08/2008, Thomas Westin wrote: > Hi all, > > just letting you know, I and Kevin will start editing the proposals after > 12.00 PST (San Francisco time) tomorrow (Thursday) > > So please, upload your stuff to the wiki before then to make this process > as smooth as possible > > Kind regards, > Thomas > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ioo at ablegamers.com Thu Aug 7 14:55:56 2008 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:55:56 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? In-Reply-To: <836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <378857422@web.de> <836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <191870b70808071155j1c8d438vaf270c8b53147b6f@mail.gmail.com> Well to chime in on this, because I am in the software biz for the federal government or 10 years here in the Washington DC area, and at one time in my life an expert on 508. Eelke, you are half right here. The only folks that are required to comply with 508 are federal government agencies, and only to the extent of where their data is exposed to the public or employees. Here is what it says... "Section 508 requires that when Federal agencies develop, procure, maintain, or use electronic and information technology, Federal employees with disabilities have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to the access and use by Federal employees who are not individuals with disabilities, unless an undue burden would be imposed on the agency." So, an example here would be the website from the IRS, or forms they allow to be filled out on the web. Those all have to comply with the law. Now that said, many states have adopted state level laws that bring 508 into state level governments, and that is where university come into play. State run university are compelled to comply with 508 once the state adopts the law on a state level. I say all of that to say this, 508 has HUGE LOOPHOLES. You do not need to be 508 compliant if your application, by its nature, cannot be 508 compliant, so let's say a video game. Further, you can also not be 508 compliant if no 508 alternative is available. Part (e) of Section 1194.3 says "(e) This part shall not be construed to require a fundamental alteration in the nature of a product or its components. " So to go back to the original question, in the US I dare say NO GAME is required to be accessible, because one can argue, and be right for the most part that 508 "require a fundamental alteration in the nature of a product or its components. " and also "unless an undue burden would be imposed on the agency". As long as you can argue that there is no way to make said product accessible to persons with disabilities, and still be what it was meant to be, say a game, then it can be excluded from the law... Last point, and this is why I think 508 and games is never going to happen (and I think never should happen) is because 508 is an all or nothing law, you are 508 compliant, or you are not. So if your product can be used by everyone in the world with physical disabilities, and the blind cannot use it, you are not 508? So I would say, and I am no lawyer, but I think you would be hard pressed to sue a school who used a non 508, off the shelf, game as a teaching aid in a classroom, or be sued for using one. NOW, if you are making a game that is designed for school and one of the goals of the game is to help, or train folks with disabilities, I would think that is a marketing thing... You are welcome to contact me directly if you want to yell at me, debate me on the law as it is written or just to say hello. Mark Barlet Editor-in-Chief AbleGamers.com PS sorry for my spelling, I am at work, and not a lot of time to give at the moment. On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Hi Sandra, > > Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all > federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) > make their information accessible. > > > So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has > to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm > not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not > providing you with an accessible alternative? > > Cheers Eelke > > > On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I would like to know, > > in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. > > And what laws are important. > > > > With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. > > And to show that this is an important thing for companies that > > are developping games for use in schools. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sandra Uhling > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! > > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.eelke.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Aug 7 15:38:09 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:38:09 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! References: Message-ID: <71149885-BC71-4719-9DEB-EC4322CCFAF2@pininteractive.com> Hello Mark, Stephanie, Richard, Reid and Barrie, if you want to present at GDC: this is urgent so please read So far I got responses from Eitan, Eelke and Greg. Greg is so far the only text I've got except my own. I and Kevin had a chat meeting today and will start to work with what texts we have. Kevin works on the Tech Talk, I work on the Access 101 session. The Access Arcade is pretty well covered from last year. We really need more content so please send me texts (off list or preferrably directly at the wiki) as soon as possible - i.e today, please! We now only have Friday left to edit - Monday is needed for the final submissions. I don't want to schedule work for anyone on the weekend although it surely will be so anyway. Even so, having to edit large portions of texts in the very last minute is not a good idea. Kind regards Thomas Begin forwarded message: > From: "GDC 2009" > Date: to 7 aug 2008 18.31.35 GMT+02:00 > To: > Subject: Reminder: GDC 2009 Call for Submissions Closes This Monday, > Aug. 11 > Reply-To: "GDC Newsletter" > > > Click here to view this newsletter in your browser > > > > GDC09 Call for Submissions: Closes Midnight August 11 > Inspire Your Peers at GDC09 > Dear Thomas, > > The call for submissions to present lectures, panels, roundtables, > tutorials and poster sessions at the 2009 Game Developers Conference > (GDC) is closes next Monday, August 11. > > GDC, the premier professional conference for creators of videogames > and interactive entertainment, will take place at San Francisco?s > Moscone Convention Center March 23-27, 2009. > > The submission process has changed! Please review the guidelines and > topics prior to submitting a proposal in any of the six tracks: > Audio, Business & Management, Design, Production, Programming, and > Visual Arts. > > Use this link to update your contact info and submit a proposal: > https://www.cmpevents.com/?M=$FGH1FGEDMG1F1D1D1D1D1EFGHI1D1D > > You may want to save this personalized URL to return to this page at > a later time. This link logs you in automatically, by-passing the > password requirement. If you share this link you may be compromising > your personal data. > > For more information, please visit our call for submissions page or > contact me. > > Evelyn Donis > Senior Conference Manager > edonis at think-services.com > > Game Developers Conference > March 23-27, 2008 > Moscone Convention Center > San Francisco, California > www.gdconf.com > > Unsubscribe > Did someone forward the GDC Update to you? To subscribe: subscribeGDC-ctg0iab6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com > You are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in > receiving information about events provided by the Think Services > Game Group for developers and publishers of electronic games. > > You are subscribed as thomas at pininteractive.com > To unsubscribe from the GDC Update, please forward this message to: unsubscribegdc-ctg0aib6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com > > Game Developers Conference - Email Unsubscription > Think Services Game Group- 600 Harrison St., 6th Floor - San > Francisco, CA 94107 - USA > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at audiogames.net Thu Aug 7 15:46:20 2008 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:46:20 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! References: <71149885-BC71-4719-9DEB-EC4322CCFAF2@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: <001501c8f8c6$444c4000$6402a8c0@Delletje> Hi, Great work! I'll honestly try the find the time tomorrow (have a deadline of my own unfortunately - very bad timing!) so maybe I have to skip this year :( I will be visiting though so at least you'll have one person in your audience otherwise ;) Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Westin To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! Hello Mark, Stephanie, Richard, Reid and Barrie, if you want to present at GDC: this is urgent so please read So far I got responses from Eitan, Eelke and Greg. Greg is so far the only text I've got except my own. I and Kevin had a chat meeting today and will start to work with what texts we have. Kevin works on the Tech Talk, I work on the Access 101 session. The Access Arcade is pretty well covered from last year. We really need more content so please send me texts (off list or preferrably directly at the wiki) as soon as possible - i.e today, please! We now only have Friday left to edit - Monday is needed for the final submissions. I don't want to schedule work for anyone on the weekend although it surely will be so anyway. Even so, having to edit large portions of texts in the very last minute is not a good idea. Kind regards Thomas Begin forwarded message: From: "GDC 2009" Date: to 7 aug 2008 18.31.35 GMT+02:00 To: Subject: Reminder: GDC 2009 Call for Submissions Closes This Monday, Aug. 11 Reply-To: "GDC Newsletter" Click here to view this newsletter in your browser GDC09 Call for Submissions: Closes Midnight August 11 Inspire Your Peers at GDC09 Dear Thomas, The call for submissions to present lectures, panels, roundtables, tutorials and poster sessions at the 2009 Game Developers Conference (GDC) is closes next Monday, August 11. GDC, the premier professional conference for creators of videogames and interactive entertainment, will take place at San Francisco?s Moscone Convention Center March 23-27, 2009. The submission process has changed! Please review the guidelines and topics prior to submitting a proposal in any of the six tracks: Audio, Business & Management, Design, Production, Programming, and Visual Arts. Use this link to update your contact info and submit a proposal: https://www.cmpevents.com/?M=$FGH1FGEDMG1F1D1D1D1D1EFGHI1D1D You may want to save this personalized URL to return to this page at a later time. This link logs you in automatically, by-passing the password requirement. If you share this link you may be compromising your personal data. For more information, please visit our call for submissions page or contact me. Evelyn Donis Senior Conference Manager edonis at think-services.com Game Developers Conference March 23-27, 2008 Moscone Convention Center San Francisco, California www.gdconf.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe Did someone forward the GDC Update to you? To subscribe: subscribeGDC-ctg0iab6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com You are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in receiving information about events provided by the Think Services Game Group for developers and publishers of electronic games. You are subscribed as thomas at pininteractive.com To unsubscribe from the GDC Update, please forward this message to: unsubscribegdc-ctg0aib6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com Game Developers Conference - Email Unsubscription Think Services Game Group- 600 Harrison St., 6th Floor - San Francisco, CA 94107 - USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Aug 7 15:48:42 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:48:42 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? In-Reply-To: <191870b70808071155j1c8d438vaf270c8b53147b6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <378857422@web.de><836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> <191870b70808071155j1c8d438vaf270c8b53147b6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55635C73-6961-49DA-8290-0568C5607708@pininteractive.com> I think the same goes with similar laws in Sweden for instance too In education the traditional way of coping with accessibility, if it can't be done through modification of the environment, is to hire personal assistants, e.g sign language during a lecture. The problem then when it comes to games in education, is to find personal assistants who are also skillful gamers :) /Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 20.55, Mark Barlet wrote: > Well to chime in on this, because I am in the software biz for the > federal government or 10 years here in the Washington DC area, and > at one time in my life an expert on 508. > > Eelke, you are half right here. The only folks that are required to > comply with 508 are federal government agencies, and only to the > extent of where their data is exposed to the public or employees. > Here is what it says... > > "Section 508 requires that when Federal agencies develop, procure, > maintain, or use electronic and information technology, Federal > employees with disabilities have access to and use of information > and data that is comparable to the access and use by Federal > employees who are not individuals with disabilities, unless an undue > burden would be imposed on the agency." > > So, an example here would be the website from the IRS, or forms they > allow to be filled out on the web. Those all have to comply with the > law. > > Now that said, many states have adopted state level laws that bring > 508 into state level governments, and that is where university come > into play. State run university are compelled to comply with 508 > once the state adopts the law on a state level. > > I say all of that to say this, 508 has HUGE LOOPHOLES. You do not > need to be 508 compliant if your application, by its nature, cannot > be 508 compliant, so let's say a video game. Further, you can also > not be 508 compliant if no 508 alternative is available. > > Part (e) of Section 1194.3 says "(e) This part shall not be > construed to require a fundamental alteration in the nature of a > product or its components. " > > So to go back to the original question, in the US I dare say NO GAME > is required to be accessible, because one can argue, and be right > for the most part that 508 "require a fundamental alteration in the > nature of a product or its components. " and also "unless an undue > burden would be imposed on the agency". As long as you can argue > that there is no way to make said product accessible to persons with > disabilities, and still be what it was meant to be, say a game, then > it can be excluded from the law... > > Last point, and this is why I think 508 and games is never going to > happen (and I think never should happen) is because 508 is an all or > nothing law, you are 508 compliant, or you are not. So if your > product can be used by everyone in the world with physical > disabilities, and the blind cannot use it, you are not 508? So I > would say, and I am no lawyer, but I think you would be hard pressed > to sue a school who used a non 508, off the shelf, game as a > teaching aid in a classroom, or be sued for using one. > > NOW, if you are making a game that is designed for school and one of > the goals of the game is to help, or train folks with disabilities, > I would think that is a marketing thing... > > You are welcome to contact me directly if you want to yell at me, > debate me on the law as it is written or just to say hello. > > Mark Barlet > Editor-in-Chief > AbleGamers.com > > > > PS sorry for my spelling, I am at work, and not a lot of time to > give at the moment. > > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Eelke Folmer > wrote: > Hi Sandra, > > Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all > federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) > make their information accessible. > > > So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has > to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm > not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not > providing you with an accessible alternative? > > Cheers Eelke > > > On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I would like to know, > > in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. > > And what laws are important. > > > > With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. > > And to show that this is an important thing for companies that > > are developping games for use in schools. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sandra Uhling > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu > sparen! > > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.eelke.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Aug 7 15:51:21 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:51:21 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! In-Reply-To: <001501c8f8c6$444c4000$6402a8c0@Delletje> References: <71149885-BC71-4719-9DEB-EC4322CCFAF2@pininteractive.com> <001501c8f8c6$444c4000$6402a8c0@Delletje> Message-ID: <04DA27EB-EEE1-4228-92B5-0B6A492B387B@pininteractive.com> Hi Richard! OK, good to know what is stopping you. If I get it tomorrow it's OK, we need you with us! Just want to urge everyone not to send it Saturday night or worse :) Kind regards Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 21.46, AudioGames.net wrote: > Hi, > > Great work! I'll honestly try the find the time tomorrow (have a > deadline of my own unfortunately - very bad timing!) so maybe I have > to skip this year :( I will be visiting though so at least you'll > have one person in your audience otherwise ;) > > Greets, > > Richard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Thomas Westin > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:38 PM > Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! > > Hello Mark, Stephanie, Richard, Reid and Barrie, > > if you want to present at GDC: this is urgent so please read > > So far I got responses from Eitan, Eelke and Greg. Greg is so far > the only text I've got except my own. > > I and Kevin had a chat meeting today and will start to work with > what texts we have. Kevin works on the Tech Talk, I work on the > Access 101 session. The Access Arcade is pretty well covered from > last year. > > We really need more content so please send me texts (off list or > preferrably directly at the wiki) as soon as possible - i.e today, > please! > > We now only have Friday left to edit - Monday is needed for the > final submissions. I don't want to schedule work for anyone on the > weekend although it surely will be so anyway. Even so, having to > edit large portions of texts in the very last minute is not a good > idea. > > Kind regards > Thomas > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "GDC 2009" >> Date: to 7 aug 2008 18.31.35 GMT+02:00 >> To: >> Subject: Reminder: GDC 2009 Call for Submissions Closes This >> Monday, Aug. 11 >> Reply-To: "GDC Newsletter" >> >> >> Click here to view this newsletter in your browser >> >> >> >> GDC09 Call for Submissions: Closes Midnight August 11 >> Inspire Your Peers at GDC09 >> Dear Thomas, >> >> The call for submissions to present lectures, panels, roundtables, >> tutorials and poster sessions at the 2009 Game Developers >> Conference (GDC) is closes next Monday, August 11. >> >> GDC, the premier professional conference for creators of videogames >> and interactive entertainment, will take place at San Francisco?s >> Moscone Convention Center March 23-27, 2009. >> >> The submission process has changed! Please review the guidelines >> and topics prior to submitting a proposal in any of the six tracks: >> Audio, Business & Management, Design, Production, Programming, and >> Visual Arts. >> >> Use this link to update your contact info and submit a proposal: >> https://www.cmpevents.com/?M=$FGH1FGEDMG1F1D1D1D1D1EFGHI1D1D >> >> You may want to save this personalized URL to return to this page >> at a later time. This link logs you in automatically, by-passing >> the password requirement. If you share this link you may be >> compromising your personal data. >> >> For more information, please visit our call for submissions page or >> contact me. >> >> Evelyn Donis >> Senior Conference Manager >> edonis at think-services.com >> >> Game Developers Conference >> March 23-27, 2008 >> Moscone Convention Center >> San Francisco, California >> www.gdconf.com >> >> Unsubscribe >> Did someone forward the GDC Update to you? To subscribe: subscribeGDC-ctg0iab6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com >> You are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in >> receiving information about events provided by the Think Services >> Game Group for developers and publishers of electronic games. >> >> You are subscribed as thomas at pininteractive.com >> To unsubscribe from the GDC Update, please forward this message to: unsubscribegdc-ctg0aib6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com >> >> Game Developers Conference - Email Unsubscription >> Think Services Game Group- 600 Harrison St., 6th Floor - San >> Francisco, CA 94107 - USA >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Thu Aug 7 16:21:40 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:21:40 +0200 Subject: [games_access] editing final proposals tomorrow, after 12.00 PST In-Reply-To: <836db6300808070747o2d540abbg5261a37153b8b3ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> <836db6300808070747o2d540abbg5261a37153b8b3ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50FCCF6A-7FF6-43C0-80C3-A1EDF74AF25B@pininteractive.com> Hi Eelke, Kevin and I just had a meeting and we think you can send your proposal as solo if you wish; please send it to me offlist so I can review it though to see how it fits with the rest - good to know what is sent so we don't make cross- overs between submissions I'll not include it in the SIG submissions unless you say so Kind regards Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 16.47, Eelke Folmer wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Do you want me to incorporate my proposal into the SIG one's or shall > I just go solo with this one? > > Cheers Eelke > > > On 06/08/2008, Thomas Westin wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> just letting you know, I and Kevin will start editing the proposals >> after >> 12.00 PST (San Francisco time) tomorrow (Thursday) >> >> So please, upload your stuff to the wiki before then to make this >> process >> as smooth as possible >> >> Kind regards, >> Thomas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor > Department of CS&E/171 > University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 > Game interaction design www.eelke.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:29:57 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:29:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Michelle's email server not working Message-ID: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Still having tech probs...sending this again... ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:14:01 -0500 (CDT) >From: >Subject: Michelle's email server not working >To: games_access at igda.org > >Hi all, > >I've been sending out messages all week that apparently i not actually get sent as I am just discovering. UIUC is now in the process of changing to illinois.edu and our ISP just became comcast.net and so basically? My email is majorly messed up. > >Anyway, I will be going through what is on the wiki tonight and tomorrow. I was planning on using the weekend for getting last minute stuff together so no worries there. THANK YOU to all who have been helping, especially Thomas and Kevin who have been collecting text from everyone this week and editing stuff. Apparently I couldn't JUST have Lyme disease and all the diseases it is related to -- I have to have internet problems as well! Super Fun! > >So if you have been wondering why I haven't responded to you...that is why. I can only access my email through the university webmail interface, which is very annoying and very limited. I'll be resending emails tonight. > >Michelle >....................................... >these are mediocre times and people are >losing hope. it's hard for many people >to believe that there are extraordinary >things inside themselves, as well as >others. i hope you can keep an open >mind. > -- "unbreakable" >....................................... ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From reid at rbkdesign.com Thu Aug 7 18:33:17 2008 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:33:17 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Michelle's email server not working In-Reply-To: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I've been very busy with my job searching but I do want to participate in the tech talk like Michelle and I talked about earlier. Let me know if you need more info from me. -Reid On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:29 PM, wrote: > Still having tech probs...sending this again... > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:14:01 -0500 (CDT) >>From: >>Subject: Michelle's email server not working >>To: games_access at igda.org >> >>Hi all, >> >>I've been sending out messages all week that apparently i not actually get sent as I am just discovering. UIUC is now in the process of changing to illinois.edu and our ISP just became comcast.net and so basically? My email is majorly messed up. >> >>Anyway, I will be going through what is on the wiki tonight and tomorrow. I was planning on using the weekend for getting last minute stuff together so no worries there. THANK YOU to all who have been helping, especially Thomas and Kevin who have been collecting text from everyone this week and editing stuff. Apparently I couldn't JUST have Lyme disease and all the diseases it is related to -- I have to have internet problems as well! Super Fun! >> >>So if you have been wondering why I haven't responded to you...that is why. I can only access my email through the university webmail interface, which is very annoying and very limited. I'll be resending emails tonight. >> >>Michelle >>....................................... >>these are mediocre times and people are >>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>to believe that there are extraordinary >>things inside themselves, as well as >>others. i hope you can keep an open >>mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >>....................................... > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:41:51 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:41:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Michelle's email server not working Message-ID: <20080807174151.BII10079@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> You are already in the system, Reid, so adding you into the tech talk won't be a problem! I think I have info from you from last year about [cc] so we'll probably swipe that to use in the proposal. Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:33:17 -0700 >From: "Reid Kimball" >Subject: Re: [games_access] Michelle's email server not working >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >I've been very busy with my job searching but I do want to participate >in the tech talk like Michelle and I talked about earlier. Let me know >if you need more info from me. > >-Reid > >On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:29 PM, wrote: >> Still having tech probs...sending this again... >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:14:01 -0500 (CDT) >>>From: >>>Subject: Michelle's email server not working >>>To: games_access at igda.org >>> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>I've been sending out messages all week that apparently i not actually get sent as I am just discovering. UIUC is now in the process of changing to illinois.edu and our ISP just became comcast.net and so basically? My email is majorly messed up. >>> >>>Anyway, I will be going through what is on the wiki tonight and tomorrow. I was planning on using the weekend for getting last minute stuff together so no worries there. THANK YOU to all who have been helping, especially Thomas and Kevin who have been collecting text from everyone this week and editing stuff. Apparently I couldn't JUST have Lyme disease and all the diseases it is related to -- I have to have internet problems as well! Super Fun! >>> >>>So if you have been wondering why I haven't responded to you...that is why. I can only access my email through the university webmail interface, which is very annoying and very limited. I'll be resending emails tonight. >>> >>>Michelle >>>....................................... >>>these are mediocre times and people are >>>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>to believe that there are extraordinary >>>things inside themselves, as well as >>>others. i hope you can keep an open >>>mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>>....................................... >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:43:41 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:43:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Community Proposal for GDC Message-ID: <20080807174341.BII10200@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> (this was supposed to go out Tuesday -- i am resending) Hi Eelke! So Mark Bartlet (Editor of AbleGamers that you met at the last GDC) is working on a "community" panel. I'm wondering if it might be an interesting talk to have him discuss how gamers with disabilities are turning to forums like AbleGamers and then have you talk about how you are working on solutions for things like SL -- another community but ones that people can't access (which they then take back to, say, AbleGamers and are able to post reviews. What would you think about that? It doesn't have to be a replacement for the talk you already have -- just another opportunity to present it (and we want to get all the accessibility talks we can get). Question -- do you think that business is the best route for your proposal? I was just wondering if design wouldn't be better but I'm not sure how "number crunchy" your proposal is. Also, I am working on funding to help defray some costs this year (I'm not sure yet about the rules for "sponsored" sessions). As far as submitting it yourself, that's totally fine. I turn in the SIG proposals in one big swoop since I have a special access code -- it's different than the past ones. It has something to do with it being my 5th GDC as a speaker. So that's something to keep in mind but, again, it doesn't have to be cross-listed with IGDA -- it's just an option. I'd love to have you represent both the SIG and your lab at UNR. We're still figuring out the "tech talk" proposal an since you have multiple things you are welcome to also join that panel if you are interested. That one is an IGDA/Programming Track proposal. Anyway, please email me (offlist if possible -- hinn at uiuc.edu) with your thoughts on this. I'm setting up a mini mailing list [see also, a big cc: list] for everyone that can be there and/or want to help but know that they can't attend this year. So if any/all seems like something that you are interested in. Also, you'll be able to show your "latest" at the arcade session! :) WOOOOT! This SIG is on a role right now! So, Eelke, since you live in the casino state, swing by and roll an eight the hard way for extra luck for us this year!!! ;) And, yes, I'm sending this from the hospital that has free wifi...and yes, they have given me something to prep for endoscopy that was supposed to be at 10am...so if I sound crazier than I already am, that's why. ;) Michelle Hi, Sorry I took a little break, so I am trying to catch up on my email. I'd be interested in participation, I'm happy to demo some stuff on ...snip... games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:44:36 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:44:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] GDC Edits Message-ID: <20080807174436.BII10258@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> (supposed to go out wednesday...) Hi Thomas -- I can edit the first three -- just need to compile the bits and pieces together. So mine will come a little later but, again, these are re-writes of stuff. I hit a bad (badder? more bad?) patch today so I was asleep most of today. rrr... Anyway, I really appreciate you and Kevin taking on the editing of the other proposals (at least I hope that there are more than the three I'm doing going up!! :) ) Michelle Hi all, just letting you know, I and Kevin will start editing the proposals after 12.00 PST (San Francisco time) tomorrow (Thursday) So please, upload your stuff to the wiki before then to make this process as smooth as possible Kind regards, Thomas _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:45:46 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:45:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] GDC San Francisco 2009, just one thought Message-ID: <20080807174546.BII10329@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> (supposed to go out wednesday but didn't...) To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List From: "d. michelle hinn" Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC San Francisco 2009, just one thought Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Also -- we are submitting an "accessibility" intro to help answer the needs of developers who need a "crash course" in accessibility before they attend a programming talk. So at this year's GDC we are trying to meet the needs of people just beginning to learn about accessibility as well as those who want implementation solutions. Michelle Hi Sandra yes, I propose a coding framework for implementation in my master thesis (GAIM), and Eelke provides design patterns for accessibility. Also, mainstream games wih accessibility implemented are e.g Doom3[CC], Half-life 2 and AudioQuake. Then there also a number of general / hardware approaches. This will be part of the Tech talk session. /Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 10.00, Sandra Uhling wrote: Hello, this is only one thought: There is a nice GameOver! Game and some nice GA Rules. But how do developer use it ? How can they adapt the rules to their game ? The best way (maybe) is to show an example with a mainstream game. For example Need For Speed: Show how the "Unified Design for UA-Games" works. Where to start, how to do it. What is important, how to work together with the gamer. And at the end present an accessible Need for Speed Game Design. Regards, Sandra _________________________________________________________________________ In 5 Schritten zur eigenen Homepage. Jetzt Domain sichern und gestalten! Nur 3,99 EUR/Monat! http://www.maildomain.web.de/?mc=021114 _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:46:45 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:46:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] US 508 Message-ID: <20080807174645.BII10377@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> The main thing behind 508 for universities in the US is that a "reasonable accommodation" is made. So, say, the instructor has a flash-based online test that someone in the classroom cannot access due to the fact that the assistive tech that they use is not compatible with the test. The instructor must supply an alternative format for this student and this is usually arranged through an office for students with disabilities. So if an instructor relied on teaching a course in Second Life (not a game but it is a game-like world) and all of the materials were only available in SL and part of the course requires that each student participates in SL, then the law says that an alternative must be provided and/or accommodations. This might mean that the student pairs up with someone in the class or that the office for students with disabilities provides this student with someone who can access the class for them. It's a little confusing because the question remains -- what is a reasonable accommodation for a rich, immersive environment like a game? Will the student be able to access the content in an acceptable alternative way? Michelle Hi Sandra, Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) make their information accessible. So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not providing you with an accessible alternative? Cheers Eelke On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to know, > in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. > And what laws are important. > > With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. > And to show that this is an important thing for companies that > are developping games for use in schools. > > Regards, > > Sandra Uhling > _____________________________________________________________________ > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:47:34 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:47:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Community Proposal for GDC (this time not cut off) Message-ID: <20080807174734.BII10418@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hi Eelke! So Mark Bartlet (Editor of AbleGamers that you met at the last GDC) is working on a "community" panel. I'm wondering if it might be an interesting talk to have him discuss how gamers with disabilities are turning to forums like AbleGamers and then have you talk about how you are working on solutions for things like SL -- another community but ones that people can't access (which they then take back to, say, AbleGamers and are able to post reviews. What would you think about that? It doesn't have to be a replacement for the talk you already have -- just another opportunity to present it (and we want to get all the accessibility talks we can get). Question -- do you think that business is the best route for your proposal? I was just wondering if design wouldn't be better but I'm not sure how "number crunchy" your proposal is. Also, I am working on funding to help defray some costs this year (I'm not sure yet about the rules for "sponsored" sessions). As far as submitting it yourself, that's totally fine. I turn in the SIG proposals in one big swoop since I have a special access code -- it's different than the past ones. It has something to do with it being my 5th GDC as a speaker. So that's something to keep in mind but, again, it doesn't have to be cross-listed with IGDA -- it's just an option. I'd love to have you represent both the SIG and your lab at UNR. We're still figuring out the "tech talk" proposal an since you have multiple things you are welcome to also join that panel if you are interested. That one is an IGDA/Programming Track proposal. Anyway, please email me (offlist if possible -- hinn at uiuc.edu) with your thoughts on this. I'm setting up a mini mailing list [see also, a big cc: list] for everyone that can be there and/or want to help but know that they can't attend this year. So if any/all seems like something that you are interested in. Also, you'll be able to show your "latest" at the arcade session! :) WOOOOT! This SIG is on a role right now! So, Eelke, since you live in the casino state, swing by and roll an eight the hard way for extra luck for us this year!!! ;) And, yes, I'm sending this from the hospital that has free wifi...and yes, they have given me something to prep for endoscopy that was supposed to be at 10am...so if I sound crazier than I already am, that's why. ;) Michelle Hi, Sorry I took a little break, so I am trying to catch up on my email. I'd be interested in participation, I'm happy to demo some stuff on the game accessibility arcade like last year. I wrote a proposal for a 60 minute talk for the Business track on the Accessibility of Virtual worlds. We discovered a number of accessibility problems with virtual worlds like Second Life and There and developed two prototype solutions that have the potential to make virtual worlds accessible to the blind and severely physically disabled. I'm not sure if this proposal should be incorporated as part of the IGDA but I'm open to suggestions. Cheers Eelke On 03/08/2008, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake up > tomorrow! Yes, I definitely pegged you for proposal #3 along with Eelke and > Reid (maybe Richard too? Richard -- are you out there?). That will be in the > Programming and IGDA tracks (cross-listed). > > We're getting there! Thanks to everyone who has helped out so far! I cannot > thank you enough -- it's nice to know that, as a group and as individuals, > we're so supportive of each other, especially when there's a health or > family emergency. > > So far (I apologize if I'm missing anyone -- my brain is mush at the > moment) I have the following people interested in participating in GDC 2009: > > Michelle (me) > Mark > Stephanie > Thomas > Richard > Reid > Eelke > Kevin > Barrie (Barrie -- email me off list for additional info) > Eitan > > Others? Dimitris? Giannis? Anyone else? Please do not be offended if I left > you off this list -- it's off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my > email for others! But feel free to speak up and remind me in the meantime!! > > Michelle > > > > Hi Greg, Michelle and others > > > > the specific wiki page we're talking about is this > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 > > > > I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com site, and I'll start > inserting the stuff I get from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now > (Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. Also I'll edit the outline to > fit the content outline Michelle proposed > > > > My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). > > > > Kind regards > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: > > > > > > > I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? > > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > SOUNDMINDZ > > > Music & Sound Design > > > www.GregRahn.net > > > Greg Rahn > > > 707-643-8519 > > > cell 707-246-4922 > > > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic > > > > > > On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Michelle and all, > > > > > > > > I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of > the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have asked > Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) > > > > > > > > (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I > just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, especially > now with the disease). > > > > > > > > Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) > and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out editing the > wiki. > > > > > > > > I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't > have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself (sketchy > version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all follow the GDC > guidelines for submissions it should make the process smooth. I have yet to > do so for my stuff :). > > > > > > > > Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by > August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. > > > > > > > > Have a nice weekend, > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > games_access mailing list > > > > games_access at igda.org > > > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > games_access mailing list > > > games_access at igda.org > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:48:35 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:48:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Thank You! Message-ID: <20080807174835.BII10474@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List From: "d. michelle hinn" Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Yes, this is probably the worst timing for GDC proposals yet but we move on! Thomas -- I will look at everything up there tonight and tomorrow and edit. I was planning to give the weekend to getting everyone into the system and then uploading hopefully on Sunday (to avoid the last minute submissions). Thank you EVERYONE who is helping out -- it's so good to know that people are willing to help out getting the submissions together. So if you have something you want to be submitted by the SIG, now's the time to get it to Thomas and I. And let us know if you are planning to submit something solo so that we aren't waiting for content. IMPORTANT: I do want to make sure that everyone who is planning to go to GDC is on at least one SIG session, even if you are turning in something solo. So make sure that we know (especially me since I'll be doing the online submission!) you intend to be at GDC so that we have you covered in case your solo proposals are not accepted because everyone has something to show at Arcade so we need to have as many of us as possible at GDC. Thanks! Michelle At 9:51 PM +0200 8/7/08, Thomas Westin wrote: Hi Richard! OK, good to know what is stopping you. If I get it tomorrow it's OK, we need you with us! Just want to urge everyone not to send it Saturday night or worse :) Kind regards Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 21.46, AudioGames.net wrote: Hi, Great work! I'll honestly try the find the time tomorrow (have a deadline of my own unfortunately - very bad timing!) so maybe I have to skip this year :( I will be visiting though so at least you'll have one person in your audience otherwise ;) Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Westin To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! Hello Mark, Stephanie, Richard, Reid and Barrie, if you want to present at GDC: this is urgent so please read So far I got responses from Eitan, Eelke and Greg. Greg is so far the only text I've got except my own. I and Kevin had a chat meeting today and will start to work with what texts we have. Kevin works on the Tech Talk, I work on the Access 101 session. The Access Arcade is pretty well covered from last year. We really need more content so please send me texts (off list or preferrably directly at the wiki) as soon as possible - i.e today, please! We now only have Friday left to edit - Monday is needed for the final submissions. I don't want to schedule work for anyone on the weekend although it surely will be so anyway. Even so, having to edit large portions of texts in the very last minute is not a good idea. Kind regards Thomas Begin forwarded message: From: "GDC 2009" <GDC2009 at info.gdconf.com> Date: to 7 aug 2008 18.31.35 GMT+02:00 To: <thomas at pininteractive.com> Subject: Reminder: GDC 2009 Call for Submissions Closes This Monday, Aug. 11 Reply-To: "GDC Newsletter" <GDCnewsletter at cmp.com> Click here to view this newsletter in your browser GDC09 Call for Submissions: Closes Midnight August 11 Inspire Your Peers at GDC09 Dear Thomas, The call for submissions to present lectures, panels, roundtables, tutorials and poster sessions at the 2009 Game Developers Conference (GDC) is closes next Monday, August 11. GDC, the premier professional conference for creators of videogames and interactive entertainment, will take place at San Francisco?s Moscone Convention Center March 23-27, 2009. The submission process has changed! Please review the guidelines and topics prior to submitting a proposal in any of the six tracks: Audio, Business & Management, Design, Production, Programming, and Visual Arts. Use this link to update your contact info and submit a proposal: https://www.cmpevents.com/?M=$FGH1FGEDMG1F1D1D1D1D1EFGHI1D1D You may want to save this personalized URL to return to this page at a later time. This link logs you in automatically, by-passing the password requirement. If you share this link you may be compromising your personal data. For more information, please visit our call for submissions page or contact me. Evelyn Donis Senior Conference Manager edonis at think-services.com Game Developers Conference March 23-27, 2008 Moscone Convention Center San Francisco, California www.gdconf.com Unsubscribe Did someone forward the GDC Update to you? To subscribe: subscribeGDC-ctg0iab6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com You are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in receiving information about events provided by the Think Services Game Group for developers and publishers of electronic games. You are subscribed as thomas at pininteractive.com To unsubscribe from the GDC Update, please forward this message to: unsubscribegdc-ctg0aib6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com Game Developers Conference - Email Unsubscription Think Services Game Group- 600 Harrison St., 6th Floor - San Francisco, CA 94107 - USA _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Thu Aug 7 18:49:05 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:49:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Law 508 Message-ID: <20080807174905.BII10501@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Yeah, I definitely have to agree with Mark and Thomas. As far as I know most every country requires a reasonable accommodation and, yes, personal assistants are often hired by universities to help students with disabilities. With any kind of computer-based instruction it will be a blessing for some and a curse for others. So everything is "case by case" and schools and universities do not have a one size fits all set of rules. So basically, as Mark said, it would be really difficult for a case to go to court. The only thing I can think of that would make a case is if a university flat out says that they are not willing to provide any accommodation and, thus a student might not be able to take courses they need to take for their major. But that is outside the game world and points to a much bigger problem that the school might be dealing with: ignorance. Michelle I think the same goes with similar laws in Sweden for instance too In education the traditional way of coping with accessibility, if it can't be done through modification of the environment, is to hire personal assistants, e.g sign language during a lecture. The problem then when it comes to games in education, is to find personal assistants who are also skillful gamers :) /Thomas On 7 aug 2008, at 20.55, Mark Barlet wrote: Well to chime in on this, because I am in the software biz for the federal government or 10 years here in the Washington DC area, and at one time in my life an expert on 508. Eelke, you are half right here. The only folks that are required to comply with 508 are federal government agencies, and only to the extent of where their data is exposed to the public or employees. Here is what it says... "Section 508 requires that when Federal agencies develop, procure, maintain, or use electronic and information technology, Federal employees with disabilities have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to the access and use by Federal employees who are not individuals with disabilities, unless an undue burden would be imposed on the agency." So, an example here would be the website from the IRS, or forms they allow to be filled out on the web. Those all have to comply with the law. Now that said, many states have adopted state level laws that bring 508 into state level governments, and that is where university come into play. State run university are compelled to comply with 508 once the state adopts the law on a state level. I say all of that to say this, 508 has HUGE LOOPHOLES. You do not need to be 508 compliant if your application, by its nature, cannot be 508 compliant, so let's say a video game. Further, you can also not be 508 compliant if no 508 alternative is available. Part (e) of Section 1194.3 says "(e) This part shall not be construed to require a fundamental alteration in the nature of a product or its components. " So to go back to the original question, in the US I dare say NO GAME is required to be accessible, because one can argue, and be right for the most part that 508 "require a fundamental alteration in the nature of a product or its components. " and also "unless an undue burden would be imposed on the agency". As long as you can argue that there is no way to make said product accessible to persons with disabilities, and still be what it was meant to be, say a game, then it can be excluded from the law... Last point, and this is why I think 508 and games is never going to happen (and I think never should happen) is because 508 is an all or nothing law, you are 508 compliant, or you are not. So if your product can be used by everyone in the world with physical disabilities, and the blind cannot use it, you are not 508? So I would say, and I am no lawyer, but I think you would be hard pressed to sue a school who used a non 508, off the shelf, game as a teaching aid in a classroom, or be sued for using one. NOW, if you are making a game that is designed for school and one of the goals of the game is to help, or train folks with disabilities, I would think that is a marketing thing... You are welcome to contact me directly if you want to yell at me, debate me on the law as it is written or just to say hello. Mark Barlet Editor-in-Chief AbleGamers.com PS sorry for my spelling, I am at work, and not a lot of time to give at the moment. On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Eelke Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com> wrote: Hi Sandra, Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) make their information accessible. So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not providing you with an accessible alternative? Cheers Eelke On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to know, > in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. > And what laws are important. > > With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. > And to show that this is an important thing for companies that > are developping games for use in schools. > > Regards, > > Sandra Uhling > _____________________________________________________________________ > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor Department of CS&E/171 University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 Game interaction design www.eelke.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 20:25:12 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:25:12 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC S.F preparation, status. In-Reply-To: <836db6300808041544w2f0bdf11l7bd16aa71fa968c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4D9F869F-AC31-4AAF-BF15-14DD8A27C30D@pininteractive.com> <496A61A0-C85B-4541-A1DB-4405A856DD56@pininteractive.com> <836db6300808041544w2f0bdf11l7bd16aa71fa968c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Eelke! So Mark Bartlet (Editor of AbleGamers that you met at the last GDC) is working on a "community" panel. I'm wondering if it might be an interesting talk to have him discuss how gamers with disabilities are turning to forums like AbleGamers and then have you talk about how you are working on solutions for things like SL -- another community but ones that people can't access (which they then take back to, say, AbleGamers and are able to post reviews. What would you think about that? It doesn't have to be a replacement for the talk you already have -- just another opportunity to present it (and we want to get all the accessibility talks we can get). Question -- do you think that business is the best route for your proposal? I was just wondering if design wouldn't be better but I'm not sure how "number crunchy" your proposal is. Also, I am working on funding to help defray some costs this year (I'm not sure yet about the rules for "sponsored" sessions). As far as submitting it yourself, that's totally fine. I turn in the SIG proposals in one big swoop since I have a special access code -- it's different than the past ones. It has something to do with it being my 5th GDC as a speaker. So that's something to keep in mind but, again, it doesn't have to be cross-listed with IGDA -- it's just an option. I'd love to have you represent both the SIG and your lab at UNR. We're still figuring out the "tech talk" proposal an since you have multiple things you are welcome to also join that panel if you are interested. That one is an IGDA/Programming Track proposal. Anyway, please email me (offlist if possible -- hinn at uiuc.edu) with your thoughts on this. I'm setting up a mini mailing list [see also, a big cc: list] for everyone that can be there and/or want to help but know that they can't attend this year. So if any/all seems like something that you are interested in. Also, you'll be able to show your "latest" at the arcade session! :) WOOOOT! This SIG is on a role right now! So, Eelke, since you live in the casino state, swing by and roll an eight the hard way for extra luck for us this year!!! ;) And, yes, I'm sending this from the hospital that has free wifi...and yes, they have given me something to prep for endoscopy that was supposed to be at 10am...so if I sound crazier than I already am, that's why. ;) Michelle >Hi, > >Sorry I took a little break, so I am trying to catch up on my email. >I'd be interested in participation, I'm happy to demo some stuff on >the game accessibility arcade like last year. > >I wrote a proposal for a 60 minute talk for the Business track on the >Accessibility of Virtual worlds. We discovered a number of >accessibility problems with virtual worlds like Second Life and There >and developed two prototype solutions that have the potential to make >virtual worlds accessible to the blind and severely physically >disabled. > >I'm not sure if this proposal should be incorporated as part of the >IGDA but I'm open to suggestions. > >Cheers Eelke > > > >On 03/08/2008, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> Great, Thomas -- thanks! You'll have the files by the time you wake up >> tomorrow! Yes, I definitely pegged you for proposal #3 along with Eelke and >> Reid (maybe Richard too? Richard -- are you out there?). That will be in the >> Programming and IGDA tracks (cross-listed). >> >> We're getting there! Thanks to everyone who has helped out so far! I cannot >> thank you enough -- it's nice to know that, as a group and as individuals, >> we're so supportive of each other, especially when there's a health or >> family emergency. >> >> So far (I apologize if I'm missing anyone -- my brain is mush at the >> moment) I have the following people interested in participating in GDC 2009: >> >> Michelle (me) >> Mark >> Stephanie >> Thomas >> Richard >> Reid >> Eelke >> Kevin >> Barrie (Barrie -- email me off list for additional info) >> Eitan > > >> Others? Dimitris? Giannis? Anyone else? Please do not be offended if I left >> you off this list -- it's off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my >> email for others! But feel free to speak up and remind me in the meantime!! >> >> Michelle >> >> >> > Hi Greg, Michelle and others >> > >> > the specific wiki page we're talking about is this >> > http://www.igda.org/wiki/GASIG_GDC_San_Francisco_2009 >> > >> > I have put a structure taken from the gdconf.com site, and I'll start >> inserting the stuff I get from Michelle a.s.a.p. It's late night right now >> (Sunday here) so I'll continue work tomorrow. Also I'll edit the outline to >> fit the content outline Michelle proposed >> > >> > My talk is tech oriented so I'd like to be in number 3 (tech talk). >> > >> > Kind regards >> > Thomas >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 1 aug 2008, at 18.28, Greg Rahn wrote: >> > >> > >> > > I am not familiar with the wiki. Can you fill me in? >> > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????? >> > > >> > > SOUNDMINDZ >> > > Music & Sound Design >> > > www.GregRahn.net >> > > Greg Rahn >> > > 707-643-8519 >> > > cell 707-246-4922 >> > > Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/GregRahnMusic >> > > >> > > On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:32 AM, Thomas Westin wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hello Michelle and all, >> > > > >> > > > I want to help out preparing for GDC but I don't know the status of >> the content so far, i.e what people have submitted to Michelle (have asked >> Michelle but I guess the Lyme disease is stopping her writing) >> > > > >> > > > (Michelle, I hope you don't mind I take some action managing this, I >> just want to do something so you don't end up doing it yourself, especially >> now with the disease). >> > > > >> > > > Putting stuff on the wiki came up earlier this week (or last week?) >> and as Michelle has the Lyme disease I have offered to help out editing the >> wiki. >> > > > >> > > > I suggest that we all put our stuff up on the wiki so Michelle won't >> have to manage it all by herself. I have begun to do so myself (sketchy >> version up right now, easier to write offline). If we all follow the GDC >> guidelines for submissions it should make the process smooth. I have yet to >> do so for my stuff :). >> > > > >> > > > Final deadline is August 11, so if all could please upload texts by >> August 6 it gives me a few days to edit. Thank you. >> > > > >> > > > Have a nice weekend, >> > > > >> > > > Kind regards >> > > > Thomas >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > games_access mailing list >> > > > games_access at igda.org >> > > > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > games_access mailing list >> > > games_access at igda.org >> > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.eelke.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 02:39:01 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 01:39:01 -0500 Subject: [games_access] editing final proposals tomorrow, after 12.00 PST In-Reply-To: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> References: <76207C3C-E9F5-4581-A879-CD13453A4ADF@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Hi Thomas -- I can edit the first three -- just need to compile the bits and pieces together. So mine will come a little later but, again, these are re-writes of stuff. I hit a bad (badder? more bad?) patch today so I was asleep most of today. rrr... Anyway, I really appreciate you and Kevin taking on the editing of the other proposals (at least I hope that there are more than the three I'm doing going up!! :) ) Michelle >Hi all, > >just letting you know, I and Kevin will start editing the proposals >after 12.00 PST (San Francisco time) tomorrow (Thursday) > >So please, upload your stuff to the wiki before then to make this >process as smooth as possible > >Kind regards, >Thomas > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 04:58:37 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 03:58:37 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC San Francisco 2009, just one thought In-Reply-To: References: <381690893@web.de> Message-ID: Also -- we are submitting an "accessibility" intro to help answer the needs of developers who need a "crash course" in accessibility before they attend a programming talk. So at this year's GDC we are trying to meet the needs of people just beginning to learn about accessibility as well as those who want implementation solutions. Michelle >Hi Sandra > >yes, I propose a coding framework for implementation in my master >thesis (GAIM), and Eelke provides design patterns for accessibility. > >Also, mainstream games wih accessibility implemented are e.g >Doom3[CC], Half-life 2 and AudioQuake. Then there also a number of >general / hardware approaches. > >This will be part of the Tech talk session. > >/Thomas > > >On 7 aug 2008, at 10.00, Sandra Uhling wrote: > >>Hello, >> >>this is only one thought: >> >>There is a nice GameOver! Game and some nice GA Rules. >>But how do developer use it ? >>How can they adapt the rules to their game ? >> >>The best way (maybe) is to show an example with a mainstream game. >>For example Need For Speed: >> >>Show how the "Unified Design for UA-Games" works. >>Where to start, how to do it. >>What is important, how to work together with the gamer. >> >>And at the end present an accessible Need for Speed Game Design. >> >>Regards, >>Sandra >>_________________________________________________________________________ >>In 5 Schritten zur eigenen Homepage. Jetzt Domain sichern und gestalten! >>Nur 3,99 EUR/Monat! http://www.maildomain.web.de/?mc=021114 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 16:48:53 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:48:53 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? In-Reply-To: <836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <378857422@web.de> <836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The main thing behind 508 for universities in the US is that a "reasonable accommodation" is made. So, say, the instructor has a flash-based online test that someone in the classroom cannot access due to the fact that the assistive tech that they use is not compatible with the test. The instructor must supply an alternative format for this student and this is usually arranged through an office for students with disabilities. So if an instructor relied on teaching a course in Second Life (not a game but it is a game-like world) and all of the materials were only available in SL and part of the course requires that each student participates in SL, then the law says that an alternative must be provided and/or accommodations. This might mean that the student pairs up with someone in the class or that the office for students with disabilities provides this student with someone who can access the class for them. It's a little confusing because the question remains -- what is a reasonable accommodation for a rich, immersive environment like a game? Will the student be able to access the content in an acceptable alternative way? Michelle >Hi Sandra, > >Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all >federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) >make their information accessible. > > >So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has >to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm >not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not >providing you with an accessible alternative? > >Cheers Eelke > > >On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I would like to know, >> in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. >> And what laws are important. >> >> With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. >> And to show that this is an important thing for companies that >> are developping games for use in schools. >> >> Regards, >> >> Sandra Uhling >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! >> http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >Department of CS&E/171 >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >Game interaction design www.eelke.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 17:09:31 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:09:31 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! In-Reply-To: <04DA27EB-EEE1-4228-92B5-0B6A492B387B@pininteractive.com> References: <71149885-BC71-4719-9D EB-EC4322CCFAF2@pininteractive.com> <001501c8f8c6$444c4000$6402a8c0@Delletje> <04DA27EB-EEE1-4228-92B5-0B6A492B387B@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Yes, this is probably the worst timing for GDC proposals yet but we move on! Thomas -- I will look at everything up there tonight and tomorrow and edit. I was planning to give the weekend to getting everyone into the system and then uploading hopefully on Sunday (to avoid the last minute submissions). Thank you EVERYONE who is helping out -- it's so good to know that people are willing to help out getting the submissions together. So if you have something you want to be submitted by the SIG, now's the time to get it to Thomas and I. And let us know if you are planning to submit something solo so that we aren't waiting for content. IMPORTANT: I do want to make sure that everyone who is planning to go to GDC is on at least one SIG session, even if you are turning in something solo. So make sure that we know (especially me since I'll be doing the online submission!) you intend to be at GDC so that we have you covered in case your solo proposals are not accepted because everyone has something to show at Arcade so we need to have as many of us as possible at GDC. Thanks! Michelle At 9:51 PM +0200 8/7/08, Thomas Westin wrote: >Hi Richard! > >OK, good to know what is stopping you. If I get it tomorrow it's OK, >we need you with us! > >Just want to urge everyone not to send it Saturday night or worse :) > >Kind regards >Thomas > > >On 7 aug 2008, at 21.46, AudioGames.net wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>Great work! I'll honestly try the find the time tomorrow (have a >>deadline of my own unfortunately - very bad timing!) so maybe I >>have to skip this year :( I will be visiting though so at least >>you'll have one person in your audience otherwise ;) >> >>Greets, >> >>Richard >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Thomas Westin >>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:38 PM >>Subject: [games_access] GDC 09: Final Call for texts! >> >>Hello Mark, Stephanie, Richard, Reid and Barrie, >> >>if you want to present at GDC: this is urgent so please read >> >>So far I got responses from Eitan, Eelke and Greg. Greg is so far >>the only text I've got except my own. >> >>I and Kevin had a chat meeting today and will start to work with >>what texts we have. Kevin works on the Tech Talk, I work on the >>Access 101 session. The Access Arcade is pretty well covered from >>last year. >> >>We really need more content so please send me texts (off list or >>preferrably directly at the wiki) as soon as possible - i.e today, >>please! >> >>We now only have Friday left to edit - Monday is needed for the >>final submissions. I don't want to schedule work for anyone on the >>weekend although it surely will be so anyway. Even so, having to >>edit large portions of texts in the very last minute is not a good >>idea. >> >>Kind regards >>Thomas >> >> >> >>Begin forwarded message: >> >>>From: "GDC 2009" <GDC2009 at info.gdconf.com> >>Date: to 7 aug 2008 18.31.35 GMT+02:00 >>To: <thomas at pininteractive.com> >>Subject: Reminder: GDC 2009 Call for Submissions Closes This Monday, Aug. 11 >>Reply-To: "GDC Newsletter" >><GDCnewsletter at cmp.com> >> >> >>Click >>here to view this newsletter in your browser >> >> >> GDC09 Call for Submissions: Closes Midnight August 11 >>Inspire Your Peers at GDC09 >> >>Dear Thomas, >> >>The call for submissions to present lectures, panels, roundtables, >>tutorials and poster sessions at the 2009 Game Developers >>Conference (GDC) is closes next Monday, August 11. >> >>GDC, the premier professional conference for creators of videogames >>and interactive entertainment, will take place at San Francisco's >>Moscone Convention Center March 23-27, 2009. >> >>The submission process has changed! Please review the guidelines >>and topics prior to submitting a proposal in any of the six tracks: >>Audio, Business & Management, Design, Production, Programming, and >>Visual Arts. >> >>Use this link to update your contact info and submit a proposal: >>https://www.cmpevents.com/?M=$FGH1FGEDMG1F1D1D1D1D1EFGHI1D1D >> >>You may want to save this personalized URL to return to this page >>at a later time. This link logs you in automatically, by-passing >>the password requirement. If you share this link you may be >>compromising your personal data. >> >>For more information, please >>visit our >>call for submissions page or contact me. >> >>Evelyn Donis >>Senior Conference Manager >>edonis at think-services.com >> >>Game Developers Conference >>March 23-27, 2008 >>Moscone Convention Center >>San Francisco, California >>www.gdconf.com >> >> >>Unsubscribe >>Did someone forward the GDC Update to you? To >>subscribe: subscribeGDC-ctg0iab6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com You >>are receiving this email because you've expressed interest in >>receiving information about events provided by the Think Services >>Game Group for developers and publishers of electronic games. >> >>You are subscribed >>as thomas at pininteractive.com >>To unsubscribe from the GDC Update, please forward this message >>to: unsubscribegdc-ctg0aib6yaad4saai2d2wbejwi3hakfa at info.gdconf.com >> >>Game Developers Conference - Email Unsubscription >>Think Services Game Group- 600 Harrison St., 6th Floor - San >>Francisco, CA 94107 - USA >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 17:22:57 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:22:57 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Accessibility and laws ? In-Reply-To: <55635C73-6961-49DA-8290-0568C5607708@pininteractive.com> References: <378857422@web.de><836db6300808070745l5ffc4a73qf805820e8b243bc5@mail.gmail .com> <191870b70808071155j1c8d438vaf270c8b53147b6f@mail.gmail.com> <55635C73-6961-49DA-8290-0568C5607708@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I definitely have to agree with Mark and Thomas. As far as I know most every country requires a reasonable accommodation and, yes, personal assistants are often hired by universities to help students with disabilities. With any kind of computer-based instruction it will be a blessing for some and a curse for others. So everything is "case by case" and schools and universities do not have a one size fits all set of rules. So basically, as Mark said, it would be really difficult for a case to go to court. The only thing I can think of that would make a case is if a university flat out says that they are not willing to provide any accommodation and, thus a student might not be able to take courses they need to take for their major. But that is outside the game world and points to a much bigger problem that the school might be dealing with: ignorance. Michelle >I think the same goes with similar laws in Sweden for instance too > >In education the traditional way of coping with >accessibility, if it can't be done through >modification of the environment, is to hire >personal assistants, e.g sign language during a >lecture. The problem then when it comes to games >in education, is to find personal assistants who >are also skillful gamers :) > >/Thomas > >On 7 aug 2008, at 20.55, Mark Barlet wrote: > >>Well to chime in on this, because I am in the >>software biz for the federal government or 10 >>years here in the Washington DC area, and at >>one time in my life an expert on 508. >> >>Eelke, you are half right here. The only folks >>that are required to comply with 508 are >>federal government agencies, and only to the >>extent of where their data is exposed to the >>public or employees. Here is what it says... >> >>"Section 508 requires that when Federal >>agencies develop, procure, maintain, or use >>electronic and information technology, Federal >>employees with disabilities have access to and >>use of information and data that is comparable >>to the access and use by Federal employees who >>are not individuals with disabilities, unless >>an undue burden would be imposed on the agency." >> >>So, an example here would be the website from >>the IRS, or forms they allow to be filled out >>on the web. Those all have to comply with the >>law. >> >>Now that said, many states have adopted state >>level laws that bring 508 into state level >>governments, and that is where university come >>into play. State run university are compelled >>to comply with 508 once the state adopts the >>law on a state level. >> >>I say all of that to say this, 508 has HUGE >>LOOPHOLES. You do not need to be 508 compliant >>if your application, by its nature, cannot be >>508 compliant, so let's say a video game. >>Further, you can also not be 508 compliant if >>no 508 alternative is available. >> >>Part (e) of Section 1194.3 says "(e) This part >>shall not be construed to require a fundamental >>alteration in the nature of a product or its >>components. " >> >>So to go back to the original question, in the >>US I dare say NO GAME is required to be >>accessible, because one can argue, and be right >>for the most part that 508 "require a >>fundamental alteration in the nature of a >>product or its components. " and also "unless >>an undue burden would be imposed on the >>agency". As long as you can argue that there is >>no way to make said product accessible to >>persons with disabilities, and still be what it >>was meant to be, say a game, then it can be >>excluded from the law... >> >>Last point, and this is why I think 508 and >>games is never going to happen (and I think >>never should happen) is because 508 is an all >>or nothing law, you are 508 compliant, or you >>are not. So if your product can be used by >>everyone in the world with physical >>disabilities, and the blind cannot use it, you >>are not 508? So I would say, and I am no >>lawyer, but I think you would be hard pressed >>to sue a school who used a non 508, off the >>shelf, game as a teaching aid in a classroom, >>or be sued for using one. >> >>NOW, if you are making a game that is designed >>for school and one of the goals of the game is >>to help, or train folks with disabilities, I >>would think that is a marketing thing... >> >>You are welcome to contact me directly if you >>want to yell at me, debate me on the law as it >>is written or just to say hello. >> >>Mark Barlet >>Editor-in-Chief >>AbleGamers.com >> >> >>PS sorry for my spelling, I am at work, and not >>a lot of time to give at the moment. >> >>On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Eelke >>Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>Hi Sandra, >> >>Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all >>federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding) >>make their information accessible. >> >> >>So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has >>to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm >>not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not >>providing you with an accessible alternative? >> >>Cheers Eelke >> >> >> >>On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling >><sandra_uhling at web.de> >>wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I would like to know, >>> in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible. >>> And what laws are important. >>> >>> With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it. >>> And to show that this is an important thing for companies that >>> are developping games for use in schools. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Sandra Uhling >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft >>>bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! >>> http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor >>Department of CS&E/171 >>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557 >>Game interaction design www.eelke.com >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Aug 8 08:13:44 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:13:44 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Tech talk (was: Re: Michelle's email server not working) In-Reply-To: References: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <8399139E-148F-4198-A1A5-633FA5210FA9@pininteractive.com> Hi Reid OK cool I've noted that now. /Thomas On 8 aug 2008, at 00.33, Reid Kimball wrote: > I've been very busy with my job searching but I do want to participate > in the tech talk like Michelle and I talked about earlier. Let me know > if you need more info from me. From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Aug 8 08:48:12 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:48:12 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Michelles e-mail server problems Message-ID: <157F111D-29E5-493C-9D79-C11DB6E23F64@pininteractive.com> Just if someone has missed this info: > Thomas -- can you forward the message below to the list? I'm having > EXTREME technical difficulties... Thanks! > > Hi all, > > I've been sending out messages all week that apparently i not > actually get sent as I am just discovering. UIUC is now in the > process of changing to illinois.edu and our ISP just became > comcast.net and so basically? My email is majorly messed up. > > Anyway, I will be going through what is on the wiki tonight and > tomorrow. I was planning on using the weekend for getting last > minute stuff together so no worries there. THANK YOU to all who have > been helping, especially Thomas and Kevin who have been collecting > text from everyone this week and editing stuff. Apparently I > couldn't JUST have Lyme disease and all the diseases it is related > to -- I have to have internet problems as well! Super Fun! > > So if you have been wondering why I haven't responded to you...that > is why. I can only access my email through the university webmail > interface, which is very annoying and very limited. I'll be > resending emails tonight. > > Michelle From thomas at pininteractive.com Fri Aug 8 16:27:09 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:27:09 +0200 Subject: [games_access] wiki updated Message-ID: hi now the wiki is updated with what we've got /thomas Pin Interactive AB Digital Culture :: Analysis :: Tools :: Worlds www.pininteractive.com Skype ID: thomaswestin Phone: +46 (0)706 400 402 Time zone: GMT+1 , PST+9 From hinn at uiuc.edu Thu Aug 7 20:32:18 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:32:18 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Sorry in advance for all the email!! In-Reply-To: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <20080807172957.BII09320@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Hi everyone, Well my networking issues are now fixed so quite a few emails that I re-sent an hour ago just were sent for the first time...uh, now. Ok, I've confused myself on that. Anyway, my apologies for the excess email. Now, at least, I know things are really getting sent out...yeesch... Michelle From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Aug 10 17:53:39 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:53:39 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC -- Final Info on Phase One -- New! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm now getting the "phase 1" proposals in final order for GDC 2009. The submission process is a LOT different than it's been in the past (pasted below). We used to just wait until November and just received a "sorry your proposal was not accepted" or a "congrats your proposal was accepted" with no other explanation. Not this year... So our proposal work is not yet done (or at least we hope not...see next paragraph...) We will know very quickly if our proposals are rejected outright or conditionally accepted -- we will then need to resubmit the conditionally accepted proposals with the LONG version of the talks (I was wondering where that 4000-5000 word bit went!). We'll need to turn that around before November. After that, it will go back in review and we'll wait to hear whether or not we are officially accepted or rejected -- I've been told that we'll hear this sometime in November but possibly as late as December. So...given that GDC is from Feb 18-22, 2009 that does not leave people a whole lot of time to get travel arrangements, hotel, etc. and, yeah, that kind of sucks. So make sure your travel planning is flexible and that you can cancel plans if needed. Obviously this new system is good and bad. It's good because it will force all presenters to start planning their sessions well ahead of time and thus we'll have better sessions this year (hopefully!). It's also the first time we have EVER had the chance to receive feedback on our proposals. But...It's bad because we cannot submit the defense of our proposals (the 5000 word bit from the past) until it's been accepted through the open submission cycle. We are limited to a 400 word description. Any proposal that is rejected during this first phase...that's that. There is no other recourse. We might get one of the VERY few IGDA "second chance" slots but there are no guarantees. As soon as I hear back about the submissions, I will let everyone know so that we can (hopefully, finger's crossed, etc) start attacking the resubmissions. Sooo...good luck to us! Special thanks to Thomas and Kevin for their editing work! Now we wait and hope we get to go through this again in another month! :) Michelle ---- PHASE ONE (July 7th - August 11th, 2008) Initial Open Submission Cycle This is what we are finishing now PHASE TWO (August 11th - early September 2008) First Review and Resubmit Cycle * Advisory Board reviews submissions * Submitters are notified of their status: Declined or Conditionally Accepted * Submitters of Conditionally Accepted talks will be required at this time to prepare a largely complete presentation plan (which includes the presentation materials such as PPT slides) for Phase Three review* *Note: You are not a fully accepted speaker until your presentation plan is reviewed and approved by the advisory board PHASE THREE (November 2008) Final Review Cycle * Advisory Board reviews largely complete presentation plans, PPT slides, etc. * Submitters are notified of their final status: Declined or Accepted * Submitters who miss the deadline to submit their presentation plans for review will be automatically declined; exceptions will not be made * Submitters who sent in their presentation plans by the deadline but were not accepted to speak will receive a discount on a conference pass -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Sun Aug 10 17:57:05 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:57:05 +0200 Subject: [games_access] GDC -- Final Info on Phase One -- New! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <652EC331-0150-4C86-B6E1-8F13C61C3E20@pininteractive.com> Michelle, please note: the gdconf site says 08 still at the top, so Feb 18-22 is GDC 08! if you look at bit down on the start page, you'll find the 09 dates, which are GDC 2009 takes place: March 23-27, /Thomas On 10 aug 2008, at 23.53, d. michelle hinn wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm now getting the "phase 1" proposals in final order for GDC 2009. > The submission process is a LOT different than it's been in the past > (pasted below). We used to just wait until November and just > received a "sorry your proposal was not accepted" or a "congrats > your proposal was accepted" with no other explanation. Not this > year... > > So our proposal work is not yet done (or at least we hope not...see > next paragraph...) > > We will know very quickly if our proposals are rejected outright or > conditionally accepted -- we will then need to resubmit the > conditionally accepted proposals with the LONG version of the talks > (I was wondering where that 4000-5000 word bit went!). We'll need to > turn that around before November. > > After that, it will go back in review and we'll wait to hear whether > or not we are officially accepted or rejected -- I've been told that > we'll hear this sometime in November but possibly as late as December. > > So...given that GDC is from Feb 18-22, 2009 that does not leave > people a whole lot of time to get travel arrangements, hotel, etc. > and, yeah, that kind of sucks. So make sure your travel planning is > flexible and that you can cancel plans if needed. > > Obviously this new system is good and bad. It's good because it will > force all presenters to start planning their sessions well ahead of > time and thus we'll have better sessions this year (hopefully!). > It's also the first time we have EVER had the chance to receive > feedback on our proposals. But...It's bad because we cannot submit > the defense of our proposals (the 5000 word bit from the past) until > it's been accepted through the open submission cycle. We are limited > to a 400 word description. Any proposal that is rejected during this > first phase...that's that. There is no other recourse. We might get > one of the VERY few IGDA "second chance" slots but there are no > guarantees. > > As soon as I hear back about the submissions, I will let everyone > know so that we can (hopefully, finger's crossed, etc) start > attacking the resubmissions. > > Sooo...good luck to us! Special thanks to Thomas and Kevin for their > editing work! Now we wait and hope we get to go through this again > in another month! :) > > Michelle > > ---- > > PHASE ONE (July 7th - August 11th, 2008) > Initial Open Submission Cycle > > This is what we are finishing now > > PHASE TWO (August 11th - early September 2008) > First Review and Resubmit Cycle > > * Advisory Board reviews submissions > * Submitters are notified of their status: Declined or > Conditionally Accepted > * Submitters of Conditionally Accepted talks will be required at > this time to prepare a largely complete presentation plan (which > includes the presentation materials such as PPT slides) for Phase > Three review* > > *Note: You are not a fully accepted speaker until your > presentation plan is reviewed and approved by the advisory board > > PHASE THREE (November 2008) > Final Review Cycle > > * Advisory Board reviews largely complete presentation plans, > PPT slides, etc. > * Submitters are notified of their final status: Declined or > Accepted > * Submitters who miss the deadline to submit their presentation > plans for review will be automatically declined; exceptions will not > be made > * Submitters who sent in their presentation plans by the > deadline but were not accepted to speak will receive a discount on a > conference pass > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Aug 10 18:12:14 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:12:14 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC -- Final Info on Phase One -- New! In-Reply-To: <652EC331-0150-4C86-B6E1-8F13C61C3E20@pininteractive.com> References: <652EC331-0150-4C86-B6E1-8F13C61C3E20@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: Haha! Why on earth haven't they changed that? Well, ok, that gives us a month of breathing room so things aren't AS crazy as I thought! It's still kind of crazy...but the crazy has been downgraded in intensity. ;) Michelle >Michelle, > >please note: the gdconf site says 08 still at the top, so Feb 18-22 is GDC 08! > >if you look at bit down on the start page, you'll find the 09 dates, which are >GDC 2009 takes place: March 23-27, > >/Thomas > >On 10 aug 2008, at 23.53, d. michelle hinn wrote: > >>Hi everyone, >> >>I'm now getting the "phase 1" proposals in final order for GDC >>2009. The submission process is a LOT different than it's been in >>the past (pasted below). We used to just wait until November and >>just received a "sorry your proposal was not accepted" or a >>"congrats your proposal was accepted" with no other explanation. >>Not this year... >> >>So our proposal work is not yet done (or at least we hope not...see >>next paragraph...) >> >>We will know very quickly if our proposals are rejected outright or >>conditionally accepted -- we will then need to resubmit the >>conditionally accepted proposals with the LONG version of the talks >>(I was wondering where that 4000-5000 word bit went!). We'll need >>to turn that around before November. >> >>After that, it will go back in review and we'll wait to hear >>whether or not we are officially accepted or rejected -- I've been >>told that we'll hear this sometime in November but possibly as late >>as December. >> >>So...given that GDC is from Feb 18-22, 2009 that does not leave >>people a whole lot of time to get travel arrangements, hotel, etc. >>and, yeah, that kind of sucks. So make sure your travel planning is >>flexible and that you can cancel plans if needed. >> >>Obviously this new system is good and bad. It's good because it >>will force all presenters to start planning their sessions well >>ahead of time and thus we'll have better sessions this year >>(hopefully!). It's also the first time we have EVER had the chance >>to receive feedback on our proposals. But...It's bad because we >>cannot submit the defense of our proposals (the 5000 word bit from >>the past) until it's been accepted through the open submission >>cycle. We are limited to a 400 word description. Any proposal that >>is rejected during this first phase...that's that. There is no >>other recourse. We might get one of the VERY few IGDA "second >>chance" slots but there are no guarantees. >> >>As soon as I hear back about the submissions, I will let everyone >>know so that we can (hopefully, finger's crossed, etc) start >>attacking the resubmissions. >> >>Sooo...good luck to us! Special thanks to Thomas and Kevin for >>their editing work! Now we wait and hope we get to go through this >>again in another month! :) >> >>Michelle >> >>---- >> >>PHASE ONE (July 7th - August 11th, 2008) >>Initial Open Submission Cycle >> >>This is what we are finishing now >> >>PHASE TWO (August 11th - early September 2008) >>First Review and Resubmit Cycle >> >> * Advisory Board reviews submissions >> * Submitters are notified of their status: Declined or >>Conditionally Accepted >> * Submitters of Conditionally Accepted talks will be required >>at this time to prepare a largely complete presentation plan (which >>includes the presentation materials such as PPT slides) for Phase >>Three review* >> >> *Note: You are not a fully accepted speaker until your >>presentation plan is reviewed and approved by the advisory board >> >>PHASE THREE (November 2008) >>Final Review Cycle >> >> * Advisory Board reviews largely complete presentation plans, >>PPT slides, etc. >> * Submitters are notified of their final status: Declined or Accepted >> * Submitters who miss the deadline to submit their presentation >>plans for review will be automatically declined; exceptions will >>not be made >> * Submitters who sent in their presentation plans by the >>deadline but were not accepted to speak will receive a discount on >>a conference pass >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at uiuc.edu Sun Aug 10 18:22:31 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:22:31 -0500 Subject: [games_access] GDC -- Final Info on Phase One -- New! In-Reply-To: References: <652EC331-0150-4C86-B6E1-8F13C61C3E20@pininteractive.com> Message-ID: And if that wasn't confusing enough...most of the page headers on the site say GDC 2007. Lol... Michelle >Haha! Why on earth haven't they changed that? Well, ok, that gives >us a month of breathing room so things aren't AS crazy as I thought! >It's still kind of crazy...but the crazy has been downgraded in >intensity. ;) > >Michelle > >>Michelle, >> >>please note: the gdconf site says 08 still at the top, so Feb 18-22 >>is GDC 08! >> >>if you look at bit down on the start page, you'll find the 09 >>dates, which are >>GDC 2009 takes place: March 23-27, >> >>/Thomas >> >>On 10 aug 2008, at 23.53, d. michelle hinn wrote: >> >>>Hi everyone, >>> >>>I'm now getting the "phase 1" proposals in final order for GDC >>>2009. The submission process is a LOT different than it's been in >>>the past (pasted below). We used to just wait until November and >>>just received a "sorry your proposal was not accepted" or a >>>"congrats your proposal was accepted" with no other explanation. >>>Not this year... >>> >>>So our proposal work is not yet done (or at least we hope >>>not...see next paragraph...) >>> >>>We will know very quickly if our proposals are rejected outright >>>or conditionally accepted -- we will then need to resubmit the >>>conditionally accepted proposals with the LONG version of the >>>talks (I was wondering where that 4000-5000 word bit went!). We'll >>>need to turn that around before November. >>> >>>After that, it will go back in review and we'll wait to hear >>>whether or not we are officially accepted or rejected -- I've been >>>told that we'll hear this sometime in November but possibly as >>>late as December. >>> >>>So...given that GDC is from Feb 18-22, 2009 that does not leave >>>people a whole lot of time to get travel arrangements, hotel, etc. >>>and, yeah, that kind of sucks. So make sure your travel planning >>>is flexible and that you can cancel plans if needed. >>> >>>Obviously this new system is good and bad. It's good because it >>>will force all presenters to start planning their sessions well >>>ahead of time and thus we'll have better sessions this year >>>(hopefully!). It's also the first time we have EVER had the chance >>>to receive feedback on our proposals. But...It's bad because we >>>cannot submit the defense of our proposals (the 5000 word bit from >>>the past) until it's been accepted through the open submission >>>cycle. We are limited to a 400 word description. Any proposal that >>>is rejected during this first phase...that's that. There is no >>>other recourse. We might get one of the VERY few IGDA "second >>>chance" slots but there are no guarantees. >>> >>>As soon as I hear back about the submissions, I will let everyone >>>know so that we can (hopefully, finger's crossed, etc) start >>>attacking the resubmissions. >>> >>>Sooo...good luck to us! Special thanks to Thomas and Kevin for >>>their editing work! Now we wait and hope we get to go through this >>>again in another month! :) >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>---- >>> >>>PHASE ONE (July 7th - August 11th, 2008) >>>Initial Open Submission Cycle >>> >>>This is what we are finishing now >>> >>>PHASE TWO (August 11th - early September 2008) >>>First Review and Resubmit Cycle >>> >>> * Advisory Board reviews submissions >>> * Submitters are notified of their status: Declined or >>>Conditionally Accepted >>> * Submitters of Conditionally Accepted talks will be required >>>at this time to prepare a largely complete presentation plan >>>(which includes the presentation materials such as PPT slides) for >>>Phase Three review* >>> >>> *Note: You are not a fully accepted speaker until your >>>presentation plan is reviewed and approved by the advisory board >>> >>>PHASE THREE (November 2008) >>>Final Review Cycle >>> >>> * Advisory Board reviews largely complete presentation plans, >>>PPT slides, etc. >>> * Submitters are notified of their final status: Declined or Accepted >>> * Submitters who miss the deadline to submit their >>>presentation plans for review will be automatically declined; >>>exceptions will not be made >>> * Submitters who sent in their presentation plans by the >>>deadline but were not accepted to speak will receive a discount on >>>a conference pass >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Mon Aug 11 07:21:53 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:21:53 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Documents Information about GA ? Message-ID: <385860242@web.de> Hello, I am looking for an overview about documents about GA Topics. Maybe the resources of Game Accessibility can be added to the wiki list ? http://www.game-accessibility.com/index.php?pagefile=papers This page is still empty :-( http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Game_Accessibility_SIG/Conference_Slides&action=edit When I cannot go to the conferences, where do I find the information, videos, documents, pictures, slides ? Does someone know how a AUI (Audio User Interface) document is made ? A template would be great. Regards, Sandra _____________________________________________________________________ Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Mon Aug 11 12:54:50 2008 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:54:50 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Documents Information about GA ? In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkbzAA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIxkbzAA Message-ID: <003301c8fbd2$f8400bf0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Check out the videogame design books there are so many of them out there now. They have templates and all the information you need for how to create documents. To create accessibility documents I would just suggest to be creative and innovative and simple. Robert -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:22 AM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: [games_access] Documents Information about GA ? Hello, I am looking for an overview about documents about GA Topics. Maybe the resources of Game Accessibility can be added to the wiki list ? http://www.game-accessibility.com/index.php?pagefile=papers This page is still empty :-( http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Game_Accessibility_SIG/Conference_S lides&action=edit When I cannot go to the conferences, where do I find the information, videos, documents, pictures, slides ? Does someone know how a AUI (Audio User Interface) document is made ? A template would be great. Regards, Sandra _____________________________________________________________________ Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at illinois.edu Mon Aug 11 17:22:44 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:22:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Documents Information about GA ? Message-ID: <20080811162244.BIK42319@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hi Sandra, The IGDA is switching over to a new web system so everything is in the midst of being transferred so I'm not sure when everything will be back up in the new system. Are you working on a specific project that we can assist you on or are you just wanting to learn more in general? We're a very small group so sometimes we get behind in posting things -- we also just had the GDC deadline. So anyway, if you could help us out in knowing what to help you with then we could get the information to you easier! :) Thanks so much! Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:21:53 +0200 >From: Sandra Uhling >Subject: [games_access] Documents Information about GA ? >To: games_access at igda.org > >Hello, > >I am looking for an overview about documents about GA Topics. > >Maybe the resources of Game Accessibility can be added to the wiki list ? >http://www.game-accessibility.com/index.php?pagefile=papers > >This page is still empty :-( >http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php?title=Game_Accessibility_SIG/Conference_Slides&action=edit > >When I cannot go to the conferences, >where do I find the information, videos, documents, pictures, slides ? > > >Does someone know how a AUI (Audio User Interface) document is made ? >A template would be great. > >Regards, >Sandra >_____________________________________________________________________ >Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! >http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066 > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Aug 12 11:14:44 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:14:44 +0200 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20 Message-ID: <387459212@web.de> Hello, at the moment I try to learn all in general. One question is, how much cost the tracking systems. Head-tracking and Eye-Tracking,... I am wondering if CamSpace.com is cheaper for this. And maybe with the very good possibility to emulate what you want how you want, it is very flexible. At games for health, it was and is still possible to see some slides of the conference, this helped me a lot. There I also found the presentation about GameOver! Thank you very much for your point of views about the law and the practice behind it. Another question is, (maybe someone know something) how is the situation in Germany. Are there questions from german developer ? Was there a Game Accessibility session somewhere, or an article in a magazine ? When I have learned enough, I will try to work easy understanding short articles, that I will post in a xing group. Regards, Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Tue Aug 12 14:53:13 2008 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:53:13 -0400 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykdDAA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIykdDAA Message-ID: <007701c8fcac$ac9883f0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Way too expensive to expect every gamer to be able to afford it. I have one that is $1000, the other one is $300. Have to think about the game are if it's a computer game by game has to be able to be played at least on the basic operating system. If they happen by any accessories it's not really acceptable to accept them to spend more than one or $200 to maybe that is okay. I read an e-mail here from someone in this group, that they can turn a normal web cam into a motion tracker for free. Maybe someone remembers that could give the information again. Head mouse extreme. Naturalpoint.com Robert www.RobertFlorio.com -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:15 AM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20 Hello, at the moment I try to learn all in general. One question is, how much cost the tracking systems. Head-tracking and Eye-Tracking,... I am wondering if CamSpace.com is cheaper for this. And maybe with the very good possibility to emulate what you want how you want, it is very flexible. At games for health, it was and is still possible to see some slides of the conference, this helped me a lot. There I also found the presentation about GameOver! Thank you very much for your point of views about the law and the practice behind it. Another question is, (maybe someone know something) how is the situation in Germany. Are there questions from german developer ? Was there a Game Accessibility session somewhere, or an article in a magazine ? When I have learned enough, I will try to work easy understanding short articles, that I will post in a xing group. Regards, Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at illinois.edu Tue Aug 12 15:24:42 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:24:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20 Message-ID: <20080812142442.BIL17737@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hi Sandra! That's great that you are here to learn more about game accessibility. I was wondering what you meant by posting what you learn in xing account? Is that a news site? Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:14:44 +0200 >From: Sandra Uhling >Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20 >To: games_access at igda.org > >Hello, > >at the moment I try to learn all in general. > >One question is, how much cost the tracking systems. >Head-tracking and Eye-Tracking,... > >I am wondering if CamSpace.com is cheaper for this. >And maybe with the very good possibility to emulate >what you want how you want, it is very flexible. > > >At games for health, it was and is still possible to >see some slides of the conference, this helped me a lot. >There I also found the presentation about GameOver! > >Thank you very much for your point of views about the >law and the practice behind it. > >Another question is, (maybe someone know something) >how is the situation in Germany. >Are there questions from german developer ? >Was there a Game Accessibility session somewhere, >or an article in a magazine ? > >When I have learned enough, >I will try to work easy understanding short articles, >that I will post in a xing group. > >Regards, >Sandra > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: >http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From sandra_uhling at web.de Wed Aug 13 10:14:44 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:14:44 +0200 Subject: [games_access] tracker and xing Message-ID: <388683635@web.de> Hello, Xing: this is something like LinkedIn. But they have groups with forums. I got an invitation to the group, where all the (important) game business people of germany are. They are interested in my topics: exergaming, game accessiblity,... I think that this is a very great chance for me. It would take too long to wait for article in a magazine. Also I can answer questions directly. Tracker: Oh, they are sooo expensive ? I am a beta tester for the CamSpace.com. Normally it is planed to play it with something colorful in your hands. But why not put something colorful on your head ? I will try this out with dasher. The program where you can "drive" through the alphabet and write text. Also there will be "Zcam" made by 3DV Systems soon available. This is a very good 3D camera, 180 USD ? Regards, Sandra Uhling ____________________________________________________________ Gro?es Kino f?r zu Hause - Kostenlos f?r alle WEB.DE Nutzer! Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.blockbuster.web.de From ioo at ablegamers.com Fri Aug 15 08:19:58 2008 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:19:58 -0400 Subject: [games_access] AbleGamers Posts Interview from Blizzard's J. Allen Brack, Production Director of World of Warcraft Message-ID: <191870b70808150519w69bd4542jf79ab3f3b4cdc2c8@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, First off, I want to say that this interview was a long time coming. As we spoke in the past Blizzard has not been real helpful in the past when the disabled community would reach out to them, so this is a beg deal for us. That said, they did not just come to us and say, "Hey we would like to do an interview with you!" Nope, this took a lot of work on the part of Steph and I, with Michelle as an accomplice, Some of the story is in the interview header, but some of the details have been left out, someday if you meet me in person, ask for the full story, because it is a funny one, that I choose not to have forever documented in an email. Second, this is an interview that was a long time coming, but to be honest they would not do it live, they wanted to do it via text, I think they wanted to think about the answers a lot before they gave them, so it is not a dynamic read.. Lastly, there is hope... we have a live interview from 2 of the producers of Diablo 3, and it is good, we were just waiting for this interview before we posted it... We also have a schedule to get something about starcraft soon. Please go and take a look, post a comment, and all and all participate over at AbleGamers. http://ablegamers.com/Disabled-Gamers-News/KISSING-AbleGamers-Talks-to-Blizzard.html Have a good weekend! Mark Barlet AbleGamers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Fri Aug 15 14:31:26 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:31:26 +0200 Subject: [games_access] scene it... "controller that anybody can use " ? Message-ID: <391666545@web.de> Hi, I saw the video about three new Xbox360 games. The person said ? [...] controller that anybody can use [...] ? That I want to see, how every gamer can use it. They should be more careful with what they say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDvSiKbC9Z8 Regards, Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ StudiVZ, MeinVZ, StayFriends,... die gr??ten Communities treffen sich im WEB.DE MultiMessenger! https://produkte.web.de/messenger/?lp=1/&did=3110 From arthit73 at cablespeed.com Fri Aug 15 15:03:39 2008 From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:03:39 -0400 Subject: [games_access] scene it... "controller that anybody can use " ? In-Reply-To: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwkizAA References: AAAAADBf8GSYa4xDlD4sBa5lcIwkizAA Message-ID: <009001c8ff09$a0ff3ed0$6501a8c0@Inspiron> Yep. That's flipping funny. LOL -----Original Message----- From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:31 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: [games_access] scene it... "controller that anybody can use " ? Hi, I saw the video about three new Xbox360 games. The person said ? [...] controller that anybody can use [...] ? That I want to see, how every gamer can use it. They should be more careful with what they say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDvSiKbC9Z8 Regards, Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ StudiVZ, MeinVZ, StayFriends,... die gr??ten Communities treffen sich im WEB.DE MultiMessenger! https://produkte.web.de/messenger/?lp=1/&did=3110 _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at uiuc.edu Fri Aug 15 18:32:45 2008 From: hinn at uiuc.edu (d. michelle hinn) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:32:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] scene it... "controller that anybody can use " ? In-Reply-To: <391666545@web.de> References: <391666545@web.de> Message-ID: Yes, I have them -- and we talked a bit about them on the list. They came out about maybe a year ago in the US? And you are right -- it is NOT the controller "anybody" can use. I emailed friends of mine at Microsoft and they would not comment on the accessibility of the controller. The good part about it is that it *is* accessible to more people and really could be repurposed as a controller for other games if they wanted to start getting serious about accessibility. But again...they make no comment. Microsoft has an entire division/group that works in accessibility...everywhere but at the game studios. We have a very strange relationship with them (Disclaimer: and, years ago, I worked at Microsoft Games). Michelle >Hi, > >I saw the video about three new Xbox360 games. >The person said " [...] controller that anybody can use [...] " > >That I want to see, how every gamer can use it. > >They should be more careful with what they say. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDvSiKbC9Z8 > >Regards, >Sandra >________________________________________________________________________ >StudiVZ, MeinVZ, StayFriends,... die gr??ten Communities treffen sich im >WEB.DE MultiMessenger! https://produkte.web.de/messenger/?lp=1/&did=3110 > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From jbannick at 7128.com Sun Aug 17 09:13:48 2008 From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 09:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [games_access] (no subject) Message-ID: <1123.76.119.124.119.1218978828.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Reid et al, Here's an interesting new tool for the deaf. BBC: Helping the deaf to 'see sound' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7558017.stm John Bannick 7-128 Software From jbannick at 7128.com Sun Aug 17 09:14:47 2008 From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 09:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [games_access] Seeing Sound Message-ID: <1125.76.119.124.119.1218978887.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Reid et al, Here's a new tool for the deaf: BBC: Helping the Deaf See Sound http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7558017.stm John Bannick 7-128 Software From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Aug 17 17:21:37 2008 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:21:37 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Feel games... Message-ID: <8763A1761D2349398CFC8475117FEB8B@oneswitch> "Computer graphics already provide stunning visuals and now designers are trying to make the feeling of playing games as realistic as possible. This includes simulating what it feels like to be sliced with a sword or to have cockroaches crawling on your arm. Designers Hirouki Kajimoto and Kanako Matsuo spoke to the BBC's Rajesh Mirchandani about this latest innovation. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7562336.stm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Aug 17 18:34:32 2008 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:34:32 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Retro Remakes 2008 Competition Blog Message-ID: <3AE5EC3E2AB54EC0896D937F967730CC@oneswitch> via: http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/2008/08/retro-remakes-competition-2008-blog.html " It's coming... This could be something really special for accessible gaming... If you can program keep an eye... If you can support the competition, please do, whether by sponsorship or by spreading the word... More soon." http://oddbob.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cindy.dalfovo at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 11:03:51 2008 From: cindy.dalfovo at gmail.com (Cindy Dalfovo) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:03:51 -0300 Subject: [games_access] Feel games... Message-ID: <6b590db10808180803x3e1501etdcce9ca18b53a872@mail.gmail.com> Wow, that's amazing... not just for acessibility, but to create REALLY imersive games... Even though I wouldn't want to test that "feel the cockroaches crawling up your arm" thing... eeew. Any bets on how many years 'till something like that hits the market? > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:21:37 +0100 > From: "Barrie Ellis" > Subject: [games_access] Feel games... > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: <8763A1761D2349398CFC8475117FEB8B at oneswitch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > "Computer graphics already provide stunning visuals and now designers are > trying to make the feeling of playing games as realistic as possible. > This includes simulating what it feels like to be sliced with a sword or to > have cockroaches crawling on your arm. > > Designers Hirouki Kajimoto and Kanako Matsuo spoke to the BBC's Rajesh > Mirchandani about this latest innovation. " > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7562336.stm > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20080817/fbc38668/attachment-0001.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kestrell at panix.com Mon Aug 18 11:25:15 2008 From: kestrell at panix.com (Kestrell) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:25:15 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Feel games... References: <6b590db10808180803x3e1501etdcce9ca18b53a872@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008101c90146$9db0adb0$0201000a@Galatea> I wonder if this has any potential use for medical training programs--it would allow medical care providers to experience to some degree the sort of symtoms their patients experience, which could go a long way to addressing medical care providers opinions about the level of pain and discomfort a patient is feeling. Kestrell ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Dalfovo To: games_access at igda.org Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Feel games... Wow, that's amazing... not just for acessibility, but to create REALLY imersive games... Even though I wouldn't want to test that "feel the cockroaches crawling up your arm" thing... eeew. Any bets on how many years 'till something like that hits the market? Message: 1 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:21:37 +0100 From: "Barrie Ellis" Subject: [games_access] Feel games... To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Message-ID: <8763A1761D2349398CFC8475117FEB8B at oneswitch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "Computer graphics already provide stunning visuals and now designers are trying to make the feeling of playing games as realistic as possible. This includes simulating what it feels like to be sliced with a sword or to have cockroaches crawling on your arm. Designers Hirouki Kajimoto and Kanako Matsuo spoke to the BBC's Rajesh Mirchandani about this latest innovation. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7562336.stm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreversublime at hotmail.com Mon Aug 18 11:41:02 2008 From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:41:02 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Feel games... In-Reply-To: <008101c90146$9db0adb0$0201000a@Galatea> References: <6b590db10808180803x3e1501etdcce9ca18b53a872@mail.gmail.com> <008101c90146$9db0adb0$0201000a@Galatea> Message-ID: Kestrell, I'm not exactly sure how one of these could emulate the pain and discomfort associated with America's health care system. *wink From: kestrell at panix.comTo: games_access at igda.orgDate: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:25:15 -0400Subject: Re: [games_access] Feel games... I wonder if this has any potential use for medical training programs--it would allow medical care providers to experience to some degree the sort of symtoms their patients experience, which could go a long way to addressing medical care providers opinions about the level of pain and discomfort a patient is feeling.Kestrell ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Dalfovo To: games_access at igda.org Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [games_access] Feel games... Wow, that's amazing... not just for acessibility, but to create REALLY imersive games...Even though I wouldn't want to test that "feel the cockroaches crawling up your arm" thing... eeew.Any bets on how many years 'till something like that hits the market? Message: 1Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:21:37 +0100From: "Barrie Ellis" Subject: [games_access] Feel games...To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Message-ID: <8763A1761D2349398CFC8475117FEB8B at oneswitch>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1""Computer graphics already provide stunning visuals and now designers are trying to make the feeling of playing games as realistic as possible.This includes simulating what it feels like to be sliced with a sword or to have cockroaches crawling on your arm.Designers Hirouki Kajimoto and Kanako Matsuo spoke to the BBC's Rajesh Mirchandani about this latest innovation. "http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7562336.stm-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: _______________________________________________games_access mailing listgames_access at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _________________________________________________________________ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Aug 19 16:33:30 2008 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:33:30 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Future Making Serious Games Message-ID: <91937C5DD5A6450EBFAD446FDDE68656@oneswitch> Nice supportive blog post here: http://elianealhadeff.blogspot.com/2008/08/serious-games-as-vehicle-for.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Wed Aug 20 05:16:12 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:16:12 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Awards and Accessibility criterion ? Message-ID: <396052441@web.de> Hello, I saw the description of the European Innovative Games Award - EIGA http://www.hessen-it.eu/dynasite.cfm?dsmid=8903# They do not have an accessibility criterion. I think that is not good. :-( It would be great, when accessibility can become a (important) criterion in awards. @Barrie Maybe you can put in an accessible controller ? Deadline is soon!!!!!! Regards Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ StudiVZ, MeinVZ, StayFriends,... die gr??ten Communities treffen sich im WEB.DE MultiMessenger! https://produkte.web.de/messenger/?lp=1/&did=3110 From sandra_uhling at web.de Wed Aug 20 15:27:39 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:27:39 +0200 Subject: [games_access] keyboard for PS3 controller instead of "dasher" ? Message-ID: <396749915@web.de> Hello, I got this link today: http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/08/20/playstation-3-keypad-coming-soon/ I would prefer a solution like "dasher". It is easy to use, easy to learn. And you do not need special hardware. For me it seems that in the future we need three hands for gaming :-( Regards, Sandra ________________________________________________________________________ Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html From reid at rbkdesign.com Wed Aug 20 15:36:20 2008 From: reid at rbkdesign.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:36:20 -0700 Subject: [games_access] keyboard for PS3 controller instead of "dasher" ? In-Reply-To: <396749915@web.de> References: <396749915@web.de> Message-ID: It would be nice to have something like Dasher in addition to this. I can see uses for both. Some may prefer a keyboard like device rather than software. It's all about giving people the options to access the games how they want to. -Reid On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:27 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > > I got this link today: > http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/08/20/playstation-3-keypad-coming-soon/ > > I would prefer a solution like "dasher". > It is easy to use, easy to learn. > And you do not need special hardware. > > For me it seems that in the future we need three hands for gaming :-( > > Regards, > Sandra > ________________________________________________________________________ > Schon geh?rt? Bei WEB.DE gibt' s viele kostenlose Spiele: > http://games.entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/games/free/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > From hinn at illinois.edu Wed Aug 20 22:08:14 2008 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Death in the family Message-ID: <20080820210814.BIR78600@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you know that I have been out of town due to my partner's sister not doing well. Sadly, she passed away today. I'll be back Sunday night but I just wanted to drop a quick line to you all in case you have emailed me privately and I haven't responded yet. Thanks everyone, Michelle Chairperson, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From gramenos at ics.forth.gr Fri Aug 22 08:47:54 2008 From: gramenos at ics.forth.gr (Dimitris Grammenos) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:47:54 +0300 Subject: [games_access] FW: Video Gamers and Science Message-ID: <002401c90455$4b8cf4f0$26ba5b8b@ics.forth.gr> Hello everyone, Pat (see his message below) needs some help with an on-line survey for his master thesis which is targeted to video game players. BTW, 5 iPods will be raffled off... Cheers, Dimitris --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Video Gamer I study psychology at the University of Basel in Switzerland and I'm passionate about playing Video Games (since birth). So, it's obvious that the topic of my master thesis is about Video Gamers, isn't it? ;-) (Don't worry! I won't push neither the addiction nor the violence question any further! I want to know more about the Video Gamers themselves.) Now I'm looking for you Video Gamers. This survey can be completed online on every browser in about 10 to 15 minutes. You would do me (and the research of Video Games) a big favor, if you could take part and ev. forward my survey to other Video Gamers you know. (I, unfortunately, had to learn, that it's not easy at all to find enough Video Gamers for my study.) I really hope you can help me! By the way, amongst all participants 5 iPods will be raffled off!!! Link to the survey: http://phpserver.psycho.unibas.ch/videogames_en/ Thank you so much! You would do me a real favor!! Best regards Pat ===================================== Patrick Keller, B.Sc. Department of Cognitive Psychology and Methodology University of Basel Faculty of Psychology Missionstrasse 62A 4055 Basel Switzerland www.psycho.unibas.ch/keller www.psycho.unibas.ch/mmi www.psycho.unibas.ch ===================================== From sandra_uhling at web.de Fri Aug 22 11:15:57 2008 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:15:57 +0200 Subject: [games_access] European Innovative Games Award - EIGA Message-ID: <399431325@web.de> Hello, I got the answer. They do not have Game Accessibility as official criterion. But they do consider it. And it is very important for them. That sound good. I got today the information, that there will again start an European accessibility project. I will send more information, when I get them. Regards, Sandra _________________________________________________________________________ In 5 Schritten zur eigenen Homepage. Jetzt Domain sichern und gestalten! Nur 3,99 EUR/Monat! http://www.maildomain.web.de/?mc=021114 From agdev at thechases.com Mon Aug 25 06:55:45 2008 From: agdev at thechases.com (Tim Chase) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:55:45 -0500 Subject: [games_access] Voice-controlled joystick Message-ID: <48B28FB1.2010103@thechases.com> Another fun bit of AT that crossed my radar today: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10024508-52.html a voice-controlled joystick with at least enough precision to draw a pretty good rendition of some Mt. Fiji, as well as play a simple game. Enjoy, -tim From thomas at pininteractive.com Tue Aug 26 15:56:32 2008 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:56:32 +0200 Subject: [games_access] fragpedal Message-ID: found this, Barrie, have you tried this one? http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8e46/detail/ /Thomas From ioo at ablegamers.com Tue Aug 26 16:27:00 2008 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:27:00 -0400 Subject: [games_access] fragpedal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <191870b70808261327t5b4e5495od5311d0cd88d5c06@mail.gmail.com> Over at AbleGamers they sent us 2 of them. We gave them away on the site. You can see our review of them http://ablegamers.com/Peripheral-Reviews/Fragpedal-Elite-From.html they are very cool, I own a set... the buttons do require a little force to activate, but you can map ANY key to them via the software. The other cool thing is that the mapping is stored in the hardware, so you can move them to another PC and they will work without the software installed. Mark Barlet AbleGamers.com On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Thomas Westin wrote: > found this, Barrie, have you tried this one? > http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8e46/detail/ > /Thomas > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Aug 27 05:40:06 2008 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:40:06 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Magnetic Tongue Controller - War Twat High Visibility Version - Design Tips For: Eye Tracker Games, One Switch Games and Head Tracker Games References: Message-ID: <0230579EE2FF40BA8431D2B4D64DB698@oneswitch> > found this, Barrie, have you tried this one? > > http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8e46/detail/ > /Thomas Hi Thomas, Yes thanks - it's in the Accessible Gaming Shop under various - but I appreciate the thought - as it's hard to keep abreast of all the new stuff that comes out: http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/1/AGS/AGS-various.htm And a little bit of self-promotion for this one-off: http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/1/AGS/AGS-large/foot-joy.htm Have you seen this? http://rnt.over-blog.com/article-22276938.html http://www.ece.gatech.edu/research/labs/gt-bionics/index_files/TongueDrive.htm - Magnetic tongue piercing to control mouse / wheelchair movement! There's a minute snippet of it being used to play a mouse based game. And whilst I'm here... High visibility adaptation to "War Twat": http://newretro.org/games/2008/08/22/colour-blinded-by-war-twat/ And building up to the new Retro Remakes 2008 competition: Design Tips For: Eye Tracker Games - http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2008/08/design-tips-for-eye-tracker-games.html Design Tips For: One Switch Games - http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2008/08/design-tips-for-one-switch-games.html Design Tips For: Head Tracker Games - http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2008/08/design-tips-for-head-tracker-games.html Really hoping to see some games aimed at Eye Tracker gamers as there aren't many out there at all. Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sun Aug 31 15:03:15 2008 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:03:15 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Retro Remakes Big Compo 2008: A Game For Helen Message-ID: Retro Remakes ?A Game for Helen" competition links up with the Special Effect project of the same name to bring an inclusive arcade experience to kids and young adults in the hospices Helen and Douglas House. This is especially aimed at bringing games to those who cannot play arcade type games using conventional controls due to disability. This category of the Retro Remakes competition will be looking for entrants to create accessible updated counterparts of real or imagined arcade games from the 1920's to date. These can include mechanical, electro-mechanical and video games. Basically - anything at all you might find in an amusement arcade through the ages. Hopes? Eye Tracker and One Switch compatible games for PCs with some good additional accessibility features/options (more on that later). Genres? Pinball, Fortune Telling Machines, Crane Machines, Fruit Machines, Bowling games, Shooting Gallery, Horse Racing games, Whack-a-mole, Shove-a-penny, Pool, Air Hockey, Pachinko, Table Football, Atari SteepleChase for one or more players, something with big explosions in, humour... Anything! You may ask how on earth do I create a game for Eye Trackers or for a single switch? Fear not ? if you have a mouse, a left-mouse button and a space bar ? you have all the hardware you need. Next? Follow these links to ?Design Tips For Eye Tracker Games? and ?Design Tips for One Switch Games? for more. Extra accessibility features? ?Barriers in Games: Why Can?t They Play?? still stands as a very useful guide. But really - anything you can imagine. Just don?t forget to make your game fun for as many people as you can. Useful Links: Retro Remakes 2008 Big Compo Page Retro Remakes Competition Forum Retro Remakes Accessibility Assistance Forum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: