[games_access] (no subject)
Matt Troup
foreversublime at hotmail.com
Sat Jun 14 22:34:57 EDT 2008
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Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:34:56 -0700
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I feel like approaching this in a very practical way -
Language barriers are the largest barrier between a game and the participant
with the largest reward. If a person can't read the game or can't hear it
they aren't likely to experience it. I'm not talking about blind and
deafness - I'm talking about translations. Until you can convince a
developer to translate a game for people living in China, India, Korea - and
any other market that's larger than America's you're going to be
hard-pressed to convince them to hit a microcap market. These types of
language barriers are no different than any other that prevent the
understanding of a game, and they are every bit as a "social rights" issue
as stated earlier. Of course, then comes the question of editing content
for different regions - this is a much greater discussion than can fit in
this email at this time (because Reid could probably filibuster all of us on
the topic of edited content right here and now).
I believe the "for everyone" concept is completely western, and amazing
backwards (in a good way, perhaps) to the rest of the way we typically live.
Everyone can have fun, but no one should be forced to cater and pander to
anyone else's wants and needs because they have a right to have fun.
There's no reason to for a developer to apologize in this way for everyone
being different, and we will have to accept these facts of life - unless, we
want our entire lives edited to be "socially" acceptable to every
demographic.
The middle line I see is something akin to... well, what we have, but bigger
and more accessible (meaning people needing accessible gaming need to know
there's accessible community trying to meet their needs). The NBA is every
bit as culturally relevant as games, but they shouldn't be forced to edit
their content to allow someone in a wheelchair to play in the league. We
can broaden that to "sports", and that's how we get the special olympics (I
admit that sounds dated), and even the WNBA. There's a separation, but it's
fair, and it's the best thing for everyone involved - participants and fans
alike.
Does that make any applicable sense? Immediately, the idea comes to mind
for MMO games to have accessible "servers" (not sure what their called
exactly - the area where you choose what table/map with everyone you want to
play with before you enter the world). However, games already are separated
based on skill. Is(n't) that enough? Would it be more beneficial for a
company to set aside accessible servers so at the very least gamers with
needs know they're welcome to play (a hospitable, inviting atmosphere where
you don't have to "explain yourself")?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:23 PM
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
> I agree with Barrie and I'd like to expand the idea of "right to fun"
> to something bigger. The right to fun is one part of a larger right to
> participate in society. As games become more culturally relevant to a
> society, they will help us examine and participate in the shaping of
> who we are as people. If we neglect to include everyone in this
> examination and participation, we won't become the kind of society we
> ought to become.
>
> -Reid
>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Barrie Ellis
> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:
>> Again - I would say that in the UK - the word Handicap is now generally
>> tied
>> up with a lot of negative baggage. Many believe (wrongly or rightly) that
>> it's linked to "cap in hand" begging - others consider it an inherently
>> negative word anyway. As Reid said - if you remove the barriers from a
>> "disabled person" - in context - you'll just describe them as a person...
>> That's what we're aiming at - smashing the barriers.
>>
>> Also - the W.H.O. is a medical based organisation. Accessible gaming to
>> me
>> will always be about social rights - and not about medical conditions. A
>> gamer has these abilities - so how can they play game X,Y,Z? Am I
>> repeating
>> myself?! (I'll shut up after this for a bit I promise): The right to fun.
>>
>> Barrie
>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer"
>> <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 5:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>
>>
>>> Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>> I never really thought about the difference but your taxonomy seems
>>> intuitive and straightforward.
>>>
>>> Cheers Eelke
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/06/2008, Thomas Westin <thomas at pininteractive.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The World Health Organization has a definition which makes a difference
>>>> between disability and handicap, where disability is related to the
>>>> individual, while handicap is related to the environment. In other
>>>> words,
>>>> if
>>>> you're in a wheel chair, you are handicapped in a building with high
>>>> thresholds. By removing the thresholds (read: making it accessible) you
>>>> remove the handicap, but you are still disabled.
>>>>
>>>> I think that is a good distinction
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11 jun 2008, at 18.59, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Language is a contentious issue and I respect that you have a different
>>>> opinion, Matthias. I just personally feel that certain phrases don't
>>>> particularly tie up with disability rights - which is what the Game
>>>> Accessibility movement is all about to my mind. I still feel that you
>>>> are
>>>> approaching this field from a Medical standpoint - rather that a Social
>>>> rights stand point.
>>>>
>>>> Barrie
>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Matthias Troup
>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>>>
>>>> Kestrel, Perhaps I (and others) read it as this: If these are people
>>>> without disabilities in the offensive sense... who aren't suffering in
>>>> their
>>>> environment... what would they need help with, and why would anyone be
>>>> helping? I think Eitans choice of words is fine since his cause was a
>>>> constructive effort for accessibility. At least, I feel hints of
>>>> emotion
>>>> help make any thesis a little less dry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > From: kestrell at panix.com
>>>> > To: games_access at igda.org
>>>> > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:57:14 -0400
>>>> > Subject: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>>> >
>>>> > Regarding appropriate language, I'm not sure I see where you are
>>>> disagreeing
>>>> > with my original post. I used the word "disability," and the site you
>>>> linked
>>>> > to, which the wonderful BBC online disability magazine, Ouch!, also >
>>>> > uses
>>>> the
>>>> > word "disability." I totally agree with the list provided in the >
>>>> > article
>>>> as
>>>> > being offensive words, including the word "special."
>>>> >
>>>> > Granted the fifth day of ninety degree weather here in Boston is >
>>>> > melting
>>>> my
>>>> > brain, but what did I miss?
>>>> >
>>>> > Kes
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Barrie Ellis" <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk>
>>>> > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>>>> > <games_access at igda.org>
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:54 AM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > > Hi Eitan,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I actually disagree with Kestrell's "people first stand point" with
>>>> > > "people with disabilities" (although I did used to use it myself).
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I've
>>>> > > long since prefered "disabled people" linking to people being > >
>>>> > > disabled
>>>> by
>>>> > > society / the inaccessibility of their environment.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Take a look through this item:
>>>> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3708576.stm.
>>>> > > Plus this on the Social Model and Medical Model of diability:
>>>> > >
>>>> http://inclusion.uwe.ac.uk/inclusionweek/articles/socmod.htm
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Barrie
>>>> > > www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: "Kestrell" <kestrell at panix.com>
>>>> > > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >
>>>> > > <games_access at igda.org>
>>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:42 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> Eitan,
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> I seem to have missed your original post in which you posted the >
>>>> > >> >> link,
>>>> > >> but here are some thoughts on language and disability:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Certain words and phrases tend to really be button words, as in
>>>> > >> they
>>>> will
>>>> > >> typically hit many readers' buttons, and the phrase "suffering
>>>> > >> from"
>>>> > >> > >> is
>>>> > >> definitely one of those phrases. Often the phrase can be deleted
>>>> > >> altogether, leaving the phrase "people with disabilities" or
>>>> > >> "people
>>>> with
>>>> > >> visual impairments" or "visually-impaired gamers," etc. The
>>>> > >> informal
>>>> rule
>>>> > >> is that the individuals you are discussing are "people first," as
>>>> > >> mentioned in this online article
>>>> > >> http://iod.unh.edu/press.html
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> and here is a link which includes links to writing about
>>>> > >> disability,
>>>> > >> language to use in interviewing people with disabilities, and more
>>>> > >> resources
>>>> > >> http://ncdj.org/links.html
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Kes
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> ---- Original Message -----
>>>> > >> From: "Eitan Glinert" <glinert at mit.edu>
>>>> > >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >>
>>>> > >> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:29 PM
>>>> > >> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>> Wow, awesome! Thanks for the feedback, I think you are the only >
>>>> > >>> >>> person
>>>> > >>> outside of MIT to have actually read this. Comments below.
>>>> > >>> Eitan
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Barrie Ellis
>>>> > >>> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> > >>>> Hi Eitan,
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> I've read through your thesis "The Human Controller"...
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Had these thoughts...
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Didn't like some of the language used. "Suffering from -
>>>> > >>>> impaired
>>>> > >>>> people -
>>>> > >>>> handicapped". All pretty crusty old terms with negative > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> connotations.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: Point taken. Any suggestions for better terms?<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Not sure about the controller analysis in Chapter 1 - there's
>>>> > >>>> been
>>>> > >>>> Driving
>>>> > >>>> controllers and light guns since the 70's for many games > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> consoles -
>>>> > >>>> which
>>>> > >>>> are fairly natural feeling interfaces and have been popular in
>>>> > >>>> the
>>>> > >>>> past.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: I guess in chapter one I'm trying to draw general strokes >
>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>about
>>>> > >>>>>>UIs, saying that they generally weren't adopted by a mainstream
>>>> > >>>>>>audience. Perhaps I should make this more explicit, though<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> "Even if it is possible to remap controls it is not always >
>>>> > >>>> >>>>
>>>> > >>>> advisable
>>>> to
>>>> > >>>> do
>>>> > >>>> so. Frequently part of the fun of a game is the interface, and
>>>> changing
>>>> > >>>> it
>>>> > >>>> without forethought is potentially detrimental. In the pervious
>>>> example
>>>> > >>>> of
>>>> > >>>> Wii Sports tennis part of the fun is actually swinging the >
>>>> > >>>> >>>>
>>>> > >>>> controller
>>>> > >>>> as if
>>>> > >>>> it were a racket. If this functionality were changed to pressing
>>>> > >>>> a
>>>> > >>>> button
>>>> > >>>> then much of the game's charm and fun would be lost.". I'm not >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> happy
>>>> > >>>> with
>>>> > >>>> this statement personally - I'd like to see multiple-layers of
>>>> > >>>> accessibility
>>>> > >>>> (much like Dimitris "Parallel Universes" theory). Why can't a
>>>> > >>>> four
>>>> > >>>> player
>>>> > >>>> game of Wii Sports allow player 1 to use the Wii-remote - player
>>>> > >>>> 2
>>>> > >>>> > >>>> to
>>>> > >>>> use a
>>>> > >>>> standard JoyPad - player 3 to use a single button and player 4
>>>> > >>>> to
>>>> > >>>> > >>>> use
>>>> > >>>> an
>>>> > >>>> adapted Wii-remote with blue-tooth stereo head-set to relay
>>>> > >>>> personalised
>>>> > >>>> timing sounds (think of live singers having a click track that >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> only
>>>> > >>>> they can
>>>> > >>>> hear) in an ideal world? You mention this type of thing later as
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> if
>>>> > >>>> it's a
>>>> > >>>> good thing - so I find this early statement a bit overly
>>>> > >>>> negative.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: I agree with what you say, which is why I discuss such
>>>> > >>>>>>themes
>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>in
>>>> > >>>>>>chapter 2. I guess the reason I have that negative statement >
>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>early
>>>> on
>>>> > >>>>>>is because I wanted to acknowledge the tradeoff early on, even
>>>> before
>>>> > >>>>>>I get to the sections on tradeoffs. I also wanted to make it >
>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>clear
>>>> > >>>>>>that I don't feel accessibility is a magic bullet, even if it
>>>> > >>>>>>is
>>>> > >>>>>>almost always applicable.<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> "Games have evolved tremendously over the past few decades, as
>>>> > >>>> advancements
>>>> > >>>> in technology have led to amazingly realistic and engaging >
>>>> > >>>> >>>>
>>>> > >>>> offerings,
>>>> > >>>> while
>>>> > >>>> shifts in player demographics indicate the widespread popularity
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> of
>>>> > >>>> video
>>>> > >>>> games. Despite these changes many different disabled groups are
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> still
>>>> > >>>> unable
>>>> > >>>> to play most titles due to inaccessible UIs.." - Would argue
>>>> > >>>> that
>>>> too.
>>>> > >>>> I'd
>>>> > >>>> agree that most Blind gamers would be in that boat (those with >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> very
>>>> > >>>> little
>>>> > >>>> usable sight) - but a better statement might have been "many
>>>> different
>>>> > >>>> disabled groups are faced with deeply frustrating barriers with
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> many
>>>> > >>>> main-stream games". I know Deaf gamers might struggle at certain
>>>> points
>>>> > >>>> of
>>>> > >>>> certain games - and gamers using a single button frequently have
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> to
>>>> > >>>> rely
>>>> > >>>> upon a friend/helper to take on extra controls and so on - but >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> they
>>>> can
>>>> > >>>> still play.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: Good suggestion, thanks! I might make a change to the >
>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>argument
>>>> on
>>>> > >>>>>>the online version.<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Chaper 2
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> "Game controls should be as simple as possible, but no
>>>> > >>>> simpler." -
>>>> Not
>>>> > >>>> really sure what you're saying here.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: Simplicity is good, but you don't want to go overboard. You
>>>> don't
>>>> > >>>>>>want to cut out critical game elements or features in the name
>>>> > >>>>>>of
>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>a
>>>> > >>>>>>"cleaner" UI. Maybe that's not clear? <<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> 2.5 "a rhythm title like Guitar Hero which focuses on music will
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> not
>>>> > >>>> work
>>>> > >>>> for the hearing impaired, and it is probably not possible to
>>>> > >>>> make
>>>> > >>>> > >>>> an
>>>> > >>>> accessible version." - I don't agree with this. Deaf gamers as a
>>>> whole
>>>> > >>>> covers a very broad range of hearing ability. There will be many
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> deaf
>>>> > >>>> gamers
>>>> > >>>> perfectly able to play Guitar Hero. Even those unable to hear at
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> all
>>>> > >>>> might
>>>> > >>>> enjoy such a game - did you see Deaf Gamers 8.5/10 review score:
>>>> > >>>> http://www.deafgamers.com/07reviews_a/gh3_x360.html
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>EG: Wow, I flubbed this one. I'm going to have to change the
>>>> language
>>>> > >>>>>>on this. Good catch, thanks!<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> But aside from this, I frequently found myself in full agreement
>>>> > >>>> >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> with
>>>> > >>>> the
>>>> > >>>> majority of your thesis - and did enjoy reading it. Thanks for >
>>>> > >>>> >>>> making
>>>> > >>>> it
>>>> > >>>> publicly available.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>>>>Great, thanks so much!<<<
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> Barrie
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eitan Glinert" > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> <glinert at mit.edu>
>>>> > >>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>>>> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:50 PM
>>>> > >>>> Subject: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Good news, everyone! In a surprise twist, I'm graduating! I
>>>> > >>>>> know
>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> a
>>>> lot
>>>> > >>>>> of you are interested in my thesis, so you can check it out at
>>>> > >>>>> web.mit.edu/glinert/www/thesis . I'm happy to answer questions
>>>> > >>>>> >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> about
>>>> > >>>>> it, and I welcome feedback (both positive and negative).
>>>> > >>>>> Special
>>>> > >>>>> thanks to Dimitris, Eelke, Michelle, and Reid for all their
>>>> > >>>>> help
>>>> > >>>>> answering my questions over the months.
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> In case you're not sure whether it is worth reading, here's
>>>> > >>>>> some
>>>> more
>>>> > >>>>> info:
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> TITLE: The Human Controller: Usability and Accessibility in
>>>> > >>>>> Video
>>>> Game
>>>> > >>>>> Interfaces
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> ABSTRACT:
>>>> > >>>>> Despite the advances in user interfaces and the new gaming >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> genres,
>>>> not
>>>> > >>>>> all people can play all games - disabled people are frequently
>>>> > >>>>> excluded from game play experiences. On the one hand this adds
>>>> > >>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>> > >>>>> list of discriminations disabled people face in our society, >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> while
>>>> on
>>>> > >>>>> the other hand actively including them potentially results in >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> games
>>>> > >>>>> that are better for everyone. The largest hurdle to involvement
>>>> > >>>>> >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> is
>>>> the
>>>> > >>>>> user interface, or how a player interacts with the game. >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Analyzing
>>>> > >>>>> usability and adhering to accessibility design principles makes
>>>> > >>>>> >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> it
>>>> > >>>>> both possible and practical to develop fun and engaging game
>>>> > >>>>> user
>>>> > >>>>> interfaces that a broader range of the population can play. To
>>>> > >>>>> demonstrate these principles we created AudiOdyssey, a PC
>>>> > >>>>> rhythm
>>>> game
>>>> > >>>>> that is accessible to both sighted and non-sighted audiences.
>>>> > >>>>> By
>>>> > >>>>> following accessibility guidelines we incorporated a novel
>>>> combination
>>>> > >>>>> of features resulting in a similar play experience for both >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> groups.
>>>> > >>>>> Testing AudiOdyssey yielded useful insights into which
>>>> > >>>>> interface
>>>> > >>>>> elements work and which don't work for all users. Finally a
>>>> > >>>>> case
>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> is
>>>> > >>>>> made for considering accessibility when designing future
>>>> > >>>>> versions
>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> of
>>>> > >>>>> gaming user interfaces, and speculative scenarios are presented
>>>> > >>>>> >
>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> for
>>>> > >>>>> what such interfaces might look like.
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Eitan
>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>> > >>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>>> games_access mailing list
>>>> > >>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>> games_access mailing list
>>>> > >>> games_access at igda.org
>>>> > >>>
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >> games_access mailing list
>>>> > >> games_access at igda.org
>>>> > >>
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > games_access mailing list
>>>> > > games_access at igda.org
>>>> > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > games_access mailing list
>>>> > games_access at igda.org
>>>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>>> Department of CS&E/171
>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>>> Game interaction design www.eelke.com
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> games_access mailing list
>>> games_access at igda.org
>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>>
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