From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Jun 1 17:14:16 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:14:16 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller Message-ID: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be realised... Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and voice recognition: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathalie at gamefwd.org Tue Jun 2 06:17:43 2009 From: nathalie at gamefwd.org (Nathalie Caron) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 06:17:43 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> Message-ID: <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> Hi Barrie, and group: I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some way to go in order for it to be accessible to all. I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He has CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed to adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice device). I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - Tobi was it?) I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have to look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to use their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the ability to implement something like this en masse. I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by having already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. Nathalie http://gamefwd.org On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis wrote: > Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be realised... > > Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and voice > recognition: > > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willwade at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 14:13:57 2009 From: willwade at gmail.com (will wade) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:13:57 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> Its a interesting development. I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch this space.. w 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : > Hi Barrie, and group: > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some way to > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He has > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed to > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice device). > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - Tobi > was it?) > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have to > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to use > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the ability to > implement something like this en masse. > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by having > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. > > Nathalie > http://gamefwd.org > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > wrote: >> >> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be realised... >> >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and voice >> recognition: >> >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >> >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jun 2 15:39:12 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:39:12 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same problems as the Wii - i.e. Not being able to adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as regards how fast and how broad movements are is a real loss. Very rare support for alternative controllers to be used. I could well imagine that Natal car game being controlled by expressions alone if needed. Maybe Microsoft will encourage developers to offer alternative ways to play - perhaps leant and stored as part of the Avatar system from the off to share between different games. It's early days - anything is possible... How do we best get this message to Microsoft though? Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "will wade" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller > Its a interesting development. > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch > this space.. > > w > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : >> Hi Barrie, and group: >> >> I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of >> potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some way >> to >> go in order for it to be accessible to all. >> >> I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He >> has >> CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed to >> adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice >> device). >> I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as >> well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice >> (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - >> Tobi >> was it?) >> >> I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have >> to >> look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to >> use >> their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the ability >> to >> implement something like this en masse. >> >> I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by >> having >> already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. >> >> Nathalie >> http://gamefwd.org >> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >> >> wrote: >>> >>> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be realised... >>> >>> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and voice >>> recognition: >>> >>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >>> >>> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Jun 2 15:57:29 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:57:29 +0200 Subject: [games_access] =?iso-8859-15?q?Wii_Controller=2C_was_Project_Nata?= =?iso-8859-15?q?l=3A_Microsoft=27s_Alternative_Controller?= Message-ID: <747291728@web.de> Hi Barrie, > Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same problems as the Wii - i.e. Not > being able to adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as regards how fast > and how broad movements are is a real loss. Maybe a development from exergaming will help. At the moment I do not know much about it. They developed something to make the use of Wii much more like sport. Make it can work also in the other direction? I hope I will get more information soon. Best regards, Sandra ___________________________________________________________________ WEB.DE FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss f?r 17,95 Euro/mtl.! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From nathalie at gamefwd.org Tue Jun 2 17:38:16 2009 From: nathalie at gamefwd.org (Nathalie Caron) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:38:16 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d1b7eb60906021438m1ab494a6gf9696ef346eaa633@mail.gmail.com> My answer to your question Barrie, is to write, write, write about it. The more we bring attention to it, the more likely Microsoft is to take notice. Nathalie On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Barrie Ellis wrote: > Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same problems as the Wii - i.e. Not > being able to adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as regards how fast > and how broad movements are is a real loss. Very rare support for > alternative controllers to be used. > > I could well imagine that Natal car game being controlled by expressions > alone if needed. Maybe Microsoft will encourage developers to offer > alternative ways to play - perhaps leant and stored as part of the Avatar > system from the off to share between different games. It's early days - > anything is possible... > > How do we best get this message to Microsoft though? > > Barrie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "will wade" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative > Controller > > > > Its a interesting development. >> I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to >> children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if >> the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement >> of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a >> certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, >> and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is >> currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch >> this space.. >> >> w >> >> 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : >> >>> Hi Barrie, and group: >>> >>> I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of >>> potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some way >>> to >>> go in order for it to be accessible to all. >>> >>> I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He >>> has >>> CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed to >>> adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice >>> device). >>> I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as >>> well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice >>> (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - >>> Tobi >>> was it?) >>> >>> I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have >>> to >>> look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to >>> use >>> their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the ability >>> to >>> implement something like this en masse. >>> >>> I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by >>> having >>> already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. >>> >>> Nathalie >>> http://gamefwd.org >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis < >>> barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be realised... >>>> >>>> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and voice >>>> recognition: >>>> >>>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >>>> >>>> >>>> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jun 2 17:45:05 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:45:05 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Fw: [OneSwitch.org.uk blog] Forza 3: One Switch Mode Message-ID: <7921D135CCA24AF3B30018EA7C2D609D@OneSwitch> E3 witnessed the announcement of a "one-button driving assist" mode for Turn 10's Forza Motorsport 3 on the Xbox 360. That. Is. Very. Good. News. Can't wait to see if it is what I hope it is: A current generation racing game that is one-switch playable and fun. Part of Turn 10's Press release: It?s easy to go for a spin: ?Forza Motorsport 3? redefines the racing genre. Simulation games can be too hard for some players. ?Forza Motorsport 3? rises above the distinction between simulation and arcade games. Using a myriad of cutting-edge driving and gameplay assist such as auto-braking, gameplay rewind and auto-tuning, ?Forza Motorsport 3? delivers an experience where everyone can have fun behind the wheel, regardless of your skill and dexterity. Whether you?re a newcomer or a seasoned racing game pro, ?Forza Motorsport 3? caters to how you drive and evolves with you over time as your skills increase. Many thanks to RetroRemakes twitter for the tip. -- Posted By OneSwitch.org.uk to OneSwitch.org.uk blog on 6/02/2009 09:58:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ioo at ablegamers.com Tue Jun 2 18:08:28 2009 From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:08:28 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <2d1b7eb60906021438m1ab494a6gf9696ef346eaa633@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906021438m1ab494a6gf9696ef346eaa633@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11AE1681-D125-4105-A025-6374F2E5F22E@ablegamers.com> Microsoft has taken notice. More details later. Mark Sent from mobile device. On Jun 2, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Nathalie Caron wrote: > My answer to your question Barrie, is to write, write, write about > it. The more we bring attention to it, the more likely Microsoft is > to take notice. > > Nathalie > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Barrie Ellis > wrote: > Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same problems as the Wii - > i.e. Not being able to adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as > regards how fast and how broad movements are is a real loss. Very > rare support for alternative controllers to be used. > > I could well imagine that Natal car game being controlled by > expressions alone if needed. Maybe Microsoft will encourage > developers to offer alternative ways to play - perhaps leant and > stored as part of the Avatar system from the off to share between > different games. It's early days - anything is possible... > > How do we best get this message to Microsoft though? > > Barrie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "will wade" > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative > Controller > > > > Its a interesting development. > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch > this space.. > > w > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : > Hi Barrie, and group: > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a > lot of > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is > some way to > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. > He has > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has > managed to > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice > device). > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial > expressions as > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy > - Tobi > was it?) > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would > have to > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means > to use > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the > ability to > implement something like this en masse. > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied > by having > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. > > Nathalie > http://gamefwd.org > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > wrote: > > Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be > realised... > > Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and > voice > recognition: > > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new- > controller.html > > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at illinois.edu Wed Jun 3 00:03:42 2009 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 23:03:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <11AE1681-D125-4105-A025-6374F2E5F22E@ablegamers.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906021438m1ab494a6gf9696ef346eaa633@mail.gmail.com> <11AE1681-D125-4105-A025-6374F2E5F22E@ablegamers.com> Message-ID: <20090602230342.BVA04960@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> I've got the Microsoft inside coverage on this -- I had to reschedule due to that emergency surgery and the BIG emergency surgery where I was clinically dead for about a minute and would have been really dead in a few more hours had the surgery been delayed. ...anyway...I'm heading back out there in a few weeks so and they are serious about avoiding some of those wii missteps. What would be cool is if everyone could offer some "what they are worried about" and "what might make that less worrisome" bullet point ideas, rants, etc that I could take to them next month. The more I can bring them from the community the better! Michelle IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair AbleGamers Foundation ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:08:28 -0400 >From: Mark Barlet >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Microsoft has taken notice. More details later. > Mark > > Sent from mobile device. > On Jun 2, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Nathalie Caron > wrote: > > My answer to your question Barrie, is to write, > write, write about it. The more we bring attention > to it, the more likely Microsoft is to take > notice. > > Nathalie > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Barrie Ellis > wrote: > > Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same > problems as the Wii - i.e. Not being able to > adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as > regards how fast and how broad movements are is > a real loss. Very rare support for alternative > controllers to be used. > > I could well imagine that Natal car game being > controlled by expressions alone if needed. Maybe > Microsoft will encourage developers to offer > alternative ways to play - perhaps leant and > stored as part of the Avatar system from the off > to share between different games. It's early > days - anything is possible... > > How do we best get this message to Microsoft > though? > > Barrie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "will wade" > > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: > Microsoft's Alternative Controller > > Its a interesting development. > I agree - as it stands its not that > potentially useful to > children/adults with a lot of movement. What > would be interesting if > the technology could be used to look at a > particular reliable movement > of a person for a particular output - e.g. > move a hand inwards at a > certain angle in relation to the body, or a > head movement to the left, > and that produces a output just like a switch. > Something like this is > currently being developed by the inference > group at Cambridge so watch > this space.. > > w > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron > : > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > I watched the Microsoft presentation > yesterday and while it has a lot of > potential to increase mainstream > accessibility, I think there is some way to > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who > argued the same point. He has > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand > coordination, has managed to > adapt to use a controller, but does not > speak (unless using a voice device). > I don't think Natal would be able to > recognize his facial expressions as > well, nor would it be able to find > expressions in his synthetic voice > (thinking in reference to that interactive > game with the little boy - Tobi > was it?) > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious > about this, they would have to > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those > who do not have the means to use > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. > Surely they have the ability to > implement something like this en masse. > > I don't know if they would consider that, or > if they are satisfied by having > already "broken new ground"... I guess we > will have to watch and see. > > Nathalie > http://gamefwd.org > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > wrote: > > Lots of potential for improved > accessibility? But will it be realised... > > Microsoft announce Project Natal - > gesture, facial expressions and voice > recognition: > > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >________________ >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From rkimball at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 00:56:43 2009 From: rkimball at gmail.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:56:43 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <20090602230342.BVA04960@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906021438m1ab494a6gf9696ef346eaa633@mail.gmail.com> <11AE1681-D125-4105-A025-6374F2E5F22E@ablegamers.com> <20090602230342.BVA04960@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: 1. Don't control how developers use this tech, let them experiment. -- MS might not like the idea of using facial expressions to control simple gameplay, but someone who's disabled might benefit. 2. Get creative with the applications. Not everything needs to be a game for hardcore players. -- An interactive screensaver app where people can fly through clouds by using their arms stretched out sideways (sitting or standing) could be therapeutic for some, even though it's not a "game" by traditional definitions. 3. Encourage developers to allow access to alternative control scheme. -- If someone can't talk, allow conversations to happen in more traditional UI driven ways. 4. Develop tools to help developers do # 3. -Reid On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:03 PM, wrote: > I've got the Microsoft inside coverage on this -- I had to reschedule due to that emergency surgery and the BIG emergency surgery where I was clinically dead for about a minute and would have been really dead in a few more hours had the surgery been delayed. > > ...anyway...I'm heading back out there in a few weeks so and they are serious about avoiding some of those wii missteps. > > What would be cool is if everyone could offer some "what they are worried about" and "what might make that less worrisome" bullet point ideas, rants, etc that I could take to them next month. The more I can bring them from the community the better! > > Michelle > IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair > AbleGamers Foundation > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:08:28 -0400 >>From: Mark Barlet >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> ? Microsoft has taken notice. More details later. >> ? Mark >> >> ? Sent from mobile device. >> ? On Jun 2, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Nathalie Caron >> ? wrote: >> >> ? ? My answer to your question Barrie, is to write, >> ? ? write, write about it. The more we bring attention >> ? ? to it, the more likely Microsoft is to take >> ? ? notice. >> >> ? ? Nathalie >> >> ? ? On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Barrie Ellis >> ? ? wrote: >> >> ? ? ? Natal doesn't need to suffer from the same >> ? ? ? problems as the Wii - i.e. Not being able to >> ? ? ? adjust what the Wii remote is expecting as >> ? ? ? regards how fast and how broad movements are is >> ? ? ? a real loss. Very rare support for alternative >> ? ? ? controllers to be used. >> >> ? ? ? I could well imagine that Natal car game being >> ? ? ? controlled by expressions alone if needed. Maybe >> ? ? ? Microsoft will encourage developers to offer >> ? ? ? alternative ways to play - perhaps leant and >> ? ? ? stored as part of the Avatar system from the off >> ? ? ? to share between different games. It's early >> ? ? ? days - anything is possible... >> >> ? ? ? How do we best get this message to Microsoft >> ? ? ? though? >> >> ? ? ? Barrie >> >> ? ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "will wade" >> ? ? ? >> ? ? ? To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> ? ? ? >> ? ? ? Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:13 PM >> ? ? ? Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >> ? ? ? Microsoft's Alternative Controller >> >> ? ? ? ? Its a interesting development. >> ? ? ? ? I agree - as it stands its not that >> ? ? ? ? potentially useful to >> ? ? ? ? children/adults with a lot of movement. What >> ? ? ? ? would be interesting if >> ? ? ? ? the technology could be used to look at a >> ? ? ? ? particular reliable movement >> ? ? ? ? of a person for a particular output - e.g. >> ? ? ? ? move a hand inwards at a >> ? ? ? ? certain angle in relation to the body, or a >> ? ? ? ? head movement to the left, >> ? ? ? ? and that produces a output just like a switch. >> ? ? ? ? Something like this is >> ? ? ? ? currently being developed by the inference >> ? ? ? ? group at Cambridge so watch >> ? ? ? ? this space.. >> >> ? ? ? ? w >> >> ? ? ? ? 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >> ? ? ? ? : >> >> ? ? ? ? ? Hi Barrie, and group: >> >> ? ? ? ? ? I watched the Microsoft presentation >> ? ? ? ? ? yesterday and while it has a lot of >> ? ? ? ? ? potential to increase mainstream >> ? ? ? ? ? accessibility, I think there is some way to >> ? ? ? ? ? go in order for it to be accessible to all. >> >> ? ? ? ? ? I can already imagine one of my friends, who >> ? ? ? ? ? argued the same point. He has >> ? ? ? ? ? CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >> ? ? ? ? ? coordination, has managed to >> ? ? ? ? ? adapt to use a controller, but does not >> ? ? ? ? ? speak (unless using a voice device). >> ? ? ? ? ? I don't think Natal would be able to >> ? ? ? ? ? recognize his facial expressions as >> ? ? ? ? ? well, nor would it be able to find >> ? ? ? ? ? expressions in his synthetic voice >> ? ? ? ? ? (thinking in reference to that interactive >> ? ? ? ? ? game with the little boy - Tobi >> ? ? ? ? ? was it?) >> >> ? ? ? ? ? I think that if Microsoft was really serious >> ? ? ? ? ? about this, they would have to >> ? ? ? ? ? look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >> ? ? ? ? ? who do not have the means to use >> ? ? ? ? ? their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >> ? ? ? ? ? Surely they have the ability to >> ? ? ? ? ? implement something like this en masse. >> >> ? ? ? ? ? I don't know if they would consider that, or >> ? ? ? ? ? if they are satisfied by having >> ? ? ? ? ? already "broken new ground"... I guess we >> ? ? ? ? ? will have to watch and see. >> >> ? ? ? ? ? Nathalie >> ? ? ? ? ? http://gamefwd.org >> >> ? ? ? ? ? On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >> ? ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? ? wrote: >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? Lots of potential for improved >> ? ? ? ? ? ? accessibility? But will it be realised... >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? Microsoft announce Project Natal - >> ? ? ? ? ? ? gesture, facial expressions and voice >> ? ? ? ? ? ? recognition: >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? ? ? ? ? games_access mailing list >> ? ? ? ? ? ? games_access at igda.org >> ? ? ? ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? ? ? ? games_access mailing list >> ? ? ? ? ? games_access at igda.org >> ? ? ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? ? ? games_access mailing list >> ? ? ? ? games_access at igda.org >> ? ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? ? games_access mailing list >> ? ? ? games_access at igda.org >> ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> ? ? _______________________________________________ >> ? ? games_access mailing list >> ? ? games_access at igda.org >> ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > ?-- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- Reid Kimball Game Designer / Writer http://game.rbkdesign.com From Colven at ace-centre.org.uk Wed Jun 3 03:44:00 2009 From: Colven at ace-centre.org.uk (David Colven) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:44:00 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for people with Asperger's syndrome or similar inter-personal communication problems. It would be interesting to see if it could be refined to produce switch actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the AEGIS meeting and they are very interested. How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? David David Colven Technical Advisor 01865 759813 077121 68901 Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868) You can donate here now! The information contained in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan all attachments. > -----Original Message----- > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of will wade > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative > Controller > > Its a interesting development. > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch > this space.. > > w > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of > > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some > way to > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He > has > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed > to > > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice > device). > > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as > > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice > > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - > Tobi > > was it?) > > > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have > to > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to > use > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the > ability to > > implement something like this en masse. > > > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by > having > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. > > > > Nathalie > > http://gamefwd.org > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > > wrote: > >> > >> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be > realised... > >> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and > voice > >> recognition: > >> > >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > >> > >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- > with-project-natal > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From nathalie at gamefwd.org Wed Jun 3 11:49:21 2009 From: nathalie at gamefwd.org (Nathalie Caron) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:49:21 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> I am preparing an article on the subject and will be contacting Microsoft with some questions. If you have some you'd like answered about this technology, please let me know asap and I will include them. NC On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven wrote: > I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for people with Asperger's > syndrome or similar inter-personal communication problems. > > It would be interesting to see if it could be refined to produce switch > actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the AEGIS meeting and they are > very interested. > > How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? > > David > > David Colven > Technical Advisor > 01865 759813 > 077121 68901 > Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > > Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868) You can donate here > now! > > The information contained in this email is confidential and may be > privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the > intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents > of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's > consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan > all attachments. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > > On Behalf Of will wade > > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 > > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative > > Controller > > > > Its a interesting development. > > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to > > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if > > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement > > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a > > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, > > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is > > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch > > this space.. > > > > w > > > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : > > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > > > > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a > lot of > > > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is > some > > way to > > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > > > > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. > He > > has > > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has > managed > > to > > > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice > > device). > > > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial > expressions as > > > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic > voice > > > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy > - > > Tobi > > > was it?) > > > > > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would > have > > to > > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means > to > > use > > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the > > ability to > > > implement something like this en masse. > > > > > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied > by > > having > > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and > see. > > > > > > Nathalie > > > http://gamefwd.org > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be > > realised... > > >> > > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and > > voice > > >> recognition: > > >> > > >> > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > > >> > > >> > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- > > with-project-natal > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> games_access mailing list > > >> games_access at igda.org > > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > games_access mailing list > > > games_access at igda.org > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at ablegamers.com Wed Jun 3 11:54:10 2009 From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and there are some great comments from the community that may be worth taking a look at. http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html Mark On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron wrote: > I am preparing an article on the subject and will be contacting Microsoft > with some questions. > > If you have some you'd like answered about this technology, please let me > know asap and I will include them. > > NC > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven wrote: > >> I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for people with Asperger's >> syndrome or similar inter-personal communication problems. >> >> It would be interesting to see if it could be refined to produce switch >> actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the AEGIS meeting and they are >> very interested. >> >> How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >> >> David >> >> David Colven >> Technical Advisor >> 01865 759813 >> 077121 68901 >> Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> >> Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868) You can donate here >> now! >> >> The information contained in this email is confidential and may be >> privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents >> of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's >> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan >> all attachments. >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >> > On Behalf Of will wade >> > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >> > Controller >> > >> > Its a interesting development. >> > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to >> > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if >> > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement >> > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a >> > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, >> > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is >> > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch >> > this space.. >> > >> > w >> > >> > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : >> > > Hi Barrie, and group: >> > > >> > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a >> lot of >> > > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is >> some >> > way to >> > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >> > > >> > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. >> He >> > has >> > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has >> managed >> > to >> > > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice >> > device). >> > > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial >> expressions as >> > > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic >> voice >> > > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy >> - >> > Tobi >> > > was it?) >> > > >> > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would >> have >> > to >> > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means >> to >> > use >> > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the >> > ability to >> > > implement something like this en masse. >> > > >> > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied >> by >> > having >> > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and >> see. >> > > >> > > Nathalie >> > > http://gamefwd.org >> > > >> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >> > >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be >> > realised... >> > >> >> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and >> > voice >> > >> recognition: >> > >> >> > >> >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >> > >> >> > >> >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >> > with-project-natal >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> games_access mailing list >> > >> games_access at igda.org >> > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > games_access mailing list >> > > games_access at igda.org >> > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- Mark C. Barlet Editor-in-Chief AbleGamers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hinn at illinois.edu Wed Jun 3 16:17:50 2009 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:17:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> <191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I had) about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had a long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf of AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their engineers on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I have more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media coverage. This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to delay the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE I go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win for the movement, I know it! I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation were able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet (mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as individuals and we've been working together ever since. Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad the announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the project! Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so we can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make change happen! Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >From: Mark Barlet >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and > there are some great comments from the community > that may be worth taking a look at. > > http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html > > Mark > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron > wrote: > > I am preparing an article on the subject and will > be contacting Microsoft with some questions. > ? > If you have some you'd like answered about this > technology, please let me know asap and I will > include them. > ? > NC > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven > wrote: > > I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for > people with Asperger's > syndrome or similar inter-personal communication > problems. > > It would be interesting to see if it could be > refined to produce switch > actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the > AEGIS meeting and they are > very interested. > > How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? > > David > > David Colven > Technical Advisor > 01865 759813 > 077121 68901 > Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no > 1040868) You can donate here > now! > > The information contained in this email is > confidential and may be > privileged. It is intended for the addressee > only. If you are not the > intended recipient, please delete this email > immediately. The contents > of this email must not be disclosed or copied > without the sender's > consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for > viruses, so please scan > all attachments. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > > On Behalf Of will wade > > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 > > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: > Microsoft's Alternative > > Controller > > > > Its a interesting development. > > I agree - as it stands its not that > potentially useful to > > children/adults with a lot of movement. What > would be interesting if > > the technology could be used to look at a > particular reliable movement > > of a person for a particular output - e.g. > move a hand inwards at a > > certain angle in relation to the body, or a > head movement to the left, > > and that produces a output just like a switch. > Something like this is > > currently being developed by the inference > group at Cambridge so watch > > this space.. > > > > w > > > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron > : > > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > > > > > I watched the Microsoft presentation > yesterday and while it has a > lot of > > > potential to increase mainstream > accessibility, I think there is > some > > way to > > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > > > > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who > argued the same point. > He > > has > > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand > coordination, has > managed > > to > > > adapt to use a controller, but does not > speak (unless using a voice > > device). > > > I don't think Natal would be able to > recognize his facial > expressions as > > > well, nor would it be able to find > expressions in his synthetic > voice > > > (thinking in reference to that interactive > game with the little boy > - > > Tobi > > > was it?) > > > > > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious > about this, they would > have > > to > > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those > who do not have the means > to > > use > > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. > Surely they have the > > ability to > > > implement something like this en masse. > > > > > > I don't know if they would consider that, or > if they are satisfied > by > > having > > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we > will have to watch and > see. > > > > > > Nathalie > > > http://gamefwd.org > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Lots of potential for improved > accessibility? But will it be > > realised... > > >> > > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, > facial expressions and > > voice > > >> recognition: > > >> > > >> > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > > >> > > >> > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- > > with-project-natal > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> games_access mailing list > > >> games_access at igda.org > > >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > games_access mailing list > > > games_access at igda.org > > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- > Mark C. Barlet > Editor-in-Chief > AbleGamers.com >________________ >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From richard at audiogames.net Wed Jun 3 16:43:02 2009 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com><5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com><2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com><191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> <20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje> Hey! :):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of Natal. I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this would still require good implementation and application of the technology, to which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! Cheers :) Ries *and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I had) about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had a long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf of AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their engineers on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I have more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media coverage. This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to delay the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE I go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win for the movement, I know it! I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation were able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet (mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as individuals and we've been working together ever since. Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad the announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the project! Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so we can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make change happen! Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >From: Mark Barlet >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >Controller >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and > there are some great comments from the community > that may be worth taking a look at. > > > http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html > > Mark > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron > wrote: > > I am preparing an article on the subject and will > be contacting Microsoft with some questions. > > If you have some you'd like answered about this > technology, please let me know asap and I will > include them. > > NC > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven > wrote: > > I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for > people with Asperger's > syndrome or similar inter-personal communication > problems. > > It would be interesting to see if it could be > refined to produce switch > actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the > AEGIS meeting and they are > very interested. > > How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? > > David > > David Colven > Technical Advisor > 01865 759813 > 077121 68901 > Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk > > The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no > 1040868) You can donate here > now! > > The information contained in this email is > confidential and may be > privileged. It is intended for the addressee > only. If you are not the > intended recipient, please delete this email > immediately. The contents > of this email must not be disclosed or copied > without the sender's > consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for > viruses, so please scan > all attachments. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > > On Behalf Of will wade > > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 > > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: > Microsoft's Alternative > > Controller > > > > Its a interesting development. > > I agree - as it stands its not that > potentially useful to > > children/adults with a lot of movement. What > would be interesting if > > the technology could be used to look at a > particular reliable movement > > of a person for a particular output - e.g. > move a hand inwards at a > > certain angle in relation to the body, or a > head movement to the left, > > and that produces a output just like a switch. > Something like this is > > currently being developed by the inference > group at Cambridge so watch > > this space.. > > > > w > > > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron > : > > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > > > > > I watched the Microsoft presentation > yesterday and while it has a > lot of > > > potential to increase mainstream > accessibility, I think there is > some > > way to > > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > > > > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who > argued the same point. > He > > has > > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand > coordination, has > managed > > to > > > adapt to use a controller, but does not > speak (unless using a voice > > device). > > > I don't think Natal would be able to > recognize his facial > expressions as > > > well, nor would it be able to find > expressions in his synthetic > voice > > > (thinking in reference to that interactive > game with the little boy > - > > Tobi > > > was it?) > > > > > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious > about this, they would > have > > to > > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those > who do not have the means > to > > use > > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. > Surely they have the > > ability to > > > implement something like this en masse. > > > > > > I don't know if they would consider that, or > if they are satisfied > by > > having > > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we > will have to watch and > see. > > > > > > Nathalie > > > http://gamefwd.org > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Lots of potential for improved > accessibility? But will it be > > realised... > > >> > > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, > facial expressions and > > voice > > >> recognition: > > >> > > >> > > http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > > >> > > >> > http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- > > with-project-natal > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> games_access mailing list > > >> games_access at igda.org > > >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > games_access mailing list > > > games_access at igda.org > > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > -- > Mark C. Barlet > Editor-in-Chief > AbleGamers.com >________________ >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From hinn at illinois.edu Wed Jun 3 16:54:55 2009 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:54:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com><5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com><2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com><191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> <20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje> Message-ID: <20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Hey Richard! It would be totally appropriate to have an on list discussion now that it's been announced! That wouldn't break any NDAs -- I'm glad to be able to finally talk about it! I don't know everything about it and can't say some stuff but what's out there about it from the press release is way more than enough information to start with! I offer the off-list option to those who may not feel comfortable discussing something on list but everyone should feel free to contribute to an onlist discussion! I encourage it! This isn't for a story -- it's to go directly to their engineers. So we're reaching out to as many people as we can so that we have loads of input for them! On AbleGamers we're hoping to get lots of input from the community of game players and on here we need all the expertise from everyone in the design and research world. And, yes, this is worth surviving death for! Finally we're getting through to a console company!! :) I think with both AbleGamers and the SIG pushing for so long we finally found our way in to make real change happen! Again, it's a great day for the accessibility movement!! Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 >From: "AudioGames.net" >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >Hey! > >:):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate >toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to >have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of Natal. >I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can >surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to >include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this would >still require good implementation and application of the technology, to >which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal >can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! > >Cheers :) > >Ries > > >*and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >Controller > > >Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a >few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I had) >about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had a >long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf of >AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. > >I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their engineers >on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would >like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at >hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I have >more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media coverage. >This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can >make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to delay >the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE I >go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make >this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win >for the movement, I know it! > >I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on >this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation were >able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced >we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't >already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet >(mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their >engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was >involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as individuals >and we've been working together ever since. > >Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the >game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad the >announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the project! >Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so we >can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make >change happen! > >Michelle > >---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >>From: Mark Barlet >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>Controller >>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and >> there are some great comments from the community >> that may be worth taking a look at. >> >> >> http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html >> >> Mark >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron >> wrote: >> >> I am preparing an article on the subject and will >> be contacting Microsoft with some questions. >> >> If you have some you'd like answered about this >> technology, please let me know asap and I will >> include them. >> >> NC >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven >> wrote: >> >> I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for >> people with Asperger's >> syndrome or similar inter-personal communication >> problems. >> >> It would be interesting to see if it could be >> refined to produce switch >> actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the >> AEGIS meeting and they are >> very interested. >> >> How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >> >> David >> >> David Colven >> Technical Advisor >> 01865 759813 >> 077121 68901 >> Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no >> 1040868) You can donate here >> now! >> >> The information contained in this email is >> confidential and may be >> privileged. It is intended for the addressee >> only. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please delete this email >> immediately. The contents >> of this email must not be disclosed or copied >> without the sender's >> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for >> viruses, so please scan >> all attachments. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >> > On Behalf Of will wade >> > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >> Microsoft's Alternative >> > Controller >> > >> > Its a interesting development. >> > I agree - as it stands its not that >> potentially useful to >> > children/adults with a lot of movement. What >> would be interesting if >> > the technology could be used to look at a >> particular reliable movement >> > of a person for a particular output - e.g. >> move a hand inwards at a >> > certain angle in relation to the body, or a >> head movement to the left, >> > and that produces a output just like a switch. >> Something like this is >> > currently being developed by the inference >> group at Cambridge so watch >> > this space.. >> > >> > w >> > >> > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >> : >> > > Hi Barrie, and group: >> > > >> > > I watched the Microsoft presentation >> yesterday and while it has a >> lot of >> > > potential to increase mainstream >> accessibility, I think there is >> some >> > way to >> > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >> > > >> > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who >> argued the same point. >> He >> > has >> > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >> coordination, has >> managed >> > to >> > > adapt to use a controller, but does not >> speak (unless using a voice >> > device). >> > > I don't think Natal would be able to >> recognize his facial >> expressions as >> > > well, nor would it be able to find >> expressions in his synthetic >> voice >> > > (thinking in reference to that interactive >> game with the little boy >> - >> > Tobi >> > > was it?) >> > > >> > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious >> about this, they would >> have >> > to >> > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >> who do not have the means >> to >> > use >> > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >> Surely they have the >> > ability to >> > > implement something like this en masse. >> > > >> > > I don't know if they would consider that, or >> if they are satisfied >> by >> > having >> > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we >> will have to watch and >> see. >> > > >> > > Nathalie >> > > http://gamefwd.org >> > > >> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >> > >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Lots of potential for improved >> accessibility? But will it be >> > realised... >> > >> >> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, >> facial expressions and >> > voice >> > >> recognition: >> > >> >> > >> >> >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >> > >> >> > >> >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >> > with-project-natal >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> games_access mailing list >> > >> games_access at igda.org >> > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > games_access mailing list >> > > games_access at igda.org >> > > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> -- >> Mark C. Barlet >> Editor-in-Chief >> AbleGamers.com >>________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >....................................... >these are mediocre times and people are >losing hope. it's hard for many people >to believe that there are extraordinary >things inside themselves, as well as >others. i hope you can keep an open >mind. > -- "unbreakable" >....................................... >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From rkimball at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 17:36:15 2009 From: rkimball at gmail.com (Reid Kimball) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:36:15 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch> <2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com> <5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> <191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com> <20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje> <20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I don't understand why MS is interested in hearing about accessibility issues for only one peripheral. Why not for their whole console? They need to get developers to allow reconfigurable controls, text scaling, closed captioning with tinted background so text is easier to read, etc. -Reid On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:54 PM, wrote: > Hey Richard! > > It would be totally appropriate to have an on list discussion now that it's been announced! That wouldn't break any NDAs -- I'm glad to be able to finally talk about it! I don't know everything about it and can't say some stuff but what's out there about it from the press release is way more than enough information to start with! > > I offer the off-list option to those who may not feel comfortable discussing something on list but everyone should feel free to contribute to an onlist discussion! I encourage it! This isn't for a story -- it's to go directly to their engineers. So we're reaching out to as many people as we can so that we have loads of input for them! On AbleGamers we're hoping to get lots of input from the community of game players and on here we need all the expertise from everyone in the design and research world. > > And, yes, this is worth surviving death for! Finally we're getting through to a console company!! :) I think with both AbleGamers and the SIG pushing for so long we finally found our way in to make real change happen! Again, it's a great day for the accessibility movement!! > > Michelle > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 >>From: "AudioGames.net" >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >>Hey! >> >>:):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate >>toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to >>have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of Natal. >>I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can >>surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to >>include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this would >>still require good implementation and application of the technology, to >>which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal >>can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! >> >>Cheers :) >> >>Ries >> >> >>*and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>Controller >> >> >>Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a >>few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I had) >>about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had a >>long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf of >>AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. >> >>I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their engineers >>on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would >>like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at >>hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I have >>more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media coverage. >>This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can >>make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to delay >>the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE I >>go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make >>this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win >>for the movement, I know it! >> >>I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on >>this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation were >>able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced >>we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't >>already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet >>(mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their >>engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was >>involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as individuals >>and we've been working together ever since. >> >>Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the >>game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad the >>announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the project! >>Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so we >>can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make >>change happen! >> >>Michelle >> >>---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >>>From: Mark Barlet >>>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>>Controller >>>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>> >>> ? we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and >>> ? there are some great comments from the community >>> ? that may be worth taking a look at. >>> >>> >>> http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html >>> >>> ? Mark >>> >>> ? On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron >>> ? wrote: >>> >>> ? ? I am preparing an article on the subject and will >>> ? ? be contacting Microsoft with some questions. >>> >>> ? ? If you have some you'd like answered about this >>> ? ? technology, please let me know asap and I will >>> ? ? include them. >>> >>> ? ? NC >>> >>> ? ? On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven >>> ? ? wrote: >>> >>> ? ? ? I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for >>> ? ? ? people with Asperger's >>> ? ? ? syndrome or similar inter-personal communication >>> ? ? ? problems. >>> >>> ? ? ? It would be interesting to see if it could be >>> ? ? ? refined to produce switch >>> ? ? ? actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the >>> ? ? ? AEGIS meeting and they are >>> ? ? ? very interested. >>> >>> ? ? ? How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >>> >>> ? ? ? David >>> >>> ? ? ? David Colven >>> ? ? ? Technical Advisor >>> ? ? ? 01865 759813 >>> ? ? ? 077121 68901 >>> ? ? ? Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>> >>> ? ? ? Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>> >>> ? ? ? The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no >>> ? ? ? 1040868) You can donate here >>> ? ? ? now! >>> >>> ? ? ? The information contained in this email is >>> ? ? ? confidential and may be >>> ? ? ? privileged. It is intended for the addressee >>> ? ? ? only. If you are not the >>> ? ? ? intended recipient, please delete this email >>> ? ? ? immediately. The contents >>> ? ? ? of this email must not be disclosed or copied >>> ? ? ? without the sender's >>> ? ? ? consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for >>> ? ? ? viruses, so please scan >>> ? ? ? all attachments. >>> >>> ? ? ? > -----Original Message----- >>> ? ? ? > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >>> ? ? ? [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >>> ? ? ? > On Behalf Of will wade >>> ? ? ? > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >>> ? ? ? > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>> ? ? ? > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >>> ? ? ? Microsoft's Alternative >>> ? ? ? > Controller >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? > Its a interesting development. >>> ? ? ? > I agree - as it stands its not that >>> ? ? ? potentially useful to >>> ? ? ? > children/adults with a lot of movement. What >>> ? ? ? would be interesting if >>> ? ? ? > the technology could be used to look at a >>> ? ? ? particular reliable movement >>> ? ? ? > of a person for a particular output - e.g. >>> ? ? ? move a hand inwards at a >>> ? ? ? > certain angle in relation to the body, or a >>> ? ? ? head movement to the left, >>> ? ? ? > and that produces a output just like a switch. >>> ? ? ? Something like this is >>> ? ? ? > currently being developed by the inference >>> ? ? ? group at Cambridge so watch >>> ? ? ? > this space.. >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? > w >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >>> ? ? ? : >>> ? ? ? > > Hi Barrie, and group: >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > I watched the Microsoft presentation >>> ? ? ? yesterday and while it has a >>> ? ? ? lot of >>> ? ? ? > > potential to increase mainstream >>> ? ? ? accessibility, I think there is >>> ? ? ? some >>> ? ? ? > way to >>> ? ? ? > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who >>> ? ? ? argued the same point. >>> ? ? ? He >>> ? ? ? > has >>> ? ? ? > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >>> ? ? ? coordination, has >>> ? ? ? managed >>> ? ? ? > to >>> ? ? ? > > adapt to use a controller, but does not >>> ? ? ? speak (unless using a voice >>> ? ? ? > device). >>> ? ? ? > > I don't think Natal would be able to >>> ? ? ? recognize his facial >>> ? ? ? expressions as >>> ? ? ? > > well, nor would it be able to find >>> ? ? ? expressions in his synthetic >>> ? ? ? voice >>> ? ? ? > > (thinking in reference to that interactive >>> ? ? ? game with the little boy >>> ? ? ? - >>> ? ? ? > Tobi >>> ? ? ? > > was it?) >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious >>> ? ? ? about this, they would >>> ? ? ? have >>> ? ? ? > to >>> ? ? ? > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >>> ? ? ? who do not have the means >>> ? ? ? to >>> ? ? ? > use >>> ? ? ? > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >>> ? ? ? Surely they have the >>> ? ? ? > ability to >>> ? ? ? > > implement something like this en masse. >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > I don't know if they would consider that, or >>> ? ? ? if they are satisfied >>> ? ? ? by >>> ? ? ? > having >>> ? ? ? > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we >>> ? ? ? will have to watch and >>> ? ? ? see. >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > Nathalie >>> ? ? ? > > http://gamefwd.org >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? > > wrote: >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> Lots of potential for improved >>> ? ? ? accessibility? But will it be >>> ? ? ? > realised... >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, >>> ? ? ? facial expressions and >>> ? ? ? > voice >>> ? ? ? > >> recognition: >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> >>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >>> ? ? ? > with-project-natal >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> ? ? ? > >> games_access mailing list >>> ? ? ? > >> games_access at igda.org >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> ? ? ? > >> >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> ? ? ? > > games_access mailing list >>> ? ? ? > > games_access at igda.org >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > > >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> ? ? ? > games_access mailing list >>> ? ? ? > games_access at igda.org >>> ? ? ? > >>> ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> ? ? ? games_access mailing list >>> ? ? ? games_access at igda.org >>> ? ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> ? ? games_access mailing list >>> ? ? games_access at igda.org >>> ? ? http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> ? -- >>> ? Mark C. Barlet >>> ? Editor-in-Chief >>> ? AbleGamers.com >>>________________ >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>....................................... >>these are mediocre times and people are >>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>to believe that there are extraordinary >>things inside themselves, as well as >>others. i hope you can keep an open >>mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >>....................................... >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > ?-- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- Reid Kimball Game Designer / Writer http://game.rbkdesign.com From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Wed Jun 3 17:51:33 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:51:33 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com><5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com><2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com><191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com><20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu><911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje><20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <9463FD5151214882B872B59AFE55DC04@OneSwitch> I don't quite understand that either - but if we've got their ear - then let's make the most of it! We can use Forza 3's as an example of some of what we'd like to see more of too: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/forza-3-one-switch-mode.html Barrie www.oneswitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Kimball" To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller I don't understand why MS is interested in hearing about accessibility issues for only one peripheral. Why not for their whole console? They need to get developers to allow reconfigurable controls, text scaling, closed captioning with tinted background so text is easier to read, etc. -Reid On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:54 PM, wrote: > Hey Richard! > > It would be totally appropriate to have an on list discussion now that > it's been announced! That wouldn't break any NDAs -- I'm glad to be able > to finally talk about it! I don't know everything about it and can't say > some stuff but what's out there about it from the press release is way > more than enough information to start with! > > I offer the off-list option to those who may not feel comfortable > discussing something on list but everyone should feel free to contribute > to an onlist discussion! I encourage it! This isn't for a story -- it's to > go directly to their engineers. So we're reaching out to as many people as > we can so that we have loads of input for them! On AbleGamers we're hoping > to get lots of input from the community of game players and on here we > need all the expertise from everyone in the design and research world. > > And, yes, this is worth surviving death for! Finally we're getting through > to a console company!! :) I think with both AbleGamers and the SIG pushing > for so long we finally found our way in to make real change happen! Again, > it's a great day for the accessibility movement!! > > Michelle > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 >>From: "AudioGames.net" >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>Controller >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >> >>Hey! >> >>:):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate >>toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to >>have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of >>Natal. >>I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can >>surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to >>include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this >>would >>still require good implementation and application of the technology, to >>which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal >>can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! >> >>Cheers :) >> >>Ries >> >> >>*and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>Controller >> >> >>Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a >>few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I >>had) >>about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had >>a >>long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf >>of >>AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. >> >>I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their >>engineers >>on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would >>like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at >>hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I >>have >>more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media >>coverage. >>This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can >>make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to >>delay >>the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE >>I >>go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make >>this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win >>for the movement, I know it! >> >>I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on >>this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation >>were >>able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced >>we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't >>already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet >>(mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their >>engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was >>involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as >>individuals >>and we've been working together ever since. >> >>Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the >>game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad >>the >>announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the >>project! >>Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so >>we >>can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make >>change happen! >> >>Michelle >> >>---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >>>From: Mark Barlet >>>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>>Controller >>>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>> >>> we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and >>> there are some great comments from the community >>> that may be worth taking a look at. >>> >>> >>> http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron >>> wrote: >>> >>> I am preparing an article on the subject and will >>> be contacting Microsoft with some questions. >>> >>> If you have some you'd like answered about this >>> technology, please let me know asap and I will >>> include them. >>> >>> NC >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for >>> people with Asperger's >>> syndrome or similar inter-personal communication >>> problems. >>> >>> It would be interesting to see if it could be >>> refined to produce switch >>> actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the >>> AEGIS meeting and they are >>> very interested. >>> >>> How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >>> >>> David >>> >>> David Colven >>> Technical Advisor >>> 01865 759813 >>> 077121 68901 >>> Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>> >>> Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>> >>> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no >>> 1040868) You can donate here >>> now! >>> >>> The information contained in this email is >>> confidential and may be >>> privileged. It is intended for the addressee >>> only. If you are not the >>> intended recipient, please delete this email >>> immediately. The contents >>> of this email must not be disclosed or copied >>> without the sender's >>> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for >>> viruses, so please scan >>> all attachments. >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >>> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >>> > On Behalf Of will wade >>> > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >>> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >>> Microsoft's Alternative >>> > Controller >>> > >>> > Its a interesting development. >>> > I agree - as it stands its not that >>> potentially useful to >>> > children/adults with a lot of movement. What >>> would be interesting if >>> > the technology could be used to look at a >>> particular reliable movement >>> > of a person for a particular output - e.g. >>> move a hand inwards at a >>> > certain angle in relation to the body, or a >>> head movement to the left, >>> > and that produces a output just like a switch. >>> Something like this is >>> > currently being developed by the inference >>> group at Cambridge so watch >>> > this space.. >>> > >>> > w >>> > >>> > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >>> : >>> > > Hi Barrie, and group: >>> > > >>> > > I watched the Microsoft presentation >>> yesterday and while it has a >>> lot of >>> > > potential to increase mainstream >>> accessibility, I think there is >>> some >>> > way to >>> > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >>> > > >>> > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who >>> argued the same point. >>> He >>> > has >>> > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >>> coordination, has >>> managed >>> > to >>> > > adapt to use a controller, but does not >>> speak (unless using a voice >>> > device). >>> > > I don't think Natal would be able to >>> recognize his facial >>> expressions as >>> > > well, nor would it be able to find >>> expressions in his synthetic >>> voice >>> > > (thinking in reference to that interactive >>> game with the little boy >>> - >>> > Tobi >>> > > was it?) >>> > > >>> > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious >>> about this, they would >>> have >>> > to >>> > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >>> who do not have the means >>> to >>> > use >>> > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >>> Surely they have the >>> > ability to >>> > > implement something like this en masse. >>> > > >>> > > I don't know if they would consider that, or >>> if they are satisfied >>> by >>> > having >>> > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we >>> will have to watch and >>> see. >>> > > >>> > > Nathalie >>> > > http://gamefwd.org >>> > > >>> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >>> > >>> > > wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> Lots of potential for improved >>> accessibility? But will it be >>> > realised... >>> > >> >>> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, >>> facial expressions and >>> > voice >>> > >> recognition: >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >>> > with-project-natal >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> games_access mailing list >>> > >> games_access at igda.org >>> > >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > > games_access mailing list >>> > > games_access at igda.org >>> > > >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > games_access mailing list >>> > games_access at igda.org >>> > >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>> -- >>> Mark C. Barlet >>> Editor-in-Chief >>> AbleGamers.com >>>________________ >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>....................................... >>these are mediocre times and people are >>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>to believe that there are extraordinary >>things inside themselves, as well as >>others. i hope you can keep an open >>mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >>....................................... >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > ....................................... > these are mediocre times and people are > losing hope. it's hard for many people > to believe that there are extraordinary > things inside themselves, as well as > others. i hope you can keep an open > mind. > -- "unbreakable" > ....................................... > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -- Reid Kimball Game Designer / Writer http://game.rbkdesign.com _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From larry_goldberg at wgbh.org Wed Jun 3 21:03:00 2009 From: larry_goldberg at wgbh.org (Larry Goldberg) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:03:00 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: New to the list and throwing in this idea: If the Natal system can do speech recognition, can it also do speech-to-text conversion? I know it's a great leap from being able to tell who's talking to turning any user's speech into on-screen text, but it's worth asking. It might also then be able to turn game-based dialog and networked players' speech into something that would serve deaf game players. Knowing the challenges of independent, disconnected, untrained, multi-voice speech recognition, ... Larry ... Larry Goldberg, Director Media Access Group at WGBH The Carl and Ruth Shapiro Family National Center for Accessible Media (NCAM) One Guest Street Boston, MA 02135 617.300.3722 (voice/fax) 617.300.2489 (TTY) Larry_Goldberg at WGBH.org access.wgbh.org ________________________________ From: Reply-To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:54:55 -0400 To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller Hey Richard! It would be totally appropriate to have an on list discussion now that it's been announced! That wouldn't break any NDAs -- I'm glad to be able to finally talk about it! I don't know everything about it and can't say some stuff but what's out there about it from the press release is way more than enough information to start with! I offer the off-list option to those who may not feel comfortable discussing something on list but everyone should feel free to contribute to an onlist discussion! I encourage it! This isn't for a story -- it's to go directly to their engineers. So we're reaching out to as many people as we can so that we have loads of input for them! On AbleGamers we're hoping to get lots of input from the community of game players and on here we need all the expertise from everyone in the design and research world. And, yes, this is worth surviving death for! Finally we're getting through to a console company!! :) I think with both AbleGamers and the SIG pushing for so long we finally found our way in to make real change happen! Again, it's a great day for the accessibility movement!! Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 >From: "AudioGames.net" >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >Hey! > >:):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate >toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to >have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of Natal. >I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can >surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to >include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this would >still require good implementation and application of the technology, to >which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal >can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! > >Cheers :) > >Ries > > >*and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >Controller > > >Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a >few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I had) >about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had a >long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf of >AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. > >I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their engineers >on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would >like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at >hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I have >more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media coverage. >This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can >make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to delay >the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE I >go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make >this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win >for the movement, I know it! > >I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on >this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation were >able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced >we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't >already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet >(mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their >engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was >involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as individuals >and we've been working together ever since. > >Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the >game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad the >announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the project! >Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so we >can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make >change happen! > >Michelle > >---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >>From: Mark Barlet >>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>Controller >>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> >> we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and >> there are some great comments from the community >> that may be worth taking a look at. >> >> >> http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html >> >> Mark >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron >> wrote: >> >> I am preparing an article on the subject and will >> be contacting Microsoft with some questions. >> >> If you have some you'd like answered about this >> technology, please let me know asap and I will >> include them. >> >> NC >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven >> wrote: >> >> I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for >> people with Asperger's >> syndrome or similar inter-personal communication >> problems. >> >> It would be interesting to see if it could be >> refined to produce switch >> actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the >> AEGIS meeting and they are >> very interested. >> >> How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >> >> David >> >> David Colven >> Technical Advisor >> 01865 759813 >> 077121 68901 >> Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >> >> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no >> 1040868) You can donate here >> now! >> >> The information contained in this email is >> confidential and may be >> privileged. It is intended for the addressee >> only. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please delete this email >> immediately. The contents >> of this email must not be disclosed or copied >> without the sender's >> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for >> viruses, so please scan >> all attachments. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >> > On Behalf Of will wade >> > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >> Microsoft's Alternative >> > Controller >> > >> > Its a interesting development. >> > I agree - as it stands its not that >> potentially useful to >> > children/adults with a lot of movement. What >> would be interesting if >> > the technology could be used to look at a >> particular reliable movement >> > of a person for a particular output - e.g. >> move a hand inwards at a >> > certain angle in relation to the body, or a >> head movement to the left, >> > and that produces a output just like a switch. >> Something like this is >> > currently being developed by the inference >> group at Cambridge so watch >> > this space.. >> > >> > w >> > >> > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >> : >> > > Hi Barrie, and group: >> > > >> > > I watched the Microsoft presentation >> yesterday and while it has a >> lot of >> > > potential to increase mainstream >> accessibility, I think there is >> some >> > way to >> > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >> > > >> > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who >> argued the same point. >> He >> > has >> > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >> coordination, has >> managed >> > to >> > > adapt to use a controller, but does not >> speak (unless using a voice >> > device). >> > > I don't think Natal would be able to >> recognize his facial >> expressions as >> > > well, nor would it be able to find >> expressions in his synthetic >> voice >> > > (thinking in reference to that interactive >> game with the little boy >> - >> > Tobi >> > > was it?) >> > > >> > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious >> about this, they would >> have >> > to >> > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >> who do not have the means >> to >> > use >> > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >> Surely they have the >> > ability to >> > > implement something like this en masse. >> > > >> > > I don't know if they would consider that, or >> if they are satisfied >> by >> > having >> > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we >> will have to watch and >> see. >> > > >> > > Nathalie >> > > http://gamefwd.org >> > > >> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >> > >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Lots of potential for improved >> accessibility? But will it be >> > realised... >> > >> >> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, >> facial expressions and >> > voice >> > >> recognition: >> > >> >> > >> >> >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >> > >> >> > >> >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >> > with-project-natal >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> games_access mailing list >> > >> games_access at igda.org >> > >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > games_access mailing list >> > > games_access at igda.org >> > > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > games_access mailing list >> > games_access at igda.org >> > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> >> -- >> Mark C. Barlet >> Editor-in-Chief >> AbleGamers.com >>________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>games_access mailing list >>games_access at igda.org >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >....................................... >these are mediocre times and people are >losing hope. it's hard for many people >to believe that there are extraordinary >things inside themselves, as well as >others. i hope you can keep an open >mind. > -- "unbreakable" >....................................... >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Jun 4 04:48:25 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:48:25 +0200 Subject: [games_access] =?iso-8859-15?q?Project_Natal=3A_Microsoft=27s_Alt?= =?iso-8859-15?q?ernative_Controller?= Message-ID: <749949194@web.de> Hi, One important part is that for each input and output type, there exists one or more alternative input and output type. For example: speech, it should also be possible to type it. And of course typing can be do in different ways: real keyboard, on screen keyboard. little bit off-topic: I just wanted to mention that there are also other no-controller-technology But I do not know much about it :-( www.t-immersion.com www.gesturetek.com www.softkinetic.net www.omekinteractive.com www.sixense.com Best regards, Sandra ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From oneswitch at googlemail.com Fri Jun 5 06:53:33 2009 From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (oneswitch at googlemail.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:53:33 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com><5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com> <2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <359D32D98F6A473B80DCE691961967E8@OneSwitch> Hi Nathalie, I'm in contact with the UK branch of Microsoft too. The more that get in touch the merrier is my thinking. My main thoughts are that I'd love for Microsoft to promote the use of an accessibility profiling system perhaps linked to their Avatar system, that takes into account preferences for game control and other accessibilty issues. My concern is that from the Natal demos I have seen - many gamers will not be able to jump about to play games and will feel left out as they can do with the Wii - especially so wheelchair users. EyeToy gets around this issue as you can reposition the camera to focus on just a finger for instance, which can be used to play. Microsoft could get around this issue by promoting controller configuration options in a versatile way... If gamers can define a mix of Natal moves/expressions/vocalisations to trigger particular functions (e.g. lift your eye brows to brake in a car game - tilt your head left/right to steer) many more gamers could be brought in. It would be a revolution for console gaming. If there was a way to define your controls with a mix of user-definable JoyPad controls plus Natal interactions - you could make a huge number of games more accessible - and playable in totally new ways. So... Will Microsoft consider versatile user-definable controls and promote this to game developers? Can Natal be used to play existing games that use a JoyPad controller? Have Microsoft ever seen the Vocal Joystick (http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/search?q=vocal+joystick)? Is Natal versatile enough to be used as a head-tracker? Will Microsoft consider pushing for greater accessibility in games that do not have Natal compatibility (as Forza 3 seems to be alluding to: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/forza-3-one-switch-mode.html). That's all a bit garbled - do you think you could make sense of that and pose some of that to Microsoft? Please let me know how you go... Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Nathalie Caron To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller I am preparing an article on the subject and will be contacting Microsoft with some questions. If you have some you'd like answered about this technology, please let me know asap and I will include them. NC On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven wrote: I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for people with Asperger's syndrome or similar inter-personal communication problems. It would be interesting to see if it could be refined to produce switch actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the AEGIS meeting and they are very interested. How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? David David Colven Technical Advisor 01865 759813 077121 68901 Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868) You can donate here now! The information contained in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan all attachments. > -----Original Message----- > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of will wade > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative > Controller > > Its a interesting development. > I agree - as it stands its not that potentially useful to > children/adults with a lot of movement. What would be interesting if > the technology could be used to look at a particular reliable movement > of a person for a particular output - e.g. move a hand inwards at a > certain angle in relation to the body, or a head movement to the left, > and that produces a output just like a switch. Something like this is > currently being developed by the inference group at Cambridge so watch > this space.. > > w > > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron : > > Hi Barrie, and group: > > > > I watched the Microsoft presentation yesterday and while it has a lot of > > potential to increase mainstream accessibility, I think there is some > way to > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. > > > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who argued the same point. He > has > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand coordination, has managed > to > > adapt to use a controller, but does not speak (unless using a voice > device). > > I don't think Natal would be able to recognize his facial expressions as > > well, nor would it be able to find expressions in his synthetic voice > > (thinking in reference to that interactive game with the little boy - > Tobi > > was it?) > > > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious about this, they would have > to > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those who do not have the means to > use > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. Surely they have the > ability to > > implement something like this en masse. > > > > I don't know if they would consider that, or if they are satisfied by > having > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we will have to watch and see. > > > > Nathalie > > http://gamefwd.org > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis > > > wrote: > >> > >> Lots of potential for improved accessibility? But will it be > realised... > >> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, facial expressions and > voice > >> recognition: > >> > >> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html > >> > >> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- > with-project-natal > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> games_access mailing list > >> games_access at igda.org > >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > games_access mailing list > > games_access at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Fri Jun 5 13:55:54 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:55:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games Message-ID: <753227399@web.de> Hello, is there somewhere a nice list with accessible games? I have sometimes questions for more accessible games. It would be great, when there would be a list with websites. Best regards, Sandra ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From richard at audiogames.net Fri Jun 5 14:26:34 2009 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:26:34 +0200 Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games References: <753227399@web.de> Message-ID: <1BCBAB6673F24008AA6BDB5497AB9E32@Delletje> Hi, There are several websites (such as AudioGames.net, OneSwitch.org.uk, AbleGamers.com, GameAccessibility.com, etc.) that have lists of games (or links to) that are accessible to specific target groups. So far no-one has combined these lists into a single (categorized) list. And as far as I know there is no list of universally accessible games simply because there's no game that is accessible for *everyone*. Greets, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Uhling" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games Hello, is there somewhere a nice list with accessible games? I have sometimes questions for more accessible games. It would be great, when there would be a list with websites. Best regards, Sandra ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From jbannick at 7128.com Fri Jun 5 17:32:03 2009 From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games Message-ID: <1073.76.119.138.66.1244237523.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Sandra and Richard, We have 3 lists at www.7128.com: Top 25 Web Sites for Gamers who are Blind Top 20 Web Sites for Gamers who are Motion Impaired Top 10 Web Sites for Gamers who are Deaf These lists are more than just links. They're pretty good summaries of what each site has to offer. We update these every year. Apparently from our Web stats they get a fair amount of traffic. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Sat Jun 6 09:56:08 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:56:08 +0100 Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games In-Reply-To: <753227399@web.de> References: <753227399@web.de> Message-ID: <35C752FB015F469199CA30E1C2D4B9C3@OneSwitch> Hi Sandra, There was a broad list that the ACE Centre started - which was taken on by Special Effect: http://gameon.onestopcms.co.uk/ (not presently available). Special Effect are looking to develop a new list too: http://www.specialeffect.org.uk/pages/gamebase.htm. The lists already discussed are really good. >From my end: http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/switch-downloads.htm - Lots of downloadable one-switch games plus Top 10 from the library and the ATE Arcade. Plus the most recent lists from my blog: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/search/label/one-switch%20games - One-switch games http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/search/label/head%20trackers - Head-tracker games http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/search/label/Audio%20Games - Audio games Would be lovely to have a centralised list of the majority of accessible games past and present. It's a big job though which is why it's likely scared most people off thus far. Plus it's expensive until game developers start sending us games to test out. We should start a record of mainstream games that have deliberately considered disabled gamers as this may just (!) start to grow beyond easy recollection. Here's my knowledge: PC - Valve's "Half Life 2" - features full Closed Captions. PC - Namco's "Star Trigon" - features an accessibility mode with full one-switch play and menu access. PC - PopCap's "Peggle" - features a colour-blind adjustment option. SEGA Saturn or Dreamcast - Warp's "Real Sound: Kaze no Riguretto" - console Audio Game (Japananese). Atari's "San Francisco Rush 2049 Special Edition" - featured a mode to play without pedals. I'm pretty sure I've missed some off. This of course excludes all the work Atari did in the early 1980's with their "Special Feature" to make Atari VCS games easier for young children. It of course excludes the massive efforts of indie developers releasing games with accessibility features. Hope that's of some use, Barrie Hello, is there somewhere a nice list with accessible games? I have sometimes questions for more accessible games. It would be great, when there would be a list with websites. Best regards, Sandra From jbannick at 7128.com Sat Jun 6 10:56:14 2009 From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games Message-ID: <1344.76.119.138.66.1244300174.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Barrie, "We should start a record of mainstream games that have deliberately considered disabled gamers" Please add our entire inventory of 30 plus games at 7-128 Software to your list; since you yourself have caused disabled-friendly features to be added. BTW. We're currently building a mainstream travel game that includes ideas from yourself, Ian over at BBC, Reid, and our blind colleagues. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software From hinn at illinois.edu Sat Jun 6 22:40:16 2009 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:40:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games In-Reply-To: <1344.76.119.138.66.1244300174.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> References: <1344.76.119.138.66.1244300174.squirrel@webmail.enigami.com> Message-ID: <20090606214016.BVD17600@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> I think Barrie (correct me if I'm wrong Barrie!) means AAA titles when he says mainstream (ie, games packaged for retail sales at places like target, best buy, etc). Those are the ones that are least likely to have considered disabled gamers and are the ones a lot of us are fighting to change. Not a commentary on your games! Just saying that there's an important distinction -- the big industry titles are what gets a lot of requests for accessibility because gamers want equal access to big consumer titles. Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:56:14 -0400 (EDT) >From: "John Bannick" >Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games >To: games_access at igda.org > >Barrie, > >"We should start a record of mainstream games that have deliberately >considered disabled gamers" > >Please add our entire inventory of 30 plus games at 7-128 Software to your >list; since you yourself have caused disabled-friendly features to be >added. > >BTW. We're currently building a mainstream travel game that includes ideas >from yourself, Ian over at BBC, Reid, and our blind colleagues. > >John Bannick >CTO >7-128 Software > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From hinn at illinois.edu Sat Jun 6 23:13:30 2009 From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:13:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller In-Reply-To: <9463FD5151214882B872B59AFE55DC04@OneSwitch> References: <05B9156BCDC04546BD6CD6FAD0B8E7BD@OneSwitch><2d1b7eb60906020317l7455c52dnc3f6691289735850@mail.gmail.com><5e2a954e0906021113jf0d3f1fn67112415d43f05d@mail.gmail.com><2d1b7eb60906030849w4ec4da4fk18651c121768c46@mail.gmail.com><191870b70906030854y6b8aacbfl8df093d3d06b59a7@mail.gmail.com><20090603151750.BVA70359@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu><911C2F6FABF3483A8DA1631AF07B63F2@Delletje><20090603155455.BVA72993@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> <9463FD5151214882B872B59AFE55DC04@OneSwitch> Message-ID: <20090606221330.BVD18374@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu> They aren't just interested in the peripheral. They invited me to give a series of talks on accessibility overall. ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:51:33 +0100 >From: "Barrie Ellis" >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative Controller >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >I don't quite understand that either - but if we've got their ear - then >let's make the most of it! > >We can use Forza 3's as an example of some of what we'd like to see more of >too: > >http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/forza-3-one-switch-mode.html > >Barrie >www.oneswitch.org.uk > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Reid Kimball" >To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:36 PM >Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >Controller > > >I don't understand why MS is interested in hearing about accessibility >issues for only one peripheral. Why not for their whole console? They >need to get developers to allow reconfigurable controls, text scaling, >closed captioning with tinted background so text is easier to read, >etc. > >-Reid > >On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:54 PM, wrote: >> Hey Richard! >> >> It would be totally appropriate to have an on list discussion now that >> it's been announced! That wouldn't break any NDAs -- I'm glad to be able >> to finally talk about it! I don't know everything about it and can't say >> some stuff but what's out there about it from the press release is way >> more than enough information to start with! >> >> I offer the off-list option to those who may not feel comfortable >> discussing something on list but everyone should feel free to contribute >> to an onlist discussion! I encourage it! This isn't for a story -- it's to >> go directly to their engineers. So we're reaching out to as many people as >> we can so that we have loads of input for them! On AbleGamers we're hoping >> to get lots of input from the community of game players and on here we >> need all the expertise from everyone in the design and research world. >> >> And, yes, this is worth surviving death for! Finally we're getting through >> to a console company!! :) I think with both AbleGamers and the SIG pushing >> for so long we finally found our way in to make real change happen! Again, >> it's a great day for the accessibility movement!! >> >> Michelle >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +0200 >>>From: "AudioGames.net" >>>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>>Controller >>>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>> >>>Hey! >>> >>>:):):) This really is great news*! Congratz!!! (Unless it's inappropiate >>>toward our current relationship with MS of course but) I wouldn't mind to >>>have an on-list conversation about the concerns and possibilities of >>>Natal. >>>I'm eager to hear all of your opinions :) I think game accessibility can >>>surely benefit from this technology and that it definitely can be used to >>>include new gamers with impairments who are now left out. I guess this >>>would >>>still require good implementation and application of the technology, to >>>which I hope this community can contribute :) Can't wait to see how Natal >>>can be used to make games more accessible for sight-impaired gamers! >>> >>>Cheers :) >>> >>>Ries >>> >>> >>>*and worth surviving death, eh? Glad to hear again from you, M... :) >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: >>>To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" >>>Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:17 PM >>>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>>Controller >>> >>> >>>Thanks everyone! As I mentioned before, I will be speaking in Redmond in a >>>few weeks (a reschedule from a few weeks ago due to emergency surgery I >>>had) >>>about it and game accessibility. I used to work for Microsoft and have had >>>a >>>long standing relationship with them so they invited me to talk on behalf >>>of >>>AbleGamers and the IGDA SIG. >>> >>>I'll be having one-on-one and group meetings with several of their >>>engineers >>>on the project, etc. in addition to my two schedule talks. If anyone would >>>like me to cover a particular concern, please email me off-list at >>>hinn at uiuc.edu and we can discuss your concerns in more detail so that I >>>have >>>more information to give the engineers that would go beyond media >>>coverage. >>>This is definitely our chance to get information directly to those who can >>>make changes happen now! It actually worked out better to have had to >>>delay >>>the talk because now we can all talk about it on here and off-list BEFORE >>>I >>>go so that I can help make sure that they know everything they can to make >>>this project as accessible as possible. Yay! This is going to be a big win >>>for the movement, I know it! >>> >>>I have been working with Microsoft and AbleGamers for a long time now on >>>this but due to an NDA none of us who were included in the conversation >>>were >>>able to mention anything about the project -- now that it's been announced >>>we can say that we knew it existed but nothing else that they haven't >>>already told the public. Please feel free to email Mark Barlet >>>(mark at ablegamers.com) as well with comments that we can get to their >>>engineers -- I can reveal now that he's the only other person that was >>>involved outside Microsoft. :) They reached out to both of us as >>>individuals >>>and we've been working together ever since. >>> >>>Microsoft is the first console company who has involved any of us in the >>>game accessibility movement at this level and this is exciting! I'm glad >>>the >>>announcement finally came out so that we can now freely discuss the >>>project! >>>Don't let this chance pass us by -- let me know what you are thinking so >>>we >>>can get information to those in positions of power at Microsoft to make >>>change happen! >>> >>>Michelle >>> >>>---- Original message ---- >>>>Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:54:10 -0400 >>>>From: Mark Barlet >>>>Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: Microsoft's Alternative >>>>Controller >>>>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>> >>>> we did a stroy on it the day it was announced and >>>> there are some great comments from the community >>>> that may be worth taking a look at. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://ablegamers.com/xbox-360-news/571-natal-be-a-disabled-gaming-revolution.html >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Nathalie Caron >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am preparing an article on the subject and will >>>> be contacting Microsoft with some questions. >>>> >>>> If you have some you'd like answered about this >>>> technology, please let me know asap and I will >>>> include them. >>>> >>>> NC >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:44 AM, David Colven >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have hopes that it may be a useful tool for >>>> people with Asperger's >>>> syndrome or similar inter-personal communication >>>> problems. >>>> >>>> It would be interesting to see if it could be >>>> refined to produce switch >>>> actions - I am with the Cambridge team at the >>>> AEGIS meeting and they are >>>> very interested. >>>> >>>> How about the 3D web cam I've seen advertised? >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> David Colven >>>> Technical Advisor >>>> 01865 759813 >>>> 077121 68901 >>>> Why not visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>>> >>>> Please visit our website: www.ace-centre.org.uk >>>> >>>> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no >>>> 1040868) You can donate here >>>> now! >>>> >>>> The information contained in this email is >>>> confidential and may be >>>> privileged. It is intended for the addressee >>>> only. If you are not the >>>> intended recipient, please delete this email >>>> immediately. The contents >>>> of this email must not be disclosed or copied >>>> without the sender's >>>> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for >>>> viruses, so please scan >>>> all attachments. >>>> >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org >>>> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] >>>> > On Behalf Of will wade >>>> > Sent: 02 June 2009 19:14 >>>> > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List >>>> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Project Natal: >>>> Microsoft's Alternative >>>> > Controller >>>> > >>>> > Its a interesting development. >>>> > I agree - as it stands its not that >>>> potentially useful to >>>> > children/adults with a lot of movement. What >>>> would be interesting if >>>> > the technology could be used to look at a >>>> particular reliable movement >>>> > of a person for a particular output - e.g. >>>> move a hand inwards at a >>>> > certain angle in relation to the body, or a >>>> head movement to the left, >>>> > and that produces a output just like a switch. >>>> Something like this is >>>> > currently being developed by the inference >>>> group at Cambridge so watch >>>> > this space.. >>>> > >>>> > w >>>> > >>>> > 2009/6/2 Nathalie Caron >>>> : >>>> > > Hi Barrie, and group: >>>> > > >>>> > > I watched the Microsoft presentation >>>> yesterday and while it has a >>>> lot of >>>> > > potential to increase mainstream >>>> accessibility, I think there is >>>> some >>>> > way to >>>> > > go in order for it to be accessible to all. >>>> > > >>>> > > I can already imagine one of my friends, who >>>> argued the same point. >>>> He >>>> > has >>>> > > CP and is in a wheel chair with minimal hand >>>> coordination, has >>>> managed >>>> > to >>>> > > adapt to use a controller, but does not >>>> speak (unless using a voice >>>> > device). >>>> > > I don't think Natal would be able to >>>> recognize his facial >>>> expressions as >>>> > > well, nor would it be able to find >>>> expressions in his synthetic >>>> voice >>>> > > (thinking in reference to that interactive >>>> game with the little boy >>>> - >>>> > Tobi >>>> > > was it?) >>>> > > >>>> > > I think that if Microsoft was really serious >>>> about this, they would >>>> have >>>> > to >>>> > > look, perhaps into neurofeedback for those >>>> who do not have the means >>>> to >>>> > use >>>> > > their bodies, voices and facial expressions. >>>> Surely they have the >>>> > ability to >>>> > > implement something like this en masse. >>>> > > >>>> > > I don't know if they would consider that, or >>>> if they are satisfied >>>> by >>>> > having >>>> > > already "broken new ground"... I guess we >>>> will have to watch and >>>> see. >>>> > > >>>> > > Nathalie >>>> > > http://gamefwd.org >>>> > > >>>> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Barrie Ellis >>>> > >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Lots of potential for improved >>>> accessibility? But will it be >>>> > realised... >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Microsoft announce Project Natal - gesture, >>>> facial expressions and >>>> > voice >>>> > >> recognition: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/microsofts-new-controller.html >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller- >>>> > with-project-natal >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > >> games_access mailing list >>>> > >> games_access at igda.org >>>> > >> >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > > games_access mailing list >>>> > > games_access at igda.org >>>> > > >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > games_access mailing list >>>> > games_access at igda.org >>>> > >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> games_access mailing list >>>> games_access at igda.org >>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark C. Barlet >>>> Editor-in-Chief >>>> AbleGamers.com >>>>________________ >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>games_access mailing list >>>>games_access at igda.org >>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>>....................................... >>>these are mediocre times and people are >>>losing hope. it's hard for many people >>>to believe that there are extraordinary >>>things inside themselves, as well as >>>others. i hope you can keep an open >>>mind. >>> -- "unbreakable" >>>....................................... >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>games_access mailing list >>>games_access at igda.org >>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> ....................................... >> these are mediocre times and people are >> losing hope. it's hard for many people >> to believe that there are extraordinary >> things inside themselves, as well as >> others. i hope you can keep an open >> mind. >> -- "unbreakable" >> ....................................... >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> > > > >-- >Reid Kimball >Game Designer / Writer >http://game.rbkdesign.com >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... From inrnette at aol.com Sun Jun 7 01:17:46 2009 From: inrnette at aol.com (John Morgan) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:17:46 +0000 Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games Message-ID: <1730772470-1244348371-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1113347264-@bxe1041.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Exactly! I guess that games/educational software developers haven't figured out yet that if they make them for use of ALL would also bring in revevue. Just do it to include ALL in the first place. I can only adapt a game just so far before the user loses independence! ------Original Message------ From: hinn at illinois.edu Sender: games_access-bounces at igda.org To: jbannick at 7128.com To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List ReplyTo: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] List for accessible games Sent: Jun 6, 2009 8:40 PM I think Barrie (correct me if I'm wrong Barrie!) means AAA titles when he says mainstream (ie, games packaged for retail sales at places like target, best buy, etc). Those are the ones that are least likely to have considered disabled gamers and are the ones a lot of us are fighting to change. Not a commentary on your games! Just saying that there's an important distinction -- the big industry titles are what gets a lot of requests for accessibility because gamers want equal access to big consumer titles. Michelle ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:56:14 -0400 (EDT) >From: "John Bannick" >Subject: [games_access] List for accessible games >To: games_access at igda.org > >Barrie, > >"We should start a record of mainstream games that have deliberately >considered disabled gamers" > >Please add our entire inventory of 30 plus games at 7-128 Software to your >list; since you yourself have caused disabled-friendly features to be >added. > >BTW. We're currently building a mainstream travel game that includes ideas >from yourself, Ian over at BBC, Reid, and our blind colleagues. > >John Bannick >CTO >7-128 Software > > >_______________________________________________ >games_access mailing list >games_access at igda.org >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ....................................... these are mediocre times and people are losing hope. it's hard for many people to believe that there are extraordinary things inside themselves, as well as others. i hope you can keep an open mind. -- "unbreakable" ....................................... _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From sandra_uhling at web.de Sun Jun 7 04:14:06 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:14:06 +0200 Subject: [games_access] mainstream games, was List for accessible games Message-ID: <754898563@web.de> Hi, Maybe it is important to make official symbols, official rules (or recommendations). Maybe the symbols should be protected as trademarks ? Imagine there is a time, where Game Accessibility is normal. But what will happen, when the symbols are used in the wrong way ? Best regards, Sandra ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From javier.mairena at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 11:12:36 2009 From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:12:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] from Spain Message-ID: Hi all, I'm Javier Mairena, from Spain. I'm software developer with special interest in accessible videogames development. My web: www.javiermairena.net (only in spanish, sorry). I have send a document to www.accessibility.nl about accessible videogames development in Spanish, because there is nothing in my language (the third most used in the world) about this in that web. But i have no answer about that. Is here in this mailing list someone of this organization? The document is this: http://www.javiermairena.net/docs/videojuegosaccesibles.pdf "Videojuegos accesibles, porqu? y c?mo hacerlos", in english: "Accessible Videogames, why and how to develop them". Please, make a copy of the document instead put a link to the document in my web. Also, I made a video with visually disabled gamers opinions, in Spanish too, that would be great to be in the media section of the accessibility.nl web. This is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPyEw8PzwpE Another think that I want to talk is about accessible videogames standards. In Spain im talking with state's organizations that want to work on this and I want to know if someone here of the IGDA or other organization working on this. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Mon Jun 8 12:32:42 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:32:42 +0200 Subject: [games_access] from Spain Message-ID: <756975259@web.de> Hello Javier, welcome on list :-) > Another think that I want to talk is about accessible videogames standards. We do have: * an IGSA GA-SIG top ten list (link?) * an IGDA GA-SIG whitepaper * an IGDA GA-SIG DVD * lots of know how * GamerOver! rules http://ua-games.gr/game-over/game_levels.html (the Game GameOver is to "frustrate" game developers and Terretrial Invaders is to show a very good example) * I have a mindmap with lots of ideas and rules * Reid wanted to write a document about [CC] (closed-captioning) ? (I am also waiting for this nice document :-) ) Best regards, Sandra Uhling (My interestes are Games for Health with focus on Exergaming and Game Accessbility) www.MachineDance.de ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From javier.mairena at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 14:14:20 2009 From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:14:20 +0200 Subject: [games_access] from Spain In-Reply-To: <756975259@web.de> References: <756975259@web.de> Message-ID: Hello Sandra, Thanks for the information. I have already read all documents that I have found. And play "game over" game. The only thing that I don't know is IGDA GA-SIG DVD. My document in Spanish is based in all this documents. But I want to know is someone is working in something more about that, for example creating standards icons to show the accessibility of the game to the buyers. 2009/6/8 Sandra Uhling > Hello Javier, > > welcome on list :-) > > > > Another think that I want to talk is about accessible videogames > standards. > > > We do have: > * an IGSA GA-SIG top ten list (link?) > * an IGDA GA-SIG whitepaper > * an IGDA GA-SIG DVD > * lots of know how > * GamerOver! rules http://ua-games.gr/game-over/game_levels.html > (the Game GameOver is to "frustrate" game developers and Terretrial > Invaders is to show a very good example) > > * I have a mindmap with lots of ideas and rules > > * Reid wanted to write a document about [CC] (closed-captioning) ? > (I am also waiting for this nice document :-) ) > > > Best regards, > Sandra Uhling > > (My interestes are Games for Health with focus on Exergaming and Game > Accessbility) > www.MachineDance.de > > ____________________________________________________________ > Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jun 9 16:07:21 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:07:21 +0100 Subject: [games_access] from Spain In-Reply-To: References: <756975259@web.de> Message-ID: <335F8B7B333E488DA8F5F0C043635F4A@OneSwitch> Hello Javier, There's been talks over a system of icons to rate accessibility within the GASIG but it has yet to turn into anything solid. For your information, Atari used this in the early 1980's: Not really all that appropriate these days. Namco have very recently used the universal symbol of disability - similar to this - to mark out their accessibility feature in Star Trigon for the PC: Although this is often named the universal symbol of disability - it's not really representative of many disabilities. It is very well known however around the world. What would be needed though to represent the main features? Several icons - or just one? A graded ratings system? A linked web-site with a break down of what each games accessibility features are and how good they are? Lots of questions... Barrie www.OneSwitch.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Javier Mairena To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] from Spain Hello Sandra, Thanks for the information. I have already read all documents that I have found. And play "game over" game. The only thing that I don't know is IGDA GA-SIG DVD. My document in Spanish is based in all this documents. But I want to know is someone is working in something more about that, for example creating standards icons to show the accessibility of the game to the buyers. 2009/6/8 Sandra Uhling Hello Javier, welcome on list :-) > Another think that I want to talk is about accessible videogames standards. We do have: * an IGSA GA-SIG top ten list (link?) * an IGDA GA-SIG whitepaper * an IGDA GA-SIG DVD * lots of know how * GamerOver! rules http://ua-games.gr/game-over/game_levels.html (the Game GameOver is to "frustrate" game developers and Terretrial Invaders is to show a very good example) * I have a mindmap with lots of ideas and rules * Reid wanted to write a document about [CC] (closed-captioning) ? (I am also waiting for this nice document :-) ) Best regards, Sandra Uhling (My interestes are Games for Health with focus on Exergaming and Game Accessbility) www.MachineDance.de ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: atari-specialfeature-bear.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5901 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: International Symbol of Access.gif Type: image/gif Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available URL: From richard at audiogames.net Mon Jun 15 10:53:09 2009 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:53:09 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" References: <756975259@web.de> <335F8B7B333E488DA8F5F0C043635F4A@OneSwitch> Message-ID: <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> Hi, 1) from http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/06/67677679/1: "On the extraordinary success of its Nintendo Wii video game console, Nintendo says it's due, in part, to making games accessible to wide audiences. And with an unannounced - but now confirmed - feature built into future Nintendo Wii titles, the Japanese gaming giant is taking this accessibility to the next level. Beginning with the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii (due this holiday season), players will be able to pause a game during a particularly difficult level and let the game take over to complete the level. Press a button at any time to resume playing. This will help reduce barriers of entry for new or younger players - without purchasing a strategy guide or resorting to websites that list cheat codes.In an exclusive interview with Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto, the legendary game designer confirmed this optional feature called "demo play" (tentative name) is something the development team has been working on. "In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too" Miyamoto says." 2) from http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174774: "Sure, you and I can beat the original Super Mario Bros. on one life in under 6 minutes (well, maybe you can, anyway...). But with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Nintendo wants your mom and dad and non-gaming friends in on the fun, too -- and they have a plan to make sure the difficulty doesn't get too overwhelming. Speaking to USA Today (via Joystiq), Shigeru Miyamoto confirmed that New Super Mario Bros. Wii will be the first Wii game to have what's tentatively being called the "demo play" feature: In tough portions, a player can literally let the game play itself, and then jump back in when they feel comfortable once again assuming control. In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready," said Miyamoto through a translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too." You might recall this feature first showed up in a patent filed by Miyamoto back in January. According to the description in that patent, there was to be three different modes to this "demo play" option: One that lets a video walkthrough play in the corner but not interrupt gameplay; one that would stop gameplay for a full-screen walkthrough, and players could jump into the walkthrough and take control; and one that would allow players to choose where in the game to start, similar to the scene selection of a DVD. Curiously, the patent specifically mentioned that if a player jumps ahead with the aid of the video walkthrough, they would be unable to save their progress. Miyamoto didn't specify whether this is still the case to USA Today, but then, he really didn't give many details at all, so it's hard to say how much of the original patent's description will actually be used. " Although not the most elegant of solutions (adaptive game difficulty anyone?), another small step in the right direction :) Greets, Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com Mon Jun 15 11:03:28 2009 From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= =?UTF-8?B?44CCIg==?=) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:03:28 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" In-Reply-To: <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> References: <756975259@web.de> <335F8B7B333E488DA8F5F0C043635F4A@OneSwitch> <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> Message-ID: <94440773-4548-48CF-B46C-59C73A104B23@btinternet.com> Richard, are you not concerned by the "patent" aspect? amazon's patent on one click seems to be holding, and this kind of 'progress' I can live without. having said which auto-pilot has been around a while, so without being a patent lawyer... cheers ~:" On 15 Jun 2009, at 15:53, AudioGames.net wrote: > Hi, > > 1) from http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/06/67677679/1 > : > > "On the extraordinary success of its Nintendo Wii video game > console, Nintendo says it's due, in part, to making games accessible > to wide audiences. And with an unannounced ? but now confirmed ? > feature built into future Nintendo Wii titles, the Japanese gaming > giant is taking this accessibility to the next level. Beginning with > the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii (due this holiday season), > players will be able to pause a game during a particularly difficult > level and let the game take over to complete the level. Press a > button at any time to resume playing. This will help reduce barriers > of entry for new or younger players ? without purchasing a strategy > guide or resorting to websites that list cheat codes.In an exclusive > interview with Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto, the legendary game > designer confirmed this optional feature called "demo > play" (tentative name) is something the development team has been > working on. "In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is > experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear > troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, > through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future > games, too" Miyamoto says." > > 2) from http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174774: > > "Sure, you and I can beat the original Super Mario Bros. on one life > in under 6 minutes (well, maybe you can, anyway...). But with New > Super Mario Bros. Wii, Nintendo wants your mom and dad and non- > gaming friends in on the fun, too -- and they have a plan to make > sure the difficulty doesn't get too overwhelming. Speaking to USA > Today (via Joystiq), Shigeru Miyamoto confirmed that New Super Mario > Bros. Wii will be the first Wii game to have what's tentatively > being called the "demo play" feature: In tough portions, a player > can literally let the game play itself, and then jump back in when > they feel comfortable once again assuming control. In New Super > Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, > this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when > they're ready," said Miyamoto through a translator. "And yes, we're > looking into this for future games, too." > You might recall this feature first showed up in a patent filed by > Miyamoto back in January. According to the description in that > patent, there was to be three different modes to this "demo play" > option: One that lets a video walkthrough play in the corner but not > interrupt gameplay; one that would stop gameplay for a full-screen > walkthrough, and players could jump into the walkthrough and take > control; and one that would allow players to choose where in the > game to start, similar to the scene selection of a DVD. > Curiously, the patent specifically mentioned that if a player jumps > ahead with the aid of the video walkthrough, they would be unable to > save their progress. Miyamoto didn't specify whether this is still > the case to USA Today, but then, he really didn't give many details > at all, so it's hard to say how much of the original patent's > description will actually be used. " > > Although not the most elegant of solutions (adaptive game difficulty > anyone?), another small step in the right direction :) > > Greets, > > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Mon Jun 15 12:35:54 2009 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:35:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] mainstream games, was List for accessible games In-Reply-To: <754898563@web.de> References: <754898563@web.de> Message-ID: <176E2D62-B937-4E3A-B75B-096C5CF7DBDD@pininteractive.com> We can use Creative Commons license for protecting the symbols /thomas (who is back after a couple of months in the teaching trenches, and a week of vacation) On 7 jun 2009, at 10.14, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hi, > > Maybe it is important to make official symbols, official rules (or > recommendations). > Maybe the symbols should be protected as trademarks ? > > Imagine there is a time, where Game Accessibility is normal. > But what will happen, when the symbols are used in the wrong way ? > > Best regards, > Sandra > ____________________________________________________________ > Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access From richard at audiogames.net Mon Jun 15 12:49:54 2009 From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:49:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" References: <756975259@web.de> <335F8B7B333E488DA8F5F0C043635F4A@OneSwitch> <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> <94440773-4548-48CF-B46C-59C73A104B23@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <6AF1E4575179450A9D7C06F60310437A@Delletje> Yes, game accessibility patents are alarming if it means that game accessibility solutions can not be used freely by developers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "~:'' ????????????" To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Cc: AudioGames.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" Richard, are you not concerned by the "patent" aspect? amazon's patent on one click seems to be holding, and this kind of 'progress' I can live without. having said which auto-pilot has been around a while, so without being a patent lawyer... cheers ~:" On 15 Jun 2009, at 15:53, AudioGames.net wrote: Hi, 1) from http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/06/67677679/1: "On the extraordinary success of its Nintendo Wii video game console, Nintendo says it's due, in part, to making games accessible to wide audiences. And with an unannounced ? but now confirmed ? feature built into future Nintendo Wii titles, the Japanese gaming giant is taking this accessibility to the next level. Beginning with the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii (due this holiday season), players will be able to pause a game during a particularly difficult level and let the game take over to complete the level. Press a button at any time to resume playing. This will help reduce barriers of entry for new or younger players ? without purchasing a strategy guide or resorting to websites that list cheat codes.In an exclusive interview with Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto, the legendary game designer confirmed this optional feature called "demo play" (tentative name) is something the development team has been working on. "In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too" Miyamoto says." 2) from http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174774: "Sure, you and I can beat the original Super Mario Bros. on one life in under 6 minutes (well, maybe you can, anyway...). But with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Nintendo wants your mom and dad and non-gaming friends in on the fun, too -- and they have a plan to make sure the difficulty doesn't get too overwhelming. Speaking to USA Today (via Joystiq), Shigeru Miyamoto confirmed that New Super Mario Bros. Wii will be the first Wii game to have what's tentatively being called the "demo play" feature: In tough portions, a player can literally let the game play itself, and then jump back in when they feel comfortable once again assuming control. In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready," said Miyamoto through a translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too." You might recall this feature first showed up in a patent filed by Miyamoto back in January. According to the description in that patent, there was to be three different modes to this "demo play" option: One that lets a video walkthrough play in the corner but not interrupt gameplay; one that would stop gameplay for a full-screen walkthrough, and players could jump into the walkthrough and take control; and one that would allow players to choose where in the game to start, similar to the scene selection of a DVD. Curiously, the patent specifically mentioned that if a player jumps ahead with the aid of the video walkthrough, they would be unable to save their progress. Miyamoto didn't specify whether this is still the case to USA Today, but then, he really didn't give many details at all, so it's hard to say how much of the original patent's description will actually be used. " Although not the most elegant of solutions (adaptive game difficulty anyone?), another small step in the right direction :) Greets, Richard _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Mon Jun 15 16:27:05 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:27:05 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Hezi Gangina Message-ID: There's a fine account of Hezi Gangina, the current Pro Evolution Soccer Israeli champion - who plays one-handed: http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/hezi-gangina-israeli-pes-champion.html Well worth a read. Any suggestions for sponsorship - then please send them Hezi's way. Barrie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk Tue Jun 16 03:02:33 2009 From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:02:33 +0100 Subject: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" In-Reply-To: <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> References: <756975259@web.de><335F8B7B333E488DA8F5F0C043635F4A@OneSwitch> <624E1E104DA341CBAF6003BA726F22E2@Delletje> Message-ID: Demo Play is a really nice idea that will suit certain types of games really well. However the patent side is worrying as you both say. I was really pleased when I saw that Forza 3 will feature driver assist modes - including auto-braking. I think I saw this first on F355-Ferrari Challenge by SEGA. It would be terrible if SEGA were to sue over something that simply makes play more accessible for more players.... Would Nintendo sue if someone implemented something similar to their demo/cheat system? I wonder... Barrie ----- Original Message ----- From: AudioGames.net To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: [games_access] E3 & Accessibility: Nintendo 'Demo Play" Hi, 1) from http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/06/67677679/1: "On the extraordinary success of its Nintendo Wii video game console, Nintendo says it's due, in part, to making games accessible to wide audiences. And with an unannounced - but now confirmed - feature built into future Nintendo Wii titles, the Japanese gaming giant is taking this accessibility to the next level. Beginning with the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii (due this holiday season), players will be able to pause a game during a particularly difficult level and let the game take over to complete the level. Press a button at any time to resume playing. This will help reduce barriers of entry for new or younger players - without purchasing a strategy guide or resorting to websites that list cheat codes.In an exclusive interview with Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto, the legendary game designer confirmed this optional feature called "demo play" (tentative name) is something the development team has been working on. "In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too" Miyamoto says." 2) from http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174774: "Sure, you and I can beat the original Super Mario Bros. on one life in under 6 minutes (well, maybe you can, anyway...). But with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Nintendo wants your mom and dad and non-gaming friends in on the fun, too -- and they have a plan to make sure the difficulty doesn't get too overwhelming. Speaking to USA Today (via Joystiq), Shigeru Miyamoto confirmed that New Super Mario Bros. Wii will be the first Wii game to have what's tentatively being called the "demo play" feature: In tough portions, a player can literally let the game play itself, and then jump back in when they feel comfortable once again assuming control. In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready," said Miyamoto through a translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too." You might recall this feature first showed up in a patent filed by Miyamoto back in January. According to the description in that patent, there was to be three different modes to this "demo play" option: One that lets a video walkthrough play in the corner but not interrupt gameplay; one that would stop gameplay for a full-screen walkthrough, and players could jump into the walkthrough and take control; and one that would allow players to choose where in the game to start, similar to the scene selection of a DVD. Curiously, the patent specifically mentioned that if a player jumps ahead with the aid of the video walkthrough, they would be unable to save their progress. Miyamoto didn't specify whether this is still the case to USA Today, but then, he really didn't give many details at all, so it's hard to say how much of the original patent's description will actually be used. " Although not the most elegant of solutions (adaptive game difficulty anyone?), another small step in the right direction :) Greets, Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Wed Jun 17 02:59:36 2009 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:59:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] something for MS Message-ID: <772935600@web.de> Hi all, I forgot one thing. Here it is also for gamer without disabilities: Game: Dance Games like "Dance Dance Revolution", other Machine Dance Games System: XBox360 Problem: Very good hard pads are not supported by the XBox360 Result: We (Machine Dancer) do not recommend the XBox360 for Dance Games It would be great, when the XBox360 could support pads like "Impact Arcade". Best regards, Sandra ____________________________________________________________ Text: GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From javier.mairena at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 12:32:53 2009 From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:32:53 +0200 Subject: [games_access] AudioDisc Message-ID: Hi all. I have allready transalted my freeware spanish accesible game to english. AudioDisc is a game accessible for visually disabled gamers. Also, becaouse AudioDisc have images, the game can be played by auditory disabled gamers too. With the tow player game mode a blind gamer could play againts a deaf gamer. You can find all information about the game and how to download it here: www.javiermairena.net/audiodisc.html I hope you find it interesting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: