From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 02:31:30 2009
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:31:30 +0200
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
In-Reply-To: <4A9C3C81.2020100@uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4A9C3C81.2020100@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <b900ac550908312331h66a0598cm446418b132ab23e@mail.gmail.com>

Good work, but you choose green color to sign a good thing and red color to
a bad thing. I know this is a international concept, but a lot of people
have problems with that colors. I think is better to use blue and red, for
example.

2009/8/31 Karen Collins <collinsk at uwaterloo.ca>

> Hello Everyone
> I've been developing a system especially for hearing-impaired gamers called
> SoundSign. It involves an icon system that illustrates what sound effects
> are occuring where/when, giving an icon and proximity and directional
> information. I'm hoping that if people like it we can get it into some
> mainstream games.
>
> For now, we've developed a game you can download and play to see how the
> technology works. The game is called Robot Island: collect gems and avoid
> robots. The gems and robots use sound to indicate where they are--for those
> without hearing abilities or who just want to turn the sound off, the
> SoundSign icon system substitutes the information in a visual form.
>
> Get it here: www.gamessound.com/ss.htm
>
> I'd love to have your feedback and feel free to share the link. If you like
> it, tell your favourite game developer you want to see something like this
> in their games!
> Karen
>
> --
>
> Karen Collins, PhD
> Canada Research Chair
> Canadian Centre of Arts and Technology
> University of Waterloo
> 200 University Ave W
> Waterloo, ON N2L 3G1
> 519 888-4567 x 38326
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090901/13a5cd06/attachment.htm>

From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com  Tue Sep  1 02:36:25 2009
From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= =?UTF-8?B?Ig==?=)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:36:25 +0100
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
In-Reply-To: <4A9C3C81.2020100@uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4A9C3C81.2020100@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <620DE525-4BEB-40FD-81CB-93C68F25D8DD@btinternet.com>

patent pending

regards


On 31 Aug 2009, at 22:11, Karen Collins wrote:

> Hello Everyone
> I've been developing a system especially for hearing-impaired gamers  
> called SoundSign. It involves an icon system that illustrates what  
> sound effects are occuring where/when, giving an icon and proximity  
> and directional information. I'm hoping that if people like it we  
> can get it into some mainstream games.
>
> For now, we've developed a game you can download and play to see how  
> the technology works. The game is called Robot Island: collect gems  
> and avoid robots. The gems and robots use sound to indicate where  
> they are--for those without hearing abilities or who just want to  
> turn the sound off, the SoundSign icon system substitutes the  
> information in a visual form.
>
> Get it here: www.gamessound.com/ss.htm
>
> I'd love to have your feedback and feel free to share the link. If  
> you like it, tell your favourite game developer you want to see  
> something like this in their games!
> Karen
>
> -- 
>
> Karen Collins, PhD
> Canada Research Chair
> Canadian Centre of Arts and Technology
> University of Waterloo
> 200 University Ave W
> Waterloo, ON N2L 3G1
> 519 888-4567 x 38326
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Sep  1 04:30:17 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:30:17 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
Message-ID: <892363531@web.de>

Hi,

thanks for the good example.

That is what I wanted to say:
A deaf gamer could use a "cheat" to have these soundsymbols in the game.

Or there is a very difficult key combination. A gamer who cannot use the function,
he could use a "cheat" so he just have to press one button.

Do we have a description or word for this "cheating", that is not cheating?

Best regards,
Sandra


______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From inrnette at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 08:12:50 2009
From: inrnette at aol.com (John Morgan)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:12:50 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
Message-ID: <1019088000-1251803758-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-429452559-@bda248.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Microsoft uses the term "sticky keys".
------Original Message------
From: Sandra Uhling
Sender: games_access-bounces at igda.org
To: games_access at igda.org
ReplyTo: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:30 AM

Hi,

thanks for the good example.

That is what I wanted to say:
A deaf gamer could use a "cheat" to have these soundsymbols in the game.

Or there is a very difficult key combination. A gamer who cannot use the function,
he could use a "cheat" so he just have to press one button.

Do we have a description or word for this "cheating", that is not cheating?

Best regards,
Sandra


______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From richard at audiogames.net  Tue Sep  1 07:18:04 2009
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:18:04 +0200
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
References: <4A9C3C81.2020100@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1E4EFB124F4C414B8401DB6E8472B93F@Delletje>

Hi Karen,

Nice to see you on this list as well and that you too are exploring 
alternatives to sound in games. I guess you are already aware of the article 
I wrote about this subject, but just in case you aren't, here's the link:

http://www.accessibility.nl/games/index.php?pagefile=soundalternative

I have only watched the movies on your site and have not yet played the 
example game but will do so when I have time. I'm wondering: what is your 
solution for sounds / sound sources that cannot be represented by iconic 
signs, especially when there are more sounds playing that are important for 
gameplay? For instance, introduce a new (non-)iconic sign language, or use 
an existing sign language, such as text/textual descriptions (see my sound 
balloons* example in the article)? Or something else?

In your Island-example the gameplay focuses on finding the crystals. Why did 
you choose to use the tick-sign, and not merely an iconic representation of 
the game objective - the crystal? To me it seems like a weird design 
decision. Also, the design is comprimised of three signs: a triangle 
indicating "direction", a tick-icon indicating "crystal/good/gameobjective" 
** and colour indicating "good". Why did you choose to make a combination of 
these three, while you could easily convey the same information with a much 
simpler design such as a (color-blind accessible) colored arrow (like the 
TomTom WoW-addon: 
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7032-TomTom.html ) ?

And have you considered animating your signs?

If you are interested a European partner, email me.

Best regards,

Richard


* one benefit of adding diegetic properties to the design of the sign (in 
the case of sound balloons, tying it to a location in the gameworld) is that 
the focus of the player is stimulated to remain in the diegetic part of the 
gameworld, and does not focus the player to switch his/her focus between the 
diegetic part of the gameworld and the non-diegetic part of the gameworld 
(HUD).

** ? if you are unaware of the game context/objective (finding crystals) 
this sign is very unclear.








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Collins" <collinsk at uwaterloo.ca>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:11 PM
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired


> Hello Everyone
> I've been developing a system especially for hearing-impaired gamers 
> called SoundSign. It involves an icon system that illustrates what sound 
> effects are occuring where/when, giving an icon and proximity and 
> directional information. I'm hoping that if people like it we can get it 
> into some mainstream games.
>
> For now, we've developed a game you can download and play to see how the 
> technology works. The game is called Robot Island: collect gems and avoid 
> robots. The gems and robots use sound to indicate where they are--for 
> those without hearing abilities or who just want to turn the sound off, 
> the SoundSign icon system substitutes the information in a visual form.
>
> Get it here: www.gamessound.com/ss.htm
>
> I'd love to have your feedback and feel free to share the link. If you 
> like it, tell your favourite game developer you want to see something like 
> this in their games!
> Karen
>
> -- 
>
> Karen Collins, PhD
> Canada Research Chair
> Canadian Centre of Arts and Technology
> University of Waterloo
> 200 University Ave W
> Waterloo, ON N2L 3G1
> 519 888-4567 x 38326
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 



From collinsk at uwaterloo.ca  Tue Sep  1 08:25:51 2009
From: collinsk at uwaterloo.ca (Karen Collins)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:25:51 -0400
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
Message-ID: <4A9D12CF.8080702@uwaterloo.ca>

Thanks for the suggestion, Javier. We have also built a black and white 
version for that very reason.

As for the anonymous comment about "patent pending" I honestly 
understand the skepticism--to many people it might raise a red flag that 
we're out to make money. Unfortunately having "commercializable IP" is a 
requirement now for most funding bodies in Canada (e.g. NSERC, C4, 
etc.). It was a *requirement* to file a patent application in order to 
get funds to build and test this project. Anybody who knows me, however, 
knows I'm not out to make money. Trust me, if I wanted to get rich, I 
wouldn't have become an academic! I don't even control the IP: the 
university owns it. My goal is to help people, however I can.

Karen




From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com  Tue Sep  1 09:51:34 2009
From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (=?UTF-8?B?In46Jycg44GC44KK44GM44Go44GG44GU44GW44GE44G+44GX44Gf?= =?UTF-8?B?Ig==?=)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:51:34 +0100
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
In-Reply-To: <4A9D12CF.8080702@uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4A9D12CF.8080702@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <7AF92855-E8C6-4D26-A1C5-6A27BFFEF4ED@btinternet.com>

Karen.

nothing anonymous about my comment...
I'm well known on this list and don't always remember to add a  
signature.

if you use mail.app you may notice an "icon system that illustrates  
what sound effects are occuring"

in fact I developed and was using such a system in 2001, you can try a  
more recent version from 2004 here:
http://www.peepo.co.uk it links to a large number of games with audio  
and icons....
iirc batman comics used to use pow bash etc...

I remain skeptical as you neither describe what aspects you consider  
patentable, nor provide a link for those interested, or wishing to  
object.

regards

~:"


On 1 Sep 2009, at 13:25, Karen Collins wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion, Javier. We have also built a black and  
> white version for that very reason.
>
> As for the anonymous comment about "patent pending" I honestly  
> understand the skepticism--to many people it might raise a red flag  
> that we're out to make money. Unfortunately having "commercializable  
> IP" is a requirement now for most funding bodies in Canada (e.g.  
> NSERC, C4, etc.). It was a *requirement* to file a patent  
> application in order to get funds to build and test this project.  
> Anybody who knows me, however, knows I'm not out to make money.  
> Trust me, if I wanted to get rich, I wouldn't have become an  
> academic! I don't even control the IP: the university owns it. My  
> goal is to help people, however I can.
>
> Karen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


Jonathan Chetwynd

j.chetwynd at btinternet.com
http://www.openicon.org/

+44 (0) 20 7978 1764


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090901/ce1ee831/attachment.htm>

From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:08:17 2009
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:08:17 -0400
Subject: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
In-Reply-To: <4A9D12CF.8080702@uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4A9D12CF.8080702@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <BAY134-W28C8B189F0F22EA09728ADD9F10@phx.gbl>


Personally, I'd be more skeptical (or doubtful) if you weren't out to make money.  Good to see some legitimacy.




 
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:25:51 -0400
> From: collinsk at uwaterloo.ca
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: Re: [games_access] developing system for hearing impaired
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, Javier. We have also built a black and white 
> version for that very reason.
> 
> As for the anonymous comment about "patent pending" I honestly 
> understand the skepticism--to many people it might raise a red flag that 
> we're out to make money. Unfortunately having "commercializable IP" is a 
> requirement now for most funding bodies in Canada (e.g. NSERC, C4, 
> etc.). It was a *requirement* to file a patent application in order to 
> get funds to build and test this project. Anybody who knows me, however, 
> knows I'm not out to make money. Trust me, if I wanted to get rich, I 
> wouldn't have become an academic! I don't even control the IP: the 
> university owns it. My goal is to help people, however I can.
> 
> Karen
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090901/ba5e41f9/attachment.htm>

From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:27:37 2009
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:27:37 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
In-Reply-To: <1019088000-1251803758-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-429452559-@bda248.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1019088000-1251803758-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-429452559-@bda248.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <BAY134-W3BFEE6FA4AE67D2114956D9F10@phx.gbl>


Hi, Sandra:

 

I believe it's simply a "user setting"/"game option"/"variable", because it could be potentially used by anyone no different than turning on or changing options for sound effects, difficulty setting, etc.  The question is whether or not those options are allowed to be changed in a particular competition.


I also believe, my opinion aside, that adhering to that vocabulary would help the cause.  If the rules of an event allowed certain "customizable settings" from person to person than the governing committee could simply determine whether that feature is a valid customizable setting for competition.  If you call it something outside of the normal vocabulary of the event (whatever that may be) then you will get more resistance.

However, first and foremost a competitor would have to be present that gave adequate challenge to the rest of the competition for the committee to even care.  Otherwise, there would be no need for a rule change.  eSport is a skeptical and untrusting crowd even in the "casual" atmosphere of gameplay recordings (such as MARP).  When changing or adding a rule they aren't just skeptical of the one that needs the rule but everyone else that may potentially exploit it.  Gamers are crafty.  That's how they think.

 

I don't recall if I stayed relatively on topic from the original post.  I hope my opinion was helpful.

-Troup

 

 
> To: games_access at igda.org
> From: inrnette at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:12:50 +0000
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> 
> Microsoft uses the term "sticky keys".
> ------Original Message------
> From: Sandra Uhling
> Sender: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> To: games_access at igda.org
> ReplyTo: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:30 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> thanks for the good example.
> 
> That is what I wanted to say:
> A deaf gamer could use a "cheat" to have these soundsymbols in the game.
> 
> Or there is a very difficult key combination. A gamer who cannot use the function,
> he could use a "cheat" so he just have to press one button.
> 
> Do we have a description or word for this "cheating", that is not cheating?
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> 
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090901/f9a5a95f/attachment.htm>

From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:47:05 2009
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:47:05 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
In-Reply-To: <BAY134-W3BFEE6FA4AE67D2114956D9F10@phx.gbl>
References: <1019088000-1251803758-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-429452559-@bda248.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<BAY134-W3BFEE6FA4AE67D2114956D9F10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY134-W27DA8AE2841DE8CA2199E3D9F10@phx.gbl>


Ah... for instance:

 

Someone attacking your initiative would call the change a "hack" (which makes it sound unfair/harmful) whereas if you called it a "custom setting" it would sound harmless and passive.  Then there are terms in between such as "Mod" or "Patch" that have their own meanings technically... but none of the terms are often used properly.  People just throw the words about to get a point across or identify with something similar.




 


From: foreversublime at hotmail.com
To: games_access at igda.org
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:27:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating



Hi, Sandra:
 
I believe it's simply a "user setting"/"game option"/"variable", because it could be potentially used by anyone no different than turning on or changing options for sound effects, difficulty setting, etc.  The question is whether or not those options are allowed to be changed in a particular competition.

I also believe, my opinion aside, that adhering to that vocabulary would help the cause.  If the rules of an event allowed certain "customizable settings" from person to person than the governing committee could simply determine whether that feature is a valid customizable setting for competition.  If you call it something outside of the normal vocabulary of the event (whatever that may be) then you will get more resistance.

However, first and foremost a competitor would have to be present that gave adequate challenge to the rest of the competition for the committee to even care.  Otherwise, there would be no need for a rule change.  eSport is a skeptical and untrusting crowd even in the "casual" atmosphere of gameplay recordings (such as MARP).  When changing or adding a rule they aren't just skeptical of the one that needs the rule but everyone else that may potentially exploit it.  Gamers are crafty.  That's how they think.
 
I don't recall if I stayed relatively on topic from the original post.  I hope my opinion was helpful.

-Troup
 
 
> To: games_access at igda.org
> From: inrnette at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:12:50 +0000
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> 
> Microsoft uses the term "sticky keys".
> ------Original Message------
> From: Sandra Uhling
> Sender: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> To: games_access at igda.org
> ReplyTo: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:30 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> thanks for the good example.
> 
> That is what I wanted to say:
> A deaf gamer could use a "cheat" to have these soundsymbols in the game.
> 
> Or there is a very difficult key combination. A gamer who cannot use the function,
> he could use a "cheat" so he just have to press one button.
> 
> Do we have a description or word for this "cheating", that is not cheating?
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> 
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. Find out more.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090901/70b22ade/attachment.htm>

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Sep  1 16:30:45 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:30:45 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
Message-ID: <893486109@web.de>

Hi Matthias,

thank you very much. It is the answer :-)

I was very confused by an article I read long ago.
Sometimes Accessibility Topics are very very confusing :-)
It is great to have other people to ask.

So the only question is the same as for mainstreams: Game Accessiblity features :-)
And the allowance of the right "Customer setting" for everyone.


Best regards,
Sandra


Matthias Troup <foreversublime at hotmail.com> schrieb am 01.09.2009 19:47:11:
> Ah... for instance:
> 
> Someone attacking your initiative would call the change a "hack" (
> which makes it sound unfair/harmful) whereas if you called it a "
> custom setting" it would sound harmless and passive. Then there are 
> terms in between such as "Mod" or "Patch" that have their own 
> meanings technically... but none of the terms are often used properly.
> People just throw the words about to get a point across or identify 
> with something similar.
> 
> From: foreversublime at hotmail.com
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:27:37 -0400
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> 
> Hi, Sandra:
> 
> I believe it's simply a "user setting"/"game option"/"variable", 
> because it could be potentially used by anyone no different than 
> turning on or changing options for sound effects, difficulty setting, 
> etc. The question is whether or not those options are allowed to be 
> changed in a particular competition.
> 
> I also believe, my opinion aside, that adhering to that vocabulary 
> would help the cause. If the rules of an event allowed certain "
> customizable settings" from person to person than the governing 
> committee could simply determine whether that feature is a valid 
> customizable setting for competition. If you call it something 
> outside of the normal vocabulary of the event (whatever that may be) 
> then you will get more resistance.
> 
> However, first and foremost a competitor would have to be present 
> that gave adequate challenge to the rest of the competition for the 
> committee to even care. Otherwise, there would be no need for a rule 
> change. eSport is a skeptical and untrusting crowd even in the "
> casual" atmosphere of gameplay recordings (such as MARP). When 
> changing or adding a rule they aren't just skeptical of the one that 
> needs the rule but everyone else that may potentially exploit it. 
> Gamers are crafty. That's how they think.
> 
> I don't recall if I stayed relatively on topic from the original post.
> I hope my opinion was helpful.
> 
> -Troup
> 
> > To: games_access at igda.org
> > From: inrnette at aol.com
> > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:12:50 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> > 
> > Microsoft uses the term "sticky keys".
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Sandra Uhling
> > Sender: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> > To: games_access at igda.org
> > ReplyTo: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> > Subject: [games_access] Question eSport and cheating
> > Sent: Sep 1, 2009 2:30 AM
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > thanks for the good example.
> > 
> > That is what I wanted to say:
> > A deaf gamer could use a "cheat" to have these soundsymbols in the 
> game.
> > 
> > Or there is a very difficult key combination. A gamer who cannot 
> use the function,
> > he could use a "cheat" so he just have to press one button.
> > 
> > Do we have a description or word for this "cheating", that is not 
> cheating?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________
> > GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> > Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > 
> > 
> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> 
> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up 
> to on Facebook. Find out more.
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try 
> it now._______________________________________________ games_access 
> mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/
> 
> listinfo/games_access


______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From hinn at illinois.edu  Tue Sep  1 21:08:26 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 2009 20:08:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] List Bounces from Michelle Hinn
In-Reply-To: <819F5FE505814C40A9C0E136B993B268@Delletje>
References: <887194738@web.de> <819F5FE505814C40A9C0E136B993B268@Delletje>
Message-ID: <20090901200826.BXX10131@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Hi all,

My apartment entered the middle of a severe electrical storm and I have no internet and have been working from home due to medical reasons for months now. I just ran up to a local coffee shop to get wifi access to clear things out but if you are emailing me and not hearing back from me and/or getting bounces from me when posting to this list, that is why. Hopefully at least the internet will be working by the end of Thursday...not much hope for my health working by then!!

Cheer all!
Michelle
Chair, Game Accessibility SIG
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep  2 15:24:27 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:24:27 +0200
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
Message-ID: <894880527@web.de>

Hi,

I got interesting feedback from German gamer.

One said that he thinks it is very interesting for eSport.
But important is that [CC] does not give people who use it, an advantage.

This would bring our last two topics together :-)

Best regards,
Sandra

______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From hinn at illinois.edu  Wed Sep  2 16:29:02 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 2009 15:29:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
In-Reply-To: <894880527@web.de>
References: <894880527@web.de>
Message-ID: <20090902152902.BXY16067@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Odd discussion -- sorry I missed most of it while my internet's been backlogged. The person who is playing that does not require [cc] for physical reasons would be the one who had the advantage...if the other player could not hear and had no [cc]. With [cc] that helps even the playing field. But perhaps this was already raised. 

It seems like this is a bit of an obvious conclusion. But if a person using it was not hearing impaired and was using as a pay to "hear" more against a person who was also not hearing impaired, it *could* be a cheat. There are always going to be people who want to cheat the system...

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:24:27 +0200
>From: Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>  
>Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign  
>To: games_access at igda.org
>
>Hi,
>
>I got interesting feedback from German gamer.
>
>One said that he thinks it is very interesting for eSport.
>But important is that [CC] does not give people who use it, an advantage.
>
>This would bring our last two topics together :-)
>
>Best regards,
>Sandra
>
>______________________________________________________
>GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
>
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Sep  3 08:12:11 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:12:11 +0200
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
Message-ID: <896108544@web.de>

Hi,

well it will always be little bit unfair:

no [CC]
* hearing is in advantage

[CC]
* one who use it could be in advantage
* special one who can also hear

The point is that the [CC] should have "equal" information like the represented sound.
And that is something [CC] wants to be anyway?
I never heard about it, that [CC] will give someone an advantage :-)
(Maybe hearing people have to train their hearing little bit more?)

My personal opinion is, that [CC] available for everyone would be the best.


I am looking for a term, a description of this.
Universal Accessibility has another meaning.
Bring them to the "same level" is also not useful.
Does anyone has an idea?

Best regards,
Sandra



________________________________________________________________
Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 14:26:59 2009
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:26:59 -0400
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
In-Reply-To: <896108544@web.de>
References: <896108544@web.de>
Message-ID: <BAY134-W128AB02FCC400F35C2A424D9EF0@phx.gbl>


Hello:

 

The slang term is "even playing field", but there's probably a snappier one-word answer.  "Even playing field" is a good term because it suggests that although both sides are not exactly the same, they are balanced (Might vs. Magic, for instance).

 

I'm very selective about how things are phrased when it comes to eSport.  Hearing people are not in advantage with no CC.  Hearing people are the standard - the control group - the common demoninator.  Hearing-impaired people are, however, at a disadvantage.

 

Unfortunately, CC does not offer equal representation of sound.  Here's an example: Today I said "Good Morning" to my coworker as she passed by.  She said "sdafj;asdf" at the same time.  I have no idea what she said because the sounds happened at the same time.  If you applied this to a game - you're attacking a monster (any one of the following: growling, gunshots, alarms, explosions) and some unrelated atmoshperic cues and other monster sounds happen but are overshadowed by the your event's sounds you wouldn't hear them.  However, if you had CC you would unfairly and unrightfully see that information displayed in text.  It's not just a matter of sounds overlapping one another - but also of focus.  When you're focused on one thing you are less attentive to other senses.  Even if you could hear something you may not be paying attention - but the more sensory cues you get - the better the chance it may grab your attention.

 

It's a sticky situation.  Sports are like science experiments.  You want an "even playing field" and have only one variable separate the competitors - their skill.  From an eSport Perspective (not an accessibility perspective), the question for me would be "Should the differentiating variables only be allowed between the game avatar and the game system?  Or can variables exist between the user and the game system?  For years games have allowed variable changes between the user and game avatar (choosing different characters than your competitors), that in turn affect the interaction between the avatar and the game system (my avatar has different abilities than your avatar).  Is it okay to bypass this so that the user can obtain different information directly from the game system and then affect his avatar?

 

Could it ever be perfect?  Or is to make CC available to everyone "good enough"?

 

I think it'll be interesting in the future - perhaps medicine will be able to reverse some of these disabilities - I wonder what design conventions will live on and gamers will say "why is that option even in the game!?" or "why is that feature a standard in all games?".

 

Thanks for opening this discussion, Sandra.




 
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:12:11 +0200
> From: sandra_uhling at web.de
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: Re: [games_access] SoundDesign
> 
> Hi,
> 
> well it will always be little bit unfair:
> 
> no [CC]
> * hearing is in advantage
> 
> [CC]
> * one who use it could be in advantage
> * special one who can also hear
> 
> The point is that the [CC] should have "equal" information like the represented sound.
> And that is something [CC] wants to be anyway?
> I never heard about it, that [CC] will give someone an advantage :-)
> (Maybe hearing people have to train their hearing little bit more?)
> 
> My personal opinion is, that [CC] available for everyone would be the best.
> 
> 
> I am looking for a term, a description of this.
> Universal Accessibility has another meaning.
> Bring them to the "same level" is also not useful.
> Does anyone has an idea?
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
> f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090903/ec0fac2d/attachment.htm>

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Sep  3 15:41:58 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:41:58 +0200
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
Message-ID: <896916716@web.de>

Hello Matthias,


"even playing field" is very good. Because this term is already used in eSport :-)

I know we cannot change everything. But it would be great to have some main barriers removed.
[CC] could be one of this.

And one point is: 
* do we have already Leagues with blind gamer?
* is there an interest to have this?
* what kind of games could be used?

I am wondering if blind gamers are interested in this.
They have to ask for it themselves and get active themselves.
I ask the german blind gamers if they are interested showing audio games on events.
But it looked like no one was interested. Of course I know that this is a huge effort for them,
to make this. But I have the feeling that they are not very interested in changes. 


(I hope this is not too off-topic and not disturbing.
I have some voluntary work to do with eSport.
So I got some question in my mind.)

Best regards,
Sandra
________________________________________________________________
Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 16:52:15 2009
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matthias Troup)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:52:15 -0400
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
In-Reply-To: <896916716@web.de>
References: <896916716@web.de>
Message-ID: <BAY134-W2139F6830CECE0EBBC6C4D9EF0@phx.gbl>


Hi, Sandra:

 

Awesome.  Sports in general have broadened their audience from technological imporovements across the board.

 

I don't know of blind eSport leagues.  However, there are leagues for blind "gamers" - but not what you may think.

 

There's an international game called "BeepBall".  It's similar to Baseball.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125054739963438235.html

 

If I were targeting an audience, I would say I don't just need a blind audience to pitch my blind eSport idea to - I need a blind audience that plays sports (a subgroup that feels the desire to compete) to pitch my idea to.  I could be very wrong, but I don't think it's the excersize Beep Ball players are after... otherwise, they'd do something easier than travel around the world to play each other.

 

I don't have an informed opinion on what types of games could be used, but I hope the Beep Ball example is encouraging.  Perhaps the beep ball example suggests something internationally popular or even a bit casual - like chess.  eBoard games shouldn't be left out of the equation, either.

Best,

 

-Matt


 
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:41:58 +0200
> From: sandra_uhling at web.de
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: Re: [games_access] SoundDesign
> 
> Hello Matthias,
> 
> 
> "even playing field" is very good. Because this term is already used in eSport :-)
> 
> I know we cannot change everything. But it would be great to have some main barriers removed.
> [CC] could be one of this.
> 
> And one point is: 
> * do we have already Leagues with blind gamer?
> * is there an interest to have this?
> * what kind of games could be used?
> 
> I am wondering if blind gamers are interested in this.
> They have to ask for it themselves and get active themselves.
> I ask the german blind gamers if they are interested showing audio games on events.
> But it looked like no one was interested. Of course I know that this is a huge effort for them,
> to make this. But I have the feeling that they are not very interested in changes. 
> 
> 
> (I hope this is not too off-topic and not disturbing.
> I have some voluntary work to do with eSport.
> So I got some question in my mind.)
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> ________________________________________________________________
> Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
> f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090903/e48c00f8/attachment.htm>

From hinn at illinois.edu  Fri Sep  4 00:05:56 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 2009 23:05:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] SoundDesign
In-Reply-To: <896916716@web.de>
References: <896916716@web.de>
Message-ID: <20090903230556.BYA10620@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

I don't think you are off topic. I'd take a look at how the paraolympics and special olympics do some things if you are looking at a sporting perspective and how assistive tech has been used there -- might find some useful things to bring into eSports.

I was only confused the other day because I hadn't read through the archives yet because I was trying to catch up quickly after losing my email and net connection for so many days and I always find the cheating issue odd...evening out the playing field is a good term but it's also not entirely right as you guys have pointed out. I'm not sure universal accessibility can really ever be fully realized...it seems like something to aspire to but even as we see with [cc] -- sometimes the [cc] gives a different sort of advantage in some ways just as it can give a disadvantage in other ways.

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:41:58 +0200
>From: Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] SoundDesign  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hello Matthias,
>
>
>"even playing field" is very good. Because this term is already used in eSport :-)
>
>I know we cannot change everything. But it would be great to have some main barriers removed.
>[CC] could be one of this.
>
>And one point is: 
>* do we have already Leagues with blind gamer?
>* is there an interest to have this?
>* what kind of games could be used?
>
>I am wondering if blind gamers are interested in this.
>They have to ask for it themselves and get active themselves.
>I ask the german blind gamers if they are interested showing audio games on events.
>But it looked like no one was interested. Of course I know that this is a huge effort for them,
>to make this. But I have the feeling that they are not very interested in changes. 
>
>
>(I hope this is not too off-topic and not disturbing.
>I have some voluntary work to do with eSport.
>So I got some question in my mind.)
>
>Best regards,
>Sandra
>________________________________________________________________
>Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
>f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Sep  4 07:09:31 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:09:31 +0200
Subject: [games_access]  eSport and AudioGames was SoundDesign
Message-ID: <897725328@web.de>

Hi,

well sometimes I am very happy that I am wrong :-)
The interest of german blind gamer is there :-)

I will find out, what properties an eSport games should have and what not.
(That is something I have to find out anyway).

Then I will sent this information to gameport, german blind gamers.
They will write an concept and I will discuss it with my contact.


I am not sure, when is the right time to contact other blind gamer communities.


Best regards,
Sandra
________________________________________________________________
Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Sep  4 07:31:38 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:31:38 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for basic information for 3D Audio in Games
Message-ID: <897753832@web.de>

Hi,

I would like to send a developer short and basic information about 3D Audio.
But I do not know a good document or link.

I am looking for something like the "Sound alternative Article".
That is a good start to explain someone what [CC] is.

I know there are lots of documents at http://audiogames.net/
But I do not know one with basic and short information.

Some 3D camera games have only easy and basic control.
Maybe these games could be added with 3D Audio?

Best regards,
Sandra
______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Sep 10 11:56:43 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:56:43 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Article about "skip-key" for games
Message-ID: <906577685@web.de>

Hi,

I got a link to an interesting article.
It is not about accessiblity.
It is more about general use of a "Skip to next level" button.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/09/10/why-can%E2%80%99t-i%E2%80%A6-skip-ahead-in-games/



Best regards,
Sandra
______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From richard at audiogames.net  Thu Sep 10 12:26:48 2009
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:26:48 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Article about "skip-key" for games
References: <906577685@web.de>
Message-ID: <757DF30A8AC44AADB945BBBFA1FB7FE2@Delletje>

Good find! Thanks!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:56 PM
Subject: [games_access] Article about "skip-key" for games


Hi,

I got a link to an interesting article.
It is not about accessiblity.
It is more about general use of a "Skip to next level" button.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/09/10/why-can%E2%80%99t-i%E2%80%A6-skip-ahead-in-games/



Best regards,
Sandra
______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Sep 12 12:27:36 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:27:36 +0200
Subject: [games_access] misunderstanding of game accessibility
Message-ID: <909462943@web.de>

Hello all,

did you also make the experience that the whole
game accessibility and sometimes part of it are  misunderstood?

I think it is not easy to explain. I hope I can write an 
easy to understand article in the future.

It is hard to explain that it is not only for people with disabilities.
And "one button start" is also misunderstood.
Also that game do not need a screen to be a game is misunderstood.

I think the best way is to have an article about it
and just send the link, otherwise it would always take too much energy :-(


I have one positive message :-)
I wrote an article about audiogames "playing without graphic".
The owner of the online platform told me that there was a high interest in the article.
And he got lots of positive feedback. At an event about innovative gameplay we will
present some audiogames :-)

Best regards,
Sandra



________________________________________________________________
Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From thomas at pininteractive.com  Sat Sep 12 13:42:53 2009
From: thomas at pininteractive.com (thomas at pininteractive.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:42:53 +0200
Subject: [games_access] misunderstanding of game accessibility
In-Reply-To: <909462943@web.de>
References: <909462943@web.de>
Message-ID: <945110F0-64C1-42C0-B299-E085BD1A9AA4@pininteractive.com>

I have begun using universal design or multimodal design
to avoid the different interpretations accessibilty has in various  
contexts, not to mention the stigma it has of limited market  etc
Kind regards,
Thomas

(Sent from my mobile)

On 12 sep 2009, at 18.29, "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> did you also make the experience that the whole
> game accessibility and sometimes part of it are  misunderstood?
>
> I think it is not easy to explain. I hope I can write an
> easy to understand article in the future.
>
> It is hard to explain that it is not only for people with  
> disabilities.
> And "one button start" is also misunderstood.
> Also that game do not need a screen to be a game is misunderstood.
>
> I think the best way is to have an article about it
> and just send the link, otherwise it would always take too much  
> energy :-(
>
>
> I have one positive message :-)
> I wrote an article about audiogames "playing without graphic".
> The owner of the online platform told me that there was a high  
> interest in the article.
> And he got lots of positive feedback. At an event about innovative  
> gameplay we will
> present some audiogames :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
> f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep 16 11:19:15 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:19:15 +0200
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
Message-ID: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>

Hi,
I would like to learn more about [CC].

Counterstrike:
Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source

Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].


My Questions:
Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?


Best regards,
Sandra





From rkimball at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 12:02:49 2009
From: rkimball at gmail.com (Reid Kimball)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:02:49 -0700
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
Message-ID: <a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think CS: Source has CC, it came out before HL2, which was the
first game that I know of to have CC from Valve Software.

The difference as far as I can tell between CC and a sound icon system
is CC uses text and not icons.

Have no confirmation that HL3 (still waiting on HL2 - Episode 3) will
have CC, but Valve appears to be committed to CC and including deaf
players and I think it's a safe bet they will continue to include CC
in future games.

Reid Kimball
Game Designer / Writer
http://game.rbkdesign.com



On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to learn more about [CC].
>
> Counterstrike:
> Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
> Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source
>
> Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].
>
>
> My Questions:
> Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
> What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
> Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep 16 12:44:40 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:44:40 +0200
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>

Hi,

thank you very much Reid for the information.

the future will be interesting:
imagine it would become a rule for eSport games to have [CC].

In Germany I meet people who are very interesting in Game Accessibility.
There are lots of eSport Gamer in the VDVC, the organization that represents
the gamer in Germany.

Do we have a list with [CC] links? That would be great.
Maybe in the new system we could provide link list to the top ten rules?

Best regards,
Sandra

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Reid Kimball
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:03
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
> 
> I don't think CS: Source has CC, it came out before HL2, which was the
> first game that I know of to have CC from Valve Software.
> 
> The difference as far as I can tell between CC and a sound icon system
> is CC uses text and not icons.
> 
> Have no confirmation that HL3 (still waiting on HL2 - Episode 3) will
> have CC, but Valve appears to be committed to CC and including deaf
> players and I think it's a safe bet they will continue to include CC in
> future games.
> 
> Reid Kimball
> Game Designer / Writer
> http://game.rbkdesign.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I would like to learn more about [CC].
> >
> > Counterstrike:
> > Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
> > Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source
> >
> > Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].
> >
> >
> > My Questions:
> > Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
> > What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
> > Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> >
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



From mark at ablegamers.com  Wed Sep 16 13:08:13 2009
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:08:13 -0400
Subject: [games_access] GameGuard Shuts Down Disabled Gamers - Aion and
	other MMO's
Message-ID: <191870b70909161008p225e08fao77603d5406d56000@mail.gmail.com>

All,

Steve wrote a great, well thought out story on Aion, an MMO that will
soon be unleashed on the US, and it's use of GameGuard technology.
>From what we know, the story has been read all the way up to the top
because we got contact from the GameGuard people after the story went
live (but never before, how odd).

I would invite all of you to take a read and enjoy.

http://ablegamers.com/game-news/663-gameguard-shuts-down-disabled-gamers.html

-- 
Mark C. Barlet
Editor-in-Chief
AbleGamers.com


From mark at ablegamers.com  Wed Sep 16 12:54:39 2009
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:54:39 -0400
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
Message-ID: <191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>

Again, I have put together a full FAQ on the subject including the top 10

http://gameaccessibility.org/learn-essential-info-topmenu-69.html

I have also invited anyone on this list to participate in populating
more FAQ's on GA.

So far, only one person has helped. I would love to build out more,
but I am not an expert on all things, like CC, so...

Mark
AbleGamers.com

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> thank you very much Reid for the information.
>
> the future will be interesting:
> imagine it would become a rule for eSport games to have [CC].
>
> In Germany I meet people who are very interesting in Game Accessibility.
> There are lots of eSport Gamer in the VDVC, the organization that represents
> the gamer in Germany.
>
> Do we have a list with [CC] links? That would be great.
> Maybe in the new system we could provide link list to the top ten rules?
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
>> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Reid Kimball
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:03
>> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
>>
>> I don't think CS: Source has CC, it came out before HL2, which was the
>> first game that I know of to have CC from Valve Software.
>>
>> The difference as far as I can tell between CC and a sound icon system
>> is CC uses text and not icons.
>>
>> Have no confirmation that HL3 (still waiting on HL2 - Episode 3) will
>> have CC, but Valve appears to be committed to CC and including deaf
>> players and I think it's a safe bet they will continue to include CC in
>> future games.
>>
>> Reid Kimball
>> Game Designer / Writer
>> http://game.rbkdesign.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I would like to learn more about [CC].
>> >
>> > Counterstrike:
>> > Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
>> > Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source
>> >
>> > Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].
>> >
>> >
>> > My Questions:
>> > Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
>> > What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
>> > Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sandra
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > games_access mailing list
>> > games_access at igda.org
>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>



-- 
Mark C. Barlet
Editor-in-Chief
AbleGamers.com


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep 16 13:35:46 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:35:46 +0200
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>	<001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
	<191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501ca36f4$20375de0$60a619a0$@de>

Hi Mark,

oh I maybe have overlooked the link?
It is the first time I see this.

I will start to help, when I finished all my todos :-)

Thanks for reminding!
Sandra


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Mark Barlet
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:55
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
> 
> Again, I have put together a full FAQ on the subject including the top
> 10
> 
> http://gameaccessibility.org/learn-essential-info-topmenu-69.html
> 
> I have also invited anyone on this list to participate in populating
> more FAQ's on GA.
> 
> So far, only one person has helped. I would love to build out more, but
> I am not an expert on all things, like CC, so...
> 
> Mark
> AbleGamers.com
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > thank you very much Reid for the information.
> >
> > the future will be interesting:
> > imagine it would become a rule for eSport games to have [CC].
> >
> > In Germany I meet people who are very interesting in Game
> Accessibility.
> > There are lots of eSport Gamer in the VDVC, the organization that
> > represents the gamer in Germany.
> >
> > Do we have a list with [CC] links? That would be great.
> > Maybe in the new system we could provide link list to the top ten
> rules?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> >
> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
> >> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Reid Kimball
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:03
> >> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> >> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
> >>
> >> I don't think CS: Source has CC, it came out before HL2, which was
> >> the first game that I know of to have CC from Valve Software.
> >>
> >> The difference as far as I can tell between CC and a sound icon
> >> system is CC uses text and not icons.
> >>
> >> Have no confirmation that HL3 (still waiting on HL2 - Episode 3)
> will
> >> have CC, but Valve appears to be committed to CC and including deaf
> >> players and I think it's a safe bet they will continue to include CC
> >> in future games.
> >>
> >> Reid Kimball
> >> Game Designer / Writer
> >> http://game.rbkdesign.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandra Uhling
> <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> > I would like to learn more about [CC].
> >> >
> >> > Counterstrike:
> >> > Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
> >> > Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source
> >> >
> >> > Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > My Questions:
> >> > Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
> >> > What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
> >> > Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Sandra
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > games_access mailing list
> >> > games_access at igda.org
> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> games_access mailing list
> >> games_access at igda.org
> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Mark C. Barlet
> Editor-in-Chief
> AbleGamers.com
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



From mark at ablegamers.com  Wed Sep 16 13:50:43 2009
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:50:43 -0400
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <001501ca36f4$20375de0$60a619a0$@de>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
	<191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501ca36f4$20375de0$60a619a0$@de>
Message-ID: <191870b70909161050k47d05503j8a2b500c5c4b1e03@mail.gmail.com>

Great,

 We also have the capability of hosting things in other languages to,
so if one looks important to you, and you want to translate it into
German, we can support that.

Mark

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> oh I maybe have overlooked the link?
> It is the first time I see this.
>
> I will start to help, when I finished all my todos :-)
>
> Thanks for reminding!
> Sandra
>
>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
>> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Mark Barlet
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:55
>> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
>>
>> Again, I have put together a full FAQ on the subject including the top
>> 10
>>
>> http://gameaccessibility.org/learn-essential-info-topmenu-69.html
>>
>> I have also invited anyone on this list to participate in populating
>> more FAQ's on GA.
>>
>> So far, only one person has helped. I would love to build out more, but
>> I am not an expert on all things, like CC, so...
>>
>> Mark
>> AbleGamers.com
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > thank you very much Reid for the information.
>> >
>> > the future will be interesting:
>> > imagine it would become a rule for eSport games to have [CC].
>> >
>> > In Germany I meet people who are very interesting in Game
>> Accessibility.
>> > There are lots of eSport Gamer in the VDVC, the organization that
>> > represents the gamer in Germany.
>> >
>> > Do we have a list with [CC] links? That would be great.
>> > Maybe in the new system we could provide link list to the top ten
>> rules?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sandra
>> >
>> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> >> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-
>> >> bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Reid Kimball
>> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. September 2009 18:03
>> >> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> >> Betreff: Re: [games_access] [CC] Questions
>> >>
>> >> I don't think CS: Source has CC, it came out before HL2, which was
>> >> the first game that I know of to have CC from Valve Software.
>> >>
>> >> The difference as far as I can tell between CC and a sound icon
>> >> system is CC uses text and not icons.
>> >>
>> >> Have no confirmation that HL3 (still waiting on HL2 - Episode 3)
>> will
>> >> have CC, but Valve appears to be committed to CC and including deaf
>> >> players and I think it's a safe bet they will continue to include CC
>> >> in future games.
>> >>
>> >> Reid Kimball
>> >> Game Designer / Writer
>> >> http://game.rbkdesign.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandra Uhling
>> <sandra_uhling at web.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> > I would like to learn more about [CC].
>> >> >
>> >> > Counterstrike:
>> >> > Half-Life 1 -> mod: CS 1.6
>> >> > Half-Life 2 -> mod(?): CS:Source
>> >> >
>> >> > Half-Life2 has a very good [CC].
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > My Questions:
>> >> > Does CS:Source also have [CC]?
>> >> > What is the difference to the SoundIcon Sytem?
>> >> > Do we already know more about [CC] in Half live 3?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> > Sandra
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > games_access mailing list
>> >> > games_access at igda.org
>> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> games_access mailing list
>> >> games_access at igda.org
>> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > games_access mailing list
>> > games_access at igda.org
>> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark C. Barlet
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> AbleGamers.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>



-- 
Mark C. Barlet
Editor-in-Chief
AbleGamers.com


From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 02:24:51 2009
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:24:51 +0200
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <191870b70909161050k47d05503j8a2b500c5c4b1e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
	<191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501ca36f4$20375de0$60a619a0$@de>
	<191870b70909161050k47d05503j8a2b500c5c4b1e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b900ac550909162324q1f27bf0n628dab4329a27a23@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I think CS: Source don't have CC because in Steam doesn't appear the
"Captions available" on the right column.

But is strange, because CS: Source use the same engine that use Half life 2
that have it. They have the possibility and didn't use it in that game.

In steam don't have a search of CC games, but you can search in google with
the "site:site:store.steampowered.com":
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&lr=&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ESES252&q=%22Captions+available%22+site:store.steampowered.com&start=0&sa=N

And you will see that all games that use Half life 2 engine have CC, except
CS: Source.
All that games are great games.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090917/11140c06/attachment.htm>

From rkimball at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 09:33:24 2009
From: rkimball at gmail.com (Reid Kimball)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:33:24 -0700
Subject: [games_access] [CC] Questions
In-Reply-To: <b900ac550909162324q1f27bf0n628dab4329a27a23@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01ca36e1$0dd784d0$29868e70$@de>
	<a6673b8d0909160902p29af70a5ldbed6f422e2e57a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401ca36ec$fca9d210$f5fd7630$@de>
	<191870b70909160954o782afde4v28cc6b345f42f132@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501ca36f4$20375de0$60a619a0$@de>
	<191870b70909161050k47d05503j8a2b500c5c4b1e03@mail.gmail.com>
	<b900ac550909162324q1f27bf0n628dab4329a27a23@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6673b8d0909170633s2d5f23dcu782a5399141c6d71@mail.gmail.com>

Javier,

I did not know Valve listed CC info on the steam pages, that's awesome!
Thanks for showing us how to search for that.

Reid Kimball
Game Designer / Writer
http://game.rbkdesign.com


On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Javier Mairena
<javier.mairena at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think CS: Source don't have CC because in Steam doesn't appear the
> "Captions available" on the right column.
>
> But is strange, because CS: Source use the same engine that use Half life 2
> that have it. They have the possibility and didn't use it in that game.
>
> In steam don't have a search of CC games, but you can search in google with
> the "site:site:store.steampowered.com":
> http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&lr=&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ESES252&q=%22Captions+available%22+site:store.steampowered.com&start=0&sa=N
>
> And you will see that all games that use Half life 2 engine have CC, except
> CS: Source.
> All that games are great games.
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090917/d1eb55d0/attachment.htm>

From mark at ablegamers.com  Fri Sep 18 10:43:29 2009
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:43:29 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
Message-ID: <191870b70909180743k400f9192w86f38d992037a961@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

 On Monday AbleGamers published a story related to the anti-botting
software "GameGuard" and we highlighted the fact that AION, a highly
anticipated upcoming MMO had this software all over it. On there (now
closed) beta forums there were a few posts from disabled gamers who
expressed issue with the software disabling their adaptive
technologies.

You can read our story here
http://ablegamers.com/game-news/663-gameguard-shuts-down-disabled-gamers.html

Well late in the evening yesterday the NCSoft NA people announced that
they were going to release the game in the US without GameGuard. They
said, "After analyzing our open beta test results Aion will not
feature GameGuard at launch. We will however continue to pursue ways
to effectively utilize GameGuard within Aion in the future. Right now
we're focused on providing players with the best possible Aion
experience."

While we know that there were debates going on in the halls of NCSoft
for a few weeks now about this issue, I am sure that the press that
this story made was a tipping point in making the decision not to move
forward with GameGuard.

To those that work for NCSoft on the list, THANK YOU.

-- 
Mark C. Barlet
Editor-in-Chief
AbleGamers.com


From hinn at illinois.edu  Fri Sep 18 19:41:37 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:41:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
In-Reply-To: <191870b70909180743k400f9192w86f38d992037a961@mail.gmail.com>
References: <191870b70909180743k400f9192w86f38d992037a961@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090918184137.BYR85028@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Mark,

This is great! I know that you'd been fighting it only to get ABSOLUTELY no response (wow, does that sound familiar everyone??) from the company and to learn that they are going to hold off on this until they can do this right and in a way that does not exclude gamers with disabilities is a HUGE step in accessibility.

Sounds like companies are really starting to listen, especially now that we (the movement for accessibility) have a community/media outlet in AbleGamers.

It may take articles like this to get the attention of companies -- we're learning that more and more. To his absolute credit, Mark had been after them "the polite way" for a long time by asking to speak with people to try and get them to hear out the community. It's nice to know that there's a way to get past PR to get to people at the top of a company's hierarchy. 

When the story came out, there were a lot of "hey, why don't you try talking to them?" from other gamers without disabilities. Well, the trouble is that we (again, as in the accessibility movement) get blocked at PR.

Way to go Mark and Steve (the writer of the story) for helping get this news out in a way that presented the facts AND made change happen BEFORE it hit at least one major market!!

This is exciting stuff!

Michelle
Chair, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG
VP, AbleGamers (note: I was not involved in this story at all)

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:43:29 -0400
>From: Mark Barlet <mark at ablegamers.com>  
>Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hey all,
>
> On Monday AbleGamers published a story related to the anti-botting
>software "GameGuard" and we highlighted the fact that AION, a highly
>anticipated upcoming MMO had this software all over it. On there (now
>closed) beta forums there were a few posts from disabled gamers who
>expressed issue with the software disabling their adaptive
>technologies.
>
>You can read our story here
>http://ablegamers.com/game-news/663-gameguard-shuts-down-disabled-gamers.html
>
>Well late in the evening yesterday the NCSoft NA people announced that
>they were going to release the game in the US without GameGuard. They
>said, "After analyzing our open beta test results Aion will not
>feature GameGuard at launch. We will however continue to pursue ways
>to effectively utilize GameGuard within Aion in the future. Right now
>we're focused on providing players with the best possible Aion
>experience."
>
>While we know that there were debates going on in the halls of NCSoft
>for a few weeks now about this issue, I am sure that the press that
>this story made was a tipping point in making the decision not to move
>forward with GameGuard.
>
>To those that work for NCSoft on the list, THANK YOU.
>
>-- 
>Mark C. Barlet
>Editor-in-Chief
>AbleGamers.com
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From rkimball at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 20:30:38 2009
From: rkimball at gmail.com (Reid Kimball)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:30:38 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
In-Reply-To: <20090918184137.BYR85028@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>
References: <191870b70909180743k400f9192w86f38d992037a961@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090918184137.BYR85028@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <a6673b8d0909181730k35d3cd6x155be4d584a4bb5d@mail.gmail.com>

I'm conflicted because I'm glad this is a victory for disabled gamers
but I'm also with the crowd that didn't like the tone of the article,
making statements that couldn't be backed up factually that GameGuard
discriminates against the disabled and NCSoft is supportive of that
approach.

I believe you tried talking to them politely but I don't know if that
gives you any right to resort to rather caustic tactics that make them
look worse than they already do.

I'm more sensitive to this because I am a game developer, caught
between both worlds so I see both sides. I don't like the idea that
Mark and others are "learning" what works and may mean more tactics
like those "Blizzard doesn't like disabled gamers" t-shirts at GDC. It
may work now, may work next time, but I don't think we'll be making
any friends and partnerships based on mutual respect. This isn't a
recipe for long term success imo.

Reid Kimball
Game Designer / Writer
http://game.rbkdesign.com

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM,  <hinn at illinois.edu> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> This is great! I know that you'd been fighting it only to get ABSOLUTELY no response (wow, does that sound familiar everyone??) from the company and to learn that they are going to hold off on this until they can do this right and in a way that does not exclude gamers with disabilities is a HUGE step in accessibility.
>
> Sounds like companies are really starting to listen, especially now that we (the movement for accessibility) have a community/media outlet in AbleGamers.
>
> It may take articles like this to get the attention of companies -- we're learning that more and more. To his absolute credit, Mark had been after them "the polite way" for a long time by asking to speak with people to try and get them to hear out the community. It's nice to know that there's a way to get past PR to get to people at the top of a company's hierarchy.
>
> When the story came out, there were a lot of "hey, why don't you try talking to them?" from other gamers without disabilities. Well, the trouble is that we (again, as in the accessibility movement) get blocked at PR.
>
> Way to go Mark and Steve (the writer of the story) for helping get this news out in a way that presented the facts AND made change happen BEFORE it hit at least one major market!!
>
> This is exciting stuff!
>
> Michelle
> Chair, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG
> VP, AbleGamers (note: I was not involved in this story at all)
>
> ---- Original message ----
>>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:43:29 -0400
>>From: Mark Barlet <mark at ablegamers.com>
>>Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
>>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>>
>>Hey all,
>>
>> On Monday AbleGamers published a story related to the anti-botting
>>software "GameGuard" and we highlighted the fact that AION, a highly
>>anticipated upcoming MMO had this software all over it. On there (now
>>closed) beta forums there were a few posts from disabled gamers who
>>expressed issue with the software disabling their adaptive
>>technologies.
>>
>>You can read our story here
>>http://ablegamers.com/game-news/663-gameguard-shuts-down-disabled-gamers.html
>>
>>Well late in the evening yesterday the NCSoft NA people announced that
>>they were going to release the game in the US without GameGuard. They
>>said, "After analyzing our open beta test results Aion will not
>>feature GameGuard at launch. We will however continue to pursue ways
>>to effectively utilize GameGuard within Aion in the future. Right now
>>we're focused on providing players with the best possible Aion
>>experience."
>>
>>While we know that there were debates going on in the halls of NCSoft
>>for a few weeks now about this issue, I am sure that the press that
>>this story made was a tipping point in making the decision not to move
>>forward with GameGuard.
>>
>>To those that work for NCSoft on the list, THANK YOU.
>>
>>--
>>Mark C. Barlet
>>Editor-in-Chief
>>AbleGamers.com


From hinn at illinois.edu  Fri Sep 18 22:34:04 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:34:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
In-Reply-To: <a6673b8d0909181730k35d3cd6x155be4d584a4bb5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <191870b70909180743k400f9192w86f38d992037a961@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090918184137.BYR85028@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>
	<a6673b8d0909181730k35d3cd6x155be4d584a4bb5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090918213404.BYR96207@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Most of the statements were not from designers but were from non-disabled gamers. The thing is is that there's a lot behind the scenes that went behind this and the work with Blizzard.

First, the companies were given a copy of the article before it went live after months of Mark trying to reach out to both GameGuard and NCSoft. When the article went live both GameGuard and NCSoft contacted Mark (GameGuard called him from Korea at 2am -- time zone diffs!). NCSoft went so far as to say that while they did not like the fact that the article was out there because they never like bad publicity, that everything in there was true. Now they are working with Mark to make changes so that it doesn't close out the disabled gamer market rather than going forward with something that would definitely close it out. NCSoft even sent 5 copies of the game to give away on the AbleGamers website.

Second, as to Blizzard...that was 18 months of trying to reach out to them Mark had, I think, 2-3 shirts made and there was not a GDC protest (I'm not even sure they were worn) -- it was the result of frustration of not getting anywhere after a year and a half of trying to reach out with absolutely no results. Now? AbleGamers has a really good relationship with Blizzard, changes have been made, etc.

While I was not involved in either of these examples, I have to admire the fact that by protesting, it has resulted in change...but also partnerships. Other companies outside of this have reached out to AbleGamers resulting in real change.

AbleGamers is not the IGDA SIG. So the "we" is the accessibility movement -- I'm assuming you meant the same thing? AbleGamers is also not a group of game development professionals -- it is a group comprising of the voice of the disabled gamer community. So if Mark gets a complaint from a group of gamers with disabilities about a major issue in a game, he acts on it. It's his right to do so -- the SIG does not "own" AbleGamers.

I'm not sure what the "right" way to do things but I have been impressed at how much Mark has been able to do that HAS resulted in long term relationships. I know we have all argued over the years about how to get the attention of the AAA gaming industry but the truth is, we have not been very effective even when we were at our strongest as a group. On the other hand, Mark has been. And it's not just with these two examples...it's been with many companies, many more than just these two companies where a strong cry of protest has been used.

Full disclosure: While I have not been involved in any of these articles, I have been working as part of AbleGamers on other projects. Every IGDA SIG is comprised of members that work for many other companies so that only enriches a SIG, IMHO. It results in arguments and disagreements but at the end of the day, it's a way for people with the same interests to get together and share ideas. You have a right to state your opinion, as does everyone else in the SIG. But what Mark has been doing does not represent the SIG -- it represents AbleGamers and the accessibility movement on a whole.

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:30:38 -0700
>From: Reid Kimball <rkimball at gmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>I'm conflicted because I'm glad this is a victory for disabled gamers
>but I'm also with the crowd that didn't like the tone of the article,
>making statements that couldn't be backed up factually that GameGuard
>discriminates against the disabled and NCSoft is supportive of that
>approach.
>
>I believe you tried talking to them politely but I don't know if that
>gives you any right to resort to rather caustic tactics that make them
>look worse than they already do.
>
>I'm more sensitive to this because I am a game developer, caught
>between both worlds so I see both sides. I don't like the idea that
>Mark and others are "learning" what works and may mean more tactics
>like those "Blizzard doesn't like disabled gamers" t-shirts at GDC. It
>may work now, may work next time, but I don't think we'll be making
>any friends and partnerships based on mutual respect. This isn't a
>recipe for long term success imo.
>
>Reid Kimball
>Game Designer / Writer
>http://game.rbkdesign.com
>
>On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM,  <hinn at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> This is great! I know that you'd been fighting it only to get ABSOLUTELY no response (wow, does that sound familiar everyone??) from the company and to learn that they are going to hold off on this until they can do this right and in a way that does not exclude gamers with disabilities is a HUGE step in accessibility.
>>
>> Sounds like companies are really starting to listen, especially now that we (the movement for accessibility) have a community/media outlet in AbleGamers.
>>
>> It may take articles like this to get the attention of companies -- we're learning that more and more. To his absolute credit, Mark had been after them "the polite way" for a long time by asking to speak with people to try and get them to hear out the community. It's nice to know that there's a way to get past PR to get to people at the top of a company's hierarchy.
>>
>> When the story came out, there were a lot of "hey, why don't you try talking to them?" from other gamers without disabilities. Well, the trouble is that we (again, as in the accessibility movement) get blocked at PR.
>>
>> Way to go Mark and Steve (the writer of the story) for helping get this news out in a way that presented the facts AND made change happen BEFORE it hit at least one major market!!
>>
>> This is exciting stuff!
>>
>> Michelle
>> Chair, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG
>> VP, AbleGamers (note: I was not involved in this story at all)
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:43:29 -0400
>>>From: Mark Barlet <mark at ablegamers.com>
>>>Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
>>>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>>>
>>>Hey all,
>>>
>>> On Monday AbleGamers published a story related to the anti-botting
>>>software "GameGuard" and we highlighted the fact that AION, a highly
>>>anticipated upcoming MMO had this software all over it. On there (now
>>>closed) beta forums there were a few posts from disabled gamers who
>>>expressed issue with the software disabling their adaptive
>>>technologies.
>>>
>>>You can read our story here
>>>http://ablegamers.com/game-news/663-gameguard-shuts-down-disabled-gamers.html
>>>
>>>Well late in the evening yesterday the NCSoft NA people announced that
>>>they were going to release the game in the US without GameGuard. They
>>>said, "After analyzing our open beta test results Aion will not
>>>feature GameGuard at launch. We will however continue to pursue ways
>>>to effectively utilize GameGuard within Aion in the future. Right now
>>>we're focused on providing players with the best possible Aion
>>>experience."
>>>
>>>While we know that there were debates going on in the halls of NCSoft
>>>for a few weeks now about this issue, I am sure that the press that
>>>this story made was a tipping point in making the decision not to move
>>>forward with GameGuard.
>>>
>>>To those that work for NCSoft on the list, THANK YOU.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Mark C. Barlet
>>>Editor-in-Chief
>>>AbleGamers.com
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Sep 21 13:41:12 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:41:12 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
Message-ID: <922231491@web.de>

Hello,

we had also some kind of trouble with exergaming. When we "rate" a game, we need be very careful.
Everyone has difference experience, different exceptions and another point of view.
Also there can be some misunderstandings... 

I learnt that is is always good to mention the background information and the reasons.
Because the article is from ablegamers.com, I think it is clear, that it is from point of view of disabled gamers.

But maybe sometimes it is good to be little bit careful?
I did not understand everything. So I cannot say.

I think personally that it would be great for both sides to add information about developments:
e.g. partnership or comments form the other side, reaction and if there are some changes.
I think that would help both sides.

Best regards,
Sandra 




______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From hinn at illinois.edu  Mon Sep 21 18:51:38 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION
In-Reply-To: <922231491@web.de>
References: <922231491@web.de>
Message-ID: <20090921175138.BYU63233@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Hey Sandra!

Yes, it's a tricky balance. I think that having the disabled gaming community speak out gives our fight for game accessibility more grounding. 

Harmonix (Rockband) is an example of a company that we've had a good relationship with from the start -- they are a very cool company to work with. So, yes, it doesn't always need to be a big article about something that a company is doing that has resulted from months (even years) of trying to tell them what's going on, what is not accessible that used to be. More often than not, the relationships are born from discussions at conferences and such. It's only when there's obviously a run around that an article gets run to say "hello! gamers want to play! you are ignoring us!!"

We do post accessibility feature articles on companies that on their own take the initiative to put something accessible in their games. We do that more often than a strongly worded protest article. (I'm not in charge of the editorial content on the site -- I work elsewhere within the organization). 

Anyway, some times you do have to yell and scream if a company is about to do something that will block out gamers with disabilities, especially when you can't get in touch of the decision makers. But diplomacy is always the first strategy.

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:41:12 +0200
>From: Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Big Win for Disabled Games looking to play AION  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hello,
>
>we had also some kind of trouble with exergaming. When we "rate" a game, we need be very careful.
>Everyone has difference experience, different exceptions and another point of view.
>Also there can be some misunderstandings... 
>
>I learnt that is is always good to mention the background information and the reasons.
>Because the article is from ablegamers.com, I think it is clear, that it is from point of view of disabled gamers.
>
>But maybe sometimes it is good to be little bit careful?
>I did not understand everything. So I cannot say.
>
>I think personally that it would be great for both sides to add information about developments:
>e.g. partnership or comments form the other side, reaction and if there are some changes.
>I think that would help both sides.
>
>Best regards,
>Sandra 
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
>
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From hinn at illinois.edu  Mon Sep 21 22:30:58 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:30:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] Welcome New Members! SIG Meeting!
Message-ID: <20090921213058.BYU84683@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Hi all!

We've had a sudden surge in new member subscriptions over the weekend and I just wanted to say "hello" and encourage them, if they feel comfortable, to introduce themselves. Welcome all new members! :)

I'm trying to find a good time to have an online meeting. Given that we have so many international members, this has always been a trick! But I'm gonna throw out a few times and days of the week and see if we can at least accommodate as many people as possible who are interested.

Use World Clock to help interpret the time for your time zone: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

Here are time/day ideas (note: these aren't specific dates, just days of the week and times that would work better for people). Please feel free to respond off list about this to hinn at uiuc.edu so that we don't have a lot of emails with times and dates!):

Put an "x" next to Days/Times that generally work for you:

Tuesdays
___ 8am/08:00 (US Pacific); 11am/11:00 (US Eastern); 4pm/16:00 (London)
___ 9am/09:00 (US Pacific); 12noon/12:00 (US Eastern); 5pm/17:00 (London)
___ 10am/10:00 (US Pacific); 1pm/13:00 (US Eastern); 6pm/18:00 (London)
___ 11am/11:00 (US Pacific); 2pm/14:00 (US Eastern); 7pm/19:00 (London)
___ 12noon/12:00 (US Pacific); 3pm/15:00 (US Eastern); 8pm/20:00 (London)

Wednesdays
___ 8am/08:00 (US Pacific); 11am/11:00 (US Eastern); 4pm/16:00 (London)
___ 9am/09:00 (US Pacific); 12noon/12:00 (US Eastern); 5pm/17:00 (London)
___ 10am/10:00 (US Pacific); 1pm/13:00 (US Eastern); 6pm/18:00 (London)
___ 11am/11:00 (US Pacific); 2pm/14:00 (US Eastern); 7pm/19:00 (London)
___ 12noon/12:00 (US Pacific); 3pm/15:00 (US Eastern); 8pm/20:00 (London)

Thursdays
___ 8am/08:00 (US Pacific); 11am/11:00 (US Eastern); 4pm/16:00 (London)
___ 9am/09:00 (US Pacific); 12noon/12:00 (US Eastern); 5pm/17:00 (London)
___ 10am/10:00 (US Pacific); 1pm/13:00 (US Eastern); 6pm/18:00 (London)
___ 11am/11:00 (US Pacific); 2pm/14:00 (US Eastern); 7pm/19:00 (London)
___ 12noon/12:00 (US Pacific); 3pm/15:00 (US Eastern); 8pm/20:00 (London)

Items up on the agenda include (Note: the meeting will take an hour max and hopefully we can return to having meeting regularly again):

- IGDA Questions and Answers -- many of you, I know, were upset over some of the recent bad press and I want to help answer questions and/or get new questions to the board for answers

- A fall project now that everyone is back from holiday, etc. I'd like us to work on a database of game accessibility resources online with descriptions (and if they are still active -- this might take a few emails and such to find out). But I'm open to other ideas. I think that by tackling a small and defined project like this that we can then move to a more ambitious project for the spring. A database (or just a list broken down by disability type or types of games, controllers etc) would help. It would be an alphabetical list and not, say, a top 10 or 20 list -- it's just more of a "state of game accessibility groups in the world" list.

- A chance to mingle for an hour with others in a "live" setting.

- A chance to help reshape the SIG. Like other SIGs, this SIG is comprised of members who work in other accessibility companies/groups/etc and I think that there's no reason why we can't return to being a group that has representatives from other groups (kind of a UN of Game Accessibility) so that we can all learn from and support one another.

BTW, the meetings have traditionally happened on MSN (add me vrgrrl at hotmail.com -- the hotmail account is entirely spam so don't send messages there! Sorry if that's confusing!)

Hope to get a lot of responses -- again email me at hinn at uiuc.edu with times that work for you and your MSN Live/Messenger account. Then add my MSN account (vrgrrl at hotmail.com) to your own Messenger account name so that I know who you are so I can find you once we have a meeting time set up. I'll remind everyone of this when I send out a date and time for the meeting!

Thanks everyone!
Michelle
Chair, IGDA Game Accessibility SIG
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Mon Sep 21 21:41:12 2009
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:41:12 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Introduction - Sheri Rubin
Message-ID: <4AB82B38.2040403@designdirectdeliver.com>

Hello Game Accessibility SIG Members,

My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting and consulting 
business called Design, Direct, Deliver. You can find out more about my 
company and me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php.

IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG (I'm the Chair and 
Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG (Founder), Women In Game Development 
SIG (Advisory Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG, Casual Games SIG, 
Education SIG, Flash SIG, Game Accessibility SIG (now!), Human Resources 
SIG, Game Design SIG, Online Games SIG, Production SIG, Quality of Life 
SIG, Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG.

I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee and the Voter 
Guidance Task Force and I'm getting involved with the local Orange 
County Chapter for the IGDA.

I'm excited to be here and learn more about the accessibility needs of 
gamers and developers and how game accessibility can affect the industry 
as a whole.

Thanks!
Sheri

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO/President

*Design, Direct, Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090921/363b1fb8/attachment.htm>

From hinn at illinois.edu  Tue Sep 22 02:48:57 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:48:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] Introduction - Sheri Rubin
In-Reply-To: <4AB82B38.2040403@designdirectdeliver.com>
References: <4AB82B38.2040403@designdirectdeliver.com>
Message-ID: <20090922014857.BYV09726@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Welcome, Sheri!

A few of us are SIG cross members -- I'm in Loc, Women in Games (Also an advisory board member), Sexuality, Indie (although we're rebooting!), Writers and then I chair this SIG. One of these days I'm going to get on one of the IGDA Committees -- trying to help get Diversity back off the ground but we're not getting very far. Maybe you can help put in a good word that there are people interested but we can't get anyone's ear? I think only a board member has to sponsor a committee but maybe that's something we can discuss off list! :)

I'm also Vice President of the AbleGamers Foundation (the non-profit wing of AbleGamers.com) and do independent design consulting. I'm also an academic so I'm all over the place as well! You'll find that our SIG has quite a variety of people representing all sorts of groups and research labs. So I hope you'll feel welcome here.

Please let us know if there are any issues in particular you'd like to learn about. We're a pretty casual group so fire away with questions. I/we can also send you papers, etc off list (because the list freaks out whenever when try to post anything). Like everyone in the IGDA and every SIG...we've been waiting for the new technology to get on board for either 3 or 4 years now (it's been so long, I forget!). So our work is spread all over the place. That's why I thought of the directory project that would help people find all of our groups and other groups.

Again, welcome!
Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:41:12 -0700
>From: Sheri Rubin <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>  
>Subject: [games_access] Introduction - Sheri Rubin  
>To: games_access at igda.org
>
>   Hello Game Accessibility SIG Members,
>
>   My name is Sheri Rubin and I run my own contracting
>   and consulting business called Design, Direct,
>   Deliver. You can find out more about my company and
>   me here: www.designdirectdeliver.com/about.php.
>
>   IGDA wise I'm on many SIGs: Quality Assurance SIG
>   (I'm the Chair and Founder), Sexuality In Games SIG
>   (Founder), Women In Game Development SIG (Advisory
>   Board), Alternate Reality Games SIG, Casual Games
>   SIG, Education SIG, Flash SIG, Game Accessibility
>   SIG (now!), Human Resources SIG, Game Design SIG,
>   Online Games SIG, Production SIG, Quality of Life
>   SIG, Programmers SIG, and Writing SIG.
>
>   I'm also on the Programs and Memberships Committee
>   and the Voter Guidance Task Force and I'm getting
>   involved with the local Orange County Chapter for
>   the IGDA.
>
>   I'm excited to be here and learn more about the
>   accessibility needs of gamers and developers and how
>   game accessibility can affect the industry as a
>   whole.
>
>   Thanks!
>   Sheri
>   --
>   Sheri Rubin
>   CEO/President
>
>   Design, Direct, Deliver
>   Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
>   Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com
>________________
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Sep 22 05:14:41 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:14:41 +0200
Subject: [games_access] SIG Meeting! skype?
Message-ID: <922996983@web.de>

Hello all,

I think "database of game accessibility resources online with descriptions" is a very good start!
That would give everyone a great overview about resources. And maybe we can find new members :-)

One question about the "meeting-system":
What do you think about skype?

Best regards,
Sandra



________________________________________________________________
Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Sep 22 16:20:26 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:20:26 +0200
Subject: [games_access] WG: [games-for-health] NCTI Conference Passalong
Message-ID: <002101ca3bc2$1f93e200$5ebba600$@de>

Hi,

I got this today. I thought this maybe interesting for you.

@Michelle: I do not understand of which "group" he is talking about.

Best regards,
Sandra

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ben 
> Hello Everyone,

For those of you who NEED (and this is pretty much EVERYONE) to improve the
accessibility of your games and projects I want to highlight this conference
below.  It's a great group and they're working with us to do more work to
make games/serious games more accessible.  Mark Barlet from Ablegamers I
believe is presenting and I know there are others here who have or are
playing a role this year.

The passalong email is below:

> Friends don't let friends pay full conference registration rates!
> Register for NCTI's 2009 Technology Innovators Conference before 
> October
> 1 and save $60!
>
> The 2009 National Center for Technology Innovation's (NCTI) Technology 
> Innovators Conference, Educational Futures - Powered by Technology, 
> will focus on how learning and assistive technologies can supercharge 
> education for all students, including those with disabilities.
>
> With "must-attend" keynote speeches, engaging panel discussions, 
> powerful presentations, and the extraordinary opportunity to network 
> with fellow leaders and innovators representing exciting programs 
> across the country...this is YOUR conference!


> Register now at
> www.NationalTechCenter.org.
>

> Over 200 nationally recognized leaders from academia, corporations,
> government and the media will examine the big ideas that have  
> emerged to
> strengthen teaching and learning through the effective use of
> technology. The presentations will focus on best and emerging  
> practices
> to ensure that all students, particularly struggling learners, fulfill
> their academic and social potential. View the conference agenda at
> www.NationalTechCenter.org.






From mark at ablegamers.com  Tue Sep 22 16:29:44 2009
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:29:44 -0400
Subject: [games_access] WG: [games-for-health] NCTI Conference Passalong
In-Reply-To: <002101ca3bc2$1f93e200$5ebba600$@de>
References: <002101ca3bc2$1f93e200$5ebba600$@de>
Message-ID: <191870b70909221329n6a7c715av989862c212991960@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I am on a panel discussion and AbleGamers has put in a few
proposals for the tech expo.

If anyone is looking for more details let me know, and I can see what I find.

Mark Barlet
AbleGamers Foundation

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I got this today. I thought this maybe interesting for you.
>
> @Michelle: I do not understand of which "group" he is talking about.
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Ben
>> Hello Everyone,
>
> For those of you who NEED (and this is pretty much EVERYONE) to improve the
> accessibility of your games and projects I want to highlight this conference
> below. ?It's a great group and they're working with us to do more work to
> make games/serious games more accessible. ?Mark Barlet from Ablegamers I
> believe is presenting and I know there are others here who have or are
> playing a role this year.
>
> The passalong email is below:
>
>> Friends don't let friends pay full conference registration rates!
>> Register for NCTI's 2009 Technology Innovators Conference before
>> October
>> 1 and save $60!
>>
>> The 2009 National Center for Technology Innovation's (NCTI) Technology
>> Innovators Conference, Educational Futures - Powered by Technology,
>> will focus on how learning and assistive technologies can supercharge
>> education for all students, including those with disabilities.
>>
>> With "must-attend" keynote speeches, engaging panel discussions,
>> powerful presentations, and the extraordinary opportunity to network
>> with fellow leaders and innovators representing exciting programs
>> across the country...this is YOUR conference!
>
>
>> Register now at
>> www.NationalTechCenter.org.
>>
>
>> Over 200 nationally recognized leaders from academia, corporations,
>> government and the media will examine the big ideas that have
>> emerged to
>> strengthen teaching and learning through the effective use of
>> technology. The presentations will focus on best and emerging
>> practices
>> to ensure that all students, particularly struggling learners, fulfill
>> their academic and social potential. View the conference agenda at
>> www.NationalTechCenter.org.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>



-- 
Mark C. Barlet
Editor-in-Chief
AbleGamers.com


From hinn at illinois.edu  Tue Sep 22 17:38:04 2009
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:38:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [games_access] SIG Meeting! skype?
In-Reply-To: <922996983@web.de>
References: <922996983@web.de>
Message-ID: <20090922163804.BYW13178@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

We have tried Skype before -- the trouble is that for anyone with a hearing disability and/or trouble with speech or speaking in another language, the voice stuff doesn't help.

I'm open to using something other than MSN -- you can save conversations in Skype, correct? I mean text conversations? I'm thinking that we'll need to just reply on the text chat until we know more about how accessible things are on that platform.

Don't forget, everyone, to send me your schedules. Right now it looks like we have a couple days that work for everyone so far so that's a good start!

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:14:41 +0200
>From: Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>  
>Subject: [games_access] SIG Meeting! skype?  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hello all,
>
>I think "database of game accessibility resources online with descriptions" is a very good start!
>That would give everyone a great overview about resources. And maybe we can find new members :-)
>
>One question about the "meeting-system":
>What do you think about skype?
>
>Best regards,
>Sandra
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
>f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep 23 05:56:11 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:56:11 +0200
Subject: [games_access] FYI EIGA AWARD: new deadline, prototype award
Message-ID: <001301ca3c34$14d6ae20$3e840a60$@de>

Hello,

FYI:
The deadline was moved to 2. October 
and it is possible to send in also prototypes.

I am sorry that I got this information so late.
I do not know the details about the prototype awards.

It is possible to send in also 10 copies of a demo video.
Instead of the games.

Best regards,
Sandra



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sun Sep 27 14:04:36 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:04:36 +0200
Subject: [games_access] some thought about [CC]
Message-ID: <001a01ca3f9c$f9b4e370$ed1eaa50$@de>

Hello,

I played "Portal" from Valve by a friend.
Now I understand the difference between [CC] from Valve and Symbols.

Portal:
Can it be that the timing is not good?
Sometimes the information are too soon or a little bit late.
But maybe this is because it is not easy to play the game
and watch the [CC] information at the same time?

Battlefield:
My friend said that Battlefield has also some kind of [CC]
The screen becomes red at the side, where a shot was.


It would be great to have a combination of [CC] from Valve and Symbols.
@Karen did you make a suggestion to Valve?

@Mark
Do you know what deaf gamer would like to have?

Best regards,
Sandra






From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 16:10:08 2009
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:10:08 +0200
Subject: [games_access] some thought about [CC]
In-Reply-To: <001a01ca3f9c$f9b4e370$ed1eaa50$@de>
References: <001a01ca3f9c$f9b4e370$ed1eaa50$@de>
Message-ID: <b900ac550909271310p7a012e6cwd38a126effe6b802@mail.gmail.com>

About the screen red at the side you recieve a shot is typical in most of
actual first person shooters. It usefull for all people to know where you
have hurt from. Only with the audio is very hard to know and is very
important and realistic to know that.

2009/9/27 Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>

> Hello,
>
> I played "Portal" from Valve by a friend.
> Now I understand the difference between [CC] from Valve and Symbols.
>
> Portal:
> Can it be that the timing is not good?
> Sometimes the information are too soon or a little bit late.
> But maybe this is because it is not easy to play the game
> and watch the [CC] information at the same time?
>
> Battlefield:
> My friend said that Battlefield has also some kind of [CC]
> The screen becomes red at the side, where a shot was.
>
>
> It would be great to have a combination of [CC] from Valve and Symbols.
> @Karen did you make a suggestion to Valve?
>
> @Mark
> Do you know what deaf gamer would like to have?
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20090927/654e0f9f/attachment.htm>

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Sep 30 13:12:59 2009
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:12:59 +0200
Subject: [games_access] chat today?
Message-ID: <008201ca41f1$43b29020$cb17b060$@de>

Hi,

is there a chat today?

Best regards,
Sandra