From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 18:37:08 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:37:08 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Kokoromi: Gamma IV - 154 one-button games submitted
Message-ID: <4035D2E1EC1B4F35894A145862789619@OneSwitchPC>

Amazingly high-turnout for submitted games to the Kokoromi Gamma IV compo. 154 new one-button games await public release:

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=10837.0

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk
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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 02:37:40 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:37:40 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Kokoromi: Gamma IV - 154 one-button games
	submitted
In-Reply-To: <4035D2E1EC1B4F35894A145862789619@OneSwitchPC>
References: <4035D2E1EC1B4F35894A145862789619@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002012337w5d5725c2wc6085f3dcfe04a7b@mail.gmail.com>

Great!!
154!!

your web will grow a lot, Barrie  xD

2010/2/2 Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at googlemail.com>

>  Amazingly high-turnout for submitted games to the Kokoromi Gamma IV
> compo. 154 new one-button games await public release:
>
> http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=10837.0
>
> Barrie
> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:56:01 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:56:01 +0100
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
Message-ID: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

I have included in my spanish blog an automatic translation to 5 languages
using google translator.
I think it works really good to english, to is spanish not very well...
hehehe, i think spanish is a language very hard.

In my blog I repeat a lot of news that are already in other english blogs,
but sometimes I write own articles. Is easy for me to have a direct link to
share with you. And maybe someone wants to follow my blog in your language,
but I repeat a lot of news are already in others blogs (I put the source
always).

uhmmm, sorry for RSS.... is there a way to publish automatic RSS in other
languages??

You can see the flags to translate at the top-right of the web:
www.videojuegosaccesibles.es
And in all of articles.

But i let you here the direct links to the main page:

   - *English*:
   http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es%7Cen&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
   - *Portugu?s*:
   http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es|pt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es%7Cpt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
   - *Fran?ais*:
   http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es|fr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es%7Cfr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
   - *Deutsch*:
   http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es|de&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es%7Cde&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
   - *Italiano*:
   http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es|it&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es%7Cit&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>

Greetings!
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From hinn at uiuc.edu  Thu Feb  4 10:31:50 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:31:50 -0600
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EF51BBB-D859-4B2A-A8CA-ECA59BB7684F@uiuc.edu>

That's great, Javier!!

I think the most difficult would be the translations to English,  
Portuguese, and German would be the roughest due to the differences  
in the designs of those languages. Interesting that Spanish to  
English works ok but not the other way around!

I love your blog -- it's a great resource!! And I wouldn't worry  
about repeating news since you are citing the sources -- better that  
we have a nice go-between to translate information in your site than  
not to have one at all!

I'll leave the RSS questions to some of our blog experts like Barrie  
-- I'm afraid I don't know myself! :)

Michelle

On Feb 4, 2010, at 4:56 AM, Javier wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> I have included in my spanish blog an automatic translation to 5  
> languages using google translator.
> I think it works really good to english, to is spanish not very  
> well... hehehe, i think spanish is a language very hard.
>
> In my blog I repeat a lot of news that are already in other english  
> blogs, but sometimes I write own articles. Is easy for me to have a  
> direct link to share with you. And maybe someone wants to follow my  
> blog in your language, but I repeat a lot of news are already in  
> others blogs (I put the source always).
>
> uhmmm, sorry for RSS.... is there a way to publish automatic RSS in  
> other languages??
>
> You can see the flags to translate at the top-right of the web:  
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es
> And in all of articles.
>
> But i let you here the direct links to the main page:
> English: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> Portugu?s: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es|pt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> Fran?ais: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es|fr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> Deutsch: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es|de&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> Italiano: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es|it&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> Greetings!
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From mark at ablegamers.com  Thu Feb  4 10:51:37 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:51:37 -0500
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191870b71002040751h5d71eederb5f6b844ce5857c4@mail.gmail.com>

I added your blog in spanish here http://gameaccessibility.org/news.html but
I will see what I can do about getting an English RSS up there as well.

As a heads up, If anyone has a blog that they want added to the page and it
is about GA or rehab gaming, and it has an RSS feed let me know and I will
get it up there. It pulls from all the blogs about every 30 mins. so it is a
good central hub of news.

Mark

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Javier <javier.mairena at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> I have included in my spanish blog an automatic translation to 5 languages
> using google translator.
> I think it works really good to english, to is spanish not very well...
> hehehe, i think spanish is a language very hard.
>
> In my blog I repeat a lot of news that are already in other english blogs,
> but sometimes I write own articles. Is easy for me to have a direct link to
> share with you. And maybe someone wants to follow my blog in your language,
> but I repeat a lot of news are already in others blogs (I put the source
> always).
>
> uhmmm, sorry for RSS.... is there a way to publish automatic RSS in other
> languages??
>
> You can see the flags to translate at the top-right of the web:
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es
> And in all of articles.
>
> But i let you here the direct links to the main page:
>
>    - *English*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es%7Cen&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Portugu?s*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es|pt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es%7Cpt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Fran?ais*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es|fr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es%7Cfr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Deutsch*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es|de&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es%7Cde&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Italiano*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es|it&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es%7Cit&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>
> Greetings!
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>


-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for
greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:42:56 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:42:56 -0000
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F65ADC6028E1426492162EEB0CEF485D@OneSwitchPC>

It's great that you've added language translation, Javier. I'm not mad keen on the flag for English but that's probably a sensitive-cultural thing (me being English). Good work anyway on making a mighty-fine blog more accessible to your readers.

Barrie





From: Javier
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:56 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages


Hi all!

I have included in my spanish blog an automatic translation to 5 languages using google translator.
I think it works really good to english, to is spanish not very well... hehehe, i think spanish is a language very hard.

In my blog I repeat a lot of news that are already in other english blogs, but sometimes I write own articles. Is easy for me to have a direct link to share with you. And maybe someone wants to follow my blog in your language, but I repeat a lot of news are already in others blogs (I put the source always).

uhmmm, sorry for RSS.... is there a way to publish automatic RSS in other languages??

You can see the flags to translate at the top-right of the web: www.videojuegosaccesibles.es
And in all of articles.

But i let you here the direct links to the main page:

  a.. English: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 
  b.. Portugu?s: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es|pt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 
  c.. Fran?ais: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es|fr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 
  d.. Deutsch: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es|de&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 
  e.. Italiano: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es|it&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 
Greetings!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:56:00 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:56:00 +0100
Subject: [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
In-Reply-To: <F65ADC6028E1426492162EEB0CEF485D@OneSwitchPC>
References: <b900ac551002040256m74b591aeicb74c8ad5d3c1dac@mail.gmail.com>
	<F65ADC6028E1426492162EEB0CEF485D@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002041056j187ec9bcpa64256a01b8c3bf8@mail.gmail.com>

uhmmm, i didnt know that English people dont like that flag...
Now, thinking... I think the flag have to be only UK flag in the same way
Spanish flag is only Spain's flag, and we not make a mix of all country
flags with Spanish language flag.

In fact there are more countries, like new zealand, that speak english and
we not include it in the english language flag....

Interesting... hehe
sorry for big off-topic !!   xD


2010/2/4 Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at googlemail.com>

>  It's great that you've added language translation, Javier. I'm not mad
> keen on the flag for English but that's probably a sensitive-cultural thing
> (me being English). Good work anyway on making a mighty-fine blog more
> accessible to your readers.
>
> Barrie
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* Javier <javier.mairena at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:56 AM
> *To:* IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> *Subject:* [games_access] My spanish blog to 5 languages
>
> Hi all!
>
> I have included in my spanish blog an automatic translation to 5 languages
> using google translator.
> I think it works really good to english, to is spanish not very well...
> hehehe, i think spanish is a language very hard.
>
> In my blog I repeat a lot of news that are already in other english blogs,
> but sometimes I write own articles. Is easy for me to have a direct link to
> share with you. And maybe someone wants to follow my blog in your language,
> but I repeat a lot of news are already in others blogs (I put the source
> always).
>
> uhmmm, sorry for RSS.... is there a way to publish automatic RSS in other
> languages??
>
> You can see the flags to translate at the top-right of the web:
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es
> And in all of articles.
>
> But i let you here the direct links to the main page:
>
>    - *English*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=en&langpair=es%7Cen&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Portugu?s*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es|pt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=pt&langpair=es%7Cpt&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Fran?ais*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es|fr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=fr&langpair=es%7Cfr&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Deutsch*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es|de&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=de&langpair=es%7Cde&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>    - *Italiano*:
>    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es|it&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/&hl=it&langpair=es%7Cit&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
>
> Greetings!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:10:45 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:10:45 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Eight pawn, chess on-line without seeing
Message-ID: <b900ac551002060110i1349354cieb7e46060e11e521@mail.gmail.com>

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/peon-ocho-ajedrez-on-line-sin-necesidad.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8

;)
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:23:30 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:23:30 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...
Message-ID: <65970993E920405CBF883BDEBEC28C93@OneSwitchPC>

Last couple of days to enter the Nanogames accessible games competition:

http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2010/02/last-couple-of-days-to-win-nanogames.html

20 highly tweak-able accessible games for PC, Mac or Linux. 20 licences to give away.

Good luck!

Barrie


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From hinn at illinois.edu  Mon Feb  8 04:53:09 2010
From: hinn at illinois.edu (hinn at illinois.edu)
Date: Mon,  8 Feb 2010 03:53:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...
In-Reply-To: <65970993E920405CBF883BDEBEC28C93@OneSwitchPC>
References: <65970993E920405CBF883BDEBEC28C93@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <20100208035309.CEW61988@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Fun idea Barrie!!! Here's a thought -- for those who enter and win who do not need/use a title or so, why not give it as a gift to another friend with a disability who might love to have it!

Just trying to encourage that gift giving spirit John reminded us of around the holidays! We often forget to give things other times of the year!

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:23:30 -0000
>From: Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at googlemail.com>  
>Subject: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...  
>To: <games_access at igda.org>
>
>   Last couple of days to enter the Nanogames
>   accessible games competition:
>    
>   http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2010/02/last-couple-of-days-to-win-nanogames.html
>    
>   20 highly tweak-able accessible games for PC, Mac or
>   Linux. 20 licences to give away.
>    
>   Good luck!
>    
>   Barrie
>    
>    
>    
>________________
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:17:35 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:17:35 +0100
Subject: [games_access] VisionPlay
Message-ID: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es%7Cen&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:20:02 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:20:02 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...
In-Reply-To: <20100208035309.CEW61988@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>
References: <65970993E920405CBF883BDEBEC28C93@OneSwitchPC>
	<20100208035309.CEW61988@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <63980543CF614175B275470A598EECD9@OneSwitchPC>

Absolutely, Michelle! It's open to all! Not long now though...

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: <hinn at illinois.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:53 AM
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...

> Fun idea Barrie!!! Here's a thought -- for those who enter and win who do 
> not need/use a title or so, why not give it as a gift to another friend 
> with a disability who might love to have it!
>
> Just trying to encourage that gift giving spirit John reminded us of 
> around the holidays! We often forget to give things other times of the 
> year!
>
> Michelle
>
> ---- Original message ----
>>Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:23:30 -0000
>>From: Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at googlemail.com>
>>Subject: [games_access] Last chance to win 20 accessible games...
>>To: <games_access at igda.org>
>>
>>   Last couple of days to enter the Nanogames
>>   accessible games competition:
>>
>> 
>> http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2010/02/last-couple-of-days-to-win-nanogames.html
>>
>>   20 highly tweak-able accessible games for PC, Mac or
>>   Linux. 20 licences to give away.
>>
>>   Good luck!
>>
>>   Barrie
>>
>>
>>
>>________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>games_access mailing list
>>games_access at igda.org
>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> .......................................
> these are mediocre times and people are
> losing hope. it's hard for many people
> to believe that there are extraordinary
> things inside themselves, as well as
> others. i hope you can keep an open
> mind.
> -- "unbreakable"
> .......................................
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 



From hinn at uiuc.edu  Mon Feb  8 12:40:00 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:40:00 -0600
Subject: [games_access] VisionPlay
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>

Cool Javier!

BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article title  
and maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to" and then  
the link? That would help people who are just scanning through but  
not sure if it's a link related to what they are interested in.

That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the list  
from your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated articles. :)

Michelle

On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:

> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos- 
> en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From mark at ablegamers.com  Mon Feb  8 13:17:04 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:17:04 -0500
Subject: [games_access] VisionPlay
In-Reply-To: <5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I did not know we could do that. I was told not to post stories from
AbleGamers unless it was something especially note worthy, and even then I
have been chided. I guess this is a change in list policy. Keep up the great
work Javier.

Great to know.

Mark

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:40 PM, D. Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> Cool Javier!
>
> BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article title and
> maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to" and then the link?
> That would help people who are just scanning through but not sure if it's a
> link related to what they are interested in.
>
> That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the list from
> your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated articles. :)
>
> Michelle
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:
>
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8<http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es%7Cen&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>


-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for
greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:18:36 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:18:36 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Posting
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com><5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEFBECF4F75D48E8AB022CB956D5A125@OneSwitchPC>

I think posts that are well-meaning, good-mannered and either promote good new stuff, progress, ideas, or ask genuine questions have and will always be welcome on this list. Obviously no one wants to get bombarded by too many similar posts, nor any snide comments. I think we've managed to keep this a friendly and useful list across the years, in no small part thanks to Michelle overseeing this community. It's a really good resource. Long may it continue.

Barrie









From: Mark Barlet 
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:17 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [games_access] VisionPlay


Oh, I did not know we could do that. I was told not to post stories from AbleGamers unless it was something especially note worthy, and even then I have been chided. I guess this is a change in list policy. Keep up the great work Javier.

Great to know.

Mark


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:40 PM, D. Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

  Cool Javier! 


  BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article title and maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to" and then the link? That would help people who are just scanning through but not sure if it's a link related to what they are interested in.


  That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the list from your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated articles. :)


  Michelle


  On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:


    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8

    _______________________________________________
    games_access mailing list
    games_access at igda.org
    http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access





-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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From hinn at uiuc.edu  Mon Feb  8 14:27:23 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:27:23 -0600
Subject: [games_access] Posting to the List -- Opinions Sought [was
	visionplay]
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5351F69A-7AFE-474A-BA80-A5FEA92B28A2@uiuc.edu>

I guess then we'd have to take a poll on that -- there hasn't been an  
official list policy, just the preference of members. I certainly  
don't mind and have said that before.

I think what people object to the most is twitter-like posts of just  
links. But I don't see why articles reporting on accessibility  
stories can't be posted with summaries and then the link to the  
larger article. Seems like that would be a service to list members to  
see the variety of content out there.

Anyone have any disagreements with that? Let's have an open  
discussion on it, pro/con, and let the list decide.

Mark -- you are certainly welcome to do a post with the above idea  
(title, summary, link) as an example so that list members could see  
an example.

Michelle

On Feb 8, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Mark Barlet wrote:

> Oh, I did not know we could do that. I was told not to post stories  
> from AbleGamers unless it was something especially note worthy, and  
> even then I have been chided. I guess this is a change in list  
> policy. Keep up the great work Javier.
>
> Great to know.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:40 PM, D. Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu>  
> wrote:
> Cool Javier!
>
> BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article  
> title and maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to"  
> and then the link? That would help people who are just scanning  
> through but not sure if it's a link related to what they are  
> interested in.
>
> That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the  
> list from your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated  
> articles. :)
>
> Michelle
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:
>
>> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
>> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos- 
>> en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that  
> advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment  
> space.
> Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From mark at ablegamers.com  Mon Feb  8 16:57:04 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:57:04 -0500
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
Message-ID: <191870b71002081357j4a67ace9u669027f9ba0d12fb@mail.gmail.com>

All,

 IGDA members should have just got an email about the new Feb issue of
Prospective Newsletter. Looks great, (gets bigger every month). Anyway
AbleGamers Accessibility Game of the Year award has a great 2 page story on
the topic of the award and Dragon Age's accessibility plus.  It is great to
see game accessibility in the newsletter of IGDA. I am very proud.

Here is a link to the feb Newsletter...

http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf

Mark C. Barlet
AbleGamers Foundation Inc.


-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for
greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
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From richard at audiogames.net  Mon Feb  8 18:17:27 2010
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:17:27 +0100
Subject: [games_access] VisionPlay
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com><5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C534397F76F241DA8938A139DA39F6A5@Delletje>

Ditto Barrie, and in particular the snide comments part. C'est le ton qui fait la musique.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Barlet 
  To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
  Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 7:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [games_access] VisionPlay


  Oh, I did not know we could do that. I was told not to post stories from AbleGamers unless it was something especially note worthy, and even then I have been chided. I guess this is a change in list policy. Keep up the great work Javier.

  Great to know.

  Mark


  On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:40 PM, D. Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

    Cool Javier!


    BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article title and maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to" and then the link? That would help people who are just scanning through but not sure if it's a link related to what they are interested in.


    That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the list from your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated articles. :)


    Michelle


    On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:


      http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos-en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8

      _______________________________________________
      games_access mailing list
      games_access at igda.org
      http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



    _______________________________________________
    games_access mailing list
    games_access at igda.org
    http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access





  -- 

  The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
  Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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From hinn at uiuc.edu  Mon Feb  8 20:32:22 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [games_access] Posting
In-Reply-To: <EEFBECF4F75D48E8AB022CB956D5A125@OneSwitchPC>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com><5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEFBECF4F75D48E8AB022CB956D5A125@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <40106546-659B-4A5C-BCF1-1CC7DA9EC531@uiuc.edu>

Thanks Barrie! Yeah, I like being able to get news even if it's a  
short piece someone wants to share that points to more information. I  
think as long as it's presented with some context (like a title  
summary and then, say, the first paragraph as long as that's  
informative (if not, then a longer summary of the post would be  
welcomed) and then the link for members of the list to go to in order  
to read more then this is something I'd like us to see more of. I  
don't want this to be a list where anyone feels like they cannot post  
news.

As Barrie said, as long as things are presented with consideration of  
list members and that comments are also presented with consideration  
then there's really no "you can post this/you can't post that" hard  
and fast rule. I'd like to see much more news on the list -- the more  
the better! The only thing that I ask is that we all try to remember  
to post more than just a link so that people have a chance to filter  
through posts that they aren't interested in (ie, one person may only  
be interested in articles related to autism and so they would  
appreciate having the context, especially if they are short on time  
with their email).

So, yeah, I'm for more posting of news and such -- it's the catalyst  
for good list conversation as well! I think that in past years it's  
been when comments have gotten "personal" rather than staying in the  
realm of fair debate that people have gotten scared and in the spirit  
of regaining the peace, rules that were not really "rules" have been  
created or made to seem that way. I often don't hear about comments  
people make about appropriate content offlist and when I do sometimes  
I only hear about it when people have gotten to the boiling point and  
it's too late to figure out how the argument even started.

I'm sorry that you were made to feel that your posts were not  
welcome, Mark, but I'm glad you mentioned it on the list so it could  
be discussed. Owners of news sites such as AbleGamers and GameFWD  
should feel free to post new article information and links to the  
full text on their own sites. And so should everyone with news  
related to game accessibility -- Javier's posting of news on his blog  
is just as valid as it was a post about something new. As I mentioned  
already, we should just make sure that we give all subscribers a  
little background information.

It's no big deal if we occasionally forget -- and no censorship was  
intended when I encouraged the additional information earlier today.  
We all want to know more, after all, and sometimes people are also  
worried about links to viruses so if they have the reasonable  
expectation that the link is safe with the extra information about  
what the link is to then it encourages more comfort by all. :) So  
from time to time we should remind each other if we forget to include  
context but all that takes is a polite email to let a new subscriber  
know about how to best post something or remind an old subscriber if  
they have been forgetting.

In the future, if anyone ever is told that their posts are not  
welcome on the list then please email me so that we can work to get  
that resolved. Let's not reopen old wounds but let's instead look to  
the future of encouraging the freedom to post information to benefit  
the cause!

Thanks everyone! Let the news, interesting research findings, project  
updates, and more flow! :)
Michelle

On Feb 8, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Barrie Ellis wrote:

> I think posts that are well-meaning, good-mannered and either  
> promote good new stuff, progress, ideas, or ask genuine questions  
> have and will always be welcome on this list. Obviously no one  
> wants to get bombarded by too many similar posts, nor any snide  
> comments. I think we've managed to keep this a friendly and useful  
> list across the years, in no small part thanks to Michelle  
> overseeing this community. It's a really good resource. Long may it  
> continue.
>
> Barrie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mark Barlet
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:17 PM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] VisionPlay
>
> Oh, I did not know we could do that. I was told not to post stories  
> from AbleGamers unless it was something especially note worthy, and  
> even then I have been chided. I guess this is a change in list  
> policy. Keep up the great work Javier.
>
> Great to know.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:40 PM, D. Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu>  
> wrote:
> Cool Javier!
>
> BTW, for your next link post would you mind adding the article  
> title and maybe the first paragraph with a "to read more, go to"  
> and then the link? That would help people who are just scanning  
> through but not sure if it's a link related to what they are  
> interested in.
>
> That would be great! Thanks for sending such great stuff to the  
> list from your blog! Very nice to have the auto-translated  
> articles. :)
>
> Michelle
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Javier wrote:
>
>> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A// 
>> www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2010/02/visionplay-control-sin-mandos- 
>> en-pc.html%23more&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that  
> advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment  
> space.
> Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From hinn at uiuc.edu  Mon Feb  8 22:26:50 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:26:50 -0600
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002081357j4a67ace9u669027f9ba0d12fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <191870b71002081357j4a67ace9u669027f9ba0d12fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9A5A679-CAE2-4054-ADE8-778F758BD5BC@uiuc.edu>

Great article! The Prospective Newsletter is a new format rather than  
the old text newsletter -- you are right it's looking really great!

Dragon Age will certainly be considered for the ELAN award shows  
"Most Accessible Mainstream Game of 2009" award -- it will be going  
against a number of games in a multitude of genres but certainly it's  
a very strong entry! This is the first time that an industry award  
show has picked up the torch of accessibility (believe me, I  
know...I've been arguing for shows to include this for years and  
years now and they put it into the show when finalizing their  
categories in November!). I really feel like all of us are moving in  
the right direction!

So good on you Mark for getting game accessibility into the  
newsletter in such a big way! You should be proud!

Michelle

On Feb 8, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Mark Barlet wrote:

> All,
>
>  IGDA members should have just got an email about the new Feb issue  
> of Prospective Newsletter. Looks great, (gets bigger every month).  
> Anyway AbleGamers Accessibility Game of the Year award has a great  
> 2 page story on the topic of the award and Dragon Age's  
> accessibility plus.  It is great to see game accessibility in the  
> newsletter of IGDA. I am very proud.
>
> Here is a link to the feb Newsletter...
>
> http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010- 
> IGDA_Perspectives.pdf
>
> Mark C. Barlet
> AbleGamers Foundation Inc.
>
>
> -- 
>
> The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that  
> advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment  
> space.
> Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 03:25:59 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:25:59 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Posting
In-Reply-To: <40106546-659B-4A5C-BCF1-1CC7DA9EC531@uiuc.edu>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEFBECF4F75D48E8AB022CB956D5A125@OneSwitchPC>
	<40106546-659B-4A5C-BCF1-1CC7DA9EC531@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002090025h1e0e147dn9c9ed2029218038b@mail.gmail.com>

Im "new" here, and I dont know about past here, but I know we have a lot of
work now.
So, all of you, close your wounds and keep working!!!
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From hinn at uiuc.edu  Tue Feb  9 10:24:57 2010
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (D. Michelle Hinn)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:24:57 -0600
Subject: [games_access] Posting
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002090025h1e0e147dn9c9ed2029218038b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b900ac551002080917h3dbf62deq46d6aa2255964d62@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745C21D-4A87-489F-B4D9-4433CBF4B5D4@uiuc.edu>
	<191870b71002081017n52498b1j86defc4337861a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEFBECF4F75D48E8AB022CB956D5A125@OneSwitchPC>
	<40106546-659B-4A5C-BCF1-1CC7DA9EC531@uiuc.edu>
	<b900ac551002090025h1e0e147dn9c9ed2029218038b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FC717AD-2C8E-4B03-8357-C90CF23121D4@uiuc.edu>

:)

Well said, Javier! :) Yes, I agree -- let's look forward! Thank you  
for bringing us news from Spain and helping get it translated for  
those of us whose common (but not necessarily native) language is  
English. Please keep up the good work!

Michelle

On Feb 9, 2010, at 2:25 AM, Javier wrote:

> Im "new" here, and I dont know about past here, but I know we have  
> a lot of work now.
> So, all of you, close your wounds and keep working!!!
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



From Joshua at igda.org  Tue Feb  9 11:43:16 2010
From: Joshua at igda.org (Joshua Caulfield)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:43:16 -0500
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
References: <191870b71002081357j4a67ace9u669027f9ba0d12fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9A5A679-CAE2-4054-ADE8-778F758BD5BC@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA02C10CF4@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM>

Hello Folks,
 
I just wanted to drop a line and mention I think it was a very cool article, and I think you all have some incredible discussions here.  I read as many as I can, and am always impressed with the thought that goes into the posting.  Very high quality content from all of you.
 
And so, just as I have done with the QA sig I say unto thee:  Bring me another!  You're some great writers and there are some great accessibility stories out there to tell.  So send them over to myself or David Wright, and let's get the word out.
 
The newsletter is one of your tools as a SIG to address the community and you have my full support in getting your content in there.
 
And don't forget to vote!
We announced the IGDA Candidates, and voting begins on the 14th, Valentines Day and Chinese New Year (a once in 70 years occurrence), so take a look over these folks and lets try and pick 5 form this awesome group of folks.
 
Best,
Joshua

________________________________

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of D. Michelle Hinn
Sent: Mon 2/8/2010 10:26 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.


Great article! The Prospective Newsletter is a new format rather than the old text newsletter -- you are right it's looking really great! 

Dragon Age will certainly be considered for the ELAN award shows "Most Accessible Mainstream Game of 2009" award -- it will be going against a number of games in a multitude of genres but certainly it's a very strong entry! This is the first time that an industry award show has picked up the torch of accessibility (believe me, I know...I've been arguing for shows to include this for years and years now and they put it into the show when finalizing their categories in November!). I really feel like all of us are moving in the right direction!

So good on you Mark for getting game accessibility into the newsletter in such a big way! You should be proud!

Michelle

On Feb 8, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Mark Barlet wrote:


	All,
	
	 IGDA members should have just got an email about the new Feb issue of Prospective Newsletter. Looks great, (gets bigger every month). Anyway AbleGamers Accessibility Game of the Year award has a great 2 page story on the topic of the award and Dragon Age's accessibility plus.  It is great to see game accessibility in the newsletter of IGDA. I am very proud.
	
	Here is a link to the feb Newsletter...
	
	http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf
	
	Mark C. Barlet
	AbleGamers Foundation Inc.
	
	
	-- 
	
	The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
	Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org <http://www.ablegamers.org/> 
	
	
	_______________________________________________
	games_access mailing list
	games_access at igda.org
	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Feb  9 16:06:05 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:06:05 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Silver Gaming,  how to introduce gaming :-)
Message-ID: <1136149740@web.de>

Hi,

a nice recommendation is to play with the "leading" senior of the group.

When the "leading" person is against gaming. It is hard to get the others playing.
Also when they like gaming.


Personal:
Sometimes it is also not easy to have the personal be positive about gaming.
They often have to learn how to play.
It would be great when "gaming" would be part of the training, apprenticeship,...

Best regards,
Sandra
______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Feb  9 16:08:40 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:08:40 +0100
Subject: [games_access] One Switch: Automatic scanning
Message-ID: <1136153559@web.de>

Hi,

the game Genesis (silver gaming) use interesting automatic scanning modes.

One mode works in this way:
The user moves the focus through clicking the button.
When the user does nothing it means yes/on, select focus.

This can be useful for people who are very active.
But I do not have any experience with this.


Best regards,
Sandra
______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Feb  9 15:58:01 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:58:01 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Silver Gaming, Using the Wii Mote
Message-ID: <1136141360@web.de>

Hi,

I learnt at the Silver Gaming Conference that seniors often have problems to move/use the fingers.
They sometimes can use the Wii Controller, but cannot push the buttons.

Here it would be very useful when they could remap the buttons.
A "solution" was, that they turned the controller (Button B at the top) but this did not work with the movement.


Best regards,
Sandra

______________________________________________________
GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Feb  9 16:02:06 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:02:06 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Silver Gaming, new chance with better market numbers?
Message-ID: <1136145216@web.de>

Hi,

do we have now a better chance with game accessibility, when we use numbers for silver gaming?
There are lots of seniors and everyone gets old. Here we have more numbers and most of seniors
need game accessibility features. Also the impairments have a wide range and most of the disabilities are affected.

I hope it is understandable. When not write back.


Best regards,
Sandra
_________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:53:31 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:53:31 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Silver Gaming,
	new chance with better market 	numbers?
In-Reply-To: <1136145216@web.de>
References: <1136145216@web.de>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002091353h21d2add6ud376008020623577@mail.gmail.com>

that is why accessibility will come for sure in the future.

We are working now to make accessibility today, but in future, when the
people who has grown with videogames gets old... they (and me) will still
want to play.

2010/2/9 Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>

> Hi,
>
> do we have now a better chance with game accessibility, when we use numbers
> for silver gaming?
> There are lots of seniors and everyone gets old. Here we have more numbers
> and most of seniors
> need game accessibility features. Also the impairments have a wide range
> and most of the disabilities are affected.
>
> I hope it is understandable. When not write back.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> _________________________________________
> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
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From dennis.asher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:19:46 2010
From: dennis.asher at gmail.com (Dennis Asher)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:19:46 +1300
Subject: [games_access] Silver Gaming,
	new chance with better market 	numbers?
In-Reply-To: <b900ac551002091353h21d2add6ud376008020623577@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1136145216@web.de>
	<b900ac551002091353h21d2add6ud376008020623577@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47d436d11002091419w22c0d19epbdb733002ad16b4b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sandra,
I remember seeing some stats last year that showed growth in the younger
gaming markets had stabilised and the new growth was in the older markets.
They were talking about 30+ but there is a lot of growth in the 50+ market
as well. If developers can get the message that catering for the rapidly
growing older market (silver gaming) means improving accessibility then the
features will be included as standard. It makes very good business sense. A
rapidly growing market offers many opportunities.

Regards

Dennis asher
nanogames.com

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Javier <javier.mairena at gmail.com> wrote:

> that is why accessibility will come for sure in the future.
>
> We are working now to make accessibility today, but in future, when the
> people who has grown with videogames gets old... they (and me) will still
> want to play.
>
> 2010/2/9 Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
>
> Hi,
>>
>> do we have now a better chance with game accessibility, when we use
>> numbers for silver gaming?
>> There are lots of seniors and everyone gets old. Here we have more numbers
>> and most of seniors
>> need game accessibility features. Also the impairments have a wide range
>> and most of the disabilities are affected.
>>
>> I hope it is understandable. When not write back.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>> _________________________________________
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
>> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 06:11:21 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:11:21 -0000
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
In-Reply-To: <7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA02C10CF4@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM>
References: <191870b71002081357j4a67ace9u669027f9ba0d12fb@mail.gmail.com><A9A5A679-CAE2-4054-ADE8-778F758BD5BC@uiuc.edu>
	<7D4E2A3629B61948BB695BA5C4CBF0FA02C10CF4@tmgmail.TALLEY.COM>
Message-ID: <64562575EECF48D99F1B340500C8FCF8@OneSwitchPC>

Thanks for the support, Joshua! We appreciate it.

I think Mark had done a great job promoting this article as I've seen it all 
over the place, and the IGDA mag is looking very nice. A great improvment:

http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf

I do think there are some overblown (perhaps just over enthusiastic 
statements) as regards the Dragon Age: Origin's overall accessibility, such 
as: "However, the relatively small font size was immediately addressed by 
Bioware, bringing the number of accessibility problems to zero." and "Orders 
can be issued during the pause, allowing anyone to keep up with the game no 
matter the level of cognitive impairment.". I don't agree with those 
statements as I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's, couldn't 
manage the control scheme, and some of whom wouldn't get on with the 
graphics as they stand. However, I can't take away the fact that Mark is 
making some waves and the push for greater accessibility is a good thing. 
I'd say, good effort, but don't forget the niche-of-a-niche disabled gamers. 
Now how arrogant do I sound?!

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk











--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joshua Caulfield" <Joshua at igda.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 4:43 PM
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.

> Hello Folks,
>
> I just wanted to drop a line and mention I think it was a very cool 
> article, and I think you all have some incredible discussions here.  I 
> read as many as I can, and am always impressed with the thought that goes 
> into the posting.  Very high quality content from all of you.
>
> And so, just as I have done with the QA sig I say unto thee:  Bring me 
> another!  You're some great writers and there are some great accessibility 
> stories out there to tell.  So send them over to myself or David Wright, 
> and let's get the word out.
>
> The newsletter is one of your tools as a SIG to address the community and 
> you have my full support in getting your content in there.
>
> And don't forget to vote!
> We announced the IGDA Candidates, and voting begins on the 14th, 
> Valentines Day and Chinese New Year (a once in 70 years occurrence), so 
> take a look over these folks and lets try and pick 5 form this awesome 
> group of folks.
>
> Best,
> Joshua
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of D. Michelle Hinn
> Sent: Mon 2/8/2010 10:26 PM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 
> 17.
>
>
> Great article! The Prospective Newsletter is a new format rather than the 
> old text newsletter -- you are right it's looking really great!
>
> Dragon Age will certainly be considered for the ELAN award shows "Most 
> Accessible Mainstream Game of 2009" award -- it will be going against a 
> number of games in a multitude of genres but certainly it's a very strong 
> entry! This is the first time that an industry award show has picked up 
> the torch of accessibility (believe me, I know...I've been arguing for 
> shows to include this for years and years now and they put it into the 
> show when finalizing their categories in November!). I really feel like 
> all of us are moving in the right direction!
>
> So good on you Mark for getting game accessibility into the newsletter in 
> such a big way! You should be proud!
>
> Michelle
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Mark Barlet wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> IGDA members should have just got an email about the new Feb issue of 
> Prospective Newsletter. Looks great, (gets bigger every month). Anyway 
> AbleGamers Accessibility Game of the Year award has a great 2 page story 
> on the topic of the award and Dragon Age's accessibility plus.  It is 
> great to see game accessibility in the newsletter of IGDA. I am very 
> proud.
>
> Here is a link to the feb Newsletter...
>
> http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf
>
> Mark C. Barlet
> AbleGamers Foundation Inc.
>
>
> -- 
>
> The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for 
> greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
> Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org <http://www.ablegamers.org/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>



> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> 


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Feb 10 06:37:53 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:37:53 +0100
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
Message-ID: <1136843114@web.de>

Hi Barrie,

that is one of the reason why we should always work in a team. :-)
Game Accessibility is very complex and sometimes confusing.

Usually it is not possible to make it accessible for all.
The only thing we can do is to reduce barriers and give feedback.

And this is something that works very well in this group.
I like it that the members help each other and give friendly feedback.

It would be great, when this would be the same with exergaming groups ;-)

Best regards,
Sandra

************************************

Barrie wrote:

Thanks for the support, Joshua! We appreciate it.

I think Mark had done a great job promoting this article as I've seen it all
over the place, and the IGDA mag is looking very nice. A great improvment:

http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf

I do think there are some overblown (perhaps just over enthusiastic
statements) as regards the Dragon Age: Origin's overall accessibility, such
as: "However, the relatively small font size was immediately addressed by
Bioware, bringing the number of accessibility problems to zero." and "Orders
can be issued during the pause, allowing anyone to keep up with the game no
matter the level of cognitive impairment.". I don't agree with those
statements as I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's, couldn't
manage the control scheme, and some of whom wouldn't get on with the
graphics as they stand. However, I can't take away the fact that Mark is
making some waves and the push for greater accessibility is a good thing.
I'd say, good effort, but don't forget the niche-of-a-niche disabled gamers.
Now how arrogant do I sound?!

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk
_________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/



From mark at ablegamers.com  Wed Feb 10 09:07:19 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:07:19 -0500
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
In-Reply-To: <1136843114@web.de>
References: <1136843114@web.de>
Message-ID: <191870b71002100607o7507e218w3516904654ffdc39@mail.gmail.com>

Barrie,

/start random rambling

 I know we have had this discussion off list in the past. I agree that the
game is not perfect for every disabled person out there. But one of the
challenges AbleGamer has to come up with was what was a reasonable
expectation for a MAINSTREAM game to have for accessibility. To your point "
I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's" to make a game that is
accessible to those you call out would in turn make the game not a
mainstream success that it has turned out to be. And if you want to argue
inclusion before profit then I think we are all dreaming.  As a gamer I am
willing to accept that there are some things that I may not be able to play
due to my disability, just like I accept that there are NON gaming tasks I
am not able to do,  but while I do not speak for the whole disabled gamers,
the ones I know are would rather see a good game that they can not play than
an okay game that they do not want to play.

This is where I have always struggled with game accessibility in the
mainstream space. There is a huge number of disabled people that are fully
cognitive. They are in bodies that are less than ideal, but the cognitive
side of the house is in order. With the technology that is out today there
is no reason why MAINSTREAM games cannot be built to help that disabled
population and still stay mainstream. DA proved it. That said, there is also
this population of folks with cognitive disabilities, and the needs of this
population is 180 degrees of what the other population needs to play and is
a lot more complex to do even if you set out to do it, because many of these
cognitive disabilities manifest themselves in SO MANY different ways. But
even then DA did have one feature that is part of Michelle's top 10, and
that is the ability to pause the game anywhere and do things. DA does that,
and we called it out.

I have had many conversations off list about mainstream gaming and universal
accessibility, and to me, if that is where you want to set the bar, then the
gaming industry will not be able to ever get over the top of it, and because
the bar is so high and so counter to the art of making a blockbuster game,
they will stop trying and move on. That is why AbleGamers has setup the
review system as it has.  I can run 100 feet if I have to, I can not run 500
yards if I wanted to... and I am not even going to try because I know I will
fail, and why on earth would I set myself up for failure?

That said, the bulk of the staff of AbleGamers is in fact disabled. Some
more than others but 80% of the staff is disabled. We are working with folks
on the front line of some of the independent gaming space to make sure that
we cover and call out games that are less mainstream and more focused on a
target audience. Look for some of that in the spring.

Anyway way that is my 2 cents... I am sure it is worth far less.

Oh and speaking of text size and my promotion of AbleGamers Mainstream
Accessible Game of the Year,

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/no-fix-for-mass-effect-2-text-issue-could-have-been-avoided.ars

Off given that BIOWARE makes both games... and ME2 only got a 5.0 on our
review.
http://www.ablegamers.com/pc/mass-effect-2.html

/end random rambling


On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:

> Hi Barrie,
>
> that is one of the reason why we should always work in a team. :-)
> Game Accessibility is very complex and sometimes confusing.
>
> Usually it is not possible to make it accessible for all.
> The only thing we can do is to reduce barriers and give feedback.
>
> And this is something that works very well in this group.
> I like it that the members help each other and give friendly feedback.
>
> It would be great, when this would be the same with exergaming groups ;-)
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
> ************************************
>
> Barrie wrote:
>
> Thanks for the support, Joshua! We appreciate it.
>
> I think Mark had done a great job promoting this article as I've seen it
> all
> over the place, and the IGDA mag is looking very nice. A great improvment:
>
> http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf
>
> I do think there are some overblown (perhaps just over enthusiastic
> statements) as regards the Dragon Age: Origin's overall accessibility, such
> as: "However, the relatively small font size was immediately addressed by
> Bioware, bringing the number of accessibility problems to zero." and
> "Orders
> can be issued during the pause, allowing anyone to keep up with the game no
> matter the level of cognitive impairment.". I don't agree with those
> statements as I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's, couldn't
> manage the control scheme, and some of whom wouldn't get on with the
> graphics as they stand. However, I can't take away the fact that Mark is
> making some waves and the push for greater accessibility is a good thing.
> I'd say, good effort, but don't forget the niche-of-a-niche disabled
> gamers.
> Now how arrogant do I sound?!
>
> Barrie
> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
> _________________________________________
> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>



-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for
greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
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From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:33:17 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:33:17 +0100
Subject: [games_access] IGDA Newsletter, Great Story on Page 16 and 17.
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002100607o7507e218w3516904654ffdc39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1136843114@web.de>
	<191870b71002100607o7507e218w3516904654ffdc39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002100633m70166587iaac77155efca0be9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I want to express my opinion because many of you are doing that  :)

I'm sorry, i want to be hard with game developers  xD
And I am a game developer!!  (coder)
But I think we are here to say all the truth and not to exclude a group of
people who are already in a excluded group.

I understand Mark, he wants to encourage the industry and not to punish
them. But I want to be realistic as he said he is realistic knowing he cant
do some things because his disability; as the same way, me as developer, I
have to be realistic and know that is really hard to make a videogame
accessible, and fully accessibility is impossible in a commercial game.

there are different points of view... but is the same cause...
so... keep working!!   ;)

2010/2/10 Mark Barlet <mark at ablegamers.com>

> Barrie,
>
> /start random rambling
>
>  I know we have had this discussion off list in the past. I agree that the
> game is not perfect for every disabled person out there. But one of the
> challenges AbleGamer has to come up with was what was a reasonable
> expectation for a MAINSTREAM game to have for accessibility. To your point "
> I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's" to make a game that is
> accessible to those you call out would in turn make the game not a
> mainstream success that it has turned out to be. And if you want to argue
> inclusion before profit then I think we are all dreaming.  As a gamer I am
> willing to accept that there are some things that I may not be able to play
> due to my disability, just like I accept that there are NON gaming tasks I
> am not able to do,  but while I do not speak for the whole disabled gamers,
> the ones I know are would rather see a good game that they can not play than
> an okay game that they do not want to play.
>
> This is where I have always struggled with game accessibility in the
> mainstream space. There is a huge number of disabled people that are fully
> cognitive. They are in bodies that are less than ideal, but the cognitive
> side of the house is in order. With the technology that is out today there
> is no reason why MAINSTREAM games cannot be built to help that disabled
> population and still stay mainstream. DA proved it. That said, there is also
> this population of folks with cognitive disabilities, and the needs of this
> population is 180 degrees of what the other population needs to play and is
> a lot more complex to do even if you set out to do it, because many of these
> cognitive disabilities manifest themselves in SO MANY different ways. But
> even then DA did have one feature that is part of Michelle's top 10, and
> that is the ability to pause the game anywhere and do things. DA does that,
> and we called it out.
>
> I have had many conversations off list about mainstream gaming and
> universal accessibility, and to me, if that is where you want to set the
> bar, then the gaming industry will not be able to ever get over the top of
> it, and because the bar is so high and so counter to the art of making a
> blockbuster game, they will stop trying and move on. That is why AbleGamers
> has setup the review system as it has.  I can run 100 feet if I have to, I
> can not run 500 yards if I wanted to... and I am not even going to try
> because I know I will fail, and why on earth would I set myself up for
> failure?
>
> That said, the bulk of the staff of AbleGamers is in fact disabled. Some
> more than others but 80% of the staff is disabled. We are working with folks
> on the front line of some of the independent gaming space to make sure that
> we cover and call out games that are less mainstream and more focused on a
> target audience. Look for some of that in the spring.
>
> Anyway way that is my 2 cents... I am sure it is worth far less.
>
> Oh and speaking of text size and my promotion of AbleGamers Mainstream
> Accessible Game of the Year,
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/no-fix-for-mass-effect-2-text-issue-could-have-been-avoided.ars
>
> Off given that BIOWARE makes both games... and ME2 only got a 5.0 on our
> review.
> http://www.ablegamers.com/pc/mass-effect-2.html
>
> /end random rambling
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi Barrie,
>>
>> that is one of the reason why we should always work in a team. :-)
>> Game Accessibility is very complex and sometimes confusing.
>>
>> Usually it is not possible to make it accessible for all.
>> The only thing we can do is to reduce barriers and give feedback.
>>
>> And this is something that works very well in this group.
>> I like it that the members help each other and give friendly feedback.
>>
>> It would be great, when this would be the same with exergaming groups ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>> ************************************
>>
>> Barrie wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the support, Joshua! We appreciate it.
>>
>> I think Mark had done a great job promoting this article as I've seen it
>> all
>> over the place, and the IGDA mag is looking very nice. A great improvment:
>>
>> http://www.igda.org/sites/default/files/February2010-IGDA_Perspectives.pdf
>>
>> I do think there are some overblown (perhaps just over enthusiastic
>> statements) as regards the Dragon Age: Origin's overall accessibility,
>> such
>> as: "However, the relatively small font size was immediately addressed by
>> Bioware, bringing the number of accessibility problems to zero." and
>> "Orders
>> can be issued during the pause, allowing anyone to keep up with the game
>> no
>> matter the level of cognitive impairment.". I don't agree with those
>> statements as I know a lot of players who just can't grasp RPG's, couldn't
>> manage the control scheme, and some of whom wouldn't get on with the
>> graphics as they stand. However, I can't take away the fact that Mark is
>> making some waves and the push for greater accessibility is a good thing.
>> I'd say, good effort, but don't forget the niche-of-a-niche disabled
>> gamers.
>> Now how arrogant do I sound?!
>>
>> Barrie
>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>> _________________________________________
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL ?ber 1000,- ? sparen!
>> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates for
> greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
> Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
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From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Fri Feb 12 03:44:22 2010
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:44:22 -0800
Subject: [games_access] What Colorblind Hackers See In BioShock2
Message-ID: <4B7514E6.6050401@designdirectdeliver.com>

http://kotaku.com/5469989/what-colorblind-hackers-see-in-bioshock-2?

Complete with screengrab!
Sheri

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO and Founder

*Design Direct Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Feb 13 18:27:02 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:27:02 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Usability - Accessibility
Message-ID: <000101caad04$0ca8e470$25faad50$@de>

Hi,

it would be great to a short description about the results of the
discussion.
So I can talk with others about it. Otherwise the information is lost?

@Michelle:
Do you need help with the new SIG page?

Regards,
Sandra







From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Feb 16 04:51:27 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:51:27 +0100
Subject: [games_access] modular button controller
Message-ID: <000701caaeed$9c546820$d4fd3860$@de>

Hello,

Controller from World of Genesis Project:

This is a non-commercial controller. 
It consists of single buttons that can be set together in different ways:
line, cross.
The game can be played with just one button up to 5 buttons.
They also have one special controller that is "waterproof".  (Because some
people have "saliva" problems) 
It is also possible to put something in between so the distance of the
buttons is larger.

http://world-of-genesis.org/ -> Eingabeger?te
or:
http://world-of-genesis.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=33&
Itemid=25

Best regards,
Sandra





From mark at ablegamers.com  Wed Feb 17 16:41:57 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:41:57 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Speaking of Game Accessibility Day...
Message-ID: <191870b71002171341o56a7785bodd00ba40cd73a73e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

As you know The AbleGamers Foundation is among those working with the
Games for Health Project to put on Game Accessibility day as part of
Games for Health in Boston May 25-27.

One of the ideas we've been tasked with is thinking about how we could
have a real group participation session that might result in some
brainstorming and output that could be valuable to the large GA
community.

So here is a question for this group. If we have 60 people in the room
from all over the technology, game development, therapy, and academia,
and we were to devote time to opening the floor up for brainstorming
and finding solutions what would be the questions you would like to
see answered?

 If you have any questions about this or that lets talk about here so
that I can use this amazing brain trust in the room and see what comes
of it. What we plan to do from there is publish the answers in an
article on Gamasutra, and Games For Health and AbleGamers that evening
for everyone to see and spur further public participation.

To kick things off one idea I had was to potentially brainstorm what a
site for parents of disabled gamers might look like.  What would be a
well done parent 101 site on accessibility for games look like and how
might we rapidly design, build, and publish it?

An idea Ben Sawyer had was what would be the script in terms of time
(e.g. 5 minutes on this topic,  4 minutes of this speaker) that would
make up the ultimate 60 minute documentary on games accessibility?

Send me over your thoughts I will get them all on a list, and lets see
how many we can put to the group.

Thanks

Mark Barlet

President and CEO
The AbleGamers Foundation
-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates
for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org


From j.chetwynd at btinternet.com  Thu Feb 18 11:28:32 2010
From: j.chetwynd at btinternet.com (Jonathan Chetwynd)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:28:32 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Internet Game Standard and Working Group
Message-ID: <DBFA8837-CED2-42D3-9FED-2FD83317FF5A@btinternet.com>

Internet Game Standard and Working Group


Tired of javascript libraries?

Fed up with flash, java and APIs?

Want to play with data in the browser?


Contact me off-list.

Jonathan Chetwynd


From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Fri Feb 19 18:49:00 2010
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:49:00 -0800
Subject: [games_access] A personal note on the IGDA Board of Director
	elections...
Message-ID: <4B7F236C.3080302@designdirectdeliver.com>


*Note: *This email comes to you from me, Sheri Rubin, as a general IGDA 
member. This is not an endorsement for anyone as a SIG chair or chapter 
coordinator or any of that. It's me, the member, who is taking an active 
interest in this year's elections.

Hi everyone,

This is your best opportunity to help select the leadership that runs 
the org and will be working to help all of us improve the IGDA and 
industry as a whole.

You can read about the candidates here: 
http://www.igda.org/igda-board-directors-2010-candidate-statements

If you're interested in some additional info Scott Macmillan has put 
together additional commentary and background on all of the candidates
and posed more questions to them too: 
http://www.macguffingames.com/2010/igda-elections-candidate-scrutiny/

Finally, you should vote here: http://www.igda.org/2010election/BoDVote

Personally there are a few people I'd like to draw your attention to 
specifically, if you haven't voted yet, who have never been on the board 
before that could be crucial to the success of community efforts of 
SIGs, like this one.

I believe David Edery, Michelle Hinn, Jane Pinckard, and Ian Schrieber 
will all be great supporters of SIGs if elected to the board.

Additionally:
Wendy Despain. She's on quite a few SIGs, is in charge of the writing 
SIG, and knows what SIGs need. Do it! Please!

Darius Kazemi (www.dariusforigda.org). This dude has been campaigning 
for a year now and I think and it's well deserved. Please vote for 
Darius! (There's even a Darius for IGDA facebook group for those on 
facebook.) While he's primarily been a chapter guy I have talked with 
him on many occasions and I know he'll work to support SIGs too.

Seriously - this vote is important, beyond important. I would definitely 
recommend that out of any year you've been a member THIS is the year to 
make sure you get your votes in!

I have >NEVER< campaigned publicly before on any of these elections and 
I hope you take that as a sign of just how important I feel these 
elections are to the organization as a whole.

I'm happy to talk to anyone off-list about any of the statements I've 
made or anything else related to the IGDA in general.

With much respect,
Sheri Rubin
IGDA Profile: http://www.igda.org/user/31196

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO and Founder

*Design Direct Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Feb 20 07:02:04 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:02:04 +0100
Subject: [games_access] A personal note on the IGDA Board of
	Director	elections...
In-Reply-To: <4B7F236C.3080302@designdirectdeliver.com>
References: <4B7F236C.3080302@designdirectdeliver.com>
Message-ID: <001901cab224$855530c0$8fff9240$@de>

Hi Sheri,

thank you very much for this very important reminder.
Can student members also vote? I do not have access.

Regards,
Sandra

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Sheri Rubin
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Februar 2010 00:49
An: games_access at igda.org
Betreff: [games_access] A personal note on the IGDA Board of Director
elections...


Note: This email comes to you from me, Sheri Rubin, as a general IGDA
member. This is not an endorsement for anyone as a SIG chair or chapter
coordinator or any of that. It's me, the member, who is taking an active
interest in this year's elections.

Hi everyone,

This is your best opportunity to help select the leadership that runs the
org and will be working to help all of us improve the IGDA and industry as a
whole.

You can read about the candidates here:
http://www.igda.org/igda-board-directors-2010-candidate-statements

If you're interested in some additional info Scott Macmillan has put
together additional commentary and background on all of the candidates and
posed more questions to them too:
http://www.macguffingames.com/2010/igda-elections-candidate-scrutiny/

Finally, you should vote here: http://www.igda.org/2010election/BoDVote

Personally there are a few people I'd like to draw your attention to
specifically, if you haven't voted yet, who have never been on the board
before that could be crucial to the success of community efforts of SIGs,
like this one.

I believe David Edery, Michelle Hinn, Jane Pinckard, and Ian Schrieber will
all be great supporters of SIGs if elected to the board.

Additionally:
Wendy Despain. She's on quite a few SIGs, is in charge of the writing SIG,
and knows what SIGs need. Do it! Please!

Darius Kazemi (www.dariusforigda.org). This dude has been campaigning for a
year now and I think and it's well deserved. Please vote for Darius!
(There's even a Darius for IGDA facebook group for those on facebook.) While
he's primarily been a chapter guy I have talked with him on many occasions
and I know he'll work to support SIGs too.

Seriously - this vote is important, beyond important. I would definitely
recommend that out of any year you've been a member THIS is the year to make
sure you get your votes in!

I have >NEVER< campaigned publicly before on any of these elections and I
hope you take that as a sign of just how important I feel these elections
are to the organization as a whole.

I'm happy to talk to anyone off-list about any of the statements I've made
or anything else related to the IGDA in general.

With much respect,
Sheri Rubin
IGDA Profile: http://www.igda.org/user/31196


--
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com




From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Sat Feb 20 12:33:36 2010
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:33:36 -0800
Subject: [games_access] A personal note on the IGDA Board of	Director
 elections...
In-Reply-To: <001901cab224$855530c0$8fff9240$@de>
References: <4B7F236C.3080302@designdirectdeliver.com>
	<001901cab224$855530c0$8fff9240$@de>
Message-ID: <4B801CF0.8030703@designdirectdeliver.com>

Hi Sandra,

You must be a full "standard" member to vote.

Sheri

Sandra Uhling wrote:
> Hi Sheri,
>
> thank you very much for this very important reminder.
> Can student members also vote? I do not have access.
>
> Regards,
> Sandra
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von Sheri Rubin
> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Februar 2010 00:49
> An: games_access at igda.org
> Betreff: [games_access] A personal note on the IGDA Board of Director
> elections...
>
>
> Note: This email comes to you from me, Sheri Rubin, as a general IGDA
> member. This is not an endorsement for anyone as a SIG chair or chapter
> coordinator or any of that. It's me, the member, who is taking an active
> interest in this year's elections.
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is your best opportunity to help select the leadership that runs the
> org and will be working to help all of us improve the IGDA and industry as a
> whole.
>
> You can read about the candidates here:
> http://www.igda.org/igda-board-directors-2010-candidate-statements
>
> If you're interested in some additional info Scott Macmillan has put
> together additional commentary and background on all of the candidates and
> posed more questions to them too:
> http://www.macguffingames.com/2010/igda-elections-candidate-scrutiny/
>
> Finally, you should vote here: http://www.igda.org/2010election/BoDVote
>
> Personally there are a few people I'd like to draw your attention to
> specifically, if you haven't voted yet, who have never been on the board
> before that could be crucial to the success of community efforts of SIGs,
> like this one.
>
> I believe David Edery, Michelle Hinn, Jane Pinckard, and Ian Schrieber will
> all be great supporters of SIGs if elected to the board.
>
> Additionally:
> Wendy Despain. She's on quite a few SIGs, is in charge of the writing SIG,
> and knows what SIGs need. Do it! Please!
>
> Darius Kazemi (www.dariusforigda.org). This dude has been campaigning for a
> year now and I think and it's well deserved. Please vote for Darius!
> (There's even a Darius for IGDA facebook group for those on facebook.) While
> he's primarily been a chapter guy I have talked with him on many occasions
> and I know he'll work to support SIGs too.
>
> Seriously - this vote is important, beyond important. I would definitely
> recommend that out of any year you've been a member THIS is the year to make
> sure you get your votes in!
>
> I have >NEVER< campaigned publicly before on any of these elections and I
> hope you take that as a sign of just how important I feel these elections
> are to the organization as a whole.
>
> I'm happy to talk to anyone off-list about any of the statements I've made
> or anything else related to the IGDA in general.
>
> With much respect,
> Sheri Rubin
> IGDA Profile: http://www.igda.org/user/31196
>
>
> --
> Sheri Rubin
> CEO and Founder
>
> Design Direct Deliver
> Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
> Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>   

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO and Founder

*Design Direct Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Feb 22 10:13:17 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:13:17 +0100
Subject: [games_access] New Universal-Controller (Sony?)
Message-ID: <001501cab3d1$90053e80$b00fbb80$@de>

Hello all,

short translation by me: 
Is Sony working on an universal controller?
Sony "submitted" a patent for an universal controller. They are working on a
controller
That supports all "current" consoles: PS3, Xbox360, Wii, certain classic
controller.
Connection will be with cable and wireless. The configuration can be made by
a "touchscreen".
It can be added with Force Feedback and loud speaker.




Arbeitet Sony am Universal-Controller?
Sony arbeitet offenbar an einem speziellen Controller f?r Kunden, die mehr
als nur eine Konsole besitzen. US-Medien zufolge hat der Konzern beim
US-Patentamt Unterlagen f?r einen Universal-Controller eingereicht. Demnach
arbeitet Sony an einem Controller, der die Steuerung von Spielen auf allen
g?ngigen Konsolen erm?glichen soll. Multiplattform-Gamer m?ssten so nicht
mehr mit mehreren Eingabeger?ten hantieren.

Das Ger?t soll neben PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 und Wii auch die Steuerung
ausgesuchter klassischer Konsole erm?glichen. Den Berichten zufolge wird
Sonys Universal-Controller sowohl via Funk als ?ber Kabel die Verbindung zur
Konsole suchen. Die Einstellungen werden ?ber einen ber?hrungsempfindlichen
LCD-Bildschirm vorgenommen. Force Feedback und Lautsprecher k?nnen demnach
nachger?stet werden. Die Eingabe beim Patentamt ist nicht gleichbedeutend
mit einer bevorstehenden Ver?ffentlichung. Bis auf die technischen
Grunddaten ist dann auch nicht viel bekannt. Preis, Name und ein m?glicher
Ver?ffentlichungstermin bleiben zun?chst Geheimnis von Sony.

Source/Quelle: www.gamesmarkt.de

Best regards,
Sandra



From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Fri Feb 26 19:43:53 2010
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:43:53 -0800
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <4B886AC9.8060509@designdirectdeliver.com>

http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony

"Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. SonyIn October a visually-impaired 
gamer sued Sony, alleging that it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities 
under U.S. law to provide access to the disabled. The reasoning 
depending on finding that Sony's products constitute a public 
accommodation. A judge said they aren't."

Sheri

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO and Founder

*Design Direct Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
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From thomas at pininteractive.com  Sat Feb 27 04:20:40 2010
From: thomas at pininteractive.com (thomas at pininteractive.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:20:40 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4B886AC9.8060509@designdirectdeliver.com>
References: <4B886AC9.8060509@designdirectdeliver.com>
Message-ID: <4D2DC7C3-C7C9-405B-87B2-42C409E9AE50@pininteractive.com>

I think this reflect the current view of games as entertainment; this will change as games become platforms for public education. I'm working on such a project in Sweden

Kind regards,
Thomas

(Sent from my mobile)

On 27 feb 2010, at 01.43, "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com<mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>> wrote:

<http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony>http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony

"Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. SonyIn October a visually-impaired gamer sued Sony, alleging that it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities under U.S. law to provide access to the disabled. The reasoning depending on finding that Sony's products constitute a public accommodation. A judge said they aren't."

Sheri

--
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com> www.designdirectdeliver.com<http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com> sheri at designdirectdeliver.com<mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org<mailto:games_access at igda.org>
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From arthit73 at cablespeed.com  Sat Feb 27 12:18:17 2010
From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:18:17 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4D2DC7C3-C7C9-405B-87B2-42C409E9AE50@pininteractive.com>
References: <4B886AC9.8060509@designdirectdeliver.com>
	<4D2DC7C3-C7C9-405B-87B2-42C409E9AE50@pininteractive.com>
Message-ID: <C7D72011477D4EBB9CB674BA70E43FE2@florio57914627>

I give up on humanity.  We are also stupid!  Ever since my disability I
can't believe I realize how the game design industry is almost like a lost
cause.

I can't wait for the day to finally stick it to these stupid developers.

I hope my reply gets posted on that web site for that lawsuit report.  I
didn't see it but this is what I wrote.

 

"I can't believe that human rights are so ignorantly ignored.

As human beings we think we are invincible and as soon as we get a scratch
or leg or an earthquake happens we freak out thinking the world is ending.

It makes sense that the online environment is a public place.

I'm a quadriplegic I am 28 years old and I've been fighting for equal rights
for videogames ever since I got my degree in video game art and design at
the Art Institute of Pittsburgh.  Yes I am one of the first half a degree in
game design.  That's how serious we gamers with disabilities want a change.

It's ignorant and inhumane, disgusting its disgraceful and I can't believe
no one in this giant corporations like Sony doesn't have a child with a
disability or a disability themselves or fears that they might develop a
disability and not even be able to play their favorite games.  It's a human
commonsense called the human condition.

People are so stupid especially the ones with power.  Sony think they are so
smart.  They only give a crap about money.  Who doesn't right?

Some things just can't be changed we are corrupt as human beings naturally.
We haven't changed for thousands of years and the gaming industry seems to
be untouchable.  As long as geeks and nerds get their rocks off no one cares
about anyone else.

 

Robert Florio

www.RobertFlorio.com  

"

 

  _____  

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of thomas at pininteractive.com
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:21 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

 

I think this reflect the current view of games as entertainment; this will
change as games become platforms for public education. I'm working on such a
project in Sweden

Kind regards,

Thomas

 

(Sent from my mobile)


On 27 feb 2010, at 01.43, "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
wrote:

 <http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony>
http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony

"Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. SonyIn October a visually-impaired
gamer sued Sony, alleging that it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities
under U.S. law to provide access to the disabled. The reasoning depending on
finding that Sony's products constitute a public accommodation. A judge said
they aren't."

Sheri

-- 
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website:  <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com> www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email:  <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com> sheri at designdirectdeliver.com

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

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From mark at ablegamers.com  Sat Feb 27 13:12:58 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:12:58 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <C7D72011477D4EBB9CB674BA70E43FE2@florio57914627>
References: <4B886AC9.8060509@designdirectdeliver.com>
	<4D2DC7C3-C7C9-405B-87B2-42C409E9AE50@pininteractive.com>
	<C7D72011477D4EBB9CB674BA70E43FE2@florio57914627>
Message-ID: <191870b71002271012iaff96cckd90f49c2be4359ff@mail.gmail.com>

I could not disagree more. As soon as you force accessibility at the
level that the ADA prescribes video games as you know it will vanish.
All we will have left is oneswitch games (no offense to them, but for
many disabled gamers, they are not really much fun because we can use
more than a single switch).

ADA and the RA require that accommodation be made to the lowest common
denominator (not being mean, just stating the fact) so building
designers and so on have to work to accommodate the most disabled
person they can thing of. That is okay when you talk buildings, it
means ramps, auto doors, bathroom stalls and so on. It is another
story when you talk technology as advanced as a video game.

Fact is, if this case were to prevail, there would be NO video games
worth playing in the United States, because every AAA title you can
think of would be outlawed (because ADA does not give you partial
credit, ALL or OUTLAWED), and if they did do all the work to make it
compliant the chances are it would not be the game the mainstream
wanted, and no sell, and with ALL the development costs you would have
to pay $300 for it.

Oh and kiss XBOX and PSP, and DS, and PS3 goodbye because the
challenges that are presented there are even more difficult to
overcome.

I am glad it was tossed out. I would rather see a great game that is
pushing the boundaries of fun that I can not play because of my
disability than to not see that game developed at all. That is just
cutting off my nose to spite my face.

And you know what the meme would be in the gaming world? "A few
disabled people made video games illegal" No thank you, I face enough
challenges on a day to day basis, I do not want to have to own that
too.

Mark

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com> wrote:
> I give up on humanity.? We are also stupid!? Ever since my disability I
> can't believe I realize how the game design industry is almost like a lost
> cause.
>
> I can't wait for the day to finally stick it to these stupid developers.
>
> I hope my reply gets posted on that web site for that lawsuit report.? I
> didn't see it but this is what I wrote.
>
>
>
> ?I can't believe that human rights are so ignorantly ignored.
>
> As human beings we think we are invincible and as soon as we get a scratch
> or leg or an earthquake happens we freak out thinking the world is ending.
>
> It makes sense that the online environment is a public place.
>
> I'm a quadriplegic I am 28 years old and I've been fighting for equal rights
> for videogames ever since I got my degree in video game art and design at
> the Art Institute of Pittsburgh.? Yes I am one of the first half a degree in
> game design.? That's how serious we gamers with disabilities want a change.
>
> It's ignorant and inhumane, disgusting its disgraceful and I can't believe
> no one in this giant corporations like Sony doesn't have a child with a
> disability or a disability themselves or fears that they might develop a
> disability and not even be able to play their favorite games.? It's a human
> commonsense called the human condition.
>
> People are so stupid especially the ones with power.? Sony think they are so
> smart.? They only give a crap about money.? Who doesn't right?
>
> Some things just can't be changed we are corrupt as human beings naturally.
> We haven't changed for thousands of years and the gaming industry seems to
> be untouchable.? As long as geeks and nerds get their rocks off no one cares
> about anyone else.
>
>
>
> Robert Florio
>
> www.RobertFlorio.com
>
> ?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of thomas at pininteractive.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:21 AM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>
>
> I think this reflect the current view of games as entertainment; this will
> change as games become platforms for public education. I'm working on such a
> project in Sweden
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> (Sent from my mobile)
>
> On 27 feb 2010, at 01.43, "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
> wrote:
>
> http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony
>
> "Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. SonyIn October a visually-impaired
> gamer sued Sony, alleging that it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities
> under U.S. law to provide access to the disabled. The reasoning depending on
> finding that Sony's products constitute a public accommodation. A judge said
> they aren't."
>
> Sheri
>
> --
> Sheri Rubin
> CEO and Founder
>
> Design Direct Deliver
> Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
> Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>



-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates
for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org


From InRNette at aol.com  Sat Feb 27 15:28:38 2010
From: InRNette at aol.com (InRNette at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:28:38 EST
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <5597d.439fda5b.38bada76@aol.com>

Robert: It is the same way with any kind of educational software...it is  
all out there for the able-bodied but no changes to accommodate a differently 
 abled person.
 
Jeanette  Morgan

Morgan's Favorites
6904 Honeysuckle Ln
Theodore, AL  36582
251-583-1470
251-895-1396
www.morgansfavorites.com  

 
In a message dated 2/27/2010 11:57:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
arthit73 at cablespeed.com writes:

 
I give up on  humanity.  We are also stupid!  Ever since my disability I 
can't  believe I realize how the game design industry is almost like a lost  
cause. 
I can't wait for the  day to finally stick it to these stupid  developers. 
I hope my reply gets  posted on that web site for that lawsuit report.  I 
didn't see it but  this is what I wrote. 
?I can't  believe that human rights are so ignorantly  ignored. 
As human beings we think we are  invincible and as soon as we get a scratch 
or leg or an earthquake happens we  freak out thinking the world is ending. 
It makes sense that the online  environment is a public place. 
I'm a quadriplegic I am 28 years  old and I've been fighting for equal 
rights for videogames ever since I got my  degree in video game art and design 
at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh.   Yes I am one of the first half a degree 
in game design.  That's how  serious we gamers with disabilities want a  
change. 
It's ignorant and inhumane,  disgusting its disgraceful and I can't believe 
no one in this giant  corporations like Sony doesn't have a child with a 
disability or a disability  themselves or fears that they might develop a 
disability and not even be able  to play their favorite games.  It's a human 
commonsense called the human  condition. 
People are so stupid especially  the ones with power.  Sony think they are 
so smart.  They only give  a crap about money.  Who doesn't right? 
Some things just can't be changed  we are corrupt as human beings 
naturally.  We haven't changed for  thousands of years and the gaming industry seems 
to be untouchable.  As  long as geeks and nerds get their rocks off no one 
cares about anyone  else. 
Robert  Florio 
www.RobertFlorio.com   
? 
 
  
____________________________________
 
From:  games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] 
On Behalf Of  thomas at pininteractive.com
Sent_: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:21  AM
To: IGDA Games  Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses  Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
 
I think this reflect the  current view of games as entertainment; this will 
change as games become  platforms for public education. I'm working on such 
a project in  Sweden 
 
Kind  regards,




_ (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/) 
 
Thomas
 

(Sent from my  mobile) 
 

On 27 feb 2010, at  01.43, "Sheri Rubin" <
_sheri at designdirectdeliver.com_ (mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com) _>  
wrote:_ (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/)  
 


 (http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony) 
_http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony_ 
(http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony) _

"Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's  Suit vs. SonyIn October a visually-impaired 
gamer sued Sony, alleging that  it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities 
under U.S. law to provide access  to the disabled. The reasoning depending on 
finding that Sony's products  constitute a public accommodation. A judge said 
they  aren't."

Sheri_ (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/)  
 
-- 
Sheri  Rubin
CEO and  Founder

Design Direct  Deliver
Website: 
 (http://www.designdirectdeliver.com/) _www.designdirectdeliver.com_ 
(http://www.designdirectdeliver.com/) _
Email: _ (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/)  
(mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com) _sheri at designdirectdeliver.com_ 
(mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com)  (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/)  
 
_______________________________________________
games_access  mailing list


_games_access at igda.org_ (mailto:games_access at igda.org) 
 (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/) 
_http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access_ (http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access) 
 (http://www.morgansfavorites.com/) 

_______________________________________________
games_access  mailing  list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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From jbannick at 7128.com  Sat Feb 27 16:30:09 2010
From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:30:09 -0500
Subject: [games_access]  Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John


From arthit73 at cablespeed.com  Sat Feb 27 17:07:25 2010
From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:07:25 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
References: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
Message-ID: <FFC27EF4FE3A442C898593BDF87BDED1@florio57914627>

Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but you're
right John, we are doing a lot.

Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

Thanks
Robert Florio
www.RobertFlorio.com 



-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access




From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 27 18:30:28 2010
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matt Troup)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:30:28 -0800
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
References: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
Message-ID: <BAY134-DS29C8FF86A9ABE88D12831D93E0@phx.gbl>

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal anything.

Just to clarify the below statement and the discussion in general:

There was no trial.  The judge absolutely COULD NOT have required Sony to do 
anything, because the grounds the suit were brought on did not apply.

Videogames are not a public accommodation.

Here's an analogy for what happened, to help put this in perspective:

Scenario: Mark Bartlett punches me in the face.  I sue him for infringing on 
my patent.  The judge looks at me and says, "You dope, I have to toss this 
out.  Something may or may not have happened between you and Mark - but 
patent infringement was not it.  Try again".

If the trial finished with an affirmative ruling it would affect many 
different things.  Here are some other scenarios:

Scenario 1: I go to Best Buy and steal over $500 of video games.  Best Buy 
takes me to court.  My lawyer sites this case, showing that video games are 
a public accommodation.  I counter sue for millions of dollars saying Best 
Buy actively withheld me from a public accommodation.  I may or may not win 
the case, but I have grounds to make the claim.

Scenario 2: A new company is created and creates a service, like Itunes, 
that makes all music free.  The record industry, and Apple, goes nuts.  The 
new company cites this case saying that recorded music is a lot like 
videogames, and those have been deemed a public accommodation, so they 
should be able to distribute music for free.

Scenario 3: No games would ever be published.  Not because of reasons for 
ADA compliance, but because the company that created the game would not own 
the IP to have the right to work with a publisher.  The same would happen to 
Movies, Music, and Books.

I don't know a ton about the law, but I know enough to give a disclaimer at 
the top.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:30 PM
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access]  Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

> Folks,
>
> There is a middle way.
> ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
> Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
> Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
>
> The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
> least attempted ADA compliance.
> For example, applying VPAT 
> (http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat/) 
> and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.
>
> Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
> One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
> deaf-accessible.
> Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
> accessible.
> (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)
>
> Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature of 
> the game.
> Reasonable could also include economic viability.
>
> Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
> remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
> definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
> requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.
>
> What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into the 
> developers' business process. Not a bad thing.
>
> Robert's anger is understandable.
> And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
> could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
> controls.
> But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
> games.
>
> Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.
>
> In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of Mark, 
> Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in the 
> developer community.
> Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
> Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
> the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
> It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> 


From sherylflynn at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 27 18:37:22 2010
From: sherylflynn at yahoo.com (sheryl Flynn)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <FFC27EF4FE3A442C898593BDF87BDED1@florio57914627>
References: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
	<FFC27EF4FE3A442C898593BDF87BDED1@florio57914627>
Message-ID: <711515.78711.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

universal design?

some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

hugs

 ~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD


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________________________________
From: Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but you're
right John, we are doing a lot.

Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

Thanks
Robert Florio
www.RobertFlorio.com 



-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



      
-------------- next part --------------
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From ioo at ablegamers.com  Sat Feb 27 18:46:42 2010
From: ioo at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:46:42 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <BAY134-DS29C8FF86A9ABE88D12831D93E0@phx.gbl>
References: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com>
	<BAY134-DS29C8FF86A9ABE88D12831D93E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <365244494274168989@unknownmsgid>

For the record I would not punch you in the face. That said I an going
to sue you for spelling my name wrong. I will sue for patent
infringment or something.   :)

Mark Barlet.

Sent from a mobile device.

On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Matt Troup <foreversublime at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal anything.
>
> Just to clarify the below statement and the discussion in general:
>
> There was no trial.  The judge absolutely COULD NOT have required
> Sony to do anything, because the grounds the suit were brought on
> did not apply.
>
> Videogames are not a public accommodation.
>
> Here's an analogy for what happened, to help put this in perspective:
>
> Scenario: Mark Bartlett punches me in the face.  I sue him for
> infringing on my patent.  The judge looks at me and says, "You dope,
> I have to toss this out.  Something may or may not have happened
> between you and Mark - but patent infringement was not it.  Try
> again".
>
> If the trial finished with an affirmative ruling it would affect
> many different things.  Here are some other scenarios:
>
> Scenario 1: I go to Best Buy and steal over $500 of video games.
> Best Buy takes me to court.  My lawyer sites this case, showing that
> video games are a public accommodation.  I counter sue for millions
> of dollars saying Best Buy actively withheld me from a public
> accommodation.  I may or may not win the case, but I have grounds to
> make the claim.
>
> Scenario 2: A new company is created and creates a service, like
> Itunes, that makes all music free.  The record industry, and Apple,
> goes nuts.  The new company cites this case saying that recorded
> music is a lot like videogames, and those have been deemed a public
> accommodation, so they should be able to distribute music for free.
>
> Scenario 3: No games would ever be published.  Not because of
> reasons for ADA compliance, but because the company that created the
> game would not own the IP to have the right to work with a
> publisher.  The same would happen to Movies, Music, and Books.
>
> I don't know a ton about the law, but I know enough to give a
> disclaimer at the top.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:30 PM
> To: <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access]  Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> There is a middle way.
>> ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
>> Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
>> Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
>>
>> The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program
>> that at least attempted ADA compliance.
>> For example, applying VPAT (http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat/
>> ) and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.
>>
>> Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-
>> accessible.
>> One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made deaf-
>> accessible.
>> Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-
>> switch accessible.
>> (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)
>>
>> Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the
>> nature of the game.
>> Reasonable could also include economic viability.
>>
>> Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a
>> specific remediation, would add cost such as to make a game
>> unprofitable, then by definition it is not reasonable, in that it
>> denies the game to those not requiring that accommodation. Mark's
>> point exactly, I think.
>>
>> What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue
>> into the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.
>>
>> Robert's anger is understandable.
>> And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything
>> that could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as
>> were price controls.
>> But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied
>> to games.
>>
>> Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.
>>
>> In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of
>> Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a
>> difference in the developer community.
>> Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
>> Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and
>> some of the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
>> It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


From arthit73 at cablespeed.com  Sat Feb 27 18:58:47 2010
From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:58:47 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <711515.78711.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B898EE1.6000207@7128.com><FFC27EF4FE3A442C898593BDF87BDED1@florio57914627>
	<711515.78711.qm@web38408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E0A859662EC6433A8230624BE101423E@florio57914627>

Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play?

I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.

Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for
it.

Robert

 

  _____  

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

 

universal design?

some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with
disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop
until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all
kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

hugs

 

~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD

 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are
not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) you
are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and
that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it or
its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments
and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.



 

 

  _____  

From: Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but you're
right John, we are doing a lot.

Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

Thanks
Robert Florio
www.RobertFlorio.com 



-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

 

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From chuck at vtreellc.com  Sun Feb 28 01:05:58 2010
From: chuck at vtreellc.com (Chuck)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:05:58 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <724f9944$16b7c2ca$6915774d$@com>

Hi all.

 I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????

1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????

  The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game as 
accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF YOU 
HAVE PURCHASED IT

2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching about 
main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a game, none 
of you have said 1 word about it.

Here's the long and short of it.

 I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most part 
outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game 
developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME" 
which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with 
what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.

So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is doing 
more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group 
because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO 
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to 
"ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.

I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR EMAIL'S 
BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR MONEY TO 
ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS

Sincerely,
Chuck Bergen
President
VTree LLC

----------------------------------------

cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony 

Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play? 
I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group. 
Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for 
it. 
Robert 
  

----------------------------------------

From:  games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] 
On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony 
  

universal design?

some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with 
disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop 
until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all 
kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

hugs 

  
~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD  
  
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  

This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and 
privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are 
not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) 
you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error 
and that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it 
or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in 
error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments 
and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707 . 

  

  

----------------------------------------

From:  Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special 
interest
group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand 
the
struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans 
broadcast
live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an 
accessible
game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest 
congressman
for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or 
move,
actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed 
to
me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but 
you're
right John, we are doing a lot.

Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and 
say,
we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

Thanks
Robert Florio
www.RobertFlorio.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat

/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 
  
 
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From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Sun Feb 28 01:26:52 2010
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:26:52 -0800
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <724f9944$16b7c2ca$6915774d$@com>
References: <724f9944$16b7c2ca$6915774d$@com>
Message-ID: <4B8A0CAC.3020905@designdirectdeliver.com>

I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6 
months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was 
mentioned:

---- Original message ----

> >Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500
> >From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's Guide  
> >To: <inrnette at aol.com>, "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
> >
> >Hi Josh,
> >
> >AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here
> >http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could-
> >not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.  He
> >personally worked with the creators.  
> >
> >Steve Spohn

Sheri


Chuck wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>  I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????
>
> 1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????
>
>   The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game 
> as accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE 
> OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED IT
>
> 2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching 
> about main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a 
> game, none of you have said 1 word about it.
>
>
> Here's the long and short of it.
>
>
>  I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most 
> part outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video 
> game developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY 
> FOOTBALL GAME" which is by far and away a video game with everything 
> designed into it with what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream 
> developers don't do.
>
>
> So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is 
> doing more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this 
> group because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers 
> you guys "DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are 
> spending their money to "ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to 
> enjoy video gaming.
>
> I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR 
> EMAIL'S BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING 
> THEIR MONEY TO ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS
>
> Sincerely,
> Chuck Bergen
> President
> VTree LLC
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play?
>
> I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.
>
> Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the 
> energy for it.
>
> Robert
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* games_access-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *sheryl Flynn
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
> *To:* IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>  
>
> universal design?
>
> some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with 
> disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't 
> stop until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks 
> with all kinds of abilities will enjoy! 
>
> hugs
>
>  
>
> *~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD*
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: *
>
> This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential 
> and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. 
> If you are not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for 
> the recipient) you are hereby notified that you have received this 
> communication in error and that any review,disclosure, 
> dissemination,distribution or copying of it or its contents is 
> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please 
> destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments and 
> contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
> *To:* IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> *Sent:* Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
> frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special 
> interest
> group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
> Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
> should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.
>
> I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we 
> understand the
> struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
> president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans 
> broadcast
> live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.
>
> To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
> issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
> was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an 
> accessible
> game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.
>
> But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
> would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest 
> congressman
> for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or 
> move,
> actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be 
> marketed to
> me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
> Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
> else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but 
> you're
> right John, we are doing a lot.
>
> Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and 
> say,
> we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
> it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol
>
> Thanks
> Robert Florio
> www.RobertFlorio.com <http://www.RobertFlorio.com>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org 
> <mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org> 
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org 
> <mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org>]
> On Behalf Of John Bannick
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
> To: games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Folks,
>
> There is a middle way.
> ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
> Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
> Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
>
> The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at
> least attempted ADA compliance.
> For example, applying VPAT
> (http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
> /)
> and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.
>
> Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
> One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made
> deaf-accessible.
> Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch
> accessible.
> (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)
>
> Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature
> of the game.
> Reasonable could also include economic viability.
>
> Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific
> remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by
> definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not
> requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.
>
> What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into
> the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.
>
> Robert's anger is understandable.
> And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that
> could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price
> controls.
> But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to
> games.
>
> Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.
>
> In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of
> Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in
> the developer community.
> Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
> Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of
> the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
> It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>   

-- 
*Sheri Rubin*
CEO and Founder

*Design Direct Deliver*
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com <http://www.designdirectdeliver.com>
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
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From chuck at vtreellc.com  Sun Feb 28 01:46:51 2010
From: chuck at vtreellc.com (Chuck)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:46:51 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>

No offense, but I know about "Ablegamers" review and it generated not "1" 
purchase. So again I ask YOU and the rest of your group 'WHAT IS IT YOU 
WANT"  When someone puts their money where their mouth is and does 
everything they can to bring video gaming to individuals with special needs 
"WHERE IS YOUR GROUP" to support this product???? PLEASE ANSWER THIS 
QUESTIONS??????  NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THIS PRODUCT. PROVE ME WRONG 


----------------------------------------

From: "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:27 AM
To: Chuck at vtreellc.com, games_access at igda.org
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony 

I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6 
months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was 
mentioned:
  ---- Original message ----

>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500
>From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's Guide  
>To: <inrnette at aol.com>, "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" 
<games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hi Josh,
>
>AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here
>http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could
-
>not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.  He
>personally worked with the creators.  
>
>Steve Spohn
Sheri

Chuck wrote: 
Hi all.

 I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????

1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????

  The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game as 
accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF YOU 
HAVE PURCHASED IT

2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching about 
main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a game, none 
of you have said 1 word about it.

Here's the long and short of it.

 I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most part 
outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game 
developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME" 
which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with 
what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.

So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is doing 
more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group 
because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO 
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to 
"ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.

I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR EMAIL'S 
BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR MONEY TO 
ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS

Sincerely,
Chuck Bergen
President
VTree LLC

----------------------------------------

cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony 

Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play? 
I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group. 
Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for 
it. 
Robert 
  

----------------------------------------

From:  games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] 
On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony 
  

universal design?

some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with 
disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop 
until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all 
kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

hugs 

  
~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD  
  
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  

This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and 
privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are 
not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) 
you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error 
and that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it 
or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in 
error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments 
and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707 . 

  

  

----------------------------------------

From:  Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special 
interest
group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand 
the
struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans 
broadcast
live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an 
accessible
game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest 
congressman
for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or 
move,
actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed 
to
me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but 
you're
right John, we are doing a lot.

Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and 
say,
we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

Thanks
Robert Florio
www.RobertFlorio.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Folks,

There is a middle way.
ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
least attempted ADA compliance.
For example, applying VPAT 
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat

/) 
and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
deaf-accessible.
Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
accessible.
(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
of the game.
Reasonable could also include economic viability.

Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

Robert's anger is understandable.
And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
controls.
But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
games.

Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
the developer community.
Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

John
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 
  

----------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

-- 
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com

 
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From foreversublime at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 28 02:33:04 2010
From: foreversublime at hotmail.com (Matt Troup)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:33:04 -0800
Subject: [games_access] Chuck's new thread
In-Reply-To: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
References: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
Message-ID: <BAY134-DS6DE8528BCDF2FE9BDA9AFD93D0@phx.gbl>

1. What is it I want?  A game that interests me. . . usually not a football game.  If it is a football game, here are the three I've found interesting, only one of which I bought new, and none of which I now own:

Super Tecmo Bowl
Mutant League Football
Blitz

I think a lot of similarities can be drawn between those 3 football games that are different than most.  As a non-core-market football game non-purchaser, my opinion on what type of football game matters that much less, especially after the game has been developed.

2. I'll support (purchase or share) a product if I like it or if someone else would benefit from knowing of it.  I have no agenda, as a member of this mailing list, to support every or any accessible product.  Nor do I believe anyone on this mailing list has the agenda to support one another with blind faith.

3. If it's any consolation, I don't believe I've purchased any games this year. . . because all of my money is going where my mouth is.  Game dev.

Aside: I didn't understand this was an actual/outside product until Sheri's response.  The title of the game is awkward.  I saw the thread long ago, and thought it was a game Steve Spohn made because in the email he wrote he said there was a review of "My Football Game".  Really uninteresting name to begin with.  Regardless, for me to have purchased it I would have had to of known it was a product for purchase.  I'm not sure if there was any pre-launch PR circulated from vtree to this mailing list.  If there was, I didn't notice it.

I've tried to keep these comments as on-point as possible.  I have plenty of countering comments, but that's not what was asked.


From: Chuck 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:46 PM
To: Sheri Rubin ; games_access at igda.org 
Cc: chuck at vtreellc.com 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony


No offense, but I know about "Ablegamers" review and it generated not "1" purchase. So again I ask YOU and the rest of your group 'WHAT IS IT YOU WANT"  When someone puts their money where their mouth is and does everything they can to bring video gaming to individuals with special needs "WHERE IS YOUR GROUP" to support this product???? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTIONS?????? NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THIS PRODUCT. PROVE ME WRONG




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:27 AM
To: Chuck at vtreellc.com, games_access at igda.org
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6 months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was mentioned:

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500
>From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's Guide  
>To: <inrnette at aol.com>, "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hi Josh,
>
>AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here
>http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could-
>not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.  He
>personally worked with the creators.  
>
>Steve Spohn
Sheri


Chuck wrote: 
  Hi all.

   I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????

  1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????

    The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game as accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED IT

  2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching about main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a game, none of you have said 1 word about it.


  Here's the long and short of it.


   I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most part outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME" which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.


  So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is doing more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to "ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.

  I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR EMAIL'S BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR MONEY TO ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS

  Sincerely,
  Chuck Bergen
  President
  VTree LLC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony


  Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play?

  I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.

  Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for it.

  Robert




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
  To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony



  universal design?

  some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

  hugs



  ~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD





  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

  This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.








------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
  To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
  Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

  Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
  frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
  group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
  Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
  should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

  I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
  struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
  president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
  live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

  To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
  issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
  was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
  game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

  But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
  would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
  for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
  actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
  me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
  Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
  else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but you're
  right John, we are doing a lot.

  Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
  we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
  it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

  Thanks
  Robert Florio
  www.RobertFlorio.com 



  -----Original Message-----
  From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
  On Behalf Of John Bannick
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
  To: games_access at igda.org
  Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

  Folks,

  There is a middle way.
  ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
  Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
  Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

  The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
  least attempted ADA compliance.
  For example, applying VPAT 
  (http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
  /) 
  and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

  Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
  One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
  deaf-accessible.
  Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
  accessible.
  (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

  Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
  of the game.
  Reasonable could also include economic viability.

  Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
  remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
  definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
  requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

  What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
  the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

  Robert's anger is understandable.
  And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
  could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
  controls.
  But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
  games.

  Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

  In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
  Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
  the developer community.
  Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
  Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
  the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
  It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

  John
  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  

-- 
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 05:33:22 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:33:22 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
References: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
Message-ID: <04D438897D6842788531B049D191FBBD@OneSwitchPC>

Hi Chuck,

I think we have failed to back up your game at the GASIG, so personally, I'm very sorry for that. When I first became aware of the story, it was through AbleGamers being all over it. Perhaps at the time I was in a state of mind to feel that they had covered it well enough, and that I didn't want to be accused of pinching their story. That sounds silly now I realise.

>From a personal stand-point, I do spend a fair bit of money buying controllers and games that are deemed to be accessible. Coming from the UK where there is little interest in American Football, unsurprisingly the game is just not my cup of tea. If it had a one-switch mode I'd most likely have bought it though. Maybe a few complimentary review / demo copies would have seen you receive extra support? None of us are getting paid for our GASIG efforts, so our time given is for our belief in wanting to see more accessible games out there. We don't always get it right.

As you will hopefully recall, I did e-mail you with interest about your My Golf game, with some straight-forward accessibility ideas that would improve things. Despite what you may think this is support. The various web-sites out there are support (http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/07/game-accessibility-sites.html). The mailing list does help to get info out there. Support isn't solely financial.

Looking at your site again (http://www.vtreellc.com/) My Football Game does sound like it has some really good accessibility features. Maybe "everyone can play" is a bit of a steep claim, but nonetheless you've obviously made some huge efforts. Again, I don't think we've supported you as well as we should have.

Why not contact SpecialEffect's GameBase (www.gamebase.info) which didn't exist when you were first promoting your game? I'm sure they would support you (especially if you'd send them a free trial copy) and likely knock up a YouTube video as well if you asked them which you could use on-site?

Like AbleGamers, I can't guarantee any sales, but I'd be happy to review a copy at the GASIG Blog. I really hope that you're not too disheartened with the field of Game Accessibility, as people like you are making a real difference. Maybe though if you'd written that you'd appreciate some extra help, you'd have got it earlier?

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk










From: Chuck 
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:46 AM
To: Sheri Rubin ; games_access at igda.org 
Cc: chuck at vtreellc.com 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony


No offense, but I know about "Ablegamers" review and it generated not "1" purchase. So again I ask YOU and the rest of your group 'WHAT IS IT YOU WANT"  When someone puts their money where their mouth is and does everything they can to bring video gaming to individuals with special needs "WHERE IS YOUR GROUP" to support this product???? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTIONS?????? NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THIS PRODUCT. PROVE ME WRONG




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:27 AM
To: Chuck at vtreellc.com, games_access at igda.org
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6 months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was mentioned:

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500
>From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's Guide  
>To: <inrnette at aol.com>, "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Hi Josh,
>
>AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here
>http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could-
>not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.  He
>personally worked with the creators.  
>
>Steve Spohn
Sheri


Chuck wrote: 
  Hi all.

   I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????

  1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????

    The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game as accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED IT

  2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching about main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a game, none of you have said 1 word about it.


  Here's the long and short of it.


   I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most part outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME" which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.


  So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is doing more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to "ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.

  I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR EMAIL'S BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR MONEY TO ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS

  Sincerely,
  Chuck Bergen
  President
  VTree LLC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony


  Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play?

  I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.

  Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for it.

  Robert




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
  To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony



  universal design?

  some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all kinds of abilities will enjoy!  

  hugs



  ~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD





  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

  This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.








------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
  To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
  Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

  Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
  frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
  group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
  Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
  should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.

  I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
  struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
  president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
  live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.

  To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
  issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
  was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
  game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.

  But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
  would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
  for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
  actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
  me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
  Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
  else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but you're
  right John, we are doing a lot.

  Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
  we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
  it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol

  Thanks
  Robert Florio
  www.RobertFlorio.com 



  -----Original Message-----
  From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
  On Behalf Of John Bannick
  Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
  To: games_access at igda.org
  Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

  Folks,

  There is a middle way.
  ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
  Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
  Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.

  The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at 
  least attempted ADA compliance.
  For example, applying VPAT 
  (http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
  /) 
  and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.

  Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
  One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
  deaf-accessible.
  Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch 
  accessible.
  (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)

  Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature 
  of the game.
  Reasonable could also include economic viability.

  Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific 
  remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by 
  definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not 
  requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.

  What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into 
  the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.

  Robert's anger is understandable.
  And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that 
  could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price 
  controls.
  But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to 
  games.

  Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.

  In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
  Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in 
  the developer community.
  Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
  Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of 
  the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
  It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.

  John
  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  

-- 
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
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From mark at ablegamers.com  Sun Feb 28 11:01:04 2010
From: mark at ablegamers.com (Mark Barlet)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:01:04 -0500
Subject: [games_access] I'm out - enjoy the quilting bee.
Message-ID: <191870b71002280801u5a026663pc14328cc96b0dc53@mail.gmail.com>

Barrie, I think Chuck has hit it right on the head. If I recall even
John Bannick a few months ago pointed out the need to support these
makers of games, and called out My Football Game in his example of
SUPPORTING THOSE THAT ARE DOING. It is only when someone calls this
group in it that a people spin into action.

Frankly, this group has taken the wins of AbleGamers and chastised us
for our "approach" and "tactics" and yet I dare say that the rag tag
team over at AbleGamers had more collective "wins" for accessibility
in 2009 than this group has had in 8 years? This group is still
shopping the same GDC talks that they gave 5 years ago. Hell one of
them is talking about wins in a mainstream game that you can now
download for free because it is so old.

When I joined this group a few years ago I thought I had reached into
a team that was really working towards a cause, a cause that is real
to me because I am disabled, my best friends are disabled, my sister
is disabled, but I quickly realized that it was every man for himself,
and the only cause was sitting around talking about things and shit on
people that are doing something about game accessibility that really
changed peoples lives. I was told not to post my shit to this group
while others were linkbombing the crap out of the list. AbleGamers was
writing original content, developer interviews, and so on, while the
rest of you were talking about how great it would be if we could talk
to developers. I know of only 4 people on this list that are even
member of AbleGamers. Hell some of the people on this list have
actively been trying to destroy AbleGamers (they know who they are).
so to me a few of you have "credibility issues" when it comes to game
accessibility.

Want an example of a GA-SIG FAIL? I asked this group the other day
what questions you would want answered if I posted it to 60 to 80
people working with games in health care. You know how many questions
I got? NOT ONE. In all this group of people that "care" for game
accessibility not one. (I know that some on this group will be some of
those pros at Game Accessibility Day, but many will not) So I can
understand Chuck's frustration.

So I say all that to say this... I am going to leave this SIG, it is a
waste of time, and time is something I frankly do not have a lot of
given that AbleGamers is busy advancing game accessibility and not
sitting around and talking about it. I have Game Accessibility Day to
prep for and Games for Health and the LAUNCH of the AbleGamers
Foundation Accessibility HUB in Chicago in June, a white paper 7-128
and AbleGamers is producing to proof and add my part to, oh and I have
a full time job that has nothing to do with any of this!

If there is anyone who really gives a crap about game accessibility
needs me, you know where I am. I think that I have proven that time
and time again that i am for the cause. Self promoter, you bet, proud
of what The AbleGamers Foundation is doing, hell yah!

I know many people personally from this group, John, Barrie, Brian,
Nat, Dr. Flynn (not sure your new last name), in fact all of you are
welcome to keep knowing me and I look forward to still working with
you, but this list is a waste of time.

You are welcome to visit and participate in
http://www.gameaccessibility.org (I set the site up for the SIG, but
none of you came to help, so AGF just took it) or
http://www.ablegamers.com and even the new Serious Games site we are
going to be launching soon.

Mark Barlet
President and CEO
The AbleGamers Foundation

mark at ablegamers.com

-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates
for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org


From javier.mairena at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 11:28:40 2010
From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:28:40 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
References: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
Message-ID: <b900ac551002280828w3ec30478k67c934ab308cc822@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chuck,

Were are not here to support economically a product, this is a small e-mail
list, if all of we buy the game you still have the same problem.

We are here for some other reasons like show works like this game in ours
webs, like ablegamers did, and then maybe readers will by it.

We are also to work in other ways to make accessibility grow in videogames,
with so simple things like saying people that it is possible. There a lot of
developers that never think about accessibility, and a lot of disabled
people that dont know that your game exist, also disabled people that dont
know ours webs exist.

In my personal spanish (www.videojuegosaccesibles.es) web I dont make money,
and I spend time doing articles for free, the only way i can help you is
writting about your game but I'm sorry I can't spend 40$ on it of my own
money now. Send me a Demo version or something like that to try it, if you
want.

Greetings.
Javier Mairena.




2010/2/28 Chuck <chuck at vtreellc.com>

> No offense, but I know about "Ablegamers" review and it generated *not "1"
> purchase.* So again I ask YOU and the rest of your group 'WHAT IS IT YOU
> WANT"  When someone puts their money where their mouth is and does
> everything they can to bring video gaming to individuals with special needs
> "WHERE IS YOUR GROUP" to support this product???? PLEASE ANSWER THIS
> QUESTIONS??????* NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THIS PRODUCT. PROVE ME
> WRONG
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
> *Sent*: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:27 AM
> *To*: Chuck at vtreellc.com, games_access at igda.org
>
> *Subject*: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>
> I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6
> months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was
> mentioned:
>
> ---- Original message ----
>
> >Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500>From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com> <steve at ablegamers.com>  >Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's Guide  >To: <inrnette at aol.com> <inrnette at aol.com>, "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org> <games_access at igda.org>>>Hi Josh,>>AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here>http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could->not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.  He>personally worked with the creators.  >>Steve Spohn
>
>
> Sheri
>
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
>  I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????
>
> 1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????
>
>   The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this game as
> accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF YOU
> HAVE PURCHASED IT
>
> 2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or bitching about
> main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop a game, none
> of you have said 1 word about it.
>
>
> Here's the long and short of it.
>
>
>  I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most part
> outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game
> developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME"
> which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with
> what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.
>
>
> So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is doing
> more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group
> because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO
> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to
> "ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.
>
> I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR EMAIL'S
> BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR MONEY TO
> ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS
>
> Sincerely,
> Chuck Bergen
> President
> VTree LLC
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>  Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into play?
>
> I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.
>
> Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the energy for
> it.
>
> Robert
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* games_access-bounces at igda.org [
> mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org <games_access-bounces at igda.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *sheryl Flynn
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
> *To:* IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
>
>
> universal design?
>
> some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks with
> disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't stop
> until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with all
> kinds of abilities will enjoy!
>
> hugs
>
>
>
> *~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD*
>
>
>
>
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: *
>
> This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information for the use of the designated recipients. If you are
> not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) you
> are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and
> that any review,disclosure, dissemination,distribution or copying of it or
> its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in
> error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments
> and contact the sender by reply e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com> <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
> *To:* IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org><games_access at igda.org>
> *Sent:* Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
> frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special interest
> group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called Robert
> Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now there
> should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.
>
> I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we understand the
> struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like what
> president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans broadcast
> live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.
>
> To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or economic
> issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like John
> was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an accessible
> game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I guess.
>
> But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human being
> would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest congressman
> for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear or move,
> actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be marketed to
> me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common sense?
> Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no one
> else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions but
> you're
> right John, we are doing a lot.
>
> Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and say,
> we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything about
> it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol
>
> Thanks
> Robert Florio
> www.RobertFlorio.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of John Bannick
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Folks,
>
> There is a middle way.
> ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
> Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
> Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
>
> The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program that at
> least attempted ADA compliance.
> For example, applying VPAT
> (
> http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
> /)
> and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.
>
> Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made blind-accessible.
> One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made
> deaf-accessible.
> Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made one-switch
> accessible.
> (Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)
>
> Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the nature
> of the game.
> Reasonable could also include economic viability.
>
> Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a specific
> remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable, then by
> definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those not
> requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.
>
> What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue into
> the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.
>
> Robert's anger is understandable.
> And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything that
> could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were price
> controls.
> But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied to
> games.
>
> Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.
>
> In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of
> Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference in
> the developer community.
> Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
> Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and some of
> the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
> It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing listgames_access at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> --
> *Sheri Rubin*
> CEO and Founder
>
> *Design Direct Deliver*
> Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
> Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sun Feb 28 12:19:32 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:19:32 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Marketing, and PR Support
In-Reply-To: <04D438897D6842788531B049D191FBBD@OneSwitchPC>
References: <134696c6$5239e95d$3036a4d1$@com>
	<04D438897D6842788531B049D191FBBD@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <005a01cab89a$31c922a0$955b67e0$@de>

Hi,

Oh I did not saw that there was the question for support in PR and
Marketing.
I can give you the contact data for the person who organize "Silver Gaming"
in Germany.
In the next meeting (April) they plan to show some senior friendly games.
So people can try it out. One of the biggest question often is: Where do I
find senior friendly games?
This is often a big problem with serious games. Where do I find a game, that
I am looking for.

I have also another contact who is looking for senior friendly games for his
game event.
I also would like to try it out and write about it. But study is expensive,
so I cannot buy it :-(
I tried to write about it, but it was too difficult. I can only write when I
know something very well.

There is also the possibility to present the game as game accessibility
example.
On my list are only game over, terrestrial invaders and some audiogames.

There is also the possibility to ask the IGDA if they are interested in an
article for the newsletter.
www.makinggames.de is also looking for interesting articles about games.
Did you contact someone from eSport? I can give you also my eSport contact.
They are always looking for new type of games.
Games for Health Conference could also be very interesting.

I do not know much about this and about the condition, but sometimes free
copies are available on conferences.
I will go to the serious games conferences (on the Cebit next week). At the
last silver gaming conference, a company also used it to present the games
with free copies. Maybe that would also be useful? Ask for allowance and
give someone who goes to a conference some free copies.

Best regards,
Sandra


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Barrie Ellis
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Februar 2010 11:33
An: Chuck at vtreellc.com; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Hi Chuck,
 
I think we have failed to back up your game at the GASIG, so personally, I'm
very sorry for that. When I first became aware of the story, it was through
AbleGamers being all over it. Perhaps at the time I was in a state of mind
to feel that they had covered it well enough, and that I didn't want to be
accused of pinching their story. That sounds silly now I realise.
 
>From a personal stand-point, I do spend a fair bit of money buying
controllers and games that are deemed to be accessible. Coming from the UK
where there is little interest in American Football, unsurprisingly the game
is just not my cup of tea. If it had a one-switch mode I'd most likely have
bought it though. Maybe a few complimentary review / demo copies would have
seen you receive extra support? None of us are getting paid for our GASIG
efforts, so our time given is for our belief in wanting to see more
accessible games out there. We don't always get it right.
 
As you will hopefully recall, I did e-mail you with interest about your My
Golf game, with some straight-forward accessibility ideas that would improve
things. Despite what you may think this is support. The various web-sites
out there are support
(http://switchgaming.blogspot.com/2009/07/game-accessibility-sites.html).
The mailing list does help to get info out there. Support isn't solely
financial.
 
Looking at your site again (http://www.vtreellc.com/
<http://www.vtreellc.com/> ) My Football Game does sound like it has some
really good accessibility features. Maybe "everyone can play" is a bit of a
steep claim, but nonetheless you've obviously made some huge efforts. Again,
I don't think we've supported you as well as we should have.
 
Why not contact SpecialEffect's GameBase (www.gamebase.info) which didn't
exist when you were first promoting your game? I'm sure they would support
you (especially if you'd send them a free trial copy) and likely knock up a
YouTube video as well if you asked them which you could use on-site?
 
Like AbleGamers, I can't guarantee any sales, but I'd be happy to review a
copy at the GASIG Blog. I really hope that you're not too disheartened with
the field of Game Accessibility, as people like you are making a real
difference. Maybe though if you'd written that you'd appreciate some extra
help, you'd have got it earlier?
 
Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Chuck <mailto:chuck at vtreellc.com>  
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:46 AM
To: Sheri Rubin <mailto:sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>  ;
games_access at igda.org 
Cc: chuck at vtreellc.com 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

No offense, but I know about "Ablegamers" review and it generated not "1"
purchase. So again I ask YOU and the rest of your group 'WHAT IS IT YOU
WANT"  When someone puts their money where their mouth is and does
everything they can to bring video gaming to individuals with special needs
"WHERE IS YOUR GROUP" to support this product???? PLEASE ANSWER THIS
QUESTIONS?????? NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE PURCHASED THIS PRODUCT. PROVE ME WRONG




________________________________

From: "Sheri Rubin" <sheri at designdirectdeliver.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:27 AM
To: Chuck at vtreellc.com, games_access at igda.org
Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

I can't say anything about purchasing but if you have been on here for 6
months you will notice that in December the "review" on AbleGamers was
mentioned:

---- Original message ----


	>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0500
	>From: "Steven Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>
<mailto:steve at ablegamers.com>   
	>Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Informer - Accessibility Buyer's
Guide  
	>To: <inrnette at aol.com> <mailto:inrnette at aol.com> , "'IGDA Games
Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
<mailto:games_access at igda.org> 
	>
	>Hi Josh,
	>
	>AbleGamers did a exclusive on the game which you can see here
	
>http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/my-football-game-and-they-said-it-could
-
	>not-be-done.html - if you need more specifics email Mark Barlet.
He
	>personally worked with the creators.  
	>
	>Steve Spohn


Sheri


Chuck wrote: 

	Hi all.
	
	 I am not part of your group. but I do have a few questions????
	
	1. Have any of you purchased My Football Game????
	
	  The reason I asked is that I have invested 600K in making this
game as accessible as any game ever developed and to my knowledge NOT ONE OF
YOU HAVE PURCHASED IT
	
	2. You all love to write these email's either complaining or
bitching about main stream developers but yet when they (EA & Vtree) develop
a game, none of you have said 1 word about it.
	
	
	Here's the long and short of it.
	
	
	 I have been reading your emails for 6 months now and for the most
part outside of reading you bullshit emails complaining about video game
developers NOT ONE ONE OF YOU have purchased or reviewed "MY FOOTBALL GAME"
which is by far and away a video game with everything designed into it with
what"YOU GUYS" complain about that main stream developers don't do.
	
	
	So "IF YOU GUYS WON'T SPEND 40.00 BUCKS to support a company that is
doing more than "WHAT YOU ARE DOING" shut the hell up and disband this group
because besides writing "EMAILS" complaining about developers you guys "DO
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to support the people who are spending their money to
"ACTUALLY HELP" special needs individuals to enjoy video gaming.
	
	I DARE ONE OF YOU TO DISPUTE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE. YOU LOVE YOUR
EMAIL'S BUT DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SPENDING THEIR
MONEY TO ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS
	
	Sincerely,
	Chuck Bergen
	President
	VTree LLC
	
________________________________




	cess] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
	
	

	Maybe it's time for my petition that I wrote to finally be put into
play?

	I've always wanted to bring that back in  to this group.

	Now that it's heated again at least in me, LOL, I might have the
energy for it.

	Robert

	 

	
________________________________


	From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of sheryl Flynn
	Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:37 PM
	To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
	Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

	 

	universal design?
	
	some of us are trying really hard to make great games that folks
with disabilities will enjoy...its hard, but we are passionate and won't
stop until there is a world wide effort to make great games that folks with
all kinds of abilities will enjoy!  
	
	hugs

	 

	~Sheryl Flynn PT, PhD

	 

	 

	CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
	
	This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain
confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, (or authorized to receive
for the recipient) you are hereby notified that you have received this
communication in error and that any review,disclosure,
dissemination,distribution or copying of it or its contents is prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please destroy all copies
of this communication and any attachments and contact the sender by reply
e-mail or telephone 310.913.5707.
	
	

	 

	 

	
________________________________


	From: Robert Florio <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>
<mailto:arthit73 at cablespeed.com> 
	To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
<games_access at igda.org> <mailto:games_access at igda.org> 
	Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:07:25 PM
	Subject: Re: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
	
	Thanks John and Janet I agree with what you guys say.  It's just
	frustrating.  From the years I have been involved with the special
interest
	group, with Michelle, creating my documentary I created called
Robert
	Florio: a New Way to Live, my game design degree, I think by now
there
	should be a wide range knowledge meant by developers and producers.
	
	I think if they would at least come out publicly and say, we
understand the
	struggle, we are humans too, and maybe created like a summit like
what
	president of vomited the other day with Democrats and Republicans
broadcast
	live for six hours for the health-care bill.  That's just an idea.
	
	To me it is a philosophical issue now not anymore a technical or
economic
	issue.  Believe me I know the technical and economic problems.  Like
John
	was saying, we wouldn't be profitable for a developer to make an
accessible
	game, denying it to the people who already buy the game in a way I
guess.
	
	But I believe the issue is, philosophical. I don't think any human
being
	would deny the fact that videogames are in the world's greatest
congressman
	for entertaining our physical needs. If I can see, if I can't hear
or move,
	actually I can't move a lot, that does not mean it shouldn't be
marketed to
	me.  Why is it we are so far away from people actually using common
sense?
	Is this part of humanity completely gone? Why is it we get it but no
one
	else does?  In any answers, I shouldn't be grasping for questions
but you're
	right John, we are doing a lot.
	
	Reiterating, I just want the big names, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft,
and say,
	we hear you loud and clear.  Then what?  Then they don't do anything
about
	it that would look bad maybe that's why they came admit it.lol
	
	Thanks
	Robert Florio
	www.RobertFlorio.com 
	
	
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
	On Behalf Of John Bannick
	Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:30 PM
	To: games_access at igda.org
	Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
	
	Folks,
	
	There is a middle way.
	ADA requires "reasonable accommodation"
	Some games cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
	Just as some jobs cannot be made accessible to a particular need.
	
	The judge could have required that Sony put into place a program
that at 
	least attempted ADA compliance.
	For example, applying VPAT 
	
(http://www.itic.org/resources/voluntary-product-accessibility-template-vpat
	/) 
	and explaining why items were not VPAT compliant.
	
	Thus, a spelling bee game could not reasonably be made
blind-accessible.
	One of Jim Kitchen's audio games could not reasonably be made 
	deaf-accessible.
	Nor could a musical game requiring chords reasonably be made
one-switch 
	accessible.
	(Forgive me Barrie, Mark, etc. if it's been done.)
	
	Reasonable meaning without major changes, possibly changing the
nature 
	of the game.
	Reasonable could also include economic viability.
	
	Furthermore, and significantly, If adding ADA compliance, or a
specific 
	remediation, would add cost such as to make a game unprofitable,
then by 
	definition it is not reasonable, in that it denies the game to those
not 
	requiring that accommodation. Mark's point exactly, I think.
	
	What that requirement would do is inject the accessibility issue
into 
	the developers' business process. Not a bad thing.
	
	Robert's anger is understandable.
	And I'm leery of government intervention, especially in anything
that 
	could be close to censorship, or is economically unviable, as were
price 
	controls.
	But VPAT's being applied to general software; ESRB is being applied
to 
	games.
	
	Perhaps the judge could have applied a middle way.
	
	In any event, what this SIG is doing, and the individual efforts of 
	Mark, Barrie, Brian, Dark, Robert, and others is making a difference
in 
	the developer community.
	Developers, some at least, are more aware of accessibility needs.
	Some are actually making specific changes (Niels Bauer games and
some of 
	the folks Mark and Barrie work with come to mind.)
	It ain't perfect; it ain't enough. But it is progress.
	
	John
	_______________________________________________
	games_access mailing list
	games_access at igda.org
	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
	
	
	_______________________________________________
	games_access mailing list
	games_access at igda.org
	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

	 


	
________________________________


	_______________________________________________
	games_access mailing list
	games_access at igda.org
	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
	  


-- 
Sheri Rubin
CEO and Founder

Design Direct Deliver
Website: www.designdirectdeliver.com
Email: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com



________________________________

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access




From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 13:24:22 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:24:22 -0000
Subject: [games_access] ....and relax...
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002280801u5a026663pc14328cc96b0dc53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <191870b71002280801u5a026663pc14328cc96b0dc53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67A0B74EA02E49E29D92279328E97BAD@OneSwitchPC>

Sad to see this list taking a bashing which seems so unnecessary. I don't 
want to get into flame-war nonsense as I feel completely secure with the 
contributions made by the GASIG. No we're not as organised as we used to be, 
but this e-mail list second to none in this field. I personally expect to 
see this list continue to share positive news and continue to feed into the 
Accessible Gaming movement.

I think we should perhaps show more pride in the IGDA GASIG SIG badge as 
it's the only organisation that brings so many of us together. If we could 
see this as an Umbrella organisation, our collective efforts are pretty damn 
impressive. Sad that the bitterness at AbleGamers is leading to Mark 
excluding them from this unity, as I personally would want all people with a 
passion for the movement included. We just need to be decent to one another 
and also not expect miracles (but not loose hope for them either).

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk







 



From oneswitch at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 13:36:41 2010
From: oneswitch at googlemail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:36:41 -0000
Subject: [games_access] New Universal-Controller (Sony?)
In-Reply-To: <001501cab3d1$90053e80$b00fbb80$@de>
References: <001501cab3d1$90053e80$b00fbb80$@de>
Message-ID: <07B58068878740CFAE3342C7CC974733@OneSwitchPC>

Trailing through my lardy back-log of e-mails. Very interesting find, Sandra 
re. the Universal controller.  Bit of a holy grail this, but do you think 
this is going to allow people to play most games, or is it more likely to be 
a universal remote control mainly aimed at being a multi-media controller 
(TV, audio, video)?

I wonder...

Barrie


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:13 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] New Universal-Controller (Sony?)

> Hello all,
>
> short translation by me:
> Is Sony working on an universal controller?
> Sony "submitted" a patent for an universal controller. They are working on 
> a
> controller
> That supports all "current" consoles: PS3, Xbox360, Wii, certain classic
> controller.
> Connection will be with cable and wireless. The configuration can be made 
> by
> a "touchscreen".
> It can be added with Force Feedback and loud speaker.
>
>
>
>
> Arbeitet Sony am Universal-Controller?
> Sony arbeitet offenbar an einem speziellen Controller f?r Kunden, die mehr
> als nur eine Konsole besitzen. US-Medien zufolge hat der Konzern beim
> US-Patentamt Unterlagen f?r einen Universal-Controller eingereicht. 
> Demnach
> arbeitet Sony an einem Controller, der die Steuerung von Spielen auf allen
> g?ngigen Konsolen erm?glichen soll. Multiplattform-Gamer m?ssten so nicht
> mehr mit mehreren Eingabeger?ten hantieren.
>
> Das Ger?t soll neben PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 und Wii auch die Steuerung
> ausgesuchter klassischer Konsole erm?glichen. Den Berichten zufolge wird
> Sonys Universal-Controller sowohl via Funk als ?ber Kabel die Verbindung 
> zur
> Konsole suchen. Die Einstellungen werden ?ber einen 
> ber?hrungsempfindlichen
> LCD-Bildschirm vorgenommen. Force Feedback und Lautsprecher k?nnen demnach
> nachger?stet werden. Die Eingabe beim Patentamt ist nicht gleichbedeutend
> mit einer bevorstehenden Ver?ffentlichung. Bis auf die technischen
> Grunddaten ist dann auch nicht viel bekannt. Preis, Name und ein m?glicher
> Ver?ffentlichungstermin bleiben zun?chst Geheimnis von Sony.
>
> Source/Quelle: www.gamesmarkt.de
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access 



From jbannick at 7128.com  Sun Feb 28 14:03:39 2010
From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:03:39 -0500
Subject: [games_access]  Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
Message-ID: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>

Chuck,

As an independent developer of games that are accessible, I "feel your 
pain."
We've (7-128 Software) been offering games that are accessible to blind, 
motion-impaired, or deaf gamers for several years now.
We do sell some.
But not a lot.

Our blind colleagues over on audyssey.org report the same results.
Some sales. But not a lot.

That being said, I think it's due to our weak marketing.
Something we're working on this year.

As to purchases of your game:

1. This SIG has relatively few, though influential, members.
Industry studies indicate that it takes about 100 "contacts" to generate 
1 sale.

2. Despite your connection with EA (congrats, by the way) we've never 
heard of you.
No offense meant. Just a fact.
And that's right after completing our annual survey of Web sites for 
gamers who have special needs.
I just now Googled "accessible computer games"
We came up on page 1. We're tiny.
DanZ came up on page 1. He's out of business.
You didn't come up in the 1st 10 pages.
I never saw your review on Mark's site. (Sorry, Mark)
Nor your ad in Parenting.
Nor your review in AT News.
Again, no diss meant. Just the facts.

3. Not everyone plays sports games.
Me for instance.
(I like mystery games.)

It seems unreasonable to expect sales to a small group of people who 
likely have never heard of your game, and may or may not play sports games.

However, your frustration is understandable, and shared by us indie 
developers of games that are accessible.
My personal response to that frustration is to try to do a better job of 
marketing and to support groups such as this SIG and sites like Mark's 
and Barrie's, and individual efforts like Robert's and Sandra's to make 
people aware of the issue.

To that end, we're adding your Web site to our Top 25 Web Sites for 
Gamers who are Motion Impaired - 2010, as a Site to Watch.
Not a fantastic help, but we do distribute it to MI-related groups and 
publicity never hurts.

John Bannick
CTO
www.7128.com






From jbannick at 7128.com  Sun Feb 28 14:26:35 2010
From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:26:35 -0500
Subject: [games_access]  I'm out - enjoy the quilting bee.
Message-ID: <4B8AC36B.7010406@7128.com>

Mark,

Actually, it was Niels Bauer games that I mentioned as a company 
responding to accessibility needs.

jhb


From brian at gamefwd.org  Sun Feb 28 14:28:40 2010
From: brian at gamefwd.org (Brian J. Papineau)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:28:40 -0500
Subject: [games_access] New Universal-Controller (Sony?)
In-Reply-To: <07B58068878740CFAE3342C7CC974733@OneSwitchPC>
References: <001501cab3d1$90053e80$b00fbb80$@de>
	<07B58068878740CFAE3342C7CC974733@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <cb8c8d31002281128k6442f531q9940d77cc316391b@mail.gmail.com>

I was interested in this when I first saw someone at NeoGaf post the patent,
but it appears that it'll literally emulate classic controllers on a blank
touchscreen. If it's anything like the virtual d-pad control schemes on the
iPhone I've tried to deal with it, it will really tough for people like me
with even mild motion impairment to use because of the lack of tactile
feedback.

I'd love to see a modular approach, similar to the Access Controller that
used real buttons and sticks/d-pads that could be reconfigured. At the very
least, I think it would need a click screen like that BlackBerry that failed
a little while back. Here's a link to the patent and a Kotaku'd summary.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20100041480.PGNR.&OS=dn/20100041480&RS=DN/20100041480

http://kotaku.com/5475448/sony-files-patent-for-universal-controller

Brian J. Papineau

Editor-in-Chief > Administrator
Game Forward

http://gamefwd.org
brian at gamefwd.org
http://twitter.com/gamefwd


2010/2/28 Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at googlemail.com>

> Trailing through my lardy back-log of e-mails. Very interesting find,
> Sandra re. the Universal controller.  Bit of a holy grail this, but do you
> think this is going to allow people to play most games, or is it more likely
> to be a universal remote control mainly aimed at being a multi-media
> controller (TV, audio, video)?
>
> I wonder...
>
> Barrie
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:13 PM
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access] New Universal-Controller (Sony?)
>
>  Hello all,
>>
>> short translation by me:
>> Is Sony working on an universal controller?
>> Sony "submitted" a patent for an universal controller. They are working on
>> a
>> controller
>> That supports all "current" consoles: PS3, Xbox360, Wii, certain classic
>> controller.
>> Connection will be with cable and wireless. The configuration can be made
>> by
>> a "touchscreen".
>> It can be added with Force Feedback and loud speaker.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Arbeitet Sony am Universal-Controller?
>> Sony arbeitet offenbar an einem speziellen Controller f?r Kunden, die mehr
>> als nur eine Konsole besitzen. US-Medien zufolge hat der Konzern beim
>> US-Patentamt Unterlagen f?r einen Universal-Controller eingereicht.
>> Demnach
>> arbeitet Sony an einem Controller, der die Steuerung von Spielen auf allen
>> g?ngigen Konsolen erm?glichen soll. Multiplattform-Gamer m?ssten so nicht
>> mehr mit mehreren Eingabeger?ten hantieren.
>>
>> Das Ger?t soll neben PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 und Wii auch die Steuerung
>> ausgesuchter klassischer Konsole erm?glichen. Den Berichten zufolge wird
>> Sonys Universal-Controller sowohl via Funk als ?ber Kabel die Verbindung
>> zur
>> Konsole suchen. Die Einstellungen werden ?ber einen
>> ber?hrungsempfindlichen
>> LCD-Bildschirm vorgenommen. Force Feedback und Lautsprecher k?nnen demnach
>> nachger?stet werden. Die Eingabe beim Patentamt ist nicht gleichbedeutend
>> mit einer bevorstehenden Ver?ffentlichung. Bis auf die technischen
>> Grunddaten ist dann auch nicht viel bekannt. Preis, Name und ein m?glicher
>> Ver?ffentlichungstermin bleiben zun?chst Geheimnis von Sony.
>>
>> Source/Quelle: www.gamesmarkt.de
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
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From arthit73 at cablespeed.com  Sun Feb 28 14:55:52 2010
From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:55:52 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>
References: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>
Message-ID: <F989BB23287844C99C06FF77A7FD70F9@florio57914627>

Hi John.  I don't think we ever met before but thanks for mentioning me in
your list of people trying to spread the word.  I haven't been active on
this for a while I've just been burned out I guess from graduating, not
getting a job, working my butt off in the art field and hardly selling any
artwork but anyway.  Doing all this with my mouth and then with that kind of
a disability but on the upside, I rock 'n roll all day and night.

Who web sites I couldn't find a brief paragraph describing what it is

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:04 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Chuck,

As an independent developer of games that are accessible, I "feel your 
pain."
We've (7-128 Software) been offering games that are accessible to blind, 
motion-impaired, or deaf gamers for several years now.
We do sell some.
But not a lot.

Our blind colleagues over on audyssey.org report the same results.
Some sales. But not a lot.

That being said, I think it's due to our weak marketing.
Something we're working on this year.

As to purchases of your game:

1. This SIG has relatively few, though influential, members.
Industry studies indicate that it takes about 100 "contacts" to generate 
1 sale.

2. Despite your connection with EA (congrats, by the way) we've never 
heard of you.
No offense meant. Just a fact.
And that's right after completing our annual survey of Web sites for 
gamers who have special needs.
I just now Googled "accessible computer games"
We came up on page 1. We're tiny.
DanZ came up on page 1. He's out of business.
You didn't come up in the 1st 10 pages.
I never saw your review on Mark's site. (Sorry, Mark)
Nor your ad in Parenting.
Nor your review in AT News.
Again, no diss meant. Just the facts.

3. Not everyone plays sports games.
Me for instance.
(I like mystery games.)

It seems unreasonable to expect sales to a small group of people who 
likely have never heard of your game, and may or may not play sports games.

However, your frustration is understandable, and shared by us indie 
developers of games that are accessible.
My personal response to that frustration is to try to do a better job of 
marketing and to support groups such as this SIG and sites like Mark's 
and Barrie's, and individual efforts like Robert's and Sandra's to make 
people aware of the issue.

To that end, we're adding your Web site to our Top 25 Web Sites for 
Gamers who are Motion Impaired - 2010, as a Site to Watch.
Not a fantastic help, but we do distribute it to MI-related groups and 
publicity never hurts.

John Bannick
CTO
www.7128.com




_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access




From arthit73 at cablespeed.com  Sun Feb 28 15:01:46 2010
From: arthit73 at cablespeed.com (Robert Florio)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>
References: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>
Message-ID: <1D68218EBDC5467382FD99BCF417A15D@florio57914627>

Sorry, I accidentally send my e-mail before finishing what I'm saying.

Hi John.  I don't think we ever met before but thanks for mentioning me in
your list of people trying to spread the word.  I haven't been active on
this for a while I've just been burned out I guess from graduating, not
getting a job, working my butt off in the art field and hardly selling any
artwork but anyway.  Doing all this with my mouth and then with that kind of
a disability but on the upside, I rock 'n roll all day and night.

Who web sites I couldn't find a brief paragraph describing what it is....

.... continuing!...  I could not find a section of your web site that said
the purpose of your site because I want to add it to my web site
accessibility link page. I have not added anything to my accessibility link
page in so long. If you have any list of other accessible web sites for
gaming creating games and stuff like that please let me know I can put them
on there.

I'm downloading your book now to play.  Is it only audio games for the
blind? Are you guys in Massachusetts United States?

I'm in Glen burnie Maryland United States.  30 minutes north of Washington,
DC.

This is my page for accessibility.  The rest of my web site shows my
artwork.  And I have not been doing any reviews with the quad controller
games in years.  Bad, I know. I've just been busy trying to start a career
and trying to find a girlfriend so I guess, actually I stopped playing video
games more than a year ago.  Isn't that horrible.  Time flies. I have it set
up a just don't play but I would like to.  I guess because I paint all day
my mouth takes a lot of abuse and that controller hurts my mouth.  That's
why.

http://www.robertflorio.com/Game_Accessibility.html 

That's my web site link.  Check it out.  Give me some improvements please I
can add a lot of information and links.
Robert



-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John Bannick
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:04 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony

Chuck,

As an independent developer of games that are accessible, I "feel your 
pain."
We've (7-128 Software) been offering games that are accessible to blind, 
motion-impaired, or deaf gamers for several years now.
We do sell some.
But not a lot.

Our blind colleagues over on audyssey.org report the same results.
Some sales. But not a lot.

That being said, I think it's due to our weak marketing.
Something we're working on this year.

As to purchases of your game:

1. This SIG has relatively few, though influential, members.
Industry studies indicate that it takes about 100 "contacts" to generate 
1 sale.

2. Despite your connection with EA (congrats, by the way) we've never 
heard of you.
No offense meant. Just a fact.
And that's right after completing our annual survey of Web sites for 
gamers who have special needs.
I just now Googled "accessible computer games"
We came up on page 1. We're tiny.
DanZ came up on page 1. He's out of business.
You didn't come up in the 1st 10 pages.
I never saw your review on Mark's site. (Sorry, Mark)
Nor your ad in Parenting.
Nor your review in AT News.
Again, no diss meant. Just the facts.

3. Not everyone plays sports games.
Me for instance.
(I like mystery games.)

It seems unreasonable to expect sales to a small group of people who 
likely have never heard of your game, and may or may not play sports games.

However, your frustration is understandable, and shared by us indie 
developers of games that are accessible.
My personal response to that frustration is to try to do a better job of 
marketing and to support groups such as this SIG and sites like Mark's 
and Barrie's, and individual efforts like Robert's and Sandra's to make 
people aware of the issue.

To that end, we're adding your Web site to our Top 25 Web Sites for 
Gamers who are Motion Impaired - 2010, as a Site to Watch.
Not a fantastic help, but we do distribute it to MI-related groups and 
publicity never hurts.

John Bannick
CTO
www.7128.com




_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access




From thomas at pininteractive.com  Sun Feb 28 16:06:16 2010
From: thomas at pininteractive.com (thomas at pininteractive.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:06:16 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
In-Reply-To: <1D68218EBDC5467382FD99BCF417A15D@florio57914627>
References: <4B8ABE0B.3060908@7128.com>
	<1D68218EBDC5467382FD99BCF417A15D@florio57914627>
Message-ID: <920B32A8-DDC4-495E-BB62-CCDF0814AB53@pininteractive.com>

hi

@mark; sorry to see you leave; this group was started in 2003, before  
"Serious games" even existed as part of our vocabulary. Yes things  
change over time but I'm impressed what people achieved over the  
years. I don't think accessibility (including Ablegamers) would be in  
the same position without all the hard work people in the SIG has  
contributed with online, at GDC, in research and elsewhere. So please  
don't offend people this way.

@chuck: I'm an indie dev too and I also feel this - I haven't bought  
My football game, I'm not sure you have bought Terraformers? As I  
responded early in this thread, accessibility will be a minor thing  
until public education is using it on a large scale

Kind regards,
Thomas

(Sent from my mobile)

On 28 feb 2010, at 21.00, "Robert Florio" <arthit73 at cablespeed.com>  
wrote:

> Sorry, I accidentally send my e-mail before finishing what I'm saying.
>
> Hi John.  I don't think we ever met before but thanks for mentioning  
> me in
> your list of people trying to spread the word.  I haven't been  
> active on
> this for a while I've just been burned out I guess from graduating,  
> not
> getting a job, working my butt off in the art field and hardly  
> selling any
> artwork but anyway.  Doing all this with my mouth and then with that  
> kind of
> a disability but on the upside, I rock 'n roll all day and night.
>
> Who web sites I couldn't find a brief paragraph describing what it  
> is....
>
> .... continuing!...  I could not find a section of your web site  
> that said
> the purpose of your site because I want to add it to my web site
> accessibility link page. I have not added anything to my  
> accessibility link
> page in so long. If you have any list of other accessible web sites  
> for
> gaming creating games and stuff like that please let me know I can  
> put them
> on there.
>
> I'm downloading your book now to play.  Is it only audio games for the
> blind? Are you guys in Massachusetts United States?
>
> I'm in Glen burnie Maryland United States.  30 minutes north of  
> Washington,
> DC.
>
> This is my page for accessibility.  The rest of my web site shows my
> artwork.  And I have not been doing any reviews with the quad  
> controller
> games in years.  Bad, I know. I've just been busy trying to start a  
> career
> and trying to find a girlfriend so I guess, actually I stopped  
> playing video
> games more than a year ago.  Isn't that horrible.  Time flies. I  
> have it set
> up a just don't play but I would like to.  I guess because I paint  
> all day
> my mouth takes a lot of abuse and that controller hurts my mouth.   
> That's
> why.
>
> http://www.robertflorio.com/Game_Accessibility.html
>
> That's my web site link.  Check it out.  Give me some improvements  
> please I
> can add a lot of information and links.
> Robert
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access- 
> bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of John Bannick
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:04 PM
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: [games_access] Judge Tosses Blind Gamer's Suit vs. Sony
>
> Chuck,
>
> As an independent developer of games that are accessible, I "feel your
> pain."
> We've (7-128 Software) been offering games that are accessible to  
> blind,
> motion-impaired, or deaf gamers for several years now.
> We do sell some.
> But not a lot.
>
> Our blind colleagues over on audyssey.org report the same results.
> Some sales. But not a lot.
>
> That being said, I think it's due to our weak marketing.
> Something we're working on this year.
>
> As to purchases of your game:
>
> 1. This SIG has relatively few, though influential, members.
> Industry studies indicate that it takes about 100 "contacts" to  
> generate
> 1 sale.
>
> 2. Despite your connection with EA (congrats, by the way) we've never
> heard of you.
> No offense meant. Just a fact.
> And that's right after completing our annual survey of Web sites for
> gamers who have special needs.
> I just now Googled "accessible computer games"
> We came up on page 1. We're tiny.
> DanZ came up on page 1. He's out of business.
> You didn't come up in the 1st 10 pages.
> I never saw your review on Mark's site. (Sorry, Mark)
> Nor your ad in Parenting.
> Nor your review in AT News.
> Again, no diss meant. Just the facts.
>
> 3. Not everyone plays sports games.
> Me for instance.
> (I like mystery games.)
>
> It seems unreasonable to expect sales to a small group of people who
> likely have never heard of your game, and may or may not play sports  
> games.
>
> However, your frustration is understandable, and shared by us indie
> developers of games that are accessible.
> My personal response to that frustration is to try to do a better  
> job of
> marketing and to support groups such as this SIG and sites like Mark's
> and Barrie's, and individual efforts like Robert's and Sandra's to  
> make
> people aware of the issue.
>
> To that end, we're adding your Web site to our Top 25 Web Sites for
> Gamers who are Motion Impaired - 2010, as a Site to Watch.
> Not a fantastic help, but we do distribute it to MI-related groups and
> publicity never hurts.
>
> John Bannick
> CTO
> www.7128.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sun Feb 28 17:49:37 2010
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:49:37 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Speaking of Game Accessibility Day...
In-Reply-To: <191870b71002171341o56a7785bodd00ba40cd73a73e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <191870b71002171341o56a7785bodd00ba40cd73a73e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001cab8c8$4ee968d0$ecbc3a70$@de>

Hello Mark,

I waited for responses of the VDVC group,
but at the moment we still have to teach the basics to the members.
So it is only me who has questions:

My question is: How can we support developers who are interested in Game
Accessibility?

Best regards,
Sandra


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Mark Barlet
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Februar 2010 22:42
An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: [games_access] Speaking of Game Accessibility Day...

Hello Everyone,

As you know The AbleGamers Foundation is among those working with the
Games for Health Project to put on Game Accessibility day as part of
Games for Health in Boston May 25-27.

One of the ideas we've been tasked with is thinking about how we could
have a real group participation session that might result in some
brainstorming and output that could be valuable to the large GA
community.

So here is a question for this group. If we have 60 people in the room
from all over the technology, game development, therapy, and academia,
and we were to devote time to opening the floor up for brainstorming
and finding solutions what would be the questions you would like to
see answered?

 If you have any questions about this or that lets talk about here so
that I can use this amazing brain trust in the room and see what comes
of it. What we plan to do from there is publish the answers in an
article on Gamasutra, and Games For Health and AbleGamers that evening
for everyone to see and spur further public participation.

To kick things off one idea I had was to potentially brainstorm what a
site for parents of disabled gamers might look like.  What would be a
well done parent 101 site on accessibility for games look like and how
might we rapidly design, build, and publish it?

An idea Ben Sawyer had was what would be the script in terms of time
(e.g. 5 minutes on this topic,  4 minutes of this speaker) that would
make up the ultimate 60 minute documentary on games accessibility?

Send me over your thoughts I will get them all on a list, and lets see
how many we can put to the group.

Thanks

Mark Barlet

President and CEO
The AbleGamers Foundation
-- 

The AbleGamers Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity that advocates
for greater accessibility in the digital entertainment space.
Visit our site, http://www.ablegamers.org
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