From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Apr 3 14:24:20 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:24:20 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments Message-ID: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> Hello, I would like to get some constructive feedback and comments for this: Thanks. 1. Rights of other users: The rights of other users must not be compromised. For example a gamer uses the optional support/alternatives in a competitively match to get unreasonable advantages. This can be very critical in competitive play of video games with award, like in professional eSports. It is important that we find a technical solution for this. 2. Games cannot be "fully" accessible: Usually games cannot be "fully" accessible, without creating a wholly new and different game. (This is important for some countries who use the term "barrier free". When we would say a game is barrier free, but a deaf blind gamer cannot play the game, it is not fair for this player to say the game is barrier-free. In general we should describe for which disability the game is accessible to avoid misunderstandings. Best regards, Sandra From oneswitch at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 15:48:04 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:48:04 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> References: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> Message-ID: My thoughts for what they're worth... For 1. "unreasonable advantages" is the crux of it. Simply detecting that someone has auto-fire or the like is not a very good system for barring someone from a game. Maybe a communal voting system where someone who is absurdly good (and can be measured as such) gets booted up a level to compete with others competing in a similar playing field. I guess an analogy would be if there was a legal drugs-assisted-super-olympics, that people from the special olympics and standard olympics could be entered into should they become significantly miss-matched in competition. For 2. "fully accessible" and "barrier-free" are both aspirational terms and very unlikely to ever be fully achieved in the field of gaming. I love the parallel universes theory, which is a great thing to consider when aspiring to make a fully accessible / barrier-free game. Barrie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sandra Uhling" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 7:24 PM To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > Hello, > > I would like to get some constructive feedback and comments for this: > Thanks. > > > 1. Rights of other users: > The rights of other users must not be compromised. For example a gamer > uses > the optional support/alternatives in a competitively match to get > unreasonable advantages. This can be very critical in competitive play of > video games with award, like in professional eSports. It is important that > we find a technical solution for this. > > > 2. Games cannot be "fully" accessible: > Usually games cannot be "fully" accessible, without creating a wholly new > and different game. (This is important for some countries who use the term > "barrier free". When we would say a game is barrier free, but a deaf blind > gamer cannot play the game, it is not fair for this player to say the game > is barrier-free. In general we should describe for which disability the > game > is accessible to avoid misunderstandings. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Apr 3 16:01:40 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 22:01:40 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> Message-ID: <001f01cd11d4$964fbf00$c2ef3d00$@de> Hi Barrie, I do not understand what you want to say. 1. How can you make sure that in a match where these advantages are not allowed, are not used? That is the big problem. 2. What is parallel universe theory? Best regards, Sandra -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Barrie Ellis Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. April 2012 21:48 An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments My thoughts for what they're worth... For 1. "unreasonable advantages" is the crux of it. Simply detecting that someone has auto-fire or the like is not a very good system for barring someone from a game. Maybe a communal voting system where someone who is absurdly good (and can be measured as such) gets booted up a level to compete with others competing in a similar playing field. I guess an analogy would be if there was a legal drugs-assisted-super-olympics, that people from the special olympics and standard olympics could be entered into should they become significantly miss-matched in competition. For 2. "fully accessible" and "barrier-free" are both aspirational terms and very unlikely to ever be fully achieved in the field of gaming. I love the parallel universes theory, which is a great thing to consider when aspiring to make a fully accessible / barrier-free game. Barrie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sandra Uhling" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 7:24 PM To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > Hello, > > I would like to get some constructive feedback and comments for this: > Thanks. > > > 1. Rights of other users: > The rights of other users must not be compromised. For example a gamer > uses > the optional support/alternatives in a competitively match to get > unreasonable advantages. This can be very critical in competitive play of > video games with award, like in professional eSports. It is important that > we find a technical solution for this. > > > 2. Games cannot be "fully" accessible: > Usually games cannot be "fully" accessible, without creating a wholly new > and different game. (This is important for some countries who use the term > "barrier free". When we would say a game is barrier free, but a deaf blind > gamer cannot play the game, it is not fair for this player to say the game > is barrier-free. In general we should describe for which disability the > game > is accessible to avoid misunderstandings. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org From thomasw at dsv.su.se Wed Apr 4 08:59:55 2012 From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:59:55 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: <001f01cd11d4$964fbf00$c2ef3d00$@de> References: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> <001f01cd11d4$964fbf00$c2ef3d00$@de> Message-ID: Hi Sandra, see: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130260/the_theory_of_parallel_game_.php?print=1 On 3Apr 2012, at 10:01 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > 2. What is parallel universe theory? From four at nucleus.com Wed Apr 4 09:16:12 2012 From: four at nucleus.com (Siobhan Thomas) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 07:16:12 -0600 Subject: [games_access] neurosky event Message-ID: Hi everyone, This may be of interest to you, if you're in London: https://sites.google.com/site/neuroskydevelopment/ Also, if you are in London you might want to sign up to IGDA London facebook group to get updates about game related events (e.g BAFTA is having a Witcher2 developer Q&A: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4739563807/) Siobhan From sandra_uhling at web.de Wed Apr 4 10:33:34 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:33:34 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> Message-ID: <001301cd126f$eaf55970$c0e00c50$@de> Hi, do I get it right? Because gamers with a disability need special function other gamers cannot make professional matches with awards? Best regards, Sandra -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Barrie Ellis Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. April 2012 21:48 An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments My thoughts for what they're worth... For 1. "unreasonable advantages" is the crux of it. Simply detecting that someone has auto-fire or the like is not a very good system for barring someone from a game. Maybe a communal voting system where someone who is absurdly good (and can be measured as such) gets booted up a level to compete with others competing in a similar playing field. I guess an analogy would be if there was a legal drugs-assisted-super-olympics, that people from the special olympics and standard olympics could be entered into should they become significantly miss-matched in competition. For 2. "fully accessible" and "barrier-free" are both aspirational terms and very unlikely to ever be fully achieved in the field of gaming. I love the parallel universes theory, which is a great thing to consider when aspiring to make a fully accessible / barrier-free game. Barrie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sandra Uhling" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 7:24 PM To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > Hello, > > I would like to get some constructive feedback and comments for this: > Thanks. > > > 1. Rights of other users: > The rights of other users must not be compromised. For example a gamer > uses > the optional support/alternatives in a competitively match to get > unreasonable advantages. This can be very critical in competitive play of > video games with award, like in professional eSports. It is important that > we find a technical solution for this. > > > 2. Games cannot be "fully" accessible: > Usually games cannot be "fully" accessible, without creating a wholly new > and different game. (This is important for some countries who use the term > "barrier free". When we would say a game is barrier free, but a deaf blind > gamer cannot play the game, it is not fair for this player to say the game > is barrier-free. In general we should describe for which disability the > game > is accessible to avoid misunderstandings. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org From oneswitch at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 13:29:13 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:29:13 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: <001301cd126f$eaf55970$c0e00c50$@de> References: <001701cd11c6$fd7cbe20$f8763a60$@de> <001301cd126f$eaf55970$c0e00c50$@de> Message-ID: <62ABB0381620432289C4A29B95A74E3F@OneSwitchPC> No, sorry, that's wrong. I'm saying that if players are evenly matched, then why not get involved with professional matches with awards, even if they do use aids/mods/hacks? Barrie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sandra Uhling" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:33 PM To: "'Barrie Ellis'" ; "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Subject: AW: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > Hi, > > do I get it right? > Because gamers with a disability need special function > other gamers cannot make professional matches with awards? > > Best regards, > Sandra > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > Im > Auftrag von Barrie Ellis > Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. April 2012 21:48 > An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > > My thoughts for what they're worth... > > For 1. "unreasonable advantages" is the crux of it. Simply detecting that > someone has auto-fire or the like is not a very good system for barring > someone from a game. Maybe a communal voting system where someone who is > absurdly good (and can be measured as such) gets booted up a level to > compete with others competing in a similar playing field. I guess an > analogy > > would be if there was a legal drugs-assisted-super-olympics, that people > from the special olympics and standard olympics could be entered into > should > > they become significantly miss-matched in competition. > > For 2. "fully accessible" and "barrier-free" are both aspirational terms > and > > very unlikely to ever be fully achieved in the field of gaming. I love the > parallel universes theory, which is a great thing to consider when > aspiring > to make a fully accessible / barrier-free game. > > Barrie > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 7:24 PM > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" > Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments > >> Hello, >> >> I would like to get some constructive feedback and comments for this: >> Thanks. >> >> >> 1. Rights of other users: >> The rights of other users must not be compromised. For example a gamer >> uses >> the optional support/alternatives in a competitively match to get >> unreasonable advantages. This can be very critical in competitive play of >> video games with award, like in professional eSports. It is important >> that >> we find a technical solution for this. >> >> >> 2. Games cannot be "fully" accessible: >> Usually games cannot be "fully" accessible, without creating a wholly new >> and different game. (This is important for some countries who use the >> term >> "barrier free". When we would say a game is barrier free, but a deaf >> blind >> gamer cannot play the game, it is not fair for this player to say the >> game >> is barrier-free. In general we should describe for which disability the >> game >> is accessible to avoid misunderstandings. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Sandra >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > From i_h at hotmail.com Wed Apr 4 18:59:19 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:59:19 +0000 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The parallel thing.. interesting. So pretty much like that mario kart from a couple of generations back where one person (ie. younger less able sibling) just chucked shells off the back of the cart while the other handled the more difficult job of the steering. 1. Disagree with this one. It's impossible to have a totally level playing field, as some kind of technology is required by everyone to take part, and that technology varies from person to person. When my wife occasionally tries to play on the 360 her rights to a level playing field are compromised by the fact that I play more games so am used to the controller and have better hand-eye coordination. 2. Personally I've always argued that for something to be accessible to all demographics it actually needs to be totally separate game mechanics, in which case it's no longer a single game. The main thing is that for something to be considered a game it must include some kind of challenge (else it's just a toy or interactive narrative), but any kind of challenge excludes someone. However I'm extremely happy to say that I was proved totally wrong by a student at this year's GGJ (thomas kaczmarek) who managed to hit just about everything, despite my trying to persuade him that it wouldnt be possible. It was just a case of abstracting out the mechanic and looking at different means to achieve the same goals. Needs based accessbility, not getting hung up on the usual tech stuff. Deaf-blind isn't the hardest thing to tackle as haptic is common enough now. To my mind the hardest group is cognitive, low functioning autistic spectrum in paricular, but even so I've been lucky enough to see that it's possible to cater for this audiences without diluting things for anyone else, and create a huge life changing affect in the process. Having said all that though generally it's impossible. But rather than saying 'barrier free' I'd prefer 'free from unncessary barriers'. Ian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Thu Apr 5 03:19:31 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:19:31 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't see Parallel universes quite like that. Your example sounds like collaborative team play to me. I'd see Parallel universes applied to Mario Kart as where one player races in the same game with considerably more assists (braking and steering for example) with the other player using standard controls. Perhaps that's what you meant. Re. 1. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with there. My idea is that you have leagues, as with football, that protects less skilled players from being decimated by more skilled players. There's other ways of doing this - but it's what prevents Southend United (local small football team) being thrashed by the likes of Manchester United (huge premier league team) week in and week out. Doesn't mean that the playing field is completely even of course. Just fairer. And if some of the players used prosthetic limbs but it didn't unfairly advantage them, then who would say they couldn't play? Barrie From: Ian Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 11:59 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) The parallel thing.. interesting. So pretty much like that mario kart from a couple of generations back where one person (ie. younger less able sibling) just chucked shells off the back of the cart while the other handled the more difficult job of the steering. 1. Disagree with this one. It's impossible to have a totally level playing field, as some kind of technology is required by everyone to take part, and that technology varies from person to person. When my wife occasionally tries to play on the 360 her rights to a level playing field are compromised by the fact that I play more games so am used to the controller and have better hand-eye coordination. 2. Personally I've always argued that for something to be accessible to all demographics it actually needs to be totally separate game mechanics, in which case it's no longer a single game. The main thing is that for something to be considered a game it must include some kind of challenge (else it's just a toy or interactive narrative), but any kind of challenge excludes someone. However I'm extremely happy to say that I was proved totally wrong by a student at this year's GGJ (thomas kaczmarek) who managed to hit just about everything, despite my trying to persuade him that it wouldnt be possible. It was just a case of abstracting out the mechanic and looking at different means to achieve the same goals. Needs based accessbility, not getting hung up on the usual tech stuff. Deaf-blind isn't the hardest thing to tackle as haptic is common enough now. To my mind the hardest group is cognitive, low functioning autistic spectrum in paricular, but even so I've been lucky enough to see that it's possible to cater for this audiences without diluting things for anyone else, and create a huge life changing affect in the process. Having said all that though generally it's impossible. But rather than saying 'barrier free' I'd prefer 'free from unncessary barriers'. Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From i_h at hotmail.com Thu Apr 5 03:42:11 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:42:11 +0000 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No that's not correct, disabled gamers regularly use assistive technology to compete in professional games tournaments. In particular Street Fighter and Starcraft have seen world class professional gamers who have profound disabilities, eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83nSodg-HTU I've actually just this morning had an email from a quite profoundly disabled gamer who runs a team and is competing at EGL this weekend. Input devices are not fixed, different gamers use their own control methods anyway regardless of wether they have a motor impairment, so whether you use a razer keyboard, a steelseries keyboard or an adroid switchblade is irrelevant. The only thing that matters as far as a level playing field is concerned is the providing the same game mechanic, so what wouldn't be allowed would be something actually directly modifies the gameplay, such as auto-aim. Ian > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:33:34 +0200 > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and > comments > To: "'Barrie Ellis'" , "'IGDA Games Accessibility > SIG Mailing List'" > Message-ID: <001301cd126f$eaf55970$c0e00c50$@de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > do I get it right? > Because gamers with a disability need special function > other gamers cannot make professional matches with awards? > > Best regards, > Sandra > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Apr 5 03:47:02 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 09:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomasw at dsv.su.se Thu Apr 5 07:11:36 2012 From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 13:11:36 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70933558-A8B9-4170-ADCB-98083FA46CD4@dsv.su.se> it makes me think of the philosopher Bernard Suits who said: "playing a game is a voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles" - which is a brilliant definition of games in general. Adapted to game accessibility it may be something like: "game accessibility is an attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles" Mvh / Best regards Thomas Westin Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 8 161992 On 5Apr 2012, at 12:59 AM, Ian Hamilton wrote: > But rather than saying 'barrier free' I'd prefer 'free from unncessary barriers'. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From i_h at hotmail.com Thu Apr 5 10:47:39 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 14:47:39 +0000 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The features can be added, as these are not e-sport games, only a small percentage of their use is for e-sports. So if there's a feature that gives an unfair advantage then the solution is just not to use that feature in a competitive game, rather than avoid implementing it all. For example setting a handicap is not permitted in competitive Starcraft, but the feature is still included, and used in non-competitive games. > Some game accessibility features can be misused to get unfair advantages in a competitive game.We do not have a solution for this.We cannot request companys to add game accessibility features (that can be misused)in games that are used in eSport>> Sandra -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lgraham at blitzgamesstudios.com Thu Apr 5 11:31:10 2012 From: lgraham at blitzgamesstudios.com (Lynsey Graham) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 16:31:10 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5dda2f01-377d-45ea-b0c0-636d6598702e@blitzgamesstudios.com> I remember when Blizzard banned some World of Warcraft add ons. They enabled a player with mobility issues to play the game more comfortably and generally enjoy the exploring and social aspects that the game provides. However, it was also open to exploitation on PvP servers and battlegrounds - I can't for the life of me remember what the one was called, but it automated some rotations and reactions, such as triggering a trinket, class or racial ability to evade snaring or slowing abilities. My husband, who's very competitive and PvP focussed, said that this was 100% the right thing to do, as it "removed the skill aspect from the game". I think there was an auto-navigation add-on that was banned too. I think there are ways around it, after a fashion - you could have a set of servers in the same battlegroup that allow assisting add-ons, then players could make a choice. If they were made PvE servers, then there wouldn't be any complaints about it directly unfair to other players as there would be very little world PvP. You could still have ranked battlegrounds and arenas if all the servers in the battleground had the same add-on rules. I wonder if it would be technically possible to stop someone with a particular add-on from entering the ranked battlegrounds or arenas? I can fully understand why some players would find some add-ons 'unfair', but at the same time it seems unfair to prevent people from using things that allow them to enjoy a game when the competitive element is only a small part of it. Slightly off-topic, but it reminds me a bit of Oscar Pistorius who qualified for the Olympics, and people complaining that it's unfair because of his blades. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/31/oscar-pistorius-should-he-compete "The features can be added, as these are not e-sport games, only a small percentage of their use is for e-sports. So if there's a feature that gives an unfair advantage then the solution is just not to use that feature in a competitive game, rather than avoid implementing it all. For example setting a handicap is not permitted in competitive Starcraft, but the feature is still included, and used in non-competitive games. " ^ This. The Gears of War games have a variety of difficulty settings for the single player and co-op multiplayer modes, but there's no difference in competitive multiplayer. There is matchmaking though, and standard and 'ranked' competitive multiplayer. From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Ian Hamilton Sent: 05 April 2012 15:48 To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments The features can be added, as these are not e-sport games, only a small percentage of their use is for e-sports. So if there's a feature that gives an unfair advantage then the solution is just not to use that feature in a competitive game, rather than avoid implementing it all. For example setting a handicap is not permitted in competitive Starcraft, but the feature is still included, and used in non-competitive games. > Some game accessibility features can be misused to get unfair advantages in a competitive game.We do not have a solution for this.We cannot request companys to add game accessibility features (that can be misused)in games that are used in eSport > > Sandra -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Apr 5 12:02:31 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 18:02:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomasw at dsv.su.se Fri Apr 6 17:12:52 2012 From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 23:12:52 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Scientists train Kinect to follow your tongue wagging Message-ID: http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/03/scientists-train-kinect-to-follow-your-tongue-wagging/ Kind regards, Thomas (Sent from my mobile) From blazeeagle at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 6 23:40:49 2012 From: blazeeagle at suddenlink.net (blazeeagle at suddenlink.net) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 23:40:49 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13B0F165925D42FA91FAF28713798ABF@Aarons> They can make it so a disabled person gets special permission to use accessibility adaptions in competitive gaming with a note from their Doctor couldn?t they? Excluding a disabled person from gaming competitions because they need special adaptions is a form of discrimination. From i_h at hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 06:25:14 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?aV9oQGhvdG1haWwuY29t?=) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 11:25:14 +0100 Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Tax_credits_for_game_accessibility=3F?= Message-ID: Not sure if this is still relevant as the article is a few years old, but interesting stuff either way. Mentioned at the end of the article - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2681/game_law_everybody_conga.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Sat Apr 7 08:44:31 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:44:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [games_access] Tax credits for game accessibility? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Sun Apr 8 04:03:59 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 09:03:59 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <969B4878D7314254BE9C81FB60913B85@OneSwitchPC> Re. the unfair advantage angle, Sandra. I would see it that if you've asked a company to add an accessibility feature to their own game, then they'll have an idea of whether it's not it's being used to garner an unfair advantage and can support the moderation of this within competitions. But they'll need to temper this against whether a person is being unfairly discriminated against linked to what they need (e.g. assist modes) to compete on a level footing. Does that make sense? Barrie From: Sandra Uhling Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:47 AM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) Hello, to the first point: Some game accessibility features can be misused to get unfair advantages in a competitive game. We do not have a solution for this. = We cannot request companys to add game accessibility features (that can be misused) in games that are used in eSport. Best regards, Sandra Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. April 2012 um 09:19 Uhr Von: "Barrie Ellis" An: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) I don't see Parallel universes quite like that. Your example sounds like collaborative team play to me. I'd see Parallel universes applied to Mario Kart as where one player races in the same game with considerably more assists (braking and steering for example) with the other player using standard controls. Perhaps that's what you meant. Re. 1. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with there. My idea is that you have leagues, as with football, that protects less skilled players from being decimated by more skilled players. There's other ways of doing this - but it's what prevents Southend United (local small football team) being thrashed by the likes of Manchester United (huge premier league team) week in and week out. Doesn't mean that the playing field is completely even of course. Just fairer. And if some of the players used prosthetic limbs but it didn't unfairly advantage them, then who would say they couldn't play? Barrie From: Ian Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 11:59 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) The parallel thing.. interesting. So pretty much like that mario kart from a couple of generations back where one person (ie. younger less able sibling) just chucked shells off the back of the cart while the other handled the more difficult job of the steering. 1. Disagree with this one. It's impossible to have a totally level playing field, as some kind of technology is required by everyone to take part, and that technology varies from person to person. When my wife occasionally tries to play on the 360 her rights to a level playing field are compromised by the fact that I play more games so am used to the controller and have better hand-eye coordination. 2. Personally I've always argued that for something to be accessible to all demographics it actually needs to be totally separate game mechanics, in which case it's no longer a single game. The main thing is that for something to be considered a game it must include some kind of challenge (else it's just a toy or interactive narrative), but any kind of challenge excludes someone. However I'm extremely happy to say that I was proved totally wrong by a student at this year's GGJ (thomas kaczmarek) who managed to hit just about everything, despite my trying to persuade him that it wouldnt be possible. It was just a case of abstracting out the mechanic and looking at different means to achieve the same goals. Needs based accessbility, not getting hung up on the usual tech stuff. Deaf-blind isn't the hardest thing to tackle as haptic is common enough now. To my mind the hardest group is cognitive, low functioning autistic spectrum in paricular, but even so I've been lucky enough to see that it's possible to cater for this audiences without diluting things for anyone else, and create a huge life changing affect in the process. Having said all that though generally it's impossible. But rather than saying 'barrier free' I'd prefer 'free from unncessary barriers'. Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org Ihr WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail App f?r iPhone und Android. https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Sun Apr 8 14:50:16 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 20:50:16 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: <969B4878D7314254BE9C81FB60913B85@OneSwitchPC> References: , <969B4878D7314254BE9C81FB60913B85@OneSwitchPC> Message-ID: <000401cd15b8$71115720$53340560$@de> We should make a note about this. Maybe notes to the Top Ten list? -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Barrie Ellis Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. April 2012 10:04 An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) Re. the unfair advantage angle, Sandra. I would see it that if you've asked a company to add an accessibility feature to their own game, then they'll have an idea of whether it's not it's being used to garner an unfair advantage and can support the moderation of this within competitions. But they'll need to temper this against whether a person is being unfairly discriminated against linked to what they need (e.g. assist modes) to compete on a level footing. Does that make sense? Barrie From: Sandra Uhling Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:47 AM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) Hello, to the first point: Some game accessibility features can be misused to get unfair advantages in a competitive game. We do not have a solution for this. = We cannot request companys to add game accessibility features (that can be misused) in games that are used in eSport. Best regards, Sandra Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. April 2012 um 09:19 Uhr Von: "Barrie Ellis" An: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) I don't see Parallel universes quite like that. Your example sounds like collaborative team play to me. I'd see Parallel universes applied to Mario Kart as where one player races in the same game with considerably more assists (braking and steering for example) with the other player using standard controls. Perhaps that's what you meant. Re. 1. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with there. My idea is that you have leagues, as with football, that protects less skilled players from being decimated by more skilled players. There's other ways of doing this - but it's what prevents Southend United (local small football team) being thrashed by the likes of Manchester United (huge premier league team) week in and week out. Doesn't mean that the playing field is completely even of course. Just fairer. And if some of the players used prosthetic limbs but it didn't unfairly advantage them, then who would say they couldn't play? Barrie From: Ian Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 11:59 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for constructive feedback and comments(Sandra Uhling) The parallel thing.. interesting. So pretty much like that mario kart from a couple of generations back where one person (ie. younger less able sibling) just chucked shells off the back of the cart while the other handled the more difficult job of the steering. 1. Disagree with this one. It's impossible to have a totally level playing field, as some kind of technology is required by everyone to take part, and that technology varies from person to person. When my wife occasionally tries to play on the 360 her rights to a level playing field are compromised by the fact that I play more games so am used to the controller and have better hand-eye coordination. 2. Personally I've always argued that for something to be accessible to all demographics it actually needs to be totally separate game mechanics, in which case it's no longer a single game. The main thing is that for something to be considered a game it must include some kind of challenge (else it's just a toy or interactive narrative), but any kind of challenge excludes someone. However I'm extremely happy to say that I was proved totally wrong by a student at this year's GGJ (thomas kaczmarek) who managed to hit just about everything, despite my trying to persuade him that it wouldnt be possible. It was just a case of abstracting out the mechanic and looking at different means to achieve the same goals. Needs based accessbility, not getting hung up on the usual tech stuff. Deaf-blind isn't the hardest thing to tackle as haptic is common enough now. To my mind the hardest group is cognitive, low functioning autistic spectrum in paricular, but even so I've been lucky enough to see that it's possible to cater for this audiences without diluting things for anyone else, and create a huge life changing affect in the process. Having said all that though generally it's impossible. But rather than saying 'barrier free' I'd prefer 'free from unncessary barriers'. Ian ________________________________ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org Ihr WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail App f?r iPhone und Android. https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/ ________________________________ _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org From thomasw at dsv.su.se Mon Apr 9 18:57:49 2012 From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 00:57:49 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Tax credits for game accessibility? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ACA92F0-FB4A-4840-87F9-A7CE1D9B6BCD@dsv.su.se> Yes, Tom Buscaglia has been an advocate for game accessibility since the early days of the SIG, and the article is still very relevant. Mvh / Best regards Thomas Westin Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 8 161992 On 7Apr 2012, at 2:44 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > > Hi Ian, > this is not out of date, this is up to date :-) > Look at your National Action plans for the CRPD. > > There should be a local possibility to send in a parallel report about the CRPD. > Here you can write a part about Game Accessibility, the situation and what > is needed to move it forward. Does the government care about this topic? > Are there more researches? ... > > ;-) > Best regards, > Sandra > Gesendet: Samstag, 07. April 2012 um 12:25 Uhr > Von: "i_h at hotmail.com" > An: games_access at igda.org > Betreff: [games_access] Tax credits for game accessibility? > > Not sure if this is still relevant as the article is a few years old, but interesting stuff either way. Mentioned at the end of the article - > > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2681/game_law_everybody_conga.php > > > > > > Ihr WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail App f?r iPhone und Android. > https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/ > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier.mairena at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 03:44:49 2012 From: javier.mairena at gmail.com (Javier Mairena) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:44:49 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games Message-ID: An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain on accessibility in video games in recent years. Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanish state center for personal autonomy and technical assistance). The document is only on spanish, sorry: http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf Here you have index document translated by Google: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at audiogames.net Tue Apr 10 04:06:35 2012 From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net)) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:06:35 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F83EA0B.2030701@audiogames.net> Excellent! Congratulations (also to Carmen & Pilar!)!! On 10-4-2012 9:44, Javier Mairena wrote: > An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain > on accessibility in video games in recent years. > Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanishstate center for personal autonomy > and technical assistance). > > The document is only on spanish, sorry: > http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf > > Here you have index document translated by Google: > http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Apr 10 05:43:03 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:43:03 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Tip for MS - user studies Message-ID: <001301cd16fe$5412b9b0$fc382d10$@de> Hello, I do recommend to add accessibility to user studies. E.g. http://www.gamevisioneurope.eu/ But I would not call it "Accessibility". I would ask the gamer what they wish, want, need and give examples for Game Accessibility Features. E.g. Would you like reconfiguration of the control? Do you need much easier difficulty? Would you like to have much more difficulty? (I would also add stuff like this, when you implement a function, you can also look in both direction!) Do you want/use subtitles? Do you use subtitles to learn another language? Where you not able to finish a game? [sorry for bad English] Why were you not able to finish a game? What would you wish to change this? (It is very bad to pay lot of money and not being able to finish a game, special when you are interested into the topic) Maybe you can use Top Ten List of the SIG as examples? Or maybe pick some recommendation of this list: http://www.gameaccessibility.de/recommendations/all-together/ There are lot of Game Accessibility Features that are also very useful to non disabled gamers. They can also be very interesting for Hardcore Gamers! With best regards, Sandra Uhling www.GameAccessibility.de From richard at audiogames.net Tue Apr 10 08:33:17 2012 From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net)) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:33:17 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games In-Reply-To: <4F83EAFF.5030508@gmail.com> References: <4F83EA0B.2030701@audiogames.net> <4F83EAFF.5030508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F84288D.3010604@audiogames.net> Hi Carme! Hahaha - in a good or a bad way? ;-) That's so sweet of you!! Yes, I would have loved to come but unfortunately couldn't manage :-/ Busy with many different things. Here at the HKU my focus is slowly turning towards play and Interactive Toy Design ("games are soo yesterday and toys are the new black"), mainly because as of next year we will have a course with the same name but also because I seriously do believe that interactive toys are a big part of What's Next. Therefore toy accessibility is also somewhere in my agenda ;-) Other than that I we had the DIGRA Think Design Play conference here in Hilversum and I put a lot of time into the Cultures At Play Game Jam in Istanbul last year. Adaptive Music Systems research still continues, as does my work at the Applied Game Design research program (http://agd.hku.nl/) and the Creative Design for Playful Impact research program (have you already seen our program's Game for Pigs: http://www.playingwithpigs.nl/ ?). And of course (my company) Creative Heroes 2 days a week :-) So accessibility is pretty low on my to do list (let alone translation), although I am currently exploring the possibilities of a R&D project about games/toys with Sifteo cubes for children with (for instance) dyspraxia. BUT... ... maybe interesting for you guys to know is that we are in the process of setting up some sort of 'Code Jam' with the main theme "Inclusion/Accessibility". The event is somewhat similar to a 'game jam' but than with a focus on software instead of games: multiple small teams of designers and developers developing a small pieces of software in 48 hours that would somehow be related to accessibility/inclusion. Nothing is final yet but I'll let you know how things progress if you want? Maybe we can arrange for you to come over with some students and participate? For me (if I participate) this would be the ideal opportunity to finally sit down and prototype those Sound Balloons ;-) And how are you? What's up in Barcelona? Best regards! Richard On 10-4-2012 10:10, Carme Mangiron wrote: > Thanks, Richard! :) > > How's things? Hope all's well! > > We had the second edition of the conference in March, and it wasn't > the same without you... > > A big hug from Barcelona! > > Carmen > > On 10/04/2012 10:06, Richard (AudioGames.net) wrote: >> Excellent! Congratulations (also to Carmen & Pilar!)!! >> >> >> On 10-4-2012 9:44, Javier Mairena wrote: >>> An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain >>> on accessibility in video games in recent years. >>> Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanishstate center for personal autonomy >>> and technical assistance). >>> >>> The document is only on spanish, sorry: >>> http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf >>> >>> Here you have index document translated by Google: >>> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> games_access mailing list >>> games_access at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >>> The main SIG website page ishttp://igda-gasig.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> The main SIG website page ishttp://igda-gasig.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 13:45:54 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 18:45:54 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games In-Reply-To: <4F84288D.3010604@audiogames.net> References: <4F83EA0B.2030701@audiogames.net> <4F83EAFF.5030508@gmail.com> <4F84288D.3010604@audiogames.net> Message-ID: <927412A35AB446A0B54F6AAAE328EC55@OneSwitchPC> Have always been interested in Toy Accessibility. From a switch perspective - it would be so nice if electronic toy designers at least left a couple of easy solder points for external controls to be attached. Be good to get your thoughts/findings/developments on the list. Guess you've seen this? http://switchgaming.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/switchamajig.html Would love to see that kind of thing further developed for alternative controls for those unable to use touch-screens. I'm having a bash at it from an old year 2000 project - but time is very limited to chuck at it. All the best, Barrie From: Richard (AudioGames.net) Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:33 PM To: Carme Mangiron Cc: Pilar Orero ; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games Hi Carme! Hahaha - in a good or a bad way? ;-) That's so sweet of you!! Yes, I would have loved to come but unfortunately couldn't manage :-/ Busy with many different things. Here at the HKU my focus is slowly turning towards play and Interactive Toy Design ("games are soo yesterday and toys are the new black"), mainly because as of next year we will have a course with the same name but also because I seriously do believe that interactive toys are a big part of What's Next. Therefore toy accessibility is also somewhere in my agenda ;-) Other than that I we had the DIGRA Think Design Play conference here in Hilversum and I put a lot of time into the Cultures At Play Game Jam in Istanbul last year. Adaptive Music Systems research still continues, as does my work at the Applied Game Design research program (http://agd.hku.nl/) and the Creative Design for Playful Impact research program (have you already seen our program's Game for Pigs: http://www.playingwithpigs.nl/ ?). And of course (my company) Creative Heroes 2 days a week :-) So accessibility is pretty low on my to do list (let alone translation), although I am currently exploring the possibilities of a R&D project about games/toys with Sifteo cubes for children with (for instance) dyspraxia. BUT... ... maybe interesting for you guys to know is that we are in the process of setting up some sort of 'Code Jam' with the main theme "Inclusion/Accessibility". The event is somewhat similar to a 'game jam' but than with a focus on software instead of games: multiple small teams of designers and developers developing a small pieces of software in 48 hours that would somehow be related to accessibility/inclusion. Nothing is final yet but I'll let you know how things progress if you want? Maybe we can arrange for you to come over with some students and participate? For me (if I participate) this would be the ideal opportunity to finally sit down and prototype those Sound Balloons ;-) And how are you? What's up in Barcelona? Best regards! Richard On 10-4-2012 10:10, Carme Mangiron wrote: Thanks, Richard! :) How's things? Hope all's well! We had the second edition of the conference in March, and it wasn't the same without you... A big hug from Barcelona! Carmen On 10/04/2012 10:06, Richard (AudioGames.net) wrote: Excellent! Congratulations (also to Carmen & Pilar!)!! On 10-4-2012 9:44, Javier Mairena wrote: An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain on accessibility in video games in recent years. Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanish state center for personal autonomy and technical assistance). The document is only on spanish, sorry: http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf Here you have index document translated by Google: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 18:03:14 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 23:03:14 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Blimey! Very impressive bit of work. Would love to see it translated into English. Google translate does a pretty good job (just not on the cartoon, nor tables). Brilliant stuff, none-the-less. Barrie From: Javier Mairena Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:44 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain on accessibility in video games in recent years. Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanish state center for personal autonomy and technical assistance). The document is only on spanish, sorry: http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf Here you have index document translated by Google: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Fri Apr 13 16:22:21 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:22:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [games_access] Question from a student In-Reply-To: <92f8801fa952211fdd0979113cd306d3@localhost> References: <92f8801fa952211fdd0979113cd306d3@localhost> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From i_h at hotmail.com Sun Apr 15 06:41:21 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:41:21 +0000 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 99, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wouldn't go as far as to say that checklists are not useful. There are three sides to achieving accessibility, each with their own advantages and disadvantages: 1. Checklists/standards/guidelines. These are extremely useful as a general quick reference, allowing people without any accessibility experience to achieve a good general level of accessibility, and also giving something concrete to evaluate against. However they are one set of single rules that apply to everything, and don't take into account the individual differences between games. Also because they are so general, they are easy to misinterpret or misunderstand, especially if you don't have any accessibility experience. 2. Expert review. Consultancy / audits by an experienced accessibility specialist allows precisely tailored recommendations that can be precisely tailored to the individual game. They are cheap and allow issues to be addressed at a very early stage of development before play-testing is possible, avoiding retrofitting costs, however recommendations are unavoidably biased by that person's personal experience, and will be hampered by any holes in their knowledge of either accessibility, the game, or the intended audience. 3. Play-testing with disabled players. This uncovers large numbers of subtle issues that would not be found by other methods, however due to the tiny sample sizes involved the results are not statistically significant and may just be coincidence, specific to those players rather than being representative of the issues that all disabled players face. Results are often misinterpreted as proof, or people thinking for example that if no issues appear after testing with four players then there are no issues at all. So while all three of them are useful in themselves, the best approach is to use all three, as each one compensates for the disadvantages of the others. http://www.bbc.co.uk/gel/accessibility/accessibility-principles/test http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2011/10/something_special_makaton_out_about_universal.html http://coi.gov.uk/guidance.php?page=134 http://www.access8878.co.uk/assuring-accessiblity/methods.aspx Hope that helps Ian > From: games_access-request at igda.org > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question from a student (Sandra Uhling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:22:21 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Subject: [games_access] Question from a student > To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hello,>>here are some questions about guidelines for GA.>>* Links for the topic "Why are checklist not useful">* When was the release date of our new top ten list? verison two.>* When was the release of the "beginer guide" of Brannon?>>Please send the information to: Kristin Lenk "kristin.lenk at tu-ilmenau.de">>Best regards,>>Sandra -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomasw at dsv.su.se Tue Apr 17 15:24:43 2012 From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 21:24:43 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Good practices for accessibility in video games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A603994-4F9A-4415-ABD3-EC690DBE8B9B@dsv.su.se> Wow, impressive! This work dwarfs any document I've seen so far about GA. It was great meeting you and Carme et al at the conference too. I highly recommend anyone interested in this field to attend the conference next time. Mvh / Best regards Thomas Westin Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 8 161992 On 10Apr 2012, at 9:44 AM, Javier Mairena wrote: > An extensive 250-page collection of experiences and studies in Spain on accessibility in video games in recent years. > Great work done by CEAPAT (Spanish state center for personal autonomy and technical assistance). > > The document is only on spanish, sorry: > http://www.ceapat.es/InterPresent1/groups/imserso/documents/binario/accesvideojuegos.pdf > > Here you have index document translated by Google: > http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.videojuegosaccesibles.es/2012/04/buenas-practicas-de-accesibilidad-en.html&hl=en&langpair=es|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 02:08:15 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 07:08:15 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Fw: Fifth-grader Makes Video Game for Blind Grandmother Message-ID: <53302B469A094544B664D9E9800BF224@OneSwitchPC> I rather liked this story from Evil Controllers: From: Evil Controllers Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: Fifth-grader Makes Video Game for Blind Grandmother Grade School Student Makes a Game For His Blind Grandparent According to Yahoo News, while most ten-year-olds are happy playing video games, that wasn't enough for Dylan Viale. Dylan has a very close relationship with his grandmother Sherry, who has been blind for decades. Due to her condition, he hasn't been able to share his love of gaming with her. So he decided to go the extra mile and make one for her as part of his entry into his school district's science fair project. To create the game, Dylan downloaded GameMaker, a program that can easily program a video game. After making a few notes and sketches, he decided to do a maze design. With this maze design, it would have a character named Quacky (designed by his father) to navigate through the maze in order to reach a golden egg while avoiding obstacles like spiders and dynamite. He used the sound system in the game so that his grandma can navigate the maze via the sounds made by picking up diamonds that would lead to the egg. After some tough programming and feedback from his grandmother, he completed a game that he and his grandmother would enjoy. And while his game didn't help him win his district's science fair, he still won over his grandmother, his classmates', and his teachers' love. Multiple copies were distributed throughout the class and school thanks to his father. SOURCE: http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/fifth-grader-makes-video-game-blind-grandmother-181731306.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Apr 26 07:01:57 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:01:57 +0200 Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? Message-ID: <007d01cd239c$000af1c0$0020d540$@de> Hello, There are lots of accessible Games that are amazing. But it can be Difficult to take part without a special category for Game Accessibility. I would like to make a list with companies that would like to take part and wish for a special "Game Accessibility" category. www.innovative-games.eu Unfortunately the participation information are not available at the moment. It is an award for European companies that developed a game innovation. They are open also for "exotic" games and ideas. The last years it was possible to send in a meaningful video. Best regards, Sandra From i_h at hotmail.com Thu Apr 26 10:06:51 2012 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:06:51 +0000 Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd also recommend speaking to organisations to get their support, Ablegamers has obviosuly had some success with their GOTY award but I assume not them as they're US and this is a Euro award, but a sponsor for the category would be very useful. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:01:57 +0200 > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" > > Message-ID: <007d01cd239c$000af1c0$0020d540$@de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > There are lots of accessible Games that are amazing. But it can be > Difficult to take part without a special category for Game Accessibility. > > I would like to make a list with companies that would like > to take part and wish for a special "Game Accessibility" category. > www.innovative-games.eu > > > Unfortunately the participation information are not available at the moment. > It is an award for European companies that developed a game innovation. > They are open also for "exotic" games and ideas. > The last years it was possible to send in a meaningful video. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Apr 26 10:28:54 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 16:28:54 +0200 Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001501cd23b8$e8df5f00$ba9e1d00$@de> Hi Ian, the EIGA-Guys are more open. I think we only need a good list. That is all. In the past I asked them that they should allow video entries. Because some games can be very(!) expensive. They made it :-) Best regards, Sandra -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Ian Hamilton Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2012 16:07 An: games_access at igda.org Betreff: Re: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) I'd also recommend speaking to organisations to get their support, Ablegamers has obviosuly had some success with their GOTY award but I assume not them as they're US and this is a Euro award, but a sponsor for the category would be very useful. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:01:57 +0200 > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" > > Message-ID: <007d01cd239c$000af1c0$0020d540$@de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > There are lots of accessible Games that are amazing. But it can be > Difficult to take part without a special category for Game Accessibility. > > I would like to make a list with companies that would like to take > part and wish for a special "Game Accessibility" category. > www.innovative-games.eu > > > Unfortunately the participation information are not available at the moment. > It is an award for European companies that developed a game innovation. > They are open also for "exotic" games and ideas. > The last years it was possible to send in a meaningful video. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > From sandra_uhling at web.de Fri Apr 27 16:23:43 2012 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:23:43 +0200 Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cd24b3$a4f862e0$eee928a0$@de> Hi, looks like there is no one who is interested ... That is bad ... Best regards, Sandra -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Ian Hamilton Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2012 16:07 An: games_access at igda.org Betreff: Re: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) I'd also recommend speaking to organisations to get their support, Ablegamers has obviosuly had some success with their GOTY award but I assume not them as they're US and this is a Euro award, but a sponsor for the category would be very useful. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:01:57 +0200 > From: "Sandra Uhling" > Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" > > Message-ID: <007d01cd239c$000af1c0$0020d540$@de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > There are lots of accessible Games that are amazing. But it can be > Difficult to take part without a special category for Game Accessibility. > > I would like to make a list with companies that would like to take > part and wish for a special "Game Accessibility" category. > www.innovative-games.eu > > > Unfortunately the participation information are not available at the moment. > It is an award for European companies that developed a game innovation. > They are open also for "exotic" games and ideas. > The last years it was possible to send in a meaningful video. > > > Best regards, > Sandra > From oneswitch at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 04:11:20 2012 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:11:20 +0100 Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "GameAccessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) In-Reply-To: <000601cd24b3$a4f862e0$eee928a0$@de> References: <000601cd24b3$a4f862e0$eee928a0$@de> Message-ID: <121FDC2229B04FC4A97184A0F4632CAB@OneSwitchPC> Hi Sandra, I'll pass it onto SpecialEffect, but they are a small and very busy charity. Cheers, Barrie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sandra Uhling" Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:23 PM To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" Subject: Re: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "GameAccessibility"?(SandraUhling) > Hi, > > looks like there is no one who is interested ... > That is bad ... > > Best regards, > Sandra > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] > Im > Auftrag von Ian Hamilton > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2012 16:07 > An: games_access at igda.org > Betreff: Re: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? > (Sandra Uhling) > > I'd also recommend speaking to organisations to get their support, > Ablegamers has obviosuly had some success with their GOTY award but I > assume > not them as they're US and this is a Euro award, but a sponsor for the > category would be very useful. > >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? (Sandra Uhling) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:01:57 +0200 >> From: "Sandra Uhling" >> Subject: [games_access] EIGA Award - Category "Game Accessibility"? >> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" >> >> Message-ID: <007d01cd239c$000af1c0$0020d540$@de> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hello, >> >> There are lots of accessible Games that are amazing. But it can be >> Difficult to take part without a special category for Game Accessibility. >> >> I would like to make a list with companies that would like to take >> part and wish for a special "Game Accessibility" category. >> www.innovative-games.eu >> >> >> Unfortunately the participation information are not available at the > moment. >> It is an award for European companies that developed a game innovation. >> They are open also for "exotic" games and ideas. >> The last years it was possible to send in a meaningful video. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Sandra >> > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org