[games_access] Gaming Accessibility Limitations - was - Re: games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 13

Sat Jun 23 04:35:22 EDT 2012

I also agree.

Striving for broader overall accessibility is the mission because total 
accessibility isn’t possible.

Being disabled myself, I’ve learned that while more can be done to improve 
greater overall accessibility, There’s obviously limits to how much can be 
done, especially because disabilities are so varied.

I truly appreciate all the efforts gaming disability organizations such as 
Able Gamers are making to make games generally more accessible.

BlazeEagle

-----Original Message----- 
From: games_access-request at igda.org
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:42 AM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11 (Steve Spohn)
   2. Re: games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11 (John R. Porter)
   3. Re: games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11 (Barrie Ellis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:48:42 -0400
From: Steve Spohn <steve at ablegamers.com>
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<CABrM+MUbKVaaPKF07pg6ZFsTOSnGh5-cnRwYkXOOxsNgEqEdtg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I might be be the unpopular one here, but our jobs in game accessibility is
not to make every game accessible to every disability. Our job is to use
accessible gaming as a tool to help more disabled gamers get into a wider
swath of games. We cannot save the world from having barriers, we just need
to remove the ones we can.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>wrote:

>  Hi,****
>
> it is a paper: ?do not give to others? J****
>
> But this is not only because of the paper.****
>
> It is a general problem.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *Von:* games_access-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> *Im Auftrag von *Javier Torrente (E-UCM)
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2012 16:04
> *An:* games_access at igda.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Sandra,****
>
> ** **
>
> What paper is it? It would be interesting to have a look.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> ** **
>
> Javier****
>
> 2012/6/21 <games_access-request at igda.org>****
>
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
>        games_access at igda.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        games_access-request at igda.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        games_access-owner at igda.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. something important I want to share (Sandra Uhling)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:47 +0200
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] something important I want to share
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
>        <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <001801cd4f96$b2171bc0$16455340$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello,
>
> I read a paper and I do not agree with the content.
>
> Every gamer should be able (and has the right for this)
> to play the game they like. Also when the game experience is changed or
> lost.
>
> For example DDR. It should be ok to play it like you want
> as long as it is fun (ok you should not hurt others of course)
> Play with a pad, keyboard, hand pad, ....
>
> It is wrong to think that a game need a special complex
> interface or it has to be difficulty. That is bad thinking.
>
>
> I found only three reasons "against" Accessibility.
> Serious Games:
> * the barrier is part of the aim, it is needed
> (e.g. color check, you do not need sound information here)
> * the gamers needs this skills
> (e.g. a fireman has to be able to see)
>
> AND of course it should be possible.
> (e.g. Tomb Raider for blind is not possible without making a second game)
>
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11
> *************************************************
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>

-- 
Steve Spohn
Editor-In-Chief
The AbleGamers Foundation
AbleGamers.com <http://www.ablegamers.com/> |
AbleGamers.org<http://www.ablegamers.org/>
| Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/ablegamers> |
Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/ablegamers>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:23 -0700
From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<CADWyad90p1x_zAd7_et0sW+TU9rd6BSrZQ-Rctd6foNhP24aEw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I agree, and think it's really an issue of pragmatics. Would it be nice if
someone could wave a magic wand and make every game completely accessible
to everyone? Sure, of course it would. But that's a totally unrealistic
goal, and because of that, it's somewhat limited in its usefulness.

It's easy (and something that happens often in academia) to fall into the
trap of focusing too hard on trying to find a "magic bullet" solution and
say that the only right answer is one that totally evens the playing field
for everyone. But that sort of conversation is more philosophical than
practical. It would be like if all physicists spent the last 50 years
exclusively trying to discover the Grand Unified Theory, and didn't bother
to solve any of the more discrete challenges -- we'd have a lot of
arguments and heady publications, but not a lot of useful discoveries to
show for it.

Instead, we need to start by acknowledging that this is an imperfect
scenario. Game experiences are too varied, and the spectrum of human
capabilities so wide, that you can't make *everyone* happy. For games to be
as complex and entertaining as some players want, other players will
invariably be isolated from native participation (and that's where the job
of assistive technology researchers like myself come into play, as this is
the gap we have to bridge). That's of course not to say that the
responsibility falls off of game developers, because the success of
assistive technologies is wholly dependent on how much they are willing to
work with us and compromise. But that said, Universal Design is an
extremely challenging prospect in any design field, and maybe most so in
gaming.

Trying to maximize the ability for *as many people as possible* to play *the
games they want to play*, but realizing that it's an issue that will never
be *completely* solved, is a much better aspiration.

At least that's my two cents...

-John

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Steve Spohn <steve at ablegamers.com> wrote:

> I might be be the unpopular one here, but our jobs in game accessibility
> is not to make every game accessible to every disability. Our job is to 
> use
> accessible gaming as a tool to help more disabled gamers get into a wider
> swath of games. We cannot save the world from having barriers, we just 
> need
> to remove the ones we can.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Sandra Uhling 
> <sandra_uhling at web.de>wrote:
>
>>  Hi,****
>>
>> it is a paper: ?do not give to others? J****
>>
>> But this is not only because of the paper.****
>>
>> It is a general problem.****
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Steve Spohn
> Editor-In-Chief
> The AbleGamers Foundation
> AbleGamers.com <http://www.ablegamers.com/> | 
> AbleGamers.org<http://www.ablegamers.org/>
>  | Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/ablegamers> | 
> Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/ablegamers>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:42:13 +0100
From: "Barrie Ellis" <oneswitch at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
<games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID: <B9E8CAC528D04D77B59C6BCEF21C2495 at OneSwitchPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I don't think that's an unpopular stand point at all, Steve. I agree with 
what you said. I'm not aware of anyone who is saying that all games should 
be universally accessible. My examples of one-switch and blind accessible 
Tomb Raider are just to say that it is possible.

The access laws in the UK press for reasonably practicable change (in public 
services). I strongly believe that similar legislation for games would bring 
about faster and more effective change. Developer altruism and seeing how 
greater access has the potential to broadening their business model will 
only take this cause so far.

What would help in the meantime is a common cause, backed by a growing 
collective voice. Fragmented we are so much weaker than we should be. If 
AbleGamers think they can do it all, or SpecialEffect, or the GASIG, or 
AccessAble Games, etc. etc. - then they are severely deluded. In numbers, we 
will make faster and more powerful progress.

I do think if we can all endorse a Game Accessibility Guidelines set-up, and 
push it (perhaps pushing our own agendas with it a little too - such as One 
switch games from my side) - I think we'll start to feel like a more 
coherent movement, but one that respects that we do have different outlooks 
on things like legislation, how far to go and so on.

We need to keep helping developers to understand about barriers, and the 
benefits of removing them with an idea of how hard it will be to implement. 
But one set of root guidelines will stop us looking the fragmented bunch we 
are at the minute.

Barrie

From: Steve Spohn
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:48 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11

I might be be the unpopular one here, but our jobs in game accessibility is 
not to make every game accessible to every disability. Our job is to use 
accessible gaming as a tool to help more disabled gamers get into a wider 
swath of games. We cannot save the world from having barriers, we just need 
to remove the ones we can.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> 
wrote:

  Hi,

  it is a paper: ?do not give to others? J

  But this is not only because of the paper.

  It is a general problem.

  Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] 
Im Auftrag von Javier Torrente (E-UCM)
  Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2012 16:04
  An: games_access at igda.org
  Betreff: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11

  Hi Sandra,

  What paper is it? It would be interesting to have a look.

  Regards,

  Javier

  2012/6/21 <games_access-request at igda.org>

  Send games_access mailing list submissions to
         games_access at igda.org

  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
         http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
         games_access-request at igda.org

  You can reach the person managing the list at
         games_access-owner at igda.org

  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
  than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."

  Today's Topics:

    1. something important I want to share (Sandra Uhling)

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:47 +0200
  From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
  Subject: [games_access] something important I want to share
  To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
         <games_access at igda.org>
  Message-ID: <001801cd4f96$b2171bc0$16455340$@de>
  Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

  Hello,

  I read a paper and I do not agree with the content.

  Every gamer should be able (and has the right for this)
  to play the game they like. Also when the game experience is changed or
  lost.

  For example DDR. It should be ok to play it like you want
  as long as it is fun (ok you should not hurt others of course)
  Play with a pad, keyboard, hand pad, ....

  It is wrong to think that a game need a special complex
  interface or it has to be difficulty. That is bad thinking.

  I found only three reasons "against" Accessibility.
  Serious Games:
  * the barrier is part of the aim, it is needed
  (e.g. color check, you do not need sound information here)
  * the gamers needs this skills
  (e.g. a fireman has to be able to see)

  AND of course it should be possible.
  (e.g. Tomb Raider for blind is not possible without making a second game)

  Best regards,
  Sandra

  ------------------------------

  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

  End of games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 11
  *********************************************

  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

-- 
Steve Spohn
Editor-In-Chief
The AbleGamers Foundation
AbleGamers.com | AbleGamers.org | Facebook | Twitter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

End of games_access Digest, Vol 101, Issue 13
********************************************* 