From sheri at designdirectdeliver.com  Fri Mar  2 12:06:28 2012
From: sheri at designdirectdeliver.com (Sheri Rubin)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:06:28 -0600
Subject: [games_access] IGDA BoD Elections Have Begun!
Message-ID: <4F50FE14.2080708@designdirectdeliver.com>

Hi All,

*Voting Has Begun!
*
Just wanted to remind all of you to be sure to vote in the IGDA Board of 
Directors elections. The elections are going on now and end March 18th. 
This is your best opportunity to help select the leadership that runs 
the org and will be working to help all of us improve the IGDA and 
industry as a whole.

You should have an email from the IGDA with the voting link 
(www.bit.ly/IGDAElection) and your personalized password. If you are a 
paid professional member, and didn't get that email you should get in 
touch with James Baldwin (ops at igda.org) so he can help you get that 
straightened out.
*
Candidate Information: **
* There are 4 candidates running with 2 open seats for election. You can 
find out about them here: http://www.igda.org/elections
*
*The IGDA needs just 1,253 votes to reach quorum.

While I appreciate your support, the most important thing is to make 
sure you vote and make your voice heard.

*Personal Note:*
I am running for the Board this year. As a current, very active 
volunteer I'd love the opportunity to continue serving on your behalf 
but on the higher level that is the Board of Directors. I feel that I've 
been able to accomplish a decent amount in my time as a volunteer but 
want to try and be able to do more for the entire org and feel that this 
is the best next step to making that happen. If elected, I'm hoping to 
continue making the contributions I have so far and find more ways to 
provide professional development, community, and advocacy for all 
developers.

There are a number of good candidates running this year so be sure to 
take a look at their statements, past IGDA contributions and vote for 
the people you think will best represent your interests. If you do 
decide to give me your vote I would also like you to consider giving a 
second vote to Kate Edwards (http://kateforigdaboard.blogspot.com). She 
is also a long-time, active IGDA volunteer, has a lot of professional 
association experience, really knows how to get things done, and would 
be a great asset to the board.
*
*My goals in this election are to get elected (obviously) and see the 
IGDA hit quorum. If enough people get out and vote, we can hit quorum 
just with the votes cast for me!
*
*Can we make that happen? I think we can!

I'm happy to talk to anyone off-list about any of the statements here or 
on http://sheriforigda.org or anything else related to the IGDA in general.

With much gratitude,
Sheri Rubin
http://sheriforigda.org

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From jtorrente at e-ucm.es  Mon Mar  5 12:43:30 2012
From: jtorrente at e-ucm.es (Javier Torrente (E-UCM))
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 18:43:30 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Fun for All: II International Conference on Video
 Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility
Message-ID: <CAGrF7j2OfLCJYQWLRrAhsGvSFYkHaemiuuUqWXfRAmnxEYvqQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I've become aware of this mail list very recently and it is my first post
here, so first of all let me congratulate all the people that makes this
possible - I think it's a great initiative!

I'm wondering if any of you plan to attend the II International Conference
on Video Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility, which will
be held in Barcelona on March 22nd and 23rd. I'm planning to attend and
thought it could be a good opportunity to meet some of you "face-to-face".

Just in case it's interesting to you, here's the link:

http://jornades.uab.cat/videogamesaccess/content/program

Best Regards,

Javier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Javier Torrente*
*<e-UCM> research group*
Department of Software Engineering and Artificial Intelligence
School of Informatics
Complutense University of Madrid

Address: C Profesor Jose Garcia Santesmases sn
                28040 - Ciudad Universitaria - Madrid
                Spain

E-mail: jtorrente at e-ucm.es / jtorrente at fdi.ucm.es
Web: http://www.e-ucm.es/people/javier/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Mon Mar  5 15:33:18 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:33:18 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Fun for All: II International Conference on
	Video Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CAGrF7j2OfLCJYQWLRrAhsGvSFYkHaemiuuUqWXfRAmnxEYvqQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGrF7j2OfLCJYQWLRrAhsGvSFYkHaemiuuUqWXfRAmnxEYvqQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ECCFA04-6E08-4055-A647-802897EF8DF6@dsv.su.se>

I will be there :)

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 5Mar 2012, at 6:43 PM, Javier Torrente (E-UCM) wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've become aware of this mail list very recently and it is my first post here, so first of all let me congratulate all the people that makes this possible - I think it's a great initiative!
> 
> I'm wondering if any of you plan to attend the II International Conference on Video Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility, which will be held in Barcelona on March 22nd and 23rd. I'm planning to attend and thought it could be a good opportunity to meet some of you "face-to-face".
> 
> Just in case it's interesting to you, here's the link:
> 
> http://jornades.uab.cat/videogamesaccess/content/program
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Javier.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Javier Torrente
> <e-UCM> research group
> Department of Software Engineering and Artificial Intelligence
> School of Informatics
> Complutense University of Madrid
> 
> Address: C Profesor Jose Garcia Santesmases sn
>                 28040 - Ciudad Universitaria - Madrid
>                 Spain
> 
> E-mail: jtorrente at e-ucm.es / jtorrente at fdi.ucm.es
> Web: http://www.e-ucm.es/people/javier/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 03:09:49 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 08:09:49 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Fun for All: II International Conference onVideo
	Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility
In-Reply-To: <5ECCFA04-6E08-4055-A647-802897EF8DF6@dsv.su.se>
References: <CAGrF7j2OfLCJYQWLRrAhsGvSFYkHaemiuuUqWXfRAmnxEYvqQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ECCFA04-6E08-4055-A647-802897EF8DF6@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <8E931D333C684F178FB5FC941D61D967@OneSwitchPC>

Would love to be, but won't be. Have a fantastic and successful conference though.

Barrie


From: Thomas Westin 
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:33 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Fun for All: II International Conference onVideo Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility


I will be there :) 


Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86



On 5Mar 2012, at 6:43 PM, Javier Torrente (E-UCM) wrote:


  Hi everyone,


  I've become aware of this mail list very recently and it is my first post here, so first of all let me congratulate all the people that makes this possible - I think it's a great initiative!


  I'm wondering if any of you plan to attend the II International Conference on Video Game and Virtual Worlds Translation and Accessibility, which will be held in Barcelona on March 22nd and 23rd. I'm planning to attend and thought it could be a good opportunity to meet some of you "face-to-face".


  Just in case it's interesting to you, here's the link:


  http://jornades.uab.cat/videogamesaccess/content/program 


  Best Regards,


  Javier.


  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Javier Torrente
  <e-UCM> research group
  Department of Software Engineering and Artificial Intelligence
  School of Informatics
  Complutense University of Madrid


  Address: C Profesor Jose Garcia Santesmases sn
                  28040 - Ciudad Universitaria - Madrid
                  Spain


  E-mail: jtorrente at e-ucm.es / jtorrente at fdi.ucm.es
  Web: http://www.e-ucm.es/people/javier/
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  _______________________________________________
  games_access mailing list
  games_access at igda.org
  http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
  The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Mar  7 11:53:39 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:53:39 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
Message-ID: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>

Hello,

are there already interactive novels/books?
For example interactive audio drama?

Best regards,
Sandra



From jrporter at uw.edu  Wed Mar  7 12:11:34 2012
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John Porter)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 09:11:34 -0800
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
In-Reply-To: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
References: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
Message-ID: <000301ccfc85$5d451480$17cf3d80$@uw.edu>

Choose Your Own Adventure books, or "gamebooks," have been around for
decades, though admittedly they fell out of popularity in the 1990s. These
were second- or third-person branching narratives where the reader was faced
with decisions at key points. Depending on the choices they make, they would
turn to the appropriate page to read the outcome. I'm not sure how
successful the attempts have been, but I know several publishers have been
trying to reignite interest in the genre within the last couple years by
releasing CYOAs as iOS apps.

Also, in many ways, the text adventure can be thought of as the spiritual
successor of these books. The medium is obviously very different (a computer
program instead of a paper book) and there is a much higher degree of
interactivity (i.e. free-form wayfinding, item management, environment
interaction etc.) than just making "A or B" decisions. That said, the
fundamental nature of the experience is very much in line with what the
early CYOAs were going for.

-John

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:54 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?

Hello,

are there already interactive novels/books?
For example interactive audio drama?

Best regards,
Sandra

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From oneswitch at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 13:37:15 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:37:15 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
In-Reply-To: <000301ccfc85$5d451480$17cf3d80$@uw.edu>
References: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
	<000301ccfc85$5d451480$17cf3d80$@uw.edu>
Message-ID: <E9444CB3C12C4AC89B6B8DBEA5C62B29@OneSwitchPC>

Great answer, John. 

Some of the fledgling accessibility switch work I did in the mid 90's was based around interactive "Fighting Fantasy" books (see a bit here: http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/1/gamebooks.htm).

I wrote a switch accessible dice programme, and Yes/No selection system to enable some physically and learning disabled adults I worked for to take part in interactive stories I read out loud. Sometimes we themed these in our sensory room, with appropriate lighting, music and sound effects. Great fun.

I know Ian Livingstone has just written a new Fighting Fantasy book for the 30th anniversary of his first co-written book, Warlock of Firetop Mountain in 1982. There's some interesting stuff on 1970's text adventures, and MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) - the first ever multi-player on-line RPG - which was started in Essex University (my home county): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD  

Yes, I'm a massive geek!

Barrie
 

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 5:11 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?

> Choose Your Own Adventure books, or "gamebooks," have been around for
> decades, though admittedly they fell out of popularity in the 1990s. These
> were second- or third-person branching narratives where the reader was faced
> with decisions at key points. Depending on the choices they make, they would
> turn to the appropriate page to read the outcome. I'm not sure how
> successful the attempts have been, but I know several publishers have been
> trying to reignite interest in the genre within the last couple years by
> releasing CYOAs as iOS apps.
> 
> Also, in many ways, the text adventure can be thought of as the spiritual
> successor of these books. The medium is obviously very different (a computer
> program instead of a paper book) and there is a much higher degree of
> interactivity (i.e. free-form wayfinding, item management, environment
> interaction etc.) than just making "A or B" decisions. That said, the
> fundamental nature of the experience is very much in line with what the
> early CYOAs were going for.
> 
> -John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> are there already interactive novels/books?
> For example interactive audio drama?
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 13:41:38 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:41:38 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
In-Reply-To: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
References: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
Message-ID: <2E8EFB08C8594407A637EBBC60F48BFE@OneSwitchPC>

Also, Regret of the Wind by WARP for the SEGA Saturn and Dreamcast was a 
Japanese interactive novel, played entirely in sound alone. It's all in 
Japanese however.

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 4:53 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?

> Hello,
>
> are there already interactive novels/books?
> For example interactive audio drama?
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 



From pat.hogan.a at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 13:56:18 2012
From: pat.hogan.a at gmail.com (P Hogan)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 05:56:18 +1100
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
In-Reply-To: <000301ccfc85$5d451480$17cf3d80$@uw.edu>
References: <002401ccfc82$da913840$8fb3a8c0$@de>
	<000301ccfc85$5d451480$17cf3d80$@uw.edu>
Message-ID: <CABx6C6-9Q8NHedRsGzNaYRTD2FmwwaBGSv58eikdmnBONFwW5g@mail.gmail.com>

The video game genre known as "visual novels" are essentially choose your
own adventures, with voice and sounds accompanying static imagery.

Visual novels are particularly popular in Japan, so many are styled like
Japanese anime (cartoon), however this does not limit them to a young
audience.

You can find visual novels that are about adventure, or horror, or
relationships. Many of the most popular ones have sexual themes, however
they often have a family friendly version you can buy and experience.

Many of the popular Japanese ones also have unofficial or official English
translations.

People often think visual novels are just "porn games", but I can guarantee
you there are interesting family friendly or non-porn visual novels.

As for accessibility, I'll say a few words in regards to the most popular
visual novels (as those with lower production budgets may be lacking in
certain aspects)

Not hearing the sounds is rarely a problem, as all conversational is also
displayed as text, often along with sound effects and a narrative
description of the mood, etc.

Controls are usually limited to single button interaction, and the novel
pauses after each 'block of text', allowing you to take your time to read,
and there are rarely any timed events

Not clearly seeing what is happening on screen is a bit trickier. While
audio voicework often accompanies the text, the 'narrator', who often also
explains what is happening in the images, is not usually voiced. Usually
neither are the decisions you have to make. However, for many of the
popular novels, amateur translators have been able to extract the text from
the games on the fly, which suggests using a screen reader could be
potentially possible.

I used to be part of a small community that worked on unofficial ports of
PC visual novels to the Nintendo ds, and I remember an action/horror story
about a midnight tournament between heroes from Greek, Irish and Japanese
mythology to win a chalice of immortality. It originally had sex scenes,
however an all ages version was released that (un) surprisingly was a great
read without the smut.

Apologies to everyone for the long email, any questions let me know,
although I haven't been part of that 'scene' for a number of years.

-Pat
On Mar 8, 2012 4:11 AM, "John Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:

> Choose Your Own Adventure books, or "gamebooks," have been around for
> decades, though admittedly they fell out of popularity in the 1990s. These
> were second- or third-person branching narratives where the reader was
> faced
> with decisions at key points. Depending on the choices they make, they
> would
> turn to the appropriate page to read the outcome. I'm not sure how
> successful the attempts have been, but I know several publishers have been
> trying to reignite interest in the genre within the last couple years by
> releasing CYOAs as iOS apps.
>
> Also, in many ways, the text adventure can be thought of as the spiritual
> successor of these books. The medium is obviously very different (a
> computer
> program instead of a paper book) and there is a much higher degree of
> interactivity (i.e. free-form wayfinding, item management, environment
> interaction etc.) than just making "A or B" decisions. That said, the
> fundamental nature of the experience is very much in line with what the
> early CYOAs were going for.
>
> -John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
>
> Hello,
>
> are there already interactive novels/books?
> For example interactive audio drama?
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  7 14:13:52 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:13:52 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Are there already interactive novels/books?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.445.1331146580.79581.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.445.1331146580.79581.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W56B75D22B74F834F6DA3C91560@phx.gbl>


I've seen quite a bit on mobile, ranging from a straightforward electronic version of Barrie's favourite adventure game books (eg. 
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/choice-of-the-dragon/id348940932?mt=8) through to kids picture books with full narration and interactive elements (eg. 
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/playtales-kids-interactive/id379892783?mt=8)
Or a completely different definition of interactive books - at BETT I saw a company selling real physical educational books that came with a wand that responded to (rfid?) tags in the book, which could be programmed with sounds, speech etc.

 		 	   		  
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Mar  8 05:02:47 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:02:47 +0100
Subject: [games_access] FYI EIGA Award
Message-ID: <004c01ccfd12$9deceb10$d9c6c130$@de>

Hi,

I recommended to make a Game Accessibility Category from the start.
The plan was to make (maybe) a category when there are participants.
But that will not work. Some will not feel welcome.

One company did not take part in the "German Games Award",
because they felt not welcome. They were afraid that the 
people will not understand the game.

(The graphic is not high quality, but they have amazing great
Game Accessibility Features in Hardware and Software.)

The question for some people is can I play at all?
Can I take part in the culture?


Maybe we will need a list with interested people who would like to have
a Game Accessibility category. I will write when we need this.


Best regards,
Sandra





From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Mar  8 06:24:11 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 12:24:11 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
Message-ID: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>

Hello,

I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.

Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.

A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)

Best regards,
Sandra




From oneswitch at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 12:29:10 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:29:10 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
In-Reply-To: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>
References: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>
Message-ID: <51792EBA86CD4498864904F2FDA83627@OneSwitchPC>

I've seen it before as a game mechanic, but maybe not for menu use. If not 
implemented well, the user would need to be constantly concentrating, but I 
guess you could have a tap to start the process, doing nothing until you 
start.

Would be nice to see a video of it in action, to get a better idea of how 
innovative it is.



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning

> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
>
> Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
>
> A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Mar  8 12:31:26 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 18:31:26 +0100
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
Message-ID: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>

Hello,

I would describe it like this:

Games
* Hobby and Culture
* Service (online games)

Serious Games
* Education (schools, work) and Information
* Using Game Technology for serious products

I would add it to information and communication technology
and to service.

What do you think?

Best regards,
Sandra






From Colven at ace-centre.org.uk  Thu Mar  8 12:56:37 2012
From: Colven at ace-centre.org.uk (David Colven)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:56:37 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
In-Reply-To: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>
References: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>
Message-ID: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5E6@aceserver2>

By no means.  This method of scanning has been around since the early
'80s.  It is usually named user scan or hold down scan and various other
names.  For a more complete guide to scanning please have a look at a
guide I wrote with Simon Judge from Barnsley General Hospital a few
years ago.

Switch Access to Technology on the ACE Web site www.ace-centre.org.uk

http://www.ace-centre.org.uk/index.cfm?pageid=01AC8F54-3048-7290-FE3D372
D6EF105B1&productid=01AC5664-3048-7290-FE07CFA10C4BAA07

Sorry for the long URL

David

David Colven
Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant

The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
92 Windmill Road
Headington
Oxford
OX3 7DR

Direct - 01865 759813
Office - 01865 759800
Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk

The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be
privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents
of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's
consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan
all attachments.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> 
> Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> 
> A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Mar  8 13:09:16 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:09:16 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
In-Reply-To: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5E6@aceserver2>
References: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de>
	<EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5E6@aceserver2>
Message-ID: <002a01ccfd56$937a91c0$ba6fb540$@de>

Merci :-)

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von David Colven
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2012 18:57
An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Active scanning

By no means.  This method of scanning has been around since the early
'80s.  It is usually named user scan or hold down scan and various other
names.  For a more complete guide to scanning please have a look at a
guide I wrote with Simon Judge from Barnsley General Hospital a few
years ago.

Switch Access to Technology on the ACE Web site www.ace-centre.org.uk

http://www.ace-centre.org.uk/index.cfm?pageid=01AC8F54-3048-7290-FE3D372
D6EF105B1&productid=01AC5664-3048-7290-FE07CFA10C4BAA07

Sorry for the long URL

David

David Colven
Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant

The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
92 Windmill Road
Headington
Oxford
OX3 7DR

Direct - 01865 759813
Office - 01865 759800
Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk

The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be
privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents
of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's
consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan
all attachments.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> 
> Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> 
> A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Fri Mar  9 04:13:36 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 10:13:36 +0100
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
References: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
Message-ID: <9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>

The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 

So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).

Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:

> Games
> * Hobby and Culture
> * Service (online games)
> 
> Serious Games
> * Education (schools, work) and Information
> * Using Game Technology for serious products

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 04:40:11 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:40:11 -0000
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
References: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
	<9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <B726818F64EA4EA69260CD5477065D19@OneSwitchPC>

I've not thought tons on it, but I like "Games" for those where the aim is mainly for entertainment and "Educational Games" where the intent is primarily to provide a learning environment above fun. Serious is a bit meaningless to me, and Casual is a bit meaningless for someone like Billy Mitchell who dedicated huge swathes of his life to games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. "Accessible Games" are those that you can play as an individual. They're my feelings at the minute.

Barrie


From: Thomas Westin 
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 9:13 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?


The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 


So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).


Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 


Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86



On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:


  Games
  * Hobby and Culture
  * Service (online games)

  Serious Games
  * Education (schools, work) and Information
  * Using Game Technology for serious products




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From richard at audiogames.net  Fri Mar  9 08:19:52 2012
From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net))
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:19:52 +0100
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
References: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
	<9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <4F5A0378.9060201@audiogames.net>

Hi,

For several years now I've been a team member of the Applied Game Design 
research group here at the Utrecht School of the Arts. I favor the term 
"applied games".

Greets,

Richard


On 9-3-2012 10:13, Thomas Westin wrote:
> The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The 
> same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, 
> casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in 
> itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a 
> game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which 
> was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term).
>
> So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with 
> "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on 
> the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two 
> projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have 
> been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without 
> modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).
>
> Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment 
> contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it 
> is just too awkward.
>
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se <http://dsv.su.se> :: +46 73-707 86 86
>
> On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
>
>> Games
>> * Hobby and Culture
>> * Service (online games)
>>
>> Serious Games
>> * Education (schools, work) and Information
>> * Using Game Technology for serious products
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Mar  9 08:41:54 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:41:54 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
Message-ID: <000a01ccfdfa$644470c0$2ccd5240$@de>

Hello,

well it looks like that I found the reason for a wrong information.

We learnt that Blue Byte is looking for tester with a disability at the
gamescom.
This information is a little bit wrong.

YES: Blue Byte is working on "Accessibility". This is true.
BUT: They mean "Usability". Easy for beginner.


See article in making games: (German)
http://www.makinggames.de/index.php/magazin/1734_spielspa_erforschen

Best regards,
Sandra 



From i_h at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  9 10:06:15 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 15:06:15 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1331305204.12780.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.9.1331305204.12780.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W279F83DB3C17FB2A5D984591540@phx.gbl>


That's really disappointing, when I spoke to that BB artist at GamesCom and he mentioned that accessibility was now a success criteria on all of their projects I was pretty excited to say the least. Still, at least they're thinking in the right kind of direction I guess.
Seems a bit odd though, seeing as he had just spent the day in a game accessibility room that was explicitly about disabilities.
Perhaps they actually are doing both? Low barrier to entry, and disability-friendly?
I have his business card at home somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out and ask him.
Ian
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:41:54 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <000a01ccfdfa$644470c0$2ccd5240$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> well it looks like that I found the reason for a wrong information.
> 
> We learnt that Blue Byte is looking for tester with a disability at the
> gamescom.
> This information is a little bit wrong.
> 
> YES: Blue Byte is working on "Accessibility". This is true.
> BUT: They mean "Usability". Easy for beginner.
> 
> 
> See article in making games: (German)
> http://www.makinggames.de/index.php/magazin/1734_spielspa_erforschen
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 8
> *******************************************
 		 	   		  
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  9 10:13:27 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 15:13:27 +0000
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.633.1331286015.39788.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.633.1331286015.39788.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W558C3283D9049EC89860991540@phx.gbl>


In terms of the UN CRPD the main areas that games fall under are leisure, culture and in some cases communication.
> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 7
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 04:40:15 -0500
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> 	games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Active scanning (Barrie Ellis)
>    2. UN CRPD - what are games? (Sandra Uhling)
>    3. Re: Active scanning (David Colven)
>    4. Re: Active scanning (Sandra Uhling)
>    5. Re: UN CRPD - what are games? (Thomas Westin)
>    6. Re: UN CRPD - what are games? (Barrie Ellis)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:29:10 -0000
> From: "Barrie Ellis" <oneswitch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <51792EBA86CD4498864904F2FDA83627 at OneSwitchPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> I've seen it before as a game mechanic, but maybe not for menu use. If not 
> implemented well, the user would need to be constantly concentrating, but I 
> guess you could have a tap to start the process, doing nothing until you 
> start.
> 
> Would be nice to see a video of it in action, to get a better idea of how 
> innovative it is.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> >
> > Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> > one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> >
> > A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> > The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> > the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 18:31:26 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I would describe it like this:
> 
> Games
> * Hobby and Culture
> * Service (online games)
> 
> Serious Games
> * Education (schools, work) and Information
> * Using Game Technology for serious products
> 
> I would add it to information and communication technology
> and to service.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:56:37 -0000
> From: "David Colven" <Colven at ace-centre.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5E6 at aceserver2>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> By no means.  This method of scanning has been around since the early
> '80s.  It is usually named user scan or hold down scan and various other
> names.  For a more complete guide to scanning please have a look at a
> guide I wrote with Simon Judge from Barnsley General Hospital a few
> years ago.
> 
> Switch Access to Technology on the ACE Web site www.ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> http://www.ace-centre.org.uk/index.cfm?pageid=01AC8F54-3048-7290-FE3D372
> D6EF105B1&productid=01AC5664-3048-7290-FE07CFA10C4BAA07
> 
> Sorry for the long URL
> 
> David
> 
> David Colven
> Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant
> 
> The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
> 92 Windmill Road
> Headington
> Oxford
> OX3 7DR
> 
> Direct - 01865 759813
> Office - 01865 759800
> Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
> The information contained in this email is confidential and may be
> privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents
> of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's
> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan
> all attachments.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> > On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> > To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> > Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> > 
> > Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> > one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> > 
> > A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> > The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> > the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:09:16 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <002a01ccfd56$937a91c0$ba6fb540$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Merci :-)
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von David Colven
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2012 18:57
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> By no means.  This method of scanning has been around since the early
> '80s.  It is usually named user scan or hold down scan and various other
> names.  For a more complete guide to scanning please have a look at a
> guide I wrote with Simon Judge from Barnsley General Hospital a few
> years ago.
> 
> Switch Access to Technology on the ACE Web site www.ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> http://www.ace-centre.org.uk/index.cfm?pageid=01AC8F54-3048-7290-FE3D372
> D6EF105B1&productid=01AC5664-3048-7290-FE07CFA10C4BAA07
> 
> Sorry for the long URL
> 
> David
> 
> David Colven
> Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant
> 
> The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
> 92 Windmill Road
> Headington
> Oxford
> OX3 7DR
> 
> Direct - 01865 759813
> Office - 01865 759800
> Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
> The information contained in this email is confidential and may be
> privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents
> of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's
> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan
> all attachments.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> > On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> > To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> > Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> > 
> > Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> > one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> > 
> > A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> > The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> > the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 10:13:36 +0100
> From: Thomas Westin <thomasw at dsv.su.se>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5 at dsv.su.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 
> 
> So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).
> 
> Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 
> 
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
> 
> On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
> 
> > Games
> > * Hobby and Culture
> > * Service (online games)
> > 
> > Serious Games
> > * Education (schools, work) and Information
> > * Using Game Technology for serious products
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:40:11 -0000
> From: "Barrie Ellis" <oneswitch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <B726818F64EA4EA69260CD5477065D19 at OneSwitchPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I've not thought tons on it, but I like "Games" for those where the aim is mainly for entertainment and "Educational Games" where the intent is primarily to provide a learning environment above fun. Serious is a bit meaningless to me, and Casual is a bit meaningless for someone like Billy Mitchell who dedicated huge swathes of his life to games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. "Accessible Games" are those that you can play as an individual. They're my feelings at the minute.
> 
> Barrie
> 
> 
> From: Thomas Westin 
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 9:13 AM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
> 
> 
> The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 
> 
> 
> So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).
> 
> 
> Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 
> 
> 
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
> 
> 
> 
> On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
> 
> 
>   Games
>   * Hobby and Culture
>   * Service (online games)
> 
>   Serious Games
>   * Education (schools, work) and Information
>   * Using Game Technology for serious products
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 7
> *******************************************
 		 	   		  
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Mar  9 10:21:28 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 16:21:28 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing / game
	accessibility event at gamescom 2011
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W279F83DB3C17FB2A5D984591540@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.9.1331305204.12780.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W279F83DB3C17FB2A5D984591540@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000601ccfe08$4cfaf390$e6f0dab0$@de>

I am very very very very very very sorry.
This is the truth. I have a big big big mindmap with precondition about
Accessibility.
This is live, this is the truth, we will always face very stupid arguments.

I am used to it.

He belongs to Pirate Gaming e.V. Imagine, this group supported Game
Accessibility
a short time! They wanted to be supporter of this topic ... 

Another guy of Pirate Gaming e.V. made the check of our information for each
game.
And... he was the guy who wrote a very very very very very bad article about
the event
the next days.

For example he wrote that the company who made this possible, did not make
PR.
I explained him earlier that they made PR, but they did not get the
allowance to use
the text. He was part of the team. He could have made PR himself....

He also wrote that there is no interest in this topic.
Well we had "My Golf Game" with information that is was developed with
support of EA.
We also had one station with Kinect saying that MS is doing events to learn
more about it.
We also had support by EA and Valve to make this event.
Also he should have considered that everyone is very busy at the gamescom.
There was also a parallel main event with no breaks.


It will always be the same: people who say: wow great topic, very
interesting ...
But in reality they just wanted to be social, do some charity ...

Because of this and other things I wrote a philosophy text with some rules
about
partnerships. Control over text for public is one part of it.

At the moment the philosophy and the mind map about precondition are only in
German.


(Pirate Gaming e.V. has one great guy, but he has no more time, he is going
to become
a politician ...)



Best regards,
Sandra



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Ian Hamilton
Gesendet: Freitag, 9. M?rz 2012 16:06
An: games_access at igda.org
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing

That's really disappointing, when I spoke to that BB artist at GamesCom and
he mentioned that accessibility was now a success criteria on all of their
projects I was pretty excited to say the least. Still, at least they're
thinking in the right kind of direction I guess.

Seems a bit odd though, seeing as he had just spent the day in a game
accessibility room that was explicitly about disabilities.

Perhaps they actually are doing both? Low barrier to entry, and
disability-friendly?

I have his business card at home somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out and
ask him.

Ian

> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:41:54 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <000a01ccfdfa$644470c0$2ccd5240$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> well it looks like that I found the reason for a wrong information.
> 
> We learnt that Blue Byte is looking for tester with a disability at 
> the gamescom.
> This information is a little bit wrong.
> 
> YES: Blue Byte is working on "Accessibility". This is true.
> BUT: They mean "Usability". Easy for beginner.
> 
> 
> See article in making games: (German)
> http://www.makinggames.de/index.php/magazin/1734_spielspa_erforschen
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 8
> *******************************************




From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 10 12:53:09 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:09 +0000
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>

Shame, on a more positive note though here's an accessibility article on the PC Gamer website, including tips from several IGDA-GASIG people, off the back of Tara's gamjam accessibility challenge. 

As always with stuff like this it's a great awareness raiser so please tweet etc about it if you can:

 http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/03/five-tricks-developers-should-use-to-help-disabled-gamers/

What's particularly nice about it is the comments section. Most game accessibility articles end with obnoxious people spouting about how people with disabilities have no right to want to play games, but this time it's a bunch of disabled gamers discussing which features are most valuable for them and how and why gaming is so important to them, with one person even saying that reading the article restored some of his faith in humanity.. a very nice read.

> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 10
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 10:00:04 -0500
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> 	games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing / game	accessibility
>       event at gamescom 2011 (Sandra Uhling)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 16:21:28 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing / game
> 	accessibility event at gamescom 2011
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <000601ccfe08$4cfaf390$e6f0dab0$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I am very very very very very very sorry.
> This is the truth. I have a big big big mindmap with precondition about
> Accessibility.
> This is live, this is the truth, we will always face very stupid arguments.
> 
> I am used to it.
> 
> He belongs to Pirate Gaming e.V. Imagine, this group supported Game
> Accessibility
> a short time! They wanted to be supporter of this topic ... 
> 
> Another guy of Pirate Gaming e.V. made the check of our information for each
> game.
> And... he was the guy who wrote a very very very very very bad article about
> the event
> the next days.
> 
> For example he wrote that the company who made this possible, did not make
> PR.
> I explained him earlier that they made PR, but they did not get the
> allowance to use
> the text. He was part of the team. He could have made PR himself....
> 
> He also wrote that there is no interest in this topic.
> Well we had "My Golf Game" with information that is was developed with
> support of EA.
> We also had one station with Kinect saying that MS is doing events to learn
> more about it.
> We also had support by EA and Valve to make this event.
> Also he should have considered that everyone is very busy at the gamescom.
> There was also a parallel main event with no breaks.
> 
> 
> It will always be the same: people who say: wow great topic, very
> interesting ...
> But in reality they just wanted to be social, do some charity ...
> 
> Because of this and other things I wrote a philosophy text with some rules
> about
> partnerships. Control over text for public is one part of it.
> 
> At the moment the philosophy and the mind map about precondition are only in
> German.
> 
> 
> (Pirate Gaming e.V. has one great guy, but he has no more time, he is going
> to become
> a politician ...)
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von Ian Hamilton
> Gesendet: Freitag, 9. M?rz 2012 16:06
> An: games_access at igda.org
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
> 
> That's really disappointing, when I spoke to that BB artist at GamesCom and
> he mentioned that accessibility was now a success criteria on all of their
> projects I was pretty excited to say the least. Still, at least they're
> thinking in the right kind of direction I guess.
> 
> Seems a bit odd though, seeing as he had just spent the day in a game
> accessibility room that was explicitly about disabilities.
> 
> Perhaps they actually are doing both? Low barrier to entry, and
> disability-friendly?
> 
> I have his business card at home somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out and
> ask him.
> 
> Ian
> 
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:41:54 +0100
> > From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> > Subject: [games_access] Blue Byte and Accessibility Testing
> > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> > <games_access at igda.org>
> > Message-ID: <000a01ccfdfa$644470c0$2ccd5240$@de>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > well it looks like that I found the reason for a wrong information.
> > 
> > We learnt that Blue Byte is looking for tester with a disability at 
> > the gamescom.
> > This information is a little bit wrong.
> > 
> > YES: Blue Byte is working on "Accessibility". This is true.
> > BUT: They mean "Usability". Easy for beginner.
> > 
> > 
> > See article in making games: (German)
> > http://www.makinggames.de/index.php/magazin/1734_spielspa_erforschen
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> > 
> > End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 8
> > *******************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 10
> ********************************************
 		 	   		  
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Mar 10 13:25:50 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:25:50 +0100
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de>

Hi Ian,

the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
Easy to read and understand.

Best regards,
Sandra




From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Sat Mar 10 18:50:51 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:50:51 +0100
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <B726818F64EA4EA69260CD5477065D19@OneSwitchPC>
References: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
	<9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
	<B726818F64EA4EA69260CD5477065D19@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <0C8B838A-FDE7-4196-BDD9-6799C73B0A78@dsv.su.se>

Yes, I have no problem with "accessible games" since that describes that the games are accessible, i.e. by design (or by luck). 

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 9Mar 2012, at 10:40 AM, Barrie Ellis wrote:

> I've not thought tons on it, but I like "Games" for those where the aim is mainly for entertainment and "Educational Games" where the intent is primarily to provide a learning environment above fun. Serious is a bit meaningless to me, and Casual is a bit meaningless for someone like Billy Mitchell who dedicated huge swathes of his life to games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. "Accessible Games" are those that you can play as an individual. They're my feelings at the minute.
>  
> Barrie
> 
> From: Thomas Westin
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 9:13 AM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
> 
> The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 
> 
> So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).
> 
> Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 
> 
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
> 
> On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
> 
>> Games
>> * Hobby and Culture
>> * Service (online games)
>> 
>> Serious Games
>> * Education (schools, work) and Information
>> * Using Game Technology for serious products
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 04:29:50 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:29:50 -0000
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org><DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>
	<000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de>
Message-ID: <1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>

Agreed! I think we've come a long way since the likes of this: http://kotaku.com/177926/retro-remakes-big-2006-retro-remaking-contest. It seems that we're winning over the press from the myriad of articles I've seen across the years. The indie community have always been receptive. Some progress with the mainstream. It's heading in the right direction...

The break-through that's yet to come is getting hardware manufacturers on board. I grimace at every new Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo launch. None of them seem to give game accessibility a thought at more than a cursory level. Wish we could get them to listen. Wish there were more standard ways of interfacing controllers...

I know there's things moving in the background, but it's still too slow!

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:25 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

> Hi Ian,
> 
> the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
> Easy to read and understand.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From steve at ablegamers.com  Sun Mar 11 04:32:24 2012
From: steve at ablegamers.com (Steve Spohn)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:32:24 -0400
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org><DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>	<000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de>
	<1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <014b01ccff61$7c455190$74cff4b0$@ablegamers.com>

Microsoft has had AbleGamers do multiple presentations on accessibility.

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

 <http://www.gameaccessibility.org/> www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the
basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:30 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Agreed! I think we've come a long way since the likes of this:
http://kotaku.com/177926/retro-remakes-big-2006-retro-remaking-contest. It
seems that we're winning over the press from the myriad of articles I've
seen across the years. The indie community have always been receptive. Some
progress with the mainstream. It's heading in the right direction...

 

The break-through that's yet to come is getting hardware manufacturers on
board. I grimace at every new Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo launch.
None of them seem to give game accessibility a thought at more than a
cursory level. Wish we could get them to listen. Wish there were more
standard ways of interfacing controllers...

 

I know there's things moving in the background, but it's still too slow!

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:25 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

> Hi Ian,
> 
> the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
> Easy to read and understand.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 04:44:00 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:44:00 -0000
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <014b01ccff61$7c455190$74cff4b0$@ablegamers.com>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org><DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>	<000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de><1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>
	<014b01ccff61$7c455190$74cff4b0$@ablegamers.com>
Message-ID: <6B2730560E9B46C4AA5DFDA178C9F748@OneSwitchPC>

Do you think they've taken anything on board for Xbox 720 or whatever it's to be called though? Microsoft have flirted with the Game Accessibility community at large, as have the others - but I don't see any particular benefits filtering through. And I'm dreading the Wii-U.

Barrie


From: Steve Spohn 
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:32 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article


Microsoft has had AbleGamers do multiple presentations on accessibility.

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:30 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Agreed! I think we've come a long way since the likes of this: http://kotaku.com/177926/retro-remakes-big-2006-retro-remaking-contest. It seems that we're winning over the press from the myriad of articles I've seen across the years. The indie community have always been receptive. Some progress with the mainstream. It's heading in the right direction...

 

The break-through that's yet to come is getting hardware manufacturers on board. I grimace at every new Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo launch. None of them seem to give game accessibility a thought at more than a cursory level. Wish we could get them to listen. Wish there were more standard ways of interfacing controllers...

 

I know there's things moving in the background, but it's still too slow!

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:25 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

> Hi Ian,
> 
> the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
> Easy to read and understand.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From steve at ablegamers.com  Sun Mar 11 04:46:34 2012
From: steve at ablegamers.com (Steve Spohn)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:46:34 -0400
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <6B2730560E9B46C4AA5DFDA178C9F748@OneSwitchPC>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org><DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>	<000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de><1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>	<014b01ccff61$7c455190$74cff4b0$@ablegamers.com>
	<6B2730560E9B46C4AA5DFDA178C9F748@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <015901ccff63$77252530$656f6f90$@ablegamers.com>

All I can legally say is these meetings bore fruit. Hopefully it carries
over to the 720

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

 <http://www.gameaccessibility.org/> www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the
basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:44 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Do you think they've taken anything on board for Xbox 720 or whatever it's
to be called though? Microsoft have flirted with the Game Accessibility
community at large, as have the others - but I don't see any particular
benefits filtering through. And I'm dreading the Wii-U.

 

Barrie

 

From: Steve Spohn <mailto:steve at ablegamers.com>  

Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:32 AM

To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
<mailto:games_access at igda.org>  

Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Microsoft has had AbleGamers do multiple presentations on accessibility.

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:30 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Agreed! I think we've come a long way since the likes of this:
http://kotaku.com/177926/retro-remakes-big-2006-retro-remaking-contest. It
seems that we're winning over the press from the myriad of articles I've
seen across the years. The indie community have always been receptive. Some
progress with the mainstream. It's heading in the right direction...

 

The break-through that's yet to come is getting hardware manufacturers on
board. I grimace at every new Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo launch.
None of them seem to give game accessibility a thought at more than a
cursory level. Wish we could get them to listen. Wish there were more
standard ways of interfacing controllers...

 

I know there's things moving in the background, but it's still too slow!

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:25 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

> Hi Ian,
> 
> the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
> Easy to read and understand.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12

  _____  

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 04:54:49 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:54:49 -0000
Subject: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
In-Reply-To: <015901ccff63$77252530$656f6f90$@ablegamers.com>
References: <mailman.15.1331391604.71230.games_access@igda.org><DUB114-W124F7644F7E7D1676BEBFFC91550@phx.gbl>	<000601ccfeeb$3915ee50$ab41caf0$@de><1D1B7115491C45E482830C74EDFEDBD3@OneSwitchPC>	<014b01ccff61$7c455190$74cff4b0$@ablegamers.com><6B2730560E9B46C4AA5DFDA178C9F748@OneSwitchPC>
	<015901ccff63$77252530$656f6f90$@ablegamers.com>
Message-ID: <346A621E246647718DDB055724C4C440@OneSwitchPC>

Fingers crossed. I know Microsoft received a lot of accessibility information from the community at large around the time of the Kinect consultation, and were given a meaty document from SpecialEffect re. future OS and console development, so I'm hoping the stuff raised there that will be remembered too.

Have you had any luck breaking through to Apple? Switch access is a terrible mess for the iOS devices, and if they'd only allowed for basic mouse access too - they'd have really opened up the platform usability wise.

Barrie


From: Steve Spohn 
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:46 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article


All I can legally say is these meetings bore fruit. Hopefully it carries over to the 720

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:44 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Do you think they've taken anything on board for Xbox 720 or whatever it's to be called though? Microsoft have flirted with the Game Accessibility community at large, as have the others - but I don't see any particular benefits filtering through. And I'm dreading the Wii-U.

 

Barrie

 

From: Steve Spohn 

Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:32 AM

To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 

Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Microsoft has had AbleGamers do multiple presentations on accessibility.

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:30 AM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

 

Agreed! I think we've come a long way since the likes of this: http://kotaku.com/177926/retro-remakes-big-2006-retro-remaking-contest. It seems that we're winning over the press from the myriad of articles I've seen across the years. The indie community have always been receptive. Some progress with the mainstream. It's heading in the right direction...

 

The break-through that's yet to come is getting hardware manufacturers on board. I grimace at every new Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo launch. None of them seem to give game accessibility a thought at more than a cursory level. Wish we could get them to listen. Wish there were more standard ways of interfacing controllers...

 

I know there's things moving in the background, but it's still too slow!

Barrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:25 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article

> Hi Ian,
> 
> the article is amazing. It is a great start for beginners.
> Easy to read and understand.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4863 - Release Date: 03/10/12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 11 06:24:56 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?aV9oQGhvdG1haWwuY29t?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:24:56 +0000
Subject: [games_access]
	=?utf-8?q?PC_Gamer_accessibility_article_=28Steve_?=
	=?utf-8?q?Spohn=29?=
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1234327E6CD82F74954A608915A0@phx.gbl>


Not sure if this is related to what you've been talking about with them Steve, but they have some good Kinect sign language research going on, they already have Makaton recognition working and are looking at ASL / BSL next. 

The bad thing about MS as an organisation is that they have such high internal turnover, without consistent people in place it's difficult to get momentum behind things. Luckily though accessibility is a bit of an exception, they have a good guy there who has bucked the trend and stayed in the same area for a long time now.

Also something else on the positive side, we're no longer tied to hardware launch cycles. So much great stuff can be done just via a software update, so if their current efforts do well and get some good corporate weight behind them then other really valuable things could follow soon after. Although plenty still has to come from developers, there's also a lot of really valuable stuff that could easily be taken care of at a console level via some simple unobtrusive options.

Nintendo are a total lost cause at the moment and have said some pretty disgraceful things, but if Sony see MS capturing new audiences through simple innovations they'll be quick to imitate.

Momentum is indeed continuing to build and we will undoubtedly get there, especially as game and console developers continue to get older themselves. At the moment it's still almost all advocacy with very little consultancy, but that balance will continue to shift. This time next year things will be quite different.

Games are now such a ubiquitous cultural phenomenon that it's inevitable, and there are other industries that have already gone through exactly the same process that we can look to for examples of how it happens.

----- Reply message -----
From: games_access-request at igda.org
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 13
Date: Sun, Mar 11, 2012 08:54
From: "Steve Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>
Subject: Re: [games_access] PC Gamer accessibility article
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
	<games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID: <015901ccff63$77252530$656f6f90$@ablegamers.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

All I can legally say is these meetings bore fruit. Hopefully it carries
over to the 720



Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation



www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

o******************************
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 18:22:56 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:22:56 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Support for Charlotte at SpecialEffect
Message-ID: <6B1921DEEE3244A7A54E1674ABDFDD5B@OneSwitchPC>

Thought I'd post this on. Lovely little video: http://www.specialeffect.org.uk/pages/news85.htm

The Wii remote was a bit of a swine to adapt, but nice and light-weight for removing the batteries.
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From Colven at ace-centre.org.uk  Mon Mar 12 06:19:35 2012
From: Colven at ace-centre.org.uk (David Colven)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:19:35 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
In-Reply-To: <002a01ccfd56$937a91c0$ba6fb540$@de>
References: <000001ccfd1d$fd2e2340$f78a69c0$@de><EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5E6@aceserver2>
	<002a01ccfd56$937a91c0$ba6fb540$@de>
Message-ID: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB88F5FD@aceserver2>

The other term slipped my mine - it is sometimes called 'inverse scanning'

David

David Colven
Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant

The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
92 Windmill Road
Headington
Oxford
OX3 7DR

Direct - 01865 759813
Office - 01865 759800
Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk

The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan all attachments.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 6:09 PM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> Merci :-)
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> Im
> Auftrag von David Colven
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2012 18:57
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Active scanning
> 
> By no means.  This method of scanning has been around since the early
> '80s.  It is usually named user scan or hold down scan and various other
> names.  For a more complete guide to scanning please have a look at a
> guide I wrote with Simon Judge from Barnsley General Hospital a few
> years ago.
> 
> Switch Access to Technology on the ACE Web site www.ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> http://www.ace-centre.org.uk/index.cfm?pageid=01AC8F54-3048-7290-FE3D372
> D6EF105B1&productid=01AC5664-3048-7290-FE07CFA10C4BAA07
> 
> Sorry for the long URL
> 
> David
> 
> David Colven
> Accessibility Advisor and Assistive Technology Consultant
> 
> The ACE Centre Advisory Trust
> 92 Windmill Road
> Headington
> Oxford
> OX3 7DR
> 
> Direct - 01865 759813
> Office - 01865 759800
> Email - colven at ace-centre.org.uk
> 
> The ACE Centre is a registered charity (no 1040868)
> The information contained in this email is confidential and may be
> privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete this email immediately. The contents
> of this email must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's
> consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan
> all attachments.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org
> [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> > On Behalf Of Sandra Uhling
> > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:24 AM
> > To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> > Subject: [games_access] Active scanning
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to know if "active scanning" is an innovation.
> >
> > Usually scanning is passive: The focus moves automatically from
> > one point to the next. And the user has to wait to push the button.
> >
> > A company from Germany has additionally active scanning.
> > The user pushes the button to move the focus. When he reaches
> > the point he wants, he wait. (similar to dwelling menu)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Tue Mar 13 10:16:43 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:16:43 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Fwd: App turns Android tabs into math tools for the
	visually impaired (video)
References: <BEA00AD4-AEEC-4801-880D-10FC9F33093C@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <87A55AD5-B63B-462C-BC87-0242A2DF9A72@dsv.su.se>

found this

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/07/android-app-for-the-visually-impaired/


Kind regards,
Thomas

(Sent from my mobile)



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Mar 13 18:51:33 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:51:33 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Screenshot of nice logging: Subtitle and Story
Message-ID: <003501cd016b$d723f9c0$856bed40$@de>

Hi,

I made a screenshot of a nice logging
of subtitles and story.

It is some kind of interactive story.
"ever17".

Send an email off-list when you want the screenshots.

Best regards,
Sandra



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Mar 16 06:26:56 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:26:56 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Misuse of the term Accessibility
Message-ID: <003b01cd035f$50ba5e60$f22f1b20$@de>

Hello,

well it was some kind of funny until now.

But this is something I really do not like:
Two students from Germany were looking for interview partner.
The company we talked about said to them they would be expert in
the topic accessibility.

I do not like this. Students usually do not have time to waste.
They thought they would have an interview partner. But I said
to them that they have to look for other partners. It was only luck
that we know this.


Is there a possibility to save at least the term "Game Accessibility"?
That could be useful.


Best regards,
Sandra



From i_h at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 16 10:45:37 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:45:37 +0000
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1331906405.18197.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.9.1331906405.18197.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W4099287536C2BC7BE1C757915F0@phx.gbl>


In my mind at least there's just a problem in the games industry, not with the terminology. In other industries accessibility explicitly means disabilities, but for games it has also been used to describe low barrier to entry. 
Lack of consistency like that doesn't do anyone any favours, so instead of changing the terminology we should be changing people in the games industry's idea of what the correct terminology actually means.

> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:00:05 -0400
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> 	games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Misuse of the term Accessibility (Sandra Uhling)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:26:56 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] Misuse of the term Accessibility
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <003b01cd035f$50ba5e60$f22f1b20$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> well it was some kind of funny until now.
> 
> But this is something I really do not like:
> Two students from Germany were looking for interview partner.
> The company we talked about said to them they would be expert in
> the topic accessibility.
> 
> I do not like this. Students usually do not have time to waste.
> They thought they would have an interview partner. But I said
> to them that they have to look for other partners. It was only luck
> that we know this.
> 
> 
> Is there a possibility to save at least the term "Game Accessibility"?
> That could be useful.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> ********************************************
 		 	   		  
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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Fri Mar 16 11:12:53 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:12:53 +0100
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W4099287536C2BC7BE1C757915F0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.9.1331906405.18197.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W4099287536C2BC7BE1C757915F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001901cd0387$43257910$c9706b30$@de>

Hi,

Maybe request at higher level to proper use the term would be useful?
Something like IGDA, and local organizations?

They could inform their members in a newsletter.

With best regards,
Sandra

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Ian Hamilton
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. M?rz 2012 15:46
An: games_access at igda.org
Betreff: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17

In my mind at least there's just a problem in the games industry, not with
the terminology. In other industries accessibility explicitly means
disabilities, but for games it has also been used to describe low barrier to
entry. 

Lack of consistency like that doesn't do anyone any favours, so instead of
changing the terminology we should be changing people in the games
industry's idea of what the correct terminology actually means.


> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:00:05 -0400
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
> games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at 
> games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Misuse of the term Accessibility (Sandra Uhling)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:26:56 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] Misuse of the term Accessibility
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <003b01cd035f$50ba5e60$f22f1b20$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> well it was some kind of funny until now.
> 
> But this is something I really do not like:
> Two students from Germany were looking for interview partner.
> The company we talked about said to them they would be expert in the 
> topic accessibility.
> 
> I do not like this. Students usually do not have time to waste.
> They thought they would have an interview partner. But I said to them 
> that they have to look for other partners. It was only luck that we 
> know this.
> 
> 
> Is there a possibility to save at least the term "Game Accessibility"?
> That could be useful.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> ********************************************




From lgraham at blitzgamesstudios.com  Fri Mar 16 11:26:18 2012
From: lgraham at blitzgamesstudios.com (Lynsey Graham)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:26:18 +0000
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W4099287536C2BC7BE1C757915F0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.9.1331906405.18197.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W4099287536C2BC7BE1C757915F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <18618270-7b6d-4eb6-9e5f-07288f534627@blitzgamesstudios.com>

Indeed - for a lot of people in the industry 'accessibility' is used interchangeably with 'inclusivity' or sometimes even 'usability'.  Sadly for a lot of devs, the idea of incorporating accessibility features for disabled players hasn't even crossed their mind, not because of callousness or disregard, but simply because of a lack of awareness.
 
Unfortunately I don't think widespread awareness amongst developers will occur until the console manufacturers or the publishers start pushing for accessibility features as standard. Until then, it's just a matter of reaching out to developers and trying to encourage awareness and hopefully implementation of accessibility features, and hoping that knowledge will spread within the industry. 
 
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Ian Hamilton
Sent: 16 March 2012 14:46
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
 
In my mind at least there's just a problem in the games industry, not with the terminology. In other industries accessibility explicitly means disabilities, but for games it has also been used to describe low barrier to entry. 
 
Lack of consistency like that doesn't do anyone any favours, so instead of changing the terminology we should be changing people in the games industry's idea of what the correct terminology actually means.
> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:00:05 -0400
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Misuse of the term Accessibility (Sandra Uhling)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:26:56 +0100
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: [games_access] Misuse of the term Accessibility
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <003b01cd035f$50ba5e60$f22f1b20$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> well it was some kind of funny until now.
> 
> But this is something I really do not like:
> Two students from Germany were looking for interview partner.
> The company we talked about said to them they would be expert in
> the topic accessibility.
> 
> I do not like this. Students usually do not have time to waste.
> They thought they would have an interview partner. But I said
> to them that they have to look for other partners. It was only luck
> that we know this.
> 
> 
> Is there a possibility to save at least the term "Game Accessibility"?
> That could be useful.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> ********************************************
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 17 10:44:11 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:44:11 +0000
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1331992805.75741.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.7.1331992805.75741.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W122A2ABDC546EC7ADE9F54F915C0@phx.gbl>



It will spread, but you're absolutely right, for cultural change to occur it can't just come from developers, developers pushing for it doesn't work if the people in charge aren't interested. 
Equally though, console manufacturers or publishers pushing for it doesn't work if the people actually doing the work aren't interested or don't know how (I've seen that first hand unfortunately). Coming from multiple directions (legal and financial pressure as well as top-down and bottom-up pushing for it) it becomes much much easier, so when raising awareness we need to hit both ends of the spectrum.
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:26:18 +0000
> From: Lynsey Graham <lgraham at blitzgamesstudios.com>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 17
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<18618270-7b6d-4eb6-9e5f-07288f534627 at blitzgamesstudios.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Indeed - for a lot of people in the industry 'accessibility' is used interchangeably with 'inclusivity' or sometimes even 'usability'.  Sadly for a lot of devs, the idea of incorporating accessibility features for disabled players hasn't even crossed their mind, not because of callousness or disregard, but simply because of a lack of awareness.
>  
> Unfortunately I don't think widespread awareness amongst developers will occur until the console manufacturers or the publishers start pushing for accessibility features as standard. Until then, it's just a matter of reaching out to developers and trying to encourage awareness and hopefully implementation of accessibility features, and hoping that knowledge will spread within the industry. 
>  

 		 	   		  
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From blazeeagle at suddenlink.net  Sun Mar 18 12:17:24 2012
From: blazeeagle at suddenlink.net (blazeeagle at suddenlink.net)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:17:24 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
Message-ID: <3686C6710C3E46ECB1F4F140A435CBC0@Aarons>

Accessibility doesn?t exclusively imply disability. Able bodied folks can also experience accessibility issues. Accessibility is a wide ranging issue. Accessibility applies whether one is disabled or able bodied. Each segment has unique accessibility requirements.

Accessibility is highly individualized because whether disabled or not, Accessibility is so varied that a ?one size fits all? solution is inadequate.

An individualized accessibility program seems to be the logical solution.
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From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Mon Mar 19 03:00:58 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:00:58 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
In-Reply-To: <3686C6710C3E46ECB1F4F140A435CBC0@Aarons>
References: <3686C6710C3E46ECB1F4F140A435CBC0@Aarons>
Message-ID: <6F1310D2-8389-4C78-A0DC-50566AF397C1@dsv.su.se>

I agree; I made a study a few years ago with 500 gamers in general (not focused on disabled gamers); the result is that they have similar issues with games as disabled gamers, although less urgent in general.

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 18Mar 2012, at 5:17 PM, blazeeagle at suddenlink.net wrote:

> Accessibility doesn?t exclusively imply disability. Able bodied folks can also experience accessibility issues. Accessibility is a wide ranging issue. Accessibility applies whether one is disabled or able bodied. Each segment has unique accessibility requirements.
>  
> Accessibility is highly individualized because whether disabled or not, Accessibility is so varied that a ?one size fits all? solution is inadequate.
>  
> An individualized accessibility program seems to be the logical solution.
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 19 10:31:35 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:31:35 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1332165604.80340.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5.1332165604.80340.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W11743963B1378BB4574091E91420@phx.gbl>



Accessibility does explicitly imply disability, it is used as legal terminology specifically in relation to disability around the world, including the UN CRPD.
It's a completely valid point about the issues affecting more people, I'd just have a slightly different take on it myself.. that by thinking about the barriers that people with disabilities face, you'll also be removing barriers for everyone else. So it's usability that affects everyone, and accessibility that's a specific subset of that relating to disability.
I once worked with a consultant who advocated user testing being carried out solely with people with disabilities, rather than a representative proportion.. a bit controversial, but makes perfect sense. 

> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 20
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:00:04 -0400
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> 	games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Accessibility Terminology (blazeeagle at suddenlink.net)
>    2. Re: Accessibility Terminology (Thomas Westin)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:17:24 -0400
> From: <blazeeagle at suddenlink.net>
> Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
> To: <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <3686C6710C3E46ECB1F4F140A435CBC0 at Aarons>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Accessibility doesn?t exclusively imply disability. Able bodied folks can also experience accessibility issues. Accessibility is a wide ranging issue. Accessibility applies whether one is disabled or able bodied. Each segment has unique accessibility requirements.
> 
> Accessibility is highly individualized because whether disabled or not, Accessibility is so varied that a ?one size fits all? solution is inadequate.
> 
> An individualized accessibility program seems to be the logical solution.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:00:58 +0100
> From: Thomas Westin <thomasw at dsv.su.se>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
> To: "blazeeagle at suddenlink.net" <blazeeagle at suddenlink.net>,	IGDA
> 	Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <6F1310D2-8389-4C78-A0DC-50566AF397C1 at dsv.su.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I agree; I made a study a few years ago with 500 gamers in general (not focused on disabled gamers); the result is that they have similar issues with games as disabled gamers, although less urgent in general.
> 
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
> 
> On 18Mar 2012, at 5:17 PM, blazeeagle at suddenlink.net wrote:
> 
> > Accessibility doesn?t exclusively imply disability. Able bodied folks can also experience accessibility issues. Accessibility is a wide ranging issue. Accessibility applies whether one is disabled or able bodied. Each segment has unique accessibility requirements.
> >  
> > Accessibility is highly individualized because whether disabled or not, Accessibility is so varied that a ?one size fits all? solution is inadequate.
> >  
> > An individualized accessibility program seems to be the logical solution.
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 20
> ********************************************
 		 	   		  
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From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Mon Mar 19 12:33:24 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:33:24 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W11743963B1378BB4574091E91420@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.5.1332165604.80340.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W11743963B1378BB4574091E91420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6B1FB642-E061-46C6-A02E-4A6B9D030229@dsv.su.se>

Yes that it was I tell my students too; they usually get more interesting data that way

And yes, accessibility is a legal term regarding disability, but the use of accessibility solutions may benefit more users, which I wanted to find out with my study. 

On a sidenote, accessibility is a problematic term since it may mean different things in different contexts, e.g. access to information in security research, is balanced to personal integrity etc and has little to do with the understanding of or interaction with information, as with accessibility for disabled. So when I talk to people outside of the disability context, I usually try to add "for disabled", i.e. accessibility for disabled, even this means I act against knowing better about the potential use of the solutions.

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 19Mar 2012, at 3:31 PM, Ian Hamilton wrote:

> I once worked with a consultant who advocated user testing being carried out solely with people with disabilities, rather than a representative proportion.. a bit controversial, but makes perfect sense. 

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From jrporter at uw.edu  Mon Mar 19 15:51:10 2012
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:51:10 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
In-Reply-To: <6B1FB642-E061-46C6-A02E-4A6B9D030229@dsv.su.se>
References: <mailman.5.1332165604.80340.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W11743963B1378BB4574091E91420@phx.gbl>
	<6B1FB642-E061-46C6-A02E-4A6B9D030229@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <CADWyad86amtNxfAg6L9WkzU0fx7God3pduZEYuCtik4cu__2uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Right. Like Ian said, 'accessibility' is definitely a term that explicitly
implies impairment of some sort. 'Usability' is the more general term you
hear used.

As for user testing being exclusively carried out with disabled
individuals, yeah, I've heard of it. It's often called "extreme user
testing," as per the corresponding method in the IDEO toolkit. I'm in the
user-centered design field, and while conducting user tests with the
disabled is definitely something I advocate, I would be *very* hesitant to
do it exclusively. You can get interesting data, to be sure, but it's data
about a niche user population nonetheless.

-John

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Thomas Westin <thomasw at dsv.su.se> wrote:

> Yes that it was I tell my students too; they usually get more interesting
> data that way
>
> And yes, accessibility is a legal term regarding disability, but the use
> of accessibility solutions may benefit more users, which I wanted to find
> out with my study.
>
> On a sidenote, accessibility is a problematic term since it may mean
> different things in different contexts, e.g. access to information in
> security research, is balanced to personal integrity etc and has little to
> do with the understanding of or interaction with information, as with
> accessibility for disabled. So when I talk to people outside of the
> disability context, I usually try to add "for disabled", i.e. accessibility
> for disabled, even this means I act against knowing better about the
> potential use of the solutions.
>
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
>
> On 19Mar 2012, at 3:31 PM, Ian Hamilton wrote:
>
> I once worked with a consultant who advocated user testing being carried
> out solely with people with disabilities, rather than a representative
> proportion.. a bit controversial, but makes perfect sense.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 19 16:55:55 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:55:55 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology (John R. Porter)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.537.1332186671.66258.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.537.1332186671.66258.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W806BA6AD8ADE2BB288325E91420@phx.gbl>



Bit of a UX tangent now sorry but yep the point was basically that in general terms testing with disabled people will uncover the same kind of general findings, and also extra ones due to the disability. Basically her point was about if you don't have much in the way of resources and can only test with a few people, a disabled person will be better 'value' as they'll give you a wider range of feedback. But of course ideally you'd have plenty of iterative testing with representative demographics that contain appropriate numbers of different impairments for those demographics. 
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:51:10 -0700
From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Accessibility Terminology
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID:
<CADWyad86amtNxfAg6L9WkzU0fx7God3pduZEYuCtik4cu__2uQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Right. Like Ian said, 'accessibility' is definitely a term that explicitly
implies impairment of some sort. 'Usability' is the more general term you
hear used.

As for user testing being exclusively carried out with disabled
individuals, yeah, I've heard of it. It's often called "extreme user
testing," as per the corresponding method in the IDEO toolkit. I'm in the
user-centered design field, and while conducting user tests with the
disabled is definitely something I advocate, I would be *very* hesitant to
do it exclusively. You can get interesting data, to be sure, but it's data
about a niche user population nonetheless.

-John
 		 	   		  
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 13:50:17 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:50:17 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
Message-ID: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>

Really nice article here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word-is-out-on-accessible-gaming

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From michellehinn at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 15:48:52 2012
From: michellehinn at gmail.com (Michelle Hinn)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:48:52 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
In-Reply-To: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
References: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <CA+bf7W4E5Chr2aSaW6vBH8xw71HTSk9WXAAFjqjt8yGrn7-+WQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nice! Sounds like a wonderful, amazing evening -- with the PM there at that! :)

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Barrie Ellis <oneswitch at gmail.com> wrote:
> Really nice article here:
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word-is-out-on-accessible-gaming
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>


From richard at audiogames.net  Wed Mar 21 06:31:58 2012
From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net))
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:31:58 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
In-Reply-To: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
References: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <4F69AE1E.8060108@audiogames.net>

Amazing! Congratulations!!!

On 20-3-2012 18:50, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> Really nice article here: 
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word-is-out-on-accessible-gaming
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From brannonz at microsoft.com  Wed Mar 21 11:28:16 2012
From: brannonz at microsoft.com (Brannon Zahand)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:28:16 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
In-Reply-To: <4F69AE1E.8060108@audiogames.net>
References: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>,
	<4F69AE1E.8060108@audiogames.net>
Message-ID: <9C925E671BE38A458BB820CF5E296EDD0EB0A69F@BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

This is awesome! W00t!

Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard (AudioGames.net) [richard at audiogames.net]
Received: Wednesday, 21 Mar 2012, 3:32am
To: Barrie Ellis [oneswitch at gmail.com]; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List [games_access at igda.org]
Subject: Re: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article

Amazing! Congratulations!!!

On 20-3-2012 18:50, Barrie Ellis wrote:
Really nice article here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word-is-out-on-accessible-gaming





_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org<mailto:games_access at igda.org>
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org


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From gramenos at ics.forth.gr  Thu Mar 22 05:15:34 2012
From: gramenos at ics.forth.gr (Dimitris Grammenos)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:15:34 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
In-Reply-To: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
References: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <000401cd080c$5762e0a0$0628a1e0$@forth.gr>

That's great!!!!

Congrats!!!

 

D.

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:50 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article

 

Really nice article here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word
-is-out-on-accessible-gaming

 

 

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 12:49:39 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:49:39 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article
In-Reply-To: <000401cd080c$5762e0a0$0628a1e0$@forth.gr>
References: <E3B1CA44E92F49609CDC5B622E4CA6B6@OneSwitchPC>
	<000401cd080c$5762e0a0$0628a1e0$@forth.gr>
Message-ID: <C6168A5C4CAE403FB394501FBACC1038@OneSwitchPC>

Cheers all (on behalf of the team at SpecialEffect)! It's all slowly coming together.


From: Dimitris Grammenos 
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:15 AM
To: 'Barrie Ellis' ; 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 
Subject: RE: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article


That's great!!!!

Congrats!!!

 

D.

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:50 PM
To: games_access at igda.org
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Article

 

Really nice article here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-20-from-pm-to-players-the-word-is-out-on-accessible-gaming

 

 
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 09:12:00 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:12:00 -0000
Subject: [games_access] Request for help...
Message-ID: <108119105D244DD68E03FCC6273D697C@OneSwitchPC>

Recently received this request...

I am writing an article about accessibility in mainstream games for blind gamers. I have been talking to some gamers who are completely blind that play a variety of mainstream video games, but particularly 2D fighting and rhythm action titles.

They have pointed out how strong audio cues and accessible menus can help open up other mainstream games for them. I am really interested in whether the game industry is aware of this community of players, and whether accessibility for the visually impaired is something that features in the game design process. David was kind enough to respond to me, and EA have passed an enquiry on to the Star Wars team. 

I'm sure there are some games out there with deliberate accessibility features, but I can't remember them. Can anyone help?

Best wishes all,

Barrie
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From jbannick at 7128.com  Fri Mar 23 17:24:14 2012
From: jbannick at 7128.com (John Bannick)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:24:14 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Request for help...
In-Reply-To: <108119105D244DD68E03FCC6273D697C@OneSwitchPC>
References: <108119105D244DD68E03FCC6273D697C@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <4F6CE9FE.5080400@7128.com>

Barrie,

While our games are intended for general use, many of them are 
deliberately blind-accessible.

What we specifically do for our blind-accessible games is:

1. All controls are keyboard accessible.
2. All controls and game parts self-voice and also work with the JAWS 
screen reader.
3. We design the logic of our user interface to be easy to use both 
visually and by ear.
4. We include an Easy button and Game Throttle so the gamer can control 
the level of challenge.
5. We include blind-specific in-game help.
6. We try to make the entertainment value of our sounds as good as our 
visuals.

If you want a whole lot more technical stuff about how to make a 
mainstream game blind-accessible, go to our special Web site, 
www.blindcomputergames.com.

John Bannick
CTO
7-128 Software


On 03/23/2012 09:12 AM, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> Recently received this request...
> I am writing an article about accessibility in mainstream games for 
> blind gamers. I have been talking to some gamers who are completely 
> blind that play a variety of mainstream video games, but particularly 
> 2D fighting and rhythm action titles.
>
> They have pointed out how strong audio cues and accessible menus can 
> help open up other mainstream games for them. I am really interested 
> in whether the game industry is aware of this community of players, 
> and whether accessibility for the visually impaired is something that 
> features in the game design process. David was kind enough to respond 
> to me, and EA have passed an enquiry on to the Star Wars team.
> I'm sure there are some games out there with deliberate accessibility 
> features, but I can't remember them. Can anyone help?
> Best wishes all,
> Barrie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 24 03:46:13 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?aV9oQGhvdG1haWwuY29t?=)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 07:46:13 +0000
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Request_for_help?=
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>



Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in general, or specifically games designed to be playable by people with little/no vision?

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:31:38 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:31:38 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>

The person is after info on any deliberate efforts in a main-stream game linked to enabling blind/visually impaired players.

I'm aware of Regret of the Wind (WARP for SEGA Saturn/Dreamcast) and Sound Voyager (Bit Generations for Game Boy Advance), but can't think of any others of the top of my head.

Barrie



From: i_h at hotmail.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:46 AM
To: games_access at igda.org 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help




Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in general, or specifically games designed to be playable by people with little/no vision?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From richard at audiogames.net  Mon Mar 26 04:13:11 2012
From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net))
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:13:11 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>
References: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>
	<60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <4F702517.2020403@audiogames.net>

Hi,

Don't have a lot of time to reply but maybe it's best to browse 
AudioGames.net and ask around on the forum because there are a couple of 
more games:

- Papa Sangre (iOS)
- De Ontdekker en het Mysterie van de Diamanten Scarabee (Wii, 
Dutch/English only) - 
http://www.hanze.nl/home/International/Schools/School+of+Communication+Media/News/Articles/lecturer-communication-systems-develops-nintendo-wii-game.htm
- Terraformers (Originally intended as a Thomas?

Gotta go, will think of some more!

Greets,

Richard


n 26-3-2012 8:31, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> The person is after info on any deliberate efforts in a main-stream 
> game linked to enabling blind/visually impaired players.
> I'm aware of Regret of the Wind (WARP for SEGA Saturn/Dreamcast) and 
> Sound Voyager (Bit Generations for Game Boy Advance), but can't think 
> of any others of the top of my head.
> Barrie
>
> *From:* i_h at hotmail.com <mailto:i_h at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:46 AM
> *To:* games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [games_access] Request for help
>
>
>
> Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in 
> general, or specifically games designed to be playable by people with 
> little/no vision?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 10:38:42 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:38:42 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
Message-ID: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>

Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers video did get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 minutes in. Really?

I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to find sites dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl, AudioGames.net, PCSgamer, PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers, OneSwitch and more besides). It's possible Mark really couldn't find them, it just comes across in the video like AbleGamers started the GameAccessibility movement.

Whinge over.

Barrie









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From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Mon Mar 26 10:50:15 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:50:15 +0200
Subject: [games_access] UN CRPD - what are games?
In-Reply-To: <4F5A0378.9060201@audiogames.net>
References: <001f01ccfd51$4b004930$e100db90$@de>
	<9C4DEBCC-915B-4424-B277-FB2E51AF3FE5@dsv.su.se>
	<4F5A0378.9060201@audiogames.net>
Message-ID: <B11A9A6C-C78C-43DF-B9C0-6FC5CAFE2849@dsv.su.se>

Hi Richard,

sorry for my slow response but yes "applied games" is a good way to put it, which also focus on the use of the game, rather than the game itself.

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 9Mar 2012, at 2:19 PM, Richard (AudioGames.net) wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> For several years now I've been a team member of the Applied Game Design research group here at the Utrecht School of the Arts. I favor the term "applied games".
> 
> Greets,
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> On 9-3-2012 10:13, Thomas Westin wrote:
>> 
>> The term "serious games" is bad and I prefer not to use it at all  The same issue is with "casual games" etc. Any game can be used seriously, casually, hard core etc. But the term "serious" is problematic in itself; any game can be considered serious, and any type of playing a game can also be used for non-entertainment purposes (the latter which was intended by Ben Sawyer et al when they coined the term). 
>> 
>> So, how to say it in a better way? I prefer replace "games" with "gaming". I.e. serious gaming or casual gaming. Then the focus is on the use of the games, not the design of the games. E.g. in two projects I've been involved in at a school between 2003-2012, we have been using e.g. WoW and now SWToR for pedagogical purposes, without modifying the games (which you can't with MMORPGs anyway).
>> 
>> Of course you could also say "use of games in non-entertainment contexts", to have a more academic description, but in daily talk, it is just too awkward. 
>> 
>> Mvh / Best regards
>> Thomas Westin
>> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
>> 
>> On 8Mar 2012, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
>> 
>>> Games
>>> * Hobby and Culture
>>> * Service (online games)
>>> 
>>> Serious Games
>>> * Education (schools, work) and Information
>>> * Using Game Technology for serious products
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From richard at audiogames.net  Mon Mar 26 10:59:39 2012
From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net))
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:59:39 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>

Yes... well... ditto that... maybe Mark would like to elaborate on that 
(if you're still here?)?

I can imagine that this is just "one of those phrases" to spice up the 
documentary. Sander and I used a sort of similar quote in our Gamasutra 
article on game audio frameworks* : "surprisingly little has been 
written in the field of ludology about the structure and composition of 
game audio. " - which unfortunately hurt some fellow game audio 
researchers in maybe a similar fashion. Even though I still believe it 
is factually true, I would now have used a lot more nuance.

At the end of the day, the IGDA-SIG was the first real organized attempt 
at tackling game accessibility issues. Proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_accessibility

(BIG WINK)

Greets,

Richard!


*http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3509/ieza_a_framework_for_game_audio.php



On 26-3-2012 16:38, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers 
> video did get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 
> minutes in. Really?
> I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to 
> find sites dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl, 
> AudioGames.net, PCSgamer, PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers, 
> OneSwitch and more besides). It's possible Mark really couldn't find 
> them, it just comes across in the video like AbleGamers started the 
> GameAccessibility movement.
> Whinge over.
> Barrie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From brannonz at microsoft.com  Mon Mar 26 11:26:39 2012
From: brannonz at microsoft.com (Brannon Zahand)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:26:39 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>
References: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>,
	<60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <9C925E671BE38A458BB820CF5E296EDD0EB37661@BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Outside of the efforts made by Popcap for folks with color deficiency, no.

Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.

-----Original Message-----
From: Barrie Ellis [oneswitch at gmail.com]
Received: Sunday, 25 Mar 2012, 11:32pm
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List [games_access at igda.org]
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help

The person is after info on any deliberate efforts in a main-stream game linked to enabling blind/visually impaired players.

I'm aware of Regret of the Wind (WARP for SEGA Saturn/Dreamcast) and Sound Voyager (Bit Generations for Game Boy Advance), but can't think of any others of the top of my head.

Barrie


From: i_h at hotmail.com<mailto:i_h at hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:46 AM
To: games_access at igda.org<mailto:games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help



Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in general, or specifically games designed to be playable by people with little/no vision?


________________________________

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org<mailto:games_access at igda.org>
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From jrporter at uw.edu  Mon Mar 26 11:30:51 2012
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:30:51 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>
	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>
Message-ID: <CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com>

To be fair, I think we need to draw a distinction between the
existence of *resources
for accessible gaming* and *infrastructures to support the community of
disabled gamers*.if I don't think anyone would argue that the former didn't
exist prior to 2004, but these sites (such as the specific sites you
reference, Barrie) very much focused on providing solutions to gamers more
than opening a dialogue, not to mention the fact that they tend to be
rather sharply fragmented along the lines of certain impairments or certain
types of adaptations.

So while AbleGamers obviously didn't start the entire movement, I think it *is
*probably fair to say that they were the first to do what they do: serve as
a hub for gamers, developers, and others to come together in a single,
coherent community setting to engage in discussions related to issues of
game accessibility. When I watched the video, this was the message I took
away from it. Perhaps the specific framing of the comment wasn't the best
and may have underplayed the prevalence of these smaller, specialized
sites, but then again I think we all know how easily this sort of thing can
be lost in the editing process (especially when you aren't actually in
charge of the video).

-John

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Richard (AudioGames.net) <
richard at audiogames.net> wrote:

>  Yes... well... ditto that... maybe Mark would like to elaborate on that
> (if you're still here?)?
>
> I can imagine that this is just "one of those phrases" to spice up the
> documentary. Sander and I used a sort of similar quote in our Gamasutra
> article on game audio frameworks* : "surprisingly little has been written
> in the field of ludology about the structure and composition of game audio.
> " - which unfortunately hurt some fellow game audio researchers in maybe a
> similar fashion. Even though I still believe it is factually true, I would
> now have used a lot more nuance.
>
> At the end of the day, the IGDA-SIG was the first real organized attempt
> at tackling game accessibility issues. Proof:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_accessibility
>
> (BIG WINK)
>
> Greets,
>
> Richard!
>
>
> *
> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3509/ieza_a_framework_for_game_audio.php
>
>
>
>
> On 26-3-2012 16:38, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>
> Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers video
> did get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 minutes in.
> Really?
>
> I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to
> find sites dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl,
> AudioGames.net, PCSgamer, PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers,
> OneSwitch and more besides). It's possible Mark really couldn't find them,
> it just comes across in the video like AbleGamers started the
> GameAccessibility movement.
>
> Whinge over.
>
> Barrie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing listgames_access at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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From steve at ablegamers.com  Mon Mar 26 11:56:28 2012
From: steve at ablegamers.com (Steve Spohn)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:56:28 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>
	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>

Interesting tactic, trying to call out AbleGamers on the public list. You
forgot some of the information, so I'll fill in the blanks for you.

 

This video was not produced by us, it was produced by the American
Association of people with disabilities, which is basically the largest
umbrella organization for the general disabled community in America. The
reason they produced this video is because Mark Barlet and the AbleGamers
foundation won the Hearne award for excellence in leadership, because we're
starting to get game accessibility noticed by the mainstream media and
public. We shot over two days with approximately 14 hours of video, and it
was only a 4 min. piece of which we didn't get more than 2 min. of what we
shot.

 

In 2004 finding information to the extent that AG covers mainstream
videogames, has a level of connection with developers, and roots into the
industry was extremely difficult. I'm talking information that is not
fragmented by specific disability, specific need, or even worse talking to
caretakers and not the disabled individual. Heck, Barrie, in 2008 when I was
looking for information on gaming with a motor impairment disability
AbleGamers is what Google gave me a full page result on, I didn't even hear
about OneSwitch until I joined the organization.

 

Do you know how many quad controllers, quad joys and Quises the ablegamers
foundation has sold to people in need? Do you know how many people we have
referred to DeafGamers and AudioGames? Tons. Why? Because if AG can't help
them, we send them where they can get help. 

 

So, here's my suggestion. Instead of trying to mince words and whine over
how an award that Mark and AbleGamers won didn't mention anything other than
the award winner, maybe you should celebrate the fact that game
accessibility is beginning to push hard. 

 

And my final suggestion, to you, Barrie, is to stop trying to rain on
accomplishments that are made by AbleGamers. It's gotten to the point where
I don't post what we are up to or do on this list because if I do there is a
snide comment or no comment at all about the accomplishment. Meanwhile, when
SpecialEffect does something good for the movement, do you see me on here
complaining about how you didn't mention AbleGamers? How AbleGamers was
first or does more or any other put down? No. You don't see that. Because
there's no point in putting down each other.

 

You want to help the movement? Stop quibbling over who's getting the press
and who's saying what and focus on helping the disabled individuals who need
the help. Because you know what. They don't give two flying rats WHO started
it all as long as they get help! 

 

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

 <http://www.gameaccessibility.org/> www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the
basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of John R. Porter
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:31 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

 

To be fair, I think we need to draw a distinction between the existence of
resources for accessible gaming and infrastructures to support the community
of disabled gamers.if I don't think anyone would argue that the former
didn't exist prior to 2004, but these sites (such as the specific sites you
reference, Barrie) very much focused on providing solutions to gamers more
than opening a dialogue, not to mention the fact that they tend to be rather
sharply fragmented along the lines of certain impairments or certain types
of adaptations.

So while AbleGamers obviously didn't start the entire movement, I think it
is probably fair to say that they were the first to do what they do: serve
as a hub for gamers, developers, and others to come together in a single,
coherent community setting to engage in discussions related to issues of
game accessibility. When I watched the video, this was the message I took
away from it. Perhaps the specific framing of the comment wasn't the best
and may have underplayed the prevalence of these smaller, specialized sites,
but then again I think we all know how easily this sort of thing can be lost
in the editing process (especially when you aren't actually in charge of the
video).

-John

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Richard (AudioGames.net)
<richard at audiogames.net> wrote:

Yes... well... ditto that... maybe Mark would like to elaborate on that (if
you're still here?)?

I can imagine that this is just "one of those phrases" to spice up the
documentary. Sander and I used a sort of similar quote in our Gamasutra
article on game audio frameworks* : "surprisingly little has been written in
the field of ludology about the structure and composition of game audio. " -
which unfortunately hurt some fellow game audio researchers in maybe a
similar fashion. Even though I still believe it is factually true, I would
now have used a lot more nuance.

At the end of the day, the IGDA-SIG was the first real organized attempt at
tackling game accessibility issues. Proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_accessibility

(BIG WINK)

Greets,

Richard!


*http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3509/ieza_a_framework_for_game_audio.
php





On 26-3-2012 16:38, Barrie Ellis wrote: 

Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers video did
get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 minutes in.
Really?

 

I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to find sites
dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl, AudioGames.net, PCSgamer,
PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers, OneSwitch and more besides). It's
possible Mark really couldn't find them, it just comes across in the video
like AbleGamers started the GameAccessibility movement.

 

Whinge over.

 

Barrie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

 


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

 

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4895 - Release Date: 03/26/12

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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Mar 26 12:11:02 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:11:02 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>
Message-ID: <003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de>

Hello,

peace? 

Everyone is doing what they can. I personally do not like this attitude from
both sides.
Both sides are right and wrong. The wrong part is because there are emotion
and this topic
is a really hard hard hard work. And another reason is that we sometimes
miss open minds.
So why don't we work together?

Maybe we should look at ourselves and look what we can change so we can work
together?

This situation besides the SIG and AG is one of the reason I do not work
with this SIG,
like I would like to do. To be honest I do not see any team work, including
letting
the members participate in this SIG. 
(The Top Ten Version two was made without participation of the members!)

So I started to work on my one stuff long time ago. I do not have the
feeling that
new point of views are accepted. So I have my own philosophy, sent my own
paper to the UN
and created my own project concept without the SIG.

But I do not like this ...

Maybe we should look how we can make this SIG working again as a team (and
including all members)
and hopefully in a partnership with the AG?

I would love to see something like this: Look there is a video about AG,
great!
(And maybe the AG does mention this SIG in the Video?)

Best regards,
Sandra




From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Mar 26 12:14:00 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:14:00 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <9C925E671BE38A458BB820CF5E296EDD0EB37661@BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP103BF2CECA1477FCD03386491470@phx.gbl>,
	<60772DA2F99A4BBD963745431C24ABFB@OneSwitchPC>
	<9C925E671BE38A458BB820CF5E296EDD0EB37661@BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <003a01cd0b6b$74d5b060$5e811120$@de>

Hi,

Color deficiency: 
I do not remember, but there was at least one game with color settings
and another with a "call for feedback".
It was something about Diablo. But I am not sure.


Maybe AG would be a perfect one to ask ....................
(We should work together)

Best regards,
Sandra


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Brannon Zahand
Gesendet: Montag, 26. M?rz 2012 17:27
An: games_access at igda.org; oneswitch at gmail.com
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Request for help

Outside of the efforts made by Popcap for folks with color deficiency, no.

Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Barrie Ellis [oneswitch at gmail.com]
Received: Sunday, 25 Mar 2012, 11:32pm
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List [games_access at igda.org]
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help


The person is after info on any deliberate efforts in a main-stream game
linked to enabling blind/visually impaired players.
 
I'm aware of Regret of the Wind (WARP for SEGA Saturn/Dreamcast) and Sound
Voyager (Bit Generations for Game Boy Advance), but can't think of any
others of the top of my head.
 
Barrie
 

From: i_h at hotmail.com <mailto:i_h at hotmail.com>  
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:46 AM
To: games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>  
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help



Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in general, or
specifically games designed to be playable by people with little/no vision?



________________________________

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org <http://igda-gasig.org> 




From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 12:28:45 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:28:45 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net><CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>
Message-ID: <F9867F0E023647A3BEC4E0267A0C93AA@OneSwitchPC>

Simply: I felt that single comment made, on a public video, was not a fair reflection of all the hard work gone by of other people dating back before most of us had an interest (Pong days onwards). That doesn't take away my admiration for AbleGamers at all. I do believe the site is very impressive and the forum the most inclusive that's out there so far. I do think gaining the ear of any developer from wannabe-designers, sole coders, indies to main-stream is a great thing - and AbleGamers is doing that. I do think getting press is great news. The awards are good news. I do think AbleGamers was the first professional looking site to cover a broader range of accessibility issues for a broader range of disabled gamers. I just didn't like that comment. That's all.

Barrie





From: Steve Spohn 
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 4:56 PM
To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine


Interesting tactic, trying to call out AbleGamers on the public list. You forgot some of the information, so I'll fill in the blanks for you.

 

This video was not produced by us, it was produced by the American Association of people with disabilities, which is basically the largest umbrella organization for the general disabled community in America. The reason they produced this video is because Mark Barlet and the AbleGamers foundation won the Hearne award for excellence in leadership, because we're starting to get game accessibility noticed by the mainstream media and public. We shot over two days with approximately 14 hours of video, and it was only a 4 min. piece of which we didn't get more than 2 min. of what we shot.

 

In 2004 finding information to the extent that AG covers mainstream videogames, has a level of connection with developers, and roots into the industry was extremely difficult. I'm talking information that is not fragmented by specific disability, specific need, or even worse talking to caretakers and not the disabled individual. Heck, Barrie, in 2008 when I was looking for information on gaming with a motor impairment disability AbleGamers is what Google gave me a full page result on, I didn't even hear about OneSwitch until I joined the organization.

 

Do you know how many quad controllers, quad joys and Quises the ablegamers foundation has sold to people in need? Do you know how many people we have referred to DeafGamers and AudioGames? Tons. Why? Because if AG can't help them, we send them where they can get help. 

 

So, here's my suggestion. Instead of trying to mince words and whine over how an award that Mark and AbleGamers won didn't mention anything other than the award winner, maybe you should celebrate the fact that game accessibility is beginning to push hard. 

 

And my final suggestion, to you, Barrie, is to stop trying to rain on accomplishments that are made by AbleGamers. It's gotten to the point where I don't post what we are up to or do on this list because if I do there is a snide comment or no comment at all about the accomplishment. Meanwhile, when SpecialEffect does something good for the movement, do you see me on here complaining about how you didn't mention AbleGamers? How AbleGamers was first or does more or any other put down? No. You don't see that. Because there's no point in putting down each other.

 

You want to help the movement? Stop quibbling over who's getting the press and who's saying what and focus on helping the disabled individuals who need the help. Because you know what. They don't give two flying rats WHO started it all as long as they get help! 

 

 

Steve Spohn

Editor-In-Chief

The AbleGamers Foundation

 

www.ablegamers.com - community site

www.ablegamers.org - foundation website

www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

 

Skype ID Steve_Spohn

 

From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:31 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

 

To be fair, I think we need to draw a distinction between the existence of resources for accessible gaming and infrastructures to support the community of disabled gamers.if I don't think anyone would argue that the former didn't exist prior to 2004, but these sites (such as the specific sites you reference, Barrie) very much focused on providing solutions to gamers more than opening a dialogue, not to mention the fact that they tend to be rather sharply fragmented along the lines of certain impairments or certain types of adaptations.

So while AbleGamers obviously didn't start the entire movement, I think it is probably fair to say that they were the first to do what they do: serve as a hub for gamers, developers, and others to come together in a single, coherent community setting to engage in discussions related to issues of game accessibility. When I watched the video, this was the message I took away from it. Perhaps the specific framing of the comment wasn't the best and may have underplayed the prevalence of these smaller, specialized sites, but then again I think we all know how easily this sort of thing can be lost in the editing process (especially when you aren't actually in charge of the video).

-John

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Richard (AudioGames.net) <richard at audiogames.net> wrote:

Yes... well... ditto that... maybe Mark would like to elaborate on that (if you're still here?)?

I can imagine that this is just "one of those phrases" to spice up the documentary. Sander and I used a sort of similar quote in our Gamasutra article on game audio frameworks* : "surprisingly little has been written in the field of ludology about the structure and composition of game audio. " - which unfortunately hurt some fellow game audio researchers in maybe a similar fashion. Even though I still believe it is factually true, I would now have used a lot more nuance.

At the end of the day, the IGDA-SIG was the first real organized attempt at tackling game accessibility issues. Proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_accessibility

(BIG WINK)

Greets,

Richard!


*http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3509/ieza_a_framework_for_game_audio.php





On 26-3-2012 16:38, Barrie Ellis wrote: 

  Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers video did get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 minutes in. Really?

   

  I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to find sites dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl, AudioGames.net, PCSgamer, PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers, OneSwitch and more besides). It's possible Mark really couldn't find them, it just comes across in the video like AbleGamers started the GameAccessibility movement.

   

  Whinge over.

   

  Barrie

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

_______________________________________________games_access mailing listgames_access at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_accessThe main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4895 - Release Date: 03/26/12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 12:40:42 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:40:42 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>
	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de>
Message-ID: <E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>

Peace is a good thing. I was likely out of order to bring it up, and only 
showing my pettiness. Sorry.

I would love to see the disparate organisations find something to come 
together with, that we can all back... Maybe some kind of W3C Game 
Accessibility guidelines. Maybe someone independent could come up with the 
bare bones, then bring in AbleGamers, IGDA GASIG, SpecialEffect and all the 
others with an interest to flesh it out and all put our stamp on it? That I 
would love to see very much. That might also show recognition for one 
another all round.

Barrie




--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:11 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

> Hello,
>
> peace?
>
> Everyone is doing what they can. I personally do not like this attitude 
> from
> both sides.
> Both sides are right and wrong. The wrong part is because there are 
> emotion
> and this topic
> is a really hard hard hard work. And another reason is that we sometimes
> miss open minds.
> So why don't we work together?
>
> Maybe we should look at ourselves and look what we can change so we can 
> work
> together?
>
> This situation besides the SIG and AG is one of the reason I do not work
> with this SIG,
> like I would like to do. To be honest I do not see any team work, 
> including
> letting
> the members participate in this SIG.
> (The Top Ten Version two was made without participation of the members!)
>
> So I started to work on my one stuff long time ago. I do not have the
> feeling that
> new point of views are accepted. So I have my own philosophy, sent my own
> paper to the UN
> and created my own project concept without the SIG.
>
> But I do not like this ...
>
> Maybe we should look how we can make this SIG working again as a team (and
> including all members)
> and hopefully in a partnership with the AG?
>
> I would love to see something like this: Look there is a video about AG,
> great!
> (And maybe the AG does mention this SIG in the Video?)
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 



From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 26 12:41:31 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:41:31 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5571.1332777392.66258.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5571.1332777392.66258.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W47AEBD0FD1929A783DC3C691450@phx.gbl>


Yes, while the wording of the quote stating that there were no web resources at all available before Ablegamers came along obviously isn't true, Steve's absolutely right in that we (we meaning everyone globally who is thinking about / practicing / advocating game accessibility)  are currently a very small group working towards a common goal, all pushing in exactly the same direction. 
We are all very close allies, we all want the same thing and any minor details like these along the way aren't important. In years to come when accessibility is standard good practice across the industry all that will matter is the fact that we got there. Noone in the world now cares about the stress and interpersonal issues that were involved with creating broadcast TV closed captioning. Those things are long forgotten, all that matters that it's now done and has a huge affect on people's lives on a daily basis. 
Although it's unpleasant for everyone else involved pre-2004 to have Mark phrase it like that,  from past experience it will have been an off-the-cuff unscripted comment, chosen by the editors for maximum impact over all of hugely more valuable information that they will have cut out. And more importantly in the grand scheme of things it's a video that is getting lots of coverage and doing a good job of raising awareness, which helps us all get closer to our goal. 
Although it's not quite giving credit where credit is due, every single person on this list can take full credit for being a true pioneer, amongst the very first to spearhead the effort in the industry and making a direct impact on people's quality of life.Ian 		 	   		  
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 12:53:05 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:53:05 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W47AEBD0FD1929A783DC3C691450@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.5571.1332777392.66258.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W47AEBD0FD1929A783DC3C691450@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D37634DF2F6E4DCE880EB22D7176E944@OneSwitchPC>

That, I agree with 100%.

Barrie


From: Ian Hamilton 
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:41 PM
To: games_access at igda.org 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine


Yes, while the wording of the quote stating that there were no web resources at all available before Ablegamers came along obviously isn't true, Steve's absolutely right in that we (we meaning everyone globally who is thinking about / practicing / advocating game accessibility)  are currently a very small group working towards a common goal, all pushing in exactly the same direction. 


We are all very close allies, we all want the same thing and any minor details like these along the way aren't important. In years to come when accessibility is standard good practice across the industry all that will matter is the fact that we got there. Noone in the world now cares about the stress and interpersonal issues that were involved with creating broadcast TV closed captioning. Those things are long forgotten, all that matters that it's now done and has a huge affect on people's lives on a daily basis. 


Although it's unpleasant for everyone else involved pre-2004 to have Mark phrase it like that,  from past experience it will have been an off-the-cuff unscripted comment, chosen by the editors for maximum impact over all of hugely more valuable information that they will have cut out. And more importantly in the grand scheme of things it's a video that is getting lots of coverage and doing a good job of raising awareness, which helps us all get closer to our goal. 


Although it's not quite giving credit where credit is due, every single person on this list can take full credit for being a true pioneer, amongst the very first to spearhead the effort in the industry and making a direct impact on people's quality of life.


Ian


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From steve at ablegamers.com  Mon Mar 26 13:04:32 2012
From: steve at ablegamers.com (Steve Spohn)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:04:32 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de>
	<E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>

I want to thank all those who saw the forest through the trees on the
subject.

To Barrie: You and I have had many discussions about SIG, AG and SE - I
truly believe if you wanted to ask about that one second line in an overall
video you would have e-mailed me personally and not blasted it to the sig.
it's difficult for me to believe that you were not just stirring the pot.

Here's the thing. Nine months ago SpecialEffect and ablegamers were going to
collaborate on exactly what you are talking about. A set of guidelines that
would be on a third-party neutral website that would send people to both of
our websites and at the same time allow us to point developers to a neutral
ground explaining the W3C accessibility type standards. We were going to
design this and then bring it to sig for suggestions and then post it for
the world to see. Nine months later, the ball is still in your court and we
are still waiting for you to get back to Mark on this project.

As far as I understand, in the meantime, you have started up your own
website to do what ablegamers is already doing, review mainstream games. So
once again, instead of collaborating, we will be at odds.

Why can everyone not work together towards the same goal? If we would all
take a single task in the movement we would be so much stronger. To quote
the great Roman philosophy "We are not a single clenched fist. We are but
fingers wiggling free without being set to single purpose."

Set mind to single purpose!

Steve Spohn
Editor-In-Chief
The AbleGamers Foundation

www.ablegamers.com - community site
www.ablegamers.org - foundation website
www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

Skype ID Steve_Spohn


-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:41 PM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

Peace is a good thing. I was likely out of order to bring it up, and only
showing my pettiness. Sorry.

I would love to see the disparate organisations find something to come
together with, that we can all back... Maybe some kind of W3C Game
Accessibility guidelines. Maybe someone independent could come up with the
bare bones, then bring in AbleGamers, IGDA GASIG, SpecialEffect and all the
others with an interest to flesh it out and all put our stamp on it? That I
would love to see very much. That might also show recognition for one
another all round.

Barrie




--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:11 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

> Hello,
>
> peace?
>
> Everyone is doing what they can. I personally do not like this 
> attitude from both sides.
> Both sides are right and wrong. The wrong part is because there are 
> emotion and this topic is a really hard hard hard work. And another 
> reason is that we sometimes miss open minds.
> So why don't we work together?
>
> Maybe we should look at ourselves and look what we can change so we 
> can work together?
>
> This situation besides the SIG and AG is one of the reason I do not 
> work with this SIG, like I would like to do. To be honest I do not see 
> any team work, including letting the members participate in this SIG.
> (The Top Ten Version two was made without participation of the 
> members!)
>
> So I started to work on my one stuff long time ago. I do not have the 
> feeling that new point of views are accepted. So I have my own 
> philosophy, sent my own paper to the UN and created my own project 
> concept without the SIG.
>
> But I do not like this ...
>
> Maybe we should look how we can make this SIG working again as a team 
> (and including all members) and hopefully in a partnership with the 
> AG?
>
> I would love to see something like this: Look there is a video about 
> AG, great!
> (And maybe the AG does mention this SIG in the Video?)
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
-----
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:32:40 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:32:40 +0000
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 30
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5584.1332779330.66259.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5584.1332779330.66259.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W17011E1315C340CE02068691450@phx.gbl>


A few examples...
Blind / visually impaired:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/scared-of-the-dark-a-look-at-the-audio-game-papa-sangre.ars 
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/04/stem-stumper-puzzle-gaming-for-visually-impaired-on-the-iphone.ars 
http://www.gamebase.info/magazine/read/the-explorer-and-the-mystery-of-the-diamond-scarab-launch_489.html 
http://www.blind-games.com/entombed.aspx http://rockvibe.wordpress.com/ http://agrip.org.uk/ http://www.vifit.org/ 

... and also a huge number in the dropdown at the bottom of the page here: 
http://audiogames.net/ 

Colour-blind:
http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-color-palettes-available-colorblind-players
http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-gets-colorblind-options.html http://digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/50-modern-warfare-3-color-blind-optionhttp://support.popcap.com/colorblind-option (PopCap = legends) 



> From: games_access-request at igda.org
> Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 30
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:28:50 -0400
> 
> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
> 	games_access at igda.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	games_access-request at igda.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	games_access-owner at igda.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Whinge and whine (Sandra Uhling)
>    2. Re: Request for help (Sandra Uhling)
>    3. Re: Whinge and whine (Barrie Ellis)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:11:02 +0200
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> peace? 
> 
> Everyone is doing what they can. I personally do not like this attitude from
> both sides.
> Both sides are right and wrong. The wrong part is because there are emotion
> and this topic
> is a really hard hard hard work. And another reason is that we sometimes
> miss open minds.
> So why don't we work together?
> 
> Maybe we should look at ourselves and look what we can change so we can work
> together?
> 
> This situation besides the SIG and AG is one of the reason I do not work
> with this SIG,
> like I would like to do. To be honest I do not see any team work, including
> letting
> the members participate in this SIG. 
> (The Top Ten Version two was made without participation of the members!)
> 
> So I started to work on my one stuff long time ago. I do not have the
> feeling that
> new point of views are accepted. So I have my own philosophy, sent my own
> paper to the UN
> and created my own project concept without the SIG.
> 
> But I do not like this ...
> 
> Maybe we should look how we can make this SIG working again as a team (and
> including all members)
> and hopefully in a partnership with the AG?
> 
> I would love to see something like this: Look there is a video about AG,
> great!
> (And maybe the AG does mention this SIG in the Video?)
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:14:00 +0200
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>,	<oneswitch at gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <003a01cd0b6b$74d5b060$5e811120$@de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Color deficiency: 
> I do not remember, but there was at least one game with color settings
> and another with a "call for feedback".
> It was something about Diablo. But I am not sure.
> 
> 
> Maybe AG would be a perfect one to ask ....................
> (We should work together)
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von Brannon Zahand
> Gesendet: Montag, 26. M?rz 2012 17:27
> An: games_access at igda.org; oneswitch at gmail.com
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Request for help
> 
> Outside of the efforts made by Popcap for folks with color deficiency, no.
> 
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Barrie Ellis [oneswitch at gmail.com]
> Received: Sunday, 25 Mar 2012, 11:32pm
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List [games_access at igda.org]
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help
> 
> 
> The person is after info on any deliberate efforts in a main-stream game
> linked to enabling blind/visually impaired players.
>  
> I'm aware of Regret of the Wind (WARP for SEGA Saturn/Dreamcast) and Sound
> Voyager (Bit Generations for Game Boy Advance), but can't think of any
> others of the top of my head.
>  
> Barrie
>  
> 
> From: i_h at hotmail.com <mailto:i_h at hotmail.com>  
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:46 AM
> To: games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>  
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking - are they after examples of game accessibility in general, or
> specifically games designed to be playable by people with little/no vision?
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org <http://igda-gasig.org> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:28:45 +0100
> From: "Barrie Ellis" <oneswitch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
> 	<games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <F9867F0E023647A3BEC4E0267A0C93AA at OneSwitchPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Simply: I felt that single comment made, on a public video, was not a fair reflection of all the hard work gone by of other people dating back before most of us had an interest (Pong days onwards). That doesn't take away my admiration for AbleGamers at all. I do believe the site is very impressive and the forum the most inclusive that's out there so far. I do think gaining the ear of any developer from wannabe-designers, sole coders, indies to main-stream is a great thing - and AbleGamers is doing that. I do think getting press is great news. The awards are good news. I do think AbleGamers was the first professional looking site to cover a broader range of accessibility issues for a broader range of disabled gamers. I just didn't like that comment. That's all.
> 
> Barrie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Steve Spohn 
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 4:56 PM
> To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' 
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
> 
> 
> Interesting tactic, trying to call out AbleGamers on the public list. You forgot some of the information, so I'll fill in the blanks for you.
> 
>  
> 
> This video was not produced by us, it was produced by the American Association of people with disabilities, which is basically the largest umbrella organization for the general disabled community in America. The reason they produced this video is because Mark Barlet and the AbleGamers foundation won the Hearne award for excellence in leadership, because we're starting to get game accessibility noticed by the mainstream media and public. We shot over two days with approximately 14 hours of video, and it was only a 4 min. piece of which we didn't get more than 2 min. of what we shot.
> 
>  
> 
> In 2004 finding information to the extent that AG covers mainstream videogames, has a level of connection with developers, and roots into the industry was extremely difficult. I'm talking information that is not fragmented by specific disability, specific need, or even worse talking to caretakers and not the disabled individual. Heck, Barrie, in 2008 when I was looking for information on gaming with a motor impairment disability AbleGamers is what Google gave me a full page result on, I didn't even hear about OneSwitch until I joined the organization.
> 
>  
> 
> Do you know how many quad controllers, quad joys and Quises the ablegamers foundation has sold to people in need? Do you know how many people we have referred to DeafGamers and AudioGames? Tons. Why? Because if AG can't help them, we send them where they can get help. 
> 
>  
> 
> So, here's my suggestion. Instead of trying to mince words and whine over how an award that Mark and AbleGamers won didn't mention anything other than the award winner, maybe you should celebrate the fact that game accessibility is beginning to push hard. 
> 
>  
> 
> And my final suggestion, to you, Barrie, is to stop trying to rain on accomplishments that are made by AbleGamers. It's gotten to the point where I don't post what we are up to or do on this list because if I do there is a snide comment or no comment at all about the accomplishment. Meanwhile, when SpecialEffect does something good for the movement, do you see me on here complaining about how you didn't mention AbleGamers? How AbleGamers was first or does more or any other put down? No. You don't see that. Because there's no point in putting down each other.
> 
>  
> 
> You want to help the movement? Stop quibbling over who's getting the press and who's saying what and focus on helping the disabled individuals who need the help. Because you know what. They don't give two flying rats WHO started it all as long as they get help! 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Steve Spohn
> 
> Editor-In-Chief
> 
> The AbleGamers Foundation
> 
>  
> 
> www.ablegamers.com - community site
> 
> www.ablegamers.org - foundation website
> 
> www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility
> 
>  
> 
> Skype ID Steve_Spohn
> 
>  
> 
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:31 AM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
> 
>  
> 
> To be fair, I think we need to draw a distinction between the existence of resources for accessible gaming and infrastructures to support the community of disabled gamers.if I don't think anyone would argue that the former didn't exist prior to 2004, but these sites (such as the specific sites you reference, Barrie) very much focused on providing solutions to gamers more than opening a dialogue, not to mention the fact that they tend to be rather sharply fragmented along the lines of certain impairments or certain types of adaptations.
> 
> So while AbleGamers obviously didn't start the entire movement, I think it is probably fair to say that they were the first to do what they do: serve as a hub for gamers, developers, and others to come together in a single, coherent community setting to engage in discussions related to issues of game accessibility. When I watched the video, this was the message I took away from it. Perhaps the specific framing of the comment wasn't the best and may have underplayed the prevalence of these smaller, specialized sites, but then again I think we all know how easily this sort of thing can be lost in the editing process (especially when you aren't actually in charge of the video).
> 
> -John
> 
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Richard (AudioGames.net) <richard at audiogames.net> wrote:
> 
> Yes... well... ditto that... maybe Mark would like to elaborate on that (if you're still here?)?
> 
> I can imagine that this is just "one of those phrases" to spice up the documentary. Sander and I used a sort of similar quote in our Gamasutra article on game audio frameworks* : "surprisingly little has been written in the field of ludology about the structure and composition of game audio. " - which unfortunately hurt some fellow game audio researchers in maybe a similar fashion. Even though I still believe it is factually true, I would now have used a lot more nuance.
> 
> At the end of the day, the IGDA-SIG was the first real organized attempt at tackling game accessibility issues. Proof:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_accessibility
> 
> (BIG WINK)
> 
> Greets,
> 
> Richard!
> 
> 
> *http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3509/ieza_a_framework_for_game_audio.php
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 26-3-2012 16:38, Barrie Ellis wrote: 
> 
>   Forgive me for a public whinge - but seeing this latest AbleGamers video did get my goat a little: http://youtu.be/BM8iNa87-Po at 1:17 minutes in. Really?
> 
>    
> 
>   I remember prior to AbleGamers c.2004, and it wasn't too hard to find sites dedicated to accessible gaming (e.g. QuadControl, AudioGames.net, PCSgamer, PDG accessible controllers, DeafGamers, OneSwitch and more besides). It's possible Mark really couldn't find them, it just comes across in the video like AbleGamers started the GameAccessibility movement.
> 
>    
> 
>   Whinge over.
> 
>    
> 
>   Barrie
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
> _______________________________________________games_access mailing listgames_access at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_accessThe main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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> 
> End of games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 30
> ********************************************
 		 	   		  
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:45:54 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:45:54 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5519.1332773982.66259.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5519.1332773982.66259.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W101D5AB5BD05721BEA9133E91450@phx.gbl>



Sorry, hit reply without setting subject or editing content so these will have been lost amongst the long email thread. So again, a few examples...
Blind / visually impaired:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/scared-of-the-dark-a-look-at-the-audio-game-papa-sangre.ars http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/04/stem-stumper-puzzle-gaming-for-visually-impaired-on-the-iphone.ars http://www.gamebase.info/magazine/read/the-explorer-and-the-mystery-of-the-diamond-scarab-launch_489.html http://www.blind-games.com/entombed.aspx http://rockvibe.wordpress.com/ http://agrip.org.uk/ http://www.vifit.org/ 
... and also a huge number in the dropdown at the bottom of the page here: http://audiogames.net/ 
Colour-blind:
http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-color-palettes-available-colorblind-playershttp://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-gets-colorblind-options.htmlhttp://digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/50-modern-warfare-3-color-blind-optionhttp://support.popcap.com/colorblind-option (PopCap = legends)  		 	   		  
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:47:52 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:47:52 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de><E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>
	<04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>
Message-ID: <BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC>

Have sent an off-list message on all of this stuff to Steve and Mark - but 
briefly for the curious...

1. I was stirring the pot a bit, after my petty-bone took a knock. I put my 
hands up. Not my finest moment ever.
2. Re. Accessibility Standards - would still love to see this happen, but 
may have to be in a different shape to what I was suggesting. Perhaps a more 
neutral shape initially.
3. Re. starting up my own web-site to review main-stream games, if you're 
talking about www.dual-ring.net - I have nothing whatsoever to do with that 
site (I did notice they share the same surname as mine). But I say good-luck 
to them. Nobody has the monopoly on game accessibility review sites, and I 
think good natured competition will strengthen our cause.

Anyway, my daft-ego aside, I love the idea of us all working together. Very 
much.

@Sandra - re. the Top 10 - I see zero problem in opening that up to full 
scrutiny: 
http://igda-gasig.org/about-game-accessibility/game-accessibility-top-ten/ - 
However, as that takes time, you'll see that may put in perspective how it 
came about. A list being needed very quickly for support with this: 
http://igda-gasig.org/2011/10/11/announcement-partnering-with-film-victoria/. 
Not ideal, I agree. Aside from how it came about (and more in its defence, 
the list was heavily influenced by the original top 10, and the many 
discussions on this list) - feel free to let rip with your thoughts for 
improvements.

Barrie


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Spohn" <steve at ablegamers.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:04 PM
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

> I want to thank all those who saw the forest through the trees on the
> subject.
>
> To Barrie: You and I have had many discussions about SIG, AG and SE - I
> truly believe if you wanted to ask about that one second line in an 
> overall
> video you would have e-mailed me personally and not blasted it to the sig.
> it's difficult for me to believe that you were not just stirring the pot.
>
> Here's the thing. Nine months ago SpecialEffect and ablegamers were going 
> to
> collaborate on exactly what you are talking about. A set of guidelines 
> that
> would be on a third-party neutral website that would send people to both 
> of
> our websites and at the same time allow us to point developers to a 
> neutral
> ground explaining the W3C accessibility type standards. We were going to
> design this and then bring it to sig for suggestions and then post it for
> the world to see. Nine months later, the ball is still in your court and 
> we
> are still waiting for you to get back to Mark on this project.
>
> As far as I understand, in the meantime, you have started up your own
> website to do what ablegamers is already doing, review mainstream games. 
> So
> once again, instead of collaborating, we will be at odds.
>
> Why can everyone not work together towards the same goal? If we would all
> take a single task in the movement we would be so much stronger. To quote
> the great Roman philosophy "We are not a single clenched fist. We are but
> fingers wiggling free without being set to single purpose."
>
> Set mind to single purpose!
>
> Steve Spohn
> Editor-In-Chief
> The AbleGamers Foundation
>
> www.ablegamers.com - community site
> www.ablegamers.org - foundation website
> www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility
>
> Skype ID Steve_Spohn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of Barrie Ellis
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:41 PM
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
>
> Peace is a good thing. I was likely out of order to bring it up, and only
> showing my pettiness. Sorry.
>
> I would love to see the disparate organisations find something to come
> together with, that we can all back... Maybe some kind of W3C Game
> Accessibility guidelines. Maybe someone independent could come up with the
> bare bones, then bring in AbleGamers, IGDA GASIG, SpecialEffect and all 
> the
> others with an interest to flesh it out and all put our stamp on it? That 
> I
> would love to see very much. That might also show recognition for one
> another all round.
>
> Barrie
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:11 PM
> To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> peace?
>>
>> Everyone is doing what they can. I personally do not like this
>> attitude from both sides.
>> Both sides are right and wrong. The wrong part is because there are
>> emotion and this topic is a really hard hard hard work. And another
>> reason is that we sometimes miss open minds.
>> So why don't we work together?
>>
>> Maybe we should look at ourselves and look what we can change so we
>> can work together?
>>
>> This situation besides the SIG and AG is one of the reason I do not
>> work with this SIG, like I would like to do. To be honest I do not see
>> any team work, including letting the members participate in this SIG.
>> (The Top Ten Version two was made without participation of the
>> members!)
>>
>> So I started to work on my one stuff long time ago. I do not have the
>> feeling that new point of views are accepted. So I have my own
>> philosophy, sent my own paper to the UN and created my own project
>> concept without the SIG.
>>
>> But I do not like this ...
>>
>> Maybe we should look how we can make this SIG working again as a team
>> (and including all members) and hopefully in a partnership with the
>> AG?
>>
>> I would love to see something like this: Look there is a video about
>> AG, great!
>> (And maybe the AG does mention this SIG in the Video?)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4895 - Release Date: 03/26/12
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 



From oneswitch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:48:55 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:48:55 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W101D5AB5BD05721BEA9133E91450@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.5519.1332773982.66259.games_access@igda.org>
	<DUB114-W101D5AB5BD05721BEA9133E91450@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B8BD7498CBE847AF9DA17FCC7511D533@OneSwitchPC>

That is a mighty fine list. Many thanks all.

Barrie


From: Ian Hamilton 
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:45 PM
To: games_access at igda.org 
Subject: Re: [games_access] Request for help


Sorry, hit reply without setting subject or editing content so these will have been lost amongst the long email thread. So again, a few examples...Blind / visually impaired:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/scared-of-the-dark-a-look-at-the-audio-game-papa-sangre.ars http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/04/stem-stumper-puzzle-gaming-for-visually-impaired-on-the-iphone.ars http://www.gamebase.info/magazine/read/the-explorer-and-the-mystery-of-the-diamond-scarab-launch_489.html http://www.blind-games.com/entombed.aspx http://rockvibe.wordpress.com/ http://agrip.org.uk/ http://www.vifit.org/ ... and also a huge number in the dropdown at the bottom of the page here: http://audiogames.net/ Colour-blind:http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-color-palettes-available-colorblind-playershttp://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-gets-colorblind-options.htmlhttp://digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/50-modern-warfare-3-color-blind-optionhttp://support.popcap.com/colorblind-option (PopCap = legends) 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:53:08 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:53:08 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Request for help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5614.1332784139.66258.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5614.1332784139.66258.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W659094ECE20E46A0334A6091450@phx.gbl>


Bugger, does anyone else have paragraph issues with this mailing list? Mine get broken like this all the time :(

> 
> Sorry, hit reply without setting subject or editing content so these will have been lost amongst the long email thread. So again, a few examples...
> Blind / visually impaired:
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/scared-of-the-dark-a-look-at-the-audio-game-papa-sangre.ars http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/04/stem-stumper-puzzle-gaming-for-visually-impaired-on-the-iphone.ars http://www.gamebase.info/magazine/read/the-explorer-and-the-mystery-of-the-diamond-scarab-launch_489.html http://www.blind-games.com/entombed.aspx http://rockvibe.wordpress.com/ http://agrip.org.uk/ http://www.vifit.org/ 
> ... and also a huge number in the dropdown at the bottom of the page here: http://audiogames.net/ 
> Colour-blind:
> http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-color-palettes-available-colorblind-playershttp://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-gets-colorblind-options.htmlhttp://digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/50-modern-warfare-3-color-blind-optionhttp://support.popcap.com/colorblind-option (PopCap = legends)  		 	   		  

 		 	   		  
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From agdev at thechases.com  Mon Mar 26 14:01:07 2012
From: agdev at thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine
In-Reply-To: <BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de><E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>	<04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>
	<BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC>
Message-ID: <4F70AEE3.1090704@thechases.com>

On 03/26/12 12:47, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> @Sandra - re. the Top 10 - I see zero problem in opening that up to full
> scrutiny:
> http://igda-gasig.org/about-game-accessibility/game-accessibility-top-ten/ -
> However, as that takes time, you'll see that may put in perspective how it
> came about. A list being needed very quickly for support with this:
> http://igda-gasig.org/2011/10/11/announcement-partnering-with-film-victoria/.
> Not ideal, I agree. Aside from how it came about (and more in its defence,
> the list was heavily influenced by the original top 10, and the many
> discussions on this list) - feel free to let rip with your thoughts for
> improvements.

As the guilty party who threw together one of the early drafts of 
the Top 10[1], I'll be the first to admit it could use work. 
There was a conference around the corner, and I seem to remember 
the aim being to get some semblance of a Top-10 list out the door 
with as much useful material as possible without swamping the 
reader.  So suggestions/improvements won't offend me :-)

-tim

[1]
http://tim.thechases.com/top10.pdf



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Mar 26 14:10:33 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:10:33 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List)
In-Reply-To: <4F70AEE3.1090704@thechases.com>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de><E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>	<04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>	<BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC>
	<4F70AEE3.1090704@thechases.com>
Message-ID: <009101cd0b7b$bd3d3340$37b799c0$@de>

Hi, 

when I learnt about the Top Ten list
I was able to give feedback and ask questions :-)
That was great.

Best regards,
Sandra

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Tim Chase
Gesendet: Montag, 26. M?rz 2012 20:01
An: Barrie Ellis; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine

On 03/26/12 12:47, Barrie Ellis wrote:
> @Sandra - re. the Top 10 - I see zero problem in opening that up to full
> scrutiny:
> http://igda-gasig.org/about-game-accessibility/game-accessibility-top-ten/
-
> However, as that takes time, you'll see that may put in perspective how it
> came about. A list being needed very quickly for support with this:
>
http://igda-gasig.org/2011/10/11/announcement-partnering-with-film-victoria/
.
> Not ideal, I agree. Aside from how it came about (and more in its defence,
> the list was heavily influenced by the original top 10, and the many
> discussions on this list) - feel free to let rip with your thoughts for
> improvements.

As the guilty party who threw together one of the early drafts of 
the Top 10[1], I'll be the first to admit it could use work. 
There was a conference around the corner, and I seem to remember 
the aim being to get some semblance of a Top-10 list out the door 
with as much useful material as possible without swamping the 
reader.  So suggestions/improvements won't offend me :-)

-tim

[1]
http://tim.thechases.com/top10.pdf

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From inrnette at aol.com  Mon Mar 26 17:32:11 2012
From: inrnette at aol.com (Jeanette Morgan)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:32:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [games_access] (no subject)
Message-ID: <8CED9AF09B98696-15BC-203F8@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>

http://looklistenandlearn.org/wordpress/wp-content/flgallery/images/yaung.htm?folder.great




From steve at ablegamers.com  Mon Mar 26 17:37:42 2012
From: steve at ablegamers.com (Steve Spohn)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:37:42 -0400
Subject: [games_access] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8CED9AF09B98696-15BC-203F8@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CED9AF09B98696-15BC-203F8@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <053301cd0b98$ad51b4c0$07f51e40$@ablegamers.com>

Virus DO NOT CLICK

Steve Spohn
Editor-In-Chief
The AbleGamers Foundation

www.ablegamers.com - community site
www.ablegamers.org - foundation website
www.gameaccessibility.org - learn the basics of game accessibility

Skype ID Steve_Spohn


-----Original Message-----
From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Jeanette Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:32 PM
To: fxrqfdrqayqxmqg at TheNetPanel-mail.net; games_access at igda.org;
games_access-request at igda.org; garbagemail123 at comcast.net; gary at clix.pt;
oveson at bellsouth.net; gerald.whitley at hotmail.com; gfg at catcareers.info
Subject: [games_access] (no subject)

http://looklistenandlearn.org/wordpress/wp-content/flgallery/images/yaung.ht
m?folder.great


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4895 - Release Date: 03/26/12



From blazeeagle at suddenlink.net  Tue Mar 27 04:37:37 2012
From: blazeeagle at suddenlink.net (blazeeagle at suddenlink.net)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:37:37 -0400
Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 98, Issue 32
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5614.1332784139.66258.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.5614.1332784139.66258.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <ED148D44DC674EB3A2D8000A4BBBA3CD@Aarons>

I was under the impression that everyone was already cooperating together 
regarding game accessibility & we were just discussing the various 
variations of game accessibility to help improve general overall  game 
accessibility ,  I wasn't aware a controversy was occurring ...

I've gained much more insight about game accessibility ever since being a 
part of this excellent, cooperative email email list.


Aaron aka "BlazeEagle" 



From sandra_uhling at web.de  Tue Mar 27 05:19:34 2012
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:19:34 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Pictures for award needed
Message-ID: <002a01cd0bfa$bbe15a10$33a40e30$@de>

Hello, 

I need pictures to take part in an award for social projects.
I need pictures that can be used by media to show the topic
Game Accessibility.

I need to have the rights on this pictures, so they can use them.

Deadline: Next Sunday



Best regards,
Sandra



From thomasw at dsv.su.se  Tue Mar 27 14:50:41 2012
From: thomasw at dsv.su.se (Thomas Westin)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:50:41 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List)
In-Reply-To: <009101cd0b7b$bd3d3340$37b799c0$@de>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de><E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>	<04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>	<BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC>
	<4F70AEE3.1090704@thechases.com>
	<009101cd0b7b$bd3d3340$37b799c0$@de>
Message-ID: <0D1C5230-05A5-45E9-94F5-47DEC3BBCDCC@dsv.su.se>

All,

I understand from Steve that the comment wasn't meant to be perceived the way it was, and a result of editing the video. IMHO I agree with Richard. It is always hazardous to talk about being first at anything, which editors should be aware of; I once talked about Terraformers as the first 3D game for blind and sighted; someone pointed me to a prototype game which was released some time before TF. So, we were not first, although certainly among the first, and perhaps the most serious attempt so far. Or so I thought, until the AudioQuake mod was released about the same time - or was it before/after?. And so on. I bet I would find a blind accessible game with 3D graphics from 1980 if I looked long enough :) But that is the danger of research, you may end up producing nothing but papers, and I strongly wanted to do a game which would make some difference. 

- The point with this is that it is not very interesting who did what first, because that depends on so many factors of what you actually were first about doing. When it comes to this SIG it just popped up in my mind at the first time I visited GDC in 2003: when I looked at the speaker schedule accessibility was nowhere to be found. So when I came home, I e-mailed IGDA and we got started. I didn't do much more research than that - it just felt like a good idea to do at the time, to get the issue on the GDC agenda.

Further, I don't agree with some of the comments about the SIG in this thread. A quick summary of the SIG history may be useful. In May 2004 we released the IGDA white paper, the result of weekly meetings with about 6 people for 8 months. After that was released I stepped down as chairperson for personal reasons, and Michelle worked really hard for years. I also think Tara has done a great job; the new website and the work with Victoria film is very much thanks to her, I believe. Further, I have met many in the research community via this list, and at GDC the SIG has worked hard to reach out to the industry, every year since 2004. The SIG has also been at Develop conference and E3. The top ten list, the Game Accessibility Arcade, the roundtables, the GA-SIG DVD handouts, the Game Accessibility Day etc are examples of what has been done by the SIG. I agree that we could do more (you always can) but I think everyone is doing their best, as Sarah said. 

Finally, to relate to the discussion about collaboration. Collaboration is good, but it is sometimes necessary - maybe even better - to do things yourself / within your local organization. All the organizations which has been mentioned in this thread, had not existed if everyone had been just talking rather than creating them. I like to see all the organizations as gearwheels in an engine. They all fill a purpose, and need each other to advance the car/cause, while being individual units. And which gearwheel that started spinning first is not so important. And what gear the driver has selected to drive the car at the moment is not that interesting either. It is the fact they are working locally which is most important, everything may not be possible to do bilaterally.

So to everyone here - with various involvement in other organizations / gearwheels, I would like to say: keep on doing what you are doing, with or without collaboration with other organizations. Just keep spinning! All we need is <your-choice-of-eco-friendly-fuel> and some oil. The media attention like both AbleGamers and SpecialEffect has received recently are great power-plants. 

Does this make any sense?

Mvh / Best regards
Thomas Westin
Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86

On 26Mar 2012, at 8:10 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> when I learnt about the Top Ten list
> I was able to give feedback and ask questions :-)
> That was great.
> 
> Best regards,
> Sandra
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von Tim Chase
> Gesendet: Montag, 26. M?rz 2012 20:01
> An: Barrie Ellis; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
> 
> On 03/26/12 12:47, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>> @Sandra - re. the Top 10 - I see zero problem in opening that up to full
>> scrutiny:
>> http://igda-gasig.org/about-game-accessibility/game-accessibility-top-ten/
> -
>> However, as that takes time, you'll see that may put in perspective how it
>> came about. A list being needed very quickly for support with this:
>> 
> http://igda-gasig.org/2011/10/11/announcement-partnering-with-film-victoria/
> .
>> Not ideal, I agree. Aside from how it came about (and more in its defence,
>> the list was heavily influenced by the original top 10, and the many
>> discussions on this list) - feel free to let rip with your thoughts for
>> improvements.
> 
> As the guilty party who threw together one of the early drafts of 
> the Top 10[1], I'll be the first to admit it could use work. 
> There was a conference around the corner, and I seem to remember 
> the aim being to get some semblance of a Top-10 list out the door 
> with as much useful material as possible without swamping the 
> reader.  So suggestions/improvements won't offend me :-)
> 
> -tim
> 
> [1]
> http://tim.thechases.com/top10.pdf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From oneswitch at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 02:24:44 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:24:44 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Colour-Blind accessible game design
Message-ID: <90E2C21D7D404B03B30AD3BE61134447@OneSwitchPC>

One more to add to the pot of games with accessible design for colour-blind players I've just discovered is Bust-a-Move 4 from Taito in 2000 (my version on Dreamcast).

Quick video here to demonstrate what they did to overcome colour issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGDL7194aeI.

Good old Dreamcast.

Barrie
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From oneswitch at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 11:30:05 2012
From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:30:05 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List)
In-Reply-To: <0D1C5230-05A5-45E9-94F5-47DEC3BBCDCC@dsv.su.se>
References: <385B5E6B294C4D49BEDD239ED191FB43@OneSwitchPC>	<4F70845B.5020108@audiogames.net>	<CADWyad_H_2N7hxsoC+K5mN5_EKHn=ReyOkfqC5f4Z9ad=KjWZQ@mail.gmail.com><046501cd0b69$022197c0$0664c740$@ablegamers.com>	<003901cd0b6b$0aa58bc0$1ff0a340$@de><E5D149032BE14D66961EAB3C6B38709F@OneSwitchPC>	<04aa01cd0b72$846dfb70$8d49f250$@ablegamers.com>	<BFE2EDB641BF410CA8E2F1FF889C1A9D@OneSwitchPC><4F70AEE3.1090704@thechases.com><009101cd0b7b$bd3d3340$37b799c0$@de>
	<0D1C5230-05A5-45E9-94F5-47DEC3BBCDCC@dsv.su.se>
Message-ID: <9D25C975CB454390AD9B8AEA011F7144@OneSwitchPC>

It makes perfect sense.

Also just to add to the list of what the GASIG has achieved, is that it 
really did break-down a sense of isolation for many people working in game 
accessibility, bringing (and continuing to bring) like-minded people 
together.

Good on you IGDA GASIG members, past, present and future; for all the work 
you do to break down barriers. Lots has been done, and lots left to do.

Barrie


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Thomas Westin" <thomasw at dsv.su.se>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:50 PM
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List)

> All,
>
> I understand from Steve that the comment wasn't meant to be perceived the 
> way it was, and a result of editing the video. IMHO I agree with Richard. 
> It is always hazardous to talk about being first at anything, which 
> editors should be aware of; I once talked about Terraformers as the first 
> 3D game for blind and sighted; someone pointed me to a prototype game 
> which was released some time before TF. So, we were not first, although 
> certainly among the first, and perhaps the most serious attempt so far. Or 
> so I thought, until the AudioQuake mod was released about the same time - 
> or was it before/after?. And so on. I bet I would find a blind accessible 
> game with 3D graphics from 1980 if I looked long enough :) But that is the 
> danger of research, you may end up producing nothing but papers, and I 
> strongly wanted to do a game which would make some difference.
>
> - The point with this is that it is not very interesting who did what 
> first, because that depends on so many factors of what you actually were 
> first about doing. When it comes to this SIG it just popped up in my mind 
> at the first time I visited GDC in 2003: when I looked at the speaker 
> schedule accessibility was nowhere to be found. So when I came home, I 
> e-mailed IGDA and we got started. I didn't do much more research than 
> that - it just felt like a good idea to do at the time, to get the issue 
> on the GDC agenda.
>
> Further, I don't agree with some of the comments about the SIG in this 
> thread. A quick summary of the SIG history may be useful. In May 2004 we 
> released the IGDA white paper, the result of weekly meetings with about 6 
> people for 8 months. After that was released I stepped down as chairperson 
> for personal reasons, and Michelle worked really hard for years. I also 
> think Tara has done a great job; the new website and the work with 
> Victoria film is very much thanks to her, I believe. Further, I have met 
> many in the research community via this list, and at GDC the SIG has 
> worked hard to reach out to the industry, every year since 2004. The SIG 
> has also been at Develop conference and E3. The top ten list, the Game 
> Accessibility Arcade, the roundtables, the GA-SIG DVD handouts, the Game 
> Accessibility Day etc are examples of what has been done by the SIG. I 
> agree that we could do more (you always can) but I think everyone is doing 
> their best, as Sarah said.
>
> Finally, to relate to the discussion about collaboration. Collaboration is 
> good, but it is sometimes necessary - maybe even better - to do things 
> yourself / within your local organization. All the organizations which has 
> been mentioned in this thread, had not existed if everyone had been just 
> talking rather than creating them. I like to see all the organizations as 
> gearwheels in an engine. They all fill a purpose, and need each other to 
> advance the car/cause, while being individual units. And which gearwheel 
> that started spinning first is not so important. And what gear the driver 
> has selected to drive the car at the moment is not that interesting 
> either. It is the fact they are working locally which is most important, 
> everything may not be possible to do bilaterally.
>
> So to everyone here - with various involvement in other organizations / 
> gearwheels, I would like to say: keep on doing what you are doing, with or 
> without collaboration with other organizations. Just keep spinning! All we 
> need is <your-choice-of-eco-friendly-fuel> and some oil. The media 
> attention like both AbleGamers and SpecialEffect has received recently are 
> great power-plants.
>
> Does this make any sense?
>
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
>
> On 26Mar 2012, at 8:10 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> when I learnt about the Top Ten list
>> I was able to give feedback and ask questions :-)
>> That was great.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] 
>> Im
>> Auftrag von Tim Chase
>> Gesendet: Montag, 26. M?rz 2012 20:01
>> An: Barrie Ellis; IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> Betreff: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine
>>
>> On 03/26/12 12:47, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>>> @Sandra - re. the Top 10 - I see zero problem in opening that up to full
>>> scrutiny:
>>> http://igda-gasig.org/about-game-accessibility/game-accessibility-top-ten/
>> -
>>> However, as that takes time, you'll see that may put in perspective how 
>>> it
>>> came about. A list being needed very quickly for support with this:
>>>
>> http://igda-gasig.org/2011/10/11/announcement-partnering-with-film-victoria/
>> .
>>> Not ideal, I agree. Aside from how it came about (and more in its 
>>> defence,
>>> the list was heavily influenced by the original top 10, and the many
>>> discussions on this list) - feel free to let rip with your thoughts for
>>> improvements.
>>
>> As the guilty party who threw together one of the early drafts of
>> the Top 10[1], I'll be the first to admit it could use work.
>> There was a conference around the corner, and I seem to remember
>> the aim being to get some semblance of a Top-10 list out the door
>> with as much useful material as possible without swamping the
>> reader.  So suggestions/improvements won't offend me :-)
>>
>> -tim
>>
>> [1]
>> http://tim.thechases.com/top10.pdf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 



From i_h at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 28 11:30:54 2012
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:30:54 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List) (Thomas Westin)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1332943205.3205.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.9.1332943205.3205.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W6591C57E711AA971BEC7EA914B0@phx.gbl>


Total sense and couldn't agree more. No matter what any individual, organisation or group of organisations does it all helps to raise overall awareness and knowledge, which in turn directly benefits all of the individual efforts, and more importantly, the gamers themselves.
Ian

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:50:41 +0200
> From: Thomas Westin <thomasw at dsv.su.se>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Whinge and whine (Top Ten List)
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <0D1C5230-05A5-45E9-94F5-47DEC3BBCDCC at dsv.su.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> All,
> 
> I understand from Steve that the comment wasn't meant to be perceived the way it was, and a result of editing the video. IMHO I agree with Richard. It is always hazardous to talk about being first at anything, which editors should be aware of; I once talked about Terraformers as the first 3D game for blind and sighted; someone pointed me to a prototype game which was released some time before TF. So, we were not first, although certainly among the first, and perhaps the most serious attempt so far. Or so I thought, until the AudioQuake mod was released about the same time - or was it before/after?. And so on. I bet I would find a blind accessible game with 3D graphics from 1980 if I looked long enough :) But that is the danger of research, you may end up producing nothing but papers, and I strongly wanted to do a game which would make some difference. 
> 
> - The point with this is that it is not very interesting who did what first, because that depends on so many factors of what you actually were first about doing. When it comes to this SIG it just popped up in my mind at the first time I visited GDC in 2003: when I looked at the speaker schedule accessibility was nowhere to be found. So when I came home, I e-mailed IGDA and we got started. I didn't do much more research than that - it just felt like a good idea to do at the time, to get the issue on the GDC agenda.
> 
> Further, I don't agree with some of the comments about the SIG in this thread. A quick summary of the SIG history may be useful. In May 2004 we released the IGDA white paper, the result of weekly meetings with about 6 people for 8 months. After that was released I stepped down as chairperson for personal reasons, and Michelle worked really hard for years. I also think Tara has done a great job; the new website and the work with Victoria film is very much thanks to her, I believe. Further, I have met many in the research community via this list, and at GDC the SIG has worked hard to reach out to the industry, every year since 2004. The SIG has also been at Develop conference and E3. The top ten list, the Game Accessibility Arcade, the roundtables, the GA-SIG DVD handouts, the Game Accessibility Day etc are examples of what has been done by the SIG. I agree that we could do more (you always can) but I think everyone is doing their best, as Sarah said. 
> 
> Finally, to relate to the discussion about collaboration. Collaboration is good, but it is sometimes necessary - maybe even better - to do things yourself / within your local organization. All the organizations which has been mentioned in this thread, had not existed if everyone had been just talking rather than creating them. I like to see all the organizations as gearwheels in an engine. They all fill a purpose, and need each other to advance the car/cause, while being individual units. And which gearwheel that started spinning first is not so important. And what gear the driver has selected to drive the car at the moment is not that interesting either. It is the fact they are working locally which is most important, everything may not be possible to do bilaterally.
> 
> So to everyone here - with various involvement in other organizations / gearwheels, I would like to say: keep on doing what you are doing, with or without collaboration with other organizations. Just keep spinning! All we need is <your-choice-of-eco-friendly-fuel> and some oil. The media attention like both AbleGamers and SpecialEffect has received recently are great power-plants. 
> 
> Does this make any sense?
> 
> Mvh / Best regards
> Thomas Westin
> Stockholm University :: dsv.su.se :: +46 73-707 86 86
> 

 		 	   		  
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