From sandra_uhling at web.de Mon Jun 10 10:41:43 2013 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:41:43 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Misuse of terms Message-ID: <009901ce65e8$a1595f50$e40c1df0$@de> Hello, maybe we need to clarify some terms? Does the IGDA have some time of glossary? Game Accessibility: yes: "Game Accessibility can be defined as the ability to play a game even when functioning under limiting conditions. Limiting conditions can be functional limitations, or disabilities - such as blindness, deafness, or mobility limitations." no: A game is easy to learn and understand. Audio Game: yes: A game that can be played only with sound (it can have graphics but it does not have to). Usually they do not have graphics at all. no: A game where the sound is also important for gameplay. Best regards, Sandra From sandra_uhling at web.de Mon Jun 10 10:53:31 2013 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:53:31 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Audio games Message-ID: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Hello, there is an article that says: Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." This is confusing. Did he really say this? Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio game". Best regards, Sandra From jrporter at uw.edu Mon Jun 10 11:28:49 2013 From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 08:28:49 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Message-ID: This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that *can* be played with *only* audio," rather than "games that *can't* be played * without* audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to audio accessibility. -John ** *-- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net University of Washington,** Human Centered Design & Engineering* On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > there is an article that says: > > Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: > "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." > > This is confusing. Did he really say this? > Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio > game". > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michellehinn at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 11:36:38 2013 From: michellehinn at gmail.com (Michelle Hinn) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 11:36:38 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Message-ID: Sander also may have written this some time ago and English is not his native language, which doesn't explain the issue with anything I've ever written ;)...but may have influenced a more narrow definition. Certainly there are more options for non-visual communication available to the market as viable potential alternatives to visuals now. This may simply be a matter of Sander just not having realized that the definition was still on the web in that format -- he may or may not wish to expand on it now. I'll let him answer that though. :) Michelle On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM, John R. Porter wrote: > This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. > > In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a > game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. > However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, > there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition > can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with > complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that *can*be played with > *only* audio," rather than "games that *can't* be played *without*audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might > technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition > of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different > approaches to audio accessibility. > > -John > > ** > > *-- -- -- -- -- > John R. Porter III > www.jrp3.net > University of Washington,** > Human Centered Design & Engineering* > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > >> Hello, >> there is an article that says: >> >> Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: >> "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." >> >> This is confusing. Did he really say this? >> Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio >> game". >> >> Best regards, >> Sandra >> >> _______________________________________________ >> games_access mailing list >> games_access at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access >> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at gamesoundcon.com Mon Jun 10 12:38:52 2013 From: brian at gamesoundcon.com (Brian Schmidt) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:38:52 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Message-ID: <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> ? there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Hello?I?m new to the list. I found that last point by John to be quite interesting. I just finished developing what I consider to be an ?audio game?, in that it uses sound as its primary gameplay element. However I did find that when considering fully sighted players, some visual elements were very helpful (particularly for some features where I added VoiceOver feedback for the visually impaired player). So in a strange way, adding visuals made the game more ?accessible? to the fully sighted player, whom I found to be less likely to focus purely on the sound, even when I?d originally presented them with what was essentially a blank screen originally. Brian Schmidt Founder, EarGames Executive Director, GameSoundCon Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:29 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that can be played with only audio," rather than "games that can't be played without audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to audio accessibility. -John -- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net University of Washington, Human Centered Design & Engineering On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote: Hello, there is an article that says: Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." This is confusing. Did he really say this? Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio game". Best regards, Sandra _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at westin.nu Mon Jun 10 12:53:09 2013 From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:53:09 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I second that; it was the idea we also had with Terraformers; I previously made an audio game prototype but sighted gamers found it very hard to understand. It can be explained using Heideggers term 'breakdown', when something (e.g. a game) doesn't work the way you expect, a breakdown occurs, going from ready-to-hand to present-at-hand. (Now, looking back at Terraformers, it breaks many design rules so it is not a good UI example by far, but I just share your experience) Best regards, Thomas On 10Jun 2013, at 6:38 PM, Brian Schmidt wrote: > ? there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Hello?I?m new to the list. > I found that last point by John to be quite interesting. I just finished developing what I consider to be an ?audio game?, in that it uses sound as its primary gameplay element. However I did find that when considering fully sighted players, some visual elements were very helpful (particularly for some features where I added VoiceOver feedback for the visually impaired player). So in a strange way, adding visuals made the game more ?accessible? to the fully sighted player, whom I found to be less likely to focus purely on the sound, even when I?d originally presented them with what was essentially a blank screen originally. > > Brian Schmidt > Founder, EarGames > Executive Director, GameSoundCon > Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC > > > From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:29 AM > To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games > > This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. > > In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that can be played with only audio," rather than "games that can't be played without audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to audio accessibility. > > -John > > -- -- -- -- -- > John R. Porter III > www.jrp3.net > University of Washington, > Human Centered Design & Engineering > > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > there is an article that says: > > Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: > "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." > > This is confusing. Did he really say this? > Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio > game". > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From i_h at hotmail.com Mon Jun 10 13:27:55 2013 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:27:55 +0100 Subject: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 114, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Brian, very nice to meet you! > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:38:52 -0700 > From: "Brian Schmidt" > Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games > To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'" > > Message-ID: <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > ? there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition > can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Hello?I?m new to the list. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From news at ebass.nl Mon Jun 10 14:22:06 2013 From: news at ebass.nl (Sander H.) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:22:06 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Message-ID: <51B6194E.8070204@ebass.nl> Hi all, Sander reporting... :D Well, I suppose that is an old phrase displayed on the home screen of AudioGames.net, probably in the 2005 era. Back then, we considered something being an audio game when information or feedback in the auditory domain was a basic fundamental of a game and we called it /hybrid/ (ahhh, the good old h-word!) when the main interaction relied on various sensory domains (e.g. "The Curb Game" which can be played with or without visuals, with or without sound - but obviously not without sound AND visuals). If something is fundamentally important and necessary one could easily define it this way, but it was never our intention to confuse anyone. I agree that it's better to make such a definition more positive sounding. Nowadays, we do have a different description on AudioGames.net... :D Warm regards, Sander Welcome at AudioGames.net! AudioGames.net is a community portal for audio games: games based on sound. An audio game is a game that consists (only) of sound. On 6/10/13 5:36 PM, Michelle Hinn wrote: > Sander also may have written this some time ago and English is not his > native language, which doesn't explain the issue with anything I've > ever written ;)...but may have influenced a more narrow definition. > Certainly there are more options for non-visual communication > available to the market as viable potential alternatives to visuals > now. This may simply be a matter of Sander just not having realized > that the definition was still on the web in that format -- he may or > may not wish to expand on it now. I'll let him answer that though. :) > > Michelle > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM, John R. Porter > wrote: > > This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. > > In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it > describes a game whose progression-critical information is > communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard > from various users and developers, there is still some debate on > whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any > other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those > with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games > that /can/ be played with /only/ audio," rather than "games that > /can't/ be played /without/ audio." Again, it's largely a semantic > difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate > for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think > the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to > audio accessibility. > > -John > > ** > > *-- -- -- -- -- > John R. Porter III > www.jrp3.net > University of Washington,** > Human Centered Design & Engineering* > > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling > > wrote: > > Hello, > there is an article that says: > > Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net > , said: > "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." > > This is confusing. Did he really say this? > Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play > an "audio > game". > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at gamesoundcon.com Mon Jun 10 16:40:32 2013 From: brian at gamesoundcon.com (Brian Schmidt) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:40:32 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: <046f01ce661a$c1133f50$4339bdf0$@gamesoundcon.com> Hi Thomas, I hadn?t heard of Heidegger?s ?Breakdown?. But that seems to have been what was happening when I?d originally given my ?100% only audio? game to sighted players. They were desperate to latch onto something visual because that?s what the little screen is for. One told me they couldn?t take their eyes off the visual timer countdown in the top right corner. (The gameplay itself is essentially a timed audio fruit-ninja/whack-a-mole, but with sound only.) I ended up using visual enemies to re-enforce the audio cues only at the very beginning of the game. I found that by having the first few enemies visible, fading to invisible after the first few, sighted players got accustomed to the notion of sound driving the game. I?m gathering analytics on the different ways the game is played with VoiceOver on or off, presuming that VO-on games are primarily from Visually impaired players, so we?ll see if that small bit of advantage the vision-normal player has over the impaired player makes any significant long-term difference. (it?s a question I need to face when I enable leaderboards next release). Sorry for getting slightly off topic?though I would say that I?d hate to have a game that relies on sound for gameplay, yet still conveys some information visually, not to be called an ?audio game? (?video? games do have sound, too J).. -Brian From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Westin Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:53 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games Hi Brian, I second that; it was the idea we also had with Terraformers; I previously made an audio game prototype but sighted gamers found it very hard to understand. It can be explained using Heideggers term 'breakdown', when something (e.g. a game) doesn't work the way you expect, a breakdown occurs, going from ready-to-hand to present-at-hand. (Now, looking back at Terraformers, it breaks many design rules so it is not a good UI example by far, but I just share your experience) Best regards, Thomas On 10Jun 2013, at 6:38 PM, Brian Schmidt wrote: ? there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Hello?I?m new to the list. I found that last point by John to be quite interesting. I just finished developing what I consider to be an ?audio game?, in that it uses sound as its primary gameplay element. However I did find that when considering fully sighted players, some visual elements were very helpful (particularly for some features where I added VoiceOver feedback for the visually impaired player). So in a strange way, adding visuals made the game more ?accessible? to the fully sighted player, whom I found to be less likely to focus purely on the sound, even when I?d originally presented them with what was essentially a blank screen originally. Brian Schmidt Founder, EarGames Executive Director, GameSoundCon Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:29 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that can be played with only audio," rather than "games that can't be played without audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to audio accessibility. -John -- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net University of Washington, Human Centered Design & Engineering On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling < sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote: Hello, there is an article that says: Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." This is confusing. Did he really say this? Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio game". Best regards, Sandra _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 16:55:22 2013 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 21:55:22 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: <046f01ce661a$c1133f50$4339bdf0$@gamesoundcon.com> References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> <03b801ce65f8$fea89940$fbf9cbc0$@gamesoundcon.com> <046f01ce661a$c1133f50$4339bdf0$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: I quite like Audio Game: A game designed to be fully playable using sound alone. Barrie From: Brian Schmidt Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:40 PM To: 'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games Hi Thomas, I hadn't heard of Heidegger's "Breakdown". But that seems to have been what was happening when I'd originally given my "100% only audio" game to sighted players. They were desperate to latch onto something visual because that's what the little screen is for. One told me they couldn't take their eyes off the visual timer countdown in the top right corner. (The gameplay itself is essentially a timed audio fruit-ninja/whack-a-mole, but with sound only.) I ended up using visual enemies to re-enforce the audio cues only at the very beginning of the game. I found that by having the first few enemies visible, fading to invisible after the first few, sighted players got accustomed to the notion of sound driving the game. I'm gathering analytics on the different ways the game is played with VoiceOver on or off, presuming that VO-on games are primarily from Visually impaired players, so we'll see if that small bit of advantage the vision-normal player has over the impaired player makes any significant long-term difference. (it's a question I need to face when I enable leaderboards next release). Sorry for getting slightly off topic-though I would say that I'd hate to have a game that relies on sound for gameplay, yet still conveys some information visually, not to be called an 'audio game' ("video" games do have sound, too J).. -Brian From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Westin Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:53 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games Hi Brian, I second that; it was the idea we also had with Terraformers; I previously made an audio game prototype but sighted gamers found it very hard to understand. It can be explained using Heideggers term 'breakdown', when something (e.g. a game) doesn't work the way you expect, a breakdown occurs, going from ready-to-hand to present-at-hand. (Now, looking back at Terraformers, it breaks many design rules so it is not a good UI example by far, but I just share your experience) Best regards, Thomas On 10Jun 2013, at 6:38 PM, Brian Schmidt wrote: ? there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Hello-I'm new to the list. I found that last point by John to be quite interesting. I just finished developing what I consider to be an "audio game", in that it uses sound as its primary gameplay element. However I did find that when considering fully sighted players, some visual elements were very helpful (particularly for some features where I added VoiceOver feedback for the visually impaired player). So in a strange way, adding visuals made the game more "accessible" to the fully sighted player, whom I found to be less likely to focus purely on the sound, even when I'd originally presented them with what was essentially a blank screen originally. Brian Schmidt Founder, EarGames Executive Director, GameSoundCon Brian Schmidt Studios, LLC From: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of John R. Porter Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:29 AM To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [games_access] Audio games This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it describes a game whose progression-critical information is communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard from various users and developers, there is still some debate on whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games that can be played with only audio," rather than "games that can't be played without audio." Again, it's largely a semantic difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to audio accessibility. -John -- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net University of Washington, Human Centered Design & Engineering On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote: Hello, there is an article that says: Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net, said: "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." This is confusing. Did he really say this? Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play an "audio game". Best regards, Sandra _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From news at ebass.nl Wed Jun 12 03:22:46 2013 From: news at ebass.nl (Sander H.) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:22:46 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Misuse of terms In-Reply-To: <009901ce65e8$a1595f50$e40c1df0$@de> References: <009901ce65e8$a1595f50$e40c1df0$@de> Message-ID: <51B821C6.4030405@ebass.nl> On 6/10/13 4:41 PM, Sandra Uhling wrote: > Hello, > > Audio Game: > yes: A game that can be played only with sound (it can have graphics but it > does not have to). Usually they do not have graphics at all. > > no: A game where the sound is also important for gameplay. > Hi Sandra, As a designer I'd wonder one thing about this definition: How would one actually play a game without visuals when sound is not important for gameplay? Do you separate gameplay from play or interaction? Is gameplay the result of interaction? Warm regards, Sander From eleanor at 7128.com Wed Jun 12 08:23:26 2013 From: eleanor at 7128.com (Eleanor Robinson) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:23:26 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Audio Games Message-ID: <51B8683E.5000609@7128.com> Brian was talking about using visual clues for the sighted player to accustom them to playing using hearing only. And then he mentioned a small bit of advantage that the sighted player had over the non-sighted player. We, at 7-128 Software have several word games that are both audio and visual. We have found that the blind player actually has an advantage in these games because they are playing using the keyboard, while sighted players use the mouse. It is much faster to type in the word than to move the letters in place using the mouse. This results in a fairly level playing field between sighted and non-sighted players. Now if the sighted players go to the help for blind players and start using the keyboard, they have a distinct advantage, but given most people's reluctance to go to help screens, I don't think many do. So, with thought, in some cases, you can get a level playing field and have both audio and visual. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 software From eleanor at 7128.com Wed Jun 12 08:26:05 2013 From: eleanor at 7128.com (Eleanor Robinson) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:26:05 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Audio Games Message-ID: <51B868DD.3080204@7128.com> I agree totally with Barrie that an audio game should be defined as "A game designed to be fully playable using sound alone." Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software From i_h at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 11:11:39 2013 From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton) Date: 12 Jun 2013 08:11:39 -0700 Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Better_switch_support_for_iOS_AND_androi?= =?utf-8?q?d?= Message-ID: Great stuff, native switch support in iOS7, which should finally mean some standardisation and reduce the headaches that devs are currently lumbered with - http://www.iheni.com/ios7-accessibility/ Also komodo is becoming an accessibility service on android, which has some nice potential, such as the ability to map to full screen touch. If that can happen it will mean large numbers of android games - things like canabalt - becoming switch accessible, with zero developer effort. I don't know wether Apple's switch interface will support full screen taps rather than only taps on interface elements, but if it does, again that could mean lots of old games will instantly become switch accessible. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 03:38:28 2013 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:38:28 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Better switch support for iOS AND android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F5FA72E1E00453DB3C60ED6D1E88DD3@OneSwitchPC> Sounds hopeful, but still need that utility/app to allow users to emulate gestures/taps using a switch or two, and other alternative controllers (joypads etc.). This looks great too I thought, with eye and head tracking over mobile devices: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/eye-tracking-tech-will-be-open-to-iphones-others/ Barrie From: Ian Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:11 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: [games_access] Better switch support for iOS AND android Great stuff, native switch support in iOS7, which should finally mean some standardisation and reduce the headaches that devs are currently lumbered with - http://www.iheni.com/ios7-accessibility/ Also komodo is becoming an accessibility service on android, which has some nice potential, such as the ability to map to full screen touch. If that can happen it will mean large numbers of android games - things like canabalt - becoming switch accessible, with zero developer effort. I don't know wether Apple's switch interface will support full screen taps rather than only taps on interface elements, but if it does, again that could mean lots of old games will instantly become switch accessible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oneswitch at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 03:40:09 2013 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:40:09 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Better switch support for iOS AND android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes this was it re. JoyPads: http://toucharcade.com/2013/06/10/wwdc-2013-more-details-emerge-on-official-ios-game-controllers/ As one comment said. About time. From: Ian Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:11 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: [games_access] Better switch support for iOS AND android Great stuff, native switch support in iOS7, which should finally mean some standardisation and reduce the headaches that devs are currently lumbered with - http://www.iheni.com/ios7-accessibility/ Also komodo is becoming an accessibility service on android, which has some nice potential, such as the ability to map to full screen touch. If that can happen it will mean large numbers of android games - things like canabalt - becoming switch accessible, with zero developer effort. I don't know wether Apple's switch interface will support full screen taps rather than only taps on interface elements, but if it does, again that could mean lots of old games will instantly become switch accessible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Thu Jun 13 05:17:07 2013 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 11:17:07 +0200 Subject: [games_access] gamescom Message-ID: <001801ce6816$c86b5690$594203b0$@de> Hello, I would like to make a small concept. When we would have a small stand on the gamescom, how could this look like? And are we able to do it at all? Do we have persons? Do we have equipment? How can we get the equipment to the gamescom? Note: all games need an official usk rating! USK0 or USK6, not higher ... Best regards, Sandra From brian at gamesoundcon.com Mon Jun 17 18:28:13 2013 From: brian at gamesoundcon.com (Brian Schmidt) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:28:13 -0700 Subject: [games_access] Gamasutra article on audio game Message-ID: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> Hello everyone. FYI, I just published a blog post on gamasutra talking about my new game. Around a quarter of the article speaks specifically to accessibility challenges. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BrianSchmidt/20130617/194489/Making_Ear_Monst ers_Developing_a_3D_Audio_Game.php Thanks! -Brian From michellehinn at gmail.com Tue Jun 18 00:10:41 2013 From: michellehinn at gmail.com (Michelle Hinn) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:10:41 -0400 Subject: [games_access] Gamasutra article on audio game In-Reply-To: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> References: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: Great Brian! I will read it in the morning! :) Michelle On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Brian Schmidt wrote: > Hello everyone. > > FYI, I just published a blog post on gamasutra talking about my new game. > Around a quarter of the article speaks specifically to accessibility > challenges. > > > http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BrianSchmidt/20130617/194489/Making_Ear_Monst > ers_Developing_a_3D_Audio_Game.php > > > Thanks! > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandra_uhling at web.de Tue Jun 18 14:25:47 2013 From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:25:47 +0200 Subject: [games_access] WG: BBC Mobile Accessibility Standards - call for feedback Message-ID: <000601ce6c51$41b82120$c5286360$@de> FYI Von: messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com [mailto:messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com] Im Auftrag von Gareth Ford Williams via LinkedIn Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Juni 2013 20:05 An: Sandra Uhling Betreff: BBC Mobile Accessibility Standards - call for feedback Gareth Ford Williams Head of Accessibility, Future Media at BBC Just to let you all know the Draft BBC Mobile Accessibility Guidelines were published today. You can find them on the Future Media Standards and Guidelines site at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/mobile_access.shtml A blog post about them is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/posts/Accessibility-Mobile-Apps The guidelines are in accessible PDF and Word format at the moment but should be in a much more digestible and usable format soon so watch this space. These standards have been developed over the last 18 months and have been developed and tested using the following mobile projects: BBC Olympics, BBC Sport, BBC iPlayer, BBC iPlayer Radio and BBC Weather. We are asking for feedback to identify areas of focus for the the further development of the guidelines and any comments, would be greatly welcome. Best Regards, Gareth Ford Williams Head of Accessibility, BBC Future Media Reply to Gareth TIP You can respond to this message by replying to this email You are receiving LinkedIn message emails. Unsubscribe. This email was intended for Sandra Uhling (Game Accessibility). Learn why we included this. ? 2013, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct. Mountain View, CA 94043, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agdev at thechases.com Thu Jun 20 16:30:50 2013 From: agdev at thechases.com (Tim Chase) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 15:30:50 -0500 Subject: [games_access] More on accessible controllers at HackADay.com Message-ID: <20130620153050.146976cd@bigbox.christie.dr> They've done some other stuff on accessible controllers, but this was a good article: http://hackaday.com/2013/06/20/building-custom-game-controllers-for-people-with-physical-disabilities/ and embedded an AbleGamers video which will hopefully get some nice publicity too. -tim From oneswitch at gmail.com Thu Jun 20 17:23:34 2013 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 22:23:34 +0100 Subject: [games_access] More on accessible controllers at HackADay.com In-Reply-To: <20130620153050.146976cd@bigbox.christie.dr> References: <20130620153050.146976cd@bigbox.christie.dr> Message-ID: <489ACABA652B4449811F3D8E1431C65E@OneSwitchPC> Splendid news. There's obvious reasons why there's a high-price tag on custom made small run items, especially for businesses with physical premises. This stuff's also 9 times out of 10 going to be better built than home-hacks (with safety checks on top). That doesn't matter though. More brains (and there's some brilliant brains featured on Hackaday), and more solutions are needed far beyond the small number of people selling game accessibility gear at the moment. Especially so with the new generation just around the corner. Home hacking of controllers has been going on since the 1970s, but pushes like this on the WWW, from popular geek-hobbyist sites is going to help a lot I think. Barrie From: Tim Chase Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:30 PM To: games_access at igda.org Subject: [games_access] More on accessible controllers at HackADay.com They've done some other stuff on accessible controllers, but this was a good article: http://hackaday.com/2013/06/20/building-custom-game-controllers-for-people-with-physical-disabilities/ and embedded an AbleGamers video which will hopefully get some nice publicity too. -tim _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at westin.nu Fri Jun 21 06:34:20 2013 From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:34:20 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Hack a day modder builds a custom controller for disabled gamers Message-ID: <4BF26EE9-1508-48E6-97EA-05428E48EB75@westin.nu> http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/21/hack-a-day-modder-builds-a-custom-controller-for-disabled-gamers/ Kind regards, Thomas (Sent from my mobile) From richard at audiogames.net Mon Jun 24 12:22:23 2013 From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net)) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:22:23 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Audio games In-Reply-To: References: <00a401ce65ea$46ca51a0$d45ef4e0$@de> Message-ID: <51C8723F.6070204@audiogames.net> Hi guys, We wrote it ages ago. It was just a first definition to work with. Nowadays we mostly describe it as a game which is primarily (or sometimes only) mediated through sound. I guess multiple perspectives on the phenomenon of "audio games" exist which are all equally true. Greets, Richard On 10-6-2013 17:36, Michelle Hinn wrote: > Sander also may have written this some time ago and English is not his > native language, which doesn't explain the issue with anything I've > ever written ;)...but may have influenced a more narrow definition. > Certainly there are more options for non-visual communication > available to the market as viable potential alternatives to visuals > now. This may simply be a matter of Sander just not having realized > that the definition was still on the web in that format -- he may or > may not wish to expand on it now. I'll let him answer that though. :) > > Michelle > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM, John R. Porter > wrote: > > This seems to be mostly an issue of semantics. > > In in the way that we typically use the phrase audiogame, it > describes a game whose progression-critical information is > communicated through sound. However, from what I've seen and heard > from various users and developers, there is still some debate on > whether or not an audiogame by definition can't *also* use any > other supplemental stimuli to communicate as well. > > Personally, when I'm explaining games that are accessible to those > with complete visual impairment, I tend to describe them as "games > that /can/ be played with /only/ audio," rather than "games that > /can't/ be played /without/ audio." Again, it's largely a semantic > difference. While the latter might technically be more accurate > for a certain narrow, specialized definition of audiogame, I think > the former is a bit more inclusive of different approaches to > audio accessibility. > > -John > > ** > > *-- -- -- -- -- > John R. Porter III > www.jrp3.net > University of Washington,** > Human Centered Design & Engineering* > > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Sandra Uhling > > wrote: > > Hello, > there is an article that says: > > Sander Huiberts, the operator of the website audiogames.net > , said: > "An audiogame is a game, that cannot be played without sound." > > This is confusing. Did he really say this? > Imagine blind games do no longer know if they really can play > an "audio > game". > > Best regards, > Sandra > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at audiogames.net Tue Jun 25 12:32:08 2013 From: richard at audiogames.net (Richard (AudioGames.net)) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:32:08 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Gamasutra article on audio game In-Reply-To: References: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: <51C9C608.40203@audiogames.net> Really great! Thank you! On 18-6-2013 6:10, Michelle Hinn wrote: > Great Brian! I will read it in the morning! :) > > Michelle > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Brian Schmidt > wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > FYI, I just published a blog post on gamasutra talking about my > new game. > Around a quarter of the article speaks specifically to accessibility > challenges. > > http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BrianSchmidt/20130617/194489/Making_Ear_Monst > ers_Developing_a_3D_Audio_Game.php > > > > Thanks! > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas at pininteractive.com Wed Jun 26 08:18:48 2013 From: thomas at pininteractive.com (Thomas Westin) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:18:48 +0200 Subject: [games_access] Gamasutra article on audio game In-Reply-To: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> References: <016601ce6ba9$f4d68e70$de83ab50$@gamesoundcon.com> Message-ID: <1BA0240F-9E35-4D44-BE45-56502A5D6D8C@pininteractive.com> A great read and interesting points about accessibility from both the sighted and blind perspectives. /Thomas 18Jun 2013 kl. 12:28 AM skrev Brian Schmidt : > Hello everyone. > > FYI, I just published a blog post on gamasutra talking about my new game. > Around a quarter of the article speaks specifically to accessibility > challenges. > > http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BrianSchmidt/20130617/194489/Making_Ear_Monst > ers_Developing_a_3D_Audio_Game.php > > > Thanks! > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > games_access mailing list > games_access at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org From oneswitch at gmail.com Fri Jun 28 06:21:26 2013 From: oneswitch at gmail.com (Barrie Ellis) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:21:26 +0100 Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility D.I.Y. links Message-ID: <6A1E9B56CF8C411E8192FE71D946122B@OneSwitchPC> Thought I'd post up some Game Accessibility D.I.Y. sites, in light of shiny-new "The Controller Project".... http://switchgaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/diy-game-accessibility.html This is all a bit daunting to the lay person I've no doubt. Would be lovely to have the time to pull it all together in Haynes Manual style (www.haynes.co.uk), with some kind of categorisation system, e.g. they use one spanner for easy and up to five spanners for really hard. Barrie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: