[games_access] XBox One reception on twitter (Steve Spohn)

Wed May 22 11:53:06 EDT 2013

Nice article, esp. the TV mention.

That's the real shame about Kinect, that it's give with one hand take away with the other, when it would be so easy for them to avoid it being bad for anyone, and be left with only the benefits - if only there was enough will from the decision makers.

But still, maybe their advice to developers will be different this time around. Can live in hope I suppose.

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Subject: games_access Digest, Vol 113, Issue 14
Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 5:28 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: XBox One reception on twitter (Steve Spohn)
   2. Re: games_access Digest, Vol 113, Issue 13 (Ian Hamilton)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 11:11:41 -0400
From: Steve Spohn <steve at ablegamers.com>
Subject: Re: [games_access] XBox One reception on twitter
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID:
        <CABrM+MXEyWM-KpdODVxwTCmWHOV1-cc86foQvJAoFxLb9bXoPw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Here's AbleGamers take on it. Accessibility thoughts on Xbox One by
AbleGamers' Rob McCaulley -- You let us down Microsoft --
http://www.ablegamers.com/Disabled-Gamers-General-News/thoughts-on-xbox-one.html

Also, from the conversations AbleGamers has had with Microsoft, they are
aware of the need for greater accessibility with Xbox One. Kinect always
being on was their way of trying to add it. It could work or it could
backfire. Don't forget, Kinect locked many people like myself out, but
added some people like our friend Giddeon from an abilities Expo to the
gamer community.

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:08 AM, John R. Porter <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:

> As I see a lot of these tweets and articles passing through, a great many
> of them come off as somewhat preemptively alarmist to me. People are, in
> many cases, talking about the new Kinect as a controller-killer, but that's
> improbable to the degree of being completely moot. By its nature, its never
> going to be as efficient as a traditional controller for a lot of games, so
> developers will never be crazy enough to force its exclusive use.
>
> Ultimately, the most likely long-term effect of forcing the Kinect
> hardware to be ubiquitous is that games will start to embrace it more
> frequently for *supplemental* interaction. It will be used in addition to,
> not in replacement of, traditional controllers. Admittedly, this is still
> potentially cause for concern among disabled gamers, but it will largely
> depend on how these supplemental interactions manifest.
>
> I don't see games requiring you to suddenly put down the controller and
> start flailing around in the middle of a game very often, because that's
> totally an immersion-breaking and inefficient bit of design. More likely,
> we'll see more and more games using things like Mass Effect's squad voice
> commands, and potentially (depending on hardware capabilities) things like
> gaze tracking for menu navigation and targeting. The Kinect is so much more
> than a tool that lets you play Dance Central, even though that paradigm
> might have dominated the first generation of motion control. That certainly
> doesn't mean it's all the technology has to offer, though.
>
> Just my two cents...
> -John
>
> **
>
> *-- -- -- -- --
> John R. Porter III
> www.jrp3.net
> University of Washington,**
> Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> *
>> *
>> There has been a fair bit of twitter chatter from disabled gamers
>> following the launch announcement, mostly around the fact that it is not
>> possible to buy an XBox without a Kinect, and that it will not turn on
>> without a Kinect attached.
>>
>>
>> Most of the concerns are due to the  the assumption that you won't be
>> able to use the console without gestures and speech. Personally I'd be
>> surprised if the main console interface requires gestures/speech, but
>> Microsoft's statement on the issue shows a pretty dangerous side to it:
>>
>>
>> *"By having it as a consistent part of every Xbox One, game and
>> entertainment creators can build experiences that assume the availability
>> of voice, gesture and natural sensing, leading to unrivaled ease of use,
>> premium experiences and interactivity for you."*
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> This is where the real problem lies. Currently Kinect accessibility at OS
>> level and in non-exclusive games too is pretty good, with simpler
>> alternative input methods often available. MS clearly wants developers to
>> feel assured that all of their players are kinect-capable so that they feel
>> comfortable with greater reliance on Kinect-exclusive input.
>>
>>
>> All of their players being kinect-capable is obviously not the case, and
>> although it's far too early to know for certain I'm concerned that we'll
>> see more and more kinect-exclusive controls, expecting people to be able to
>> move their bodies, talk, and operate complex controls simultaneously.
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> Microsoft could avoid this extremely easily by simple including some
>> accessibility requirements in the XBox One TCRs, but as that would directly
>> clash with the business objective of pushing the new platform.. well, we'll
>> see soon enough.
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *Changes to controller design*
>>
>>
>> @KnarkyBadger
>> @IGNUK hmm as a disabled gamer I think its looks a bit suspect to me dont
>> think I'll be able to use it :(
>>
>>
>> *Kinect required at all times*
>>
>>
>> @spritesbites
>> Dear Microsoft will Xbox One have a kinect REQUIREMENT? What about
>> disabled gamers who struggle with body movements?
>>
>>
>> @CaniLupine
>> Another thing Microsoft overlooked: Disabled gamers. How are they going
>> to use the Kinect if they are physically unable to do what it asks?
>>
>>
>> @pandatr0nics
>> Gamers with various disabilities may have problems with Xbox One being
>> Kinect required we'll just have to wait and see
>>
>>
>> @bagmanman
>> Xbox One requiring Kinect to actually use the device is a HUGE way to
>> alienate the disabled gamer community.
>>
>>
>> @nebulaegirl
>> Ok, new XBOX looks great, but what about game accessibility for disabled
>> gamers? # xboxreveal  # AbleGamers
>>
>>
>> @GamingJay85
>> Wow, back in 2010, I wrote about how Kinect was flipping off disabled
>> gamers and how it'd be a party game implement.
>> http://www.pinkanddeadly.com/?p=283
>>
>>
>> @shogan01
>> but yet again with these consoles #xboxone discriminates the disabled
>> gamer
>>
>>
>> @justineckblad
>> @N0M4DTV As a fellow disabled gamer, whats your take on Xbox1 requiring
>> the kinect? Not sure it works with me in my WC & my bad voice. :/
>>
>>
>> @TheNewBoyWonder
>> @Xbox How does requiring Kinect effect disabled gamer? What if I can't
>> stand on my feet during a 2 hr CoD session?
>>
>>
>> @Zzephferus
>> @MicrosoftXbox Why is the connected needed for the Xbox One to work? What
>> about disabled gamers or gamers with speech problems?
>>
>>
>> @skipsophrenic
>> @NaomiKyle #xboxone as a disabled gamer who relies on the controller
>> reports on it needing the kinect has me concerned need to test b4 buy.
>>
>>
>> *Paying fees for used games*
>>
>>
>> @VirtuousLumox
>> @EmInterrupted As a disabled gamer with no income who uses games to pass
>> the time so I don't rot my brain watching TV, I'm very concerned.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
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>
>

--
Steve Spohn
Editor-In-Chief
The AbleGamers Foundation
AbleGamers.com <http://www.ablegamers.com/> |
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 | Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/ablegamers> |
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 16:28:14 +0100
From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [games_access] games_access Digest, Vol 113, Issue 13
To: "games_access at igda.org" <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID: <DUB116-W96C980EBA213247EC2FE0991A90 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Yep likewise, I'd be astounded if you were required to use speech or gestures in the way that many are assuming, it sounds more like a hardware requirement than a software requirement to me, that the requirement is just for it to be present and plugged in, nothing more. Clearly they're seeing lack of adoption as a barrier to developers using it, so they're trying to guarantee greater adoption.

I totally agree about that being the approach to take too, using it just for optional enhancements, that are either trivial enough that lack of access doesn't matter, or that are also accessible using other input methods.

I haven't done any Kinect development but have worked on a fair few regular webcam games, and the same principle applies.. there are very very few games that genuinely require motion detection, they're almost always perfectly suited to regular controls too. The usual line I've been given is "that would ruin the whole fun of the game".. if what you're seeing as 'the whole fun of the game' is the fact that it uses a novel input device, then you're already in trouble!

I just hope firstly that MS firstly thinks that way too, and secondly gets that message across to developers, as there are certainly plenty of developers crazy enough to do Kinect-exclusives still, even when you've got things like Child of Eden that show how totally unnecessary Kinect-exclusive controls are.

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:08:34 -0700
> From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] XBox One reception on twitter
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <CADWyad-Dfry7bTQ90AOer0ShfZQCHBVXwG9nhFPUTjiU=gxxxg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> As I see a lot of these tweets and articles passing through, a great many
> of them come off as somewhat preemptively alarmist to me. People are, in
> many cases, talking about the new Kinect as a controller-killer, but that's
> improbable to the degree of being completely moot. By its nature, its never
> going to be as efficient as a traditional controller for a lot of games, so
> developers will never be crazy enough to force its exclusive use.
>
> Ultimately, the most likely long-term effect of forcing the Kinect hardware
> to be ubiquitous is that games will start to embrace it more frequently for
> *supplemental* interaction. It will be used in addition to, not in
> replacement of, traditional controllers. Admittedly, this is still
> potentially cause for concern among disabled gamers, but it will largely
> depend on how these supplemental interactions manifest.
>
> I don't see games requiring you to suddenly put down the controller and
> start flailing around in the middle of a game very often, because that's
> totally an immersion-breaking and inefficient bit of design. More likely,
> we'll see more and more games using things like Mass Effect's squad voice
> commands, and potentially (depending on hardware capabilities) things like
> gaze tracking for menu navigation and targeting. The Kinect is so much more
> than a tool that lets you play Dance Central, even though that paradigm
> might have dominated the first generation of motion control. That certainly
> doesn't mean it's all the technology has to offer, though.
>
> Just my two cents...
> -John
>
> **
>
> *-- -- -- -- --
> John R. Porter III
> www.jrp3.net
> University of Washington,**
> Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > *
> > *
> > There has been a fair bit of twitter chatter from disabled gamers
> > following the launch announcement, mostly around the fact that it is not
> > possible to buy an XBox without a Kinect, and that it will not turn on
> > without a Kinect attached.
> >
> >
> > Most of the concerns are due to the  the assumption that you won't be able
> > to use the console without gestures and speech. Personally I'd be surprised
> > if the main console interface requires gestures/speech, but Microsoft's
> > statement on the issue shows a pretty dangerous side to it:
> >
> >
> > *"By having it as a consistent part of every Xbox One, game and
> > entertainment creators can build experiences that assume the availability
> > of voice, gesture and natural sensing, leading to unrivaled ease of use,
> > premium experiences and interactivity for you."*
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > This is where the real problem lies. Currently Kinect accessibility at OS
> > level and in non-exclusive games too is pretty good, with simpler
> > alternative input methods often available. MS clearly wants developers to
> > feel assured that all of their players are kinect-capable so that they feel
> > comfortable with greater reliance on Kinect-exclusive input.
> >
> >
> > All of their players being kinect-capable is obviously not the case, and
> > although it's far too early to know for certain I'm concerned that we'll
> > see more and more kinect-exclusive controls, expecting people to be able to
> > move their bodies, talk, and operate complex controls simultaneously.
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > Microsoft could avoid this extremely easily by simple including some
> > accessibility requirements in the XBox One TCRs, but as that would directly
> > clash with the business objective of pushing the new platform.. well, we'll
> > see soon enough.
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *Changes to controller design*
> >
> >
> > @KnarkyBadger
> > @IGNUK hmm as a disabled gamer I think its looks a bit suspect to me dont
> > think I'll be able to use it :(
> >
> >
> > *Kinect required at all times*
> >
> >
> > @spritesbites
> > Dear Microsoft will Xbox One have a kinect REQUIREMENT? What about
> > disabled gamers who struggle with body movements?
> >
> >
> > @CaniLupine
> > Another thing Microsoft overlooked: Disabled gamers. How are they going to
> > use the Kinect if they are physically unable to do what it asks?
> >
> >
> > @pandatr0nics
> > Gamers with various disabilities may have problems with Xbox One being
> > Kinect required we'll just have to wait and see
> >
> >
> > @bagmanman
> > Xbox One requiring Kinect to actually use the device is a HUGE way to
> > alienate the disabled gamer community.
> >
> >
> > @nebulaegirl
> > Ok, new XBOX looks great, but what about game accessibility for disabled
> > gamers? # xboxreveal  # AbleGamers
> >
> >
> > @GamingJay85
> > Wow, back in 2010, I wrote about how Kinect was flipping off disabled
> > gamers and how it'd be a party game implement.
> > http://www.pinkanddeadly.com/?p=283
> >
> >
> > @shogan01
> > but yet again with these consoles #xboxone discriminates the disabled gamer
> >
> >
> > @justineckblad
> > @N0M4DTV As a fellow disabled gamer, whats your take on Xbox1 requiring
> > the kinect? Not sure it works with me in my WC & my bad voice. :/
> >
> >
> > @TheNewBoyWonder
> > @Xbox How does requiring Kinect effect disabled gamer? What if I can't
> > stand on my feet during a 2 hr CoD session?
> >
> >
> > @Zzephferus
> > @MicrosoftXbox Why is the connected needed for the Xbox One to work? What
> > about disabled gamers or gamers with speech problems?
> >
> >
> > @skipsophrenic
> > @NaomiKyle #xboxone as a disabled gamer who relies on the controller
> > reports on it needing the kinect has me concerned need to test b4 buy.
> >
> >
> > *Paying fees for used games*
> >
> >
> > @VirtuousLumox
> > @EmInterrupted As a disabled gamer with no income who uses games to pass
> > the time so I don't rot my brain watching TV, I'm very concerned.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > games_access mailing list
> > games_access at igda.org
> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> >
> >
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