From thomas at westin.nu  Wed Apr  1 04:14:57 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:14:57 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Presentations up on the GDC Vault
In-Reply-To: <CAMP7f26DJGKm6uR9+LudNYb0aUDvXzWeWtJ-G9cPWiv5szNAsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMP7f26DJGKm6uR9+LudNYb0aUDvXzWeWtJ-G9cPWiv5szNAsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C5C53FD-9237-4F1B-9D9A-754DA097294A@westin.nu>

Very nice of CMP / GDC to give it out for free! 

I have entered a blog post about it:
http://igda-gasig.org/events/

Best regards
Thomas

31Mar 2015 kl. 23:28 skrev Tara Voelker <tvoelker at igda-gasig.org>:

> Hi All!
> 
> The GDC presentations that Thomas, Richard, Ian and I did are up on the GDC vault - for free! 
> 
> No password needed. No everyone who was unable to attend can check out what we did. :D
> 
> Building a Manifesto for Game Accessibility
> 
> The first talk is a panel on game accessibility initiatives by all of us. It breaks down like this:
> 
> http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1021849/Building-a-Manifesto-for-Game
> 
>  
>  Introduction on Game Accessibility
>  Introduction to IGDA Game Accessibility SIG
> Panelist highlight previous initiatives they feel were important
> Review of a survey of gamers and what they thought would be important next steps
>  Panelist highlight what they think should be done next
> Questions
>  
>  
> No More Excuses, Your Guide to Accessible Game Design
> 
> The second talk is on accessibility game design, done by just me.
> 
> http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022172/No-More-Excuses-Your-Guide
> 
>  
> Start with an introduction on game accessibility
> Talk about the number of gamers with disabilities and why you should engage them
> Review of 14 features ?most bang for your buck? features to increase your accessibility
>  Resources
> Thanks!
> Tara
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk  Wed Apr  1 12:34:51 2015
From: barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk (Barrie Ellis)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 17:34:51 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Gaming Redux
Message-ID: <CAEdM-4LEbPRaxcAA_04DWPXd+gvYQ5uVyP7jqiwSdF=faAKAVg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Great to see so much activity on the list, and progress chinking along.
Looking forward to seeing the GDC stuff when I get time to give it justice.

Thought I'd share a little work I'm doing to reduce controls on console
games downwards. Ultimate is making some one-switch accessible.

Little peek of this here:
http://switchgaming.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/one-switch-tekken-6.html

What it's made me realise is most needed for this kind of thing is broad
difficulty level adjustment in games. If you could really tone down the
A.I. viciousness in COD, put speed-limits on rival cars in a race, make
games more forgiving to a huge range, it would open up such a huge range of
games.

Hoping to share the method for free before too long. Just will need a Titan
One USB link-up system (much prefer this to Cronus Max) a Win 7 PC upwards
and a PS3, PS4, Xbox One (or with extra adapter) Xbox 360.

Also will work with MakeyMakey and the like for all kinds of interfaces.

Cheers,

Barrie
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From jrporter at uw.edu  Thu Apr  2 14:54:19 2015
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 11:54:19 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Message-ID: <CADWyad_EyYFN_tG3q-S=wK9BZ18GBLS7b8owe-=vywnJeS8BzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could consider,
but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have time to
push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it stuck.

Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having information
about different accessibility features clearly listed in digital
storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally agree
this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most
obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while
this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not
a trivial request.

A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads told
me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam
<http://www.enhancedsteam.com/>. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a
browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a
product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional
information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to
beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it
just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.

So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of getting
accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what I can
tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need to
build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population, but
there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get
Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on
product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be
difficult, especially if the request was made jointly
(IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).

The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it would be
a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a free
extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a boon
to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof of
concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games
could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting
behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source,
maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it
would be a win.

Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for my
rambling :/
-John




*-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
<http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
*Human Centered Design & Engineering*
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 16:51:31 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 2 Apr 2015 13:51:31 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Project_idea?=
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS14862D8916E4C79438FA78691F20@phx.gbl>


Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that done.

There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK started a change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed captioning - https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page

It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the games that have captions.

So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding additional filters.

The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as it is based on individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible' tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.

As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for the most common features, and an optional free text field for any additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on the game page itself (in the same way as what was implemented on IndieCity due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free text field just displayed on the game page.

I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc.

She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else they need to do.

So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further up the backlog.

Shall we make it happen then?

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59


Hey all,

I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could consider,
but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have time to
push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it stuck.

Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having information
about different accessibility features clearly listed in digital
storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally agree
this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most
obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while
this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not
a trivial request.

A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads told
me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam
<http://www.enhancedsteam.com/>. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a
browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a
product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional
information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to
beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it
just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.

So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of getting
accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what I can
tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need to
build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population, but
there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get
Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on
product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be
difficult, especially if the request was made jointly
(IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).

The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it would be
a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a free
extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a boon
to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof of
concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games
could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting
behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source,
maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it
would be a win.

Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for my
rambling :/
-John




*-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
<http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
*Human Centered Design & Engineering*
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_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Thu Apr  2 17:04:24 2015
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 23:04:24 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Message-ID: <trinity-9a7f99c7-5424-4b69-941f-de5e522547df-1428008664510@msvc-mesg-web006>

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From jrporter at uw.edu  Thu Apr  2 17:43:09 2015
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 14:43:09 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
In-Reply-To: <trinity-9a7f99c7-5424-4b69-941f-de5e522547df-1428008664510@msvc-mesg-web006>
References: <trinity-9a7f99c7-5424-4b69-941f-de5e522547df-1428008664510@msvc-mesg-web006>
Message-ID: <CADWyad84bFLHTpNrmWag=qVk4O_CynOpVVFgTxsPaKNvME_njA@mail.gmail.com>

Just to weigh in with my two cents...

Education is obviously *critically* important, and something we should all
be invested in. I don't think anyone can argue that it *isn't* vital that
developers have a basic understanding of game accessibility, and some
common vocabulary/models that we can all use to talk about it.

But I feel like we are talking about two very distinct issues here. There
is 1) trying to help gamers make the most informed purchasing decisions
they can based on their needs and games' limitations, and 2) working to
make those limitations go away. The latter is obviously our goal,
ultimately, but it's also something that can't happen overnight, in a week,
a month, or even a year. That's why short-term solutions (adaptive
controllers, input modifiers, etc.) can be just as important as chipping
away at the root problem. So I say yeah, this is definitely something we
should take a shot at. It shouldn't be the ONLY thing being done, but it's
a tangible step in the right direction.

In response to your comments, Ian:

For sure, I agree that direct integration is far superior in almost every
conceivable way to depending on an extension. My only reason for suggesting
that approach was that, as I said, I know this idea has come up multiple
times over the years from people with far better connections than my own.
So, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the pitch had been made to Valve at
some point without success. Working with a noncommercial group, such as
Enhanced Steam, seemed like a tenable building block. Something that we can
do right now, without requiring Valve's participation, to clearly
demonstrate that this is viable.

That being said, I'm all for skipping straight to the finish line if you
think it's doable!

Coming back around to Sandra's concerns in a way, though, a unified
understanding of accessibility is going to be critical here. Subtitles are
a fairly obvious binary (with some gray area, but you get the idea), so
it's easy enough to trust a developer to say "yes, we have them" or "no, we
don't." Beyond that, things get much trickier. What factors go into
accessibility? How many of them can be expressed as binaries or on a very
simple continuum?

In my mind, the first step for something like this will be to agree as a
community on a core list of things that we would want to see Steam present
information on. Probably by looking at existing guidelines (e.g. Game
Accessibility Guidelines, Includification, etc.), distilling a master list
of concrete *features*, and then sorting them based on criticality for
play, simplicity for developers to accurately self-report, and so on.

-John




*-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
<http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
*Human Centered Design & Engineering*

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:

> Hi, I highly recommend to provide a basic understanding of game
> accessibility first.
>
> This is my point of view:
> It is our responsibility to provide high quality and practical
> information. We have about 12 parallel existing recommendations.
>
> When we want them to avoid barriers, we have to enable them.
>
> I feel bad when I think about the situation with ubisoft and "subtitle".
> We had already lots of information, but did we support them?
> I wish for information that supports them very well.
>
>
> Regards Sandra
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB.DE Mail
> gesendet.
>
>
>
> Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>schrieb:
>>
>>  Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better
>> if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an
>> extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that
>> done.
>>
>>  There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK started
>> a change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed captioning -
>> https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page
>>
>>  It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks
>> Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a
>> filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the
>> games that have captions.
>>
>>  So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used
>> for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding
>> additional filters.
>>
>>  The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing
>> captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra
>> discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to
>> be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as it is based on
>> individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible'
>> tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.
>>
>>  As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for
>> the most common features, and an optional free text field for any
>> additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on
>> the game page itself (in the same way as what was implemented on IndieCity
>> due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering
>> also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free
>> text field just displayed on the game page.
>>
>>  I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some
>> more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness
>> (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc.
>>
>>  She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of
>> priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else
>> they need to do.
>>
>>  So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would
>> have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further
>> up the backlog.
>>
>>  Shall we make it happen then?
>>
>>  Ian
>>
>>
>>  ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>> Subject: [games_access] Project idea
>> Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59
>>
>>  Hey all,
>>
>>  I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could
>> consider, but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have
>> time to push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it
>> stuck.
>>
>>  Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having information
>> about different accessibility features clearly listed in digital
>> storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally agree
>> this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most
>> obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while
>> this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not
>> a trivial request.
>>
>>  A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads
>> told me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam
>> <http://www.enhancedsteam.com/>. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a
>> browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a
>> product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional
>> information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to
>> beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it
>> just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.
>>
>>  So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of getting
>> accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what I can
>> tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need to
>> build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population, but
>> there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get
>> Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on
>> product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be
>> difficult, especially if the request was made jointly
>> (IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).
>>
>>  The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it would
>> be a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a free
>> extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a boon
>> to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof of
>> concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games
>> could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting
>> behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source,
>> maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it
>> would be a win.
>>
>>  Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for
>> my rambling :/
>>  -John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net <http://www.jrp3.net/>
>> University of Washington,*
>> * Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>>    _______________________________________________ games_access mailing
>> list games_access at igda.org
>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG
>> website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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From thomas at westin.nu  Thu Apr  2 18:40:58 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 00:40:58 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
In-Reply-To: <CADWyad84bFLHTpNrmWag=qVk4O_CynOpVVFgTxsPaKNvME_njA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <trinity-9a7f99c7-5424-4b69-941f-de5e522547df-1428008664510@msvc-mesg-web006>
 <CADWyad84bFLHTpNrmWag=qVk4O_CynOpVVFgTxsPaKNvME_njA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <185CF5B1-2514-44B7-B46B-7C705AF73FAE@westin.nu>

Hi John

it is a great idea and I think that we should aim for the finish line but have your approach as a backup plan?

as I am working with the action list, do you want to take the lead for this?

Kind regards,
Thomas

(Sent from my mobile)

> On 2 apr 2015, at 23:43, John R. Porter <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:
> 
> Just to weigh in with my two cents...
> 
> Education is obviously critically important, and something we should all be invested in. I don't think anyone can argue that it isn't vital that developers have a basic understanding of game accessibility, and some common vocabulary/models that we can all use to talk about it.
> 
> But I feel like we are talking about two very distinct issues here. There is 1) trying to help gamers make the most informed purchasing decisions they can based on their needs and games' limitations, and 2) working to make those limitations go away. The latter is obviously our goal, ultimately, but it's also something that can't happen overnight, in a week, a month, or even a year. That's why short-term solutions (adaptive controllers, input modifiers, etc.) can be just as important as chipping away at the root problem. So I say yeah, this is definitely something we should take a shot at. It shouldn't be the ONLY thing being done, but it's a tangible step in the right direction.
> 
> In response to your comments, Ian:
> 
> For sure, I agree that direct integration is far superior in almost every conceivable way to depending on an extension. My only reason for suggesting that approach was that, as I said, I know this idea has come up multiple times over the years from people with far better connections than my own. So, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the pitch had been made to Valve at some point without success. Working with a noncommercial group, such as Enhanced Steam, seemed like a tenable building block. Something that we can do right now, without requiring Valve's participation, to clearly demonstrate that this is viable.
> 
> That being said, I'm all for skipping straight to the finish line if you think it's doable!
> 
> Coming back around to Sandra's concerns in a way, though, a unified understanding of accessibility is going to be critical here. Subtitles are a fairly obvious binary (with some gray area, but you get the idea), so it's easy enough to trust a developer to say "yes, we have them" or "no, we don't." Beyond that, things get much trickier. What factors go into accessibility? How many of them can be expressed as binaries or on a very simple continuum?
> 
> In my mind, the first step for something like this will be to agree as a community on a core list of things that we would want to see Steam present information on. Probably by looking at existing guidelines (e.g. Game Accessibility Guidelines, Includification, etc.), distilling a master list of concrete features, and then sorting them based on criticality for play, simplicity for developers to accurately self-report, and so on.
> 
> -John
> 
> 
> -- -- -- -- --
> John R. Porter III
> www.jrp3.net
> University of Washington,
> Human Centered Design & Engineering
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:
>> Hi, I highly recommend to provide a basic understanding of game accessibility first.
>> 
>> This is my point of view:
>> It is our responsibility to provide high quality and practical information. We have about 12 parallel existing recommendations. 
>> 
>> When we want them to avoid barriers, we have to enable them.
>> 
>> I feel bad when I think about the situation with ubisoft and "subtitle". We had already lots of information, but did we support them?
>> I wish for information that supports them very well.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards Sandra
>> -- 
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB.DE Mail gesendet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>schrieb:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that done. 
>>> 
>>> There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK started a change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed captioning - https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page
>>> 
>>> It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the games that have captions.
>>> 
>>> So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding additional filters.
>>> 
>>> The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as it is based on individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible' tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.
>>> 
>>> As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for the most common features, and an optional free text field for any additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on the game page itself (in the same way as what was implemented on IndieCity due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free text field just displayed on the game page.
>>> 
>>> I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc. 
>>> 
>>> She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else they need to do. 
>>> 
>>> So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further up the backlog.
>>> 
>>> Shall we make it happen then?
>>> 
>>> Ian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>>> Subject: [games_access] Project idea
>>> Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59
>>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could consider, but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have time to push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it stuck.
>>> 
>>> Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having information about different accessibility features clearly listed in digital storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally agree this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not a trivial request.
>>> 
>>> A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads told me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.
>>> 
>>> So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of getting accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what I can tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need to build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population, but there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be difficult, especially if the request was made jointly (IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).
>>> 
>>> The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it would be a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a free extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a boon to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof of concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source, maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it would be a win.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for my rambling :/
>>> -John
>>> 
>>> -- -- -- -- --
>>> John R. Porter III
>>> www.jrp3.net
>>> University of Washington,
>>> Human Centered Design & Engineering
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ games_access mailing list games_access at igda.org https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From jrporter at uw.edu  Thu Apr  2 18:49:35 2015
From: jrporter at uw.edu (John R. Porter)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:49:35 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
In-Reply-To: <185CF5B1-2514-44B7-B46B-7C705AF73FAE@westin.nu>
References: <trinity-9a7f99c7-5424-4b69-941f-de5e522547df-1428008664510@msvc-mesg-web006>
 <CADWyad84bFLHTpNrmWag=qVk4O_CynOpVVFgTxsPaKNvME_njA@mail.gmail.com>
 <185CF5B1-2514-44B7-B46B-7C705AF73FAE@westin.nu>
Message-ID: <CADWyad-Vxb=Qd9E6LH7jmgNXy8a+v5dpVyY2=B7HFv3cqBHF9w@mail.gmail.com>

I would if I could, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to devote to
another project this quarter, since I'm prepping to take my general exam,
doing an RAship, and TAing a class (I'm pretty sure that's like the
ultimate unadvisable hat trick for grad school...). I'm happy to contribute
to any effort as my schedule allows, but putting my name down for taking
the lead would likely mean no progress on it until late June.

-John




*-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
<http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
*Human Centered Design & Engineering*

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Thomas Westin <thomas at westin.nu> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> it is a great idea and I think that we should aim for the finish line but
> have your approach as a backup plan?
>
> as I am working with the action list, do you want to take the lead for
> this?
>
> Kind regards,
> Thomas
>
> (Sent from my mobile)
>
> On 2 apr 2015, at 23:43, John R. Porter <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:
>
> Just to weigh in with my two cents...
>
> Education is obviously *critically* important, and something we should
> all be invested in. I don't think anyone can argue that it *isn't* vital
> that developers have a basic understanding of game accessibility, and some
> common vocabulary/models that we can all use to talk about it.
>
> But I feel like we are talking about two very distinct issues here. There
> is 1) trying to help gamers make the most informed purchasing decisions
> they can based on their needs and games' limitations, and 2) working to
> make those limitations go away. The latter is obviously our goal,
> ultimately, but it's also something that can't happen overnight, in a week,
> a month, or even a year. That's why short-term solutions (adaptive
> controllers, input modifiers, etc.) can be just as important as chipping
> away at the root problem. So I say yeah, this is definitely something we
> should take a shot at. It shouldn't be the ONLY thing being done, but it's
> a tangible step in the right direction.
>
> In response to your comments, Ian:
>
> For sure, I agree that direct integration is far superior in almost every
> conceivable way to depending on an extension. My only reason for suggesting
> that approach was that, as I said, I know this idea has come up multiple
> times over the years from people with far better connections than my own.
> So, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the pitch had been made to Valve at
> some point without success. Working with a noncommercial group, such as
> Enhanced Steam, seemed like a tenable building block. Something that we can
> do right now, without requiring Valve's participation, to clearly
> demonstrate that this is viable.
>
> That being said, I'm all for skipping straight to the finish line if you
> think it's doable!
>
> Coming back around to Sandra's concerns in a way, though, a unified
> understanding of accessibility is going to be critical here. Subtitles are
> a fairly obvious binary (with some gray area, but you get the idea), so
> it's easy enough to trust a developer to say "yes, we have them" or "no, we
> don't." Beyond that, things get much trickier. What factors go into
> accessibility? How many of them can be expressed as binaries or on a very
> simple continuum?
>
> In my mind, the first step for something like this will be to agree as a
> community on a core list of things that we would want to see Steam present
> information on. Probably by looking at existing guidelines (e.g. Game
> Accessibility Guidelines, Includification, etc.), distilling a master list
> of concrete *features*, and then sorting them based on criticality for
> play, simplicity for developers to accurately self-report, and so on.
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> *-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
> <http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
> *Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I highly recommend to provide a basic understanding of game
>> accessibility first.
>>
>> This is my point of view:
>> It is our responsibility to provide high quality and practical
>> information. We have about 12 parallel existing recommendations.
>>
>> When we want them to avoid barriers, we have to enable them.
>>
>> I feel bad when I think about the situation with ubisoft and "subtitle".
>> We had already lots of information, but did we support them?
>> I wish for information that supports them very well.
>>
>>
>> Regards Sandra
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB.DE Mail
>> gesendet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>schrieb:
>>>
>>>  Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better
>>> if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an
>>> extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that
>>> done.
>>>
>>>  There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK
>>> started a change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed
>>> captioning -
>>> https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page
>>>
>>>  It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks
>>> Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a
>>> filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the
>>> games that have captions.
>>>
>>>  So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used
>>> for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding
>>> additional filters.
>>>
>>>  The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing
>>> captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra
>>> discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to
>>> be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as it is based on
>>> individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible'
>>> tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.
>>>
>>>  As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for
>>> the most common features, and an optional free text field for any
>>> additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on
>>> the game page itself (in the same way as what was implemented on IndieCity
>>> due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering
>>> also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free
>>> text field just displayed on the game page.
>>>
>>>  I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some
>>> more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness
>>> (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc.
>>>
>>>  She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of
>>> priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else
>>> they need to do.
>>>
>>>  So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would
>>> have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further
>>> up the backlog.
>>>
>>>  Shall we make it happen then?
>>>
>>>  Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>>> Subject: [games_access] Project idea
>>> Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59
>>>
>>>  Hey all,
>>>
>>>  I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could
>>> consider, but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have
>>> time to push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it
>>> stuck.
>>>
>>>  Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having
>>> information about different accessibility features clearly listed in
>>> digital storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally
>>> agree this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most
>>> obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while
>>> this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not
>>> a trivial request.
>>>
>>>  A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads
>>> told me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam
>>> <http://www.enhancedsteam.com/>. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a
>>> browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a
>>> product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional
>>> information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to
>>> beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it
>>> just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.
>>>
>>>  So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of
>>> getting accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what
>>> I can tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need
>>> to build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population,
>>> but there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get
>>> Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on
>>> product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be
>>> difficult, especially if the request was made jointly
>>> (IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).
>>>
>>>  The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it
>>> would be a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a
>>> free extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a
>>> boon to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof
>>> of concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games
>>> could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting
>>> behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source,
>>> maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it
>>> would be a win.
>>>
>>>  Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for
>>> my rambling :/
>>>  -John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net <http://www.jrp3.net/>
>>> University of Washington,*
>>> * Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>>>    _______________________________________________ games_access mailing
>>> list games_access at igda.org
>>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG
>>> website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:47:04 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 2 Apr 2015 16:47:04 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Project_idea?=
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS355FB228974E1F7C9E871AC91F20@phx.gbl>


100% agree about binary, criticality etc, something else to bear in mind would be practicality and usability, including more than a small core set would start to hurt usability.

I'm happy to get a quick draft done, it's an area that I've been putting time into anyway. For a group thing to work I think the proposal itself really needs to be unaffiliated, with authority coming from the backers rather than the author, but that's easy enough to do.

So how about proven methods, getting a quick change.org petition up, with supporting quotes as part of it? Not aimed at Steam specifically, more a central point of information to be passed on to any storefronts.

I've spoken with a few and there are wildly varying levels of interest and ability (ranging from 'we will implement it very soon' to 'we have internal politics that prevent it for the time being'), but if there's a quick reference with some authoritative quotes on the benefit and some decent numbers of signatories, it should be an easy way for people working on the storefronts firstly to see how valuable it, and secondly help them to sell the idea internally to their colleagues.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 23:49


I would if I could, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to devote to
another project this quarter, since I'm prepping to take my general exam,
doing an RAship, and TAing a class (I'm pretty sure that's like the
ultimate unadvisable hat trick for grad school...). I'm happy to contribute
to any effort as my schedule allows, but putting my name down for taking
the lead would likely mean no progress on it until late June.

-John




*-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
<http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
*Human Centered Design & Engineering*

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Thomas Westin <thomas at westin.nu> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> it is a great idea and I think that we should aim for the finish line but
> have your approach as a backup plan?
>
> as I am working with the action list, do you want to take the lead for
> this?
>
> Kind regards,
> Thomas
>
> (Sent from my mobile)
>
> On 2 apr 2015, at 23:43, John R. Porter <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:
>
> Just to weigh in with my two cents...
>
> Education is obviously *critically* important, and something we should
> all be invested in. I don't think anyone can argue that it *isn't* vital
> that developers have a basic understanding of game accessibility, and some
> common vocabulary/models that we can all use to talk about it.
>
> But I feel like we are talking about two very distinct issues here. There
> is 1) trying to help gamers make the most informed purchasing decisions
> they can based on their needs and games' limitations, and 2) working to
> make those limitations go away. The latter is obviously our goal,
> ultimately, but it's also something that can't happen overnight, in a week,
> a month, or even a year. That's why short-term solutions (adaptive
> controllers, input modifiers, etc.) can be just as important as chipping
> away at the root problem. So I say yeah, this is definitely something we
> should take a shot at. It shouldn't be the ONLY thing being done, but it's
> a tangible step in the right direction.
>
> In response to your comments, Ian:
>
> For sure, I agree that direct integration is far superior in almost every
> conceivable way to depending on an extension. My only reason for suggesting
> that approach was that, as I said, I know this idea has come up multiple
> times over the years from people with far better connections than my own.
> So, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the pitch had been made to Valve at
> some point without success. Working with a noncommercial group, such as
> Enhanced Steam, seemed like a tenable building block. Something that we can
> do right now, without requiring Valve's participation, to clearly
> demonstrate that this is viable.
>
> That being said, I'm all for skipping straight to the finish line if you
> think it's doable!
>
> Coming back around to Sandra's concerns in a way, though, a unified
> understanding of accessibility is going to be critical here. Subtitles are
> a fairly obvious binary (with some gray area, but you get the idea), so
> it's easy enough to trust a developer to say "yes, we have them" or "no, we
> don't." Beyond that, things get much trickier. What factors go into
> accessibility? How many of them can be expressed as binaries or on a very
> simple continuum?
>
> In my mind, the first step for something like this will be to agree as a
> community on a core list of things that we would want to see Steam present
> information on. Probably by looking at existing guidelines (e.g. Game
> Accessibility Guidelines, Includification, etc.), distilling a master list
> of concrete *features*, and then sorting them based on criticality for
> play, simplicity for developers to accurately self-report, and so on.
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> *-- -- -- -- --John R. Porter IIIwww.jrp3.net
> <http://www.jrp3.net/>University of Washington,*
> *Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Sandra Uhling <sandra_uhling at web.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I highly recommend to provide a basic understanding of game
>> accessibility first.
>>
>> This is my point of view:
>> It is our responsibility to provide high quality and practical
>> information. We have about 12 parallel existing recommendations.
>>
>> When we want them to avoid barriers, we have to enable them.
>>
>> I feel bad when I think about the situation with ubisoft and "subtitle".
>> We had already lots of information, but did we support them?
>> I wish for information that supports them very well.
>>
>>
>> Regards Sandra
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB.DE Mail
>> gesendet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>schrieb:
>>>
>>>  Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better
>>> if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an
>>> extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that
>>> done.
>>>
>>>  There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK
>>> started a change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed
>>> captioning -
>>> https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page
>>>
>>>  It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks
>>> Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a
>>> filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the
>>> games that have captions.
>>>
>>>  So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used
>>> for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding
>>> additional filters.
>>>
>>>  The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing
>>> captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra
>>> discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to
>>> be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as it is based on
>>> individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible'
>>> tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.
>>>
>>>  As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for
>>> the most common features, and an optional free text field for any
>>> additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on
>>> the game page itself (in the same way as what was implemented on IndieCity
>>> due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering
>>> also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free
>>> text field just displayed on the game page.
>>>
>>>  I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some
>>> more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness
>>> (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc.
>>>
>>>  She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of
>>> priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else
>>> they need to do.
>>>
>>>  So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would
>>> have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further
>>> up the backlog.
>>>
>>>  Shall we make it happen then?
>>>
>>>  Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>>> Subject: [games_access] Project idea
>>> Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59
>>>
>>>  Hey all,
>>>
>>>  I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could
>>> consider, but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have
>>> time to push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it
>>> stuck.
>>>
>>>  Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having
>>> information about different accessibility features clearly listed in
>>> digital storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally
>>> agree this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant hurdles. Most
>>> obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while
>>> this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not
>>> a trivial request.
>>>
>>>  A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads
>>> told me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam
>>> <http://www.enhancedsteam.com/>. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a
>>> browser extension that automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a
>>> product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional
>>> information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to
>>> beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally, it
>>> just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet.
>>>
>>>  So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of
>>> getting accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what
>>> I can tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need
>>> to build the data source. We'd likely need to crowdsource it's population,
>>> but there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get
>>> Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on
>>> product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be
>>> difficult, especially if the request was made jointly
>>> (IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).
>>>
>>>  The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it
>>> would be a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a
>>> free extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a
>>> boon to a lot of people. And second, I think it could be a powerful proof
>>> of concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games
>>> could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting
>>> behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source,
>>> maybe they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it
>>> would be a win.
>>>
>>>  Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for
>>> my rambling :/
>>>  -John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- -- -- -- -- John R. Porter III www.jrp3.net <http://www.jrp3.net/>
>>> University of Washington,*
>>> * Human Centered Design & Engineering*
>>>    _______________________________________________ games_access mailing
>>> list games_access at igda.org
>>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG
>>> website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From thomas at westin.nu  Sat Apr  4 03:19:16 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 09:19:16 +0200
Subject: [games_access] GA-SIG Action Plan Survey
In-Reply-To: <76A28ADC-0B10-4A33-BDCE-C75549CD8C0C@westin.nu>
References: <76A28ADC-0B10-4A33-BDCE-C75549CD8C0C@westin.nu>
Message-ID: <BEDA7683-E194-447A-80FB-86C121292787@westin.nu>

Hi all,

So far 10 people have responded to the survey, to either lead or participate in actions which is great.

In case you have not filled in the survey, this is a gentle reminder to please do so before Wednesday April 8. Aftter thatI I will compile the results.

Survey link:
https://docs.google.com/a/dsv.su.se/forms/d/1zY4F874AxRq0Zn53tyeDF6UcOAQ7RSZ0c53goEvhBMo/viewform 

Best regards,
Thomas

27Mar 2015 kl. 17:57 skrev Thomas Westin <thomas at westin.nu>:

> Hi all,
> 
> Please fill in the survey below. It is a follow-on from the GDC2015 panel and round table, where we talked about advocacy activities. 
> 
> We would like to facilitate collaboration on these, so as a first step we would like to gauge interest in how many people would be interested in leading and in taking part. 
> 
> We will use the results to publish an action plan, and inform what sort of collaboration tools we should use.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/a/dsv.su.se/forms/d/1zY4F874AxRq0Zn53tyeDF6UcOAQ7RSZ0c53goEvhBMo/viewform 
> 
> Have a great weekend!
> 
> Best regards,
> Thomas



From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 08:35:40 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 13:35:40 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
In-Reply-To: <SNT407-EAS355FB228974E1F7C9E871AC91F20@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT407-EAS355FB228974E1F7C9E871AC91F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB130-W147732AACCA2FB22A6BC6C91F00@phx.gbl>

Attached are two drafts: one of an example implementation, and another of a change.org page. As per previous mail the change.org page is under an anonymous unaffiliated account, allowing the request itself to be presented as a single unified call from all people/organisations quoted and all additional signatories.
Any thoughts anyone? On copy and content obviously, but also in particular the idea of using change.org, and thoughts on a sensible core (6 or less) set of core accessibility considerations, which would need to be slightly different for mobile/desktop/console.
I'm 100% with John's thoughts on it.. should be things that are commonly considered, benefit a decent number of people, are hard to misinterpret, and are a simple yes/no to whether they are present (as opposed to something unquantifiable, such as 'easy'). There are a examples of considerations shown in the attachments.

Ian
To: games_access at igda.org
From: i_h at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 16:47:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [games_access] Project idea







100% agree about binary, criticality etc, something else to bear in mind would be practicality and usability, including more than a small core set would start to hurt usability.



I'm happy to get a quick draft done, it's an area that I've been putting time into anyway. For a group thing to work I think the proposal itself really needs to be unaffiliated, with authority coming from the backers rather than the author, but that's
 easy enough to do.



So how about proven methods, getting a quick change.org petition up, with supporting quotes as part of it? Not aimed at Steam specifically, more a central point of information to be passed on to any storefronts. 



I've spoken with a few and there are wildly varying levels of interest and ability (ranging from 'we will implement it very soon' to 'we have internal politics that prevent it for the time being'), but if there's a quick reference with some authoritative
 quotes on the benefit and some decent numbers of signatories, it should be an easy way for people working on the storefronts firstly to see how valuable it, and secondly help them to sell the idea internally to their colleagues.



Ian








----- Reply message -----

From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>

To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>

Subject: [games_access] Project idea

Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 23:49




I would if I could, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to devote to another project this quarter, since I'm prepping to take my general exam, doing an RAship, and TAing a class (I'm pretty sure that's like the ultimate unadvisable hat trick
 for grad school...). I'm happy to contribute to any effort as my schedule allows, but putting my name down for taking the lead would likely mean no progress on it until late June.



-John






-- -- -- -- --

John R. Porter III

www.jrp3.net

University of Washington,

Human Centered Design & Engineering





On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Thomas Westin 
<thomas at westin.nu> wrote:



Hi John



it is a great idea and I think that we should aim for the finish line but have your approach as a backup plan?



as I am working with the action list, do you want to take the lead for this?



Kind regards,


Thomas



(Sent from my mobile)




On 2 apr 2015, at 23:43, John R. Porter <jrporter at uw.edu> wrote:






Just to weigh in with my two cents...



Education is obviously critically important, and something we should all be invested in. I don't think anyone can argue that it
isn't vital that developers have a basic understanding of game accessibility, and some common vocabulary/models that we can all use to talk about it.



But I feel like we are talking about two very distinct issues here. There is 1) trying to help gamers make the most informed purchasing decisions they can based on their needs and games' limitations, and 2) working to make those limitations go away. The
 latter is obviously our goal, ultimately, but it's also something that can't happen overnight, in a week, a month, or even a year. That's why short-term solutions (adaptive controllers, input modifiers, etc.) can be just as important as chipping away at the
 root problem. So I say yeah, this is definitely something we should take a shot at. It shouldn't be the ONLY thing being done, but it's a tangible step in the right direction.



In response to your comments, Ian:



For sure, I agree that direct integration is far superior in almost every conceivable way to depending on an extension. My only reason for suggesting that approach was that, as I said, I know this idea has come up multiple times over the years from people
 with far better connections than my own. So, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the pitch had been made to Valve at some point without success. Working with a noncommercial group, such as Enhanced Steam, seemed like a tenable building block. Something that we
 can do right now, without requiring Valve's participation, to clearly demonstrate that this is viable.



That being said, I'm all for skipping straight to the finish line if you think it's doable!



Coming back around to Sandra's concerns in a way, though, a unified understanding of accessibility is going to be critical here. Subtitles are a fairly obvious binary (with some gray area, but you get the idea), so it's easy enough to trust a developer
 to say "yes, we have them" or "no, we don't." Beyond that, things get much trickier. What factors go into accessibility? How many of them can be expressed as binaries or on a very simple continuum?



In my mind, the first step for something like this will be to agree as a community on a core list of things that we would want to see Steam present information on. Probably by looking at existing guidelines (e.g. Game Accessibility Guidelines, Includification,
 etc.), distilling a master list of concrete features, and then sorting them based on criticality for play, simplicity for developers to accurately self-report, and so on.



-John






-- -- -- -- --

John R. Porter III

www.jrp3.net

University of Washington,

Human Centered Design & Engineering





On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Sandra Uhling 
<sandra_uhling at web.de> wrote:


Hi, I highly recommend to provide a basic understanding of game accessibility first.



This is my point of view:

It is our responsibility to provide high quality and practical information. We have about 12 parallel existing recommendations.




When we want them to avoid barriers, we have to enable them.



I feel bad when I think about the situation with ubisoft and "subtitle". We had already lots of information, but did we support them?

I wish for information that supports them very well.





Regards Sandra

-- 

Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit 
WEB.DE Mail gesendet.







Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>schrieb:




Absolutely agree about the value, though obviously it would be better if it could be implemented into Steam itself rather than needing an extension.... And I actually think it would be easy enough to get that done. 




There's already a precedent set, in 2013 a deaf woman in the UK started a 
change.org petition for Steam to add information on closed captioning - https://www.change.org/p/steam-please-list-subtitle-options-on-the-store-page




It got some decent coverage, e.g MCV, and within a couple of weeks Steam went ahead and added it. Not just as information though, but as a filter, so on Steam's game listings you can now choose to display only the games that have captions.




So the functionality is all there actually there already (and is used for other info outside of accessibility too), it's just a case of adding additional filters.




The data wouldn't need to be crowdsourced either, the existing captioning box is filled out by developers. The lure of extra discoverability and fear of low ratings should be enough to encourage it to be filled in, and filled in accurately. So long as
 it is based on individual features, unlike the Windows store's single 'accessible' tickbox, which isn't helpful info and is regularly misused.




As I see it at least, the ideal setup would be a set of tick boxes for the most common features, and an optional free text field for any additional considerations. The common features displayed with symbols on the game page itself (in the same way as what
 was implemented on IndieCity due to Lynsey's work), and also linked to allow filtering, the glittering also possible from the game listing pages, and the contents of the free text field just displayed on the game page.




I found the right person there to talk to at Steam about adding some more in for other common considerations such as colourblind friendliness (inc. CBF by default, not just modes), remapping, etc. 




She seemed pretty interested but ultimately it'll be a question of priorities, how far up the backlog it comes compared to everything else they need to do. 




So again I completely agree, a joint request from a few bodies would have far more weight than just me suggesting it, and get it shunted further up the backlog.




Shall we make it happen then? 



Ian 





----- Reply message -----

From: "John R. Porter" <jrporter at uw.edu>

To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>

Subject: [games_access] Project idea

Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2015 19:59 




Hey all,



I had an interesting thought about a possible project we could consider, but it's not something I (at least for the next few months) have time to push on personally, so I figured I'd toss it out here and see if it stuck.




Over the years, the suggestion repeatedly pops up of having information about different accessibility features clearly listed in digital storefronts ? in particular, Steam. Everyone seems to universally agree this is an awesome idea, but one that has significant
 hurdles. Most obviously, it's dependent on convincing Valve to actually do it. And while this isn't impossible, the fact that it hasn't happened yet means it's not a trivial request.




A couple days ago, in a research seminar I run, one of the undergrads told me about an awesome tool he uses called Enhanced Steam. For those unfamiliar with it, it is a browser extension that
 automatically kicks in whenever you are viewing a product in the Steam store, augmenting the page by adding additional information. Right now, it's things like historical price trends, time to beat, third-party widescreen certifications, and so on. But generally,
 it just aggregates information from elsewhere on the Internet. 



So my thinking is this: why don't we explore the possibility of getting accessibility information integrated into Enhanced Steam? From what I can tell, that would essentially require two steps. First, we would need to build the data source. We'd likely
 need to crowdsource it's population, but there are definitely ways to pull it off. Second, we would need to get Enhanced Steam to buy in and add accessibility information as a pane on product pages. If the data is there, I also don't think this would be difficult,
 especially if the request was made jointly (IGDA+AbleGamers+SpecialEffect+etc.).




The way I see it, the benefit of this would be twofold. First, it would be a tool of immediate utility. If all you need to do is install a free extension to get access to this information, then it's going to be a boon to a lot of people. And second, I
 think it could be a powerful proof of concept. Even just getting it working for a limited selection of games could show Valve in a very tangible way that the idea is worth getting behind. Maybe they want to continue pulling from a community data source, maybe
 they decide to formalize it internally. Who knows. But either way, it would be a win.




Thoughts? I'm running purely on caffeine the moment, so apologies for my rambling :/

-John




-- -- -- -- --

John R. Porter III

www.jrp3.net

University of Washington,

Human Centered Design & Engineering 








_______________________________________________ games_access mailing list 
games_access at igda.org https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org





_______________________________________________

games_access mailing list

games_access at igda.org

https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org











_______________________________________________

games_access mailing list

games_access at igda.org

https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

The main SIG website page is 
http://igda-gasig.org








_______________________________________________

games_access mailing list

games_access at igda.org

https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org












_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org 		 	   		  
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From andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 09:35:44 2015
From: andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com (Andreas Lopez)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 09:35:44 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Message-ID: <CAL+_mRyi-xaNqn_yNaoOzUt5hZ2cRskLa_pDOQpD8qyuqr70Vw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Ian,

I believe change.org is one of the best platforms to use, given how
frequent it is used and for all sorts of activities. Be it political or
also entertainment related.

But it seems to send attachments along in the e-mail is not working, given
that they are not shown here. I suggest you to upload them to Google Docs
or so and then place the link here. Any other place would be also good, I
am just thinking of Google Docs given that you could enable the comment
function there, so people could directly make remarks on the paper :)

Sincerely,

Andreas Lopez
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 10:20:06 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 4 Apr 2015 07:20:06 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Project_idea?=
Message-ID: <COL403-EAS245A02D965D34C3FA155A9391F00@phx.gbl>


Ah ok, here you go:

http://s24.postimg.org/r4071qs9x/change_org_20150404_15171051.png

http://s17.postimg.org/z31pjf5wf/implementation_20150404_151702532.png

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Andreas Lopez" <andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Project idea
Date: Sat, Apr 4, 2015 14:35


Hey Ian,

I believe change.org is one of the best platforms to use, given how
frequent it is used and for all sorts of activities. Be it political or
also entertainment related.

But it seems to send attachments along in the e-mail is not working, given
that they are not shown here. I suggest you to upload them to Google Docs
or so and then place the link here. Any other place would be also good, I
am just thinking of Google Docs given that you could enable the comment
function there, so people could directly make remarks on the paper :)

Sincerely,

Andreas Lopez
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_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From eleanor at 7128.com  Sat Apr 11 08:36:42 2015
From: eleanor at 7128.com (Eleanor)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:36:42 -0400
Subject: [games_access] GA-SIG Action Plan
Message-ID: <5529155A.7050004@7128.com>

Looking Good, Thomas.  Lots of opportunities to improve awareness of and 
the need for accessibility accommodations in the game development community.

Eleanor Robinson
7-128 Software


From chad at anacronist.com  Sat Apr 11 17:41:03 2015
From: chad at anacronist.com (Chad Philip Johnson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:41:03 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2407.1427122916.6214.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.2407.1427122916.6214.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <1428788463.2399.64.camel@localhost>

Little late in replying to this one, but I think that the following
idea is quite powerful:  make considerations for X, Y and Z in a way
that will not only create a larger audience, but also improve the
overall design.  This could be applied to anything, but in the case of
game accessibility, developers should construct their games so that any
efforts made toward accommodating disabled gamers also somehow work to
enhance the experience for their core audience.

For example, if I'm going to design a luxury car, it would be really
good to put in an adjustable seat.  This will allow people to make
changes to the seat's position according to their personal preferences
during a drive--e.g. a person who has spent four hours on the freeway
might turn on cruise control and slide the seat back much farther than
he would while taking a trip to the grocery store.  It has another
benefit in that it allows people of varying heights to be able to fit
into and drive the car (although for them it might lose some amount of
its luxury appeal).  The point is that the feature that was added to
create an improved experience for someone of average height is also
what allows taller and shorter people to be able to drive the car at
all.

This contrasts what Ian mentioned earlier about hotels: shower
handrails are provided specifically for guests with disabilities, but
arguments can be made about them benefiting other guests as well.  In
one case, the experience for the core audience is provided first and
then the accommodation is designed around it.  In the other case, the
accommodation is provided first and then the experience for the core
audience is designed around it.

I'm new here, but practicality and a grade school business sense
suggests to me that the SIG will be spending more of its time working
to convince developers to design proper accommodations after the core
experience has been developed and not the other way around.  This means
that companies will need to be shown how careful implementation of
accommodations will also work to improve the core experience before
most of them will adopt the idea.

Fortunately, when this is done enough times, a particular accommodation
will eventually become a part of standard game development procedures. 
This seems to be the end goal.

-- 
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software




> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:11:37 +0000 From: Ian Hamilton
> <i_h at hotmail.com> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
> feedback Message-ID: <DUB130-W54C55DCD59142C679A3B5A910D0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> In the wider world it means option 2 - "The concept focuses on enabling
> access for people with disabilities, or special needs, or enabling
> access through the use of assistive technology; however, research and
> development in accessibility brings benefits to everyone."
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility). E.g. an accessible hotel
> room contains features such as a handrail in the shower and lots of
> floorspace, universal design features that are useful for lots of
> guests but are included solely because of disability. A website's
> accessibility policy refers only to the commitments and considerations
> are made for users with disabilities. And you certainly aren't allowed
> to park in an accessible parking spot just because you're an
> inexperienced driver or have an old car. We're only a small part of a
> much larger cross-industry effort, so we should really be consistent
> unless there's a compelling reason not to be.




From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Apr 11 17:51:37 2015
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra_Uhling)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 23:51:37 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <1428788463.2399.64.camel@localhost>
References: <mailman.2407.1427122916.6214.games_access@igda.org>
 <1428788463.2399.64.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <000001d074a1$b0e70070$12b50150$@de>

Hi Chad,

I think in practise mainstream games will be designed for core audience
and Game Accessibility Features will be added.

Games for education and games special designed for gamers with a disability
should be designed accessible as possible.

Regards,
Sandra

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Chad
Philip Johnson
Gesendet: Samstag, 11. April 2015 23:41
An: games_access at igda.org
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback

Little late in replying to this one, but I think that the following idea is
quite powerful:  make considerations for X, Y and Z in a way that will not
only create a larger audience, but also improve the overall design.  This
could be applied to anything, but in the case of game accessibility,
developers should construct their games so that any efforts made toward
accommodating disabled gamers also somehow work to enhance the experience
for their core audience.

For example, if I'm going to design a luxury car, it would be really good to
put in an adjustable seat.  This will allow people to make changes to the
seat's position according to their personal preferences during a drive--e.g.
a person who has spent four hours on the freeway might turn on cruise
control and slide the seat back much farther than he would while taking a
trip to the grocery store.  It has another benefit in that it allows people
of varying heights to be able to fit into and drive the car (although for
them it might lose some amount of its luxury appeal).  The point is that the
feature that was added to create an improved experience for someone of
average height is also what allows taller and shorter people to be able to
drive the car at all.

This contrasts what Ian mentioned earlier about hotels: shower handrails are
provided specifically for guests with disabilities, but arguments can be
made about them benefiting other guests as well.  In one case, the
experience for the core audience is provided first and then the
accommodation is designed around it.  In the other case, the accommodation
is provided first and then the experience for the core audience is designed
around it.

I'm new here, but practicality and a grade school business sense suggests to
me that the SIG will be spending more of its time working to convince
developers to design proper accommodations after the core experience has
been developed and not the other way around.  This means that companies will
need to be shown how careful implementation of accommodations will also work
to improve the core experience before most of them will adopt the idea.

Fortunately, when this is done enough times, a particular accommodation will
eventually become a part of standard game development procedures. 
This seems to be the end goal.

--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software




> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:11:37 +0000 From: Ian Hamilton
> <i_h at hotmail.com> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
> feedback Message-ID: <DUB130-W54C55DCD59142C679A3B5A910D0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> In the wider world it means option 2 - "The concept focuses on enabling
> access for people with disabilities, or special needs, or enabling
> access through the use of assistive technology; however, research and
> development in accessibility brings benefits to everyone."
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility). E.g. an accessible hotel
> room contains features such as a handrail in the shower and lots of
> floorspace, universal design features that are useful for lots of
> guests but are included solely because of disability. A website's
> accessibility policy refers only to the commitments and considerations
> are made for users with disabilities. And you certainly aren't allowed
> to park in an accessible parking spot just because you're an
> inexperienced driver or have an old car. We're only a small part of a
> much larger cross-industry effort, so we should really be consistent
> unless there's a compelling reason not to be.


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From i_h at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 12 05:00:20 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:00:20 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB130-W17D758C9EEC28F06E6D5B691F80@phx.gbl>

Sorry, I forgot about the attachment blocker again!
So two nice examples from the past few days -http://s14.postimg.org/8n1z77xv5/considerearly.jpg

But then of course there are plenty of examples of retrofitting too, eg -www.polygon.com/2015/3/19/8260227/destinys-update-colorblind-support-audio-control
The difference in cost for the two approaches is pretty obvious, but still just anecdotal. It might be nice to get some exact figures together, i.e. take a core set of accessibility features and get some exact figures on each for a few different scales of game, comparing exactly how much each would cost to implement if first considered at game design document stage stage Vs first considered after launch. 
If real $ amounts are involved it would need to be done anonymously, particularly if larger studios are involved, but it would still be a pretty powerful thing to be able to share.
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback
> From: i_h at hotmail.com
> 
> 
> It's a mix, there's still loads of retrofitting that goes on, but as awareness increases situations like the attached tweet are becoming more common. I often see developers discussing or asking for advice on accessibility pretty early on, over colourblindess and remapping in particular.
> 
> Another really powerful driver is when accessibility is introduced in development funding applications (e.g. Film Victoria), meaning applicants are required to at least think about it before they have properly started production.
> 
> The disability angle generally seems to be a bigger driver than the improving experience angle, with developers who are interested just wanting to do the right thing and avoid unnecessarily excluding people. That it's also good game design seems more of a nice surprise rather than the reason for doing it.
> 
> So for me at least it seems primarily about explaining the disability angle, then secondly supporting the disability angle by mentioning that it is good general design practice. As a reassurance against the 'it'll dilute my mechanic' misconception, and as a way of explaining that it isn't anything scary, through showing how much good stuff they're already inadvertently doing in their day to day work.
> 
> Ian
> 
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
> To: <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
> Date: Sat, Apr 11, 2015 22:47
> 
> 
> Little late in replying to this one, but I think that the following
> idea is quite powerful:  make considerations for X, Y and Z in a way
> that will not only create a larger audience, but also improve the
> overall design.  This could be applied to anything, but in the case of
> game accessibility, developers should construct their games so that any
> efforts made toward accommodating disabled gamers also somehow work to
> enhance the experience for their core audience.
> 
> For example, if I'm going to design a luxury car, it would be really
> good to put in an adjustable seat.  This will allow people to make
> changes to the seat's position according to their personal preferences
> during a drive--e.g. a person who has spent four hours on the freeway
> might turn on cruise control and slide the seat back much farther than
> he would while taking a trip to the grocery store.  It has another
> benefit in that it allows people of varying heights to be able to fit
> into and drive the car (although for them it might lose some amount of
> its luxury appeal).  The point is that the feature that was added to
> create an improved experience for someone of average height is also
> what allows taller and shorter people to be able to drive the car at
> all.
> 
> This contrasts what Ian mentioned earlier about hotels: shower
> handrails are provided specifically for guests with disabilities, but
> arguments can be made about them benefiting other guests as well.  In
> one case, the experience for the core audience is provided first and
> then the accommodation is designed around it.  In the other case, the
> accommodation is provided first and then the experience for the core
> audience is designed around it.
> 
> I'm new here, but practicality and a grade school business sense
> suggests to me that the SIG will be spending more of its time working
> to convince developers to design proper accommodations after the core
> experience has been developed and not the other way around.  This means
> that companies will need to be shown how careful implementation of
> accommodations will also work to improve the core experience before
> most of them will adopt the idea.
> 
> Fortunately, when this is done enough times, a particular accommodation
> will eventually become a part of standard game development procedures.
> This seems to be the end goal.
> 
> --
> Chad Philip Johnson
> Anacronist Software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:11:37 +0000 From: Ian Hamilton
> > <i_h at hotmail.com> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> > <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
> > feedback Message-ID: <DUB130-W54C55DCD59142C679A3B5A910D0 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > In the wider world it means option 2 - "The concept focuses on enabling
> > access for people with disabilities, or special needs, or enabling
> > access through the use of assistive technology; however, research and
> > development in accessibility brings benefits to everyone."
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility). E.g. an accessible hotel
> > room contains features such as a handrail in the shower and lots of
> > floorspace, universal design features that are useful for lots of
> > guests but are included solely because of disability. A website's
> > accessibility policy refers only to the commitments and considerations
> > are made for users with disabilities. And you certainly aren't allowed
> > to park in an accessible parking spot just because you're an
> > inexperienced driver or have an old car. We're only a small part of a
> > much larger cross-industry effort, so we should really be consistent
> > unless there's a compelling reason not to be.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
 		 	   		  
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 11 20:13:08 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 11 Apr 2015 17:13:08 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Looking_for_feedback?=
Message-ID: <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80@phx.gbl>


It's a mix, there's still loads of retrofitting that goes on, but as awareness increases situations like the attached tweet are becoming more common. I often see developers discussing or asking for advice on accessibility pretty early on, over colourblindess and remapping in particular.

Another really powerful driver is when accessibility is introduced in development funding applications (e.g. Film Victoria), meaning applicants are required to at least think about it before they have properly started production.

The disability angle generally seems to be a bigger driver than the improving experience angle, with developers who are interested just wanting to do the right thing and avoid unnecessarily excluding people. That it's also good game design seems more of a nice surprise rather than the reason for doing it.

So for me at least it seems primarily about explaining the disability angle, then secondly supporting the disability angle by mentioning that it is good general design practice. As a reassurance against the 'it'll dilute my mechanic' misconception, and as a way of explaining that it isn't anything scary, through showing how much good stuff they're already inadvertently doing in their day to day work.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
Date: Sat, Apr 11, 2015 22:47


Little late in replying to this one, but I think that the following
idea is quite powerful:  make considerations for X, Y and Z in a way
that will not only create a larger audience, but also improve the
overall design.  This could be applied to anything, but in the case of
game accessibility, developers should construct their games so that any
efforts made toward accommodating disabled gamers also somehow work to
enhance the experience for their core audience.

For example, if I'm going to design a luxury car, it would be really
good to put in an adjustable seat.  This will allow people to make
changes to the seat's position according to their personal preferences
during a drive--e.g. a person who has spent four hours on the freeway
might turn on cruise control and slide the seat back much farther than
he would while taking a trip to the grocery store.  It has another
benefit in that it allows people of varying heights to be able to fit
into and drive the car (although for them it might lose some amount of
its luxury appeal).  The point is that the feature that was added to
create an improved experience for someone of average height is also
what allows taller and shorter people to be able to drive the car at
all.

This contrasts what Ian mentioned earlier about hotels: shower
handrails are provided specifically for guests with disabilities, but
arguments can be made about them benefiting other guests as well.  In
one case, the experience for the core audience is provided first and
then the accommodation is designed around it.  In the other case, the
accommodation is provided first and then the experience for the core
audience is designed around it.

I'm new here, but practicality and a grade school business sense
suggests to me that the SIG will be spending more of its time working
to convince developers to design proper accommodations after the core
experience has been developed and not the other way around.  This means
that companies will need to be shown how careful implementation of
accommodations will also work to improve the core experience before
most of them will adopt the idea.

Fortunately, when this is done enough times, a particular accommodation
will eventually become a part of standard game development procedures.
This seems to be the end goal.

--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software




> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:11:37 +0000 From: Ian Hamilton
> <i_h at hotmail.com> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
> feedback Message-ID: <DUB130-W54C55DCD59142C679A3B5A910D0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In the wider world it means option 2 - "The concept focuses on enabling
> access for people with disabilities, or special needs, or enabling
> access through the use of assistive technology; however, research and
> development in accessibility brings benefits to everyone."
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility). E.g. an accessible hotel
> room contains features such as a handrail in the shower and lots of
> floorspace, universal design features that are useful for lots of
> guests but are included solely because of disability. A website's
> accessibility policy refers only to the commitments and considerations
> are made for users with disabilities. And you certainly aren't allowed
> to park in an accessible parking spot just because you're an
> inexperienced driver or have an old car. We're only a small part of a
> much larger cross-industry effort, so we should really be consistent
> unless there's a compelling reason not to be.


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 12 13:00:32 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:00:32 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Key/button remapping in Unity3D
Message-ID: <DUB130-W44D9FCB12666C1BB3065B491F80@phx.gbl>

InControl input manager has now added full runtime remapping:
http://www.gallantgames.com/pages/incontrol-binding-actions-to-controls
Ian 		 	   		  
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From tvoelker at igda-gasig.org  Sun Apr 12 13:04:49 2015
From: tvoelker at igda-gasig.org (Tara Voelker)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:04:49 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Key/button remapping in Unity3D
In-Reply-To: <DUB130-W44D9FCB12666C1BB3065B491F80@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB130-W44D9FCB12666C1BB3065B491F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0D4B6D06-F038-4F82-B5B6-A2F283B419E5@igda-gasig.org>

This is great! Now only is Unity would include something like this out of the box. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 12, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> InControl input manager has now added full runtime remapping:
> 
> http://www.gallantgames.com/pages/incontrol-binding-actions-to-controls
> 
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
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From thomas at westin.nu  Tue Apr 14 17:31:41 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:31:41 +0200
Subject: [games_access] GA-SIG Action Plan!
Message-ID: <05541A7A-EE7B-475F-A334-5BB7F68F76C3@westin.nu>

Hi all,

First, I?m really excited with the response of the GA-SIG action plan survey, so thanks to all volunteers! I think we now have a solid set of actions that have great potential. So lets get started! 

I suggest that each lead: 
1. contacts their action group and set up the way they prefer to work
2. continiously updates the column ?Latest progress? with a line or two (very brief). This way we can all easily see the progress of all actions in one place. 
3. participates in quarterly online chat meetings to share results and discuss with all other leads and SIG chairs - all other participants also welcome of course!

Most of the actions require dedication over a longer time, while a few are more short-term projects. As you can see there are some actions that have participants but no lead. To have continuity over time and ensuring different perspectives, each action must have at least one lead and one other participant. At the moment there are also some actions with just one lead and no participants, but hopefully this will be resolved soon, or be merged with another closely related action.

Actions which dont?t have a lead have been moved to a wish-list at the bottom, until someone steps up for taking the lead. Short-term projects should also define a due date. E.g. the GDC 2016 action should start today and end before March 2016.

If you have suggestions for the action plan, please add a comment directly in the Google form of the action list. Hopefully I got all names and actions right as the compilation was done a bit manually; if I have made a mistake just let me know, please.

The action plan? OK, here it is
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vvDqoJkpcTiDZ3iyJpEk3eiQO1L62Ffd5DV1cxZo4Ns/edit?usp=sharing <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vvDqoJkpcTiDZ3iyJpEk3eiQO1L62Ffd5DV1cxZo4Ns/edit?usp=sharing>

Best regards,
Thomas
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From rdghayden at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 17:51:18 2015
From: rdghayden at gmail.com (Richard David Gordon Hayden)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:51:18 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Key/button remapping in Unity3D
In-Reply-To: <0D4B6D06-F038-4F82-B5B6-A2F283B419E5@igda-gasig.org>
References: <DUB130-W44D9FCB12666C1BB3065B491F80@phx.gbl>
 <0D4B6D06-F038-4F82-B5B6-A2F283B419E5@igda-gasig.org>
Message-ID: <CA+bmSoGZ=LwBfi0=+XN1MdpEQ67PmDzS4qMMD-5RXyHhRHrOPA@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome! My www.pulsekeyboard.com could use this!

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Tara Voelker <tvoelker at igda-gasig.org>
wrote:

> This is great! Now only is Unity would include something like this out of
> the box.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 12, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> InControl input manager has now added full runtime remapping:
>
> http://www.gallantgames.com/pages/incontrol-binding-actions-to-controls
>
> Ian
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
>
>
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From chad at anacronist.com  Wed Apr 15 23:36:54 2015
From: chad at anacronist.com (Chad Philip Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:36:54 -0700
Subject: [games_access]  Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1894.1428856966.12295.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.1894.1428856966.12295.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <1429155414.3336.28.camel@localhost>

Regarding the "disability angle", yes... that will always be there and
will continue to be effective.  I'm just thinking that we would be able
to get some developers on board sooner and bring greater visibility to
game accessibility if the case can be made that the core audience will
also benefit from these additional design considerations.  After all,
this works to increase the game's sales potential.

Including disabled gamers also boosts sales potential, but I'm inclined
to believe that in most cases it would be looked at as being higher risk
and with lower potential for rewards.

-- 
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software


> Date: 11 Apr 2015 17:13:08 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> It's a mix, there's still loads of retrofitting that goes on, but as
> awareness increases situations like the attached tweet are becoming
> more common. I often see developers discussing or asking for advice on
> accessibility pretty early on, over colourblindess and remapping in
> particular.
> 
> Another really powerful driver is when accessibility is introduced in
> development funding applications (e.g. Film Victoria), meaning
> applicants are required to at least think about it before they have
> properly started production.
> 
> The disability angle generally seems to be a bigger driver than the
> improving experience angle, with developers who are interested just
> wanting to do the right thing and avoid unnecessarily excluding people.
> That it's also good game design seems more of a nice surprise rather
> than the reason for doing it.
> 
> So for me at least it seems primarily about explaining the disability
> angle, then secondly supporting the disability angle by mentioning that
> it is good general design practice. As a reassurance against the 'it'll
> dilute my mechanic' misconception, and as a way of explaining that it
> isn't anything scary, through showing how much good stuff they're
> already inadvertently doing in their day to day work.
> 
> Ian



From i_h at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 16 03:35:58 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Looking_for_feedback?=
Message-ID: <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40@phx.gbl>


I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and people involved.

Two real world examples:

First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to implement multiple input methods.

The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the designers were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the best. They couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.

So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some aren't physically able.

It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis of accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their original method was obviously the best, and the only people who would use the others would be people who physically had no choice.

They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of the four input methods saw approx 25% use.

So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective. Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design, which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.

Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.

The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.

So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.

They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards accessibility and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term accessibility out of the equation, just let it happen naturally by concentrating on the things that can easily be justified as good general design.

It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort, but it can help in a pinch.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access]  Looking for feedback
Date: Thu, Apr 16, 2015 05:35


Regarding the "disability angle", yes... that will always be there and
will continue to be effective.  I'm just thinking that we would be able
to get some developers on board sooner and bring greater visibility to
game accessibility if the case can be made that the core audience will
also benefit from these additional design considerations.  After all,
this works to increase the game's sales potential.

Including disabled gamers also boosts sales potential, but I'm inclined
to believe that in most cases it would be looked at as being higher risk
and with lower potential for rewards.

--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software


> Date: 11 Apr 2015 17:13:08 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> It's a mix, there's still loads of retrofitting that goes on, but as
> awareness increases situations like the attached tweet are becoming
> more common. I often see developers discussing or asking for advice on
> accessibility pretty early on, over colourblindess and remapping in
> particular.
>
> Another really powerful driver is when accessibility is introduced in
> development funding applications (e.g. Film Victoria), meaning
> applicants are required to at least think about it before they have
> properly started production.
>
> The disability angle generally seems to be a bigger driver than the
> improving experience angle, with developers who are interested just
> wanting to do the right thing and avoid unnecessarily excluding people.
> That it's also good game design seems more of a nice surprise rather
> than the reason for doing it.
>
> So for me at least it seems primarily about explaining the disability
> angle, then secondly supporting the disability angle by mentioning that
> it is good general design practice. As a reassurance against the 'it'll
> dilute my mechanic' misconception, and as a way of explaining that it
> isn't anything scary, through showing how much good stuff they're
> already inadvertently doing in their day to day work.
>
> Ian

_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From thomas at westin.nu  Thu Apr 16 04:36:35 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:36:35 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40@phx.gbl>
References: <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CB4E9107-A152-49EA-86C6-24EF3C83D949@westin.nu>

Hi Chad and Ian,

One way to do it, is to simply "do it yourself?. That is the idea behind gameaccessibilitycode.com   , a place where code for different engines and platforms can be shared. Either directly at the designated Github or by simply linkiing to existing repositories and downloads of code examples; both ways work. 

As it is now on the action list, with you and me as leads, I suggest that we get started with a chat meeting. I?ll contact you off list so we can find a time.

Also, anyone on the list who knows coders who would like to contribute, please let me know. It can be a big or small contributions, existing or new code, all contributions are welcome.

Best regards
Thomas

> 16Apr 2015 kl. 09:35 skrev Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>:
> 
> 
> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and people involved.
> 
> Two real world examples:
> 
> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to implement multiple input methods.
> 
> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the designers were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the best. They couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
> 
> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some aren't physically able.
> 
> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis of accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their original method was obviously the best, and the only people who would use the others would be people who physically had no choice.
> 
> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
> 
> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective. Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design, which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
> 
> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
> 
> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
> 
> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
> 
> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards accessibility and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term accessibility out of the equation, just let it happen naturally by concentrating on the things that can easily be justified as good general design.
> 
> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort, but it can help in a pinch.
> 
> Ian
> 
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com <mailto:chad at anacronist.com>>
> To: <games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>>
> Subject: [games_access]  Looking for feedback
> Date: Thu, Apr 16, 2015 05:35
> 
> 
> Regarding the "disability angle", yes... that will always be there and
> will continue to be effective.  I'm just thinking that we would be able
> to get some developers on board sooner and bring greater visibility to
> game accessibility if the case can be made that the core audience will
> also benefit from these additional design considerations.  After all,
> this works to increase the game's sales potential.
> 
> Including disabled gamers also boosts sales potential, but I'm inclined
> to believe that in most cases it would be looked at as being higher risk
> and with lower potential for rewards.
> 
> --
> Chad Philip Johnson
> Anacronist Software
> 
> 
>> Date: 11 Apr 2015 17:13:08 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com <mailto:i_h at hotmail.com>>
>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
>> <BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80 at phx.gbl <mailto:BAY403-EAS1138ACCC5E3BF608848A00A91F80 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type:
>> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> 
>> It's a mix, there's still loads of retrofitting that goes on, but as
>> awareness increases situations like the attached tweet are becoming
>> more common. I often see developers discussing or asking for advice on
>> accessibility pretty early on, over colourblindess and remapping in
>> particular.
>> 
>> Another really powerful driver is when accessibility is introduced in
>> development funding applications (e.g. Film Victoria), meaning
>> applicants are required to at least think about it before they have
>> properly started production.
>> 
>> The disability angle generally seems to be a bigger driver than the
>> improving experience angle, with developers who are interested just
>> wanting to do the right thing and avoid unnecessarily excluding people.
>> That it's also good game design seems more of a nice surprise rather
>> than the reason for doing it.
>> 
>> So for me at least it seems primarily about explaining the disability
>> angle, then secondly supporting the disability angle by mentioning that
>> it is good general design practice. As a reassurance against the 'it'll
>> dilute my mechanic' misconception, and as a way of explaining that it
>> isn't anything scary, through showing how much good stuff they're
>> already inadvertently doing in their day to day work.
>> 
>> Ian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access <https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access>
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org <http://igda-gasig.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org <mailto:games_access at igda.org>
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access <https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access>
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org <http://igda-gasig.org/>
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From andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 12:30:41 2015
From: andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com (Andreas Lopez)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:30:41 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Game Industry Expert Joins Our Ranks
Message-ID: <CAL+_mRw68=to8_Wj6Y9cTPoECVJ3LFqP==uZT9wzWstyrj2E=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone,

I had connected over the last 1-2 years with Miguel Caron who was the head
of Behaviour Interactives Online Studio until their company reform. He has
a lot of experience in the industry and also renown for his innovative
thinking and good leadership abilities.

I asked him simply to join us, perhaps give us some feedback and/or give us
insight of how it all looks from a Studio / Developer point of view. I
believe by taking individuals like him into our goals, ideas and concepts
we can understand better of how we have to share our knowledge with the
rest of the industry.

Luckily for example I also got the chance to connect with Behaviour's
Nicolas Brunoni, who is the Lead UI designer for bE's upcoming Eternal
Crusade who wants to learn more about Accessibility and how to integrate
it, I had given him all the resources which I also have on my own website +
what I found on the IGDA GA site.

I believe this will be a good year for the GA SIG :)

Sincerely,

Andreas Lopez
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From chad at anacronist.com  Fri Apr 17 00:54:47 2015
From: chad at anacronist.com (Chad Philip Johnson)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:54:47 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2665.1429173434.12295.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.2665.1429173434.12295.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <1429246487.2638.37.camel@localhost>

Hmmmm... well put.  I was thinking that it would be nice to build some
evidence where accessibility considerations also contributed to improved
game design and thus higher sales were attained.  Then I had a really
hard time coming up with ways how this could be done.  A company would
have to release two versions of the game in the same market--one with
these extra design considerations and one without--and then have sales
performance and user feedback compared [???].  

Focus groups for an unreleased game would be the only way to build data
of any value.  Even then, the developer would have to develop two
versions of the game simultaneously:  one with accessibility features
worked in and another without.  It still doesn't make very much sense.
Perhaps it could be done with a very early version of the game....

Academia is really the only place where an undertaking like this might
be feasible.

On the flipside, with the right analytics, it is definitely possible to
track increased sales due to the addition of accessibility features.

Perhaps the connection between accessibility and improved game design is
too abstract an idea for most.  It may also take some finesse.
-- 
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software

> Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and
> people involved.
> 
> Two real world examples:
> 
> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to
> implement multiple input methods.
> 
> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the designers
> were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the best. They
> couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
> 
> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of
> minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not
> really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some aren't
> physically able.
> 
> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they
> implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis of
> accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their original
> method was obviously the best, and the only people who would use the
> others would be people who physically had no choice.
> 
> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of
> the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
> 
> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective.
> Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that
> they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue
> that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design,
> which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
> 
> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
> 
> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but
> any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was
> kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual
> misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
> 
> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of
> their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something
> beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
> 
> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's
> certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my
> own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards accessibility
> and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term accessibility out of
> the equation, just let it happen naturally by concentrating on the
> things that can easily be justified as good general design.
> 
> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what
> constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort,
> but it can help in a pinch.
> 
> Ian




From thomas at westin.nu  Fri Apr 17 03:32:39 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:32:39 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <1429246487.2638.37.camel@localhost>
References: <mailman.2665.1429173434.12295.games_access@igda.org>
 <1429246487.2638.37.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <00B71BB3-F47B-4ADB-BDA3-133AB6556A5D@westin.nu>

Hi Chad,

I don?t think developers need to make two versions of the game for focus group testing or different markets.
Just having a setting in a file or database with a binary switch should work: 
ShowAccessibilityOptions = true/false

Or do I misunderstand something? 

Unless of course, the accessibility is integrated with the game mechanics, but then we are talking more about specially designed games like audio games and not games in general.

Best regards
Thomas

> 17Apr 2015 kl. 06:54 skrev Chad Philip Johnson <chad at anacronist.com>:
> 
> Hmmmm... well put.  I was thinking that it would be nice to build some
> evidence where accessibility considerations also contributed to improved
> game design and thus higher sales were attained.  Then I had a really
> hard time coming up with ways how this could be done.  A company would
> have to release two versions of the game in the same market--one with
> these extra design considerations and one without--and then have sales
> performance and user feedback compared [???].  
> 
> Focus groups for an unreleased game would be the only way to build data
> of any value.  Even then, the developer would have to develop two
> versions of the game simultaneously:  one with accessibility features
> worked in and another without.  It still doesn't make very much sense.
> Perhaps it could be done with a very early version of the game....
> 
> Academia is really the only place where an undertaking like this might
> be feasible.
> 
> On the flipside, with the right analytics, it is definitely possible to
> track increased sales due to the addition of accessibility features.
> 
> Perhaps the connection between accessibility and improved game design is
> too abstract an idea for most.  It may also take some finesse.
> -- 
> Chad Philip Johnson
> Anacronist Software
> 
>> Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
>> <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
>> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> 
>> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and
>> people involved.
>> 
>> Two real world examples:
>> 
>> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to
>> implement multiple input methods.
>> 
>> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the designers
>> were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the best. They
>> couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
>> 
>> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of
>> minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not
>> really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some aren't
>> physically able.
>> 
>> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they
>> implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis of
>> accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their original
>> method was obviously the best, and the only people who would use the
>> others would be people who physically had no choice.
>> 
>> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of
>> the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
>> 
>> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective.
>> Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that
>> they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue
>> that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design,
>> which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
>> 
>> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
>> 
>> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but
>> any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was
>> kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual
>> misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
>> 
>> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of
>> their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something
>> beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
>> 
>> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's
>> certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my
>> own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards accessibility
>> and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term accessibility out of
>> the equation, just let it happen naturally by concentrating on the
>> things that can easily be justified as good general design.
>> 
>> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what
>> constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort,
>> but it can help in a pinch.
>> 
>> Ian
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From thomas at westin.nu  Fri Apr 17 03:34:24 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:34:24 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <00B71BB3-F47B-4ADB-BDA3-133AB6556A5D@westin.nu>
References: <mailman.2665.1429173434.12295.games_access@igda.org>
 <1429246487.2638.37.camel@localhost>
 <00B71BB3-F47B-4ADB-BDA3-133AB6556A5D@westin.nu>
Message-ID: <7CB601DE-2061-429B-BE15-862A62BB9344@westin.nu>

correction: 
> 
> or different markets.
I meant ?within the same market?

/Thomas
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From thomas at westin.nu  Fri Apr 17 03:37:18 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:37:18 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Game Industry Expert Joins Our Ranks
In-Reply-To: <CAL+_mRw68=to8_Wj6Y9cTPoECVJ3LFqP==uZT9wzWstyrj2E=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL+_mRw68=to8_Wj6Y9cTPoECVJ3LFqP==uZT9wzWstyrj2E=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E8CC9B1-A3CE-4E0D-BF1B-1C33C62548B8@westin.nu>

Great Andreas, thanks, and a warm welcome to Miguel and Nicolas!

Best regards,
Thomas

> 16Apr 2015 kl. 18:30 skrev Andreas Lopez <andreas.lopez93 at gmail.com>:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> I had connected over the last 1-2 years with Miguel Caron who was the head of Behaviour Interactives Online Studio until their company reform. He has a lot of experience in the industry and also renown for his innovative thinking and good leadership abilities.
> 
> I asked him simply to join us, perhaps give us some feedback and/or give us insight of how it all looks from a Studio / Developer point of view. I believe by taking individuals like him into our goals, ideas and concepts we can understand better of how we have to share our knowledge with the rest of the industry.
> 
> Luckily for example I also got the chance to connect with Behaviour's Nicolas Brunoni, who is the Lead UI designer for bE's upcoming Eternal Crusade who wants to learn more about Accessibility and how to integrate it, I had given him all the resources which I also have on my own website + what I found on the IGDA GA site.
> 
> I believe this will be a good year for the GA SIG :)
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Andreas Lopez
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From i_h at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 17 04:07:25 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 17 Apr 2015 01:07:25 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Looking_for_feedback?=
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS205CE0A29E7F86AA104B43391E30@phx.gbl>


The difficulty is relating sales to design considerations, as you have no way of knowing why someone bought a game.

And anything you learn before launch its only good for anecdotes rather than data, as even with beta releases the sample is too small and too skewed.

However, if your business model isn't based on upfront sales, if you're making money post-launch through IAPs etc it perfectly possible, through what you said about two versions of the game.

That's an existing technique, called A/B testing. You make two slight variations of a point release, only changing one very specific element (e.g. 3 lives in one version, 4 in the other) so you know that any differences in data only relate to that change. You can then look differences in IAP revenue between the two.

You need lots of data for it to have any significance, so you need a popular game with lots of players and a time investment too, but it gets you hard specific data.

Big F2P companies such as King have big teams of data scientists already collecting data like that, some of which would relate to decisions that are also useful for accessibility, but the data is commercially sensitive, they aren't going to want to share it publicly.

There's also the other thing you mentioned about tracking usage of individual features, which is easy. Again though the problem is relating it to money.

It is possible in certain circumstances though, when you're looking at it in terms of disability rather than general usefulness. Although there are exceptions, it's safe to say the majority of people who will play a game with a screen reader turned on would not be playing it if screen readers weren't supported. And on mobile, it's easy to track how many of your players have a screen reader turned on.

Solara did it, and discovered that their blind players played for much longer and spent far more on in app purchases than anyone else.

As did MUDRammer, the developer spent two days implementing screen reader support, and soon after he did, started tracking data and saw that 13% of his players were screen reader users (13 times higher than prevalence in the general population... As with Solara, experiencing the benefits of catering to underserved audiences!). He doesn't have a large player base, but at $5 per sale and two days to implement, he still made a more or less instant profit on his blind-accessibility work.

Even if you can't relate it to sales, the data is still valuable. For example tracking how many people play with subtitles turned on, how many people remap their controls, how many adjust individual volume levels independently, etc.

If you can demonstrate that a feature is used by a large number of players relative to how much effort it took to develop, that justifies it being higher priority in future games (and other people's future games too, if the data can be shared). Which means more chance if it being included, and more chance of it having decent time spent on it.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2015 06:41


Hmmmm... well put.  I was thinking that it would be nice to build some
evidence where accessibility considerations also contributed to improved
game design and thus higher sales were attained.  Then I had a really
hard time coming up with ways how this could be done.  A company would
have to release two versions of the game in the same market--one with
these extra design considerations and one without--and then have sales
performance and user feedback compared [???].

Focus groups for an unreleased game would be the only way to build data
of any value.  Even then, the developer would have to develop two
versions of the game simultaneously:  one with accessibility features
worked in and another without.  It still doesn't make very much sense.
Perhaps it could be done with a very early version of the game....

Academia is really the only place where an undertaking like this might
be feasible.

On the flipside, with the right analytics, it is definitely possible to
track increased sales due to the addition of accessibility features.

Perhaps the connection between accessibility and improved game design is
too abstract an idea for most.  It may also take some finesse.
--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software

> Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and
> people involved.
>
> Two real world examples:
>
> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to
> implement multiple input methods.
>
> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the designers
> were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the best. They
> couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
>
> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of
> minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not
> really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some aren't
> physically able.
>
> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they
> implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis of
> accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their original
> method was obviously the best, and the only people who would use the
> others would be people who physically had no choice.
>
> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of
> the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
>
> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective.
> Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that
> they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue
> that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design,
> which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
>
> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
>
> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but
> any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was
> kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual
> misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
>
> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of
> their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something
> beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
>
> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's
> certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my
> own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards accessibility
> and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term accessibility out of
> the equation, just let it happen naturally by concentrating on the
> things that can easily be justified as good general design.
>
> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what
> constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort,
> but it can help in a pinch.
>
> Ian


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From khattner at crystald.com  Sat Apr 18 16:25:03 2015
From: khattner at crystald.com (Kari Hattner)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:25:03 +0000
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS205CE0A29E7F86AA104B43391E30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS205CE0A29E7F86AA104B43391E30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DDDEE3B77870D641A222E295C2646EB81B3E291E@CANPMS01.eidos.com>

Where experimentation is not possible, the important thing is to get metrics on these features. The games I work on, we know how many people get through each level, which weapons they use the most, etc. So, I've requested to track things like how many people have subtitles turned on, or if we had the option to remap controls, I would want to know how many people use that feature. If you can show the management that a significant portion of your users use these features, it will add weight to implementing more, regardless of why they are using the feature.

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Ian Hamilton
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 1:07 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback


The difficulty is relating sales to design considerations, as you have no way of knowing why someone bought a game.

And anything you learn before launch its only good for anecdotes rather than data, as even with beta releases the sample is too small and too skewed.

However, if your business model isn't based on upfront sales, if you're making money post-launch through IAPs etc it perfectly possible, through what you said about two versions of the game.

That's an existing technique, called A/B testing. You make two slight variations of a point release, only changing one very specific element (e.g. 3 lives in one version, 4 in the other) so you know that any differences in data only relate to that change. You can then look differences in IAP revenue between the two.

You need lots of data for it to have any significance, so you need a popular game with lots of players and a time investment too, but it gets you hard specific data.

Big F2P companies such as King have big teams of data scientists already collecting data like that, some of which would relate to decisions that are also useful for accessibility, but the data is commercially sensitive, they aren't going to want to share it publicly.

There's also the other thing you mentioned about tracking usage of individual features, which is easy. Again though the problem is relating it to money.

It is possible in certain circumstances though, when you're looking at it in terms of disability rather than general usefulness. Although there are exceptions, it's safe to say the majority of people who will play a game with a screen reader turned on would not be playing it if screen readers weren't supported. And on mobile, it's easy to track how many of your players have a screen reader turned on.

Solara did it, and discovered that their blind players played for much longer and spent far more on in app purchases than anyone else.

As did MUDRammer, the developer spent two days implementing screen reader support, and soon after he did, started tracking data and saw that 13% of his players were screen reader users (13 times higher than prevalence in the general population... As with Solara, experiencing the benefits of catering to underserved audiences!). He doesn't have a large player base, but at $5 per sale and two days to implement, he still made a more or less instant profit on his blind-accessibility work.

Even if you can't relate it to sales, the data is still valuable. For example tracking how many people play with subtitles turned on, how many people remap their controls, how many adjust individual volume levels independently, etc.

If you can demonstrate that a feature is used by a large number of players relative to how much effort it took to develop, that justifies it being higher priority in future games (and other people's future games too, if the data can be shared). Which means more chance if it being included, and more chance of it having decent time spent on it.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2015 06:41


Hmmmm... well put.  I was thinking that it would be nice to build some evidence where accessibility considerations also contributed to improved game design and thus higher sales were attained.  Then I had a really hard time coming up with ways how this could be done.  A company would have to release two versions of the game in the same market--one with these extra design considerations and one without--and then have sales performance and user feedback compared [???].

Focus groups for an unreleased game would be the only way to build data of any value.  Even then, the developer would have to develop two versions of the game simultaneously:  one with accessibility features worked in and another without.  It still doesn't make very much sense.
Perhaps it could be done with a very early version of the game....

Academia is really the only place where an undertaking like this might be feasible.

On the flipside, with the right analytics, it is definitely possible to track increased sales due to the addition of accessibility features.

Perhaps the connection between accessibility and improved game design is too abstract an idea for most.  It may also take some finesse.
--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software

> Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and 
> people involved.
>
> Two real world examples:
>
> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to 
> implement multiple input methods.
>
> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the 
> designers were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the 
> best. They couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
>
> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of 
> minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not 
> really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some 
> aren't physically able.
>
> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they 
> implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis 
> of accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their 
> original method was obviously the best, and the only people who would 
> use the others would be people who physically had no choice.
>
> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of 
> the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
>
> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective.
> Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that 
> they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue 
> that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design, 
> which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
>
> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
>
> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but 
> any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was 
> kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual 
> misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
>
> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of 
> their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something 
> beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
>
> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's 
> certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my 
> own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards 
> accessibility and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term 
> accessibility out of the equation, just let it happen naturally by 
> concentrating on the things that can easily be justified as good general design.
>
> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what 
> constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort, 
> but it can help in a pinch.
>
> Ian


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs ______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs
______________________________________________________________________

From sandra_uhling at web.de  Sat Apr 18 16:51:03 2015
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra_Uhling)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 22:51:03 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <DDDEE3B77870D641A222E295C2646EB81B3E291E@CANPMS01.eidos.com>
References: <BLU405-EAS205CE0A29E7F86AA104B43391E30@phx.gbl>
 <DDDEE3B77870D641A222E295C2646EB81B3E291E@CANPMS01.eidos.com>
Message-ID: <000001d07a19$6380f070$2a82d150$@de>

Hi Kari,

I love your sentence:
"If you can show the management that a significant portion of your users use
these features, it will add weight to implementing more, regardless of why
they are using the feature."

:-)
At the end we have to look independent if someone has a disability or not.

Regards,
Sandra


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Kari
Hattner
Gesendet: Samstag, 18. April 2015 22:25
An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback

Where experimentation is not possible, the important thing is to get metrics
on these features. The games I work on, we know how many people get through
each level, which weapons they use the most, etc. So, I've requested to
track things like how many people have subtitles turned on, or if we had the
option to remap controls, I would want to know how many people use that
feature. If you can show the management that a significant portion of your
users use these features, it will add weight to implementing more,
regardless of why they are using the feature.

-----Original Message-----
From: games_access [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Ian
Hamilton
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 1:07 AM
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback


The difficulty is relating sales to design considerations, as you have no
way of knowing why someone bought a game.

And anything you learn before launch its only good for anecdotes rather than
data, as even with beta releases the sample is too small and too skewed.

However, if your business model isn't based on upfront sales, if you're
making money post-launch through IAPs etc it perfectly possible, through
what you said about two versions of the game.

That's an existing technique, called A/B testing. You make two slight
variations of a point release, only changing one very specific element (e.g.
3 lives in one version, 4 in the other) so you know that any differences in
data only relate to that change. You can then look differences in IAP
revenue between the two.

You need lots of data for it to have any significance, so you need a popular
game with lots of players and a time investment too, but it gets you hard
specific data.

Big F2P companies such as King have big teams of data scientists already
collecting data like that, some of which would relate to decisions that are
also useful for accessibility, but the data is commercially sensitive, they
aren't going to want to share it publicly.

There's also the other thing you mentioned about tracking usage of
individual features, which is easy. Again though the problem is relating it
to money.

It is possible in certain circumstances though, when you're looking at it in
terms of disability rather than general usefulness. Although there are
exceptions, it's safe to say the majority of people who will play a game
with a screen reader turned on would not be playing it if screen readers
weren't supported. And on mobile, it's easy to track how many of your
players have a screen reader turned on.

Solara did it, and discovered that their blind players played for much
longer and spent far more on in app purchases than anyone else.

As did MUDRammer, the developer spent two days implementing screen reader
support, and soon after he did, started tracking data and saw that 13% of
his players were screen reader users (13 times higher than prevalence in the
general population... As with Solara, experiencing the benefits of catering
to underserved audiences!). He doesn't have a large player base, but at $5
per sale and two days to implement, he still made a more or less instant
profit on his blind-accessibility work.

Even if you can't relate it to sales, the data is still valuable. For
example tracking how many people play with subtitles turned on, how many
people remap their controls, how many adjust individual volume levels
independently, etc.

If you can demonstrate that a feature is used by a large number of players
relative to how much effort it took to develop, that justifies it being
higher priority in future games (and other people's future games too, if the
data can be shared). Which means more chance if it being included, and more
chance of it having decent time spent on it.

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chad Philip Johnson" <chad at anacronist.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2015 06:41


Hmmmm... well put.  I was thinking that it would be nice to build some
evidence where accessibility considerations also contributed to improved
game design and thus higher sales were attained.  Then I had a really hard
time coming up with ways how this could be done.  A company would have to
release two versions of the game in the same market--one with these extra
design considerations and one without--and then have sales performance and
user feedback compared [???].

Focus groups for an unreleased game would be the only way to build data of
any value.  Even then, the developer would have to develop two versions of
the game simultaneously:  one with accessibility features worked in and
another without.  It still doesn't make very much sense.
Perhaps it could be done with a very early version of the game....

Academia is really the only place where an undertaking like this might be
feasible.

On the flipside, with the right analytics, it is definitely possible to
track increased sales due to the addition of accessibility features.

Perhaps the connection between accessibility and improved game design is too
abstract an idea for most.  It may also take some finesse.
--
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software

> Date: 16 Apr 2015 00:35:58 -0700 From: Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>
> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List  <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for feedback Message-ID:
> <COL401-EAS473F56530E9FCFD393D999491E40 at phx.gbl> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> I think both angles can have value, depending on the situation and 
> people involved.
>
> Two real world examples:
>
> First someone who was trying to persuade others in their team to 
> implement multiple input methods.
>
> The good game design for all players angle was no use, as the 
> designers were convinced that the input method they had chosen was the 
> best. They couldn't picture anyone having different preferences.
>
> So then the accessibility angle. Doing the work solely for benefit of 
> minorities was easier than the game design angle because it's not 
> really a matter of opinion, its easy enough to explain that some 
> aren't physically able.
>
> It came down to the line, but towards the end of development they 
> implemented four different input methods. It was solely on the basis 
> of accessibility, the designers were still convinced that their 
> original method was obviously the best, and the only people who would 
> use the others would be people who physically had no choice.
>
> They then tracked the data and discovered how wrong that was, each of 
> the four input methods saw approx 25% use.
>
> So in this example selling it on game design alone was ineffective.
> Accessibility alone was more effective, but still tough. But now that 
> they have the data, for future games they'll be able to solidly argue 
> that it should be done for both accessibility and good game design, 
> which will be an easier sell again than either angle was individually.
>
> Second example, one of the big FPS franchises.
>
> The designers there desperately wanted to work on accessibility, but 
> any time anything disability related made it onto the backlog it was 
> kicked straight off again by their bosses, due to the usual 
> misconceptions about demographics and return on investment.
>
> So they were looking for ways to get stuff in as good design. Top of 
> their list was remapping, which they wanted to push as something 
> beneficial for core gamers, and not mention accessibility at all.
>
> They weren't successful with that particular feature, but it's 
> certainly something that I've done myself before when dealing with my 
> own colleagues or bosses who are actively hostile towards 
> accessibility and can't be persuaded otherwise... Leave the term 
> accessibility out of the equation, just let it happen naturally by 
> concentrating on the things that can easily be justified as good general
design.
>
> It's not ideal, it can be trumped by other people's ideas of what 
> constitutes good design and I wouldn't rely on it as a first resort, 
> but it can help in a pinch.
>
> Ian


_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs
______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs
______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From chad at anacronist.com  Sun Apr 19 02:23:27 2015
From: chad at anacronist.com (Chad Philip Johnson)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 23:23:27 -0700
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2823.1429258046.12295.games_access@igda.org>
References: <mailman.2823.1429258046.12295.games_access@igda.org>
Message-ID: <1429424607.1899.26.camel@localhost>

I'm thinking more about accessibility accommodations that would also
work to contribute to the core experience and improve gameplay.

A simple example that comes to mind is making a target on an enemy
standout clearly from the rest of its form.  Perhaps the color is a
bright red against a dark blue (done tastefully, of course).  In this
case, the target is much more visible because of its high contrast and
you have made the player's objective very clear:  keep shooting the red
spot until your enemy is defeated.

Perhaps a subtler example would be to allow multiple puzzles in a level
to move forward to the next zone, but only one needs to be solved.
Puzzle A emphasizes sound clues while puzzle B emphasizes visual clues.
The player would then choose which puzzle he or she wants to complete in
order to move forward.  Aside from from making the game more accessible,
it would also achieve the following:  01) add replay value because
another puzzle could be attempted the next time through, and 02) create
a higher probability that the player will be able to figure out a way to
advance through the game and not give up in frustration.

-- 
Chad Philip Johnson
Anacronist Software





> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:32:39 +0200 From: Thomas Westin
> <thomas at westin.nu> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
> feedback Message-ID: <00B71BB3-F47B-4ADB-BDA3-133AB6556A5D at westin.nu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Chad,
> 
> I don?t think developers need to make two versions of the game for
> focus group testing or different markets. Just having a setting in a
> file or database with a binary switch should work:
> ShowAccessibilityOptions = true/false
> 
> Or do I misunderstand something? 
> 
> Unless of course, the accessibility is integrated with the game
> mechanics, but then we are talking more about specially designed games
> like audio games and not games in general.
> 
> Best regards Thomas



From eleanor at 7128.com  Sun Apr 19 09:32:05 2015
From: eleanor at 7128.com (Eleanor)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:32:05 -0400
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
Message-ID: <5533AE55.5090403@7128.com>

Chad spoke about marking a target to make it stand out more clearly.  
Another example, and one that pertains to MANY gamers is to make the 
speed of action variable.  Most of us have had an experience of being so 
frustrated you stop playing a game because you can't move as rapidly as 
required while you are a newbie at the particular game.  Then you don't 
recommend the game to others, might even give the game a bad review.

If the game had a speed dial that could be slowed down until you get 
"muscle memory" on the actions you need to take, you would not be as 
frustrated.  This also makes the game far more accessible to silver 
gamers whose reflexes have slowed, people using assistive devices to 
select and item etc.

Another example would be to have two modes of text display.  The small 
font, low contrast text seen in many games is almost impossible for 
silver gamers, many of whom have cataracts or other impaired vision to 
see.  It also is difficult for VI gamers.  Why not have a larger font, 
higher contrast option that would make the games accessible to more people.

There are a number of accommodations like that we could list for game 
companies to try and see if it improves gameplay and increases sales.

Eleanor Robinson
7-128 Software


From thomas at westin.nu  Sun Apr 19 15:07:46 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 21:07:46 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <1429424607.1899.26.camel@localhost>
References: <mailman.2823.1429258046.12295.games_access@igda.org>
 <1429424607.1899.26.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <5E9517F8-C00A-418F-AA89-61FB25A0283C@westin.nu>

Aha, OK, but as such features are overlapping testing for usability and playability, I think it is doable. This is often done in various prototypes during various stages of development. 

Best regards,
Thomas

> 19Apr 2015 kl. 08:23 Chad Philip Johnson <chad at anacronist.com>:
> 
> I'm thinking more about accessibility accommodations that would also
> work to contribute to the core experience and improve gameplay.
> 
> A simple example that comes to mind is making a target on an enemy
> standout clearly from the rest of its form.  Perhaps the color is a
> bright red against a dark blue (done tastefully, of course).  In this
> case, the target is much more visible because of its high contrast and
> you have made the player's objective very clear:  keep shooting the red
> spot until your enemy is defeated.
> 
> Perhaps a subtler example would be to allow multiple puzzles in a level
> to move forward to the next zone, but only one needs to be solved.
> Puzzle A emphasizes sound clues while puzzle B emphasizes visual clues.
> The player would then choose which puzzle he or she wants to complete in
> order to move forward.  Aside from from making the game more accessible,
> it would also achieve the following:  01) add replay value because
> another puzzle could be attempted the next time through, and 02) create
> a higher probability that the player will be able to figure out a way to
> advance through the game and not give up in frustration.
> 
> -- 
> Chad Philip Johnson
> Anacronist Software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:32:39 +0200 From: Thomas Westin
>> <thomas at westin.nu> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> <games_access at igda.org> Subject: Re: [games_access] Looking for
>> feedback Message-ID: <00B71BB3-F47B-4ADB-BDA3-133AB6556A5D at westin.nu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hi Chad,
>> 
>> I don?t think developers need to make two versions of the game for
>> focus group testing or different markets. Just having a setting in a
>> file or database with a binary switch should work:
>> ShowAccessibilityOptions = true/false
>> 
>> Or do I misunderstand something? 
>> 
>> Unless of course, the accessibility is integrated with the game
>> mechanics, but then we are talking more about specially designed games
>> like audio games and not games in general.
>> 
>> Best regards Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org



From i_h at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 19 18:48:51 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:48:51 +0100
Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
In-Reply-To: <5533AE55.5090403@7128.com>
References: <5533AE55.5090403@7128.com>
Message-ID: <DUB130-W1649968A87F3B870E8D1DB91E10@phx.gbl>

I'd love to see more effort put into contrast, for visuals in general as well as text. I haven't seen many examples of high contrast options, but it's only making more and more sense now that people are more commonly viewing on a wider range of screens in a wider range of environments, and for lots of games it's a really trivial thing to do.
It took this developer a total of around an hour to implement his mode, it's just a rectangle sitting between foreground and background that can be tinted from transparent all the way to fully black or fully white:
http://epicericgame.com/post/66180215279/just-added-a-setting-to-epic-eric-allowing-players
A couple of other recent examples are My Ex Boyfriend the Space Tyrant, which goes for a straightforward on/off toggle of a mostly opaque black rectangle between background and foreground, and A City Sleeps, which does the same, but they also manually tweaked the colour of all of the foreground elements too.
Even just a decent default (i.e. snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html) would be nice.
Ian
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:32:05 -0400
> From: eleanor at 7128.com
> To: games_access at igda.org
> Subject: [games_access] Looking for feedback
> 
> Chad spoke about marking a target to make it stand out more clearly.  
> Another example, and one that pertains to MANY gamers is to make the 
> speed of action variable.  Most of us have had an experience of being so 
> frustrated you stop playing a game because you can't move as rapidly as 
> required while you are a newbie at the particular game.  Then you don't 
> recommend the game to others, might even give the game a bad review.
> 
> If the game had a speed dial that could be slowed down until you get 
> "muscle memory" on the actions you need to take, you would not be as 
> frustrated.  This also makes the game far more accessible to silver 
> gamers whose reflexes have slowed, people using assistive devices to 
> select and item etc.
> 
> Another example would be to have two modes of text display.  The small 
> font, low contrast text seen in many games is almost impossible for 
> silver gamers, many of whom have cataracts or other impaired vision to 
> see.  It also is difficult for VI gamers.  Why not have a larger font, 
> higher contrast option that would make the games accessible to more people.
> 
> There are a number of accommodations like that we could list for game 
> companies to try and see if it improves gameplay and increases sales.
> 
> Eleanor Robinson
> 7-128 Software
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org
 		 	   		  
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From thomas at westin.nu  Mon Apr 20 15:27:55 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:27:55 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Mobile games, best examples?
Message-ID: <8FE6D5E3-30B6-4BFB-AF9A-617FE1C11555@westin.nu>

Hi all,

A quick poll:

I?m planning a lecture about accessibility in mobile games, and I would like your input, please. 

- What are in your opinion the best accessible mobile games at the moment, and for which impairment(s)?

Best regards,
Thomas

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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Mon Apr 20 16:23:46 2015
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra_Uhling)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:23:46 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Game Accessibility Basic
Message-ID: <000c01d07ba7$e7ba8560$b72f9020$@de>

Hello,

 

I would like to create a basic understanding about Game Accessibility.

I prepared a document that needs to be checked. I worked very carefully,

but I am very interested to get feedback from other people. This is

very important for me. 

 

So I am looking for people who would like to work in the small project.

It is planned that also busy people can take part.

 

* I am looking for people who would like to take part

* Google docs seems to be good to work on the text

* I am still not sure about the place for discussions

* A crossover of QA SIG, GA SIG and user research SIG could be interesting.

 

 

Best regards,

Sandra

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From thomas at westin.nu  Mon Apr 20 18:23:21 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 00:23:21 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Action List now on the web
Message-ID: <BCE27085-8869-4418-85CB-4C8826199765@westin.nu>

Hi,

I?ve linked to and blogged about the Action List, and made a specific page under News and Events:

http://igda-gasig.org/events/the-ga-sig-action-list/ <http://igda-gasig.org/events/the-ga-sig-action-list/>

Hopefully, no one visiting the site should miss it 

/Thomas
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From i_h at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 20 18:47:42 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 20 Apr 2015 15:47:42 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Mobile_games=2C_best_examples=3F?=
Message-ID: <COL403-EAS1949F042E823D18A23D5C391E00@phx.gbl>


I did a talk on mobile recently, if that's any use - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrPiWncSgY

Some I'd recommend checking out are..

Puzzle Retreat (motor, cognitive & colourblind)
Epic Eric (vision)
Dice World (blind)
Audio Defence Zombie arena (blind)
Into the Dead (motor)
Bertram Fiddle (hearing)
Rush Rally (motor)
Need for Speed: Most Wanted (motor)
Candy Crush Soda (colourblind)
The Last Door (hearing & cognitive)
Xcom: Enemy Enknown (cognitive)
FREEQ (blind)
Appointment with FEAR (cognitive)

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at westin.nu>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: [games_access] Mobile games, best examples?
Date: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 20:28


Hi all,

A quick poll:

I?m planning a lecture about accessibility in mobile games, and I would like your input, please.

- What are in your opinion the best accessible mobile games at the moment, and for which impairment(s)?

Best regards,
Thomas

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_______________________________________________
games_access mailing list
games_access at igda.org
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

From thomas at westin.nu  Tue Apr 21 09:05:39 2015
From: thomas at westin.nu (Thomas Westin)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:05:39 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Mobile games, best examples?
In-Reply-To: <COL403-EAS1949F042E823D18A23D5C391E00@phx.gbl>
References: <COL403-EAS1949F042E823D18A23D5C391E00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <919A5E09-4933-4981-92BA-A81A5B1B35D3@westin.nu>

Thanks Ian!

/Thomas

> 21Apr 2015 kl. 00:47 skrev Ian Hamilton <i_h at hotmail.com>:
> 
> I did a talk on mobile recently, if that's any use -https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrPiWncSgY <https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrPiWncSgY>
> 
> Some I'd recommend checking out are..
> 
> Puzzle Retreat (motor, cognitive & colourblind)
> Epic Eric (vision)
> Dice World (blind)
> Audio Defence Zombie arena (blind)
> Into the Dead (motor)
> Bertram Fiddle (hearing)
> Rush Rally (motor)
> Need for Speed: Most Wanted (motor)
> Candy Crush Soda (colourblind)
> The Last Door (hearing & cognitive)
> Xcom: Enemy Enknown (cognitive)
> FREEQ (blind)
> Appointment with FEAR (cognitive)
> 
> Ian
> 
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at westin.nu>
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
> Subject: [games_access] Mobile games, best examples?
> Date: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 20:28
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> A quick poll:
> 
> I?m planning a lecture about accessibility in mobile games, and I would like your input, please. 
> 
> - What are in your opinion the best accessible mobile games at the moment, and for which impairment(s)?
> 
> Best regards,
> Thomas
> 
> <Brevbilaga.txt>_______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> The main SIG website page is http://igda-gasig.org

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From i_h at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 21 23:34:58 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 21 Apr 2015 20:34:58 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Gamescom_/_GDC_Europe?=
Message-ID: <SNT405-EAS3342863C1D8A51568E9846591EE0@phx.gbl>


Anyone planning on being at either?

Ian


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From i_h at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 21 23:57:39 2015
From: i_h at hotmail.com (Ian Hamilton)
Date: 21 Apr 2015 20:57:39 -0700
Subject: [games_access] =?utf-8?q?Gamescom_/_GDC_Europe?=
Message-ID: <COL403-EAS209699A840502F513E313ED91EE0@phx.gbl>


Also is anyone at Quo Vadis at the moment?

Ian

----- Reply message -----
From: "Ian Hamilton" <i_h at hotmail.com>
To: <games_access at igda.org>
Subject: Gamescom / GDC Europe
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2015 04:34



Anyone planning on being at either?

Ian


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From sandra_uhling at web.de  Wed Apr 22 02:34:47 2015
From: sandra_uhling at web.de (Sandra Uhling)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 08:34:47 +0200
Subject: [games_access] Gamescom / GDC Europe
Message-ID: <trinity-e6bc3bbb-b595-4876-9c36-b3864f466674-1429684487525@msvc-mesg-web005>

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