From g0dvj at amsat.org Sun Jul 24 09:58:50 2005 From: g0dvj at amsat.org (Jonathan G0DVJ) Date: Sun Jul 24 09:58:53 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] epilogue (for now!) Message-ID: Hi to all who are still on this list that we set up near the start of 2005 for discussions on any consensus for a MacLogger Contest program for OSX. I just wanted to tie up some loose ends for those of you that may have thought I had gone and slit my wrists having failed to achieve the level of consensus required !! There was quite a lot of detailed discussion directly between Don (VE3VRW), Scott (NE1RD) and myself during April which have resulted in a number of contest additions around that time to the existing MLDX software by Don. I was then away in USA and Canada for most of May and then travelling again in Europe during June. In the last month I have been too ill with a virus to bother too much about such a posting as this. So apologies for the silence until now. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the list, especially Don who has shown considerable patience with us all in trying to follow the immensely detailed and specialised contest requirements for logging and subsequently adding some very useful features to MLDX for basic contest working. I conclude for the moment that there is consensus that a dedicated MLC application for pure OSX suited for demanding contest operators as well as easy enough basic features for the casual participant is still something that would have a market and for which a gap still exists. I also conclude that there is insufficient impetus at this time for such software to be developed as a new commercial application. I hope that this may change in the future. Thanks again all. 73, Jonathan G0DVJ -- From ccc at space.mit.edu Sun Jul 24 10:19:17 2005 From: ccc at space.mit.edu (Chuck Counselman) Date: Sun Jul 24 10:19:26 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] epilogue (for now!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:58 PM +0100 7/24/05, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: >...I conclude for the moment that there is consensus that a >dedicated MLC application for pure OSX suited for demanding contest >operators as well as easy enough basic features for the casual >participant is still something that would have a market and for >which a gap still exists. I am still in the market for it. >I also conclude that there is insufficient impetus at this time for >such software to be developed as a new commercial application. >I hope that this may change in the future. I hope it'll change, too. 73 de Chuck, W1HIS From publitek at mac.com Sun Jul 24 11:48:32 2005 From: publitek at mac.com (Bob Jones) Date: Sun Jul 24 11:49:25 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] epilogue (for now!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38870d57b950bbf434c393a08ff9c7f1@mac.com> Jonathan I think I came to MLDX too late to be involved in this discussion but having used the programme in the 80m Club Championships I can suggest one very simply modification that would help contesters. This is to put the signal report and serial number fields directly after the callsign field. That way a simply 'tab' button, rather than navigating the screen with a mouse, could be used after the callsign has been logged. I realise that for DX-ing this may not be the ideal, but there's normally a little more time available between QSOs then! Best regards Bob, G3YIQ The Old Vicarage Bradford-on-Avon Wiltshire BA15 2SB M: 07802 956179 On 24 Jul 2005, at 14:58, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > > Hi to all who are still on this list that we set up near the start of > 2005 for discussions on any consensus for a MacLogger Contest program > for OSX. I just wanted to tie up some loose ends for those of you > that may have thought I had gone and slit my wrists having failed to > achieve the level of consensus required !! > > There was quite a lot of detailed discussion directly between Don > (VE3VRW), Scott (NE1RD) and myself during April which have resulted in > a number of contest additions around that time to the existing MLDX > software by Don. I was then away in USA and Canada for most of May > and then travelling again in Europe during June. In the last month I > have been too ill with a virus to bother too much about such a posting > as this. So apologies for the silence until now. > > I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the list, especially > Don who has shown considerable patience with us all in trying to > follow the immensely detailed and specialised contest requirements for > logging and subsequently adding some very useful features to MLDX for > basic contest working. > > I conclude for the moment that there is consensus that a dedicated MLC > application for pure OSX suited for demanding contest operators as > well as easy enough basic features for the casual participant is still > something that would have a market and for which a gap still exists. > I also conclude that there is insufficient impetus at this time for > such software to be developed as a new commercial application. I hope > that this may change in the future. > > Thanks again all. > 73, > Jonathan G0DVJ > -- > > _______________________________________________ > MacLoggerContest mailing list > MacLoggerContest@dogparksoftware.com > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/macloggercontest/attachments/20050724/efd48a9c/attachment.bin From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Jul 25 07:58:49 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Jul 25 07:58:57 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] epilogue (for now!) In-Reply-To: <38870d57b950bbf434c393a08ff9c7f1@mac.com> References: <38870d57b950bbf434c393a08ff9c7f1@mac.com> Message-ID: <730D0E24-6CC8-41FC-B24C-D6E0CE64A309@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Bob, On 24-Jul-05, at 11:48 AM, Bob Jones wrote: > I think I came to MLDX too late to be involved in this discussion > but having used the programme in the 80m Club Championships I can > suggest one very simply modification that would help contesters. > This is to put the signal report and serial number fields directly > after the callsign field. That way a simply 'tab' button, rather > than navigating the screen with a mouse, could be used after the > callsign has been logged. I realise that for DX-ing this may not > be the ideal, but there's normally a little more time available > between QSOs then! Very good idea ! See version 4.1.1b9 ... 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Jul 25 11:16:03 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Jul 25 11:16:08 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: [DogParkList] Logging field positions In-Reply-To: <3f654186f026cb1d07b78ff926a8b9f9@amsat.org> References: <38870d57b950bbf434c393a08ff9c7f1@mac.com> <730D0E24-6CC8-41FC-B24C-D6E0CE64A309@dogparksoftware.com> <1122294449.15143.239167526@webmail.messagingengine.com> <015A934B-1DFA-42DA-AE9A-43CB0A08D414@dogparksoftware.com> <3f654186f026cb1d07b78ff926a8b9f9@amsat.org> Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, On 25-Jul-05, at 9:17 AM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > I suppose having an additional contest input helper window which > could perform this function wouldn't make things any easier either, > given the discussions we have had before Don ? > > Good to have different people putting forward ideas though - since > some like Bob's will be possible in the interim. I guess what I am trying to say is that the Apple way is to do the design right - the Microsoft way is get it out the door with as many features, preferences, configurations, profiles and modes as possible to try and keep everyone happy. It is one thing for the end user to drag the columns around in a list view but quite another thing to incorporate a full fledged user interface design system. The analogy to the cellphone profile was made and I think the cellphone is an excellent example of UI design gone horribly wrong. I love my Sony-Ericsson T610 - but I shudder every time I have to play with the settings or change the profiles. As Mac users we expect the user interface to just make sense and to only reveal complexity when we need it. I could take several months to create an interface builder for MLDX but that would be several months not improving the program for DXers, SWLers rag chewers etc. Where ever possible I will continue to add features to MacLoggerDX to make contesting easier/more enjoyable. I thought Bob Jones' suggestion was elegant, made perfect sense and I added it this morning to MLDX v4.1.1b9 On 24-Jul-05, at 11:48 AM, Bob Jones wrote: > I think I came to MLDX too late to be involved in this discussion > but having used the programme in the 80m Club Championships I can > suggest one very simply modification that would help contesters. > This is to put the signal report and serial number fields directly > after the callsign field. That way a simply 'tab' button, rather > than navigating the screen with a mouse, could be used after the > callsign has been logged. I realise that for DX-ing this may not > be the ideal, but there's normally a little more time available > between QSOs then! > > Best regards > Bob, G3YIQ But as you can see from the new 4.1.1b9 screenshot (you may have to refresh your browser) this change makes sense for everyone - not just contesters. I look forward to hearing more suggestions like this from contesters and will be happy to implement them. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Sun Jul 31 17:58:50 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Sun Jul 31 17:58:53 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: Serial numbers In-Reply-To: <20050725115854.D66B8572AA@seven.pairlist.net> Message-ID: So, is STX S & R the serial number? If so, why 2 fields for each? On 25/7/05 12:58 pm, "macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com" sent: > > Very good idea ! See version 4.1.1b9 ... > > > > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > MacLoggerContest mailing list > MacLoggerContest@dogparksoftware.com > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest > > End of MacLoggerContest Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2 > ********************************************** -- God could not be everywhere, and therefore he created mothers. -Jewish proverb From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Sun Jul 31 18:40:28 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Sun Jul 31 18:40:39 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: Serial numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <376B70BE-090A-4AFA-8479-447E8C4F17EF@dogparksoftware.com> Hi David, On 31-Jul-05, at 5:58 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > So, is STX S & R the serial number? > If so, why 2 fields for each? One numeric, one string. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Sun Jul 31 19:10:29 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Sun Jul 31 19:10:32 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerContest Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <20050731224040.078C2571FE@seven.pairlist.net> Message-ID: Ok, so I'm assuming STX is the sent serial number and SRX is received serial number. Since you have 'RST S' and 'RST R', would it not be more consistent to have 'SNo S' and 'SNo R' or perhaps 'Ser S' and 'Ser R' ? Also, since in most contests (limited number I've seen anyway), the RST both sent and received is nearly always 59, would it not be possible to tab from call, directly to 'SRX'? These normally being the only 2 fields required if everything else is filled in from previous values or radio. This may either require a change of field position or perhaps an option to change tab order? I'm assuming STX is sent serial number, but this does not appear to increase with each logged QSO, can you increment the number after a QSO is logged, so its there ready to tell the contact what the number is? Even better, provide a popup with this number in large letters so its easy to read off, or perhaps embolden the number. Also, looks to me like you add additional leading zeros if I enter 001 as the first number, but 6 digits is too wide for the field to display? On 31/7/05 11:40 pm, "macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com" sent: > Send MacLoggerContest mailing list submissions to > macloggercontest@dogparksoftware.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > macloggercontest-owner@dogparksoftware.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of MacLoggerContest digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [DogParkList] Logging field positions (Don Agro) > 2. Re: Serial numbers (David Ferrington) > 3. Re: Re: Serial numbers (Don Agro) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:16:03 -0400 > From: Don Agro > Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: [DogParkList] Logging field positions > To: Jonathan G0DVJ > Cc: dogparklist 'dogparklist ' , > macloggercontest@dogparksoftware.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hi Jonathan, > > On 25-Jul-05, at 9:17 AM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > >> I suppose having an additional contest input helper window which >> could perform this function wouldn't make things any easier either, >> given the discussions we have had before Don ? >> >> Good to have different people putting forward ideas though - since >> some like Bob's will be possible in the interim. > > I guess what I am trying to say is that the Apple way is to do the > design right - the Microsoft way is get it out the door with as many > features, preferences, configurations, profiles and modes as possible > to try and keep everyone happy. > > It is one thing for the end user to drag the columns around in a list > view but quite another thing to incorporate a full fledged user > interface design system. > > The analogy to the cellphone profile was made and I think the > cellphone is an excellent example of UI design gone horribly wrong. > > I love my Sony-Ericsson T610 - but I shudder every time I have to > play with the settings or change the profiles. > > As Mac users we expect the user interface to just make sense and to > only reveal complexity when we need it. > > I could take several months to create an interface builder for MLDX > but that would be several months not improving the program for DXers, > SWLers rag chewers etc. > > Where ever possible I will continue to add features to MacLoggerDX to > make contesting easier/more enjoyable. > > I thought Bob Jones' suggestion was elegant, made perfect sense and I > added it this morning to MLDX v4.1.1b9 > > On 24-Jul-05, at 11:48 AM, Bob Jones wrote: > >> I think I came to MLDX too late to be involved in this discussion >> but having used the programme in the 80m Club Championships I can >> suggest one very simply modification that would help contesters. >> This is to put the signal report and serial number fields directly >> after the callsign field. That way a simply 'tab' button, rather >> than navigating the screen with a mouse, could be used after the >> callsign has been logged. I realise that for DX-ing this may not >> be the ideal, but there's normally a little more time available >> between QSOs then! >> >> Best regards >> Bob, G3YIQ > > But as you can see from the new 4.1.1b9 screenshot (you may have to > refresh your browser) MacLoggerDX.html> this change makes sense for everyone - not just > contesters. > > I look forward to hearing more suggestions like this from contesters > and will be happy to implement them. > > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:58:50 +0100 > From: David Ferrington <2E0XDF@Alphadene.co.uk> > Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: Serial numbers > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > So, is STX S & R the serial number? > If so, why 2 fields for each? > > > > On 25/7/05 12:58 pm, "macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com" > sent: > > >> >> Very good idea ! See version 4.1.1b9 ... >> >> >> >> >> 73 Don Agro VE3VRW >> >> D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . >> >> email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com >> www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com >> iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacLoggerContest mailing list >> MacLoggerContest@dogparksoftware.com >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest >> >> End of MacLoggerContest Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2 >> ********************************************** -- The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. -Groucho Marx From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Sun Jul 31 19:17:27 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Sun Jul 31 19:17:30 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] fast keyboard logging In-Reply-To: <20050731224040.078C2571FE@seven.pairlist.net> Message-ID: According to the manual, in MLDX: Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: 1 Enter call. 2 Hit return (this does a lookup). 3 Hit G this logs the call and highlights call text. 4 Ready for 1 again. ? K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to the Call Sign field. ? Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered across sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found in a look up. As far as I can see, Cmd-G does not log the QSO or highlight the call ready for next entry? Cmd-Shift-L does do that. Using Cmd-return would be even better for step 3 (imho) -- An old miser kept a tame jackdaw, that used to steal pieces of money, and hide them in a hole, which a cat observing, asked, "Why he would hoard up those round shining things that he could make no use of?" "Why," said the jackdaw, "my master has a whole chestfull, and makes no more use of them that I do." -Jonathan Swift, satirist (1667-1745) From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Sun Jul 31 19:19:05 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Sun Jul 31 19:19:07 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: fast keyboard logging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, and is this because Cmd-G is 'Fing Again' on the edit menu? On 1/8/05 12:17 am, "David Ferrington" <2E0XDF@Alphadene.co.uk> sent: > According to the manual, in MLDX: > > Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: > 1 Enter call. > 2 Hit return (this does a lookup). > 3 Hit G this logs the call and highlights call text. > 4 Ready for 1 again. > > ? K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to the > Call Sign field. > ? Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered across > sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found in a look > up. > > > As far as I can see, Cmd-G does not log the QSO or highlight the call ready > for next entry? Cmd-Shift-L does do that. > Using Cmd-return would be even better for step 3 (imho) > -- Being a System Administrator is like being a plumber. If you do a good job, nobody knows. If you screw up, everybody gets covered in s**t! From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Sun Jul 31 19:20:28 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Sun Jul 31 19:20:31 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerContest Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > Ok, so I'm assuming STX is the sent serial number and SRX is > received serial > number. > Since you have 'RST S' and 'RST R', would it not be more consistent > to have > 'SNo S' and 'SNo R' or perhaps 'Ser S' and 'Ser R' ? Perhaps, but they are named after the ADIF specification keywords. > Also, since in most contests (limited number I've seen anyway), the > RST both > sent and received is nearly always 59, would it not be possible to > tab from > call, directly to 'SRX'? For contesters, but not for anyone actually interested in giving and receiving an honest signal report. > These normally being the only 2 fields required if everything else > is filled > in from previous values or radio. > This may either require a change of field position or perhaps an > option to > change tab order? Which Mac applications have you seen with a Tab Order Editor built in ? > I'm assuming STX is sent serial number, but this does not appear to > increase > with each logged QSO, can you increment the number after a QSO is > logged, so > its there ready to tell the contact what the number is? > Even better, provide a popup with this number in large letters so > its easy > to read off, or perhaps embolden the number. > > Also, looks to me like you add additional leading zeros if I enter > 001 as > the first number, but 6 digits is too wide for the field to display? 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From jbastin at sssnet.com Sun Jul 31 20:54:50 2005 From: jbastin at sssnet.com (John E Bastin) Date: Sun Jul 31 20:54:59 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerContest Digest, Vol 4, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <083b6b903838bb59950b654381d66296@sssnet.com> On Jul 31, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Don Agro wrote: >> These normally being the only 2 fields required if everything else is >> filled >> in from previous values or radio. >> This may either require a change of field position or perhaps an >> option to >> change tab order? > > Which Mac applications have you seen with a Tab Order Editor built in ? There may be others, the one I have personal experience with is FileMaker Pro. Tab from field to field, and you can manually select the tab order of the fields. 73, John E Bastin, K8AJS jbastin@sssnet.com http://www.qsl.net/k8ajs/ From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Sun Jul 31 22:19:13 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Sun Jul 31 22:19:17 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] fast keyboard logging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4544A297-9B59-4D2D-A4EA-E7824C5A838E@dogparksoftware.com> Hi David, On 31-Jul-05, at 7:17 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > According to the manual, in MLDX: > > Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: > 1 Enter call. > 2 Hit return (this does a lookup). > 3 Hit G this logs the call and highlights call text. > 4 Ready for 1 again. > > ? K clears all the fields and repositions the > cursor to > the Call Sign field. > ? Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered > across > sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found > in a look > up. > > > As far as I can see, Cmd-G does not log the QSO or highlight the > call ready > for next entry? Cmd-Shift-L does do that. That was an error in the manual. It's L and has been fixed... > Using Cmd-return would be even better for step 3 (imho) I don't see how. L for Lookup, L for Log is easier to remember and makes more sense. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Sun Jul 31 22:21:34 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Sun Jul 31 22:21:39 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: fast keyboard logging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <543BA6AB-5CCB-4841-9992-96E8780434A4@dogparksoftware.com> Hi David, On 31-Jul-05, at 7:19 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > Oh, and is this because Cmd-G is 'Fing Again' on the edit menu? That is what prompted the change some time ago. G is almost universally "Find Again" on a Mac. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Aug 1 09:22:45 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Aug 1 09:22:48 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] MacLoggerDX Auto-Increment STX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi David, On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > I'm assuming STX is sent serial number, but this does not appear to > increase > with each logged QSO, can you increment the number after a QSO is > logged, so > its there ready to tell the contact what the number is? Auto Increment of STX has been a feature in MacLoggerDX since May of 2003. "The Inc STX checkbox will allow contesters to autoincrement the numeric STX log field after each QSO logged, from any arbitrary start point entered." 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Aug 1 10:10:37 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Aug 1 10:10:41 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] MacLoggerDX Tab Order In-Reply-To: <083b6b903838bb59950b654381d66296@sssnet.com> References: <083b6b903838bb59950b654381d66296@sssnet.com> Message-ID: Hi John, On 31-Jul-05, at 8:54 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > There may be others, the one I have personal experience with is > FileMaker Pro. Tab from field to field, and you can manually select > the tab order of the fields. Last time I checked FileMakerPro retailed for about $299.00 :) According the Macintosh User Interface Guidelines... "Tab In text-oriented applications, the Tab key moves the insertion point to the next tab stop. In other contexts, Tab is a signal to proceed; it means ?move to the next item in a sequence.? The next item can be a table cell or a dialog text field. Shift-Tab navigates in the reverse direction. Pressing Tab can cause data to be entered before focus moves to the next item." To alter the spatial order of the Tab sequence is technically possible but very poor design. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Mon Aug 1 13:11:16 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Mon Aug 1 13:11:21 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX Auto-Increment STX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So it does, my apologies. I missed that. I do find that the first STX field is not wide enough to display 5 digits On 1/8/05 2:22 pm, "Don Agro" sent: > Hi David, > > On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > >> I'm assuming STX is sent serial number, but this does not appear to >> increase >> with each logged QSO, can you increment the number after a QSO is >> logged, so >> its there ready to tell the contact what the number is? > > Auto Increment of STX has been a feature in MacLoggerDX since May of > 2003. > > preferencespanel.html> > > "The Inc STX checkbox will allow contesters to autoincrement the > numeric STX log field after each QSO logged, from any arbitrary start > point entered." > > > > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > -- Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each other at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Mon Aug 1 13:24:35 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Mon Aug 1 13:24:38 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My intention was to reduce the number of keystrokes necessary to log the QSO, especially to avoid multiple key presses that might result in 'over-shooting' the the SRX field. 6 tabs before I can enter the received serial number just seamed a lot. Realise I'm asking for things that are probably not of great import to a DX'er, but in a contest, they would help and I was hoping to use MLDX for contests. Does anyone know of simple programmable function key software that could send a program 6 tabs? So I press F1 and it sends 6 tab characters. On 1/8/05 2:32 pm, "Don Agro" sent: > Hi David, > > On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > >> Also, since in most contests (limited number I've seen anyway), the >> RST both >> sent and received is nearly always 59, would it not be possible to >> tab from >> call, directly to 'SRX'? > > I really don't see this as a problem since the RST Sent, RST Received > (and Power) fields 'remember' the last entry across exchanges - you > don't have to enter the data each time - just tab by them if you > aren't interested in sending/receiving a valid signal report. > > If you remember to turn on Auto Increment of STX you are talking > about 3 or 4 tabs - so I just don't see the problem you are trying to > fix here. > > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > -- I never did a day's work in my life; it was all fun. -Thomas Edison From publitek at mac.com Mon Aug 1 13:59:22 2005 From: publitek at mac.com (Bob Jones) Date: Mon Aug 1 13:59:24 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> Don this sounds like a neat solution. Could you create scripts like this? F1: six tabs to get to the SRX field. F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return cursor to blank callsign field. This would really make MLDX a very useful general purpose contest program too without any impact on DXers. Best regards Bob, G3YIQ The Old Vicarage Bradford-on-Avon Wiltshire BA15 2SB M: 07802 956179 On 1 Aug 2005, at 18:24, David Ferrington wrote: > My intention was to reduce the number of keystrokes necessary to log > the > QSO, especially to avoid multiple key presses that might result in > 'over-shooting' the the SRX field. 6 tabs before I can enter the > received > serial number just seamed a lot. > > Realise I'm asking for things that are probably not of great import to > a > DX'er, but in a contest, they would help and I was hoping to use MLDX > for > contests. > > Does anyone know of simple programmable function key software that > could > send a program 6 tabs? So I press F1 and it sends 6 tab characters. > > > On 1/8/05 2:32 pm, "Don Agro" sent: > >> Hi David, >> >> On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: >> >>> Also, since in most contests (limited number I've seen anyway), the >>> RST both >>> sent and received is nearly always 59, would it not be possible to >>> tab from >>> call, directly to 'SRX'? >> >> I really don't see this as a problem since the RST Sent, RST Received >> (and Power) fields 'remember' the last entry across exchanges - you >> don't have to enter the data each time - just tab by them if you >> aren't interested in sending/receiving a valid signal report. >> >> If you remember to turn on Auto Increment of STX you are talking >> about 3 or 4 tabs - so I just don't see the problem you are trying to >> fix here. >> >> >> 73 Don Agro VE3VRW >> >> D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . >> >> email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com >> www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com >> iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com >> > > -- > I never did a day's work in my life; it was all fun. -Thomas Edison > > _______________________________________________ > MacLoggerContest mailing list > MacLoggerContest@dogparksoftware.com > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/macloggercontest/attachments/20050801/88a20b5e/attachment-0001.bin From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Aug 1 15:42:37 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Aug 1 15:42:41 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > Don > > this sounds like a neat solution. Could you create scripts like this? > > F1: six tabs to get to the SRX field. > F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return > cursor to blank callsign field. This functionality is built into OS 9 ... On OS X you can use David Starks freeware XKeys It will run any AppleScript from a function key. or Spark... > This would really make MLDX a very useful general purpose contest > program too without any impact on DXers. It is now :) 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Aug 1 16:37:38 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Aug 1 16:37:42 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> Message-ID: <39C72FC0-5BE8-4443-9182-0F080245E221@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Bob, On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > this sounds like a neat solution. Could you create scripts like this? > F1: six tabs to get to the SRX field. Here is the AppleScript to send 6 tabs to MLDX... ------------------------------------------------- tell application "MacLoggerDX" activate tell application "System Events" key code 48 key code 48 key code 48 key code 48 key code 48 key code 48 end tell end tell ------------------------------------------------ 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Mon Aug 1 17:13:55 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Mon Aug 1 17:13:59 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Spark looks quite good, taking a bit of time to figure this out, doesn't appear to be a manual or any help (help doesn't pop up) But I have got it moving 6 tabs with a press of F1 so a look up, followed by 6 tabs should be possible I had a nasty experience with the original version of X-keys, so my not try that On 1/8/05 8:42 pm, "Don Agro" sent: > Hi Bob, > > On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > >> Don >> >> this sounds like a neat solution. Could you create scripts like this? >> >> F1: six tabs to get to the SRX field. >> F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return >> cursor to blank callsign field. > > This functionality is built into OS 9 ... > > getting_the_most_from_your_function_keys/> > > On OS X you can use David Starks freeware XKeys > > > > It will run any AppleScript from a function key. > > or Spark... > > > >> This would really make MLDX a very useful general purpose contest >> program too without any impact on DXers. > > It is now :) > > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > -- Cats know exactly how we feel. They don't give a damn? but they know. From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Mon Aug 1 17:29:36 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Mon Aug 1 17:29:39 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2CEBB57F-AA8A-47C6-8317-C53020FD464F@dogparksoftware.com> Hi David, On 1-Aug-05, at 5:13 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > I had a nasty experience with the original version of X-keys, so my > not try > that I have XKeys running here no problem. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Mon Aug 1 20:08:48 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Mon Aug 1 20:08:52 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: <2CEBB57F-AA8A-47C6-8317-C53020FD464F@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: Well, I've tried both Spark and XKeys now and spark appears to process the apple script about twice as fast. So, apart from not having a sub-menu system (which I don't think I need), I think I'll go with spark for the moment. When I get a script done that looks up call and moves to SRX field and one to log it, clear etc and go back to call field, I'll post them to you. On 1/8/05 10:29 pm, "Don Agro" sent: > Hi David, > > On 1-Aug-05, at 5:13 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > >> I had a nasty experience with the original version of X-keys, so my >> not try >> that > > I have XKeys running here no problem. > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > -- Write the bad things that are done to you in the sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble. -Arabian wisdom From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Tue Aug 2 05:29:45 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Tue Aug 2 05:29:52 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return > cursor to blank callsign field. Here is the AppleScript to do this... ----------------------------------------------------- tell application "MacLoggerDX" activate make new record at end ClearLogFields end tell ----------------------------------------------------- 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Tue Aug 2 06:25:44 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Tue Aug 2 06:25:51 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX signal reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great, thanks Don Brilliant as always. On 2/8/05 10:29 am, "Don Agro" sent: > Hi Bob, > > On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > >> F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return >> cursor to blank callsign field. > > Here is the AppleScript to do this... > > ----------------------------------------------------- > tell application "MacLoggerDX" > activate > make new record at end > ClearLogFields > end tell > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 73 Don Agro VE3VRW > > D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . > > email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com > www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com > iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com > -- There is a coherent plan in the universe, though I don't know what it is a plan for. - Fred Hoyle From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Tue Aug 2 06:26:19 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Tue Aug 2 06:26:22 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] STXn too narrow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi David, On 31-Jul-05, at 7:10 PM, David Ferrington wrote: > Also, looks to me like you add additional leading zeros if I enter > 001 as > the first number, but 6 digits is too wide for the field to display? Oops ! (It's 5 digits actually - but you are correct - the display was too narrow) Fixed in 4.1.1b21 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From g0dvj at amsat.org Tue Aug 2 14:17:27 2005 From: g0dvj at amsat.org (Jonathan G0DVJ) Date: Tue Aug 2 14:17:36 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> Hi Don, & others for comment/info On Aug 2, 2005, at 1:23 pm, Don Agro wrote: > I am still not sure who is using the string srx and stx fields - and > for what - so I will leave them there for now. Yes please leave them. There are many variants of exchange used in contest logging and whilst you provide dedicated fields for most of them, it is currently not practical to TAB to the correct one in each event to enter the extra data beyond RST and Serial Number. These string fields provide a standard place to put much of the additional exchange data if we can't get to the dedicated provided field. I presume that clever people will be able to set up scripts similar to those you have already published in order to program whatever TAB order is required for different events. (I am sure there must be a more Mac UI-like approach to doing this than writing and executing applescript in conjunction with the 3rd party Function Key assignment utilities!) Unfortunately for those of us who use an Apple laptops in the shack, the function keys are already set to do Apple Hardware things such as Screen Brightness, Sound volume, num lock, Keyboard backlighting etc. and using Fn plus an F-key is not really easy. So the recent scripting on F keys is not all that helpful in my case, but glad it's helping you other guys! Maybe I should use an external keyboard in the shack plugged into the Powerbook! Getting back to events, exchanges and hence TAB order requirements (and the dilemma of using string rx / tx or the dedicated fields provided), I offer the following partial analysis for some major events and ones that I would use a contest logger for: Event Exchange CQ WW RST, CQ zone CQ WPX RST, Serial number ARRL DX RST, Power OR RST, State/Province (US/Canada) IOTA RST, Serial number, IOTA ref (if Island stn) * IARU HF Champ RST, ITU zone OR RST, HQ Soc Initials (HQ stations) IARU HF FD RST, serial number * WAE DX RST, serial number, QTCs (sometimes!) Euro Sprints Serial number, first name of operator SP DX RST, serial number OR RST, Polish Area (single letter code) HA DX RST, serial number OR RST, HA County Code (2 letters) or HADXC number * LZ Open DX Serial number, serial number received from previous QSO station ON UBA RST, serial number, Belgian province code - 2 letters (if Belgian station) PACC DX RST, serial number, Dutch province code - 2 letters (if Dutch station) * All Asian DX RST, Age of operator TOEC WW Grid RST, 4 char Grid (e.g. JO02) RSGB 21/28, 1.8 RST, serial number, UK district (if UK station) RSGB 80m CC, AFS RST, serial number * RSGB Club Calls RST, serial number, club membership status, club name. * RSGB RoPoCo RST, postcode received from previous QSO station VHF/UHF EU AC RST, serial number, 6 char grid (e.g. JO02PB) VHF Trophy/BP/LP RST, serial number, 6 char grid, UK district (if UK station) I am sure that US list members could equally provide details of their fave QSO party events too where the exchange is different to those already included above. We can see from the above that in only 6 (marked *) out of 21 samples (representing nearer 30 contests), there is no dedicated field that makes semantic sense provided for the information to be recorded. Note that these samples are somewhat construed deliberately by me to test a whole range of events requiring various exchange data. In the case of WAE DX, the QTCs are a fairly special case in that they cannot easily be recorded in any other misc field (either STR RX or notes etc.) to the extent that many entrants use pen and paper next to the PC to record these in this event. I know of only one specialist logger which has the QTC facility. In the other 5 marked *, the STR RX or notes field could be used. The variability of TAB required to put the various data into the dedicated fields provided is somewhat more complicated!!! But I daresay it could be done and the various TAB scripts named according to the event name and supplied in a scripts folder with the program. In counting these I have assumed that for the national contest examples (SP, HA, LZ, ON, PACC etc.) the codes for province/area/district codes could be put into the State or County fields provided. With about 10 auto-TAB scripts, many of the most popular events would be covered. The big question is whether having entered this information into whatever fields, a utility (perhaps such as Scott's CabConverter or similar) could extract (only) the required data to construct a cabrillo file which the contest adjudicators in each case expect to receive. At some level, for this to fly, some information about specific events or at least event types needs to be accommodated. This could conceptually be done in MLDX itself or in a post-contest event utility program. Also allowing the CW keyer to auto-send the contents of particular fields like STR TX would be very useful (i.e. extending the existing @variables with @STXn, @STR TX, @GRID etc. Anyway - an exercise in information provision or thought provocation - hope I haven't bored too many of you! 73, Jonathan G0DVJ -- From bsandersen at mac.com Tue Aug 2 14:22:27 2005 From: bsandersen at mac.com (Scott Andersen) Date: Tue Aug 2 14:23:24 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> Message-ID: <46D45C63-D26D-43D4-A911-1E870CF4C792@mac.com> On Aug 2, 2005, at 2:17 PM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > > The big question is whether having entered this information into > whatever fields, > a utility (perhaps such as Scott's CabConverter or similar) could > extract (only) > the required data to construct a cabrillo file which the contest > adjudicators > in each case expect to receive. At some level, for this to fly, > some information > about specific events or at least event types needs to be > accommodated. This could > conceptually be done in MLDX itself or in a post-contest event > utility program. The Cab-Converter program has documentation for each contest (or, at least _will_ have documentation for each contest) describing what information from the exchange needs to be captured and where it should be put. I think you'll see that in the first few contests I've documented in the current bundle. While I could always brain-storm more ways MLDX could somehow help with this, isn't it true that the current fields, along with a healthy Cab-converter, are sufficient? (It has been for me...) -- Scott (NE1RD) B. Scott Andersen | "Magic is real, unless declared integer." bsandersen@mac.com | -- The collected sayings of Wiz Zumwalt Acton, Massachusetts | Ham: NE1RD, QRP ARCI#11588, FP#-910 From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Tue Aug 2 14:48:14 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Tue Aug 2 14:48:17 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> Message-ID: <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Jonathan, On 2-Aug-05, at 2:17 PM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > Hi Don, & others for comment/info > > On Aug 2, 2005, at 1:23 pm, Don Agro wrote: > > > >> I am still not sure who is using the string srx and stx fields - >> and for what - so I will leave them there for now. >> >> > > Yes please leave them. There are many variants of exchange used > in contest logging and whilst you provide dedicated fields for most > of them, it is currently not practical to TAB to the correct one in > each event to enter the extra data beyond RST and Serial Number. > These string fields provide a standard place to put much of the > additional exchange data if we can't get to the dedicated provided > field. > > OK will do. > I presume that clever people will be able to set up scripts similar > to those you have already published in order to program whatever > TAB order is required for different events. (I am sure there must > be a more Mac UI-like approach to doing this than writing and > executing applescript in conjunction with the 3rd party Function > Key assignment utilities!) > > There is absolutely nothing un-Mac-like about using function keys for combining actions or customizing software - that's what they are for. > Unfortunately for those of us who use an Apple laptops in the > shack, the function keys are already set to do Apple Hardware > things such as Screen Brightness, Sound volume, num lock, Keyboard > backlighting etc. > > Not is simply not true. The System Preferences/Keyboard/"Use the F1- F12 ..." checkbox allows you to use the PowerBook's function keys. Just tried it here with XKeys works fine. > and using Fn plus an F-key is not really easy. > > Nor is it necessary. > So the recent scripting on F keys is not all that helpful in my case, > > Actually, if you click that checkbox it would be :) 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Tue Aug 2 16:56:20 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Tue Aug 2 16:56:25 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Function keys In-Reply-To: <20050802181739.0605D5740C@seven.pairlist.net> Message-ID: On 2/8/05 7:17 pm, "macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com" sent: > and using Fn plus an F-key is not really easy. So the recent scripting > on F keys is not all that helpful in my case, but glad it's helping you > other guys! Maybe I should use an external keyboard in the shack > plugged into the Powerbook! Spark lets you use any combination of keys for an event, not just function keys, but cmd, shift etc. -- Being a System Administrator is like being a plumber. If you do a good job, nobody knows. If you screw up, everybody gets covered in s**t! From g0dvj at amsat.org Tue Aug 2 19:30:49 2005 From: g0dvj at amsat.org (Jonathan G0DVJ) Date: Tue Aug 2 19:30:54 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2005, at 7:48 pm, Don Agro wrote: > >> I presume that clever people will be able to set up scripts similar >> to those you have already published in order to program whatever TAB >> order is required for different events. (I am sure there must be a >> more Mac UI-like approach to doing this than writing and executing >> applescript in conjunction with the 3rd party Function Key assignment >> utilities!) > > There is absolutely nothing un-Mac-like about using function keys for > combining actions or customizing software - that's what they are for. Agreed - however my words were "writing applescript code" to TAB between fields! Anyway lets not bicker about it - Note the exclamation mark on my original sentence. :) >> Unfortunately for those of us who use an Apple laptops in the shack, >> the function keys are already set to do Apple Hardware things such as >> Screen Brightness, Sound volume, num lock, Keyboard backlighting etc. > > Not is simply not true. The System Preferences/Keyboard/"Use the > F1-F12 ..." checkbox allows you to use the PowerBook's function keys. Thanks for the education! I really have missed this one! I have never found that checkbox before but it's exactly what I need for other software too. I will bother to download XKeys now :) 73, Jonathan G0DVJ -- From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Tue Aug 2 21:18:13 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Tue Aug 2 21:18:16 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Jonathan, On 2-Aug-05, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > Agreed - however my words were "writing applescript code" to TAB > between fields! Anyway lets not bicker about it - Note the > exclamation mark on my original sentence. :) Sorry, I didn't think I was bickering - just correcting an error. Your exact words were "(I am sure there must be a more Mac UI-like approach to doing this than writing and executing applescript in conjunction with the 3rd party Function Key assignment utilities!)" I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement - or I wouldn't have spent the last 2 days making it possible for customers who have requested to be able to write AppleScript code in conjunction with the 3rd party Function Key assignment utilities to do so. The request I was responding to (and one I agree with completely) was... On 1-Aug-05, at 1:59 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > this sounds like a neat solution. Could you create scripts like this? > > F1: six tabs to get to the SRX field. > F2: log QSO, clear fields (except STX and RST fields) and return > cursor to blank callsign field. > > This would really make MLDX a very useful general purpose contest > program too without any impact on DXers. With a little extra work we now only need one tab - but as I have found out to my dismay time and time again - what pleases one contester pleases no other. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From g0dvj at amsat.org Wed Aug 3 03:33:15 2005 From: g0dvj at amsat.org (Jonathan G0DVJ) Date: Wed Aug 3 03:33:25 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:18 am, Don Agro wrote: > With a little extra work we now only need one tab - but as I have > found out to my dismay time and time again - what pleases one > contester pleases no other. OK I am correcting an error this time! What pleased one contester pleased many others including me! If this is aimed at me then I never said I wasn't pleased - nor implied that your effort to help us awful bunch of contesters at every step was anything but appreciated. It may be surprising but I am a dx-er sometimes and a contester at other times. I am sure I am not the only one - contesters are not some separate species - nor do I or many other customers warrant such a generalisation. The enhancements you make to MLDX are great on both counts. Thanks for all of them, both those which help with Dx-ing and those which assist contesting, or in many cases both. Apologies for the bandwidth folks - - I prefer to get on with trying to suggest ways to make this software an even more insanely great logging program. Jonathan G0DVJ -- From 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk Wed Aug 3 05:35:57 2005 From: 2E0XDF at Alphadene.co.uk (David Ferrington) Date: Wed Aug 3 05:53:53 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] One tab to RTXn In-Reply-To: <20050803073321.4112E57282@seven.pairlist.net> Message-ID: On 3/8/05 8:33 am, "macloggercontest-request@dogparksoftware.com" sent: > > With a little extra work we now only need one tab - but as I have > found out to my dismay time and time again - what pleases one > contester pleases no other. Don, if you want to move the STXn & RTXn fields back to where they were, this will be no problem to those of us that will use 6 tabs via a function key to get to them. 1 tab or 6 is no time difference and the only inconvenience would be it not being directly in my line of sight as I look for them, but that is very minor and I'm sure would become second nature to look in right place. Thanks for your efforts on this, I'm sure we really do appreciate the time and effort involved and your superb support as always. -- 73s 2E0XDF -- God could not be everywhere, and therefore he created mothers. -Jewish proverb From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 07:36:43 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Wed Aug 3 07:36:49 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> Message-ID: <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Jonathan, On 3-Aug-05, at 3:33 AM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:18 am, Don Agro wrote: > >> With a little extra work we now only need one tab - but as I have >> found out to my dismay time and time again - what pleases one >> contester pleases no other. > > OK I am correcting an error this time! What pleased one > contester pleased many others including me! > If this is aimed at me then I never said I wasn't pleased - nor > implied that your effort to help us awful bunch of contesters at > every step was anything but appreciated. It may be surprising but > I am a dx-er sometimes and a contester at other times. I am sure I > am not the only one - contesters are not some separate species - > nor do I or many other customers warrant such a generalisation. > The enhancements you make to MLDX are great on both counts. Thanks > for all of them, both those which help with Dx-ing and those which > assist contesting, or in many cases both. > > Apologies for the bandwidth folks - me)> - I prefer to get on with trying to suggest ways to make this > software an even more insanely great logging program. I hope your sarcasm "awful bunch of contesters" was intended to be humorous :) There are a lot of conflicting opinions and requests coming through this reflector - you know yourself since you tried unsuccessfully to get a consensus on a number of issues here, and your help in this regard was/is appreciated. Please don't apologize for the bandwidth Jonathan or discontinue your comments - this thread is obviously about an important issue since it comes up time and time again, and I for one would like to 'get it right' this time. According to the subject line it is about Tab Order in MLDX and how to optimize it for contesting without negative impact to other users. We have also been discussing Function Key/AppleScript customization of MLDX data entry. You rejected the function key solution presented because you thought it wouldn't work on a powerbook and proceeded to offer your analysis of several contests and your view of tab-order and new fields requirements. This is useful analysis but takes us back to first principles and implies that we might need more fields. This implication was rebutted by Scott Andersen who has suggested that the fields are more than sufficient as they stand... On 2-Aug-05, at 2:22 PM, Scott Andersen wrote: > The Cab-Converter program has documentation for each contest (or, > at least > _will_ have documentation for each contest) describing what > information > from the exchange needs to be captured and where it should be put. > I think > you'll see that in the first few contests I've documented in the > current > bundle. > > While I could always brain-storm more ways MLDX could somehow help > with this, isn't it true that the current fields, along with a > healthy Cab-converter, are sufficient? (It has been for me...) I value your input and am requesting that you give us your views on the solutions being discussed/developed rather than returning to first principles. If there is something about the Function Key/AppleScript solutions being offered that bothers you, please let us know what it is. I like the direction of this solution because it enables users with specialized requirements to customize the software and I just plain like the smell of that without having thought through all the implications. I am also finding out from those who are writing the scripts that there are bugs that need fixing and enhancements required in the scripting functions in MLDX but this is worthwhile work and will pay dividends. Somewhere along the line the assumption was made (and I agree) that short of developing a UI designer for MLDX, some re-arrangement of the fields and use of AppleScript/Function Keys could benefit contesters without harming non-contest use. Where we stand with 4.1.1b25 is that this somewhat optimized sequence (without using AppleScript or Function Keys) is now possible where it wasn't before... Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: 1. Enter call. 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. STX auto-increments (set in Prefs Panel) 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights call text. 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. * Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered across sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found in a look up. The reason that I am doggedly sticking to this thread is simply that I would like to get this nailed down for release in v4.1.1 since UI changes to the main screen affect the whole manual. Thanks for your help on this Jonathan. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 07:37:31 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Wed Aug 3 07:37:35 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] One tab to RTXn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <525B0592-A583-4CA3-A697-298DD2911857@dogparksoftware.com> Hi David, On 3-Aug-05, at 5:35 AM, David Ferrington wrote: >> With a little extra work we now only need one tab - but as I have >> found out to my dismay time and time again - what pleases one >> contester pleases no other. > > Don, if you want to move the STXn & RTXn fields back to where they > were, > this will be no problem to those of us that will use 6 tabs via a > function > key to get to them. 1 tab or 6 is no time difference and the only > inconvenience would be it not being directly in my line of sight as > I look > for them, but that is very minor and I'm sure would become second > nature to > look in right place. There is another mode I was thinking of and that is without the function keys we have something like this... Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: 1. Enter call. 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. STX auto-increments (set in Prefs Panel) 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights call text. 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. * Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered across sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found in a look up. > Thanks for your efforts on this, I'm sure we really do appreciate > the time > and effort involved and your superb support as always. You are welcome David. Tone does not always come across correctly in email - I am not angry or upset - just struggling to arrive at the optimum solution for all the users. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 10:59:07 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Wed Aug 3 10:59:10 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <4D805D15-4A30-4432-94C3-1B0B4C423132@kc1xx.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <4D805D15-4A30-4432-94C3-1B0B4C423132@kc1xx.com> Message-ID: <7FD271AE-FD91-4498-AF55-7356051D0E64@dogparksoftware.com> Hi Bill, On 3-Aug-05, at 10:16 AM, Bill Myers wrote: > On 2005 Aug 03, at 07:36, Don Agro wrote: >> 1. Enter call. >> 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). >> 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. STX auto-increments (set >> in Prefs Panel) >> 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights >> call text. >> 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor >> to the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. > > Hi Don, > > I appreciate the effort you're making to satisfy a tiny niche > (contesters) in a small market :-) > > Regarding the optimized sequence; I *think* (without actually > trying it), that it might be better to auto-increment STX on > L rather than on . I can see myself > inadvertently changing the serial number without logging a QSO... Sorry Bill - I didn't describe that well enough - it *is* the Log action which increments STX. I have changed the Manual text to read... Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: 1. Enter call. 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights call text. STX auto-increments (set in Prefs Panel). 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. > This week I got documentation from Jozef for the microKEYER API. > Do you have any interest in adding support for that device to MLDX? Yes, Jozef sent me the documentation and I will be supporting it. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From jbastin at sssnet.com Wed Aug 3 17:01:34 2005 From: jbastin at sssnet.com (John E Bastin) Date: Wed Aug 3 17:01:41 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2005, at 7:36 AM, Don Agro wrote: > Where we stand with 4.1.1b25 is that this somewhat optimized > sequence (without using AppleScript or Function Keys) is now > possible where it wasn't before... > > controlwindow.html> > At the risk of further muddying the waters of desired/needed functions in a contest program, here's what I'm used to working with in a contest program: > > Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: Faster logging > sequence: > > 1. Enter call. 1. Enter call > (progressive display of similar > calls in SuperCheck Partial window as call is entered - dupes are displayed in red) > 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). 2. Hit return (does a > dupe check, if a dupe, displays > time and sequence number of previous contact), moves to SRX numeric (ONE keypress, not two) > 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. STX auto-increments (set > in Prefs Panel) > (this all happens with the keypress) After entering the SRX info, hitting again (when the cursor is NOT in the callsign field) logs the QSO, blanks the callsign and SRX fields, moves the cursor to the callsign field ready for the next callsign entry. > 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights call > text. > This takes two hands to accomplish, far too cumbersome if you're working for rate. > 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor > to the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. > This is four keypresses to accomplish what I normally do in two - adds at least a few seconds to each contact. > > * Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered > across sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not > found in a look up. > What I've described is what normally happens when I'm sitting on a frequency calling CQ. If I'm S&P'ing I'm then using different (single) function keys instead of the key, but there is still only two keypresses per contact outside of entering exchange data. In addition to the logging functions, if this is a CW or RTTY contest the computer is sending the exchange information at the same time. > > The reason that I am doggedly sticking to this thread is simply > that I would like to get this nailed down for release in v4.1.1 > since UI changes to the main screen affect the whole manual. > I'm assuming that this discussion is aiming at ultimately producing a contest logging program for the Mac, and not just contest enhancements to MacLoggerDX. MacLoggerDX is a great DX logging and record-keeping program, and I think Don would agree that it is a very complex package, both from the user's and from the programmer's point of view. Contest logging programs are equally complex programs in their own right, if they are to be able to do everything that contesters demand and still maintain a premium on doing everything in a minimum amount of time. Due to this complexity, I think that efforts to make MacLoggerDX into a contesting program would not contribute to its present function, and would produce a sub-optimal contest program at best. The contest logging program needs to be a stand-alone design, with features that enhance contesting at the forefront. After the contest is over, ADIF the contest log to MacLoggerDX for the rest of the work, DX record keeping, QSLing and the like. I would like nothing better than to be able to put a Mac back in the shack for contesting as well as normal logging. I don't consider myself a top contester by any stretch of the imagination, but I have pushed my present contesting program to QSO rates of 150-per-hour, and the software is really capable of a lot more than that if I was better at it. Maybe it's farther than this discussion is aiming, but that's my target. Until a contesting program for the Mac gets to that point, I've got a PC in the shack. Use the best tools for the job you need done. Best wishes to all and keep this effort alive, John E Bastin, K8AJS jbastin@sssnet.com http://www.qsl.net/k8ajs/ From g0dvj at amsat.org Wed Aug 3 17:34:04 2005 From: g0dvj at amsat.org (Jonathan G0DVJ) Date: Wed Aug 3 17:34:08 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <87ca4e7ff69efafadb9ebdb6ba5d7866@amsat.org> On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:36 pm, Don Agro wrote: > According to the subject line it is about Tab Order in MLDX and how to > optimize it for contesting without negative impact to other users. We > have also been discussing Function Key/AppleScript customization of > MLDX data entry. > > You rejected the function key solution presented because you thought > it wouldn't work on a powerbook and proceeded to offer your analysis > of several contests and your view of tab-order and new fields > requirements. In a separate mail I quickly acknowledged that I had been mistaken in not knowing about the F key checkbox in Keyboard Prefs and thanked you for the education. > This is useful analysis but takes us back to first principles and > implies that we might need more fields. Sorry I didn't explain the reason for my analysis well enough. I didn't mean to take us back to first principles nor to imply that we need more fields. I was trying to ask whether the Function Key/Applescript idea being discussed (which I repeat I am also grateful for!) could be further extended to cover practically all the contests I showed in the analysis by customising further scripts to take the user to the fields (already provided sufficiently - I agree with Scott on this) required for various events in the best order. So to set up for a particular event which requires TABs to specific fields beyond just the RST/serial, one could just load particular scripts for that event (suitably named) and the F keys would provide the correct field positioning to complete the required remaining exchange! > This implication was rebutted by Scott Andersen who has suggested that > the fields are more than sufficient as they stand... As I already said above, I didn't mean that implication - hence I agree with Scott that existing fields are basically sufficient. I even summarised that with just a few more scripts, practically all the events listed in my analysis would be successfully accommodated. > On 2-Aug-05, at 2:22 PM, Scott Andersen wrote: > >> The Cab-Converter program has documentation for each contest (or, at >> least >> _will_ have documentation for each contest) describing what >> information >> from the exchange needs to be captured and where it should be put. >> While I could always brain-storm more ways MLDX could somehow help >> with this, isn't it true that the current fields, along with a >> healthy Cab-converter, are sufficient? (It has been for me...) Yes - Scott - I mentioned your Cab Converter as a positive thing of one solution which can do the valuable job of capturing the right data and putting it in the right place in the log entry - I was trying to give it a plug rather than to be negative. > I value your input and am requesting that you give us your views on > the solutions being discussed/developed rather than returning to first > principles. Already dealt with this above I think. Sorry my intentions before were not clearer. > If there is something about the Function Key/AppleScript solutions > being offered that bothers you, please let us know what it is. No honestly it's good ! Nothing bothers me about something that helps the solution. > Somewhere along the line the assumption was made (and I agree) that > short of developing a UI designer for MLDX, some re-arrangement of the > fields and use of AppleScript/Function Keys could benefit contesters > without harming non-contest use. Yes and I agree. I fully support the changes you have made to try and strike a balance. Again I had hoped my analysis might also offer some high level cross check of what optimum positioning together with the F Key TAB scripting approach would help support the major events. > Where we stand with 4.1.1b25 is that this somewhat optimized sequence > (without using AppleScript or Function Keys) is now possible where it > wasn't before... > > Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: > > 1. Enter call. > 2. Hit return (this does a lookup). > 3. One takes you to SRX numeric. STX auto-increments (set in > Prefs Panel) I was trying to suggest a possible 3a ... 3a Optionally perhaps with a further applescript, a suitable F Key could auto TAB to any additional field required for some events (e.g. a province/state code etc.) The actual script used could be different per event or not needed at all. ???? > 4. Hit L this logs the call and highlights call > text. > 5. K clears all the fields and repositions the cursor to > the Call Sign field. - Ready for 1 again. > > * Power, RST Sent, and RST Received fields are remembered across > sessions and not cleared since they are hand entered and not found in > a look up. > I hope I have managed to add to the thread topic with this posting rather than appear to be critical or negative (which was never my intention before either. :) BTW - was my suggestion of further @ variables for the keyer something that could be considered ? - i.e. which doesn't have negative impact on non-contest use of MLDX - the main one is @STX (the updating serial sent) - sorry if this is already available and its my ignorance getting in the way! I know the keyer variables was not the TAB order topic of the thread, but it is related to the fields that we have been discussing. 73, Jonathan G0DVJ -- From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 17:47:49 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Wed Aug 3 17:47:53 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <38C761EE-997B-4040-8147-1E5C0CCFBF9C@dogparksoftware.com> Hi John, On 3-Aug-05, at 5:01 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > At the risk of further muddying the waters of desired/needed > functions in a contest program, here's what I'm used to working > with in a contest program: > I'm assuming that this discussion is aiming at ultimately producing > a contest logging program for the Mac, and not just contest > enhancements to MacLoggerDX. This is an incorrect assumption. > MacLoggerDX is a great DX logging and record-keeping program, and I > think Don would agree that it is a very complex package, both from > the user's and from the programmer's point of view. No I would not agree. It is a very complex package from the programmer's point of view but not from the user's point of view. > Contest logging programs are equally complex programs in their own > right, if they are to be able to do everything that contesters > demand and still maintain a premium on doing everything in a > minimum amount of time. Due to this complexity, I think that > efforts to make MacLoggerDX into a contesting program would not > contribute to its present function, and would produce a sub-optimal > contest program at best. The contest logging program needs to be a > stand-alone design, with features that enhance contesting at the > forefront. Sorry John but I and many others disagree wholeheartedly with your assumption. MacLoggerDX can and is being used for contesting. > I would like nothing better than to be able to put a Mac back in > the shack for contesting as well as normal logging. I don't > consider myself a top contester by any stretch of the imagination, > but I have pushed my present contesting program to QSO rates of 150- > per-hour, and the software is really capable of a lot more than > that if I was better at it. > > Maybe it's farther than this discussion is aiming, but that's my > target. Until a contesting program for the Mac gets to that point, > I've got a PC in the shack. Use the best tools for the job you need > done. Have fun with the PC. There are a lot of people who do not accept this and have been working very hard to make MacLoggerDX a contesting program and are in fact using MacLoggerDX and Cab-Converter for contesting. I am sorry that you reject this option but it is very much alive and we have heard it can't be done before - this serves no purpose, it can and is being done. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 18:10:05 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Wed Aug 3 18:10:09 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <87ca4e7ff69efafadb9ebdb6ba5d7866@amsat.org> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <87ca4e7ff69efafadb9ebdb6ba5d7866@amsat.org> Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, On 3-Aug-05, at 5:34 PM, Jonathan G0DVJ wrote: > >> This is useful analysis but takes us back to first principles and >> implies that we might need more fields. > > Sorry I didn't explain the reason for my analysis well enough. I > didn't mean to take us back to first principles nor to imply that > we need more fields. > I was trying to ask whether the Function Key/Applescript idea being > discussed (which I repeat I am also grateful for!) could be further > extended to cover practically all the contests I showed in the > analysis by customising further scripts to take the user to the > fields (already provided sufficiently - I agree with Scott on this) > required for various events in the best order. > So to set up for a particular event which requires TABs to specific > fields beyond just the RST/serial, one could just load particular > scripts for that event (suitably named) and the F keys would > provide the correct field positioning to complete the required > remaining exchange! That would be nice but I can't really say where the AppleScripts will take us - I don't believe they will ever get us to the point of changing the UI automatically on a contest by contest basis but they can combine tasks and aid in data entry and provide some level of customization. People are coming up with things that I had never thought of - so while I am excited about the prospect, I don't think you will see an AppleScript that fully configures MLDX for a specific contest, I think you might get several scripts that will cover a variety of situations though. > I was trying to suggest a possible 3a ... > 3a Optionally perhaps with a further applescript, a suitable F Key > could auto TAB to any additional field required for some events > (e.g. a province/state code etc.) The actual script used could be > different per event or not needed at all. ???? Absolutely. > I hope I have managed to add to the thread topic with this posting Yes you have - as you always do. > BTW - was my suggestion of further @ variables for the keyer > something that could be considered ? - i.e. which doesn't have > negative impact on non-contest use of MLDX - the main one is @STX > (the updating serial sent) - sorry if this is already available and > its my ignorance getting in the way! I know the keyer variables > was not the TAB order topic of the thread, but it is related to > the fields that we have been discussing. Good idea. Have a look at v4.1.1b28 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From jbastin at sssnet.com Wed Aug 3 23:00:18 2005 From: jbastin at sssnet.com (John E Bastin) Date: Thu Aug 4 00:07:24 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <38C761EE-997B-4040-8147-1E5C0CCFBF9C@dogparksoftware.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <38C761EE-997B-4040-8147-1E5C0CCFBF9C@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <59E16926-2B81-460D-92E2-ECB6F58131FD@sssnet.com> On Aug 3, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Don Agro wrote: > Hi John, > > On 3-Aug-05, at 5:01 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > > >> At the risk of further muddying the waters of desired/needed >> functions in a contest program, here's what I'm used to working >> with in a contest program: >> > > > > >> I'm assuming that this discussion is aiming at ultimately >> producing a contest logging program for the Mac, and not just >> contest enhancements to MacLoggerDX. >> > > This is an incorrect assumption. OK, I stand corrected. > > >> MacLoggerDX is a great DX logging and record-keeping program, and >> I think Don would agree that it is a very complex package, both >> from the user's and from the programmer's point of view. >> > > No I would not agree. It is a very complex package from the > programmer's point of view but not from the user's point of view. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to point out. I didn't mean to imply that complexity for the user makes for a steep learning curve, but rather that the program is complex in the wide myriad of features that it offers. > > >> Contest logging programs are equally complex programs in their own >> right, if they are to be able to do everything that contesters >> demand and still maintain a premium on doing everything in a >> minimum amount of time. Due to this complexity, I think that >> efforts to make MacLoggerDX into a contesting program would not >> contribute to its present function, and would produce a sub- >> optimal contest program at best. The contest logging program needs >> to be a stand-alone design, with features that enhance contesting >> at the forefront. >> > > Sorry John but I and many others disagree wholeheartedly with your > assumption. MacLoggerDX can and is being used for contesting. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't being used for contesting. If you want to develop it for contesting and make it a full-fledged contesting program along with being the super DX logging and award record keeping program that it is, don't let me discourage you. My contention is that it would be easier to develop a high-end contesting program if you weren't trying to combine it with DX logging and award record-keeping all in the same package. It's your choice, though. If you want to tackle it that way, I'll be eagerly anticipating the result. > > >> I would like nothing better than to be able to put a Mac back in >> the shack for contesting as well as normal logging. I don't >> consider myself a top contester by any stretch of the imagination, >> but I have pushed my present contesting program to QSO rates of >> 150-per-hour, and the software is really capable of a lot more >> than that if I was better at it. >> >> Maybe it's farther than this discussion is aiming, but that's my >> target. Until a contesting program for the Mac gets to that point, >> I've got a PC in the shack. Use the best tools for the job you >> need done. >> > > Have fun with the PC. If I was "having fun with the PC" I wouldn't still be watching what is happening on the Mac side of the aisle. I want this effort to be successful, believe me. > > There are a lot of people who do not accept this and have been > working very hard to make MacLoggerDX a contesting program and are > in fact using MacLoggerDX and Cab-Converter for contesting. > > I am sorry that you reject this option I don't "reject" the option. Let's just say I'm skeptical at this time and would be very happy if you prove me wrong. > but it is very much alive and we have heard it can't be done before > - this serves no purpose, it can and is being done. I would never say anything "can't be done." I gave some opinions of how it can be done, you have different ideas of how it can be done. Whatever methods work the best, I'm sure it _can_ be done. I hope at some point to be able to enjoy the fruits of this project. 73, John E Bastin, K8AJS jbastin@sssnet.com http://www.qsl.net/k8ajs/ From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 23:23:42 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Thu Aug 4 00:08:16 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <59E16926-2B81-460D-92E2-ECB6F58131FD@sssnet.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <38C761EE-997B-4040-8147-1E5C0CCFBF9C@dogparksoftware.com> <59E16926-2B81-460D-92E2-ECB6F58131FD@sssnet.com> Message-ID: <6E807CBA-EF25-4CD6-B750-0572F04184F0@dogparksoftware.com> Hi John, On 3-Aug-05, at 11:00 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > I think you misunderstood what I was trying to point out. I didn't > mean to imply that complexity for the user makes for a steep > learning curve, but rather that the program is complex in the wide > myriad of features that it offers. OK, I understand. > My contention is that it would be easier to develop a high-end > contesting program if you weren't trying to combine it with DX > logging and award record-keeping all in the same package. It's your > choice, though. If you want to tackle it that way, I'll be eagerly > anticipating the result. I'm just trying to make MacLoggerDX more contester-friendly because I couldn't find 2 contesters who could agree on a spec for a Mac contesting program. > If I was "having fun with the PC" I wouldn't still be watching what > is happening on the Mac side of the aisle. I want this effort to be > successful, believe me. Which one - the effort your told us not to bother trying because it couldn't be done ? OK, but you do have an odd way of showing your support... > I don't "reject" the option. Let's just say I'm skeptical at this > time and would be very happy if you prove me wrong. Let's just say that the rest of us are a little busy trying to get the job done. > I would never say anything "can't be done." I gave some opinions of > how it can be done, Huh ? I'm sorry but you said... > "Due to this complexity, I think that efforts to make MacLoggerDX > into a contesting program would not contribute to its present > function, and would produce a sub-optimal contest program at best." Which part of this did you think we would find constructive ? > you have different ideas of how it can be done. No argument here. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Wed Aug 3 23:43:27 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Thu Aug 4 00:09:21 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <59E16926-2B81-460D-92E2-ECB6F58131FD@sssnet.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <38C761EE-997B-4040-8147-1E5C0CCFBF9C@dogparksoftware.com> <59E16926-2B81-460D-92E2-ECB6F58131FD@sssnet.com> Message-ID: <2CA3BA22-002F-4884-8485-C49A9B8B31CB@dogparksoftware.com> Hi John, On 3-Aug-05, at 11:00 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > I would never say anything "can't be done." I gave some opinions of > how it can be done, you have different ideas of how it can be done. I'm sorry, I missed those suggestions on how it could be done. I re- read you email and still couldn't find them. Could you run them by me again ? You didn't mean this bit did you ? > Due to this complexity, I think that efforts to make MacLoggerDX > into a contesting program would not contribute to its present > function, and would produce a sub-optimal contest program at best. > The contest logging program needs to be a stand-alone design, with > features that enhance contesting at the forefront. Thanks for sharing John but I've had this one from you before a number of times. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Thu Aug 4 00:24:02 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Thu Aug 4 00:24:05 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: Hi John, On 3-Aug-05, at 5:01 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > At the risk of further muddying the waters of desired/needed > functions in a contest program, here's what I'm used to working > with in a contest program: >> >> Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: Faster logging >> sequence: >> 1. Enter call. 1. Enter call >> (progressive display of similar > calls in > SuperCheck Partial window as call is > entered - dupes > are displayed in red) I keep scratching my head trying to figure out why you have forgotten about the Contest Helper window in MacLoggerDX ... ... which does all of the above. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From jbastin at sssnet.com Thu Aug 4 09:28:29 2005 From: jbastin at sssnet.com (John E Bastin) Date: Thu Aug 4 09:28:34 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> Message-ID: <6F742191-4CA0-4F96-921F-0D0ACDE3CAFB@sssnet.com> On Aug 4, 2005, at 12:24 AM, Don Agro wrote: > Hi John, > > On 3-Aug-05, at 5:01 PM, John E Bastin wrote: > > >> At the risk of further muddying the waters of desired/needed >> functions in a contest program, here's what I'm used to working >> with in a contest program: >> >>> >>> Fast Keyboard Logging for Contesters: Faster logging >>> sequence: >>> 1. Enter call. 1. Enter call >>> (progressive display of similar >>> >> calls in >> SuperCheck Partial window as call is >> entered - dupes >> are displayed in red) >> > > I keep scratching my head trying to figure out why you have > forgotten about the Contest Helper window in MacLoggerDX ... > > contesthelper.html> > > ... which does all of the above. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that. My point was that, considering the _whole sequence_ of the exchange (from which you took one line out of context), I'm used to doing the job with half the keypresses, therefore saving time for the entire exchange. 73, John E Bastin, K8AJS jbastin@sssnet.com http://www.qsl.net/k8ajs/ From dagro at dogparksoftware.com Thu Aug 4 10:13:32 2005 From: dagro at dogparksoftware.com (Don Agro) Date: Thu Aug 4 10:14:07 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] Re: MacLoggerDX tab order In-Reply-To: <6F742191-4CA0-4F96-921F-0D0ACDE3CAFB@sssnet.com> References: <32ca759b77795f20d91313e592750428@mac.com> <0b801b228cadbd0553bd5b7a50b2b748@mac.com> <933F58CC-3F4A-4099-BD72-28718F897828@dogparksoftware.com> <6320b9f61719df26a3eeaae801a28afd@amsat.org> <76FCF094-2A97-4467-94BC-0EFECBC145EA@dogparksoftware.com> <10120742-06EE-452E-995F-FF08A7E3A211@dogparksoftware.com> <1b7b3504a3e4f66367bd6369eaa22f91@amsat.org> <2909D991-C1E7-4437-A317-5ABF3C7AE32D@dogparksoftware.com> <6F742191-4CA0-4F96-921F-0D0ACDE3CAFB@sssnet.com> Message-ID: <01D18367-8F44-4013-8D13-4C1297D282C2@dogparksoftware.com> Hi John, On 4-Aug-05, at 9:28 AM, John E Bastin wrote: > I'm sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that. My point was that, > considering the _whole sequence_ of the exchange (from which you > took one line out of context), I'm used to doing the job with half > the keypresses, therefore saving time for the entire exchange. I understand. It's just very discouraging after having spent so much time adding contesting features to MacLoggerDX recently. But to be fair you couldn't be expected to be aware of those new features since you aren't really using the latest version MacLoggerDX. Once I figured that out it started to make more sense. Sorry for the confusion. 73 Don Agro VE3VRW D o g P a r k S o f t w a r e L t d . email: dagro@dogparksoftware.com www: http://www.dogparksoftware.com iChat AV:dogpark@mac.com From bsandersen at mac.com Thu Aug 4 11:30:21 2005 From: bsandersen at mac.com (Scott Andersen) Date: Thu Aug 4 11:30:31 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] No good deed goes unpunished Message-ID: <8C5E4710-3DFC-4D8E-AF2A-BD6C8251EEDB@mac.com> Fellow MacLoggerDX users: I've been watching the last batch of messages with some amount of dismay and trepidation. Don Argo's egalitarian approach to MLDX's design and the unprecedented access he gives to his users on this list, via email, via IM, and nearly any other means you can think of, has been abused, I think. To that point, I'd like to take a step back and make some observations and comments. 1. MacLoggerDX is a superior piece of software that any platform would be proud to have in its stable. MLDX isn't just a superior Macintosh program; it is a superior program to its competitors on other platforms as well. It is well organized, visually stunning, and, most importantly, rock-solid. I never worry I'm going to loose data when running it. 2. MacLoggerDX is a fine platform for all but the most hard-core contesters. I've spent many, perhaps too many, hours in front of the computer doing search-and-pounce and racking up points. My operating skill, propagation conditions, rudeness of the lids in the pile-up, all these things may have limited my success in the adventure. MLDX never has. 3. MacLoggerDX is not going to be the preferred logger for the DOS-loving, data-entry-centric, Windows is too slow for me, I've been doing it this way for years group of operators. This is not an opportunity for one of Apple's infamous "Switched" advertisements. MLDX will not fill the above role. Of course, neither will many of the Windows-based logging programs -- some of which have strong followings, happy users, and a good future. Here's what I'm seeing: 1. Many months ago, some of us contesters approached Don with some ideas of how MLDX could be changed (in minor ways) to accommodate the data collection points needed to support contesting. Don, being hopelessly open-minded and enthusiastic, agreed eagerly and made the changes we suggested. Life was good. 2. Change requests started to trickle in. Then it became a deluge, some requests being contradictory to each other. Hack-and-whack, try this, hack-and-whack. No. That's insane. MDLX is a great program because the design and implementation were thought through carefully and built with care. Hack-and-whack gives you the kind of dregs found on other platforms (not to be named here, in polite company, of course ). 3. So, a group set off to assemble ideas and forge consensus. No consensus was forthcoming. Many ideas (perhaps some good) were floated, but there was nothing concrete to guide Don's next efforts. We agreed to disagree. 4. Except NOW we've somehow reverted back to step two, hack-and-whack. No. We need to stop. If we can provide Don with informed, well thought out advice that has the backing of a significant portion of the MLDX community, then I'm sure Don would be pleased to hear our suggestions. We've fallen far short of that ideal, however, and have been on the brink of abusing our easy access to the developer. These are my thoughts except for this final one: If we did nothing else, I'd still have a pretty good platform to do contesting with. MLDX, and the small amount (compared to Don!) of elbow-grease put into Cab-converter has allowed me to contest year-round. Let's rethink, regroup, and reorganize before we accost poor Don again. After all, if we're not willing to put work into the design ideas we have, isn't it a bit much to expect Don to put work into implementing them on our behalf? My 2-cents. Refunds upon request. -- Scott (NE1RD) ==> Very happy MLDX user and contester B. Scott Andersen | "Magic is real, unless declared integer." bsandersen@mac.com | -- The collected sayings of Wiz Zumwalt Acton, Massachusetts | Ham: NE1RD, QRP ARCI#11588, FP#-910 From n2fq at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 1 11:55:46 2005 From: n2fq at sbcglobal.net (Fernando Quinones N2FQ) Date: Thu Sep 1 11:59:58 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] NewBie Question Message-ID: Hello Everyone My name is Fernando and just moved over to MAC OS X Tiger from Windows. I'm still learning my way around, so the reason for this post is this: I just downloaded MacLoggerDX but when I double click on the .sit file, it ask's me for an application to open it with. According to the Dogparksoftware web site, there is an issue with Tiger. So any pointer is greatly appreciated. tnx. Fernando N2FQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/macloggercontest/attachments/20050901/b923fe8f/attachment.htm From g0oan at btinternet.com Thu Sep 1 12:26:38 2005 From: g0oan at btinternet.com (Sean Sharkey) Date: Thu Sep 1 12:26:56 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] NewBie Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1EFC1904-4FAF-414F-8B2F-F25FF14BD9E8@btinternet.com> Hi Fernando, Welcome! A ".sit" file is simply a compressed/archived file, bit like a .zip file. To open it you'll need a copy of Stuffit Expander, it's free, available from http://www.stuffit.com/mac/expander/ I've upgraded OS X to version 10.4.2 and don't have this desktop problem. Just to to the Apple Menu on your computer, select "Software Update," and it will download and install any updates. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Sean. > Hello Everyone > > My name is Fernando and just moved over to MAC OS X Tiger from > Windows. > > I'm still learning my way around, so the reason for this post is this: > > I just downloaded MacLoggerDX but when I double click on the .sit > file, > it ask's me for an application to open it with. According to the > Dogparksoftware web site, > there is an issue with Tiger. > > So any pointer is greatly appreciated. > > tnx. > > Fernando N2FQ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacLoggerContest mailing list > MacLoggerContest@dogparksoftware.com > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/macloggercontest > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/macloggercontest/attachments/20050901/acd3d52e/attachment.html From n2fq at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 1 12:54:41 2005 From: n2fq at sbcglobal.net (Fernando Quinones N2FQ) Date: Thu Sep 1 12:55:10 2005 Subject: [MacLoggerContest] NewBie Question Message-ID: Thanks to Sean I have installed Stuffit and have MacLoggerDX running. Fernando N2FQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/macloggercontest/attachments/20050901/a87bead7/attachment.htm