[IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Flash Mobile? (was user ping request)

Fri Mar 17 03:30:32 EST 2006

Same-o, even got the flu ;)
Of course, meant .jad/.jar

Miikka

 __________________
 Miikka Lyytikäinen
 CEO
 Aniway
 Karjalankatu 2 A
 FI-00520 HELSINKI
 FINLAND
 http://www.aniway.com


> Ugh! Early morning emails are bad news, yes that's what I meant. And I
> take
> it you meant .jad/.jar ;)
>
> Thanks for the info, I'll stop spamming the list now..
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> 5DT
> Fifth Dimension Technologies
> Matt Benic
> Tel. +27 (0)12 349 2690
> Fax. +27 (0)12 349 1404
> matt.benic at 5dt.com
> www.5DT.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org]
> On Behalf Of miikka.lyytikainen at aniway.fi
> Sent: 17 March 2006 10:01 AM
> To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Flash Mobile? (was user ping request)
>
> Wars never end, they just go dormant time to time ;)
>
> You mean "titles to handsets"?
> No, there´s not much or a difference technically distribution-wise. The
> phone must (obviously) have the Flash Lite player, and if the FL
> application is packaged to .sis (Symbian) file, it acts like one. If it is
> not packaged (normal .swf), and ie. bought using SMS ordering, the
> application goes directly to the Messaging/Received or Inbox folder like
> .yad/.yar.
>
> Miikka
>
>  __________________
>  Miikka Lyytikäinen
>  CEO
>  Aniway
>  Karjalankatu 2 A
>  FI-00520 HELSINKI
>  FINLAND
>  http://www.aniway.com
>
>
>
>> Damn! And here I thought we'd be able to do away with artist/programmer
>> wars!
>>
>> Can anyone comment on the distribution of Flash Lite titles? I see that
>> Nokia is including v1.1 in most of it's new handsets, including S40
>> ones,
>> but I assume the technology required to get handsets to titles is very
>> different to that for J2ME? Will current distros have to 'retool'
>> significantly to support it?
>>
>> Sorry if I'm asking some very basic questions here, I just find actual
>> experience far more valuable than the marketing splash on the Macromedia
>> site ;)
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> 5DT
>> Fifth Dimension Technologies
>> Matt Benic
>> Tel. +27 (0)12 349 2690
>> Fax. +27 (0)12 349 1404
>> matt.benic at 5dt.com
>> www.5DT.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org
>> [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org]
>> On Behalf Of miikka.lyytikainen at aniway.fi
>> Sent: 17 March 2006 09:17 AM
>> To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Flash Mobile? (was user ping
>> request)
>>
>> Good points, especially the Alien Hominid, Matt :)
>> Flooding is inevitable, and in the end the biggest developers/publishers
>> probably will be the main source of this.
>>
>> It is crucial that possibilities like Flash Lite emerge, where smaller
>> and
>> bigger developers are able to try out new things with lesser risks when
>> the market is in it´s forming stage.
>>
>> In my experience, on the Flash side, it has been a tradition that
>> artist/programmers exist and are pretty succesful in doing what they do:
>> but most of the people who say/state in their CV they are good with
>> Flash,
>> are animators/graphic artist, with very limited knowledge about
>> effective
>> (ie. object-oriented) programming needed in more complex game
>> development.
>> Everybody is not suited to be a programmer, and shouldn´t be.
>>
>> Now it seems that things are leading to the same-o Flash programmer or
>> Flash artist categorization, which isn´t a bad thing as this allows the
>> specialists to become the best in what they do, as they are able to
>> concentrate their learning & efforts in their strongest abilities.
>> The clash is back ;)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Miikka
>>
>>  __________________
>>  Miikka Lyytikäinen
>>  CEO
>>  Aniway
>>  Karjalankatu 2 A
>>  FI-00520 HELSINKI
>>  FINLAND
>>  http://www.aniway.com
>>
>>
>>> Imagine-we'd have games of the quality of Alien Hominid hitting the
>>> market.
>>> Wouldn't that be just terrible ;)
>>>
>>> I think the 'flooding' will depend on how these titles are distributed.
>>> To
>>> be honest, while the 'flooding' is seen by many as a bad thing, I think
>>> it's
>>> great, it gives small developers (who can afford to try new things) a
>>> chance, while the current publishing model for PC and Console games
>>> cuts
>>> that possibility out entirely (even on XBLA). I know the question of
>>> quality
>>> always pops up in the mobile flooding conversation, but I don't see how
>>> bigger development houses and publishers have been much good in
>>> increasing
>>> quality anyway. In the end distributors happily plug incompatible games
>>> to
>>> players, and this happens just as much with high-profile, bigger budget
>>> titles as it does with the little titles.
>>>
>>> Also, flash developers are.. different. We are used to separating the
>>> artist/programmer role, but in my experience that line is far more
>>> blurred
>>> when it comes to flash. In a way this is great, as you end up with less
>>> of
>>> the age-old artist vs programmer clashes ;)
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 5DT
>>> Fifth Dimension Technologies
>>> Matt Benic
>>> Tel. +27 (0)12 349 2690
>>> Fax. +27 (0)12 349 1404
>>> matt.benic at 5dt.com
>>> www.5DT.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org
>>> [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org]
>>> On Behalf Of miikka.lyytikainen at aniway.fi
>>> Sent: 16 March 2006 05:30 PM
>>> To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List
>>> Subject: RE: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Flash Mobile? (was user ping
>>> request)
>>>
>>> Hi Matt,
>>>
>>>> I come from a console development background, so I'm by no means
>>>> saying
>>>> the
>>>> amount of code work needs to be minimal-but I just find that mobile
>>>> dev
>>>> in
>>>> Java involves a MUCH higher proportion of development time to art time
>>>> than
>>>> in those environments. I also find that real code reusability is a lot
>>>> more
>>>> difficult to achieve on mobiles than on console/PC game development.
>>>> Now
>>>> coming in at a higher level with a tool like flash, I think that
>>>> _could_
>>>> be
>>>> less of a problem.
>>>
>>> Agree.
>>> Actually, the Flash Actionscript 2 is very similar to the syntax of the
>>> Java/J2ME, and it is object oriented (using classes). One is able to
>>> use
>>> some of the same codebase for the J2ME and Flash Lite development.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Agreed on the profitability, I think that's something we all look to
>>>> :)
>>>> I
>>>> just think that a rapid dev solution like flash could (if implemented
>>>> properly) do away with some of the expensive, time consuming issues
>>>> associated with mobile Java in it's current form-one of which is that
>>>> high
>>>> proportion of coding to asset generation.
>>>>
>>>> I also agree with you 100% that _for now_ java is the way to go;
>>>> however
>>>> I
>>>> want to look forward as well. Flash has proved exceptionally well
>>>> suited
>>>> to
>>>> the casual PC market, and I still see a far bigger future for casual
>>>> games
>>>> on mobiles than ports of console franchises (2D or 3D).
>>>
>>> Also agree, J2ME is the tool to make games for masses in the western
>>> countries - for now. Flash Lite can´t do all the things J2ME can, and
>>> vice
>>> versa. Both casual and hardcore games are needed, casual has obviously
>>> a
>>> bigger potential. One of the risks with rapid development tool like
>>> Flash
>>> Lite is flooding the market, as we have already seen in the J2ME
>>> market.
>>> Imagine when the 1-2 million existing Flash developers get a hold of
>>> the
>>> mobile Flash... ;)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Miikka
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________
>>> Miikka Lyytikäinen
>>> CEO
>>> Aniway
>>> Karjalankatu 2 A
>>> FI-00520 HELSINKI
>>> FINLAND
>>> http://www.aniway.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Mobile_Games at igda.org
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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