From harri.lehtimaki at takioni.fi Tue Mar 6 08:57:48 2007 From: harri.lehtimaki at takioni.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Harri_Lehtim=E4ki?=) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:48 +0200 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearing problems? Message-ID: <000c01c75ff7$7987eb20$640a0a0a@takionioctek> Hi all, Does anyone here know, or even have developed, mobile games especially for people with hearing problems? regards, Harri Lehtim?ki TAKIONI www.takioni.fi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070306/28996c96/attachment.htm From jorgegs at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 08:58:49 2007 From: jorgegs at gmail.com (Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:58:49 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearing problems? In-Reply-To: <000c01c75ff7$7987eb20$640a0a0a@takionioctek> References: <000c01c75ff7$7987eb20$640a0a0a@takionioctek> Message-ID: Hi Harri, No, not really. But most mobile games have little sound, so people with hearing problems usually have zero handicap. In fact, I never saw or played a mobile game which based its gameplay around the sound. What do you mean by a game for people with hearing problems? (a game for the blind would be quite unique, but I don't know what great difference could a hearing problem bring to the design of a game) Cheers, Jorge. On 3/6/07, Harri Lehtim?ki wrote: > > Hi all, > > Does anyone here know, or even have developed, mobile games especially > for people with hearing problems? > > regards, > Harri Lehtim?ki > > TAKIONI > www.takioni.fi > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070306/19cca63b/attachment.htm From harri.lehtimaki at takioni.fi Tue Mar 6 09:42:08 2007 From: harri.lehtimaki at takioni.fi (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Harri_Lehtim=E4ki?=) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:42:08 +0200 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? References: <000c01c75ff7$7987eb20$640a0a0a@takionioctek> Message-ID: <003001c75ffd$a72653e0$640a0a0a@takionioctek> Hi Jorge I should have formulated my question differently. Sounds are seldom in an important role in mobile games, so that's not really an issue. But my customer is a foundation that helps deaf people, especially children. They would like to have a mobile game but they are somewhat worried about usability issues. That's why I wanted to play safe and find out if I could get any tips from here. We already have some ideas for a game that teaches sign language, and it would also be nice to know if such games already exist. Cheers, Harri ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? Hi Harri, No, not really. But most mobile games have little sound, so people with hearing problems usually have zero handicap. In fact, I never saw or played a mobile game which based its gameplay around the sound. What do you mean by a game for people with hearing problems? (a game for the blind would be quite unique, but I don't know what great difference could a hearing problem bring to the design of a game) Cheers, Jorge. On 3/6/07, Harri Lehtim?ki wrote: Hi all, Does anyone here know, or even have developed, mobile games especially for people with hearing problems? regards, Harri Lehtim?ki TAKIONI www.takioni.fi _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070306/9a781b15/attachment.htm From mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 11:11:18 2007 From: mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com (Michael Charland) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:11:18 -0500 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? Message-ID: Any older game didn't have sound and if it did have sound it was a beep or squack. Also instead of using sound you could vibrate the phone.From: harri.lehtimaki at takioni.fiTo: mobile_games at igda.orgDate: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:42:08 +0200Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? Hi Jorge I should have formulated my question differently. Sounds are seldom in an important role in mobile games, so that's not really an issue. But my customer is a foundation that helps deaf people, especially children. They would like to have a mobile game but they are somewhat worried about usability issues. That's why I wanted to play safe and find out if I could get any tips from here. We already have some ideas for a game that teaches sign language, and it would also be nice to know if such games already exist. Cheers, Harri ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? Hi Harri, No, not really. But most mobile games have little sound, so people with hearing problems usually have zero handicap. In fact, I never saw or played a mobile game which based its gameplay around the sound. What do you mean by a game for people with hearing problems? (a game for the blind would be quite unique, but I don't know what great difference could a hearing problem bring to the design of a game) Cheers, Jorge. On 3/6/07, Harri Lehtim?ki wrote: Hi all, Does anyone here know, or even have developed, mobile games especially for people with hearing problems? regards, Harri Lehtim?ki TAKIONIwww.takioni.fi _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing listMobile_Games at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games-- Jorge Gonzalez SanchezBlue River S.A.TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 _______________________________________________Mobile_Games mailing listMobile_Games at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games _______________________________________________Mobile_Games mailing listMobile_Games at igda.orghttp://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070306/4b55b04f/attachment.html From andrea.fryer at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 01:47:16 2007 From: andrea.fryer at gmail.com (Andrea Fryer) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:47:16 +0200 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile games for people with hearingproblems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47e063740703062247v417c8113ra006b5197a5082e3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Harri, To answer your original question, I'm sorry to say I don't know of any games catering to the hearing impaired, but I do agree that games should be designed to offer the best possible usability for all groups. The delightful thing about mobile phones versus say a PC as a gaming device, are indeed it's unique possibilities via mobility, camera and vibration, as Michael pointed out. As for calming the concerns of your customer, you can point out that mobile games are usually designed to be non-dependant on sound to begin with, since most people play these games sitting in the bus or at an airport etc where they'd turn the sounds off anyhow, as not to distract others. In addition, due to the tiny screen - visual feedback is usually more exaggerated than in other gaming platforms (or at least should be) so the player can clearly see that something is happening. Oh and as for audio feedback in mobile games, I still think it's important and can really heighten the experience, although it should never play an essential role in pleasurable gameplay. That in itself would be a usability flaw. Andrea Fryer Game artist Digital Chocolate, Sumea studio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/0a4c17b6/attachment.htm From bitween at bitween.com Wed Mar 7 04:52:32 2007 From: bitween at bitween.com (Bitween) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:52:32 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Game porting References: <47e063740703062247v417c8113ra006b5197a5082e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <026e01c7609e$542d6970$050aa8c0@gateway> Hi people, I know that this mailing list is read by a lot of producer an people in the mobile industry, we do porting , only porting for big publisher like THQ, Eidos , B! and so on I just want to know if you produce the portign by yourself and if you have a QA internally for this , do you have all the device and if you are happy of the production , if not you can contact me directly and we can talk aboiut porting game maybe we can find a great collaboraton togheteror just discuss what you think about portign especially latelly because a lot of new devices are coming and the problem of the porting is still alive more than before Thanks Roberto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- La mia Cartella di Posta in Arrivo ? protetta con SPAMfighter 1749 messaggi contenenti spam sono stati bloccati con successo. Scarica gratuitamente SPAMfighter! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/0a53b6e5/attachment.html From bvolk at mynumo.com Wed Mar 7 12:39:35 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:39:35 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Introducing MyNuMo Game Studio Message-ID: All, Excuse the 'sales-y' tone here, but I thought this might be of interest to some of the publishers on this list. Introducing the MyNuMo Game Studio: Our team consists of an ex Activision development executive (me) with over 25 years of experience in the video game industry, a pioneer in the on-line casino industry, programmers with award winning mobile, PC, and Flash experience in casino, casual, action, and strategy gaming. Multiple experienced development teams have programmed mobile games since the inception of the business in Europe and Asia. We build with porting in mind from the start, lowering the costs of development and improving the quality of these titles. With an extensive background in casino gaming, location based applications, women oriented games, casual and multiplayer games we deliver high quality titles with superior look, feel and play ? and we do it for far less than the competition. In addition to J2ME/BREW mobile games, we can deliver Flash titles. Going beyond our game development capabilities, we have carrier agreements to allow for direct billing to consumers (USA). We can produce and distribute related ringtone, wallpaper, and mobile video content. Please contact: William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com From algd at cesar.org.br Wed Mar 7 14:21:28 2007 From: algd at cesar.org.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alexandre_Luiz_Galv=E3o_Damasceno?=) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:21:28 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Message-ID: <45EF10B8.6030906@cesar.org.br> Hi all, I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last night: Is there a future for original mobile games? As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. PS: The article can be found at: http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html Thanks and best regards, -- Alexandre Luiz G. Damasceno Meantime Mobile Creations - CESAR ---------------------------------- Recife/Brazil From don at sonaural.com Wed Mar 7 16:05:58 2007 From: don at sonaural.com (DrDon) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:05:58 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EF10B8.6030906@cesar.org.br> References: <45EF10B8.6030906@cesar.org.br> Message-ID: <45EF2936.1040605@sonaural.com> IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point out). dd ? wrote: > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > Thanks and best regards, > > -- *Don Diekneite* *Sonaural Audio Studios* (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/6a8f7113/attachment.htm From jorgegs at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 17:20:04 2007 From: jorgegs at gmail.com (Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:20:04 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EF2936.1040605@sonaural.com> References: <45EF10B8.6030906@cesar.org.br> <45EF2936.1040605@sonaural.com> Message-ID: Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point > out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > -- > > *Don Diekneite* > > *Sonaural Audio Studios* > > (408)799-6123 > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/e690af0d/attachment.html From don at sonaural.com Wed Mar 7 18:07:27 2007 From: don at sonaural.com (DrDon) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:07:27 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: <45EF10B8.6030906@cesar.org.br> <45EF2936.1040605@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <45EF45AF.1090507@sonaural.com> I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. dd Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more > than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or > whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading > something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) > bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or > Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also > is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the > horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and > now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are > great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty > much unexplored. > > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* > wrote: > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many > point out). > > dd > > ? wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip >> Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last >> night: Is there a future for original mobile games? >> >> >> As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC >> games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile >> customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are >> >> console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most >> downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. >> >> We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new >> game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got >> >> their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. >> >> So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. >> >> PS: The article can be found at: >> >> http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 >> >> PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: >> http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html >> >> >> Thanks and best regards, >> >> > > > -- > > *Don Diekneite* > > *Sonaural Audio Studios* > > (408)799-6123 > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > -- *Don Diekneite* *Sonaural Audio Studios* (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/f786d1c4/attachment.htm From bvolk at mynumo.com Wed Mar 7 18:52:41 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:52:41 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EF45AF.1090507@sonaural.com> Message-ID: The reason that licenses MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because the majority of mobile game sales are from carrier ?decks?. Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. So for publishers, it?s worth spending $$$ to make that text stand out. One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of getting on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. If you have to support a ?Series-40? handset it may not be worth your while to build a fancy version for a smartphone. William Volk MyNuMo From: DrDon I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. dd Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the > PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game > which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on > Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of > simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking > inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own > (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be > treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the > DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces > which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. > > > > > On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: >> >> IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point out). >> >> dd >> >> ? wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip >>> Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last >>> night: Is there a future for original mobile games? >>> >>> >>> As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC >>> games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile >>> customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are >>> >>> console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most >>> downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. >>> >>> We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new >>> game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got >>> >>> their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. >>> >>> So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. >>> >>> PS: The article can be found at: >>> >>> http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 >>> >>> >>> PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: >>> http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> Thanks and best regards, >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Don Diekneite >> >> >> Sonaural Audio Studios >> >> >> (408)799-6123 >> >> >> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile_Games mailing list >> Mobile_Games at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games >> >> > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > -- Don Diekneite Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/abb61a13/attachment.htm From jorgegs at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 20:33:47 2007 From: jorgegs at gmail.com (Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 22:33:47 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: <45EF45AF.1090507@sonaural.com> Message-ID: While the Nokia S40v1 thing can be true, you can't really base your designs around portability to the low-end handsets, even if they represent a big slice of the market pie. We always work around a S60v2-Razr-ish version as a base, and then down(and up) scale from there. Ever tried the Nokia 3200 version of King Kong? Its barely enough for the client not to have the right to say he was ripped off. The S60 version comes with all sorts of bells and whistles. Unless you get one of those tetris-godlike ideas for a game, you will end up with a poor game on most handsets if you think too much on them shabby handsets. Consider I say this while having all the porting done in-house. On 3/7/07, William Volk wrote: > > The reason that licenses MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because the > majority of mobile game sales are from carrier 'decks'. > > Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. > > So for publishers, it's worth spending $$$ to make that text stand out. > > One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of getting > on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. If you have to support > a "Series-40" handset it may not be worth your while to build a fancy > version for a smartphone. > > William Volk > MyNuMo > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *DrDon > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of > phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware > capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware > capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively > stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, > it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a > "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the > cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared > against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of > platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a > license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! > Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same > as on other game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than > the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a > game which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on > Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of > simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking > inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own > (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should > be treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now > the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great > interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much > unexplored. > > > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* wrote: > > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point > out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are > > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got > > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > > http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > > > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *Don Diekneite > * > > *Sonaural Audio Studios > * > > (408)799-6123 > > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > -- > Don Diekneite > *Don Diekneite > **Sonaural Audio Studios > *(408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/1aab54e2/attachment.html From bvolk at mynumo.com Wed Mar 7 21:37:56 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:37:56 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jorge, Sounds like a good policy to me. Three years ago I would start the games on Nokia Series 60, build a different version for the cheaper handsets. Anyone remember the fun of building a Series-30 title? Still, if you COULD focus on the handsets that represent 80% of potential game sales (i.e. The NEW handsets) you would have more $$$ to spend on design and less on ports. Try launching a network game for example. Meanwhile I will work on a ?tetris-godlike idea? ... I love that expression! William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com From: Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez While the Nokia S40v1 thing can be true, you can't really base your designs around portability to the low-end handsets, even if they represent a big slice of the market pie. We always work around a S60v2-Razr-ish version as a base, and then down(and up) scale from there. Ever tried the Nokia 3200 version of King Kong? Its barely enough for the client not to have the right to say he was ripped off. The S60 version comes with all sorts of bells and whistles. Unless you get one of those tetris-godlike ideas for a game, you will end up with a poor game on most handsets if you think too much on them shabby handsets. Consider I say this while having all the porting done in-house. On 3/7/07, William Volk wrote: > The reason that licenses MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because the majority > of mobile game sales are from carrier 'decks'. > > Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. > > So for publishers, it's worth spending $$$ to make that text stand out. > > One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of getting > on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. If you have to support a > "Series-40" handset it may not be worth your while to build a fancy version > for a smartphone. > > William Volk > MyNuMo > > > > From: DrDon > > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone > game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware > capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware > capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable > and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the > other way around. Definitely a unique problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a > "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost > of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against > original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You > still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be > offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on > phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other > game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: >> Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the >> PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game >> which represents the mobile industrys finest. >> >> Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on >> Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of >> simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking >> inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own >> (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should >> be treated as such. >> >> A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the >> DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces >> which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. >> >> >> >> >> On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: >>> >>> IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point >>> out). >>> >>> dd >>> >>> ? wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip >>>> Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last >>>> night: Is there a future for original mobile games? >>>> >>>> >>>> As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC >>>> games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile >>>> customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are >>>> >>>> console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most >>>> downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. >>>> >>>> We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new >>>> game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got >>>> >>>> their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. >>>> >>>> So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. >>>> >>>> PS: The article can be found at: >>>> >>>> http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: >>>> http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html >>>> >>>> >>> l> >>>> >>>> Thanks and best regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> Don Diekneite >>> >>> >>> Sonaural Audio Studios >>> >>> >>> (408)799-6123 >>> >>> >>> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobile_Games mailing list >>> Mobile_Games at igda.org >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez >> Blue River S.A. >> >> TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 >> MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile_Games mailing list >> Mobile_Games at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games >> > > > -- > Don Diekneite > Don Diekneite > Sonaural Audio Studios > (408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/fd39a24a/attachment.html From don at sonaural.com Wed Mar 7 23:09:55 2007 From: don at sonaural.com (DrDon) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:09:55 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45EF8C93.1070409@sonaural.com> Don't get me wrong. I would not blanketly say that licenses don't make sense. There are so many examples of cases that do. But there are also a lot that don't. We've worked on a number of Movie-licensed games that aren't in that top 50 list even though they have the name recognition. I don't know if they made money for the publishers or not. I think some of them did make it onto the decks though. You're right about supporting a variety of hardwares being a significant design constraint. That's a problem we've never really had before - at least not to this degree. I think it requires a re-thinking of what game entertainment is to begin with. A great challenge. dd William Volk wrote: > The reason that licenses MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because the > majority of mobile game sales are from carrier ?decks?. > > Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. > > So for publishers, it?s worth spending $$$ to make that text stand out. > > One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of > getting on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. If you > have to support a ?Series-40? handset it may not be worth your while > to build a fancy version for a smartphone. > > William Volk > MyNuMo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *DrDon > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of > phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of > hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at > which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have > been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers > wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique > problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always > been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license > with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk > when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have > failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. > Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased > sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the > value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more > than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or > whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading > something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) > bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or > Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics > also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of > the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be > treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, > and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the > Camera are great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but > are still pretty much unexplored. > > > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* wrote: > > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as > many point out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the > speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting > my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations > from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only > 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile > customers are > > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain > why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to > create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, > that already got > > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > > http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > > > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *Don Diekneite > * > > *Sonaural Audio Studios > * > > (408)799-6123 > > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > -- > Don Diekneite > *Don Diekneite > **Sonaural Audio Studios > *(408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > -- *Don Diekneite* *Sonaural Audio Studios* (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/bd5494bd/attachment.htm From bvolk at mynumo.com Wed Mar 7 23:53:32 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:53:32 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EF8C93.1070409@sonaural.com> Message-ID: In 1981 I had to port my game (Avalon Hill, Voyager 1) to five different computers: TRS-80, Tandy CoCo, Apple II, Atari 800, and Commodore PET. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/bikingbill/voyager_one_k7_2.jpg That was easy compared to moving a J2ME title around. William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com From: DrDon Don't get me wrong. I would not blanketly say that licenses don't make sense. There are so many examples of cases that do. But there are also a lot that don't. We've worked on a number of Movie-licensed games that aren't in that top 50 list even though they have the name recognition. I don't know if they made money for the publishers or not. I think some of them did make it onto the decks though. You're right about supporting a variety of hardwares being a significant design constraint. That's a problem we've never really had before - at least not to this degree. I think it requires a re-thinking of what game entertainment is to begin with. A great challenge. dd William Volk wrote: > Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games The reason that licenses > MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because the majority of mobile game sales are > from carrier ?decks?. > > Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. > > So for publishers, it?s worth spending $$$ to make that text stand out. > > One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of getting > on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. ?If you have to support a > ?Series-40? handset it may not be worth your while to build a fancy version > for a smartphone. > > William Volk > MyNuMo > > > > > From: DrDon > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone > game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware > capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware > capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable > and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the > other way around. Definitely a unique problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a > "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost > of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against > original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You > still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be > offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on > phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other > game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > >> Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the >> PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game >> which represents the mobile industrys finest. >> ? >> Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on >> Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of >> simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking >> inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own >> (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should >> be treated as such. >> ? >> A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the >> DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces >> which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. >> ? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: >> >>> >>> IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point >>> out). >>> ? >>> dd >>> ? >>> ? wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip >>>> Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last >>>> night: Is there a future for original mobile games? >>>> >>>> >>>> As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC >>>> games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile >>>> customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are >>>> >>>> console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most >>>> downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. >>>> >>>> We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new >>>> game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got >>>> >>>> their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. >>>> >>>> So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. >>>> >>>> PS: The article can be found at: >>>> >>>> http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 >>>> >>>> >>>> PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: >>>> >>>> http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html >>>> ?>>> ml> >>>> >>>> Thanks and best regards, >>>> >>>> ?? >>>> ? >>>> >>> >>> ? >>> ?? >>> -- >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> Don Diekneite >>> >>> >>> Sonaural Audio Studios >>> >>> >>> (408)799-6123 >>> >>> >>> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com >>> >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobile_Games mailing list >>> ?Mobile_Games at igda.org >>> ?http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games >>> ? >>> ? >>> >> >> ? >> ? >> ? >> -- >> Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez >> Blue River S.A. >> ? >> TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 >> MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile_Games mailing list >> Mobile_Games at igda.org >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games >> ?? >> > > > -- > Don Diekneite > Don Diekneite > Sonaural Audio Studios > (408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > -- Don Diekneite Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/a3b03ca9/attachment.htm From don at sonaural.com Thu Mar 8 00:47:49 2007 From: don at sonaural.com (DrDon) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:47:49 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45EFA385.5050304@sonaural.com> William Volk wrote: > In 1981 I had to port my game (Avalon Hill, Voyager 1) to five > different computers: > > TRS-80, Tandy CoCo, Apple II, Atari 800, and Commodore PET. > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/bikingbill/voyager_one_k7_2.jpg > > That was easy compared to moving a J2ME title around. Cool. Did you plan the ports while you were creating the game? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/e5409091/attachment.html From bvolk at mynumo.com Thu Mar 8 01:17:39 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:17:39 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EFA385.5050304@sonaural.com> Message-ID: Did I plan the ports? I wrote that game ... Let?s see ... 1980/81 ... Over 25 years ago. I started it on the Atari 800 and had access to the rest. It was written in BASIC and in some cases ASM was used for the graphics routines. I wrote a Z80 vector drawing routine for the TRS-80 and bought a 6502 vector drawing routine (for the Commodore PET) from a famous PET programmer in Canada. I knew what the machines could do. Here?s what I didn?t have to worry about in 1980: 1. Crashes due to garbage collection not working. 2. Differences in the core of BASIC language functions, like what functions would cause what errors (I?ve seen inconsistent array exceptions in J2ME). 3. Unexplained crashes with no on-machine way of telling what really happened. The funny thing is the Tandy CoCo version would probably run faster than the same game ported to many J2ME handsets. I really doubt there were any game developers involved in the creation of J2ME ;-) William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com From: DrDon William Volk wrote: > Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In 1981 I had to port my > game (Avalon Hill, Voyager 1) to five different computers: > > TRS-80, Tandy CoCo, Apple II, Atari 800, and Commodore PET. > > http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/bikingbill/voyager_one_k7_2.jpg > > That was easy compared to moving a J2ME title around. > Cool. Did you plan the ports while you were creating the game? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/f6f8a46a/attachment.html From christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com Thu Mar 8 02:25:01 2007 From: christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com (Christopher Kassulke) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:25:01 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Message-ID: Hi all, if brands count so much why is the market stagnating in the US and in several parts of Europe? We see a branded deck for ages but the usage is not going up significant. Only already establish Publishers have a chance to establish own IPs. As new comer you will have no chance to knock on the Gatekeepers doors with a cool concept or game. Currently not the endcustomer choose what games they want ? the gatekeeper is. Open it up and you will see what will run. Creating an own big IPs cost nearly the same as license one but its more risky. We established already several brands like Townsmen, Pornmanager, etc. but it cost a lot and you have to be innovative. Brands are not a 100% guarantee for good revenues and deck placement. Every publisher and developer have the own strategy. At the end we will see which company will be most successful. In my opinion a good mixture of brands and own IP will bring the market further. But always only the good quality will keep the customer satisfied. Cheers, Christopher Christopher Kassulke CEO www.handy-games.com GmbH Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von DrDon Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 00:07 An: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. dd Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point out). dd ? wrote: Hi all, I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last night: Is there a future for original mobile games? As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. PS: The article can be found at: http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html Thanks and best regards, -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070308/a7a97e87/attachment.htm From bvolk at mynumo.com Thu Mar 8 02:35:22 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:35:22 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to an off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the USA are sold from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off deck, but it was dependent on the success of a (real) card game to drive sales. The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second game. William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com From: Christopher Kassulke Hi all, if brands count so much why is the market stagnating in the US and in several parts of Europe? We see a branded deck for ages but the usage is not going up significant. Only already establish Publishers have a chance to establish own IPs. As new comer you will have no chance to knock on the Gatekeepers doors with a cool concept or game. Currently not the endcustomer choose what games they want ? the gatekeeper is. Open it up and you will see what will run. Creating an own big IPs cost nearly the same as license one but its more risky. We established already several brands like Townsmen, Pornmanager, etc. but it cost a lot and you have to be innovative. Brands are not a 100% guarantee for good revenues and deck placement. Every publisher and developer have the own strategy. At the end we will see which company will be most successful. In my opinion a good mixture of brands and own IP will bring the market further. But always only the good quality will keep the customer satisfied. Cheers, Christopher Christopher Kassulke CEO www.handy-games.com http://www.handy-games.com/> GmbH Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von DrDon Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 00:07 An: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. dd Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point out). dd ? wrote: Hi all, I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last night: Is there a future for original mobile games? As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. PS: The article can be found at: http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html Thanks and best regards, ? -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games ? -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070307/da82c683/attachment-0001.html From christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com Thu Mar 8 03:19:25 2007 From: christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com (Christopher Kassulke) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:19:25 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Message-ID: As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! Just my 2eurocents, Christopher Christopher Kassulke CEO www.handy-games.com GmbH Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von William Volk Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 08:35 An: Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to an off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the USA are sold from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off deck, but it was dependent on the success of a (real) card game to drive sales. The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second game. William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com ________________________________ From: Christopher Kassulke Hi all, if brands count so much why is the market stagnating in the US and in several parts of Europe? We see a branded deck for ages but the usage is not going up significant. Only already establish Publishers have a chance to establish own IPs. As new comer you will have no chance to knock on the Gatekeepers doors with a cool concept or game. Currently not the endcustomer choose what games they want ? the gatekeeper is. Open it up and you will see what will run. Creating an own big IPs cost nearly the same as license one but its more risky. We established already several brands like Townsmen, Pornmanager, etc. but it cost a lot and you have to be innovative. Brands are not a 100% guarantee for good revenues and deck placement. Every publisher and developer have the own strategy. At the end we will see which company will be most successful. In my opinion a good mixture of brands and own IP will bring the market further. But always only the good quality will keep the customer satisfied. Cheers, Christopher Christopher Kassulke CEO www.handy-games.com GmbH Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von DrDon Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 00:07 An: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique problem. Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. dd Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. On 3/7/07, DrDon wrote: IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many point out). dd ? wrote: Hi all, I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last night: Is there a future for original mobile games? As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. PS: The article can be found at: http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html Thanks and best regards, -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Don Diekneite Sonaural Audio Studios (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070308/c5fed858/attachment.html From John.Bridges at ikkyou.com Thu Mar 8 03:40:08 2007 From: John.Bridges at ikkyou.com (John Bridges) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:40:08 +0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45EFCBE8.20609@ikkyou.com> Absolutely agree - although (you know there had to be a but) - in what way will the carrier decks be open ? I think there are two answers to this: 1. a. On the one hand portals OTHER than the operators will have a hard time unless more handsets are Blackberry like - with Qwerty keypads - or W950i like with touch sensitive screens with virtual keypads. Why ? Because navigating to any URL on a basic T9 keypad is a nightmare, so the majority of customers will just not go anywhere except the dedicated operator portal route. b. Operators will have to drop data charges to some sensible level - or significantly increase data allowances - otherwise people will be significantly stung going off portal. So the solution to make the experience more open is to lower data costs and improve the browsing UI of the majority of handsets - looking at the market at the moment (and the impetus given by newcomers like the iPhone) - we are a good 3- 5 years away from this kind of flexible handset penetration to the masses. 2. The operators should open their portal's up along the lines of the iMode experience - so they still control the gateway to the gamedeck - but NOT the actual content of the gamedeck. A "shop" on the gamedeck will obviously cost money - but the roll out of content is then under the control of the developer/publisher. Even the large players in our market at the moment often look at 3 month lead times from going gold to seeing their content on operator decks. For smaller players the ability to go gold with the current crop of new handsets and then backfill at leisure would be a significant boost. I am as ever perplexed why the operators don't go down route 2. Interacting closely with them, it is fairly obvious that the cost of running the games portals is actually quite prohibitive - most of the major operators in the UK have significantly slashed their staffing and capability. My hunch (also from close contact) is that their technology base is fragmented and non-existent in most cases. I know of one major UK operator whose method of determining sales is reliant on trawling server logs. Go figure. JB Christopher Kassulke wrote: > > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. > Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the > operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com GmbH > > *Von:* mobile_games-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] *Im Auftrag von *William Volk > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 08:35 > *An:* Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List > *Betreff:* Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > > > > Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to > an off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the > USA are sold from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off > deck, but it was dependent on the success of a (real) card game to > drive sales. > > The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a > second game. > > William Volk > CEO, MyNuMo > 858 692 1124 > Create It, Show It, SELL IT! > http://www.mynumo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From: *Christopher Kassulke > > Hi all, > > if brands count so much why is the market stagnating in the US and in > several parts of Europe? We see a branded deck for ages but the usage > is not going up significant. Only already establish Publishers have a > chance to establish own IPs. As new comer you will have no chance to > knock on the Gatekeepers doors with a cool concept or game. > > Currently not the endcustomer choose what games they want ? the > gatekeeper is. Open it up and you will see what will run. > > Creating an own big IPs cost nearly the same as license one but its > more risky. We established already several brands like Townsmen, > Pornmanager, etc. but it cost a lot and you have to be innovative. > > Brands are not a 100% guarantee for good revenues and deck placement. > > Every publisher and developer have the own strategy. At the end we > will see which company will be most successful. In my opinion a good > mixture of brands and own IP will bring the market further. But always > only the good quality will keep the customer satisfied. > > Cheers, > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com > GmbH > > > *Von:* mobile_games-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] > *Im Auftrag von *DrDon > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 00:07 > *An:* Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List > *Betreff:* Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of > phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of > hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at > which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have > been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers > wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique > problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always > been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license > with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk > when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have > failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. > Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased > sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the > value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more > than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or > whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading > something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) > bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or > Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also > is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the > horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and > now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are > great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty > much unexplored. > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* wrote: > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many > point out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are > > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got > > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > > _http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > _ > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > -- > > *Don Diekneite > * > *Sonaural Audio Studios > * > (408)799-6123 > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > -- > > > *Don Diekneite > **Sonaural Audio Studios > *(408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > From John.Bridges at ikkyou.com Thu Mar 8 03:49:09 2007 From: John.Bridges at ikkyou.com (John Bridges) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:49:09 +0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: <45EF45AF.1090507@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <45EFCE05.2070906@ikkyou.com> The real issue isn't necessarily that you don't want to build a game for all those handsets, its the prohibitive cost. In the current market I would say that you should probably have 3 development streams - 1 for Series 40 alike handsets, 1 for mid-range and 1 for high end. The problem is the cap on sales price for the game is ?5/?5 and in reality if you're going to build a high-end Symbian game you really want to charge ?10 - ?15. My hunch is that for Symbian content you won't significantly dampen your audience at that price but you will make a LOT more money - this is the ballpark for alot of Blackberry content after all. How significant is the s40 market nowadays though ? If you look at the UK market for example, deck sales are almost entirely driven by handsets 1 - 2 years old. JB Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > While the Nokia S40v1 thing can be true, you can't really base your > designs around portability to the low-end handsets, even if they > represent a big slice of the market pie. > > We always work around a S60v2-Razr-ish version as a base, and then > down(and up) scale from there. > > Ever tried the Nokia 3200 version of King Kong? Its barely enough for > the client not to have the right to say he was ripped off. The S60 > version comes with all sorts of bells and whistles. > > Unless you get one of those tetris-godlike ideas for a game, you will > end up with a poor game on most handsets if you think too much on them > shabby handsets. Consider I say this while having all the porting done > in-house. > > > On 3/7/07, *William Volk* > > wrote: > > The reason that licenses MAKE SENSE for mobile games is because > the majority of mobile game sales are from carrier 'decks'. > > Therefore what the consumer sees is about 20 ? 40 characters of text. > > So for publishers, it's worth spending $$$ to make that text stand > out. > > One thing that is holding up game design is that a requirement of > getting on-deck is to support a very wide range of handsets. If > you have to support a "Series-40" handset it may not be worth your > while to build a fancy version for a smartphone. > > William Volk > MyNuMo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *DrDon > > > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the > evolution of phone game design is not progressing as fast as the > evolution of hardware capabilities. This being due to the > incredibly rapid rate at which hardware capabilities increase. In > the past, game hardwares have been relatively stable and largely > driven by capabilities developers wanted. With phones, it's the > other way around. Definitely a unique problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have > always been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of > the license with the cost of development, and hopefully some > mitigation of risk when compared against original ip. Some have > succeeded, many have failed regardless of platform. You still have > to have a decent game. Presumably, the cost of a license will be > offset by the increased sales right? Easier said than done! > Especially on phones where the value of a movie or TV license > isn't the same as on other game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no > more than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its > WoWs or whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys > finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading > something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile > game(s?) bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like > Tetris or Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration > from classics also is, but mobile games are a kind of it own > (mainly because of the horrible, inconsistent human > interfaces), and should be treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen > games, and now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone > and the Camera are great interfaces which offer great > possibilities, but are still pretty much unexplored. > > > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* > wrote: > > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made > (as many point out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and > the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question > biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are > adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, > only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of > mobile customers are > > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would > explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting > brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, > that already got > > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > > http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > > > > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *Don Diekneite > * > > *Sonaural Audio Studios > * > > (408)799-6123 > > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > -- > Don Diekneite > *Don Diekneite > **Sonaural Audio Studios > *(408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > From John.Bridges at ikkyou.com Thu Mar 8 03:56:32 2007 From: John.Bridges at ikkyou.com (John Bridges) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:56:32 +0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45EFCFC0.4000408@ikkyou.com> Gameloft are already going down this route with their PC downloadable portal. In the UK at least one of the operators makes the majority of sales in line with new handsets. Its a novelty factor playing a game as much as anything else. I don't know what other's think here, but a few of the big-ticket top-sellers I've bought have been REALLY dumbed down. Tetris e.g. was so slow on my N70 that I could have played it with my eyes shut. Ditto Space-Invaders. To me I found that the mobile experience of both these games just put me off - I really couldn't see the point of playing them. But I guess it sells because it has the magic name. But I do find it worrying that big-ticket games like these which have the potential to be playable in their original sense on mobile are probably the first mobile games a new customer will ever buy. Is it any wonder they don't come back ? JB William Volk wrote: > Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to > an off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the > USA are sold from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off > deck, but it was dependent on the success of a (real) card game to > drive sales. > > The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a > second game. > > William Volk > CEO, MyNuMo > 858 692 1124 > Create It, Show It, SELL IT! > http://www.mynumo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *Christopher Kassulke > > Hi all, > > if brands count so much why is the market stagnating in the US and in > several parts of Europe? We see a branded deck for ages but the usage > is not going up significant. Only already establish Publishers have a > chance to establish own IPs. As new comer you will have no chance to > knock on the Gatekeepers doors with a cool concept or game. > > Currently not the endcustomer choose what games they want ? the > gatekeeper is. Open it up and you will see what will run. > > Creating an own big IPs cost nearly the same as license one but its > more risky. We established already several brands like Townsmen, > Pornmanager, etc. but it cost a lot and you have to be innovative. > > Brands are not a 100% guarantee for good revenues and deck placement. > > Every publisher and developer have the own strategy. At the end we > will see which company will be most successful. In my opinion a good > mixture of brands and own IP will bring the market further. But always > only the good quality will keep the customer satisfied. > > Cheers, > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com > GmbH > > > *Von:* mobile_games-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] > *Im Auftrag von *DrDon > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2007 00:07 > *An:* Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List > *Betreff:* Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > > I think part (but not all by any means) of it is that the evolution of > phone game design is not progressing as fast as the evolution of > hardware capabilities. This being due to the incredibly rapid rate at > which hardware capabilities increase. In the past, game hardwares have > been relatively stable and largely driven by capabilities developers > wanted. With phones, it's the other way around. Definitely a unique > problem. > > Licensing (with the possible exception of sports games) have always > been a "iffy" prospect where you have to weigh the cost of the license > with the cost of development, and hopefully some mitigation of risk > when compared against original ip. Some have succeeded, many have > failed regardless of platform. You still have to have a decent game. > Presumably, the cost of a license will be offset by the increased > sales right? Easier said than done! Especially on phones where the > value of a movie or TV license isn't the same as on other game platforms. > > dd > > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez wrote: > Yeah, as DrDon said, mobile industry, as chaotic as it is (no more > than the PC), has yet to find its Command n Conquers, its WoWs or > whatever, a game which represents the mobile industrys finest. > > Licensed games dont always sell that well. I remember reading > something on Gamasutra a while ago saying the LOTR mobile game(s?) > bombed in the face of simpler, classinc titles like Tetris or > Parcheese. Licenses are good. Taking inspiration from classics also > is, but mobile games are a kind of it own (mainly because of the > horrible, inconsistent human interfaces), and should be treated as such. > > A couple of years ago nobody gave a dime for Touch-screen games, and > now the DS prints money. GPS, SMS, the microphone and the Camera are > great interfaces which offer great possibilities, but are still pretty > much unexplored. > > > On 3/7/07, *DrDon* wrote: > > IMHO - the killer-app game for mobile has yet to be made (as many > point out). > > dd > > ? wrote: > Hi all, > > I saw last year's TOP 50 games (according ELSPA) and the speech of Trip > Hawkins in GDC, and I went to sleep with a question biting my head last > night: Is there a future for original mobile games? > > > As we can see, most of downloaded games are adaptations from Console/PC > games or those using TV show brands. As Hawkins said, only 5% of mobile > customer download a game and, coincidentally, 5% of mobile customers are > > console/PC gamers (or ex-gamers). Maybe that would explain why the most > downloaded games are remakes of console/PC ones. > > We know that it is too expensive to keep getting brands to create a new > game. Only big companies, like EA, Ubisoft and others, that already got > > their own big brands, do not have big costs to worry with. > > So, I would like to listen to some opinions about this. > > PS: The article can be found at: > > _http://www.mobileindustry.biz/article.php?article_id=2327 > _ > PS2: The ELSPA article can be found at: > http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/01/elspas_2006_lis.html > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > -- > > *Don Diekneite > * > *Sonaural Audio Studios > * > (408)799-6123 > > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > -- > Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez > Blue River S.A. > > TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 > MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > -- > > > *Don Diekneite > **Sonaural Audio Studios > *(408)799-6123 > Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > From titus at rabenauge.com Thu Mar 8 04:07:28 2007 From: titus at rabenauge.com (Titus Grothaus) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 10:07:28 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45EFD250.8060803@rabenauge.com> hello, after reading the entries in this interesting discussion, I just ask myself, if it is really just a meaning of licenses or own titles which are obstacles for a better success with mobile games. Compared to the core market on pc for mainstream or casual games the support of the up-to-date standart in hardware is always a few steps behind that what could be possible (on mobile). Perhaps it is short-sighted just to focus on the biggest amount on supported mobiles. I still believe a satisfied player plays again. Where is the fun in a game, if it is running in a speed of a slideshow? Titus Grothaus www.rabenauge.com Christopher Kassulke schrieb: > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com GmbH > > > From bvolk at mynumo.com Thu Mar 8 14:20:05 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:20:05 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EFCE05.2070906@ikkyou.com> Message-ID: The situation in the USA is similar, sales are almost entirely on new handsets. Much of that is driven by the harsh reality of the infamous MMetrics statistic ">70% of mobile game customers never buy a 2nd mobile game." So, yes ... Ideally you would focus on new popular handsets. The catch is, IF you want to get on deck, the mobile operators (in the USA) will require you to be on a large % of the handset models they sell, including older ones. Back in 2005 that meant supporting stuff like s30 handsets etc... I'm sure that today you would be required to have s40 versions of a title to get on deck. In the USA you're on deck or you're dead in the water. You CAN distribute games off deck (I have). With P-SMS billing etc... The question is, how do you drive the marketing for a product with a $4.99 retail price and a COGS of $2.40+? I think the answer is, you have to tie the marketing to some vehicle that is driving impressions. Tripp Hawkins had some harsh words for the Mobile Game industry about the margins etc... Worth reading: http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/25966/GDC-Mobile-Hawkins-speaks-out-against-l icence-holders Content may be king, but Content Distribution is KING KONG. William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com > From: John Bridges > > The real issue isn't necessarily that you don't want to build a game for all > those handsets, its the prohibitive cost. In the current market I would say > that you should probably have 3 development streams - 1 for Series 40 alike > handsets, 1 for mid-range and 1 for high end. The problem is the cap on > sales price for the game is ?5/?5 and in reality if you're going to build a > high-end Symbian game you really want to charge ?10 - ?15. My hunch is that > for Symbian content you won't significantly dampen your audience at that > price but you will make a LOT more money - this is the ballpark for alot of > Blackberry content after all. How significant is the s40 market nowadays > though ? If you look at the UK market for example, deck sales are almost > entirely driven by handsets 1 - 2 years old. From mobilesig.igda.org at acroband.com Sat Mar 10 14:40:43 2007 From: mobilesig.igda.org at acroband.com (Tom Park) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:40:43 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] 70% of game buyers don't buy a second game References: Message-ID: <033d01c7634b$feb377e0$1b02a8c0@caipirovo> Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games> The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second game. Hi William, Do you have the source/date/market for the metric above? I'd like to be able to quote the source for this particular phenomenon. If it came from Telephia or M:Metrics, I'd especially like to know which one gave that data. Earlier this week, Telephia publicly released numbers showing game downloaders grew by 45% while revenue grew by 60% in the past year, but the numbers are a little odd. If you count only the difference in the past few quarters, gamers grew by 36% against revenue growth of only 12%. But I don't see this is conclusive for the stat you gave. Thanks much, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: William Volk To: Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to an off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the USA are sold from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off deck, but it was dependent on the success of a (real) card game to drive sales. The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second game. William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/f2b887a2/attachment.htm From bvolk at mynumo.com Sat Mar 10 15:10:01 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:10:01 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] 70% of game buyers don't buy a second game In-Reply-To: <033d01c7634b$feb377e0$1b02a8c0@caipirovo> Message-ID: Mmetrics. Widely reported. http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=126397 From: Tom Park > The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second game. Hi William, Do you have the source/date/market for the metric above? I'd like to be able to quote the source for this particular phenomenon. If it came from Telephia or M:Metrics, I'd especially like to know which one gave that data. Earlier this week, Telephia publicly released numbers showing game downloaders grew by 45% while revenue grew by 60% in the past year, but the numbers are a little odd. If you count only the difference in the past few quarters, gamers grew by 36% against revenue growth of only 12%. But I don't see this is conclusive for the stat you gave. Thanks much, Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: William Volk > > To: Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > > > Eventually the market or a large publisher (EA?) will make the move to an > off-deck strategy. Right now the vast majority of titles in the USA are sold > from the decks. I had a strategy in 2004/5 for going off deck, but it was > dependent on the success of a (real) card game to drive sales. > > The bigger worry, 70% of people who buy a mobile game never buy a second > game. > > William Volk > CEO, MyNuMo > 858 692 1124 > Create It, Show It, SELL IT! > http://www.mynumo.com _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/fdd6e4d4/attachment.html From civax at mobilegd.com Sat Mar 10 18:55:55 2007 From: civax at mobilegd.com (Ohad Barzilay) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:55:55 +0200 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <45EFD250.8060803@rabenauge.com> Message-ID: <20070310235727.DE17CAE43@mailwash7.pair.com> Nice to see the progress of this thread. I?ll take a little different view on the issue. With the increasing number of smartphones and handheld devices, game developers can now try to market their "Cellphone" games through the channels of the "Handheld" games. I know more then a few studios that stopped developing and porting for the "Cellphone" market and focus their efforts on the "Smartphones / Handheld" market, and doing quite well. This means that you can still create original games and sell well. Of course, you'll sell less units and you?ll have to do your own marketing, but if you have a good game, you'll earn well from it (instead of the peanuts we earn on every cellphone game unit). And so far, the big licenses aren't as common on this market as they are on the cellphones. There is enough time to develop your brands on these devices, and since they are becoming more and more the mainstream, you?ll be able to gradually build your own original IP gradually. Cheers, --- Ohad Barzilay, Mobile Game Developer Magazine, Editor HYPERLINK "http://www.mobilegd.com"http://www.mobilegd.com [You can HYPERLINK "http://www.linkedin.com/in/civax"join my network at LinkedIn] -----Original Message----- From: Titus Grothaus [mailto:titus at rabenauge.com] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:07 AM To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games hello, after reading the entries in this interesting discussion, I just ask myself, if it is really just a meaning of licenses or own titles which are obstacles for a better success with mobile games. Compared to the core market on pc for mainstream or casual games the support of the up-to-date standart in hardware is always a few steps behind that what could be possible (on mobile). Perhaps it is short-sighted just to focus on the biggest amount on supported mobiles. I still believe a satisfied player plays again. Where is the fun in a game, if it is running in a speed of a slideshow? Titus Grothaus www.rabenauge.com Christopher Kassulke schrieb: > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com GmbH > > > _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007 9:24 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070311/71bb939a/attachment.htm From jorgegs at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 19:06:53 2007 From: jorgegs at gmail.com (Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:06:53 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: <20070310235727.DE17CAE43@mailwash7.pair.com> References: <45EFD250.8060803@rabenauge.com> <20070310235727.DE17CAE43@mailwash7.pair.com> Message-ID: Hey Ohad, Sounds interesting. Are there any whitepapers around where we could take a look at the standards in the handheld industry? We're cellphone devs, but the market is changing so fast it's dizzying. Does anyone know anything about devving for Ipod? We just heard EA has a handful of games out. Is the devkit open as in J2ME or is it all pay-n-see? cheers, Jorge. On 3/10/07, Ohad Barzilay wrote: > > > > Nice to see the progress of this thread. > > > > I'll take a little different view on the issue. > > > > With the increasing number of smartphones and handheld devices, game > > developers can now try to market their "Cellphone" games through the > > channels of the "Handheld" games. I know more then a few studios that > > stopped developing and porting for the "Cellphone" market and focus their > > efforts on the "Smartphones / Handheld" market, and doing quite well. > > > > This means that you can still create original games and sell well. Of > course, > > you'll sell less units and you'll have to do your own marketing, but if > you > > have a good game, you'll earn well from it (instead of the peanuts we earn > on > > every cellphone game unit). And so far, the big licenses aren't as common > on > > this market as they are on the cellphones. > > > > There is enough time to develop your brands on these devices, and since > they > > are becoming more and more the mainstream, you'll be able to gradually > build > > your own original IP gradually. > > > > Cheers, > > > > --- > > Ohad Barzilay, > > Mobile Game Developer Magazine, Editor > > http://www.mobilegd.com > > > > [You can join my network at LinkedIn] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Titus Grothaus [mailto:titus at rabenauge.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:07 AM > To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > > > > hello, > > > > after reading the entries in this interesting discussion, I just ask > > myself, if it is really just a meaning of licenses or own titles which > > are obstacles for a better success with mobile games. Compared to the > > core market on pc for mainstream or casual games the support of the > > up-to-date standart in hardware is always a few steps behind that what > > could be possible (on mobile). Perhaps it is short-sighted just to focus > > on the biggest amount on supported mobiles. > > I still believe a satisfied player plays again. Where is the fun in a > > game, if it is running in a speed of a slideshow? > > > > Titus Grothaus > > > > www.rabenauge.com > > > > Christopher Kassulke schrieb: > > > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. > Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the > operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > > > > > > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > > > > > Christopher > > > > > > > > > > > > Christopher Kassulke > > > CEO > > > www.handy-games.com GmbH > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mobile_Games mailing list > > Mobile_Games at igda.org > > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007 > 9:24 AM > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/2007 > 6:53 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/1e838fdb/attachment.html From jon at jonpeddie.com Sat Mar 10 19:31:40 2007 From: jon at jonpeddie.com (Jon Peddie) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:31:40 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/c82bad3b/attachment.htm From jon at jonpeddie.com Sat Mar 10 19:37:17 2007 From: jon at jonpeddie.com (Jon Peddie) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:37:17 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] 70% of game buyers don't buy a second game In-Reply-To: <033d01c7634b$feb377e0$1b02a8c0@caipirovo> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/643ec48b/attachment.htm From jon at jonpeddie.com Sat Mar 10 19:39:51 2007 From: jon at jonpeddie.com (Jon Peddie) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:39:51 -0800 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] 70% of game buyers don't buy a second game In-Reply-To: <033d01c7634b$feb377e0$1b02a8c0@caipirovo> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070310/accc320e/attachment.html From christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com Mon Mar 12 03:23:39 2007 From: christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com (Christopher Kassulke) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:23:39 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Message-ID: Ipod as well as the iphone are closed you cannot develop for it. Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. M?rz 2007 01:07 An: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Hey Ohad, Sounds interesting. Are there any whitepapers around where we could take a look at the standards in the handheld industry? We're cellphone devs, but the market is changing so fast it's dizzying. Does anyone know anything about devving for Ipod? We just heard EA has a handful of games out. Is the devkit open as in J2ME or is it all pay-n-see? cheers, Jorge. On 3/10/07, Ohad Barzilay wrote: Nice to see the progress of this thread. I'll take a little different view on the issue. With the increasing number of smartphones and handheld devices, game developers can now try to market their "Cellphone" games through the channels of the "Handheld" games. I know more then a few studios that stopped developing and porting for the "Cellphone" market and focus their efforts on the "Smartphones / Handheld" market, and doing quite well. This means that you can still create original games and sell well. Of course, you'll sell less units and you'll have to do your own marketing, but if you have a good game, you'll earn well from it (instead of the peanuts we earn on every cellphone game unit). And so far, the big licenses aren't as common on this market as they are on the cellphones. There is enough time to develop your brands on these devices, and since they are becoming more and more the mainstream, you'll be able to gradually build your own original IP gradually. Cheers, --- Ohad Barzilay, Mobile Game Developer Magazine, Editor http://www.mobilegd.com [You can join my network at LinkedIn] -----Original Message----- From: Titus Grothaus [mailto: titus at rabenauge.com ] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:07 AM To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games hello, after reading the entries in this interesting discussion, I just ask myself, if it is really just a meaning of licenses or own titles which are obstacles for a better success with mobile games. Compared to the core market on pc for mainstream or casual games the support of the up-to-date standart in hardware is always a few steps behind that what could be possible (on mobile). Perhaps it is short-sighted just to focus on the biggest amount on supported mobiles. I still believe a satisfied player plays again. Where is the fun in a game, if it is running in a speed of a slideshow? Titus Grothaus www.rabenauge.com Christopher Kassulke schrieb: > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com > GmbH > > > _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007 9:24 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070312/1103313d/attachment.html From christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com Mon Mar 12 03:24:44 2007 From: christopher.kassulke at handy-games.com (Christopher Kassulke) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:24:44 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Message-ID: some good links for that discussion: http://mobilegames.blogs.com/mobile_games_blog/2007/03/open_discussion.html#comments http://wireless.ign.com/articles/772/772003p1.html ________________________________ Von: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] Im Auftrag von Ohad Barzilay Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. M?rz 2007 00:56 An: 'Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List' Betreff: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games Nice to see the progress of this thread. I'll take a little different view on the issue. With the increasing number of smartphones and handheld devices, game developers can now try to market their "Cellphone" games through the channels of the "Handheld" games. I know more then a few studios that stopped developing and porting for the "Cellphone" market and focus their efforts on the "Smartphones / Handheld" market, and doing quite well. This means that you can still create original games and sell well. Of course, you'll sell less units and you'll have to do your own marketing, but if you have a good game, you'll earn well from it (instead of the peanuts we earn on every cellphone game unit). And so far, the big licenses aren't as common on this market as they are on the cellphones. There is enough time to develop your brands on these devices, and since they are becoming more and more the mainstream, you'll be able to gradually build your own original IP gradually. Cheers, --- Ohad Barzilay, Mobile Game Developer Magazine, Editor http://www.mobilegd.com [You can join my network at LinkedIn] -----Original Message----- From: Titus Grothaus [mailto:titus at rabenauge.com] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:07 AM To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games hello, after reading the entries in this interesting discussion, I just ask myself, if it is really just a meaning of licenses or own titles which are obstacles for a better success with mobile games. Compared to the core market on pc for mainstream or casual games the support of the up-to-date standart in hardware is always a few steps behind that what could be possible (on mobile). Perhaps it is short-sighted just to focus on the biggest amount on supported mobiles. I still believe a satisfied player plays again. Where is the fun in a game, if it is running in a speed of a slideshow? Titus Grothaus www.rabenauge.com Christopher Kassulke schrieb: > As long the market is closed the market will not grow significant. Growth comes by opening the market. I bet it will be soon cause the operators have to do something soon to get more data traffic! > > > > Just my 2eurocents, > > Christopher > > > > Christopher Kassulke > CEO > www.handy-games.com GmbH > > > _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/2007 9:24 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070312/a8404147/attachment.htm From jamunoz at unkasoft.com Mon Mar 12 08:38:18 2007 From: jamunoz at unkasoft.com (Juan Antonio) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:38:18 +0100 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F549BA.7060304@unkasoft.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/mobile_games/attachments/20070312/931b3ddf/attachment.html From vishal at theportinglab.com Mon Mar 12 10:27:20 2007 From: vishal at theportinglab.com (The Porting Lab) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:57:20 +0530 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile_Games Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5 References: Message-ID: <021c01c764b2$8d4d05e0$4800a8c0@Fardeen> Hi all, If you need to get your game out to the top handsets as well as the handsets that comprise of "the long tail" - you should contract out professional porting services of a company that has been there and done that. I'd like to directly offer the porting services of ThePortingLab.com located in India. We're experienced at this game - and match our closest compaetitors costs by over 40% lower. We do this by efficiently porting content at high speeds, and effectively driving the cost out of the system. We can port to over 700 handsets currently. Vishal Lamba CEO Chakra Interactive Pvt Ltd || The Porting Lab Mobile Games and Mobile Application Porting & Game Development Services http://www.chakrainteractive.com http://www.theportinglab.com _____________________________________________________________________ || || Chakra Interactive Pvt. Ltd. || The Porting Lab || 17/18 Metro House, Colaba Causeway- S.B. Marg, Mumbai 1, India || Ph +91-22-22029736, +91-22-22029732 || Fax +91-22-22029728 (m) 98202-14079 ||_____________________________________________________________________ Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Mobile_Games Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5 > Send Mobile_Games mailing list submissions to > mobile_games at igda.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mobile_games-request at igda.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mobile_games-owner at igda.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Mobile_Games digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Future of mobile games (William Volk) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:20:05 -0800 > From: William Volk > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Future of mobile games > To: Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The situation in the USA is similar, sales are almost entirely on new > handsets. Much of that is driven by the harsh reality of the infamous > MMetrics statistic ">70% of mobile game customers never buy a 2nd mobile > game." > > So, yes ... Ideally you would focus on new popular handsets. > > The catch is, IF you want to get on deck, the mobile operators (in the > USA) > will require you to be on a large % of the handset models they sell, > including older ones. > > Back in 2005 that meant supporting stuff like s30 handsets etc... I'm > sure > that today you would be required to have s40 versions of a title to get on > deck. In the USA you're on deck or you're dead in the water. > > You CAN distribute games off deck (I have). With P-SMS billing etc... > > The question is, how do you drive the marketing for a product with a $4.99 > retail price and a COGS of $2.40+? > > I think the answer is, you have to tie the marketing to some vehicle that > is > driving impressions. > > Tripp Hawkins had some harsh words for the Mobile Game industry about the > margins etc... Worth reading: > > http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/25966/GDC-Mobile-Hawkins-speaks-out-against-l > icence-holders > > Content may be king, but Content Distribution is KING KONG. > > William Volk > CEO, MyNuMo > 858 692 1124 > Create It, Show It, SELL IT! > http://www.mynumo.com > >> From: John Bridges >> >> The real issue isn't necessarily that you don't want to build a game for >> all >> those handsets, its the prohibitive cost. > > In the current market I would say >> that you should probably have 3 > development streams - 1 for Series 40 alike >> handsets, 1 for mid-range > and 1 for high end. > > The problem is the cap on >> sales price for the game is ?5/?5 and in > reality if you're going to build a >> high-end Symbian game you really want > to charge ?10 - ?15. My hunch is that >> for Symbian content you won't > significantly dampen your audience at that >> price but you will make a LOT > more money - this is the ballpark for alot of >> Blackberry content after all. > > How significant is the s40 market nowadays >> though ? If you look at the > UK market for example, deck sales are almost >> entirely driven by handsets > 1 - 2 years old. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > End of Mobile_Games Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5 > ******************************************* From brad at sonaural.com Mon Mar 12 13:49:36 2007 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:49:36 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Interactive Audio Experts Publish Mobile Audio Recommendations Message-ID: <45F592B0.8050902@sonaural.com> Valuable for everyone in this group if you are concerned with quality audio. ================== Interactive Audio Experts Publish Mobile Audio Recommendations Free document recommended for all IC manufacturers, mobile application developers, handset manufacturers, mobile carriers, and mobile content developers San Francisco, CA - March 7, 2007. The Interactive Audio Special Interest Group (IASIG; www.IASIG.org) is publishing the final version of its mobile audio recommendations. The result of many years of work by the organization's Mobile Audio Working Group (MAWG), the document will be made available on the IASIG website shortly after the 2007 Game Developers Conference (March 5-9). Started by Peter Drescher of Danger, Inc., the Mobile Audio Recommendations document snowballed into a massive group effort by the MAWG. The group consists of sound designers, musicians, and experts from a wide range of mobile industry companies including AM3D, Beatnik, Danger, MadWaves, Philips Semiconductor, QSound, Sonaural, and Texas Instruments. The new document makes many recommendations designed to address problems commonly faced by mobile application developers. It specifies the minimum number of voices a mobile device should have, provides a listing of currently available mobile technologies, and offers tips on scaling audio for broader compatibility. IASIG chairman Kurt Heiden reveals, "This document was born from the frustration of inconsistent playback platforms and performance in the mobile market. It speaks well of the IASIG membership that they have been able to so comprehensively bring to light the problems facing audio creation on mobile platforms-and then outline solutions." The IASIG 2007 Mobile Audio Recommendations document will be available free of charge and is recommended for all IC manufacturers, mobile application developers, handset manufacturers, mobile carriers, and others in the mobile industry. About the Interactive Audio Special Interest Group Since 1994, the Interactive Audio Special Interest Group (www.IASIG.org) has existed to enable developers of audio software, hardware, and content to freely exchange ideas about interactive audio. Its goal is to improve the performance of interactive applications by influencing hardware, software, and tool design. The IASIG provides resources in the form of standards creation and maintenance, research reports, and recommended practices, and has helped numerous multimedia companies define their directions for the future. Anyone with a commercial interest in multimedia audio is encouraged to become a member and participate in IASIG discussions. Media Contact Kurt Heiden (kurt at iasig.org) IASIG Steering Committee Chair -- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com +1 (408) 799-6124 From wfischer at airplay.com Mon Mar 12 19:49:25 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:49:25 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] test Message-ID: I'm having trouble posting, trying to figure out why. From wfischer at airplay.com Mon Mar 12 19:51:16 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:51:16 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi Message-ID: I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been on the list lurking for a while. I'm a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games. I'm interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important. I'd be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. -Wendy Fischer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wfischer at airplay.com Mon Mar 12 19:52:54 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:52:54 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] User experience design & usability for mobile games Message-ID: Here's something that I posted last week, but it didn't get posted due to my email setup. I'd be interested to find out what others have to say. Hi, I'm a user experience designer and game designer working with a mobile gaming company. I'm doing some research of what current mobile industry trends are in usability and user experience design. I've written a short little questionnaire below. If you have time, please answer the questions and send them back to me. I'll put together a summary and send it out to the group at the end.. 1) Who is doing the game design for your mobile game? 2) How much of a priority is usability and user experience when designing and developing mobile games? 3) Who designs the user interface/user experience for your mobile game? 4) Do you conduct usability tests on mobile games? 5) How much playtesting do you conduct on mobile games? 6) Who conducts your playtesting? 7) Do you outsource any usability testing and/or user experience design? 8) If you were hiring for a mobile game designer position, what skillsets do you you like to see?. If you have a job description, it would be great if you could send it to me. -Wendy Fischer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wfischer at airplay.com Tue Mar 13 17:50:17 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So I'm just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there's not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games.... ________________________________ From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been on the list lurking for a while. I'm a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games. I'm interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important. I'd be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. -Wendy Fischer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad at sonaural.com Tue Mar 13 18:14:11 2007 From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:14:11 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F72233.20107@sonaural.com> Wendy Fischer wrote: > So I?m just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there?s > not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games?. I think it's more that not many people visit or post here. -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124 From mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 13 18:56:23 2007 From: mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com (mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:56:23 +0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To make things better is quite easy you just have to make the usability and user experience more intuitive such as to reduce the learning curve. But I've got no clue how to do that. Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless handheld -----Original Message----- From: "Wendy Fischer" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 To:"Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List" Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi So I?m just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there?s not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games?. ? ---------------- From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi ? I just wanted to introduce myself.? ? I?ve been on the list lurking for a while. ? I?m a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games.? I?m interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important.? I?d be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. ? -Wendy Fischer ? _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games From bvolk at mynumo.com Tue Mar 13 20:02:49 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:02:49 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Before you make this incredibly broad generalization. I was lecturing on usability and user experience at GDC (1994) before you could spell usability. Just kidding. Opening from my (in)famous talk: "The Interface is the Game" William Volk That's a strong statement. Consider the substance of a computer game (for the sake of compactness, I'm grouping video and computer games together.... since a video game console is a computer in hiding, a Sega Genesis and a Macintosh SE even use the same CPU). What do we see? It's like a television (often it is a television) with changing images and sometimes sounds (text is a image). We watch television. We play computer games. Play in this context is interaction. Watching blocks fall, some into place, some not, may be entertainment ... but it's not Tetris?... unless you can effect the orientation and location of where the blocks fall. This sounds obvious (it is obvious) but it's often obscured by worthwhile concerns about production values (the quality of the imagery, animation, audio, dialog, and music in a production). If the Interaction is what separates a passive experience from an interactive one, then it can be argued that the 'game' is the Interface. Or to mimic a famous computer programming paradigm: Interfaces + Production Elements = Games. From: Wendy Fischer Reply-To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 -0700 To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Conversation: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi So I?m just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there?s not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games?. From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi I just wanted to introduce myself. I?ve been on the list lurking for a while. I?m a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games. I?m interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important. I?d be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. -Wendy Fischer _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wfischer at airplay.com Tue Mar 13 20:06:24 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:06:24 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry sometimes I'm into making broad generalizations when I'm ________________________________ From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of William Volk Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:03 PM To: Mobile Game Dev SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi Before you make this incredibly broad generalization. I was lecturing on usability and user experience at GDC (1994) before you could spell usability. Just kidding. Opening from my (in)famous talk: "The Interface is the Game" William Volk That's a strong statement. Consider the substance of a computer game (for the sake of compactness, I'm grouping video and computer games together.... since a video game console is a computer in hiding, a Sega Genesis and a Macintosh SE even use the same CPU). What do we see? It's like a television (often it is a television) with changing images and sometimes sounds (text is a image). We watch television. We play computer games. Play in this context is interaction. Watching blocks fall, some into place, some not, may be entertainment ... but it's not Tetris(tm)... unless you can effect the orientation and location of where the blocks fall. This sounds obvious (it is obvious) but it's often obscured by worthwhile concerns about production values (the quality of the imagery, animation, audio, dialog, and music in a production). If the Interaction is what separates a passive experience from an interactive one, then it can be argued that the 'game' is the Interface. Or to mimic a famous computer programming paradigm: Interfaces + Production Elements = Games. ________________________________ From: Wendy Fischer Reply-To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 -0700 To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Conversation: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi So I'm just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there's not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games.... ________________________________ From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been on the list lurking for a while. I'm a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games. I'm interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important. I'd be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. -Wendy Fischer ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com Tue Mar 13 20:14:52 2007 From: bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com (Billy Cain) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:14:52 -0500 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070314001513.A5388AE49@mailwash7.pair.com> I'll bite. I lurk a lot too, Wendy... :) Critical Mass Interactive provides this type of feedback to developers as a service. We've worked on more than 175 games and I can tell you it is a huge issue. My main concern is that many games are so bad that gamers are never going to download another because there is no 'real' quality mark as far as a mobile game goes... yet. Remember the old 'Nintendo Seal of Quality?' :) Is there a particular type of feedback you are looking for or is this a general plea for best practices? Open for discussion! Billy Cain VP of Development / Geek Critical Mass Interactive, Inc 7427 North Lamar Blvd., Suite #200 Austin, TX 78752 (512) 219-1600 voice (512) 219-1976 fax www.criticalmassinteractive.com CMI is currently sponsoring: - GameCamp!: http://www.gamecamp.org - Texas Independent Game Conference: http://www.txindiegamecon.com/ Link our networks: http://www.linkedin.com Our contact info always synched in Outlook: http://www.plaxo.com -----Original Message----- From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:56 PM To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi To make things better is quite easy you just have to make the usability and user experience more intuitive such as to reduce the learning curve. But I've got no clue how to do that. Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless handheld -----Original Message----- From: "Wendy Fischer" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 To:"Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List" Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi So I?m just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there?s not much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games . ? ---------------- From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi ? I just wanted to introduce myself.? ? I?ve been on the list lurking for a while. ? I?m a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games.? I?m interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is very important.? I?d be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. ? -Wendy Fischer ? _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games _______________________________________________ Mobile_Games mailing list Mobile_Games at igda.org http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games From bvolk at mynumo.com Tue Mar 13 20:21:33 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:21:33 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: <20070314001513.A5388AE49@mailwash7.pair.com> Message-ID: Mr. Cain is right. With over 70% of mobile game customers NEVER buying a 2nd title, there is a serious problem here. FWIW: Mobile video revenue now exceeds mobile game revenue (Telphia) even though very few phones support video. The root causes are IMHO: 1. On-Deck sales dominance and interface favor titles with a recognizable ... Title. 2. Cost of porting takes $$$ away from design and development. 3. Carriers require broad handset support for deck placement. I hear good things about Nokia N-Gauge initiative. Thoughts? William Volk CEO, MyNuMo 858 692 1124 Create It, Show It, SELL IT! http://www.mynumo.com > From: Billy Cain > Reply-To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:14:52 -0500 > To: 'Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi > > I'll bite. I lurk a lot too, Wendy... :) > > Critical Mass Interactive provides this type of feedback to developers as a > service. We've worked on more than 175 games and I can tell you it is a huge > issue. > > My main concern is that many games are so bad that gamers are never going to > download another because there is no 'real' quality mark as far as a mobile > game goes... yet. Remember the old 'Nintendo Seal of Quality?' :) > > Is there a particular type of feedback you are looking for or is this a > general plea for best practices? > > Open for discussion! > Billy Cain > > VP of Development / Geek > Critical Mass Interactive, Inc > 7427 North Lamar Blvd., Suite #200 > Austin, TX 78752 > (512) 219-1600 voice > (512) 219-1976 fax > www.criticalmassinteractive.com > > CMI is currently sponsoring: > - GameCamp!: http://www.gamecamp.org > - Texas Independent Game Conference: http://www.txindiegamecon.com/ > Link our networks: http://www.linkedin.com > Our contact info always synched in Outlook: http://www.plaxo.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of mike_ch_1 at hotmail.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:56 PM > To: Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi > > To make things better is quite easy you just have to make the usability and > user experience more intuitive such as to reduce the learning curve. But > I've got no clue how to do that. > Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless handheld > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Wendy Fischer" > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:50:17 > To:"Mobile Game Development SIG Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi > > So I?m just guessing from the underwhelming lack of response, there?s not > much concern about usability and user experience in mobile games?. > > ? > > > > ---------------- > > From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] > On Behalf Of Wendy Fischer > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:51 PM > To: mobile_games at igda.org > Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi > > ? > > I just wanted to introduce myself.? > > ? > > I?ve been on the list lurking for a while. > > ? > > I?m a user interface designer who designs mobile applications and games.? > I?m interested in doing more game design, and would be interested in > speaking with developers who are interested in user interface design for > mobile and game design. I think that usability for mobile applications is > very important.? I?d be interested in hearing otherss thoughts on what they > do to improve the user experience and usability of their mobile games. > > ? > > -Wendy Fischer > > ? > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > From wfischer at airplay.com Tue Mar 13 20:35:43 2007 From: wfischer at airplay.com (Wendy Fischer) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:35:43 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: <20070314001513.A5388AE49@mailwash7.pair.com> Message-ID: I've been working on mobile games for over a year, and I've been doing mobile interface design for a couple of years. I think there's a couple of things - 1) What the state of user interface design and usability in the mobile gaming industry? From my observation, while usability and user experience is a big concern, there doesn't seem to be a lot of industry support for user experience design and usability in the mobile software development process. The focus is on shipping ASAP, not taking some extra time, following a user centered design process, doing usability testing and shipping later. 2) Are mobile gaming companies employing UX designers? Most demos I've seen of products seem to be designed by a developer or a product manager, not a designer. A presentation at Mobile Monday comes to mind where a DChoc product manager with a development background designed the UI. 3) What are companies currently doing to improve the user experience of mobile games? Obviously there's many design issues and factors associated with mobile games, with multiple phones, multiple mobile OS's, porting, multiple development platforms, variations on the network experience (Verizon vs. sprint, for example) that can impact game design for multiplayer games.....I can go on -- there's so many, that impact the design of the game that it makes it difficult to design one usable user experience that can be utilized across all the phones and carriers. -----Original Message----- From John.Bridges at ikkyou.com Tue Mar 13 21:02:15 2007 From: John.Bridges at ikkyou.com (John Bridges) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:02:15 +0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F74997.9050006@ikkyou.com> "A presentation at Mobile Monday comes to mind where a DChoc product manager with a development background designed the UI." You make that sound like a bad thing ... a very provocative statement. 1. How many usability designers are there with mobile UI backgrounds ? 2. Surely Nokia must use professional UI designers, yet (IMHO) many of their recent phones have stunk. 3. Many of the usability issues surrounding mobile games are actually out of the hands of the developers - e.g. first encounter on a Symbian 2 or 3 Nokia - download game, save game ... um where did it go ? Applications ? My Own ? At the bottom of some random menu ? 4. There are probably issues around designing your own interfaces - but budgets for most mobile games are so limited they can barely afford the developers. There will be a budget for a games designer, who will hopefully have some experience designing for the mobile platform. 5. Sometimes UI design is driven by market example - even if its an inappropriate interface for mobile keypads. Same as Windows - not necessarily the best interface in the world but once people are used to it ... Wendy Fischer wrote: > I've been working on mobile games for over a year, and I've been doing > mobile interface design for a couple of years. > > I think there's a couple of things - > > 1) What the state of user interface design and usability in the mobile > gaming industry? From my observation, while usability and user > experience is a big concern, there doesn't seem to be a lot of industry > support for user experience design and usability in the mobile software > development process. The focus is on shipping ASAP, not taking some > extra time, following a user centered design process, doing usability > testing and shipping later. > > 2) Are mobile gaming companies employing UX designers? Most demos I've > seen of products seem to be designed by a developer or a product > manager, not a designer. A presentation at Mobile Monday comes to mind > where a DChoc product manager with a development background designed the > UI. > > 3) What are companies currently doing to improve the user experience of > mobile games? > > Obviously there's many design issues and factors associated with mobile > games, with multiple phones, multiple mobile OS's, porting, multiple > development platforms, variations on the network experience (Verizon vs. > sprint, for example) that can impact game design for multiplayer > games.....I can go on -- there's so many, that impact the design of the > game that it makes it difficult to design one usable user experience > that can be utilized across all the phones and carriers. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > From don at sonaural.com Wed Mar 14 00:09:25 2007 From: don at sonaural.com (DrDon) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:09:25 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45F77575.1020801@sonaural.com> As an old arcade guy, phones share a number of UI/design issues with arcade games both in terms of the interface as well as overall game design. One of the biggest design constraints that affected UI and controls for arcade games was the need to get no less than $.25/minute in order for the game earn enough to be worth an operator's investment. Phone games have a similar though not so obvious constraint (among many others). You have to grab the player fairly immediately. I think this is where most phone games fall short. Part of it is due to UI and usability but a significant part is due to poor design for the platform. User experience design and usability is only part of it. Is there a difference between a user experience designer and a game designer? It may well be that phone game companies could benefit from at least some consulting with a good HCI or UI person. One problem I've noticed is that many games do not know how to live on such a tiny screen. I'd be really curious to know what aspects of UI you see as falling short. dd Wendy Fischer wrote: > I've been working on mobile games for over a year, and I've been doing > mobile interface design for a couple of years. > > I think there's a couple of things - > > 1) What the state of user interface design and usability in the mobile > gaming industry? From my observation, while usability and user > experience is a big concern, there doesn't seem to be a lot of industry > support for user experience design and usability in the mobile software > development process. The focus is on shipping ASAP, not taking some > extra time, following a user centered design process, doing usability > testing and shipping later. > > 2) Are mobile gaming companies employing UX designers? Most demos I've > seen of products seem to be designed by a developer or a product > manager, not a designer. A presentation at Mobile Monday comes to mind > where a DChoc product manager with a development background designed the > UI. > > 3) What are companies currently doing to improve the user experience of > mobile games? > > Obviously there's many design issues and factors associated with mobile > games, with multiple phones, multiple mobile OS's, porting, multiple > development platforms, variations on the network experience (Verizon vs. > sprint, for example) that can impact game design for multiplayer > games.....I can go on -- there's so many, that impact the design of the > game that it makes it difficult to design one usable user experience > that can be utilized across all the phones and carriers. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile_Games mailing list > Mobile_Games at igda.org > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/mobile_games > > -- *Don Diekneite* *Sonaural Audio Studios* (408)799-6123 Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrea.fryer at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 02:31:49 2007 From: andrea.fryer at gmail.com (Andrea Fryer) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:31:49 +0200 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Hi In-Reply-To: <45F77575.1020801@sonaural.com> References: <45F77575.1020801@sonaural.com> Message-ID: <47e063740703132331q13e87756q42c2c8857ec087b8@mail.gmail.com> Did someone say usability? Interface design? Nokia. *perks up* And before I go any farther, I simply must tell you how endearing I find the word "grouchy". They have a word for it in Finnish as well: "k?rttyinen" which is nearly as cute. Welcome to the list Wendy. If we're all being quiet, it's most likely because a whole wallop of people were at GDC and are still recovering, or then there's the rest of us who didn't get to go and are still pouting. I regret to admit I'm one of the pouters. I hope you'll forgive us. ;-) Wendy asked: "What the state of user interface design and usability in the mobile gaming industry?" When I used to work at Nokia creating user interfaces, the most commonly used word in our discussions was USABILITY. Now after having worked at Digital Chocolate for a year, one will often hear usability being mentioned, but even more so PLAYABILITY. When it comes to games, this pretty much equals the same thing, doesn't it? Point being, I think that even though mobile game developers are more conscious about the playability of their games, they are - without realizing it - including usability at the same time. I think the developers talk the same language as you Wendy, it's just that they are using a different word for it. Or can someone think of a game which had excellent playability yet the usability sucked? I don't really think they can co-exist. Wendy said: "A presentation at Mobile Monday comes to mind where a DChoc product manager with a development background designed the UI." I'm sure there are some games which are spawned through different people working in the studios of Dchoc, who naturally have a strong say in how they want their "creation" to look and feel. Those who are producers and product managers are most likely in that position because they've already mastered the skills developers are still learning - so I definitely don't see anything strange in that type of scenario you describe. But at least so far, all the projects I've been in, it's been the whole development team thinking about these things together. Especially the leads of game design, art and programming wrestle with these issues on a daily basis in their work. Why I can think of several usability related issues we were tackling yesterday alone. Wendy said: "there's so many, that impact the design of the game that it makes it difficult to design one usable user experience that can be utilized across all the phones and carriers." *sighs grimly* Aye indeed, at times it causes quite a bit of distraught to know that you -could- implement something on 8/10 phones which would increase usability (and playability) drastically, but due to that 2/10 you simply can't, and have to settle for a poorer solution. It kills me all the time, believe me. John wrote: "Surely Nokia must use professional UI designers" * Yes sir-ree. At least in all the projects I was involved in (9500, 9300, N76 cover UI), there were a whole group of UI designers assigned . In addition, a group of graphic designers separately. So these roles certainly didn't equal to the same thing, as can be commonly found I'm sure. Projects involved both research and usability testing. Wendy you seem knowledged about the mobile game platform restrictions and you are also a UI designer. In your eyes, what are the most blatant, obvious faults in usability you see, which you know could be definitely improved upon by developers? - Andrea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgegs at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 11:41:36 2007 From: jorgegs at gmail.com (Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:41:36 -0300 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] US Deck Message-ID: I suppose most of you who know a lot about this (or help built it) will be reluctant to answer such a thing, but we are kind of discovering this "deck" thing on the US market (we never sold our products there and it's the first time we hear of such a thing). My question is... is it possible to get a good quality, lenghty, feature packed, game on deck even if it bears no license? And the second question is, what is the name of the companies which hold the gates to this "deck", since in the US 'content aggregators' don't seem to matter a lot. Not the companies themselves, but the name of the type of company, so as too google up for them. We've talked to a number of US companies, but it was always a dead end. The US and Brazil are weird markets, and we haven't been able to break in them so far (We are selling in brazil, through a main channel, but the sales are almost non-existant, compared to the size and activity of their market) cheers, PD: William, you are right about "the interface is the game". If the interface is cumbersome, the game is broken and hence no fun. You can see that easily in 3D softwhere, whereas people using the good ones have fun doing stuff, while the ones using crappier software get angry and confused at the UI all the time. Both want to do the same, and know that the fun is there, but one of them sees it too far off and ends up quitting. Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Spencer.Nelson at infospace.com Thu Mar 15 05:50:51 2007 From: Spencer.Nelson at infospace.com (Spencer Nelson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:50:51 -0000 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] US Deck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jorge, The decks are run by the carriers (ie: Sprint, Verizon, etc.) so they are also the ones holding the keys here. I'm not in the marketing/sales side of things, but as far as I'm aware we are (regrettably) still having to go direct to the carriers in order to get deck placement. Best of luck, Spencer Nelson ________________________________ From: mobile_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:mobile_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 3:42 PM To: mobile_games at igda.org Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] US Deck I suppose most of you who know a lot about this (or help built it) will be reluctant to answer such a thing, but we are kind of discovering this "deck" thing on the US market (we never sold our products there and it's the first time we hear of such a thing). My question is... is it possible to get a good quality, lenghty, feature packed, game on deck even if it bears no license? And the second question is, what is the name of the companies which hold the gates to this "deck", since in the US 'content aggregators' don't seem to matter a lot. Not the companies themselves, but the name of the type of company, so as too google up for them. We've talked to a number of US companies, but it was always a dead end. The US and Brazil are weird markets, and we haven't been able to break in them so far (We are selling in brazil, through a main channel, but the sales are almost non-existant, compared to the size and activity of their market) cheers, PD: William, you are right about "the interface is the game". If the interface is cumbersome, the game is broken and hence no fun. You can see that easily in 3D softwhere, whereas people using the good ones have fun doing stuff, while the ones using crappier software get angry and confused at the UI all the time. Both want to do the same, and know that the fun is there, but one of them sees it too far off and ends up quitting. Jorge Gonzalez Sanchez Blue River S.A. TEL. +54 (11) 4777-9431 MOV. +54 (911) 6167-5412 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bvolk at mynumo.com Fri Mar 23 14:09:59 2007 From: bvolk at mynumo.com (William Volk) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:09:59 -0700 Subject: [IGDA Mobile-SIG List] Mobile Games: Licenses Dominate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From Mocomnews: http://www.moconews.net/entry/419-mobile-gaming-licensing-vs-original-ip-npd -group/ "NPD Group has released some figures for mobile game usage in the US, showing incremental growth. One thing that stood out is a chart of the top-selling mobile games for the second half of 2006 (below), and whether they were based on licensed brands or original IP." See the chart: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/430778226_26fe0897a2_o.jpg Even the 'original' Namco titles are ports of popular arcade games. Why? DISTRIBUTION IS DESTINY If the only thing customers see (in the on-deck catalog) is 40 characters of a title's name ... Then familiar names are what will sell. More from the report: "While 20 percent of mobile users played games on their handset only a bit less than 4 percent downloaded a mobile game in Q4, up from just over 3 percent in the second quarter of 2006. The biggest challenge for the industry is showing mobile game players the value of downloading mobile games. There was nearly $107 million in mobile game-related revenue in the fourth quarter of 2006, according to NPD, which was beaten only by SMS ($482 million) and ringtone downloads ($172 million). The average sale price for mobile games was $3.79, although when free games are taken out of the equation the average sale price rose to $4.41. "