From warlords at punkass.com  Thu Dec 28 09:52:18 2006
From: warlords at punkass.com (andy)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:52:18 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
Message-ID: <001701c72a8f$f2f65bb0$9700a8c0@SERVER>

hi all.

 Well I spent most of yesterday and this morning finding a way to make 
floppy disk images using Teledisk, boy was that a painful process..... (3 
versions of teledisk later, and using a 486dx4-75 laptop to get it 
working..) so now i have some disks made up, i want to get my 9100 to boot 
them.. but can i heck.

 Late last night i'm sure i saw a pdf that had a software install procedure, 
but i can't for the life of me find it now, i have looked on flippers again 
for it, but can't find it, forest for the trees...

 can anyone let us know how to make the 9100 boot from floppy, or remind me 
of the pdf file that i saw so i can just get on with it myself? this is 
driving me crackers...

 ultimately i am going to try to upgrade my system software from 4.1 to 6.0 
(i searched TTL and found that the 6.1 disk images are bad - john can you 
mark these as bad in the ftp? i wasted quite a bit of time before finding 
this out heh) and also upgrade the feeble 2mb ram to 4mb or whatever i can 
get to work... i also need to get the videocard that i have installed to 
work too.... but first things first i want to get the software upgraded....

thanks!

Andy 



From ayeckley at sierralobo.com  Thu Dec 28 10:13:26 2006
From: ayeckley at sierralobo.com (Alex Yeckley)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:13:26 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
In-Reply-To: <001701c72a8f$f2f65bb0$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <000c01c72a92$b9b817f0$3678a8c0@SLI.LOCAL>

> i searched TTL and found that the 6.1 disk images are bad

Are you sure?  They extracted onto floppies just fine for me, but I haven't
used them to update my OS yet.

Alex
----
ayeckley at elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com




From artfromny at nycap.rr.com  Thu Dec 28 10:15:06 2006
From: artfromny at nycap.rr.com (Art Mallet - Artfromny)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:15:06 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
References: <001701c72a8f$f2f65bb0$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <001101c72a92$f4f88cf0$37ea4142@Art>

I have complete hardcopy docs for the 9100 which I would be glad to lend to 
someone who can use them to answer these questions and come up with a 
protocol to make these disks easily.
I will pay postage out, recipient will pay postage back to me.  Gotta be at 
least 10 pounds of books.
No particular time frame on returning them, something like 45 or 60 days is 
ok with me
Art

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "andy" <warlords at punkass.com>
To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies


> hi all.
>
> Well I spent most of yesterday and this morning finding a way to make
> floppy disk images using Teledisk, boy was that a painful process..... (3
> versions of teledisk later, and using a 486dx4-75 laptop to get it
> working..) so now i have some disks made up, i want to get my 9100 to boot
> them.. but can i heck.
>
> Late last night i'm sure i saw a pdf that had a software install 
> procedure,
> but i can't for the life of me find it now, i have looked on flippers 
> again
> for it, but can't find it, forest for the trees...
>
> can anyone let us know how to make the 9100 boot from floppy, or remind me
> of the pdf file that i saw so i can just get on with it myself? this is
> driving me crackers...
>
> ultimately i am going to try to upgrade my system software from 4.1 to 6.0
> (i searched TTL and found that the 6.1 disk images are bad - john can you
> mark these as bad in the ftp? i wasted quite a bit of time before finding
> this out heh) and also upgrade the feeble 2mb ram to 4mb or whatever i can
> get to work... i also need to get the videocard that i have installed to
> work too.... but first things first i want to get the software 
> upgraded....
>
> thanks!
>
> Andy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Techtoolslist mailing list
> Techtoolslist at flippers.com
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
> 



From warlords at punkass.com  Thu Dec 28 10:18:36 2006
From: warlords at punkass.com (andy)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:18:36 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
References: <000c01c72a92$b9b817f0$3678a8c0@SLI.LOCAL>
Message-ID: <000a01c72a93$741300b0$9700a8c0@SERVER>

Sure, they extracted just fine for me too, made some dics up without 
problems...

but from searching TTL it looks like they don't work when they're actually 
used on the 9100 :

http://www.vectorlist.org/TechTools/2004/03/0000.html

of course, i havn't got even to that stage yet because i can't get my 9100 
to boot from floppy, i had assumed putting the disk in and switching on it 
should find the disk and try to run off that, but no luck for me trying 
that...

any thoughts?

Andy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Yeckley" <ayeckley at sierralobo.com>
To: "'Technical Tools Mail List'" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies


>> i searched TTL and found that the 6.1 disk images are bad
>
> Are you sure?  They extracted onto floppies just fine for me, but I 
> haven't
> used them to update my OS yet.
>
> Alex
> ----
> ayeckley at elektronforge.com
> www.elektronforge.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Techtoolslist mailing list
> Techtoolslist at flippers.com
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist 



From Corey at Stup.net  Thu Dec 28 11:21:05 2006
From: Corey at Stup.net (Corey Stup)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:21:05 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
In-Reply-To: <000a01c72a93$741300b0$9700a8c0@SERVER>
References: <000c01c72a92$b9b817f0$3678a8c0@SLI.LOCAL>
	<000a01c72a93$741300b0$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <4593EEF1.1080604@Stup.net>


> of course, i havn't got even to that stage yet because i can't get my 9100 
> to boot from floppy, i had assumed putting the disk in and switching on it 
> should find the disk and try to run off that, but no luck for me trying 
> that...
>
> any thoughts?
>   
Make a set ofthe 6.0 images.  The 6.1's can't be trusted.  I have a set 
of 6.1 data, and honestly its minimally different from 6.0.  Somewhere I 
have notes that show which binaries/libraries have any differences at all.

Anyway, to boot from floppy, just hold down SOFTKEY-F2-F4 while 
booting.   It will skip the HD and attempt to load from floppy.



From markhooks at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 28 12:44:05 2006
From: markhooks at earthlink.net (Mark Hooks)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:44:05 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
Message-ID: <001f01c6e31d$4acacfc0$6500a8c0@D9H12R41>

"just hold down SOFTKEY-F2-F4 " Just to remind those trying this, you must 
first upgrade the ROMs on the PCB before that command works. I tried it with 
version 2 ROMs and it wouldn't recognize that series of keystrokes.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:21:05 -0500
From: Corey Stup <Corey at Stup.net>
Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
Message-ID: <4593EEF1.1080604 at Stup.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


> of course, i havn't got even to that stage yet because i can't get my 9100
> to boot from floppy, i had assumed putting the disk in and switching on it
> should find the disk and try to run off that, but no luck for me trying
> that...
>
> any thoughts?
>
Make a set ofthe 6.0 images.  The 6.1's can't be trusted.  I have a set
of 6.1 data, and honestly its minimally different from 6.0.  Somewhere I
have notes that show which binaries/libraries have any differences at all.

Anyway, to boot from floppy, just hold down SOFTKEY-F2-F4 while
booting.   It will skip the HD and attempt to load from floppy.




------------------------------



From warlords at punkass.com  Thu Dec 28 15:29:53 2006
From: warlords at punkass.com (andy)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 20:29:53 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
References: <001f01c6e31d$4acacfc0$6500a8c0@D9H12R41>
Message-ID: <004401c72abf$33306c00$9700a8c0@SERVER>

just tried it on my system (boot 2.1, software 4.1 (b)) and it did indeed 
boot from the v6 floppies i made up...

now what i need to do is to upgrade the system software on the unit itself 
from the v6 disks, as the softkey f2/f4 just let me boot from floppy that 
one time....

i will try out booting from other discs in the v6 package tomorrow to see if 
i cantransfer the system over.. once again, can anyone remember the pdf that 
had all these software upgrade instructions in? if i had that, i wouldn't 
need to keep bugging you all about it ;)

i'm stoked that i actually got it to boot from floppies, something that i 
thought wasn't possible without original discs :)

andy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Hooks" <markhooks at earthlink.net>
To: "Techtoolslist" <Techtoolslist at flippers.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies


> "just hold down SOFTKEY-F2-F4 " Just to remind those trying this, you must
> first upgrade the ROMs on the PCB before that command works. I tried it 
> with
> version 2 ROMs and it wouldn't recognize that series of keystrokes. 



From Corey at Stup.net  Thu Dec 28 16:12:13 2006
From: Corey at Stup.net (Corey Stup)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:12:13 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] booting 9100 from floppies
In-Reply-To: <004401c72abf$33306c00$9700a8c0@SERVER>
References: <001f01c6e31d$4acacfc0$6500a8c0@D9H12R41>
	<004401c72abf$33306c00$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <4594332D.6050907@Stup.net>

andy wrote:
> just tried it on my system (boot 2.1, software 4.1 (b)) and it did indeed 
> boot from the v6 floppies i made up...
>
> now what i need to do is to upgrade the system software on the unit itself 
> from the v6 disks, as the softkey f2/f4 just let me boot from floppy that 
> one time....
>
> i will try out booting from other discs in the v6 package tomorrow to see if 
> i cantransfer the system over.. once again, can anyone remember the pdf that 
> had all these software upgrade instructions in? if i had that, i wouldn't 
> need to keep bugging you all about it ;)
>
>   
You just use "copy disk" from the menu to copy the system and userdisks 
from DR1 to HDR, it will copy all the files from the floppys to the HD, 
overwriting whatever you have on there currently.  There is no automated 
install or anything.



From warlords at punkass.com  Sat Dec 30 09:30:03 2006
From: warlords at punkass.com (andy)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:30:03 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
Message-ID: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>

hi all... again.

 Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if 
anyone else has come across this before.

 Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting 
'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a 
calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far:

 It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and 
copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed 
to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then 
proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a 
mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last 
error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants a 
full list of error codes, let me know...

 So, someone suggested formatting the hard disk, booting from floppies, and 
copying them  over again... so i duly booted from the service disk, and 
formatted the drive, choosing option 5 - no dma. two options, 4 dma, 5 no 
dma... wasn't sure what to pick and couldn't find any info in the manuals 
about this. picked 5, and formatted. After doing a physical format / 
verification, results were : 74 bad (sectors) - 19.13mb available. I booted 
the v6.0 floppies and went to copy DR1 to HDR, and immediately got a write 
error....

 So i got bored and I upgraded the roms in my machine (from 27256 V3.0 to 
27c512 V5.0) thinking it might help, can't make the problem worse i thought 
:)

 I then retried the process again and it still failed.. So i checked if this 
was a system disk copying problem, or a general hard disk writing problem, i 
went into 'setup | save system settings in userdisk' and got the very same 
write error, indicating it must be a global hdisk writing error, not a 
problem with just the disk copying section.

 So then i booted to the service disk, and formatted the hard disk once 
again, but this time took option 4 - dma... same as above, booted in from 
floppies and i still get the write error.

 I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon 
floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the 
service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with 
this write error all the time now..

 i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system 
had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error..

I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get 
the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first 
write it is failing on each time..


 Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no 
previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or 
the controller, or the software mis reporting it?

any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the 
system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, 
which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.

ta,

Andy.



From artfromny at nycap.rr.com  Sat Dec 30 09:36:09 2006
From: artfromny at nycap.rr.com (Art Mallet - Artfromny)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:36:09 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
References: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <001301c72c1f$d930c990$37ea4142@Art>

Please send me the error code list and I will post it on my site
Art

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "andy" <warlords at punkass.com>
To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors


> hi all... again.
>
> Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if
> anyone else has come across this before.
>
> Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting
> 'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a
> calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far:
>
> It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and
> copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed
> to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then
> proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a
> mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last
> error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants 
> a
> full list of error codes, let me know...
>
> So, someone suggested formatting the hard disk, booting from floppies, and
> copying them  over again... so i duly booted from the service disk, and
> formatted the drive, choosing option 5 - no dma. two options, 4 dma, 5 no
> dma... wasn't sure what to pick and couldn't find any info in the manuals
> about this. picked 5, and formatted. After doing a physical format /
> verification, results were : 74 bad (sectors) - 19.13mb available. I 
> booted
> the v6.0 floppies and went to copy DR1 to HDR, and immediately got a write
> error....
>
> So i got bored and I upgraded the roms in my machine (from 27256 V3.0 to
> 27c512 V5.0) thinking it might help, can't make the problem worse i 
> thought
> :)
>
> I then retried the process again and it still failed.. So i checked if 
> this
> was a system disk copying problem, or a general hard disk writing problem, 
> i
> went into 'setup | save system settings in userdisk' and got the very same
> write error, indicating it must be a global hdisk writing error, not a
> problem with just the disk copying section.
>
> So then i booted to the service disk, and formatted the hard disk once
> again, but this time took option 4 - dma... same as above, booted in from
> floppies and i still get the write error.
>
> I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon
> floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the
> service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with
> this write error all the time now..
>
> i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system
> had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error..
>
> I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get
> the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very 
> first
> write it is failing on each time..
>
>
> Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no
> previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or
> the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
>
> any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the
> system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing,
> which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
>
> ta,
>
> Andy.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Techtoolslist mailing list
> Techtoolslist at flippers.com
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
> 



From jrr at flippers.com  Sat Dec 30 12:30:50 2006
From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:30:50 -0800
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
In-Reply-To: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
References: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <p06230918c1bc5170b4b1@[192.168.0.101]>

At 2:30 PM +0000 12/30/06, andy wrote:
>hi all... again.
>
>  Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if
>anyone else has come across this before.
>
>  Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting
>'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a
>calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far:
>
>  It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and
>copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed
>to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then
>proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a
>mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last
>error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants a
>full list of error codes, let me know...
>...
>  I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon
>floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the
>service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with
>this write error all the time now..
>
>  i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system
>had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error..
>
>I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get
>the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first
>write it is failing on each time..
>
>
>  Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no
>previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or
>the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
>
>any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the
>system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing,
>which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
>
>ta,
>
>Andy.
>

Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL 
cover this as I recall... September to December 2002.

John :-#)#


From jrr at flippers.com  Sat Dec 30 12:51:26 2006
From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:51:26 -0800
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
In-Reply-To: <p06230918c1bc5170b4b1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
	<p06230918c1bc5170b4b1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <p06230919c1bc570202de@[192.168.0.101]>

>
>  >
>
>Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL
>cover this as I recall... September to December 2002.
>
>John :-#)#
>
>___

Best TTL archives are at http://www.vectorlist.org - you can search them!

John :-#)#


From warlords at punkass.com  Sat Dec 30 14:21:25 2006
From: warlords at punkass.com (andy)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 19:21:25 -0000
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
References: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
	<p06230918c1bc5170b4b1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <003601c72c48$4c2a3350$9700a8c0@SERVER>

>>any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the
>>system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing,
>>which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
>>
>>ta,
>>
>>Andy.
>>
>
> Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL
> cover this as I recall... September to December 2002.
>
> John :-#)#

well i havn't looked into a scsi disk upgrade until i hit this brick wall, 
because there was no need to... but now of course, i am already on the hunt 
for a suitable drive.

But like with old videogames, i'd like to give the original parts a decent 
chance at being fixed before going down the scsi route.. you know how it is, 
its all sitting on my bench right now and if i just put some effort in, i 
might beable to fix it... whereas the scsi route means finding a disk, 
getting a controller, getting it al to work on one of my pc's etc....  And 
like an old videogame i would (for now) like to try fixing the original 
hardware before sticking a 39-in-1 in there :P

Andy 



From Corey at Stup.net  Sat Dec 30 14:50:17 2006
From: Corey at Stup.net (Corey Stup)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:50:17 -0500
Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
In-Reply-To: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
References: <001e01c72c1f$039d3070$9700a8c0@SERVER>
Message-ID: <4596C2F9.2030402@Stup.net>


> I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get 
> the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first 
> write it is failing on each time..
>   
>  Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no 
> previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or 
> the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
>   
Not a good sign.  Bad drive or SCSI->MFM adaptor.   The error reporting 
being turned on is key, the format utility itself ignores most other 
errors except a bad sector 0.  

> any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the 
> system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, 
> which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
>   
Those Miniscribe drives are lucky they spin up at all anymore.   Most 
likely its the drive.   I have a pile of bad MFM drives from 9100's - 
the Seagates all suffer from stiction, the Miniscribes media starts 
failing (or the platter motor can't maintain accurate speed anymore)...

SInce you've already upgraded to the version 5.0 ROMs, get a used SCSI 
drive off eBay and replace it.  Plugs right into the SCSI controller you 
already have, just remove the SCSI->MFM adaptor mounted on the drive 
cage.  Much simpler design and one fewer point of failure.

Note that if you plan on using the Editor (with a keyboard/monitor) 
you'll need to stick below somewhere around a  400MB drive.   Theres a 
rollover bug where the free-space calculation is not accurate with 
larger disks.  I believe the largest drive I have in any of my 9100's 
from Fluke is 320MB.  I usually try and get one of the 1/2" height 
Quantums (like a LPS series), eBay usually has a selection of cheap 
pulls from old Macs.

I do have a good used Miniscribe or two if anyone needs an "original" 
setup.  No warranty of course, but its not DOA.