[Techtoolslist] leland off road pal dump needed u85

Thu Sep 8 00:18:54 EDT 2016

On 09/07/2016 7:54 AM, Fabrizio Vasile wrote:
> We are speaking of PAL and not bipolar PROM.
>
> Anyway, you CANNOT dump a  registered PAL with the ABI 4000 neither 
> with other PAL dumper.Among the other things the ABI dumping program 
> is heavely  based on the Charles MacDonald analysing program.Charles 
> is the desighner of the 27C020 PAL adapter and the standalone PAL dumper
>
> I think I have some experience with PAL since I'm (Caius) the 
> maintainer (along with my mate Porchy) of the PAL archive on 
> http://www.jammarcade.net/pal-dumps/
>
Well, my 16R4 PAL is appears to have the security bit set when I tried 
to read it on my Xeltek programmer it just gives me a block of 1s for a 
chunk of the memory map. Nothing else.

I have seen suggestions that one can decode the registered PALs with 
enough coding, but that is way beyond my abilities I'm afraid. I know 
Charles has worked on this on and off since at least 2006. Also his 
current reader will support registered PALs once he (and his pals) 
figure out how to do it!

http://www.techno-junk.org/ if you want to see where that is at.

As an  aside, it appears that PalToGal v3.12 works better than the 
PAL2GAL3.15 version I have on the TTL archives. I found a copy here:

http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/Pgmrs/GAL/jedec.htm

and it does give you a better interface for converting valid .jed files. 
I'll upload it later and remove 3.15.

Well, I guess I am having to stop work on reading my 16R4 for now, have 
many other jobs to do and as I have a good one the customer will be 
happy enough. Until it fails...

John ;-#)#

PS, I see you have dumped the 9100 SCSI PAL, great news! Thanks to 
Andrew for sharing this.
>
> Il 07/09/2016 16:36, Steve Larkins ha scritto:
>> I believe Tony is using the ABI to dump the contents of the PROM as 
>> pointed
>> out here:
>>
>> http://www.macros-arcade.com/paldump.htm
>>
>> On 7 September 2016 at 14:30, Fabrizio Vasile 
>> <fabrizio.vasile at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Neither 27C020 EPROM adapter and ABI 4000 can read secured registered
>>> PLDs.As I said, we can only try to read as PAL16R8 in a regular 
>>> programmer
>>> hoping it's unsecured.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il 07/09/2016 13:44, tony htbs ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> I tried to read it as a eprom did not work
>>>> And I have a abi 4000 and I can read it
>>>> I have not been able to compile the file I just get errors trying to
>>>> convert it
>>>> Need another program  for conversion
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> Hitech tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 2:45 AM, Fabrizio Vasile 
>>>> <fabrizio.vasile at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately there is no way to reverse registered secured PLDs 
>>>>> thru an
>>>>> automated process.All you can do is study the behaviour of the 
>>>>> device and
>>>>> try to reproduce it manually.Anyway, about this Leland Offroad 
>>>>> Track Pak
>>>>> PAL16R8, try to read it in a standard EPROM programmer which 
>>>>> supports this
>>>>> device, it could be unsecured.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Il 07/09/2016 03:17, John Robertson ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/16/2015 1:49 PM, Fabrizio Vasile wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il 16/03/2015 21:33, Clay Cowgill ha scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was aware of this possibility of dumping PLD like a normal 
>>>>>>>> EPROM but
>>>>>>>>> there could be issue with some programmers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Shouldn't be.  It's a five volt part and since you're not writing
>>>>>>>> data to
>>>>>>>> the part the lack of OE shouldn't be an issue.  (I suppose if 
>>>>>>>> you were
>>>>>>>> particularly concerned you could just buffer the output pins 
>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>> '244
>>>>>>>> connected to the 2716's CE's and OE.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /*I mean the programmer you are going to use for dumping a PLD as
>>>>>>> EPROM must *//**//*actually drive the pins both high and low for 
>>>>>>> this to
>>>>>>> work.Some programmers only drive LOW the pins and use pull-up 
>>>>>>> resistors to
>>>>>>> force them HIGH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, like Charles MacDonald explain here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dreamjam.co.uk/emuviews/old2009.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you can also read a PAL as a 27C020 EPROM using this simple 
>>>>>>> adapter:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dreamjam.co.uk/emuviews/temp/adapter2.png
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *//*/*You will get a 256KB dump that can be analized with his
>>>>>>> analysing software in order to recompile equations in a GAL16V8
>>>>>>> replacement*/
>>>>>>> */
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Clay
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back to reading PALs.
>>>>>> On a customers Leland Offroad Track Pak I have a PAL16R8 (08-2) to
>>>>>> read, and it was suggested here that the 16R8 could be read with the
>>>>>> correct technology:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://marc.info/?l=classiccmp&m=141212179614845&w=2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, has anyone here found a way to read the registered PALs? Or do I
>>>>>> just need to look a little harder on MAME to find the decrypted 
>>>>>> PAL images?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John :-#)#
>>>>>>
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