[casual_games] Advergaming

Wed Apr 12 16:58:19 EDT 2006

Thank you very much for your input Lennard.

Just to clarify though, I was using the term in the classic sense of building an entire game to promote something. However my game concept - the idea that's in my head - skewers the line a little bit because the concept itself could actually advertise, in this case, Iceland and its culture.

The game would be massive and we (Gogogic) would be risking a lot by funding it entirely by ourselves. This is why I wanted to pitch it as an advargame perhaps to a government body or big players of the travel industry - entities that would benefit from benign publicity for the country.

Of course all I really care about is the game and the concept that it is founded on ;-) I fully believe that the game itself would turn a profit when released but the development cost would hinder other projects that we are currently running.

Your point on Integrated Ads is, however, very well received. In fact this is something we've been working on ourselves so I completely understand your vision when it comes to IA. As my company is developing games on a relatively "rare" gaming platform (C# .NET 2.0 managed code, database connections and web service integration with Flash or other GUIs) we're uniquely positioned to include ads in our games since most of them are already connected to massive databases in some way and we are using our own Framework Foundation. It will shortly include a Framework for IA. I am still going to take a close look at your solution to see if it could integrate with or replace our own system while reducing cost.

Regarding project schedules, design and quality I would just like to say that one of my personal goals is to introduce game development with Enterprise Architecture, Design and Development procedures like SCRUM and XP. The founders of Gogogic have many years under their belt when it comes to building big ERP systems. I've personally designed a lot of systems using a lot of different procedures and I fully believe that my experience could prove useful when it comes to creating better project schedules, a more concrete design and better quality. In fact I've spent almost two years on researching how Enterprise Architecture and Design can be used for Casual Games. But that is a completely different story...

I would also like to thank those of you who pointed out that talking to Ad Agencies might be the way to go here. I truly hadn't really thought of pitching to them. I was thinking of going straight to the "end customer" but, of course, the companies I'm interested in all have huge Advertisement machines that handle things like this.

Regards,
Jónas Antonsson
CEO, Gogogic
jonas at gogogic.com
www.gogogic.com
www.jonasantonsson.com 

________________________________

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Lennard Feddersen
Sent: mið. 12.4.2006 19:26
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advergaming

If asked to define "advergaming" then I would agree with your
definition.   I looked at Jonas' blog and company site and felt that
this is an alternative he, and others like him who might not get picked
up by Massive, should know about.

There are a few problems with the business of advergaming from the
developers point of view.  The first is meeting the advertiser who can
actually afford real development time to build something credible - 10K
doesn't typically build you a compelling interactive experience but a
lot of the advertisers you talk to will talk about knocking out
something like Zuma, but better (of course), in a month or two.  The
tweak time with those green clients is going to cost you a lot of the
10K if you are paying a real engineers salary (not to mention the
producer to interface).  The second is that most of us would like to
still get the profits from the games we make - in fact most of us are in
this space because we don't want to work for corporations - we just want
more $ for the games we make and streaming ads can enable that.

 From the advertisers point of view there are a couple of problems as
well.  The first is that you need to lay out your cash on an unknown
quantity - you don't know when your game will be completed and what the
quality will be once done.  Insert software engineering schedule jokes
here.  Secondly, just to grab #'s, let's say you lay out 75K for a small
team to build you a product over the course of 6 months.  Once it's
done, and you've gotten your feet wet as an external producer, then you
still need to actually get the thing distributed - non-trivial if you
don't have a portal network.  Somehow you get the game distributed for
another 25K and get 100K downloads.  You, the advertiser, have paid a
dollar per game play if all of the if's above have been answered.

You don't have to use IA to enable this kind of system.  A streaming
server isn't that hard to whack together.  The thing about using IA is
that we don't take an exorbitant amount of the cash, we are working to
build a network so that those games that under or over perform have more
of a chance of actually meeting the advertisers needs (trying to meet
the ebb and flow of game play with a single title is tricky) and you
don't have to do the really time consuming thing - actually selling the ads.

My 2 cents,

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com

Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7

James C. Smith wrote:

>I am confused. I though "Advergaming" generally referred to games that were
>custom built (or reskinned) to promote a specific product or brand.  For
>example, Energizer would commission a game developer to make a game
>featuring the Energizer bunny.  It wouldn't be a game with an Energizer ad
>in it. It would be a whole game all about Energizer.  Isn't streaming
>billboard ads into a game a completely different subject than Advergaming?
>
>I don't want to debate the vocabulary and semantics. I just want to make
>sure Jónas gets advice on the topic he is interested in.
>
>--James
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
>On Behalf Of Lennard Feddersen
>Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:00 AM
>To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advergaming
>
>
>Anybody who is interested in this topic can email me directly as well. 
>I started Integrated Ads last year - www.IntegratedAds.com - with the
>goal of enabling casual game developers to ad. enable their games after
>or late in development with a minimum of dev. effort (link in a static
>library, make 3 calls, display 1 image).  You can see the system in use
>if you download the Battle Castles demo from www.RustyAxe.com.  I read
>the indie gamer forums every day and do the math.  From the #'s being
>reported,  there are a lot of indie developers who aren't making enough
>$ to get by on. I believe that advertising can play a bigger role in our
>industry segment since we give away so much content in the form of free
>demos and reduced cost games.  Both the Battle Castles demo and a
>reduced cost version of BC ship with advertising - players can still buy
>a premium cost version with ads removed.  I've recently been looking at
>the Arcade In A Box forums and a lot of gamers there felt disappointed
>that they had to pay $20 for a casual game (I know, tough cookies) and
>I've often had the same thought when I see the dev. $ we sink into a
>title versus those of premium companies.  There are a lot of games at my
>local Staples at the $20 price point that costs millions to develop -
>including Diablo, Warcraft and Baldurs Gate gamer packs and it's obvious
>to me why a lot of titles in our space aren't making their $ back. 
>These may be viable gaming experiences that are getting play.  The
>answer may well be to ad. advertising.
>
>Lennard Feddersen
>CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>www.RustyAxe.com
>
>Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>
>
>
>Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote:
>
> 
>
>>I recommend putting together a portfolio demonstrating your studios
>>game capabilities and sending to every ad agency you could find...then
>>let them tell you want they want...and all you have to do is tell them
>>how much.  Direct pitching to end users (the companies that actually
>>use the advergaming) is way too difficult and besides they all already
>>have ad agencies that they rely on to do this sort of thing.  So all
>>you really need in a few internal advocates within the agencies.  And
>>hip gamers who already "get it" in terms of the value of interactive
>>multimedia as a marketing tool are in those positions already.
>>
>>Tom B
>>
>>At 01:10 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>   
>>
>>>Hi.
>>>
>>>I was wondering what companies would be considered as "leading
>>>experts" in Advergaming? I need some advice since the concept isn't
>>>something I deal with on a regular basis and, thus, do not exactly
>>>know how to "pitch" properly. What are the "selling points", who
>>>should I consider as primary "targets" for an idea, etc.
>>>
>>>What do you generally think of Adwaregaming? Is it a "dirty" field or
>>>something that is going to grow and get better? Do games and
>>>advertising mix well?
>>>
>>>Some background on my thoughts can be found here:
>>>www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>. Basically I
>>>have an idea that would be rather expensive to implement. My gut
>>>feeling tells me that the idea is well suited for advergaming if I
>>>could pitch it to the right people and with the right points.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Jónas Antonsson
>>>CEO, Gogogic
>>>jonas at gogogic.com
>>>www.gogogic.com <http://www.gogogic.com/>
>>>
>>>www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> <
>>>http://www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Casual_Games mailing list
>>>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>>>     
>>>
>>¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
>>Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
>>The Game Attorney
>>T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
>>80 Southwest 8th Street
>>Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center
>>Miami, FL  33130
>>Tel (305) 324-6000
>>Fax (305) 324-1111
>>Toll Free 888-848-GLAW
>>http://www.gameattorney.com
>><http://www.gameattorney.com/> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
>>
>>
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