[casual_games] Advergaming

Wed Apr 12 17:10:27 EDT 2006

Mostly correct but the billing model is based upon ads delivered so the 
client only pays per game launch and it's more about the exposure from 
your demo than from your sold products.  That said, you are hitting upon 
one of our primary obstacles - the game demos achieve most of their 
distribution through portals and places like download.com where the 
advertising is currently not welcome - in the case of download.com the 
problem is that the SDK links to the advertisers web page when the demo 
completes.

I apologize to anyone who thought that Jonas was strictly interested in 
only advergaming dollars and feel that I hijacked the thread,

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com

Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7

Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote:

> Apples _ Advergames funded by a corporate client
>
> Oranges - Ingame Advertising - included in a game and providing 
> ancillary revenue to developer
>
> With Apples it is the client's problem to get the game out there.  
> Usually through their own channels - for example the little games that 
> go on movie sites to provide additional content when folks come 
> looking for info on the film.
>
> With Oranges, (as I understand it) if your game does not have decent 
> perpetration, IA is meaningless because without strong sales you are 
> not able to deliver the necessary "eyeballs" to get a decent earn 
> through.  If I have this part wrong, please elucidate Lennard.
>
> Tom B
>
> At 03:26 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
>
>> If asked to define "advergaming" then I would agree with your 
>> definition.   I looked at Jonas' blog and company site and felt that 
>> this is an alternative he, and others like him who might not get 
>> picked up by Massive, should know about.
>>
>> There are a few problems with the business of advergaming from the 
>> developers point of view.  The first is meeting the advertiser who 
>> can actually afford real development time to build something credible 
>> - 10K doesn't typically build you a compelling interactive experience 
>> but a lot of the advertisers you talk to will talk about knocking out 
>> something like Zuma, but better (of course), in a month or two.  The 
>> tweak time with those green clients is going to cost you a lot of the 
>> 10K if you are paying a real engineers salary (not to mention the 
>> producer to interface).  The second is that most of us would like to 
>> still get the profits from the games we make - in fact most of us are 
>> in this space because we don't want to work for corporations - we 
>> just want more $ for the games we make and streaming ads can enable that.
>>
>> From the advertisers point of view there are a couple of problems as 
>> well.  The first is that you need to lay out your cash on an unknown 
>> quantity - you don't know when your game will be completed and what 
>> the quality will be once done.  Insert software engineering schedule 
>> jokes here.  Secondly, just to grab #'s, let's say you lay out 75K 
>> for a small team to build you a product over the course of 6 months.  
>> Once it's done, and you've gotten your feet wet as an external 
>> producer, then you still need to actually get the thing distributed - 
>> non-trivial if you don't have a portal network.  Somehow you get the 
>> game distributed for another 25K and get 100K downloads.  You, the 
>> advertiser, have paid a dollar per game play if all of the if's above 
>> have been answered.
>>
>> You don't have to use IA to enable this kind of system.  A streaming 
>> server isn't that hard to whack together.  The thing about using IA 
>> is that we don't take an exorbitant amount of the cash, we are 
>> working to build a network so that those games that under or over 
>> perform have more of a chance of actually meeting the advertisers 
>> needs (trying to meet the ebb and flow of game play with a single 
>> title is tricky) and you don't have to do the really time consuming 
>> thing - actually selling the ads.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>>
>> Lennard Feddersen
>> CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>> www.RustyAxe.com <http://www.rustyaxe.com/>
>>
>> Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>> P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>> 3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>>
>>
>>
>> James C. Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I am confused. I though "Advergaming" generally referred to games 
>>> that were
>>> custom built (or reskinned) to promote a specific product or brand.  For
>>> example, Energizer would commission a game developer to make a game
>>> featuring the Energizer bunny.  It wouldn't be a game with an 
>>> Energizer ad
>>> in it. It would be a whole game all about Energizer.  Isn't streaming
>>> billboard ads into a game a completely different subject than 
>>> Advergaming?
>>>
>>> I don't want to debate the vocabulary and semantics. I just want to make
>>> sure Jónas gets advice on the topic he is interested in.
>>>
>>> --James
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [ 
>>> mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Lennard Feddersen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:00 AM
>>> To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advergaming
>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody who is interested in this topic can email me directly as well. 
>>> I started Integrated Ads last year - www.IntegratedAds.com 
>>> <http://www.integratedads.com/> - with the goal of enabling casual 
>>> game developers to ad. enable their games after or late in 
>>> development with a minimum of dev. effort (link in a static library, 
>>> make 3 calls, display 1 image).  You can see the system in use if 
>>> you download the Battle Castles demo from www.RustyAxe.com. 
>>> <http://www.rustyaxe.com.%A0/> I read the indie gamer forums every 
>>> day and do the math.  From the #'s being reported,  there are a lot 
>>> of indie developers who aren't making enough $ to get by on. I 
>>> believe that advertising can play a bigger role in our industry 
>>> segment since we give away so much content in the form of free demos 
>>> and reduced cost games.  Both the Battle Castles demo and a reduced 
>>> cost version of BC ship with advertising - players can still buy a 
>>> premium cost version with ads removed.  I've recently been looking 
>>> at the Arcade In A Box forums and a lot of gamers there felt 
>>> disappointed that they had to pay $20 for a casual game (I know, 
>>> tough cookies) and I've often had the same thought when I see the 
>>> dev. $ we sink into a title versus those of premium companies.  
>>> There are a lot of games at my local Staples at the $20 price point 
>>> that costs millions to develop - including Diablo, Warcraft and 
>>> Baldurs Gate gamer packs and it's obvious to me why a lot of titles 
>>> in our space aren't making their $ back. 
>>> These may be viable gaming experiences that are getting play.  The 
>>> answer may well be to ad. advertising.
>>>
>>> Lennard Feddersen
>>> CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>>> www.RustyAxe.com <http://www.rustyaxe.com/>
>>>
>>> Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>>> P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>>> 3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> I recommend putting together a portfolio demonstrating your studios
>>>> game capabilities and sending to every ad agency you could 
>>>> find...then let them tell you want they want...and all you have to 
>>>> do is tell them how much.  Direct pitching to end users (the 
>>>> companies that actually use the advergaming) is way too difficult 
>>>> and besides they all already have ad agencies that they rely on to 
>>>> do this sort of thing.  So all you really need in a few internal 
>>>> advocates within the agencies.  And hip gamers who already "get it" 
>>>> in terms of the value of interactive multimedia as a marketing tool 
>>>> are in those positions already.
>>>>
>>>> Tom B
>>>>
>>>> At 01:10 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>> I was wondering what companies would be considered as "leading
>>>>> experts" in Advergaming? I need some advice since the concept 
>>>>> isn't something I deal with on a regular basis and, thus, do not 
>>>>> exactly know how to "pitch" properly. What are the "selling 
>>>>> points", who should I consider as primary "targets" for an idea, etc.
>>>>> What do you generally think of Adwaregaming? Is it a "dirty" field or
>>>>> something that is going to grow and get better? Do games and 
>>>>> advertising mix well?
>>>>> Some background on my thoughts can be found here:
>>>>> www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> < 
>>>>> http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>. Basically I have an idea that 
>>>>> would be rather expensive to implement. My gut feeling tells me 
>>>>> that the idea is well suited for advergaming if I could pitch it 
>>>>> to the right people and with the right points.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jónas Antonsson
>>>>> CEO, Gogogic
>>>>> jonas at gogogic.com
>>>>> www.gogogic.com <http://www.gogogic.com/> < http://www.gogogic.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> < 
>>>>> http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> <
>>>>> http://www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> < 
>>>>> http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Casual_Games mailing list
>>>>> Casual_Games at igda.org 
>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
>>>> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
>>>> The Game Attorney
>>>> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
>>>> 80 Southwest 8th Street
>>>> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center
>>>> Miami, FL  33130
>>>> Tel (305) 324-6000
>>>> Fax (305) 324-1111
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>>>
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>
> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
> The Game Attorney
> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
> 80 Southwest 8th Street
> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center
> Miami, FL  33130
> Tel (305) 324-6000
> Fax (305) 324-1111
> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW
> http://www.gameattorney.com
> <http://www.gameattorney.com/> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
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>
> Confidential:  This email contains communications protected by the 
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