[casual_games] Advergaming
Colin Cardwell
colin at 3rdsense.com
Wed Apr 12 23:14:37 EDT 2006
Here's my 10 cents worth in this space....
I've been involved with creating advergames (games built to promote a brand)
for about 7 years now and I agree with what Brian said about advergaming. I
would go on to say that brands get involved with games in two main ways (in
my experience)...
1. You build a game based on achieving the brands marketing objectives.
A bespoke game built or the brand. As Brian said, this is not about slapping
a logo on an existing game it's about building a game from the ground up,
even if it is based on an existing game concept. This is about working with
Ad agencies and identifying campaigns where a game could work and developing
a game concept that will fit and then selling that in to the client. It is
never about having an idea and then trying to find the brand to fit the
idea. That sounds the most obvious, but in my experience it almost never
happens. The ad industry just doesn't work that way. What's more, building
an advergames business is a slow process. Big brands plan campaigns a long
time ahead and agencies take their time getting to know production companies
(of which an advergames developer is just one type of many) and there can be
pretty long lad times. I have worked on projects that took 15 months from
start of sales process to signed contract and then another 6 months before
the game went live for 6 weeks. However it was integrated with a TV
commercial, an interactive TV game, and an on pack promotion so it was cool,
work the wait and we made good money, it was slow.
2. The other way is when an agency has seen a cool game or online
concept and decides of their own free will that they want to do something
like that for one of their brands. In which case they will typically get in
touch with the developer and ask to license/buy/copy etc the concept. They
may just ask someone else to copy the idea. Considering they are supposed to
be 'creative' it amazes me how conservative the ad industry generally is.
They will mostly want to do something that has been proven, which by
definition means that it's not original, lol.
So, as you have an idea, which may well be really cool and even ground
breaking, I think it is unlikely that you'll get a brand taking it on board
unless...
1.) You pretend to listen to a brands needs and objectives and then come
up with your original concept and pretend it has been developed as an ideas
specially for them. You will have to do this quite a few times with quite a
few brands and ad agencies and it will take time before one says yes unless
you get lucky. Or...
2.) And this is the route I think would work best for you; create the
game/concept yourself, get it working and then make sure ad agencies and
brands play it and then follow it up. This again will take time and is
speculative but if you already have an idea you've kind of got to
demonstrate your belief in it by investing in it yourself. It is them worth
considering other potential revenue streams with your concept like
advertising or pay to play so that you make money while you wait for an
advertiser to get on board and/or you make money if an advertiser never
comes on board.
I guess the thing to bear in mind is that brands are approached all the time
both directly and through their ad agencies about ways to promote their
brand. There are many more ways to advertise than there are brands and
budgets available. There are ads everywhere these days and every advertising
opportunity has a sales teams pushing it to agencies and brands. There is a
lot of competition for the advertising dollar. In my experience, the way to
sell any kind of advertising is to be able to demonstrate the return on
investment.
The question you need to ask and be able to answer is not "What can my idea
get from a brand?" but "What can a brand get from my idea" and then be able
to back it up with some hard stats/facts.
All of this IMHO
Cheers
Colin
Colin Cardwell
The Person in Charge of Great Ideas
m +61 (0) 401 888 322
p +61 2 8923 1200
f +61 2 8904 9966
3RD sense Australia Pty Ltd
Unit 8.04
6a Glenn St
Milsons Point, NSW 2061
<http://www.3rdsense.com> www.3rdsense.com
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Jónas B. Antonsson
Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 6:58 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Advergaming
Thank you very much for your input Lennard.
Just to clarify though, I was using the term in the classic sense of
building an entire game to promote something. However my game concept - the
idea that's in my head - skewers the line a little bit because the concept
itself could actually advertise, in this case, Iceland and its culture.
The game would be massive and we (Gogogic) would be risking a lot by funding
it entirely by ourselves. This is why I wanted to pitch it as an advargame
perhaps to a government body or big players of the travel industry -
entities that would benefit from benign publicity for the country.
Of course all I really care about is the game and the concept that it is
founded on ;-) I fully believe that the game itself would turn a profit when
released but the development cost would hinder other projects that we are
currently running.
Your point on Integrated Ads is, however, very well received. In fact this
is something we've been working on ourselves so I completely understand your
vision when it comes to IA. As my company is developing games on a
relatively "rare" gaming platform (C# .NET 2.0 managed code, database
connections and web service integration with Flash or other GUIs) we're
uniquely positioned to include ads in our games since most of them are
already connected to massive databases in some way and we are using our own
Framework Foundation. It will shortly include a Framework for IA. I am still
going to take a close look at your solution to see if it could integrate
with or replace our own system while reducing cost.
Regarding project schedules, design and quality I would just like to say
that one of my personal goals is to introduce game development with
Enterprise Architecture, Design and Development procedures like SCRUM and
XP. The founders of Gogogic have many years under their belt when it comes
to building big ERP systems. I've personally designed a lot of systems using
a lot of different procedures and I fully believe that my experience could
prove useful when it comes to creating better project schedules, a more
concrete design and better quality. In fact I've spent almost two years on
researching how Enterprise Architecture and Design can be used for Casual
Games. But that is a completely different story...
I would also like to thank those of you who pointed out that talking to Ad
Agencies might be the way to go here. I truly hadn't really thought of
pitching to them. I was thinking of going straight to the "end customer"
but, of course, the companies I'm interested in all have huge Advertisement
machines that handle things like this.
Regards,
Jónas Antonsson
CEO, Gogogic
jonas at gogogic.com
www.gogogic.com
www.jonasantonsson.com
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Lennard Feddersen
Sent: mið. 12.4.2006 19:26
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advergaming
If asked to define "advergaming" then I would agree with your
definition. I looked at Jonas' blog and company site and felt that
this is an alternative he, and others like him who might not get picked
up by Massive, should know about.
There are a few problems with the business of advergaming from the
developers point of view. The first is meeting the advertiser who can
actually afford real development time to build something credible - 10K
doesn't typically build you a compelling interactive experience but a
lot of the advertisers you talk to will talk about knocking out
something like Zuma, but better (of course), in a month or two. The
tweak time with those green clients is going to cost you a lot of the
10K if you are paying a real engineers salary (not to mention the
producer to interface). The second is that most of us would like to
still get the profits from the games we make - in fact most of us are in
this space because we don't want to work for corporations - we just want
more $ for the games we make and streaming ads can enable that.
From the advertisers point of view there are a couple of problems as
well. The first is that you need to lay out your cash on an unknown
quantity - you don't know when your game will be completed and what the
quality will be once done. Insert software engineering schedule jokes
here. Secondly, just to grab #'s, let's say you lay out 75K for a small
team to build you a product over the course of 6 months. Once it's
done, and you've gotten your feet wet as an external producer, then you
still need to actually get the thing distributed - non-trivial if you
don't have a portal network. Somehow you get the game distributed for
another 25K and get 100K downloads. You, the advertiser, have paid a
dollar per game play if all of the if's above have been answered.
You don't have to use IA to enable this kind of system. A streaming
server isn't that hard to whack together. The thing about using IA is
that we don't take an exorbitant amount of the cash, we are working to
build a network so that those games that under or over perform have more
of a chance of actually meeting the advertisers needs (trying to meet
the ebb and flow of game play with a single title is tricky) and you
don't have to do the really time consuming thing - actually selling the ads.
My 2 cents,
Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com
Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
James C. Smith wrote:
>I am confused. I though "Advergaming" generally referred to games that were
>custom built (or reskinned) to promote a specific product or brand. For
>example, Energizer would commission a game developer to make a game
>featuring the Energizer bunny. It wouldn't be a game with an Energizer ad
>in it. It would be a whole game all about Energizer. Isn't streaming
>billboard ads into a game a completely different subject than Advergaming?
>
>I don't want to debate the vocabulary and semantics. I just want to make
>sure Jónas gets advice on the topic he is interested in.
>
>--James
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
>On Behalf Of Lennard Feddersen
>Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:00 AM
>To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [casual_games] Advergaming
>
>
>Anybody who is interested in this topic can email me directly as well.
>I started Integrated Ads last year - www.IntegratedAds.com - with the
>goal of enabling casual game developers to ad. enable their games after
>or late in development with a minimum of dev. effort (link in a static
>library, make 3 calls, display 1 image). You can see the system in use
>if you download the Battle Castles demo from www.RustyAxe.com. I read
>the indie gamer forums every day and do the math. From the #'s being
>reported, there are a lot of indie developers who aren't making enough
>$ to get by on. I believe that advertising can play a bigger role in our
>industry segment since we give away so much content in the form of free
>demos and reduced cost games. Both the Battle Castles demo and a
>reduced cost version of BC ship with advertising - players can still buy
>a premium cost version with ads removed. I've recently been looking at
>the Arcade In A Box forums and a lot of gamers there felt disappointed
>that they had to pay $20 for a casual game (I know, tough cookies) and
>I've often had the same thought when I see the dev. $ we sink into a
>title versus those of premium companies. There are a lot of games at my
>local Staples at the $20 price point that costs millions to develop -
>including Diablo, Warcraft and Baldurs Gate gamer packs and it's obvious
>to me why a lot of titles in our space aren't making their $ back.
>These may be viable gaming experiences that are getting play. The
>answer may well be to ad. advertising.
>
>Lennard Feddersen
>CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>www.RustyAxe.com
>
>Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>
>
>
>Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote:
>
>
>
>>I recommend putting together a portfolio demonstrating your studios
>>game capabilities and sending to every ad agency you could find...then
>>let them tell you want they want...and all you have to do is tell them
>>how much. Direct pitching to end users (the companies that actually
>>use the advergaming) is way too difficult and besides they all already
>>have ad agencies that they rely on to do this sort of thing. So all
>>you really need in a few internal advocates within the agencies. And
>>hip gamers who already "get it" in terms of the value of interactive
>>multimedia as a marketing tool are in those positions already.
>>
>>Tom B
>>
>>At 01:10 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi.
>>>
>>>I was wondering what companies would be considered as "leading
>>>experts" in Advergaming? I need some advice since the concept isn't
>>>something I deal with on a regular basis and, thus, do not exactly
>>>know how to "pitch" properly. What are the "selling points", who
>>>should I consider as primary "targets" for an idea, etc.
>>>
>>>What do you generally think of Adwaregaming? Is it a "dirty" field or
>>>something that is going to grow and get better? Do games and
>>>advertising mix well?
>>>
>>>Some background on my thoughts can be found here:
>>>www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>. Basically I
>>>have an idea that would be rather expensive to implement. My gut
>>>feeling tells me that the idea is well suited for advergaming if I
>>>could pitch it to the right people and with the right points.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Jónas Antonsson
>>>CEO, Gogogic
>>>jonas at gogogic.com
>>>www.gogogic.com <http://www.gogogic.com/>
>>>
>>>www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/> <
>>>http://www.jonasantonsson.com <http://www.jonasantonsson.com/>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Casual_Games mailing list
>>>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>>>
>>>
>>¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
>>Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
>>The Game Attorney
>>T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
>>80 Southwest 8th Street
>>Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center
>>Miami, FL 33130
>>Tel (305) 324-6000
>>Fax (305) 324-1111
>>Toll Free 888-848-GLAW
>>http://www.gameattorney.com
>><http://www.gameattorney.com/> ¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤
>>
>>
>>Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the
>>attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication
>>from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading
>>it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com
>>of this inadvertent misdelivery.
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Casual_Games mailing list
>>Casual_Games at igda.org
>>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Casual_Games mailing list
>Casual_Games at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>
>_______________________________________________
>Casual_Games mailing list
>Casual_Games at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 30118 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/casual_games/attachments/20060413/1afb6383/winmail-0001.bin
More information about the Casual_Games
mailing list