[casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars

Thu Aug 17 16:12:24 EDT 2006

Let me just say that I have *NO* problem with cloning either, and the market
certainly loves it - otherwise the 20+ (?) Zuma clones out there wouldn't be
hovering around top 10 lists all the time. I also agree that clones almost
never (I say almost, but I can't think of an example otherwise) do as well
as the originals. I think it's safe to say that when Zuma 2 comes out, it
will blow away every other clone in sales.

Again, the problem with GridWars is that the creator went out of his way to
make his game look exactly like Geometry Wars and then offered it for free
on a platform where GW doesn't exist yet. Download it and check the art
assets folder - can't tell the difference between the two. There's even some
blatant Star Wars gfx in there (Death Star, Millenium Falcon)! If he had
just spent the time to come up with new, original graphics, Bizarre probably
wouldn't be so upset.

Ben Lewis

Yatec Games

Marketing and Sales

(225)274-1550

 <mailto:blewis at yatecgames.com> blewis at yatecgames.com
http://www.yatecgames.com <http://www.yatecgames.com/> 

  _____  

From: Juan Gril [mailto:juangril at jojugames.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:17 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars

Thanks for you comments Ben. Just let me state this: I disagree with you,
Tom and everybody else who has an issue with cloning. Historically there has
never been a case in any form of media where the *exact* clone (more
properly called by you as "parasite") of an intellectual piece of property
have been as commercially succesful as the original one; not even partially
successful. And what most people call clones are innovations over existing
formulas, and this is what humans have been doing in *all* fields of thought
since man have learned to express himself.

The issue of the Geometry Wars "parasites" (not clones) can be fixed in a
week if Bizarre Creations and Microsoft would release Geometry Wars for PC.
It's their fault for missing the business opportunity.

And I have another issue with people who are upset about cloning and post
letters on their web sites as martyrs: none of them are able to say "all the
games I have created in my entire life are *truly* original".

But then again, we are all entitled to our opinions in this matter. Cheers,

Juan

  _____  

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Lewis
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:58 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars

From: Ben Lewis 
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:53 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: [casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars

Hi all,

We've all been through this discussion before ("Clones are deplorable!" vs.
"Hey, the market clearly wants them"), but Andy's right -- the issue here is
Geometry Wars: Evolved vs. GridWars. After playing GridWars for less than 10
seconds, anyone will realize why Bizarre Creations is a bit upset. This
isn't cloning, it's parasitism (see Allen Varney's
<http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/34/3> "Attack of the Parasites"
article). Even worse, actually!

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/grid/gw2.jpg
<http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/grid/gw2.jpg> 

The above picture is not Geometry Wars, but Mark Incitti's GridWars. I would
say I've never seen a more blatant copying of IP in my life, but the author
has made pixel-perfect copies of other games <http://www.incitti.com/Blitz/>
in Blitzmax and made them available online for free. Not a big deal
normally, except that Geometry Wars: Evolved is only available on the Xbox
360 and this game is excruciatingly similar (although it adds some new
weapons). Bizarre accordingly argues this could hurt sales, and it's time to
take GridWars off the web. Simple enough.

Tom's absolutely right about infringing on IP to this degree. Juan, I don't
think Bizarre speaking out against other games in the "Robotron"-type genre,
but rather something that makes a point to copy other IP pixel-for-pixel.
Anyone can make their own third-person shooter; when your protagonist is a
busty, treasure-seeking babe named "Lava Kroft," you have a
<http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines2809.html>  problem. 

Ben Lewis

Yatec Games

Marketing and Sales

(225)274-1550

 <mailto:blewis at yatecgames.com> blewis at yatecgames.com
http://www.yatecgames.com <http://www.yatecgames.com/> 

  _____  

From: Kevin Richardson [mailto:krichardson at iwin.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:12 PM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] It's about time!

Great observation. Thanks for broadening this discussion.

Kevin Richardson

www.iwn.com <http://www.iwn.com> 

  _____  

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Juan Gril
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:40 AM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [casual_games] It's about time!

Thomas said:

"It's about time that indies who create original IP stand up to the blatant
copycat BS that seems to be so acceptable in the casual market place."

Interesting. So what's the percentage of original titles shown at the E3
Expo this year?

What's the percentage of truly original TV shows for this fall?

What's the percentage of unique bands with a new type of music introduced in
the American Top 40 this year?

Cheers,

Juan

PS: From Wikipedia's Bizarre Creations entry:

"In 2006 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_in_video_gaming> , the studio
announced a departure from their usual racing genre
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_game_genres#Racing> . The
Club <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Club>  (working title) is a third
person shooter, announced on May 6 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_6> ,
2006 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006> ."

How new and original is "third person shooter"?

  _____  

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Thomas H. Buscaglia
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:17 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: [casual_games] It's about time!

Way to go Bizzare for enforcing your IP rights against clones of their great
game.  It's about time that indies who create original IP stand up to the
blatant copycat BS that seems to be so acceptable in the casual market
place. These is a big difference between being inspired and influenced by a
game and simply stealing it.  And anyone who says there is not is just
diluting themselves.  This epidemic can and should be stopped.  

I hope that their show of some real backbone catches on.  It is long over
due!

Tom B

At 10:27 AM 8/17/2006, you wrote:

There is a statement over at Bizarre Creations' website about why they are
taking action against developers who are cloning Geometry Wars.  They make
many valid points about gameplay and intellectual property.

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=219347
<http://www.bizarrecreations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=219347> 

-- 
andy makely 
_______________________________________________
Casual_Games mailing list
Casual_Games at igda.org
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games
<http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/casual_games>  

¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤ 
Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire
The Game Attorney
T. H. Buscaglia and Associates
80 Southwest 8th Street, Suite 2100
Miami, FL  33130
Tel (305) 324-6000
Fax (305) 324-1111
http://www.gameattorney.com <http://www.gameattorney.com/> 
¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤,¸¸,¤º°`°º¤ 

Confidential:  This email contains communications protected by the
attorney-client privilege and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
USC §§ 2510, et seq.   If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas
H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any
attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb at intelaw.com of this
inadvertent misdelivery.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/casual_games/attachments/20060817/d1651242/attachment.html