[casual_games] Just when you thought match-3 had been doneinevery way...

Jónas Björgvin Antonsson jonas at gogogic.is
Sun May 6 19:43:45 EDT 2007

Good point Juan.

I also think that the disconnection between "the casual audience" and "the core gamers" is overrated. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups. And I think that slowly but surely a bigger chunk of casual players will be people that were once considered core or hardcore players but their lifestyle has forced them to move on to simpler, shorter and more accessible games. This segment will introduce new requirements and demands.

J#

________________________________

From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Juan Gril
Sent: fim. 3.5.2007 03:29
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Just when you thought match-3 had been doneinevery way...


Interesting. Your argument is pretty much how the people into pen and paper RPGs discarded computer RPG games because they were so simple and dumbed down. Look where each is now, and if you can point me to a game critic who will disqualify a computer RPG because it doesn't have all the elements of pen and paper ones I'll say that's the perfect example of a critic disconnected with the audience.

Magic Jewelry and Sega Columns were created 11 years before Bejeweled. But neither was as accessible as Bejeweled is. Guess which one is going to end in history books 100 years from now.

Cheers,

Juan



On 5/2/07, Robert Headley <Rheadley at op-games.com> wrote:

Fair enough, but a lot of the concepts that the casual industry considers their own "Match 3 for example" came from the Core game industry. Originally is nice, but not just for the sake of it.



On 5/2/07, Juan Gril <juangril at jojugames.com> wrote:

Who said casual games can't include more challenging concepts? Why do you think that creating more challenging concepts means that we have to evolve into or bring game mechanics common in the core industry? In order for casual games to evolve in their gameplay we need to follow our own path. We need to create more Snapshots and more Out of Your Minds. And at the same time, we need to have the existing genres and game mechanics evolve. These two things (truly original games, and evolution of existing ones) have equal weight and are absolutely necessary.

I'm not against Puzzle Quest, or the fact that it can attract core users to Casual Games. And let's not get out of topic here. My point is that I would like the same respect for Cradle of Rome and Burger Rush than what Puzzle Quest is getting. Because one thing is that they don't like it, but another is to have a double standard.

Cheers,

Juan




On 5/2/07, Robert Headley < Rheadley at op-games.com <mailto:Rheadley at op-games.com> > wrote:

So casual games can't include any more challenging concepts than match 3? Its not good to underestimate the intelligence of the gamer. Besides, if Puzzle Quest brings in more hardcore gamers to the casual scene, I see that as a good thing.

Whats good for the industry is good for us.



On 5/2/07, Juan Gril < juangril at jojugames.com <mailto:juangril at jojugames.com> > wrote:

I think it's great that members of the core game industry and the core game press are so excited about Puzzle Quest. I do feel that it's a little disappointing that when Casual Game developers innovate over the match-3 mechanic (ie: Jewel Quest, Big Kahuna Reef, Burger Rush, Cradle of Rome), they call us "cloners". And then comes a traditional video game studio and puts RPG elements in a match-3 game and oh no, that's complete innovation.

And please don't get me wrong, I love Puzzle Quest. But I'm an ex-core gamer, and I've played core games for almost 20 years. So in reference of what Andy was saying, the RPG elements are not appealing to casual gamers. And it's because casual gamers don't have a reference of what an RPG is.

What the members of the core game industry and the core game press should realize is that they need to take out their tights and put some normal people clothes, so they can start looking at the entire world instead of considering what's good and what's not based on what their geek friends like.

Cheers,

Juan




On 5/2/07, James Terry < JTerry at yatecgames.com <mailto:JTerry at yatecgames.com> > wrote:

I think it really comes down to what qualifies as a clone or not. Is Bookworm Adventures a clone of Bookworm? Puzzle Quest and Bookworm Adventures are very good examples of taking a solid game mechanic and branching out into new territory with it instead of taking the base idea and doing an IP theme change.



It may not appeal to all of the fans of the games the mechanics were created from, but so long as it is bringing more fans into the mix, it is probably a good thing.



I'll try waiting for the PC release of Puzzle Quest.



James R. Terry
Yatec, LLC
11606 Southfork, Suite 300
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816
(225) 274-1550 Ext. 136
www.yatecgames.com <http://www.yatecgames.com/>




________________________________


From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto: casual_games-bounces at igda.org <mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org> ] On Behalf Of Robert Headley
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:23 PM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Just when you thought match-3 had been done inevery way...



The game is also coming out for Xbox Live Arcade, and I plan to buy it, when it comes out for that

Just as Puzzle quest might not appeal to some fans of Bejeweled, it will appeal to other players, and perhaps, for a longer time then bejeweled allowed. I almost think its unfair to call this level of remixing, a clone.



On 5/2/07, Andy Makely <rendermouse at gmail.com> wrote:

We often complain about how game mechanics can get cloned to death, and it's refreshing to see someone take an old favorite and completely turn it on its head and make an amazing game.

I'm talking about Puzzle Quest for DS and PSP. I just got it for DS, and I can't stop playing it. Take your standard role-playing game, and make the battle mode a gem-swapping match-3 where each character takes a turn. New quests, improved character abilities, acquiring magic items, capturing enemy spells, etc. all depend upon you succeeding on the match-3 battle grid. This game has even hardcore console gamers raving about it.

Of course, the trouble is that Puzzle Quest may have crossed the "casual game" line. One person I know, who is a big Bejeweled fan, wasn't interested in PQ because of all the extra role-playing elements of the game. It was a layer of complexity they felt like they didn't need. Maybe it's not "casual" enough for some.

What do you folks think? How do you expand on basic, established game mechanics without adding so much that it drives players away?

If you're curious, there's a PC demo available from their site...even though there is no PC version for sale.
http://www.infinite-interactive.com/puzzlequest/


--
andy makely
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