[casual_games] Casual Game Framework
Tom Hubina
tomh at mofactor.com
Tue May 29 13:31:00 EDT 2007
The original poster asked about casual games, and based on the engine
choices he was considering seems to be looking at the PC/Mac market. Others
have already covered what I would say on that topic and I don't feel like
repeating them. Both you and the other poster suggested that having the
engine selection should be, at least in part, based on availability of a
mobile version of the engine and I was disagreeing with that part.
I don't have a suggestion for a useful, unified mobile/pc/console engine
just like I don't have a suggestion for building a perpetual motion machine
and I don't think it's unreasonable to debunk folks trying to tout such a
thing as a practical solution. Strip mobile from that list and you can say
whatever you want ;)
I overheard this type of talk at the casual/mobile conference in LA last
week and I wrote it off as an aberration. Now that I'm hearing a couple of
people here suggesting it as an important consideration I realize that this
is something that should probably be nipped in the bud before folks that
aren't familiar with mobile start believing it and the nonsense spreads.
That said .. If you want me to rephrase my objection into a more
constructive form ... here ya go -
If you're creating a casual title and being able to take it to mobile
(eventually) is something that matters to you, then you should write it in
C++ and avoid 3D. The underlying engine doesn't matter because ALL of the UI
and resource management will be massively rewritten. The benefit of going
with C/C++ is that you can typically bring your gameplay mechanic code over
to BREW/WIPI and J2ME with less effort than if you're coming from something
like Flash, although with Flash 9 things are a bit closer.
Tom
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of E. D. Bass
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:52 AM
To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Casual Game Framework
Any SUGGESTIONS as to what he should use, Tom?
Countering is one thing, carping is another...It's about trying to
help. I don't think anyone on this list thinks there's an all in one
solution, but you have to start somewhere to see what suits you, and your
team.
Then you move forward.
Tom Hubina wrote:
If anyone tells you that an engine can cleanly support (or even remotely
cleanly) PC, Consoles, and Mobile devices you should look for the snake oil
that he's also selling. More than likely the only "mobile devices" they
support are PDAs and Smartphones and not the hundreds of millions of mobile
phones out there where you can actually make some money ;)
You can 100% forget about any kind of all-in-one solution for 2D games. The
only thing close would be 3D stuff, and that represents a tiny portion of
the mobile market right now. But even that's something I would have to call
bullshit on given that so many of the devices don't support things like
floating point, and that you would need an engine that supports both J2ME
(JSR-184) and C++ (BREW/OpenGL ES).
And that's just the engine part. Once you factor in the idea that quality
games on mobile are frequently quite a bit different than their PC/Console
counterparts due to user interface, play time expectations, etc you quickly
realize that anyone who says they have an engine that supports all three
from the same code base has never actually made a successful mobile title.
(sorry to be harsh, but I've seen a lot of this nonsense going around lately
and no one seems to be countering it)
Tom
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:28 AM
To: 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [casual_games] Casual Game Framework
Hi,
I agree completely agree with Eric. You really need a full package if you
intend to develop for PC, Consoles, Mobile devices, etc. I recommend that
you give a look at Mobex3D (www.mobex3D.com <http://www.mobex3d.com/> ),
it's a great engine for PC, Mac and mobile devices. It's one of the best
engine available for mobile devices today.
Hope this advice helped.
Best regards,
David Opresnik
_____
Od: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
Namesto E. D. Bass
Poslano: 29. maj 2007 16:00
Za: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
Zadeva: Re: [casual_games] Casual Game Framework
Just wanted to add my 1.0025 cents.
My crew recently ran up against this issue, and choosing a solid dev
package was a good deal more difficult than i had imagined.
I normally don't offer unsolicited advice, so do forgive...
Firstly, think of your long term goal and long term development scheme
if you intend on developing for PC, Console, Mobile devices, or Web-based,
Choose a package that can either do all of those things.
Do get stuck with a package that will cause you headaches when you decided
to
jump platforms. Our solution was TGE for everything but web, and for that we
chose Flash Professional.
TGE for price, support, community, and the fact that the guys at Garage
Games actually
answer their phones AND give great advice and support. And Flash, because
you just
cannot beat it for fast, fluid, cross compatible game dev.
So, thats my story and I'm sticking to it, good luck Bro.. its all worth
it.. trust me!
Peace and Prosperity,
Eric Bass
Concrete Alchemy Mediaworks
James Terry wrote:
1-Is there any impact on the selected technology on a Publisher's point of
view? Do they prefer any technology over other?
A lot of publishers favor their in-house technology if available, Playground
SDK, PopCap Framework, Torque Game Builder, etc.
2-What do you think about XNA for a casual games?
Like others have said, XNA hasn't matured yet, and it does not support Mac
at all (which is a large outlet for a casual game)
3-Any experience on using a publishers framework (PopCap Games Framework)
and then publishing with others?
Both the PopCap and Playfirst SDK can be used on projects that end up
getting published through someone else, or even self-published
4-Any other suggestions?
Check out Playfirst SDK, PopCap Framework, Torque Game Builder, Unity (if
you have a Mac) and see which one is most useful for what you want to make.
>From what I've seen, its faster to build a Prototype using Unity or TGB
since they have a heavy scripting component while PopCap and Playfirst will
stick you with a lot of C++, but TGB and Unity both cost a bit, while PopCap
and Playfirst are free
James R. Terry
Yatec, LLC
11606 Southfork, Suite 300
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816
(225) 274-1550 Ext. 136
www.yatecgames.com <http://www.yatecgames.com/>
_____
From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org]
On Behalf Of Kef Sensei
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:35 AM
To: casual_games at igda.org
Subject: [casual_games] Casual Game Framework
We are an outsourcing company and we are developing our first game of our
own. We are creating a playable demo for submission to publishers and we are
considering sevral technologies.
We have started with XNA hoping to go through Microsoft path but we found
many incompatibilities with Graphic Cards so we are considering other
options such as PopCap Games Framework.
Some questions:
1-Is there any impact on the selected technology on a Publisher's point of
view? Do they prefer any technology over other?
2-What do you think about XNA for a casual games?
3-Any experience on using a publishers framework (PopCap Games Framework)
and then publishing with others?
4-Any other suggestions?
Thanks for the feedback...
Regards
Eli
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