[game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 48, Issue 7

Peter Border pborder at msbcollege.edu
Thu Nov 13 20:00:31 EST 2008



I've used GameMaker a lot in introductory courses. It's VERY easy to pick up, and students generally like it. I think it works well as an introduction to programming, and it's cheap too ($0 for the basic version, ~$30 for all the features).

You are correct that the games they make usually look pretty familiar, though not always. At this stage they're usually having a lot of problems with technical issues, and that drives their projects.

Peter Border
Programming and Game Development Co-coordinator
Minnesota School of Business
1401 West 76th Street
Richfield, MN
pborder at msbcollege.edu



-----Original Message-----
From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org on behalf of Malcolm Ryan
Sent: Thu 11/13/2008 6:07 PM
To: IGDA Game Education Listserv
Subject: Re: [game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 48, Issue 7

I am reluctant to use specific game-making tools like Unity or
GameMaker for teaching game design out of concern that they are
specifically designed to make games that are similar to what has come
before, and so stifle students' creativity. But I don't have any
particular evidence to back up this concern. What experiences do
others have with these tools? Do they influence students to recreate
existing game designs? Is this really a problem?

Malcolm

On 14/11/2008, at 3:06 AM, Rob Holt wrote:


> For Unity, the educational is the same as the retail pricing, & I

> second use of the tool, it is amazing. It imports Maya scenes

> directly, can refresh them dynamically, & can also build for Wii &

> iphone. The UI is written using lots of OSX technologies, & for a

> while I think it is safe to say there will never be a PC or Linux

> version.

>

> We made this in 2 days. The programmers had never used Javascript.

>

> http://tojam.ca/games_2008/office_smash.asp (Graphics Card

> Intensive)

>

> JavaScript (& Actionscript which are both EMACS based) is a very good

> base language to teach programming to artists. The Unity

> implimentation allows quick results for a good feedback curve (really

> NOT trying to start a what's the best language thread, I suggest

> reading the last 5 years of Slashdot.org for detailed discussions on

> the best language to begin teaching).

>

> On the Editor side, I wish GtkRadiant, Hammer or UnrealEd were as

> quick or friendly.

>

> Robertson Holt

> IADT _ Toronto

>

> ------------------------------------------------

>

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:31 PM, <game_edu-request at igda.org> wrote:

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>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> IGDA Education SIG

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Today's Topics:

>>

>> 1. Re: suggestions for readings? (David Thomas)

>> 2. Re: suggestions for readings? (Kim Gregson)

>> 3. Gamemaker for intro programming; who owns student work

>> (Lewis Pulsipher)

>> 4. Re: Gamemaker for intro programming; who owns student work

>> (Steve Swink)

>> 5. Re: Gamemaker for intro programming; who owns student work

>> (carl)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:48:13 -0700

>> From: "David Thomas" <david at buzzcut.com>

>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] suggestions for readings?

>> To: ai864 at yahoo.com, "IGDA Game Education Listserv"

>> <game_edu at igda.org>

>> Message-ID:

>> <737c06080811110948m21e9d98dt240ce9c7913a5ff2 at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Ian Schreiber <ai864 at yahoo.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> As for the division between "play" and "fun," I'm not familiar

>>> with any

>>> readings that make explicit distinctions between the two, but I'll

>>> go out on

>>> a limb and say that play is an activity, and fun is the result of

>>> (or

>>> emotional reaction to) an activity, so the two terms describe

>>> different

>>> things and can't be directly compared. But that's just my reaction.

>>>

>>> - Ian

>>>

>>

>> Can you play and not have fun? Sure.Can you have enjoyable play and

>> not have

>> fun? Maybe.

>> Can you have fun and not play? Of course.

>>

>> So why do play and fun stick together as much as play and games (or

>> fun and

>> games for that matter)?

>>

>> I think something else that complicates the "fun" concept is that

>> from what

>> I've been able to dig up so far, the term fun is pretty new. It's

>> not an old

>> word by any measure, and the way it is used in, at least North

>> American

>> contexts, is something different than "fun as amusement" of the

>> past 200

>> years.

>>

>> It's a bit out of my area, but I am led to believe that the meaning

>> of the

>> word as we use it in English might be more an American concept, and

>> one that

>> has filtered out into other languages. I would certainly like to

>> hear from

>> my global friends on that assumption.

>>

>> Sorry to tack this problem onto this particular thread. But I

>> stumped at the

>> moment on the fun concept and wonder either a) what I am missing or

>> b) if

>> there is actually a real problem here!

>>

>> -- David

>>

>>>

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>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:46:17 -0500

>> From: "Kim Gregson" <kimatiu at gmail.com>

>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] suggestions for readings?

>> To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>

>> Message-ID:

>> <1441945f0811111046h7b39d18au2ca0e9547534bb99 at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> I see fun as an effect. In the case of my class eventually we want to

>> consider fun an effect of playing games. Entertainment, enjoyment,

>> and

>> engagement are effects, too that we might see from media use, and

>> we have to

>> consider how all the effects are related. There's a developing

>> field of

>> study looking at entertainment as a media use effect that I think

>> will add

>> a lot to the discussion too. Play is something people do. Games are

>> one kind

>> of thing (concept) people use to play

>>

>> When we study other media effects, we consider a variety of factors

>> that

>> could affect the "fun" effect, including

>> - characteristics of the "media user" (in this case, game player) -

>> past

>> experiences, psychological factors, reasons for using the media,

>> how they

>> felt when they started using the media, genre they typically

>> prefer, how

>> they evaluated the media before we started (had they heard lots of

>> bad

>> reviews for instance), how much time they have to spend on media use

>> - characteristics of the "media" (in this case the games) - quality

>> of the

>> media, difficulty of use, what does the user do with it (watch vs

>> interact),

>> content (really gory/bloody, sexual references, violence,

>> characters that

>> look like the user..)

>> - characteristics of the environment (in this case where the games

>> are

>> played) - is the computer fast enough, does screen size matter, does

>> fidelity of the audio playback matter, does the temperature of the

>> room

>> matter, the comfortableness of the couch/chair matter.

>>

>> We look at the effect too because there's usually a range of

>> responses in

>> that effect (in our case from not fun at all to so much fun I'm

>> going to

>> explode<G>) - how we measure comes from how we define it, how we

>> differentiate it from other effects. We have to see if there are

>> physical

>> results of having fun as well as emotional results since physical

>> effects

>> would be easier to measure.

>>

>> In my mind this is not something to be solved in a semester - lots

>> of good

>> questions and issues being raised right here and they've made for

>> interesting reading. But lots of questions can be raised, relevant

>> literature can be identified and summarized, some variables can be

>> examined,

>> perhaps a list of variables to consider in the future can be created.

>>

>> I'd love to get with people from a lot of different fields to see

>> how they

>> consider "fun" Probably they could suggest still other variables and

>> measurement techniques. As David mentions - the idea of having fun

>> is pretty

>> new (maybe it's related to a certain amount of economic excess that

>> allows

>> for free time) but we know that games have been around longer than

>> recorded

>> history. Maybe the history and econ folks can shed some light; i

>> need to

>> track down some other email lists and get them in on the

>> conversation<G>

>>

>> A lot of my research has been as a media effects person. So that's

>> my hammer

>> and fun is my particular nail today.

>> How else can we consider fun besides an effect or outcome? We need

>> some

>> different lenses to look at it I think.

>>

>> Kim

>>

>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:48 PM, David Thomas <david at buzzcut.com>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Ian Schreiber <ai864 at yahoo.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> As for the division between "play" and "fun," I'm not familiar

>>>> with any

>>>> readings that make explicit distinctions between the two, but

>>>> I'll go out on

>>>> a limb and say that play is an activity, and fun is the result of

>>>> (or

>>>> emotional reaction to) an activity, so the two terms describe

>>>> different

>>>> things and can't be directly compared. But that's just my reaction.

>>>>

>>>> - Ian

>>>>

>>>

>>> Can you play and not have fun? Sure.Can you have enjoyable play

>>> and not

>>> have fun? Maybe.

>>> Can you have fun and not play? Of course.

>>>

>>> So why do play and fun stick together as much as play and games

>>> (or fun and

>>> games for that matter)?

>>>

>>> I think something else that complicates the "fun" concept is that

>>> from what

>>> I've been able to dig up so far, the term fun is pretty new. It's

>>> not an old

>>> word by any measure, and the way it is used in, at least North

>>> American

>>> contexts, is something different than "fun as amusement" of the

>>> past 200

>>> years.

>>>

>>> It's a bit out of my area, but I am led to believe that the

>>> meaning of the

>>> word as we use it in English might be more an American concept,

>>> and one that

>>> has filtered out into other languages. I would certainly like to

>>> hear from

>>> my global friends on that assumption.

>>>

>>> Sorry to tack this problem onto this particular thread. But I

>>> stumped at

>>> the moment on the fun concept and wonder either a) what I am

>>> missing or b)

>>> if there is actually a real problem here!

>>>

>>> -- David

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> game_edu mailing list

>>> game_edu at igda.org

>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>>

>>>

>> -------------- next part --------------

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 3

>> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:07:11 -0500

>> From: "Lewis Pulsipher" <lewpuls at gmail.com>

>> Subject: [game_edu] Gamemaker for intro programming; who owns student

>> work

>> To: game_edu at igda.org

>> Message-ID:

>> <790382db0811121607j77564d7ah7f3425a1f6c3f0e8 at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> Do you know of anyone who has used Gamemaker as a principal tool for

>> teaching Introduction to Programming classes (not just for game

>> students,

>> but for programming students in general)? It would appear to be an

>> ideal

>> way to put some fun into elementary programming.

>>

>>

>> Going back to the question of who owns student work, the response

>> of the

>> lawyer who writes the legal advice column for IGDA will be of

>> interest:

>> http://www.igda.org/columns/lastwords/lastwords_Nov08.php

>> -------------- next part --------------

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 4

>> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:28:30 -0700

>> From: "Steve Swink" <sswink at flashbangstudios.com>

>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Gamemaker for intro programming; who

>> owns

>> student work

>> To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>

>> Message-ID:

>> <ff1a1b790811121928s57f5fb8aw4a287c6a4613def6 at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> I haven't used Gamemaker, but if I may recommend checking out

>> Unity, I think

>> it's at least as good an option for putting fun into elementary

>> programming.

>> Plus, it's a proper 3d engine, has PhysX integration, and has one-

>> click

>> deployment to web, mac, and PC:

>>

>> www.unity3d.com

>>

>> It's what we at Flashbang Studios use for all our games (www.blurst.com

>> ) and

>> I'm currently teaching it to a class of 27 art students. It's going

>> surprisingly well; the language is similar to Actionscript, but

>> easier to

>> learn and use.

>>

>> Also, the Unity guys are young, enthusiastic, and *extremely* open to

>> unorthodox licensing solutions, including extended trials and so

>> on. They

>> really "get it" in terms of building a user base. I can't say

>> enough good

>> things about them and the Unity environment.

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Steve

>>

>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Lewis Pulsipher

>> <lewpuls at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> Do you know of anyone who has used Gamemaker as a principal tool for

>>> teaching Introduction to Programming classes (not just for game

>>> students,

>>> but for programming students in general)? It would appear to be

>>> an ideal

>>> way to put some fun into elementary programming.

>>>

>>>

>>> Going back to the question of who owns student work, the response

>>> of the

>>> lawyer who writes the legal advice column for IGDA will be of

>>> interest:

>>> http://www.igda.org/columns/lastwords/lastwords_Nov08.php

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> game_edu mailing list

>>> game_edu at igda.org

>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> ______________________________________

>>

>> Steve Swink

>>

>> Game Designer, Flashbang Studios

>> Coordinator, Independent Games Festival

>> 209 E. Baseline Suite 201 Tempe, AZ 85283

>>

>> (480) 393-0885, Phone | (480) 626-5992, Fax

>> (480) 353-6763, Mobile

>>

>> www.flashbangstudios.com

>> www.steveswink.com

>> -------------- next part --------------

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 5

>> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:31:45 -0400

>> From: "carl" <carl at measurand.com>

>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Gamemaker for intro programming; who

>> owns

>> student work

>> To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>

>> Message-ID: <003e01c94540$5ac4cc00$0a02a8c0 at sage>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>

>> - I like unity too. I have tried to contact them about educational

>> pricing but no reply so far. Do you know if they have educational

>> pricing?

>>

>> - any idea when their windows version will come out?

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: Steve Swink

>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv

>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:28 PM

>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] Gamemaker for intro programming;who owns

>> student work

>>

>>

>> I haven't used Gamemaker, but if I may recommend checking out

>> Unity, I think it's at least as good an option for putting fun into

>> elementary programming. Plus, it's a proper 3d engine, has PhysX

>> integration, and has one-click deployment to web, mac, and PC:

>>

>> www.unity3d.com

>>

>> It's what we at Flashbang Studios use for all our games (www.blurst.com

>> ) and I'm currently teaching it to a class of 27 art students. It's

>> going surprisingly well; the language is similar to Actionscript,

>> but easier to learn and use.

>>

>> Also, the Unity guys are young, enthusiastic, and extremely open to

>> unorthodox licensing solutions, including extended trials and so

>> on. They really "get it" in terms of building a user base. I can't

>> say enough good things about them and the Unity environment.

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Steve

>>

>>

>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Lewis Pulsipher

>> <lewpuls at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> Do you know of anyone who has used Gamemaker as a principal tool

>> for teaching Introduction to Programming classes (not just for game

>> students, but for programming students in general)? It would

>> appear to be an ideal way to put some fun into elementary

>> programming.

>>

>>

>> Going back to the question of who owns student work, the response

>> of the lawyer who writes the legal advice column for IGDA will be

>> of interest: http://www.igda.org/columns/lastwords/lastwords_Nov08.php

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_edu mailing list

>> game_edu at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> ______________________________________

>>

>> Steve Swink

>>

>> Game Designer, Flashbang Studios

>> Coordinator, Independent Games Festival

>> 209 E. Baseline Suite 201 Tempe, AZ 85283

>>

>> (480) 393-0885, Phone | (480) 626-5992, Fax

>> (480) 353-6763, Mobile

>>

>> www.flashbangstudios.com

>> www.steveswink.com

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_edu mailing list

>> game_edu at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

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>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_edu mailing list

>> game_edu at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>

>>

>> End of game_edu Digest, Vol 48, Issue 7

>> ***************************************

>>

> _______________________________________________

> game_edu mailing list

> game_edu at igda.org

> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu


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