[games_access] FORUM (was Re: GDC 2008: VERY Bad News)

Sat Dec 1 14:01:20 EST 2007

I use to own a website hosting company.

I have used my wholesale account and paid for the said domain.  I will 
also be more than happy to set up a full free standing forum and or 
blog... I would recommend something like Drupal...

I will even give you the space on my server (it is in Dallas), all you 
have to do is ask....

Now I did not mean to step on anyones toes here, but after reading this 
list for some time It is clear that there are idea folks and 
implementation folks... I will step up and be the second group.

Ping me if you want to help, ping me if you want to complain. Michelle, 
I will reach out to you and you can use me as your lacky to get this up 
and running.

Take care
Mark Barlet
Ioo - AbleGamers.com

AudioGames.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just so you know: the GA forum was left unattended for some time but 
> the spam was removed as far as I could see. The forum is still pretty 
> popular, it's just that not that many SIG people attend it (because it 
> is not an "offical SIG" forum?).
>
> As I also said in the past: the Accessibility foundation is still 
> awaiting to be approached by the GA-SIG for collaborating on GA.com. I 
> already explained to a couple of you that with me and Sander having 
> left the foundation, most expertise left too. The foundation is 
> currently focusing on other projects and does not have the resources 
> to maintain this website at the moment. I already discussed a possible 
> collaboration with GA-SIG with my boss - EVEN to the extend of GA-SIG 
> ADOPTING GA.com and chaing it to a GA-SIG format - as if it was its 
> own - with Accessibility only sponsoring the website in the form of 
> hosting it. As far as I know, the foundation is still up for that. 
> However, IGDA politics intervened which resulted in that IGDA GA-SIG 
> still does not have a website to call their own. If GA-SIG does not 
> want to collaborate with GA.com then I would still suggest to buy 
> www.gasig.org and simply make a website under that for as long as IGDA 
> politics keep intervening.
>
> Greets,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008: VERY Bad News
>
>
>> Barrie,
>>
>> No. Not harsh. Just on point. (Programmers are not hired for their 
>> social skills.)
>>
>> 1. Yes.
>>
>> But this SIG is unique in that it is the one active place that covers 
>> multiple challenges, has an international audience, and clearly has 
>> the ears of some key industry players. If this SIG has its own 
>> concise, specific, answer to "what do you want us developers to do?" 
>> please point me to it.
>>
>> 2. Again, this SIG has a unique position in that it can credibly 
>> publish such a list, that address multiple challenges, 
>> internationally, and has the ear of the major developers. Is there 
>> any such recognized list of companies and games? Why not from this SIG?
>>
>> 3. Please.
>>
>> I'm on the Game Accessibility Project forum every day. It's getting 
>> spammed without intervention. It's much lower volume than such a fine 
>> effort warrants.  Richard says he's out of there. It's adrift.
>>
>> And Mark's forum is outstanding, but does not right now have the 
>> attention of the industry leaders, or actual developers, that this 
>> SIG does. (No criticism, he's doing a wonderful job.) I'm on Audyssey 
>> every day and it has a very active set of game developers that help 
>> each other all the time. But it's limited to the blind and VI folks.
>>
>> I'd not heard of the RetroRemakes forum (thanks for the tip) but 
>> according to its main page, it's most recent post was in August.
>>
>> Show me a forum where mainstream game developers meet to help each 
>> other make accessibility happen.
>>
>> The three proposals stand.
>>
>> John
>>
>> At 11:47 AM 12/1/2007, you wrote:
>>> A little harsh, John perhaps?
>>>
>>> 1. Has been covered to various degrees here:
>>>
>>> http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/ARTICLES/physical-barriers.htm
>>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/hci/ua-games/game-over/
>>> http://www.helpyouplay.com/welcome.html
>>>
>>> (and other places too).
>>>
>>> 2. Is is a good point. But there's so few mainstream developers 
>>> making deliberate accessibity efforts that take into account 
>>> specific disabilities. Here's a list of some:
>>>
>>> http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/pioneers.htm
>>> http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> 3. Forums here:
>>>
>>> http://www.game-accessibility.com/forum/
>>> http://www.retroremakes.com/forum2/forumdisplay.php?f=84
>>> http://ablegamers.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,606/
>>>
>>> We need the support of more people though!
>>>
>>> Barrie
>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>> www.igda.org/accessibility
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bannick" <jbannick at 7128.com>
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] GDC 2008: VERY Bad News
>>>
>>>
>>>> Reid is right.
>>>>
>>>> There are developers right now who want their work to be accessible.
>>>>
>>>> This SIG could right now facilitate that by:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Providing, distributing, and publicizing a concise, specific set 
>>>> of functional criteria that define what means accessible.
>>>> 2. Compiling, publishing, and publicizing an annual list of which 
>>>> companies and games meet those criteria.
>>>> 3. Maintaining a forum (The currently rather drifting Game 
>>>> Accessibility Project comes to mind) where developers can go for 
>>>> immediate help.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a developer of games that are accessible.
>>>> Have shipped 22 different revenue-generating products in a wide 
>>>> variety of vertical markets in the last 30 years.
>>>> Am neither stupid nor lazy.
>>>> And don't see any of the 3 above items.
>>>>
>>>> None of the 3 items should take long to build as a first cut.
>>>>
>>>> And if not from this SIG, then from where?
>>>>
>>>> John Bannick
>>>> CTO
>>>> 7-128 Software
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 02:26 AM 12/1/2007, you wrote:
>>>>> Please, can we stop with the negative talk about GDC and the game
>>>>> industry? I work in the game industry for LucasArts. Just last week I
>>>>> talked to a highly respected programmer and he's 100% behind us and
>>>>> wants to talk about what we can do to improve accessibility in our
>>>>> games after our current milestone is finished. There are dozens of
>>>>> people at LucasArts that support game accessibility. Nintendo totally
>>>>> gets it, EA Games totally gets it with their Family Play modes in
>>>>> their sports games. Peter Molyneux gets it, Will Wright... the list
>>>>> goes on and on.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's offensive to me when people of this SIG accuse developers of not
>>>>> caring because WE DO CARE. The last thing you want to do is insult 
>>>>> the
>>>>> people you have to work with. It's the quickest way to turn them away
>>>>> from our cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, instead of complaining, lets do something about it! First,
>>>>> everyone here needs to understand what it's like for developers and
>>>>> why it's so hard for them to adopt accessibility features.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Limited financial resources - Games are very expensive to make and
>>>>> any new features adds to the cost. Before you can add accessibility
>>>>> features you must have a game and that's where most of the money is
>>>>> spent first.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Limited time - Game development is incredibly complex and hard to
>>>>> tame. No matter how much extra time gets budgeted into the production
>>>>> schedule, it always runs out well before all tasks are complete. When
>>>>> this happens, features get cut in order to save the core of the game
>>>>> and again, without a game, there can't be any accessibility features.
>>>>> Because this usually happens so late, there isn't enough time to work
>>>>> on accessibility features before the game has to ship.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Limited information - Even if a developer was pro-active and
>>>>> scheduled the development of accessibility features into the games'
>>>>> development schedule, there's still a major lack of knowledge and
>>>>> tools that enable them to do their job. The SIG has been thinking
>>>>> about accessibility features for years and we have all the solutions,
>>>>> but developers don't yet. We need to make ourselves known and readily
>>>>> available to help them.
>>>>>
>>>>> What can we do to solve these issues? We need to develop our
>>>>> relationships with developers and offer our assistance. Our attempts
>>>>> to work with GarageGames is a good start. When a new game is 
>>>>> announced
>>>>> we should contact them and offer our expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have GOT to get a website up so that we can communicate our
>>>>> abilities and expertise to our target audiences (game developers).
>>>>>
>>>>> But there are technical issues and many of us are volunteers and so
>>>>> things move very slowly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Several of us are writing guidelines for implementing certain 
>>>>> features
>>>>> but again, this is a slow process. Others are doing research. 
>>>>> Going to
>>>>> conferences is awesome. Writing articles to Gamasutra is great as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eitan is right, we have to "sell" our expertise. It's not that
>>>>> developers don't care, they don't know that they SHOULD care.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Reid
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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