[games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
AudioGames.net
richard at audiogames.net
Mon Dec 17 04:52:16 EST 2007
Hi,
Interesting suggestion, Thomas. I think what needs to be taken into account
is that timing and control are very important factors for musical expressing
through a rythm intrument. I think it is very, very hard to do a good beat
with your eyebrows. I'm pretty good at timing, but I simply can't
raise/lower my eyebrows fast enough. I just tried "We Will Rock You" and
next to a headache*, I though it was very tiring and was glad the song was
over ;) I can't imagine me doing this a whole session with multiple songs. I
think the same might go for using cameras and head-bob-recognition. It all
depends on how you set it up of course, and how much 'bob' will cause a
trigger. But I foresee that if it's a 'big bob'**, players will easily get
tired*** which is not something I think you want to cause with a game.
Greets,
Richard
* which could be related to last night's party but still ;)
** oh boy
*** and nausious* ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at pininteractive.com>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
> how about using a Cyberlink to control the pedal input; simply mapping it
> to raising eyebrows for instance
>
> /Thomas
>
> 16 dec 2007 kl. 09.31 skrev <hinn at uiuc.edu> <hinn at uiuc.edu>:
>
>> Hey --
>>
>> The main issue is that they cannot use the foot pedal but they can use
>> the drum pad (the other four inputs) using the drum sticks -- they are
>> paraplegic and not quadriplegic...although Harmonix would like to know
>> solution ideas for quadriplegic gamers as well!
>>
>> I have asked to see if we could get into the source code if we sign away
>> our lives -- worst case he just says "no way." And that's cool. I can
>> understand keeping the code close to the vest. Doesn't hurt to propose
>> it though.
>>
>> At the party I was at last night, it took 2-3 people without mobility
>> disabilities to play the drum on "easy" mode. So add in any mobility
>> disability and it's even tougher!
>>
>> Another thing to think about is solo practice -- you can go through the
>> game just playing the drum with AI players. So there is a loss of
>> independence for paraplegic gamers who would have to get a friend to
>> "drum" with them. So they get used to each other's cues and
>> styles...what happens at a party when the friend might not be there and
>> a "substitute" second person is needed. It's not absolutely critical but
>> it can get annoying to get used to someone else who is essentially a
>> part of your "skills" package -- after all, a lot of (most?) people
>> practice on their own so that they can keep up with and/or beat the crap
>> out of their fellow game players. Yeah...rockband IS about
>> collaboration...but...when the scores came up, there was always clearly
>> "the winner." :)
>>
>> Did I mention that I think this discussion is really cool? ;)
>>
>> Michelle
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:10:01 -0800
>>> From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> Interesting problem, maybe a viable strategy would be to find the
>>> gross or lowest denominator of the amount of interaction that a
>>> paraplegic could provide; e.g. if this is a one switch you obviously
>>> have a hard time providing five different inputs. Some amount of
>>> interaction has to go or be automated.
>>>
>>> I assume we will not be able to modify the existing source code and
>>> hence a solution must be found in the hardware. If you want to
>>> automate particular drum beats there is no way to get this information
>>> through a controller unless you would be using a videocamera that
>>> would monitor the screen to see which buttons need to be pressed.
>>>
>>> I propose a simple solution:
>>>
>>> just splitting up the drums (physically) into a part (1-5) drums that
>>> can be played by a paraplegic and the other part (1-5) shall be played
>>> by another human. You need 4 people anyway so finding a 5th should not
>>> be a problem. If the paraplegic is unable to drum but can only use sip
>>> and puff i would suggest splitting up the controller for the drums in
>>> a sipp and puff part and the remaining drum parts.
>>>
>>> Cheers Eelke
>>>
>>> On 15/12/2007, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Mike --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The automation of inputs sounds like an excellent idea. I think you'd
>>>> want it generic and per-input though and be clear that it's not *just*
>>>> the foot pedal that could be problematic. e.g. Def Leopard's Rick
>>>> Allen could easily handle the bass pedal (and a few more), but one of
>>>> the pads might be a pain to hit simultaneously with another one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep, I was thinking about Rick Allen -- I'll have to do some surfing
>>>> to give
>>>> them some links on how drummers with mobility disabilities and
>>>> amputees
>>>> trick out their drum kits for their own personal situation. That might
>>>> give
>>>> Rock Band another source for information (actually...I'm wondering if
>>>> we
>>>> could get Rick Allen in on the accessible drum kit? I know that the
>>>> Harmonix
>>>> guys know some of the band contacts. I'm serious! How cool would that
>>>> be to
>>>> be able to buy a special edition Rick Allen controller that could be
>>>> reconfigured to work with switches and so forth? For info on his
>>>> custom kit:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Allen_%28drummer%29
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've only played the original GH briefly - do these games identify the
>>>> different players at the start of the game? Tying such settings to
>>>> individual users/names would be nice, so that if you're taking turns
>>>> it'd automatically reconfigure itself for each person once those
>>>> configurations are set and keep the accounts/configurations around as
>>>> options for future gaming sessions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, you pick your own player and name them (and then you can outfit
>>>> them
>>>> with cooler clothes and instruments when you earn cash from gigs) and
>>>> it
>>>> saves your progress and such. So I would think saving accessibility
>>>> configurations would be pretty easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as hardware - if they provided a way to use a generic
>>>> controller instead of the custom ones (e.g. use a standard gamepad
>>>> instead of the guitar for instance, where the whammy bar became the
>>>> joystick), and in software allowed for remapping of the generic
>>>> controller's inputs and to the expected inputs of the custom
>>>> controller, then that should allow people to use things like the
>>>> QuadControl.com's controller to play, wouldn't it? Anything
>>>> excessively hard to do with such a controller could be switched to
>>>> "automatic mode" in the software? Making these configurations also
>>>> per-user as above would be nice as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmm...yeah there is no way to play without a USB
>>>> controller...but...I'm
>>>> wondering if one of Barrie's USB controllers might be "tricked" to
>>>> work with
>>>> Rock Band -- I mean they already need a hub to fit four instruments so
>>>> one
>>>> of those could be an accessible controller...and then someone with
>>>> different
>>>> mobility issues might be able to play with a hacked controller
>>>> connected to
>>>> five switches (four for the drum pad and one for the pedal. I'll also
>>>> introduce them to the Quad Controller for the 360 -- they may have a
>>>> "cheat"
>>>> or something that would allow someone to override an instrument
>>>> (stranger
>>>> things have been put in games).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now this discussion is kind of cool and super fun -- maybe we should
>>>> start
>>>> brainstorming on a game every other week where we know we have a
>>>> friendly
>>>> person in a high powered position who could make things happen. We
>>>> could
>>>> advert it on forums and our blogs for more suggestions. Mark and
>>>> Barrie
>>>> could help us on the blog end of things and I can contact some other
>>>> groups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We could then present them with mini-usability reports and if they are
>>>> interested in more info/help then they can help support the GA-SIG
>>>> foundation (our soon-to-be-made-real non-profit) where we could
>>>> earmark for
>>>> travel scholarships for SIG members to conferences like the GDC where
>>>> they
>>>> are speakers, etc. It's a bird...It's a plane...no...It's "SIG PROJECT
>>>> PRACTICAL!!!!!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to set up a meeting with Alex and the Harmonix gang at GDC
>>>> so we
>>>> can show them the controllers, Eelke's haptic solution for the blind,
>>>> how
>>>> they are used, and discuss things further. Who doesn't want to ROCK
>>>> after
>>>> all? Beethoven was deaf -- and yet it was a rockstar back in his day.
>>>> ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me see if I can get a couple kits if we sign our lives away and
>>>> promise
>>>> not to resell them on ebay.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trust me on this one -- we have already benefited from the private
>>>> generosity of Harmonix employees who dig our work. I can't say much
>>>> more but
>>>> trust me -- I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michelle
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>>> Department of CS&E/171
>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> games_access mailing list
>>> games_access at igda.org
>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> .......................................
>> these are mediocre times and people are
>> losing hope. it's hard for many people
>> to believe that there are extraordinary
>> things inside themselves, as well as
>> others. i hope you can keep an open
>> mind.
>> -- "unbreakable"
>> .......................................
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
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