[games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
AudioGames.net
richard at audiogames.net
Mon Dec 17 06:48:04 EST 2007
I forgot to mention exactly why I though your suggestion was interesting.
Because I wish Cyberlink could be the solution here and gamers could trigger
the kickdrum by merely thinking about it :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "AudioGames.net" <richard at audiogames.net>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
> Hi,
>
> Interesting suggestion, Thomas. I think what needs to be taken into
> account is that timing and control are very important factors for musical
> expressing through a rythm intrument. I think it is very, very hard to do
> a good beat with your eyebrows. I'm pretty good at timing, but I simply
> can't raise/lower my eyebrows fast enough. I just tried "We Will Rock You"
> and next to a headache*, I though it was very tiring and was glad the song
> was over ;) I can't imagine me doing this a whole session with multiple
> songs. I think the same might go for using cameras and
> head-bob-recognition. It all depends on how you set it up of course, and
> how much 'bob' will cause a trigger. But I foresee that if it's a 'big
> bob'**, players will easily get tired*** which is not something I think
> you want to cause with a game.
>
> Greets,
>
> Richard
>
>
> * which could be related to last night's party but still ;)
> ** oh boy
> *** and nausious* ;)
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at pininteractive.com>
> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
>
>
>> how about using a Cyberlink to control the pedal input; simply mapping
>> it to raising eyebrows for instance
>>
>> /Thomas
>>
>> 16 dec 2007 kl. 09.31 skrev <hinn at uiuc.edu> <hinn at uiuc.edu>:
>>
>>> Hey --
>>>
>>> The main issue is that they cannot use the foot pedal but they can use
>>> the drum pad (the other four inputs) using the drum sticks -- they are
>>> paraplegic and not quadriplegic...although Harmonix would like to know
>>> solution ideas for quadriplegic gamers as well!
>>>
>>> I have asked to see if we could get into the source code if we sign
>>> away our lives -- worst case he just says "no way." And that's cool. I
>>> can understand keeping the code close to the vest. Doesn't hurt to
>>> propose it though.
>>>
>>> At the party I was at last night, it took 2-3 people without mobility
>>> disabilities to play the drum on "easy" mode. So add in any mobility
>>> disability and it's even tougher!
>>>
>>> Another thing to think about is solo practice -- you can go through the
>>> game just playing the drum with AI players. So there is a loss of
>>> independence for paraplegic gamers who would have to get a friend to
>>> "drum" with them. So they get used to each other's cues and
>>> styles...what happens at a party when the friend might not be there and
>>> a "substitute" second person is needed. It's not absolutely critical
>>> but it can get annoying to get used to someone else who is essentially
>>> a part of your "skills" package -- after all, a lot of (most?) people
>>> practice on their own so that they can keep up with and/or beat the
>>> crap out of their fellow game players. Yeah...rockband IS about
>>> collaboration...but...when the scores came up, there was always clearly
>>> "the winner." :)
>>>
>>> Did I mention that I think this discussion is really cool? ;)
>>>
>>> Michelle
>>>
>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:10:01 -0800
>>>> From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Harmonix needs our help!
>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> Interesting problem, maybe a viable strategy would be to find the
>>>> gross or lowest denominator of the amount of interaction that a
>>>> paraplegic could provide; e.g. if this is a one switch you obviously
>>>> have a hard time providing five different inputs. Some amount of
>>>> interaction has to go or be automated.
>>>>
>>>> I assume we will not be able to modify the existing source code and
>>>> hence a solution must be found in the hardware. If you want to
>>>> automate particular drum beats there is no way to get this information
>>>> through a controller unless you would be using a videocamera that
>>>> would monitor the screen to see which buttons need to be pressed.
>>>>
>>>> I propose a simple solution:
>>>>
>>>> just splitting up the drums (physically) into a part (1-5) drums that
>>>> can be played by a paraplegic and the other part (1-5) shall be played
>>>> by another human. You need 4 people anyway so finding a 5th should not
>>>> be a problem. If the paraplegic is unable to drum but can only use sip
>>>> and puff i would suggest splitting up the controller for the drums in
>>>> a sipp and puff part and the remaining drum parts.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Eelke
>>>>
>>>> On 15/12/2007, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Mike --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The automation of inputs sounds like an excellent idea. I think
>>>>> you'd
>>>>> want it generic and per-input though and be clear that it's not
>>>>> *just*
>>>>> the foot pedal that could be problematic. e.g. Def Leopard's Rick
>>>>> Allen could easily handle the bass pedal (and a few more), but one of
>>>>> the pads might be a pain to hit simultaneously with another one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, I was thinking about Rick Allen -- I'll have to do some surfing
>>>>> to give
>>>>> them some links on how drummers with mobility disabilities and
>>>>> amputees
>>>>> trick out their drum kits for their own personal situation. That
>>>>> might give
>>>>> Rock Band another source for information (actually...I'm wondering if
>>>>> we
>>>>> could get Rick Allen in on the accessible drum kit? I know that the
>>>>> Harmonix
>>>>> guys know some of the band contacts. I'm serious! How cool would that
>>>>> be to
>>>>> be able to buy a special edition Rick Allen controller that could be
>>>>> reconfigured to work with switches and so forth? For info on his
>>>>> custom kit:
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Allen_%28drummer%29
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've only played the original GH briefly - do these games identify
>>>>> the
>>>>> different players at the start of the game? Tying such settings to
>>>>> individual users/names would be nice, so that if you're taking turns
>>>>> it'd automatically reconfigure itself for each person once those
>>>>> configurations are set and keep the accounts/configurations around as
>>>>> options for future gaming sessions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you pick your own player and name them (and then you can outfit
>>>>> them
>>>>> with cooler clothes and instruments when you earn cash from gigs) and
>>>>> it
>>>>> saves your progress and such. So I would think saving accessibility
>>>>> configurations would be pretty easy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as hardware - if they provided a way to use a generic
>>>>> controller instead of the custom ones (e.g. use a standard gamepad
>>>>> instead of the guitar for instance, where the whammy bar became the
>>>>> joystick), and in software allowed for remapping of the generic
>>>>> controller's inputs and to the expected inputs of the custom
>>>>> controller, then that should allow people to use things like the
>>>>> QuadControl.com's controller to play, wouldn't it? Anything
>>>>> excessively hard to do with such a controller could be switched to
>>>>> "automatic mode" in the software? Making these configurations also
>>>>> per-user as above would be nice as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm...yeah there is no way to play without a USB
>>>>> controller...but...I'm
>>>>> wondering if one of Barrie's USB controllers might be "tricked" to
>>>>> work with
>>>>> Rock Band -- I mean they already need a hub to fit four instruments
>>>>> so one
>>>>> of those could be an accessible controller...and then someone with
>>>>> different
>>>>> mobility issues might be able to play with a hacked controller
>>>>> connected to
>>>>> five switches (four for the drum pad and one for the pedal. I'll also
>>>>> introduce them to the Quad Controller for the 360 -- they may have a
>>>>> "cheat"
>>>>> or something that would allow someone to override an instrument
>>>>> (stranger
>>>>> things have been put in games).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now this discussion is kind of cool and super fun -- maybe we should
>>>>> start
>>>>> brainstorming on a game every other week where we know we have a
>>>>> friendly
>>>>> person in a high powered position who could make things happen. We
>>>>> could
>>>>> advert it on forums and our blogs for more suggestions. Mark and
>>>>> Barrie
>>>>> could help us on the blog end of things and I can contact some other
>>>>> groups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We could then present them with mini-usability reports and if they
>>>>> are
>>>>> interested in more info/help then they can help support the GA-SIG
>>>>> foundation (our soon-to-be-made-real non-profit) where we could
>>>>> earmark for
>>>>> travel scholarships for SIG members to conferences like the GDC where
>>>>> they
>>>>> are speakers, etc. It's a bird...It's a plane...no...It's "SIG
>>>>> PROJECT
>>>>> PRACTICAL!!!!!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to set up a meeting with Alex and the Harmonix gang at GDC
>>>>> so we
>>>>> can show them the controllers, Eelke's haptic solution for the blind,
>>>>> how
>>>>> they are used, and discuss things further. Who doesn't want to ROCK
>>>>> after
>>>>> all? Beethoven was deaf -- and yet it was a rockstar back in his day.
>>>>> ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me see if I can get a couple kits if we sign our lives away and
>>>>> promise
>>>>> not to resell them on ebay.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trust me on this one -- we have already benefited from the private
>>>>> generosity of Harmonix employees who dig our work. I can't say much
>>>>> more but
>>>>> trust me -- I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of CS&E/171
>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>>>> Game interaction design www.helpyouplay.com
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>> .......................................
>>> these are mediocre times and people are
>>> losing hope. it's hard for many people
>>> to believe that there are extraordinary
>>> things inside themselves, as well as
>>> others. i hope you can keep an open
>>> mind.
>>> -- "unbreakable"
>>> .......................................
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> games_access mailing list
>>> games_access at igda.org
>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
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