[games_access] secondlife...from eelke

d. michelle hinn hinn at uiuc.edu
Fri Jan 12 20:48:53 EST 2007


I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital
games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our
members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and
hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our
battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital
life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility
of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any
platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of
the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games --
we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING
experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many
people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that
to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the
accessibility of Microsoft Excel.

If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can*
also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have
more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be
a gaming environment but in itself is not that.

I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we
go too far down SL lane."

My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or
anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it
ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall
2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money
to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc.
Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a
lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again.
I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some
wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post
as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than
we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games
in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not
Flash itself was accessible.

Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :)


>As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more

>accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the

>game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow

>the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our

>recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning

>options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web

>accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only

>focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut

>to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :)

>

>-Reid

>

>On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit

>>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you

>>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few

>>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D

>>

>> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe.

>>

>> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the

>>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and

>>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged

>>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create

>>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it

>>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded

>>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore,

>>does not work with the accessible viewer.

>>

>> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game

>>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that

>>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or

>>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support

>>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what

>>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the

>>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's

>>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is

>>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we

>>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical

>>entrance to the library or school or home?

> >

>> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to

>>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do

>>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus,

>>decreasing our effectiveness.

>>

>> Michelle

>>

>> ______________

>> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800

>> >From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

>> >To: games_access at igda.org

>> >

>> >Hi,

>> >

>> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside

>> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual

>> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no

>> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this

>> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its

>> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf.

>> >

>> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous

>> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain

>> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy

>> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is

>> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL.

>> >

>> >Cheers Eelke

>> >

>> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org

>><games_access-request at igda.org> wrote:

>> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to

>> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >>

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>> >>

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>> >>

>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Today's Topics:

>> >>

>> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn)

>> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn)

>> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball)

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 1

>> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600

>> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

>> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind

>> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> Message-ID: <p06230991c1cccfa63251@[192.168.1.100]>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created

>> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable

>> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An

>> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming

>> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market.

>> >>

>> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had

>> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it

>> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel.

>> >>

>> >> Michelle

>> >>

>> >> >Hi all,

>> >> >

>> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit

>> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run

>> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They

>> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly

>> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members

>> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy

>> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member

>> >> >of a unique club.

>> >> >

>> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or

>> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make

>> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should

>> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and

> > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as

>> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions

>> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up

>> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires

>> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no

>> >> >matter how terrible that may be.

>> >> >

>> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to

>> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a

>> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that

>> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being

>> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements

>> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students

>> >> >using it.

>> >> >

>> >> >-Reid

>> >> >

>> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also

>> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation

>> >> >> even though you are not with Linden.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free

>> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when

>> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore

>> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part,

>> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we

>> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take

>> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much

>> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify

>> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is

>> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so

>> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our

>> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much

>> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming

>> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not

>> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated

>> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide

>> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also

>> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and

>> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and

>> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the

>> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and

>> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be

>> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle

>> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response

>> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received.

>> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find

>> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense

>> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm

>> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many

>> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great")

>> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed

>> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and

>> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct

>> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this

>> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used

>> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to

> > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is

>second life.

>> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more

>> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that

>> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others

>> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There

>> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of

>> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've

>> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness

>> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to

>> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to

>> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not

>> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has

>> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game."

>> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high

>> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry

>> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why

>> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested

>> >> >> members in the committee you suggest.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I

>> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this

>> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help

>> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us

>> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and

>> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able

>> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Michelle

>> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss

>> >> >>the issues.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability

>> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an

>> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of

>> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the

>> >> >> >lab.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for

>> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble

>> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open

>> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem

>>in detail?

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >Thank You,

>> >> >> >Tom Roome

>> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant

>> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas

>> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >________________________________

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn

>> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM

>> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List

>> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

>> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business"

>> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is

>>following it

>> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is

>> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create

>>games...or

>> >> >> >businesses...or classes...

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off

> > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory.

>> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming

>> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of

>> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves

>> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at

>> >> >> >whatever point in time.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL

>> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves

>> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books

>> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned).

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Michelle

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do

>> >> >>need to keep

>> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a

>>simulation instead of a

>> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine).

>>While this may seem

>> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation

>> >> >>discussion), it can

>> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>Greets,

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>Richard

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----

>> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> >> >>To: <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM

>> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

>> >> >>SecondLife

>> >> >> >>accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as

>>I'm about to guest

>> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova.

>> >> >> >>>

>> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was

>>bound to happen

>> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are

>>being used in

>> >> >> >>> classrooms.

>> >> >> >>>

>> >> >> >>> Michelle

>> >> >> >>>

>> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800

>> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>,

>> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" <r.van.tol at bartimeus.nl>

>> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list

>>but it wasn't

>> >> >> >>>>featured in today's

>> >> >> >>>>mail.

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke

>> >> >> > >>>

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------

>> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM

>> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>>accessible

>> >> >> >>>>to the blind

>> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the

>>subject matter

>> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit):

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the

>> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next?

>>Should they sue the

>> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that

>>verbally describe

>> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows

>>only work for

>> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right"

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder

>>linden labs)

>> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C

>> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open

>> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which

>>support alternative

>> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers.

>>However I believe

>> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are

>>supported on the

>> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in

> > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding

>meta information to

>> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/)

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>--

>> >> >>

>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >> >>

>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>>>--

>> >> >>

>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >> >>

>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >>games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> games_access mailing list

>> >> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >>

>> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 2

>> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600

>> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

>> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> Message-ID: <p06230992c1ccd180a166@[192.168.1.100]>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>> >>

>> >> Hi Amit!

>> >>

>> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

>> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

>> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

>> >>

>> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

>> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

>> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out!

>> >>

>> >> Michelle

>> >>

>> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

>>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

>> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission -

>> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best

>> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

>> >> >

>> >> >######

>> >> >

>> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

>>Oct. (I program

>> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

>>captions/subtitles

>> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption

>> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

>>the Internet to

>> >> >forget anyone" type of website.

>> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime

>> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet

>> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here,

>>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

> > >> >

>> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,

>> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

>>multilingual. If

>> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

>>website on to

>> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

>> >> >

>> >> >Some quickies about the site,

>> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

>> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to

>> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

>> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

>> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

>> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video

>> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.

>> >> >

>> >> >Stay warm.

>> >> >

>> >> >Thanks!

>> >> >John

>> >> >

>> >> >######

>> >> >

>> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> Message: 3

>> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800

>> >> From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>

>> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

>> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"

>> >> <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> Message-ID:

>> >> <a6673b8d0701112159i5c516d45of422ecd306abbfc8 at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>> >>

>> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to

>> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about

>> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not

>> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the

>> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the

>> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over

>> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was

>> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's.

>> >>

>> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that

>> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a

>> >> community of people.

>> >>

>> >> -Reid

>> >>

>> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> >> > Hi Amit!

>> >> >

>> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

>> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

>> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

>> >> >

>> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

>> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

>> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out!

>> >> >

>> >> > Michelle

>> >> >

>> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

>>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

>> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission -

>> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best

>> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

>> >> > >

>> >> > >######

>> >> > >

>> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

>>Oct. (I program

>> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

>>captions/subtitles

>> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption

>> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

>>the Internet to

>> >> > >forget anyone" type of website.

>> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime

>> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet

>> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here,

>>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

>> >> > >

>> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,

>> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

>>multilingual. If

>> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

>>website on to

>> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

>> >> > >

>> >> > >Some quickies about the site,

>> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

> > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in

>the works to

>> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

>> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

>> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

>> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video

>> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.

>> >> > >

>> >> > >Stay warm.

>> >> > >

>> >> > >Thanks!

>> >> > >John

>> >> > >

>> >> > >######

>> >> > >

>> >> > >_______________________________________________

>> >> > >games_access mailing list

>> >> > >games_access at igda.org

>> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> > games_access mailing list

>> >> > games_access at igda.org

>> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ------------------------------

>> >>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> games_access mailing list

>> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

>> >> ********************************************

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> >--

>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> .......................................

>> these are mediocre times and people are

>> losing hope. it's hard for many people

>> to believe that there are extraordinary

>> things inside themselves, as well as

>> others. i hope you can keep an open

>> mind.

>> -- "unbreakable"

>> .......................................

>> _______________________________________________

>> games_access mailing list

>> games_access at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>

>_______________________________________________

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