[games_access] secondlife...from eelke

Reid Kimball reid at rbkdesign.com
Sat Jan 13 01:15:42 EST 2007


Whoops, I need to make clear that I also think efforts in controller
design is very important and applicable to digital games. I don't want
people thinking that I'm only interested in software, which I'm not.

-Reid

On 1/12/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital

> games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our

> members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and

> hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our

> battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital

> life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility

> of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any

> platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of

> the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games --

> we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING

> experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many

> people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that

> to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the

> accessibility of Microsoft Excel.

>

> If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can*

> also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have

> more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be

> a gaming environment but in itself is not that.

>

> I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we

> go too far down SL lane."

>

> My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or

> anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it

> ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall

> 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money

> to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc.

> Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a

> lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again.

> I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some

> wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post

> as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than

> we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games

> in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not

> Flash itself was accessible.

>

> Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :)

>

> >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more

> >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the

> >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow

> >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our

> >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning

> >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web

> >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only

> >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut

> >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :)

> >

> >-Reid

> >

> >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit

> >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you

> >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few

> >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D

> >>

> >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe.

> >>

> >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the

> >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and

> >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged

> >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create

> >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it

> >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded

> >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore,

> >>does not work with the accessible viewer.

> >>

> >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game

> >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that

> >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or

> >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support

> >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what

> >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the

> >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's

> >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is

> >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we

> >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical

> >>entrance to the library or school or home?

> > >

> >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to

> >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do

> >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus,

> >>decreasing our effectiveness.

> >>

> >> Michelle

> >>

> >> ______________

> >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800

> >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

> >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

> >> >To: games_access at igda.org

> >> >

> >> >Hi,

> >> >

> >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside

> >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual

> >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no

> >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this

> >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its

> >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf.

> >> >

> >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous

> >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain

> >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy

> >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is

> >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL.

> >> >

> >> >Cheers Eelke

> >> >

> >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org

> >><games_access-request at igda.org> wrote:

> >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to

> >> >> games_access at igda.org

> >> >>

> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> >> >> games_access-request at igda.org

> >> >>

> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

> >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org

> >> >>

> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> Today's Topics:

> >> >>

> >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

> >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn)

> >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn)

> >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball)

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >>

> >> >> Message: 1

> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600

> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

> >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind

> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230991c1cccfa63251@[192.168.1.100]>

> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

> >> >>

> >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created

> >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable

> >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An

> >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming

> >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market.

> >> >>

> >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had

> >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it

> >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel.

> >> >>

> >> >> Michelle

> >> >>

> >> >> >Hi all,

> >> >> >

> >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or not a law suit

> >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run

> >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They

> >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly

> >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members

> >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy

> >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member

> >> >> >of a unique club.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences for fun or

> >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by law to make

> >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those groups should

> >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and

> > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as inclusive as

> >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out many millions

> >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up

> >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO that requires

> >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no

> >> >> >matter how terrible that may be.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to

> >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a

> >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one place that

> >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when games are being

> >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and requirements

> >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to all students

> >> >> >using it.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >-Reid

> >> >> >

> >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also

> >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as an invitation

> >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free

> >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and to note when

> >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game" (and therefore

> >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part,

> >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to active members, we

> >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take

> >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much

> >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult to justify

> >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL project that is

> >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so thin with so

> >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is closer to our

> >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are so many much

> >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming

> >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that which in SL is not

> >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated

> >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide

> >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also

> >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create businesses and

> >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and

> >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were discussing the

> >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and

> >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here should ever be

> >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming in to heckle

> >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden Lab's response

> >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original article received.

> >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the blind need to find

> >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense

> >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm

> >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball has many, many

> >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great")

> >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed

> >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in this world do.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for the Blind and

> >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just a construct

> >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this

> >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a construct if we used

> >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that means). But to

> > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is

> >second life.

> >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more

> >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that

> >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box." There are others

> >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some games. There

> >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of

> >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is prohibitive or they've

> >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of increasing awareness

> >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone who wishes to

> >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible SL client to

> >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do. But SL is not

> >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a lawsuit has

> >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's not "a game."

> >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high

> >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within the industry

> >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see no reason why

> >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested

> >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would be great and I

> >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee and use this

> >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help

> >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us

> >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and

> >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but some will be able

> >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Michelle

> >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together to discuss

> >> >> >>the issues.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability

> >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an

> >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of this type of

> >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be deliver by the

> >> >> >> >lab.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make sl better for

> >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do have trouble

> >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open

> >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem

> >>in detail?

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >> >Thank You,

> >> >> >> >Tom Roome

> >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant

> >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas

> >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >________________________________

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d. michelle hinn

> >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM

> >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List

> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

> >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place of business"

> >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is

> >>following it

> >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several US laws. SL is

> >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create

> >>games...or

> >> >> >> >businesses...or classes...

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make real money off

> > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting legal territory.

> >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming

> >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of

> >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to align themselves

> >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is valuable to them at

> >> >> >> >whatever point in time.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a bit -- and SL

> >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to defend themselves

> >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on the legal books

> >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned).

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >Michelle

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do

> >> >> >>need to keep

> >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a

> >>simulation instead of a

> >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine).

> >>While this may seem

> >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation

> >> >> >>discussion), it can

> >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally.

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>Greets,

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>Richard

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----

> >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

> >> >> >> >>To: <games_access at igda.org>

> >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM

> >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

> >> >> >>SecondLife

> >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as

> >>I'm about to guest

> >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova.

> >> >> >> >>>

> >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was

> >>bound to happen

> >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are

> >>being used in

> >> >> >> >>> classrooms.

> >> >> >> >>>

> >> >> >> >>> Michelle

> >> >> >> >>>

> >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800

> >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

> >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>,

> >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" <r.van.tol at bartimeus.nl>

> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

> >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list

> >>but it wasn't

> >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's

> >> >> >> >>>>mail.

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke

> >> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------

> >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

> >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM

> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

> >>accessible

> >> >> >> >>>>to the blind

> >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >>

> >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the

> >>subject matter

> >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit):

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the

> >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next?

> >>Should they sue the

> >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that

> >>verbally describe

> >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows

> >>only work for

> >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right"

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder

> >>linden labs)

> >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to follow the W3C

> >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second life viewer open

> >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which

> >>support alternative

> >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers.

> >>However I believe

> >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are

> >>supported on the

> >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in

> > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding

> >meta information to

> >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/)

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>--

> >> >> >>

> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

> >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

> >> >> >>

> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>

> >> >> >> >>>>--

> >> >> >>

> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

> >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

> >> >> >>

> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________

> >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list

> >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________

> >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list

> >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________

> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list

> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________

> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list

> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> >> games_access mailing list

> >> >> >> games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >_______________________________________________

> >> >> >games_access mailing list

> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ------------------------------

> >> >>

> >> >> Message: 2

> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600

> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230992c1ccd180a166@[192.168.1.100]>

> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

> >> >>

> >> >> Hi Amit!

> >> >>

> >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

> >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

> >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

> >> >>

> >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

> >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

> >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out!

> >> >>

> >> >> Michelle

> >> >>

> >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

> >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission -

> >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best

> >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

> >> >> >

> >> >> >######

> >> >> >

> >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

> >>Oct. (I program

> >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

> >>captions/subtitles

> >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption

> >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

> >>the Internet to

> >> >> >forget anyone" type of website.

> >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime

> >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet

> >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here,

> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

> > > >> >

> >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,

> >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

> >>multilingual. If

> >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

> >>website on to

> >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Some quickies about the site,

> >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

> >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in the works to

> >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

> >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

> >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

> >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video

> >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Stay warm.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Thanks!

> >> >> >John

> >> >> >

> >> >> >######

> >> >> >

> >> >> >_______________________________________________

> >> >> >games_access mailing list

> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ------------------------------

> >> >>

> >> >> Message: 3

> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800

> >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>

> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

> >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"

> >> >> <games_access at igda.org>

> >> >> Message-ID:

> >> >> <a6673b8d0701112159i5c516d45of422ecd306abbfc8 at mail.gmail.com>

> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

> >> >>

> >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to

> >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really worried about

> >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not

> >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the

> >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the

> >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over

> >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was

> >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's.

> >> >>

> >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that

> >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a

> >> >> community of people.

> >> >>

> >> >> -Reid

> >> >>

> >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> >> >> > Hi Amit!

> >> >> >

> >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

> >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

> >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

> >> >> >

> >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

> >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

> >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out!

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Michelle

> >> >> >

> >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

> >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/. His mission -

> >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one of the best

> >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >######

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

> >>Oct. (I program

> >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

> >>captions/subtitles

> >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the masses caption

> >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

> >>the Internet to

> >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website.

> >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime

> >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet

> >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here,

> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,

> >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

> >>multilingual. If

> >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

> >>website on to

> >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >Some quickies about the site,

> >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

> > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in

> >the works to

> >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

> >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

> >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

> >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer than the video

> >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >Stay warm.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >Thanks!

> >> >> > >John

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >######

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >_______________________________________________

> >> >> > >games_access mailing list

> >> >> > >games_access at igda.org

> >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> > _______________________________________________

> >> >> > games_access mailing list

> >> >> > games_access at igda.org

> >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> ------------------------------

> >> >>

> >> >> _______________________________________________

> >> >> games_access mailing list

> >> >> games_access at igda.org

> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

> >> >> ********************************************

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >--

> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

> >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

> >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

> >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> .......................................

> >> these are mediocre times and people are

> >> losing hope. it's hard for many people

> >> to believe that there are extraordinary

> >> things inside themselves, as well as

> >> others. i hope you can keep an open

> >> mind.

> >> -- "unbreakable"

> >> .......................................

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> games_access mailing list

> >> games_access at igda.org

> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> >>

> >_______________________________________________

> >games_access mailing list

> >games_access at igda.org

> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> _______________________________________________

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