[games_access] secondlife...from eelke

d. michelle hinn hinn at uiuc.edu
Sat Jan 13 15:43:56 EST 2007


Good point -- and It is something that's often so tied in with a
console or a game and often has no other purpose than to support a
game that it would be unwise for us not to more actively as a SIG
support those efforts.

Michelle


>Whoops, I need to make clear that I also think efforts in controller

>design is very important and applicable to digital games. I don't want

>people thinking that I'm only interested in software, which I'm not.

>

>-Reid

>

>On 1/12/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital

>> games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our

>> members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and

>> hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our

>> battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital

>> life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility

>> of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any

>> platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of

>> the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games --

>> we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING

>> experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many

>> people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that

>> to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the

>> accessibility of Microsoft Excel.

>>

>> If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can*

>> also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have

>> more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be

>> a gaming environment but in itself is not that.

>>

>> I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we

>> go too far down SL lane."

>>

>> My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or

>> anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it

>> ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall

>> 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money

>> to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc.

>> Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a

>> lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again.

>> I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some

>> wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post

>> as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than

>> we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games

>> in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not

>> Flash itself was accessible.

>>

>> Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :)

>>

>> >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more

>> >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the

>> >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow

>> >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our

>> >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning

>> >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web

>> >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only

>> >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut

>> >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :)

>> >

>> >-Reid

>> >

>> >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit

>> >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you

>> >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few

>> >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D

>> >>

>> >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe.

>> >>

>> >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the

>> >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and

>> >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged

> > >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create

>> >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it

>> >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded

>> >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore,

>> >>does not work with the accessible viewer.

>> >>

>> >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game

>> >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that

>> >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or

>> >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support

>> >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what

>> >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the

>> >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's

>> >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is

>> >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we

>> >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical

>> >>entrance to the library or school or home?

>> > >

>> >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to

>> >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do

>> >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus,

>> >>decreasing our effectiveness.

>> >>

>> >> Michelle

>> >>

>> >> ______________

>> >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800

>> >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

>> >> >To: games_access at igda.org

>> >> >

>> >> >Hi,

>> >> >

>> >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside

>> >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual

>> >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no

>> >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this

>> >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its

>> >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf.

>> >> >

>> >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous

>> >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain

>> >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy

>> >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is

>> >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL.

>> >> >

>> >> >Cheers Eelke

>> >> >

>> >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org

>> >><games_access-request at igda.org> wrote:

>> >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to

>> >> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >>

>> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> >> >> games_access-request at igda.org

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org

>> >> >>

>> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Today's Topics:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>> >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn)

>> >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn)

>> >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball)

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Message: 1

>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600

>> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making

>> >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind

>> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230991c1cccfa63251@[192.168.1.100]>

>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created

>> >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable

> > >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An

>> >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming

>> >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had

>> >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it

>> >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Michelle

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >Hi all,

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or

>>not a law suit

>> >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run

>> >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They

>> >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly

>> >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members

>> >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy

>> >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member

>> >> >> >of a unique club.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences

>>for fun or

>> >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by

>>law to make

>> >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those

>>groups should

>> >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and

>> > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as

>>inclusive as

>> >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out

>>many millions

>> >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up

>> >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO

>>that requires

>> >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no

>> >> >> >matter how terrible that may be.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to

>> >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a

>> >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one

>>place that

>> >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when

>>games are being

>> >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and

>>requirements

>> >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to

>>all students

>> >> >> >using it.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >-Reid

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also

>> >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as

>>an invitation

>> >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free

>> >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and

>>to note when

>> >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game"

>>(and therefore

>> >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part,

>> >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to

>>active members, we

>> >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take

>> >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much

>> >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult

>>to justify

>> >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL

>>project that is

>> >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so

>>thin with so

>> >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is

>>closer to our

>> >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are

>>so many much

>> >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming

>> >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that

>>which in SL is not

>> >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated

>> >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide

>> >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also

>> >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create

>>businesses and

> > >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and

>> >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were

>>discussing the

>> >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and

>> >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here

>>should ever be

>> >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming

>>in to heckle

>> >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden

>>Lab's response

>> >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original

>>article received.

>> >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the

>>blind need to find

>> >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense

>> >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm

>> >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball

>>has many, many

>> >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great")

>> >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed

>> >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in

>>this world do.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for

>>the Blind and

>> >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just

>>a construct

>> >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this

>> >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a

>>construct if we used

>> >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that

>>means). But to

>> > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is

>> >second life.

>> >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more

>> >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that

>> >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box."

>>There are others

>> >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some

>>games. There

>> >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of

>> >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is

>>prohibitive or they've

>> >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of

>>increasing awareness

>> >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone

>>who wishes to

>> >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible

>>SL client to

>> >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do.

>>But SL is not

>> >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a

>>lawsuit has

>> >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's

>>not "a game."

>> >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high

>> >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within

>>the industry

>> >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see

>>no reason why

>> >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested

>> >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would

>>be great and I

>> >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee

>>and use this

>> >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help

>> >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us

>> >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and

>> >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but

>>some will be able

>> >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort.

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> Michelle

>> >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together

>>to discuss

>> >> >> >>the issues.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability

>> >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an

> > >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of

>this type of

>> >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be

>>deliver by the

>> >> >> >> >lab.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make

>>sl better for

>> >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do

>>have trouble

>> >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open

>> >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem

>> >>in detail?

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >> >Thank You,

>> >> >> >> >Tom Roome

>> >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant

>> >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas

>> >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >________________________________

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d.

>>michelle hinn

>> >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM

>> >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List

>> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting

>>discussion about making

>> >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place

>>of business"

>> >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is

>> >>following it

>> >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several

>>US laws. SL is

>> >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create

>> >>games...or

>> >> >> >> >businesses...or classes...

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make

>>real money off

>> > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting

>>legal territory.

>> >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming

>> >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of

>> >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to

>>align themselves

>> >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is

>>valuable to them at

>> >> >> >> >whatever point in time.

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a

>>bit -- and SL

>> >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to

>>defend themselves

>> >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on

>>the legal books

>> >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned).

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >Michelle

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do

>> >> >> >>need to keep

>> >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a

>> >>simulation instead of a

>> >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine).

>> >>While this may seem

>> >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation

>> >> >> >>discussion), it can

>> >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally.

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>Greets,

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>Richard

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----

>> >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> >> >> >>To: <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM

>> >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion

>>about making

>> >> >> >>SecondLife

>> >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as

>> >>I'm about to guest

>> >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova.

>> >> >> >> >>>

>> >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was

>> >>bound to happen

>> >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are

>> >>being used in

>> >> >> >> >>> classrooms.

>> >> >> >> >>>

> > >> >> >> >>> Michelle

>> >> >> >> >>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800

>> >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>,

>> >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" <r.van.tol at bartimeus.nl>

>> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>> >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list

>> >>but it wasn't

>> >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's

>> >> >> >> >>>>mail.

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke

>> >> >> >> > >>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------

>> >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>

>> >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM

>> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife

>> >>accessible

>> >> >> >> >>>>to the blind

>> >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >>

>> >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the

>> >>subject matter

>> >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit):

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the

>> >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next?

>> >>Should they sue the

>> >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that

>> >>verbally describe

>> >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows

>> >>only work for

>> >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right"

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder

>> >>linden labs)

>> >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to

>>follow the W3C

>> >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second

>>life viewer open

>> >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which

>> >>support alternative

>> >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers.

>> >>However I believe

>> >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are

>> >>supported on the

>> >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in

>> > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding

>> >meta information to

>> >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/)

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>--

>> >> >> >>

>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >> >> >>

>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>

>> >> >> >> >>>>--

>> >> >> >>

>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >> >> >>

>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >

>> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> >> games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> ------------------------------

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Message: 2

>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600

>> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>

>> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

>> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230992c1ccd180a166@[192.168.1.100]>

>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Hi Amit!

>> >> >>

>> >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

>> >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

>> >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

>> >> >>

>> >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

>> >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

>> >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out!

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Michelle

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

>> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

>> >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/.

>>His mission -

>> >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one

>>of the best

>> >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >######

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

>> >>Oct. (I program

>> >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

>> >>captions/subtitles

>> >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the

>>masses caption

>> >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

>> >>the Internet to

>> >> >> >forget anyone" type of website.

>> >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime

>> >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet

>> >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here,

>> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

>> > > >> >

>> >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,

>> >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

>> >>multilingual. If

>> >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

>> >>website on to

>> >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Some quickies about the site,

>> >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

>> >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is

>>in the works to

>> >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

>> >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

>> >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

>> >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer

>>than the video

>> >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Stay warm.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >Thanks!

>> >> >> >John

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >######

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> ------------------------------

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Message: 3

>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800

>> >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>

> > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site

>> >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"

>> >> >> <games_access at igda.org>

>> >> >> Message-ID:

>> >> >> <a6673b8d0701112159i5c516d45of422ecd306abbfc8 at mail.gmail.com>

>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>> >> >>

>> >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to

>> >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really

>>worried about

>> >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not

>> >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the

>> >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the

>> >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over

>> >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was

>> >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that

>> >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a

>> >> >> community of people.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> -Reid

>> >> >>

>> >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:

>> >> >> > Hi Amit!

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter

>> >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm

>> >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in

>> >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I

>> >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out!

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Michelle

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel

>> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just

>> >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/.

>>His mission -

>> >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is

>>one of the best

>> >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >######

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since

>> >>Oct. (I program

>> >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add

>> >>captions/subtitles

>> >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the

>>masses caption

>> >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want

>> >>the Internet to

>> >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website.

>> >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video

>>or Quicktime

>> >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now,

>>excluding Internet

>> >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here,

>> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers,

>>video bloggers,

>> >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are

>> >>multilingual. If

>> >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the

>> >>website on to

>> >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >Some quickies about the site,

>> >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.

>> > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in

>> >the works to

>> >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.

>> >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?

>> >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.

>> >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer

>>than the video

>> >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video,

>>you'll get hurt.

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >Stay warm.

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >Thanks!

>> >> >> > >John

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >######

>> >> >> > >

>> >> >> > >_______________________________________________

>> >> >> > >games_access mailing list

>> >> >> > >games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >> > _______________________________________________

>> >> >> > games_access mailing list

>> >> >> > games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

> > >> >> >

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> ------------------------------

>> >> >>

>> >> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> >> games_access mailing list

>> >> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11

>> >> >> ********************************************

>> >> >>

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >--

>> >>

>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>> >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171

>> >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>> >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com

>> >>

>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> .......................................

>> >> these are mediocre times and people are

>> >> losing hope. it's hard for many people

>> >> to believe that there are extraordinary

>> >> things inside themselves, as well as

>> >> others. i hope you can keep an open

>> >> mind.

>> >> -- "unbreakable"

>> >> .......................................

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> games_access mailing list

>> >> games_access at igda.org

>> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> >>

>> >_______________________________________________

>> >games_access mailing list

>> >games_access at igda.org

>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>> _______________________________________________

>> games_access mailing list

>> games_access at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>

>_______________________________________________

>games_access mailing list

>games_access at igda.org

>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access



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