[games_access] secondlife...from eelke
d. michelle hinn
hinn at uiuc.edu
Sat Jan 13 15:43:56 EST 2007
Good point -- and It is something that's often so tied in with a
console or a game and often has no other purpose than to support a
game that it would be unwise for us not to more actively as a SIG
support those efforts.
Michelle
>Whoops, I need to make clear that I also think efforts in controller
>design is very important and applicable to digital games. I don't want
>people thinking that I'm only interested in software, which I'm not.
>
>-Reid
>
>On 1/12/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> I agree -- we are only one small group founded on focusing on digital
>> games rather than platforms -- that's not to say that some of our
>> members aren't doing great things with controllers and platforms and
>> hosts and such. But as I said yesterday...we have to pick our
>> battles. Second Life's been out there for a long while (in digital
>> life) now and I can see us supporting efforts for the accessibility
>> of SL, it's really the games that are created within that and any
>> platform that we as a group can do the most good. We are a part of
>> the IGDA, which means that we are a group focused on digital games --
>> we develop and help developers create meaningful, fun, GAMING
>> experiences. There's so much to tackle just with that and so many
>> people already doing web accessibility, etc that we should leave that
>> to those experts, just as we would not be involved in the
>> accessibility of Microsoft Excel.
>>
>> If SL were comparable to World of Warcraft, which is a game but *can*
>> also be many other things (social environments, etc) then we'd have
>> more of a SIG concern. But SL is all those other things and *can* be
>> a gaming environment but in itself is not that.
>>
>> I just wanted to throw out some "well lets think about this before we
>> go too far down SL lane."
>>
>> My *personal* (note: this does not represent the SIG or the IGDA or
>> anyone other than me) take on SL is that I'd rather not deal with it
>> ever again. It was a world of hurt trying to teach with it in Fall
>> 2005 with crashing servers, constantly needing to pay more REAL money
>> to allow the students to do what we'd set out for them to do, etc.
>> Yes, Fall 2005 was a year and some change ago. But it would take a
>> lot to convince me to teach game design using that environment again.
>> I now teach with Flash and my students have been able to make some
>> wonderful beginnings at one switch and audio games -- nothing to post
>> as yet but we definitely got more into the meat of game design than
>> we'd ever gotten using SL and we were able to focus on creating games
>> in Flash that were accessible without getting into whether or not
>> Flash itself was accessible.
>>
>> Michelle (who loves a good discussion!) :)
>>
>> >As a SIG I think we concentrate on making digital games more
>> >accessible. If it deals with Flash or the web, we only focus on the
>> >game itself, not the platform. I've seen flash games that can allow
>> >the user to configure their controls (I think), that's one of our
>> >recommendations. They can also include vision modes and captioning
>> >options. I believe it wouldn't be wise for us to tackle web
>> >accessibility issues while we are part of the IGDA and should only
>> >focus on the games themselves as much as possible. It seems clear cut
>> >to me, but I tend see only in black and white sometimes. :)
>> >
>> >-Reid
>> >
>> >On 1/12/07, hinn at uiuc.edu <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> >> Forwarded from Eelke (see below)...ah it's a class action suit
>> >>WITHIN SL not in real life. Lol. Well, that's what happens when you
>> >>have someone with dyslexia (me) leading the group. I miss a few
>> >>words here and there like "virtual" lawsuit. :D
>> >>
>> >> Still, it's fun to discuss as if it were in real life. Hehe.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, those are good points, Eelke, about the enourmity of the
>> >>task. And it's not our task alone to do -- the schools and
>> >>libraries have to have to put some work in, as they are charged
> > >>with creating accessible materials...and they *might* create
>> >>something accessible, only to have people unable to get to it
>> >>because SL is not accessible to some or because however they coded
>> >>it was not in line with how the viewer gets coded and, therefore,
>> >>does not work with the accessible viewer.
>> >>
>> >> And then there's the matter of...where do we draw the line? A game
>> >>can be played out using a web browser and, say, flash -- does that
>> >>mean we are in the business of providing web accessibility and/or
>> >>flash accessibility guidelines? It's not that we should not support
>> >>and contribute to the discussion but we cannot lose focus on what
>> >>we are about -- game accessibility. We can contribute to the
>> >>middleground between a "game" and a "platform" because, yes, that's
>> >>important. If no one can get TO a game because the very platform is
>> >>preventing that, well, that impacts game accessibility. But if we
>> >>go too far, why not focus on the accessibility of the physical
>> >>entrance to the library or school or home?
>> > >
>> >> Yes...I'm throwing this way, way out there...but I'm trying to
>> >>provoke a dialogue on where boundaries may lie and what we can do
>> >>best as a SIG without spreading ourselves too thin and, thus,
>> >>decreasing our effectiveness.
>> >>
>> >> Michelle
>> >>
>> >> ______________
>> >> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:22:57 -0800
>> >> >From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>> >> >Subject: Re: games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11
>> >> >To: games_access at igda.org
>> >> >
>> >> >Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> >Interesting discussion. Just for the record a class action inside
>> >> >Second life has no real life legal foundations. Its just a virtual
>> >> >equivalent of a lawsuit probably only used to get attention. So no
>> >> >real life law suit is being filed against Linden labs. I think this
>> >> >misunderstanding pissed off a lot of people, especially since its
>> >> >commonplace now to sue anyone here in the US over trivial stuf.
>> >> >
>> >> >My 2 cents: making SL open source is good but it is still an enourmous
>> >> >amount of work to create your own accessible viewer and its uncertain
>> >> >if such a viewer which would require meta information and taxonomy
>> >> >trees of all the objects inside SL in order to be usefull, is
>> >> >supported by the underlying object representation in SL.
>> >> >
>> >> >Cheers Eelke
>> >> >
>> >> >On 1/12/07, games_access-request at igda.org
>> >><games_access-request at igda.org> wrote:
>> >> >> Send games_access mailing list submissions to
>> >> >> games_access at igda.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> >> games_access-request at igda.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> >> games_access-owner at igda.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> >> than "Re: Contents of games_access digest..."
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Today's Topics:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. Re: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife
>> >> >> accessible to the blind (d. michelle hinn)
>> >> >> 2. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (d. michelle hinn)
>> >> >> 3. Re: Open Captions - Beta site (Reid Kimball)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 1
>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:44:12 -0600
>> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion about making
>> >> >> SecondLife accessible to the blind
>> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230991c1cccfa63251@[192.168.1.100]>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, I agree -- the main issue at hand is when these games created
>> >> >> by SL members are used in classrooms...there is no reasonable
> > >> >> accommodation for this. What can substitute for a virtual world? An
>> >> >> old school text book? And SL really courts the educational gaming
>> >> >> market....much more so than the commercial gaming market.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It just brings up an interesting point of debate for sure -- we had
>> >> >> to talk laws at some point, after all. :) We'll be talking about it
>> >> >> at GDC during our Serious Games Summit Panel.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Michelle
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Hi all,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I'm just chiming in on the overall debate of whether or
>>not a law suit
>> >> >> >is appropriate. In the case of a game or even a simulation world run
>> >> >> >by a company I think of it as a private country or golf club. They
>> >> >> >have certain rules for membership (download this, pay us a monthly
>> >> >> >fee, whatever). Some will be more exclusive by requiring its members
>> >> >> >to use certain controllers, like the guitar for Guitar Hero. You buy
>> >> >> >that game and use that controller, you automatically become a member
>> >> >> >of a unique club.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Now, should companies that provide interactive experiences
>>for fun or
>> >> >> >even profit, as in the case of Second Life be required by
>>law to make
>> >> >> >them accessible to all? Technically, I don't think those
>>groups should
>> >> >> >be required by law. However, I think it's foolish of them and
>> > > >> >incredibly disheartening if they decide to not to be as
>>inclusive as
>> >> >> >possible. It doesn't make sense financially to shut out
>>many millions
>> >> >> >of potential customers but I also think that the choice should be up
>> >> >> >to them to decide, not a law. If a company makes an MMO
>>that requires
>> >> >> >someone to play without any disabilities, that's their choice, no
>> >> >> >matter how terrible that may be.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >When it comes to education, a lot of people don't have the luxury to
>> >> >> >choose which "club" they join, unless they have the finances for a
>> >> >> >private school. Usually, they must go to school at the one
>>place that
>> >> >> >is available to them in their town. In that case, when
>>games are being
>> >> >> >used in a class room, I believe there should be laws and
>>requirements
>> >> >> >that interactive educational experiences be accessible to
>>all students
>> >> >> >using it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >-Reid
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> >> >> >> That's great, Thomas. I wish that someone from Linden had also
>> >> >> >> contacted us to get involved so I'll take your email as
>>an invitation
>> >> >> >> even though you are not with Linden.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Part of the reason for this list is that it is a forum for free
>> >> >> >> discussion about issues pertaining to accessibility and
>>to note when
>> >> >> >> discrepancies exist -- such as whether SL is a "game"
>>(and therefore
>> >> >> >> immediately involves us) or a larger project that, in large part,
>> >> >> >> falls outside the scope of our SIG. With regard to
>>active members, we
>> >> >> >> are small and we have to choose our battles. Please do not take
>> >> >> >> offense at this -- I mean no offense at all. But with so much
>> >> >> >> territory to cover in the gaming world, it is difficult
>>to justify
>> >> >> >> having the entire SIG be completely involved in a SL
>>project that is
>> >> >> >> not purely a game world when we are already spread so
>>thin with so
>> >> >> >> many commitments that broadly span the industry. SL is
>>closer to our
>> >> >> >> mission than the web accessibility issues -- there are
>>so many much
>> >> >> >> more experienced groups already doing this. But only the gaming
>> >> >> >> portion of it is related to our mission -- so that
>>which in SL is not
>> >> >> >> a game goes beyond our SIG scope.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Simulated worlds are not automatically games and SL, a simulated
>> >> >> >> world, has said that they are not a game but, rather, provide
>> >> >> >> facilitation for people who choose to create games. But they also
>> >> >> >> provide facilitation for people who choose to create
>>businesses and
> > >> >> >> anything else people can imagine in that world.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The issue at hand is that there is a lawsuit on the table now and
>> >> >> >> it's not from us. So those of us discussing it were
>>discussing the
>> >> >> >> lawsuit based on our experiences with SL personally and
>> >> >> > > professionally. I see no reason why discussion here
>>should ever be
>> >> >> >> censured -- with the exception of someone just coming
>>in to heckle
>> >> >> >> us. The more disturbing thing in my mind is not Linden
>>Lab's response
>> >> >> >> but the responses that the reporter of the original
>>article received.
>> >> >> >> One comment involved, essentially, saying that the
>>blind need to find
>> >> >> >> a real life and stop worrying about "second life." I take offense
>> >> >> >> when I see man's inhumanity to man. It's not the first (or, I'm
>> >> >> >> afraid, the last) time we've seen this -- Reid Kimball
>>has many, many
>> >> >> >> examples of fantastic (as in "hard to believe" not as in "great")
>> >> >> >> responses to the hearing impaired community's activism for closed
>> >> >> >> captioning in games. It disturbs me but many things in
>>this world do.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I was recently on NPR as part of a piece on Games for
>>the Blind and
>> >> >> >> have seen reaction to that, such as "disability is just
>>a construct
>> >> >> >> and games are not inaccessible." If we were to take this
>> >> >> >> academically, sure, ok, disability *could* be a
>>construct if we used
>> >> >> >> disturbing terms like "normal" (whatever the h*ll that
>>means). But to
>> > > >> >> suggest that games are accessible to all? No way. Nor is
>> >second life.
>> >> >> >> Yes, there are people who can play some games using more
>> >> >> >> extraordinary measures than a gamer without a disability that
>> >> >> >> prevents them from playing a game "out of the box."
>>There are others
>> >> >> >> who don't need particularly fancy set ups to play some
>>games. There
>> >> >> >> are others who cannot play at all -- either because the prices of
>> >> >> >> assistive technologies to play such games is
>>prohibitive or they've
>> >> >> >> assumed (as the designer has) that games are not for them.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> So this points, again, to our larger purpose of
>>increasing awareness
>> >> >> >> for many, many issues. By all means, I encourage anyone
>>who wishes to
>> >> >> >> form/join in a committee to help create an accessible
>>SL client to
>> >> >> >> have full backing from the SIG as best as we can do.
>>But SL is not
>> >> >> >> the only issue out there -- it's just the first that a
>>lawsuit has
>> >> >> >> been pressed against and, as Richard pointed out, it's
>>not "a game."
>> >> >> >> So while as a SIG on a whole we cannot drop the myriad of high
>> >> >> >> profile activism that we are doing as advocates within
>>the industry
>> >> >> >> to bring about awareness about disability issues, I see
>>no reason why
>> >> >> >> you, Thomas, cannot use this forum as a way to recruit interested
>> >> >> >> members in the committee you suggest.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> So after my long winded reply...yes, a committee would
>>be great and I
>> >> >> >> support that. I encourage you spearhead this committee
>>and use this
>> >> >> >> list as a way to organize and announce meetings. I will help
>> >> >> >> facilitate that as much as possible. At the same time, many of us
>> >> >> >> will not be able to participate due to other time commitments and
>> >> >> >> personal and professional research interests -- but
>>some will be able
>> >> >> >> to so and it's worth asking people to join in your effort.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Michelle
>> >> >> >> IGDA Game Accessibility SIG Chair
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Fact one: SL has a disability group that come together
>>to discuss
>> >> >> >>the issues.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Fact two: The lab have contracted someone to be there disability
>> >> >> >> >coordinator and I am trying to work with him.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Fact Three: The University of Texas at Dallas have purchase an
> > >> >> >> >island for me to work on the Accessibility issues of
>this type of
>> >> >> >> >environment. I am still waiting on the island to be
>>deliver by the
>> >> >> >> >lab.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >This group needs to come together and help me to make
>>sl better for
>> >> >> >> >all of us and stop pointing out what could happen.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I know many people with disabilities in sl and some do
>>have trouble
>> >> >> >> >and some do just fine, but now since the lab have made sl open
>> >> >> >> >source application then we can make a accessible client for all.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I suggest that we form a committee to look at this problem
>> >>in detail?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >> >Thank You,
>> >> >> >> >Tom Roome
>> >> >> >> >ATEC Teacher Assistant
>> >> >> >> >The University of Texas at Dallas
>> >> >> >> >E-mail: thomas.roome at student.utdallas.edu
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >________________________________
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >From: games_access-bounces at igda.org on behalf of d.
>>michelle hinn
>> >> >> >> >Sent: Thu 1/11/2007 5:39 PM
>> >> >> > > >To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [games_access] Fwd: interesting
>>discussion about making
>> >> >> >> >SecondLife accessible to the blind
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Yes, this is true -- and actually since it's a "place
>>of business"
>> >> >> >> >for some that even Reuters international news service is
>> >>following it
>> >> >> >> >puts them into even more danger according to several
>>US laws. SL is
>> >> >> >> >not a game but an online world that allows users to create
>> >>games...or
>> >> >> >> >businesses...or classes...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >And since users *can* (and I'm not saying will) make
>>real money off
>> > > >> >> >of their ventures...it places it into interesting
>>legal territory.
>> >> >> >> >Although...with SL really pushing their product at gaming
>> >> >> >> >conferences, it makes them into a (sorry for the geekiness of
>> >> >> >> >this...) a shape-shifter of sorts, allowing them to
>>align themselves
>> >> >> >> >as whatever form (business and concept-wise) is
>>valuable to them at
>> >> >> >> >whatever point in time.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >The game versus simulation should tie up the courts a
>>bit -- and SL
>> >> >> >> >needs to clarify whatever position they intend to
>>defend themselves
>> >> >> >> >with. Whatever angle they go with...that will be on
>>the legal books
>> >> >> >> >for some time in the US (unless/until overturned).
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Michelle
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>Thanks for this! I've already posted my 2eurocents. Maybe we do
>> >> >> >>need to keep
>> >> >> >> >>in mind that many consider Second Life to be "a
>> >>simulation instead of a
>> >> >> >> >>game" (to quote Margaret Robertson of Edge Magazine).
>> >>While this may seem
>> >> >> >> >>like a futile detail at the moment (games vs. simulation
>> >> >> >>discussion), it can
>> >> >> >> >>make all the difference in the world - legally.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>Greets,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>Richard
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> >>From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>
>> >> >> >> >>To: <games_access at igda.org>
>> >> >> >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:09 AM
>> >> >> >> >>Subject: [games_access] Fwd: interesting discussion
>>about making
>> >> >> >>SecondLife
>> >> >> >> >>accessible to the blind
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> Forwarding this for Eelke...interesting timing, as
>> >>I'm about to guest
>> >> >> >> >>> blog about accessibility of MMOGs on Terra Nova.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Hey the American Blind Federation sued AOL...this was
>> >>bound to happen
>> >> >> >> >>> to online games eventually, especially since they are
>> >>being used in
>> >> >> >> >>> classrooms.
>> >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> Michelle
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>ate: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:28:11 -0800
>> >> >> >> >>>>From: "Eelke Folmer" <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >>>>To: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>,
>> >> >> >> >>>> "Richard Tol van" <r.van.tol at bartimeus.nl>
>> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: Fwd: interesting discussion about making SecondLife
>> >> >> >> >>>>accessible to the blind
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>Hey I sent this one yesterday to the games access list
>> >>but it wasn't
>> >> >> >> >>>>featured in today's
>> >> >> >> >>>>mail.
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>cheers Eelke
>> >> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >> >> >> >>>>From: Eelke Folmer <eelke.folmer at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >>>>Date: Jan 9, 2007 3:46 PM
>> >> >> >> >>>>Subject: interesting discussion about making SecondLife
>> >>accessible
>> >> >> >> >>>>to the blind
>> >> >> >> >>>>To: games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >>>>>>http://www.it-analysis.com/blogs/Abrahams_Accessibility/2006/11/second_life_class_action.html?mode=full&hilite=13287#CM13287
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>People seem to have some radical opinions about the
>> >>subject matter
>> >> >> >> >>>>(especially with regard to the class action suit):
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>"Don't get me wrong; I'm all for supporting the rights of the
>> >> >> >> >>>>disabled, but this is beyond insane. What's next?
>> >>Should they sue the
>> >> >> >> >>>>Anderson Window Company for not making windows that
>> >>verbally describe
>> >> >> >> >>>>what's going on outside. I mean, really, those windows
>> >>only work for
>> >> >> >> >>>>people who can see, right? That's discrimination, right"
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>Interesting is the response from Joshua Linden (founder
>> >>linden labs)
>> >> >> >> >>>>about how Lindenlabs is trying to do their best to
>>follow the W3C
>> >> >> >> >>>>guidelines but rather decided to make the Second
>>life viewer open
>> >> >> >> >>>>source so people can write their own viewers which
>> >>support alternative
>> >> >> >> >>>>input and output mechanisms such as screen readers.
>> >>However I believe
>> >> >> >> >>>>this will only work if accessibility features are
>> >>supported on the
>> >> >> >> >>>>server side. E.g. how do you classify & describe an object in
>> > > >> > > >>>>Secondlife? (e.g. its the same problem with adding
>> >meta information to
>> >> >> >> >>>>images on the word wide web see http://www.espgame.org/)
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>~ Eelke
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>--
>> >> >> >>
>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>> >> >> >> >> >>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171
>> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>--
>> >> >> >>
>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >> >>>>Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>> >> >> >> >>>>Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171
>> >> >> >> >>>>University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>> >> >> >> >>>>Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>> games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>> games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> >>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> >>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >> >games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >> games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 2
>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:03 -0600
>> >> >> From: "d. michelle hinn" <hinn at uiuc.edu>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site
>> >> >> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>> >> >> Message-ID: <p06230992c1ccd180a166@[192.168.1.100]>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Amit!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter
>> >> >> you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm
>> >> >> afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in
>> >> >> your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I
>> >> >> should YouTube...I'll try it out!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Michelle
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel
>> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just
>> >> >> >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/.
>>His mission -
>> >> >> >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is one
>>of the best
>> >> >> >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >######
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since
>> >>Oct. (I program
>> >> >> >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add
>> >>captions/subtitles
>> >> >> >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the
>>masses caption
>> >> >> >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want
>> >>the Internet to
>> >> >> >forget anyone" type of website.
>> >> >> >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video or Quicktime
>> >> >> >URL. I have a good working version online now, excluding Internet
>> >> >> >Explorer users, you can see it here,
>> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .
>> > > >> >
>> >> >> >I would like to get some people using it, teachers, video bloggers,
>> >> >> >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are
>> >>multilingual. If
>> >> >> >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the
>> >>website on to
>> >> >> >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Some quickies about the site,
>> >> >> >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.
>> >> >> >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is
>>in the works to
>> >> >> >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.
>> >> >> >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?
>> >> >> >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.
>> >> >> >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer
>>than the video
>> >> >> >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video, you'll get hurt.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Stay warm.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Thanks!
>> >> >> >John
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >######
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >games_access mailing list
>> >> >> >games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Message: 3
>> >> >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:59:54 -0800
>> >> >> From: "Reid Kimball" <reid at rbkdesign.com>
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [games_access] Open Captions - Beta site
>> >> >> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>> >> >> <games_access at igda.org>
>> >> >> Message-ID:
>> >> >> <a6673b8d0701112159i5c516d45of422ecd306abbfc8 at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I give OpenCaptions an enthusiastic thumbs up. It's really great to
>> >> >> see someone taking action in this area. I've been really
>>worried about
>> >> >> networks like ABC and NBC putting their popular shows online, but not
>> >> >> providing captions. I expect that viewing TV programming on the
>> >> >> internet will explode in the years to come. When that happens, the
>> >> >> battle to get those programs closed captioned will happen all over
>> >> >> again. TV had been around for decades before closed captioning was
>> >> >> first introduced and mandated by law in the 70's.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I gave John suggestions to make the site community focused. If that
>> >> >> happens, I can see thousands of videos being closed captioned by a
>> >> >> community of people.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Reid
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 1/11/07, d. michelle hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> >> >> > Hi Amit!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > So great to hear from you again -- what's the latest on the chapter
>> >> >> > you are working on? Can you remind us where the forums are? I'm
>> >> >> > afraid we've all been buried by the holidays, GDC prep, etc!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This Open Captions sounds interesting -- Reid? I'd be interested in
>> >> >> > your take on this. Actually...I have miles of dissertation video I
>> >> >> > should YouTube...I'll try it out!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Michelle
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > >My friend and colleague from NYU John Schimmel
>> >>(schimmel at nyu.edu) has just
>> >> >> > >released his new project- http://www.opencaptions.com/.
>>His mission -
>> >> >> > >collaborative captioning of video on the web! This is
>>one of the best
>> >> >> > >projects I've seen in a while. In his own words:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >######
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >So I've been working on a project called Open Captions since
>> >>Oct. (I program
>> >> >> > >really slow), and it's a web site that allows you to add
>> >>captions/subtitles
>> >> >> > >to videos that already exist on the Internet - "Let the
>>masses caption
>> >> >> > >videos for their friends and relatives because we don't want
>> >>the Internet to
>> >> >> > >forget anyone" type of website.
>> >> >> > >It currently works with any Google video, YouTube video
>>or Quicktime
>> >> >> > >URL. I have a good working version online now,
>>excluding Internet
>> >> >> > >Explorer users, you can see it here,
>> >>http://www.opencaptions.com/ video .
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >I would like to get some people using it, teachers,
>>video bloggers,
>> >> >> > >diplomats, etc. As well as deaf people and those who are
>> >>multilingual. If
>> >> >> > >you have any friends who might be interested please pass the
>> >>website on to
>> >> >> > >them. And feel free to give it a try yourself.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >Some quickies about the site,
>> >> >> > >* A forum and blog are going up shortly.
>> > > >> > >* Caption translation / mechanical turk like feature is in
>> >the works to
>> >> >> > >turn existing transcriptions into subtitles.
>> >> >> > >* Yeah, the interface needs a makeover. Ideas?
>> >> >> > >* IE browser is a pain in the arse.
>> >> >> > >* Captioning is tedious and takes about 3 times longer
>>than the video
>> >> >> > >itself. Don't try to caption a Noam Chomsky video,
>>you'll get hurt.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >Stay warm.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >Thanks!
>> >> >> > >John
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >######
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> > >games_access mailing list
>> >> >> > >games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> > >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > games_access mailing list
>> >> >> > games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
> > >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> games_access mailing list
>> >> >> games_access at igda.org
>> >> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> End of games_access Digest, Vol 31, Issue 11
>> >> >> ********************************************
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>> >> >Department of Computer Science & Engineering/171
>> >> >University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>> >> >Game Quality usability|accessibility.eelke.com
>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> .......................................
>> >> these are mediocre times and people are
>> >> losing hope. it's hard for many people
>> >> to believe that there are extraordinary
>> >> things inside themselves, as well as
>> >> others. i hope you can keep an open
>> >> mind.
>> >> -- "unbreakable"
>> >> .......................................
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> games_access mailing list
>> >> games_access at igda.org
>> >> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >games_access mailing list
>> >games_access at igda.org
>> >http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>_______________________________________________
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