[games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller

Barrie Ellis barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk
Mon Jun 16 03:59:04 EDT 2008


No problem, Thomas...

A pretty exhaustive forum post here on handicapped/disabled:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbouch/F2322273?thread=3651003&skip=0&show=20

And some evidence against the definition as being linked to "cap in hand"
begging.

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/handicap.asp

Best to refer to people as people I guess (cue Depeche Mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNaZDVHmums and a big grin)...

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk




----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at pininteractive.com>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller



> is there some article / web pag ge that describes this problem with the

> Handicap terminology?

>

> would be great to have as reference

>

> /thomas

>

> On 14 jun 2008, at 21.23, Reid Kimball wrote:

>

>> I agree with Barrie and I'd like to expand the idea of "right to fun"

>> to something bigger. The right to fun is one part of a larger right to

>> participate in society. As games become more culturally relevant to a

>> society, they will help us examine and participate in the shaping of

>> who we are as people. If we neglect to include everyone in this

>> examination and participation, we won't become the kind of society we

>> ought to become.

>>

>> -Reid

>>

>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Barrie Ellis

>> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:

>>> Again - I would say that in the UK - the word Handicap is now generally

>>> tied

>>> up with a lot of negative baggage. Many believe (wrongly or rightly)

>>> that

>>> it's linked to "cap in hand" begging - others consider it an inherently

>>> negative word anyway. As Reid said - if you remove the barriers from a

>>> "disabled person" - in context - you'll just describe them as a

>>> person...

>>> That's what we're aiming at - smashing the barriers.

>>>

>>> Also - the W.H.O. is a medical based organisation. Accessible gaming to

>>> me

>>> will always be about social rights - and not about medical conditions.

>>> A

>>> gamer has these abilities - so how can they play game X,Y,Z? Am I

>>> repeating

>>> myself?! (I'll shut up after this for a bit I promise): The right to

>>> fun.

>>>

>>> Barrie

>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk

>>>

>>>

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer"

>>> <eelke.folmer at gmail.com

>>> >

>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org

>>> >

>>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 5:39 PM

>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller

>>>

>>>

>>>> Hi Thomas,

>>>>

>>>> I never really thought about the difference but your taxonomy seems

>>>> intuitive and straightforward.

>>>>

>>>> Cheers Eelke

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On 12/06/2008, Thomas Westin <thomas at pininteractive.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Hi,

>>>>>

>>>>> The World Health Organization has a definition which makes a

>>>>> difference

>>>>> between disability and handicap, where disability is related to the

>>>>> individual, while handicap is related to the environment. In other

>>>>> words,

>>>>> if

>>>>> you're in a wheel chair, you are handicapped in a building with high

>>>>> thresholds. By removing the thresholds (read: making it accessible)

>>>>> you

>>>>> remove the handicap, but you are still disabled.

>>>>>

>>>>> I think that is a good distinction

>>>>>

>>>>> Kind regards

>>>>> Thomas

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> On 11 jun 2008, at 18.59, Barrie Ellis wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Language is a contentious issue and I respect that you have a

>>>>> different

>>>>> opinion, Matthias. I just personally feel that certain phrases don't

>>>>> particularly tie up with disability rights - which is what the Game

>>>>> Accessibility movement is all about to my mind. I still feel that you

>>>>> are

>>>>> approaching this field from a Medical standpoint - rather that a

>>>>> Social

>>>>> rights stand point.

>>>>>

>>>>> Barrie

>>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> From: Matthias Troup

>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:28 PM

>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller

>>>>>

>>>>> Kestrel, Perhaps I (and others) read it as this: If these are people

>>>>> without disabilities in the offensive sense... who aren't suffering

>>>>> in

>>>>> their

>>>>> environment... what would they need help with, and why would anyone

>>>>> be

>>>>> helping? I think Eitans choice of words is fine since his cause was

>>>>> a

>>>>> constructive effort for accessibility. At least, I feel hints of

>>>>> emotion

>>>>> help make any thesis a little less dry.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> From: kestrell at panix.com

>>>>>> To: games_access at igda.org

>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:57:14 -0400

>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Regarding appropriate language, I'm not sure I see where you are

>>>>> disagreeing

>>>>>> with my original post. I used the word "disability," and the site

>>>>>> you

>>>>> linked

>>>>>> to, which the wonderful BBC online disability magazine, Ouch!, also

>>>>>> >

>>>>>> uses

>>>>> the

>>>>>> word "disability." I totally agree with the list provided in the >

>>>>>> article

>>>>> as

>>>>>> being offensive words, including the word "special."

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Granted the fifth day of ninety degree weather here in Boston is >

>>>>>> melting

>>>>> my

>>>>>> brain, but what did I miss?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Kes

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>>> From: "Barrie Ellis" <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk>

>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"

>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org

>>>>>> >

>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:54 AM

>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi Eitan,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I actually disagree with Kestrell's "people first stand point" with

>>>>>>> "people with disabilities" (although I did used to use it myself).

>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>> I've

>>>>>>> long since prefered "disabled people" linking to people being > >

>>>>>>> disabled

>>>>> by

>>>>>>> society / the inaccessibility of their environment.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Take a look through this item:

>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3708576.stm.

>>>>>>> Plus this on the Social Model and Medical Model of diability:

>>>>>>>

>>>>> http://inclusion.uwe.ac.uk/inclusionweek/articles/socmod.htm

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Barrie

>>>>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>>>> From: "Kestrell" <kestrell at panix.com>

>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >

>>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>

>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:42 PM

>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Eitan,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I seem to have missed your original post in which you posted the >

>>>>>>>>>> link,

>>>>>>>> but here are some thoughts on language and disability:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Certain words and phrases tend to really be button words, as in

>>>>>>>> they

>>>>> will

>>>>>>>> typically hit many readers' buttons, and the phrase "suffering

>>>>>>>> from"

>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> definitely one of those phrases. Often the phrase can be deleted

>>>>>>>> altogether, leaving the phrase "people with disabilities" or

>>>>>>>> "people

>>>>> with

>>>>>>>> visual impairments" or "visually-impaired gamers," etc. The

>>>>>>>> informal

>>>>> rule

>>>>>>>> is that the individuals you are discussing are "people first," as

>>>>>>>> mentioned in this online article

>>>>>>>> http://iod.unh.edu/press.html

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> and here is a link which includes links to writing about

>>>>>>>> disability,

>>>>>>>> language to use in interviewing people with disabilities, and more

>>>>>>>> resources

>>>>>>>> http://ncdj.org/links.html

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Kes

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----

>>>>>>>> From: "Eitan Glinert" <glinert at mit.edu>

>>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >>

>>>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>

>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:29 PM

>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Wow, awesome! Thanks for the feedback, I think you are the only >

>>>>>>>>>>>> person

>>>>>>>>> outside of MIT to have actually read this. Comments below.

>>>>>>>>> Eitan

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Barrie Ellis

>>>>>>>>> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> Hi Eitan,

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I've read through your thesis "The Human Controller"...

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Had these thoughts...

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Didn't like some of the language used. "Suffering from -

>>>>>>>>>> impaired

>>>>>>>>>> people -

>>>>>>>>>> handicapped". All pretty crusty old terms with negative > >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> connotations.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Point taken. Any suggestions for better terms?<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Not sure about the controller analysis in Chapter 1 - there's

>>>>>>>>>> been

>>>>>>>>>> Driving

>>>>>>>>>> controllers and light guns since the 70's for many games >

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> consoles -

>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>> are fairly natural feeling interfaces and have been popular in

>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> past.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: I guess in chapter one I'm trying to draw general strokes

>>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about

>>>>>>>>>>>> UIs, saying that they generally weren't adopted by a

>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream

>>>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I should make this more explicit, though<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Even if it is possible to remap controls it is not always >

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> advisable

>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> do

>>>>>>>>>> so. Frequently part of the fun of a game is the interface, and

>>>>> changing

>>>>>>>>>> it

>>>>>>>>>> without forethought is potentially detrimental. In the pervious

>>>>> example

>>>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>> Wii Sports tennis part of the fun is actually swinging the >

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> controller

>>>>>>>>>> as if

>>>>>>>>>> it were a racket. If this functionality were changed to pressing

>>>>>>>>>> a

>>>>>>>>>> button

>>>>>>>>>> then much of the game's charm and fun would be lost.". I'm not >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy

>>>>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>>>>> this statement personally - I'd like to see multiple-layers of

>>>>>>>>>> accessibility

>>>>>>>>>> (much like Dimitris "Parallel Universes" theory). Why can't a

>>>>>>>>>> four

>>>>>>>>>> player

>>>>>>>>>> game of Wii Sports allow player 1 to use the Wii-remote - player

>>>>>>>>>> 2

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> use a

>>>>>>>>>> standard JoyPad - player 3 to use a single button and player 4

>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use

>>>>>>>>>> an

>>>>>>>>>> adapted Wii-remote with blue-tooth stereo head-set to relay

>>>>>>>>>> personalised

>>>>>>>>>> timing sounds (think of live singers having a click track that >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only

>>>>>>>>>> they can

>>>>>>>>>> hear) in an ideal world? You mention this type of thing later as

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>> it's a

>>>>>>>>>> good thing - so I find this early statement a bit overly

>>>>>>>>>> negative.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: I agree with what you say, which is why I discuss such

>>>>>>>>>>>> themes

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter 2. I guess the reason I have that negative statement >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early

>>>>> on

>>>>>>>>>>>> is because I wanted to acknowledge the tradeoff early on, even

>>>>> before

>>>>>>>>>>>> I get to the sections on tradeoffs. I also wanted to make it >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear

>>>>>>>>>>>> that I don't feel accessibility is a magic bullet, even if it

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> almost always applicable.<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Games have evolved tremendously over the past few decades, as

>>>>>>>>>> advancements

>>>>>>>>>> in technology have led to amazingly realistic and engaging >

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> offerings,

>>>>>>>>>> while

>>>>>>>>>> shifts in player demographics indicate the widespread popularity

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>> video

>>>>>>>>>> games. Despite these changes many different disabled groups are

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still

>>>>>>>>>> unable

>>>>>>>>>> to play most titles due to inaccessible UIs.." - Would argue

>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>> too.

>>>>>>>>>> I'd

>>>>>>>>>> agree that most Blind gamers would be in that boat (those with >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very

>>>>>>>>>> little

>>>>>>>>>> usable sight) - but a better statement might have been "many

>>>>> different

>>>>>>>>>> disabled groups are faced with deeply frustrating barriers with

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many

>>>>>>>>>> main-stream games". I know Deaf gamers might struggle at certain

>>>>> points

>>>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>> certain games - and gamers using a single button frequently have

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> rely

>>>>>>>>>> upon a friend/helper to take on extra controls and so on - but >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they

>>>>> can

>>>>>>>>>> still play.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Good suggestion, thanks! I might make a change to the >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument

>>>>> on

>>>>>>>>>>>> the online version.<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Chaper 2

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> "Game controls should be as simple as possible, but no

>>>>>>>>>> simpler." -

>>>>> Not

>>>>>>>>>> really sure what you're saying here.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Simplicity is good, but you don't want to go overboard.

>>>>>>>>>>>> You

>>>>> don't

>>>>>>>>>>>> want to cut out critical game elements or features in the name

>>>>>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a

>>>>>>>>>>>> "cleaner" UI. Maybe that's not clear? <<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> 2.5 "a rhythm title like Guitar Hero which focuses on music will

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not

>>>>>>>>>> work

>>>>>>>>>> for the hearing impaired, and it is probably not possible to

>>>>>>>>>> make

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an

>>>>>>>>>> accessible version." - I don't agree with this. Deaf gamers as a

>>>>> whole

>>>>>>>>>> covers a very broad range of hearing ability. There will be many

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaf

>>>>>>>>>> gamers

>>>>>>>>>> perfectly able to play Guitar Hero. Even those unable to hear at

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all

>>>>>>>>>> might

>>>>>>>>>> enjoy such a game - did you see Deaf Gamers 8.5/10 review score:

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.deafgamers.com/07reviews_a/gh3_x360.html

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Wow, I flubbed this one. I'm going to have to change the

>>>>> language

>>>>>>>>>>>> on this. Good catch, thanks!<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> But aside from this, I frequently found myself in full agreement

>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> majority of your thesis - and did enjoy reading it. Thanks for >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making

>>>>>>>>>> it

>>>>>>>>>> publicly available.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, thanks so much!<<<

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Barrie

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eitan Glinert" > >>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <glinert at mit.edu>

>>>>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"

>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>

>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:50 PM

>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] The Human Controller

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Good news, everyone! In a surprise twist, I'm graduating! I

>>>>>>>>>>> know

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a

>>>>> lot

>>>>>>>>>>> of you are interested in my thesis, so you can check it out at

>>>>>>>>>>> web.mit.edu/glinert/www/thesis . I'm happy to answer questions

>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about

>>>>>>>>>>> it, and I welcome feedback (both positive and negative).

>>>>>>>>>>> Special

>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to Dimitris, Eelke, Michelle, and Reid for all their

>>>>>>>>>>> help

>>>>>>>>>>> answering my questions over the months.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> In case you're not sure whether it is worth reading, here's

>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>> more

>>>>>>>>>>> info:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> TITLE: The Human Controller: Usability and Accessibility in

>>>>>>>>>>> Video

>>>>> Game

>>>>>>>>>>> Interfaces

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> ABSTRACT:

>>>>>>>>>>> Despite the advances in user interfaces and the new gaming >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genres,

>>>>> not

>>>>>>>>>>> all people can play all games - disabled people are frequently

>>>>>>>>>>> excluded from game play experiences. On the one hand this adds

>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> list of discriminations disabled people face in our society, >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while

>>>>> on

>>>>>>>>>>> the other hand actively including them potentially results in >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games

>>>>>>>>>>> that are better for everyone. The largest hurdle to involvement

>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> user interface, or how a player interacts with the game. >

>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Analyzing

>>>>>>>>>>> usability and adhering to accessibility design principles makes

>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>> both possible and practical to develop fun and engaging game

>>>>>>>>>>> user

>>>>>>>>>>> interfaces that a broader range of the population can play. To

>>>>>>>>>>> demonstrate these principles we created AudiOdyssey, a PC

>>>>>>>>>>> rhythm

>>>>> game

>>>>>>>>>>> that is accessible to both sighted and non-sighted audiences.

>>>>>>>>>>> By

>>>>>>>>>>> following accessibility guidelines we incorporated a novel

>>>>> combination

>>>>>>>>>>> of features resulting in a similar play experience for both >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups.

>>>>>>>>>>> Testing AudiOdyssey yielded useful insights into which

>>>>>>>>>>> interface

>>>>>>>>>>> elements work and which don't work for all users. Finally a

>>>>>>>>>>> case

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> made for considering accessibility when designing future

>>>>>>>>>>> versions

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>> gaming user interfaces, and speculative scenarios are presented

>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>> what such interfaces might look like.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Eitan

>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>>>>

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>>

>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>

>>>>> ________________________________

>>>>> Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. Search

>>>>> Now!

>>>>>

>>>>> ________________________________

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor

>>>> Department of CS&E/171

>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557

>>>> Game interaction design www.eelke.com

>>>>

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> games_access mailing list

>>>> games_access at igda.org

>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> games_access mailing list

>>> games_access at igda.org

>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> games_access mailing list

>> games_access at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access

>

> _______________________________________________

> games_access mailing list

> games_access at igda.org

> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access





More information about the games_access mailing list