[Techtoolslist] 9100FT Programmer’s Keyboard

Sat Jun 30 16:00:27 EDT 2018

On June 30, 2018 10:19:24 AM PDT, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist at flippers.com> wrote:
>This is very interesting stuff!!!
>
>Was the rom ever dumped from the fluke keyboard? Would be interesting
>to break down the source code and see how it is programmed
>
>If it was dumped any chance of getting a copy??
>
>Many thanks
>Andrew
>
>> On 11 Oct 2017, at 1:05 am, Ian Eure <ian at retrospec.tv> wrote:
>> 
>> I got the KB101 today.  The layout is a bit different, but it uses
>the
>> same switches, custom switch controller, 8031, and has a socketed
>EPROM
>> with the code on it.
>> 
>> I’m going to compare more closely to the Fluke board, I’m still
>hoping
>> that swapping the EPROM over gets me most of the way there.
>> 
>> Ian Eure writes:
>> 
>>> Correct.  805x has onboard EEPROM, 803x uses a discrete ROM.  The
>2764 EPROM on the Fluke board will fit into the 8052’s onboard EEPROM,
>but not the 8051’s.
>>> 
>>> My weekend is full, but I’m going to see about getting a dump of
>this EPROM soon.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 2:15 PM, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051.
>>>> The program should be entirely in that EPROM.
>>>> 
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> William Stillwell
>>>>> 
>>>>> Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
>>>>> 
>>>>> Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3
>organization
>>>>> 
>>>>> Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play
>Florida
>>>>> Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
>>>>> 
>>>>> Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian at retrospec.tv>
>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Could be.  If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump
>of the
>>>>>> EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052,
>and
>>>>>> swapping that in.  That should produce the correct ASCII output. 
>Not sure
>>>>>> about the speed.  I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that
>might be
>>>>>> part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM
>code is
>>>>>> running.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <
>>>>>> techtoolslist at flippers.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no
>separate rom,
>>>>>> roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things
>other than
>>>>>> pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys
>will emit
>>>>>> different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also
>need to be
>>>>>> slowed down a lot!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent
>from my
>>>>>> iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian at retrospec.tv> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Great info, thanks for sharing.  I just bought a KB101 I found
>on
>>>>>> eBay.  When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted.  Sure
>would be
>>>>>> great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke
>model.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can someone open the 9100A keyboard?  I’d like to see what’s in
>those,
>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <
>>>>>> techtoolslist at flippers.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and
>upload the
>>>>>> pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for
>>>>>> information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any
>info now
>>>>>> earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the
>>>>>> detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am
>also looking
>>>>>> into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends
>on them,
>>>>>> it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip
>to change
>>>>>> the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done
>the fluke
>>>>>> video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to
>look into it
>>>>>> all again!
>>>>>>>>> Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very
>>>>>> expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print
>anything you
>>>>>> want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101
>keyboards can
>>>>>> be found!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The project goes on!!!!!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian at retrospec.tv>
>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson
><jrr at flippers.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100.
> I don’t
>>>>>>>>>>>> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different
>versions
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the keyboard.  The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier
>model,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which meant that I almost let this one slip away.  It was
>on eBay,
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>> old stock, for $36 shipped!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> All the info is in the manuals, if you look.  I had always
>wondered
>>>>>>>>>>>> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual
>didn’t
>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen.  It’s because I read
>scans of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later
>revision
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the keyboard.  I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet
>it shows
>>>>>>>>>>>> the earlier keyboard layout.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The various 9100 service manuals list different part
>numbers:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p.
>5-53
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lists p/n 5-64995-131.  This seems to be the more common
>version of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the keyboard.  It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the
>far right,
>>>>>>>>>>>> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png
>>>>>>>>>>> Broken link.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here’s what I was trying to share:
>http://www.dragonslairfans.
>>>>>> com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe
>it uses
>>>>>> normal switches and could be used to reproduce one.
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I haven't dumped it, due to not having desolderered it.  While I have a good record getting parts of boards, I want to at least have a backup 9100 keyboard before I risk breaking the one I have.