[casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars

Thu Aug 17 14:45:10 EDT 2006

There is a difference between something being an utter rip off - i.e. 
using the same looking art [characters are much more protectable in law] 
- and someone doing a game clone. I agree 100% with Juan on 
originality/lack of. I have plenty of time for clones as long as they 
are good!

I can write asteroids with different artwork, but I can only use 
essentially identical artwork if I have the asteroids license. Having 
produced asteroids titles on mobile this is something we have experience 
of, and I know how Atari liked to handle the non-official clones (i.e. 
not ours/iFone's).

At first I thought Bizarre were going off on one, but - having not 
playing the relevant title I must admit - it sounds like this person 
really is copying the game. There is a difference between copying and 
cloning, and altho Bizarre's title isn't on PC, it could still affect 
sales in some small way.

Also, don't blame Bizarre for a missed business opportunity. Oh that 
life was so simple! Just doesn't work like that, as much as we all wish 
it did.

Saying that, I'm not sure that Bizarre's posting entirely did them 
justice. We must differentiate between clone and copy, they are a little 
different. Clone is actually hard to define - are all TPS's Doom clones, 
know what I mean?

Juan Gril wrote:
>
> Thanks for you comments Ben. Just let me state this: I disagree with 
> you, Tom and everybody else who has an issue with cloning. 
> Historically there has never been a case in any form of media where 
> the **exact** clone (more properly called by you as "parasite") of an 
> intellectual piece of property have been as commercially succesful as 
> the original one; not even partially successful. And what most people 
> call clones are innovations over existing formulas, and this is what 
> humans have been doing in **all** fields of thought since man have 
> learned to express himself.
>
>  
>
> The issue of the Geometry Wars "parasites" (not clones) can be fixed 
> in a week if Bizarre Creations and Microsoft would release Geometry 
> Wars for PC. It's their fault for missing the business opportunity.
>
>  
>
> And I have another issue with people who are upset about cloning and 
> post letters on their web sites as martyrs: none of them are able to 
> say "all the games I have created in my entire life are **truly** 
> original".
>
>  
>
> But then again, we are all entitled to our opinions in this matter. 
> Cheers,
>
>  
>
> Juan
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Ben Lewis
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:58 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* [casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars
>
>  
>
> *From:* Ben Lewis
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:53 PM
> *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> *Subject:* [casual_games] Cloning: Geometry Wars vs. GridWars
>
>  
>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> We've all been through this discussion before ("Clones are 
> deplorable!" vs. "Hey, the market clearly wants them"), but Andy's 
> right -- the issue here is Geometry Wars: Evolved vs. GridWars. After 
> playing GridWars for less than 10 seconds, anyone will realize why 
> Bizarre Creations is a bit upset. This isn't cloning, it's parasitism 
> (see Allen Varney's "Attack of the Parasites" 
> <http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/34/3> article). Even worse, 
> actually!
>
>  
>
> http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/grid/gw2.jpg
>
>  
>
> The above picture is /not/ Geometry Wars, but Mark Incitti's GridWars. 
> I would say I've never seen a more blatant copying of IP in my life, 
> but the author has made pixel-perfect copies of other games 
> <http://www.incitti.com/Blitz/> in Blitzmax and made them available 
> online for free. Not a big deal normally, except that Geometry Wars: 
> Evolved is only available on the Xbox 360 and this game is 
> excruciatingly similar (although it adds some new weapons). Bizarre 
> accordingly argues this could hurt sales, and it's time to take 
> GridWars off the web. Simple enough.
>
>  
>
> Tom's absolutely right about infringing on IP to this degree. Juan, I 
> don't think Bizarre speaking out against other games in the 
> "Robotron"-type genre, but rather something that makes a point to copy 
> other IP pixel-for-pixel. Anyone can make their own third-person 
> shooter; when your protagonist is a busty, treasure-seeking babe named 
> "Lava Kroft," you have a problem 
> <http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines2809.html>.
>
>  
>
> Ben Lewis
>
> Yatec Games
>
> Marketing and Sales
>
> (225)274-1550
>
> blewis at yatecgames.com <mailto:blewis at yatecgames.com>
> http://www.yatecgames.com <http://www.yatecgames.com/>
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Kevin Richardson [mailto:krichardson at iwin.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:12 PM
> *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> *Subject:* RE: [casual_games] It's about time!
>
>  
>
> Great observation. Thanks for broadening this discussion.
>
>  
>
> Kevin Richardson
>
> www.iwn.com <http://www.iwn.com>
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Juan Gril
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:40 AM
> *To:* 'IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List'
> *Subject:* RE: [casual_games] It's about time!
>
> Thomas said:
>
> /"//It's about time that indies who create original IP stand up to the 
> blatant copycat BS that seems to be so acceptable in the casual market 
> place."/
>
>  
>
> Interesting. So what's the percentage of original titles shown at the 
> E3 Expo this year?
>
>  
>
> What's the percentage of truly original TV shows for this fall?
>
>  
>
> What's the percentage of unique bands with a new type of music 
> introduced in the American Top 40 this year?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
>  
>
> Juan
>
>  
>
> PS: From Wikipedia's Bizarre Creations entry:
>
> "In 2006 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_in_video_gaming>, the 
> studio announced a departure from their usual racing genre 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_game_genres#Racing>. 
> /The Club <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Club>/ (working title) is 
> a *third person shooter*, announced on May 6 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_6>, 2006 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006>."
>
>  
>
> How new and original is "third person shooter"?
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* casual_games-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Thomas H. Buscaglia
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:17 AM
> *To:* IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List
> *Subject:* [casual_games] It's about time!
>
>  
>
> Way to go Bizzare for enforcing your IP rights against clones of their 
> great game.  It's about time that indies who create original IP stand 
> up to the blatant copycat BS that seems to be so acceptable in the 
> casual market place. These is a big difference between being inspired 
> and influenced by a game and simply stealing it.  And anyone who says 
> there is not is just diluting themselves.  This epidemic can and 
> should be stopped. 
>
> I hope that their show of some real backbone catches on.  It is long 
> over due!
>
> Tom B
>
>
> At 10:27 AM 8/17/2006, you wrote:
>
> There is a statement over at Bizarre Creations' website about why they 
> are taking action against developers who are cloning Geometry Wars.  
> They make many valid points about gameplay and intellectual property.
>
> http://www.bizarrecreations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=219347
>
>
> -- 
> andy makely
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-- 

Alex Amsel
Tuna Technologies Ltd (Sheffield, UK)
Cross Platform Game Development
Tel: +44 (0)114 266 2211  Mob: +44(0)7771 524 632

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